PDA

View Full Version : Var



H18 SFR
17-02-2020, 10:02 PM
I don't think I'd want to keep going every week if VAR arrives in Scotland.

I've stopped watching the EPL (I still watch the EFL).

I watched a cracking movie on Netflix tonight then put on the Chelsea game to see the VAR disallow Giroud's goal.

I simply can't take to it. I listen to 5 live and Talksport a lot and feel my views are aligned with the majority of everyday fans who contribute to discussion around the subject.

I think I feel so crap about the thought of it in Scotland that I would stop going.

BILLYHIBS
17-02-2020, 10:05 PM
I don't think I'd want to keep going every week if VAR arrives in Scotland.

I've stopped watching the EPL (I still watch the EFL).

I watched a cracking movie on Netflix tonight then put on the Chelsea game to see the VAR disallow Giroud's goal.

I simply can't take to it. I listen to 5 live and Talksport a lot and feel my views are aligned with the majority of everyday fans who contribute to discussion around the subject.

I think I feel so crap about the thought of it in Scotland that I would stop going.
What movie did you watch?

Always on the look out for recommendations :greengrin

1 8 7 5
17-02-2020, 10:06 PM
I don't think I'd want to keep going every week if VAR arrives in Scotland.

I've stopped watching the EPL (I still watch the EFL).

I watched a cracking movie on Netflix tonight then put on the Chelsea game to see the VAR disallow Giroud's goal.

I simply can't take to it. I listen to 5 live and Talksport a lot and feel my views are aligned with the majority of everyday fans who contribute to discussion around the subject.

I think I feel so crap about the thought of it in Scotland that I would stop going.

They disallowed girouds goal because he was off side! If you are offside you are offside. Offcourse, the penalty spurs got against aston villa yesterday was a farce, so its obviously not perfect.

But offside is offside!

Oh aye, chelsea fans signing about it not being football anymore is a hoot! Dry yer eyes ya bunch of glory hunting twats!

H18 SFR
17-02-2020, 10:07 PM
What movie did you watch?

Always on the look out for recommendations :greengrin

Hostiles (2017) with Christian Bale.

Robbo6-2
17-02-2020, 10:09 PM
I don't think I'd want to keep going every week if VAR arrives in Scotland.

I've stopped watching the EPL (I still watch the EFL).

I watched a cracking movie on Netflix tonight then put on the Chelsea game to see the VAR disallow Giroud's goal.

I simply can't take to it. I listen to 5 live and Talksport a lot and feel my views are aligned with the majority of everyday fans who contribute to discussion around the subject.

I think I feel so crap about the thought of it in Scotland that I would stop going.

Totally agree

H18 SFR
17-02-2020, 10:10 PM
They disallowed girouds goal because he was off side! If you are offside you are offside. Offcourse, the penalty spurs got against aston villa yesterday was a farce, so its obviously not perfect.

But offside is offside!

Oh aye, chelsea fans signing about it not being football anymore is a hoot! Dry yer eyes ya bunch of glory hunting twats!

Fair play, I'm presuming you're keen on it. Simply not for me.

The important thing is there will always be football played that doesn't have it somewhere.

Since452
17-02-2020, 10:10 PM
I'd be gutted if it came in up here

Sir David Gray
17-02-2020, 10:10 PM
I don't think I'd want to keep going every week if VAR arrives in Scotland.

I've stopped watching the EPL (I still watch the EFL).

I watched a cracking movie on Netflix tonight then put on the Chelsea game to see the VAR disallow Giroud's goal.

I simply can't take to it. I listen to 5 live and Talksport a lot and feel my views are aligned with the majority of everyday fans who contribute to discussion around the subject.

I think I feel so crap about the thought of it in Scotland that I would stop going.

Giroud was offside.

BILLYHIBS
17-02-2020, 10:12 PM
Hostiles (2017) with Christian Bale.

Seen it good movie

You are correct VAR sux even spoiling the gambling you think you are in then the big let down :greengrin

Spoiling everything man!

Cannae even celebrate a goal

1 8 7 5
17-02-2020, 10:15 PM
Fair play, I'm presuming you're keen on it. Simply not for me.

The important thing is there will always be football played that doesn't have it somewhere.

Not really keen on it at all. In principle it is sound, they just seem to be making a bit of a pigs ear of it with some decisions.

The way every single error that officials have made in the past has been scrutinised and disected by Sky pundits et al for the last 30 years has brought this about imo, and now half the so called expects hate it. Maist of them professed to wanting it!

The genie is oot the bottle!

H18 SFR
17-02-2020, 10:15 PM
Giroud was offside.

Yeah he was at least 10mm off. Correct decision.

Not for me though.

SChibs
17-02-2020, 10:23 PM
Offside was brought in to stop goal hanging not to prevent someone who's an inch in front of the defender scoring. If they cant decide just by looking at it on the screen then give the benefit to the attacker. If you have to draw lines and someone's heel or hip if offside by millimetres let it go.

BILLYHIBS
17-02-2020, 10:26 PM
Offside was brought in to stop goal hanging not to prevent someone who's an inch in front of the defender scoring. If they cant decide just by looking at it on the screen then give the benefit to the attacker. If you have to draw lines and someone's heel or hip if offside by millimetres let it go.

Agree with you but as Gary Neville said if you are off you are off!


Think he is a Man Utd fan? :greengrin

Vault Boy
17-02-2020, 10:29 PM
I just want goal line technology and can't really believe we haven't already implemented it. Whilst it is a bespoke system, it's no longer bleeding edge tech so surely must be cheaper than it was four or five years ago.

1 8 7 5
17-02-2020, 10:32 PM
I just want goal line technology and can't really believe we haven't already implemented it. Whilst it is a bespoke system, it's no longer bleeding edge tech so surely must be cheaper than it was four or five years ago.

totally agree!

Joe6-2
17-02-2020, 10:33 PM
Agree with you but as Gary Neville said if you are off you are off!


Think he is a Man Utd fan? :greengrin

And a twat

HoboHarry
17-02-2020, 10:35 PM
They disallowed girouds goal because he was off side! If you are offside you are offside. Offcourse, the penalty spurs got against aston villa yesterday was a farce, so its obviously not perfect.

But offside is offside!

Oh aye, chelsea fans signing about it not being football anymore is a hoot! Dry yer eyes ya bunch of glory hunting twats!
The offside wasn't the issue in the game today, it was the Maguire non-sending off and the disallowing of the goal that was disallowed for a push. VAR input for both decisions is impossible to justify ...

Joe6-2
17-02-2020, 10:35 PM
The offside wasn't the issue in the game today, it was the Maguire non-sending off and the disallowing of the goal that was disallowed for a push. VAR input for both decisions is impossible to justify ...

This

Sammy7nil
17-02-2020, 10:41 PM
I don't think I'd want to keep going every week if VAR arrives in Scotland.

I've stopped watching the EPL (I still watch the EFL).

I watched a cracking movie on Netflix tonight then put on the Chelsea game to see the VAR disallow Giroud's goal.

I simply can't take to it. I listen to 5 live and Talksport a lot and feel my views are aligned with the majority of everyday fans who contribute to discussion around the subject.

I think I feel so crap about the thought of it in Scotland that I would stop going.

Talksport is dire one presenter will say black the other will say white and create a false debate just terrible.

Had to stop listening years ago maybe it has improved.

1 8 7 5
17-02-2020, 10:44 PM
The offside wasn't the issue in the game today, it was the Maguire non-sending off and the disallowing of the goal that was disallowed for a push. VAR input for both decisions is impossible to justify ...

yes, thats why i said in my reply to the OP that VAR is certainly not perfect.(spurs pen yesterday was nonsense)

However, I disagree that the fact the Man Ure player wasnt red carded (should have been), doesnt mean that Chelsea should be given a goal after their captain (who was a twat all game) shoved the young Man Ure laddie (2 handed) to the ground, which enabled his teamate to "score".

Scottie
17-02-2020, 10:44 PM
Man Utd haters out tonight I see :faf:

H18 SFR
17-02-2020, 10:46 PM
Talksport is dire one presenter will say black the other will say white and create a false debate just terrible.

Had to stop listening years ago maybe it has improved.

Admittedly I tend to only listen on the way home from midweek games as I'm 2 hours away. It's still be same format, it's the callers I'm more into than the numpty presenters.

HoboHarry
17-02-2020, 10:47 PM
Man Utd haters out tonight I see :faf:

Not me. No allegiance to either of today's teams.

HoboHarry
17-02-2020, 10:49 PM
yes, thats why i said in my reply to the OP that VAR is certainly not perfect.(spurs pen yesterday was nonsense)

However, I disagree that the fact the Man Ure player wasnt red carded (should have been), doesnt mean that Chelsea should be given a goal after their captain (who was a twat all game) shoved the young Man Ure laddie (2 handed) to the ground, which enabled his teamate to "score".
Azpilacuta (or however it's spelt) was pushed by Fred. Had a goal not been scored there would have been a decent shout for a penalty.

Jones28
17-02-2020, 10:51 PM
They disallowed girouds goal because he was off side! If you are offside you are offside. Offcourse, the penalty spurs got against aston villa yesterday was a farce, so its obviously not perfect.

But offside is offside!

Oh aye, chelsea fans signing about it not being football anymore is a hoot! Dry yer eyes ya bunch of glory hunting twats!

Why was the penalty a farce?

I thought VAR got it spot on, the defender only played the ball when it was hit off him and took the man.

1 8 7 5
17-02-2020, 10:56 PM
Not me. No allegiance to either of today's teams.

Me too.


Why was the penalty a farce?

I thought VAR got it spot on, the defender only played the ball when it was hit off him and took the man.

If that had been a corner/goal kick which the whole ground, players and referee thought it was (sorry cant remember if it was a bye or corner), noone would have batted an eyelid. Calling that as a foul shows the poorer side of VAR. Contentious as ****! ... whereas offside is offside and violent conduct is violent conduct.:wink:

murray26
17-02-2020, 10:57 PM
Ditch offside end of problem

1 8 7 5
17-02-2020, 10:59 PM
Azpilacuta (or however it's spelt) was pushed by Fred. Had a goal not been scored there would have been a decent shout for a penalty.

Sorry, missed this post.... I think it would have been as soft as Tottenhams yesterday. I dont think they were the same... one is a blatant 2 handed push!

Not defending Man Ure in this thread btw... Toon! Toon!

RyeSloan
17-02-2020, 11:15 PM
Me too.



If that had been a corner/goal kick which the whole ground, players and referee thought it was (sorry cant remember if it was a bye or corner), noone would have batted an eyelid. Calling that as a foul shows the poorer side of VAR. Contentious as ****! ... whereas offside is offside and violent conduct is violent conduct.:wink:

Must admit I’m not getting the ire about the Spurs penalty either.

So what if most people thought it was a goal kick, the replay showed the defender going through the Spurs player and 100% fouling him. It was a penalty all day long and exactly why VAR has been introduced as the ref got it wrong.

There is plenty to highlight where VAR can improve or is causing more confusion but for me this was a perfect example of where it identified a clear foul and resulted in the correct decision being made.

Hibbyradge
17-02-2020, 11:36 PM
They disallowed girouds goal because he was off side! If you are offside you are offside. Offcourse, the penalty spurs got against aston villa yesterday was a farce, so its obviously not perfect.

But offside is offside!

Oh aye, chelsea fans signing about it not being football anymore is a hoot! Dry yer eyes ya bunch of glory hunting twats!

Spurs penalty was right. I was there and I thought it was a corner but seeing it again it was a foul.

Hibbyradge
17-02-2020, 11:46 PM
The offside wasn't the issue in the game today, it was the Maguire non-sending off and the disallowing of the goal that was disallowed for a push. VAR input for both decisions is impossible to justify ...

Maguire decision was strange.

The push and the offside were correct.

Hibbyradge
17-02-2020, 11:48 PM
Must admit I’m not getting the ire about the Spurs penalty either.

So what if most people thought it was a goal kick, the replay showed the defender going through the Spurs player and 100% fouling him. It was a penalty all day long and exactly why VAR has been introduced as the ref got it wrong.

There is plenty to highlight where VAR can improve or is causing more confusion but for me this was a perfect example of where it identified a clear foul and resulted in the correct decision being made.

I agree.

And I wanted Villa to get something from the game.

HoboHarry
17-02-2020, 11:49 PM
Maguire decision was strange.

The push and the offside were correct.

Disagree about the push. Fred pushed the Chelsea defender into Williams

Hibbyradge
17-02-2020, 11:58 PM
Disagree about the push. Fred pushed the Chelsea defender into Williams

So the goal should have been disallowed for a penalty?

The Chelsea boy shoved Williams to win the flick on. Fred didn't gain an advantage.

HoboHarry
18-02-2020, 12:08 AM
So the goal should have been disallowed for a penalty?

The Chelsea boy shoved Williams to win the flick on. Fred didn't gain an advantage.

Not sure why a goal would be disallowed to award a penalty but Fred absolutely gained an advantage. He pushed the Chelsea player who in turn pushed Williams and the goal was disallowed. Fred will watch that back tonight and be quite pleased with himself.

Hibbyradge
18-02-2020, 12:16 AM
Not sure why a goal would be disallowed to award a penalty but Fred absolutely gained an advantage. He pushed the Chelsea player who in turn pushed Williams and the goal was disallowed. Fred will watch that back tonight and be quite pleased with himself.

Fred hardly touched him and certainly didn't cause the push on Williams, but that's my view and we've just seen it differently.

Folk were complaining that VAR would do away with talking points. Not a chance.

JackHibs
18-02-2020, 12:57 AM
What about, for offside decisions, if its going by such small margins like Giroud's toe being off. It should only be off if you score with that part of your body?

He scored with his head so does his toe being a mm off matter?

Not sure if thats a stupid suggestion..

Hibbyradge
18-02-2020, 01:03 AM
What about, for offside decisions, if its going by such small margins like Giroud's toe being off. It should only be off if you score with that part of your body?

He scored with his head so does his toe being a mm off matter?

Not sure if thats a stupid suggestion..

I understand your idea, but I think that would just complicate it even more.

If you're offside, you're offside.

The Baldmans Comb
18-02-2020, 01:59 AM
If VAR came to Scotland then we are don't need to adopt the English interpretation.

We are allowed to think for ourselves and choose between English VAR, German VAR or Spanish VAR etc etc or interpret the use of VAR in any way we deem suitable for our game.

The German model of VAR seems to work best of all with the shortest time period and a better interpretation of what is and what is not covered by VAR.

Just because English football and English pundits aren't comfortable with VAR doesn't negate the whole process.

Hibeesmad
18-02-2020, 02:31 AM
Any decision that goes against Chelsea is good enough for me.

GibbytheHibby2
18-02-2020, 05:45 AM
If VAR came to Scotland then we are don't need to adopt the English interpretation.

We are allowed to think for ourselves and choose between English VAR, German VAR or Spanish VAR etc etc or interpret the use of VAR in any way we deem suitable for our game.

The German model of VAR seems to work best of all with the shortest time period and a better interpretation of what is and what is not covered by VAR.

Just because English football and English pundits aren't comfortable with VAR doesn't negate the whole process.

Spot on. VAR isn’t the problem. It’s the guy who’s behind the screen delaying things. If it’s not an obvious error by the ref then move on.

houstonhibbee
18-02-2020, 06:12 AM
Spot on. VAR isn’t the problem. It’s the guy who’s behind the screen delaying things. If it’s not an obvious error by the ref then move on.
The spurs penalty took forever to decide
i think maybe in the arsenal game a potential handball also took ages but seemed clear cut that it wasnt
what happens if the other team score a goal while they’re trying to decide?
it should be time limited
playing on for 2 or 3 minutes then calling it back is a farce

The Baldmans Comb
18-02-2020, 07:04 AM
Spot on. VAR isn’t the problem. It’s the guy who’s behind the screen delaying things. If it’s not an obvious error by the ref then move on.

Your point is exactly right as is the subsequent point by Houston Hibee and highlights the pickle English people seem to have got into as they are in effect trying to VAR every nuance of the entire match.

If VAR came to Scotland then the Scottish football authorities can pick the best aspects of VAR and disregard what is not working.

Sky Sports criticisms and the English VAR model doesn't need to implemented in Scotland.

We can chose our own path if we so wish.

danhibees1875
18-02-2020, 07:17 AM
I understand your idea, but I think that would just complicate it even more.

If you're offside, you're offside.

True, but given the speed players travel at and the relative frame rate of the cameras I think there's a margin of error to be considered of around 20cm (obviously they aren't always travelling that fast).

At which point; if VAR says you were marginally offside, you maybe weren't.

I'd be curious to see how it develops over a couple of years. I think the main fear with VAR is that the mindset starts to creep in that seeing a goal being scored is no longer assumed that it was definitely a goal.

Diclonius
18-02-2020, 07:36 AM
If it's introduced in Scotland then it's just an added layer of protection for the OF. If FIFA don't review the decisions we make then they can do anything they want.

Carheenlea
18-02-2020, 07:54 AM
If two players are level from a linesman’s eye then it’s surely onside. Forensically examining footage to find a toe a fraction offside is not sport. It’s like they are trying their hardest to find ways to disallow goals and drain the passion and spontaneity out of the game.

blackpoolhibs
18-02-2020, 08:00 AM
If two players are level from a linesman’s eye then it’s surely onside. Forensically examining footage to find a toe a fraction offside is not sport. It’s like they are trying their hardest to find ways to disallow goals and drain the passion and spontaneity out of the game.

:agree: Its draining the last bit of enjoyment out of every game that has VAR in my opinion. I watched last nights game on my mac, and watched tv at the same time.

I'd never have done that in the past, but my enjoyment is waning fast under this new bull****.

Jones28
18-02-2020, 08:06 AM
Me too.



If that had been a corner/goal kick which the whole ground, players and referee thought it was (sorry cant remember if it was a bye or corner), noone would have batted an eyelid. Calling that as a foul shows the poorer side of VAR. Contentious as ****! ... whereas offside is offside and violent conduct is violent conduct.:wink:

But then you have the analysis pour over it in the studio after the game and say it should have been a penalty, if we had VAR it would have been seen as such, we need to help the referees out blah blah blah.

Personally I was getting so bored with refs being blamed for every little thing when there are four sets of eyes watching something that can be analysed to the very finest detail in the studios. It made sense to utilise the technology.

AL-Qaholik
18-02-2020, 08:20 AM
IMO it just needs a common-sense overhaul.
Offside is offside - VAR should check that automatically.
For everything else, it just needs a challenge system like practically every other sport with video/Hawkeye technology.
3 challenges per game with an additional one in extra time.
If you’re wrong, you lose a challenge.
Seems a pretty simple fix to me.

Alan62
18-02-2020, 05:25 PM
Let me begin by saying I HATE VAR.

Why? Well, VAR only exists because it was felt there was a need to correct wrong decisions. The thinking goes that by using an assortment of video technologies (and, apparently, some fancy pants geometry) key moments in games that are missed by the referee can be reassessed and definitively ruled either to support or overturn the referee's original decision.

So far, so good.

It's like there's an imagined metaphysical match that can be rewound in all its nuances to be checked, verified and confirmed with an absolutely irrefutable conclusion delivered for the good of the game.

In reality, it's horse****. What they actually have (regardless of whether it's in England, Spain, Germany or The Republic of Vanuatu) is another referee and a collection of video feeds. While the other referee can look at the incident from numerous angles and can slow it down or speed it up, zoom in, zoom out, do the hokey-cokey and turn around, clearly he can still only offer his interpretation of what happened. In other words, one opinion is substituted for another opinion - although, I realise that the second opinion is based on more extensive evidence.

What about offside? Like Brexit is Brexit, so offside is offside. This is absolutely true. Offside depends on two definitive factors: the position of the attacker relative to the last defender and the precise moment that the pass is made. If the attacker can be offside by a couple of millimetres, then the technology has to be able to accurately pinpoint the forward pass to within the timeframe it takes the attacker to move less than a couple of millimetres. This raises a huge philosophical problem: when does the forward pass start? In any forward pass, there is a timeframe that goes from no contact with the ball to contact to no contact again. Does it become a pass in the third phase when there's no contact? Or is it when the ball first connects with the passer? Or is it somewhere in between?

Also, to put all of this in context, at his peak, Christiano Ronaldo could run at 33.6km/hr. That's 9.3333 metres per second. Yes, that's 9,333 of those millimetres PER SECOND. Offside is undoubtedly offside but nobody has invented a technology that can accurately measure every offside.

If VAR's only contribution to the game was a modest improvement in the accuracy of decision making, you'd maybe be inclined to endorse it. But in practice, VAR comes with a whole bunch of consequences - none of which seem attractive to my mind.

One, it's expensive. Lots of technology, lots of highly-qualified staff time.

Two, it's exclusive. It can only be applied in leagues that are awash with cash.

Three, it takes up match time and kills game momentum.

Four, it's frustrating for spectators in the ground who don't see the video assistants going through their decision-making process.

Five, it creates as much controversy as there was in the first place.

Conclusion: It's a waste of time and money and it needs to be scrapped before the game is ruined forever.

Hibbyradge
18-02-2020, 05:31 PM
True, but given the speed players travel at and the relative frame rate of the cameras I think there's a margin of error to be considered of around 20cm (obviously they aren't always travelling that fast).

At which point; if VAR says you were marginally offside, you maybe weren't.

I'd be curious to see how it develops over a couple of years. I think the main fear with VAR is that the mindset starts to creep in that seeing a goal being scored is no longer assumed that it was definitely a goal.

That would still require a measurement and s line being drawn somewhere so the same issue would arise.

Linesmen often get it wrong. VAR is more accurate.

Hibbyradge
18-02-2020, 05:52 PM
John Macdonald dived in the box to win a penalty for Rangers many years ago and that lost us the game. TV footage showed that there was clear air between him and Benny Brazil who didn't even make a tackle.

Colin Campbell was fouled by Peter McCloy towards the end of the 1979 cup final. No penalty was given and the game ended 0-0.

The Falkirk player who handled in our play off game.

There are countless examples.

Are we really saying that we prefer all those wrong decisions to VAR?

Every time a ref makes a bad call against us there are cries of cheat and corruption etc.

VAR reduces the possibility of that.

Is a few seconds delay so bad that we prefer injustice?

wookie70
18-02-2020, 06:22 PM
I'd like var introduced but not until the authorities can work out time limits for decisions. I'd also like the use determined by the ref and one challenge for each team. I would also like more science ie if the frame rate is 60 a second how far would the ball move in that time and what is the margin of error. That margin of error would always be on the attackers side for offside decisions.
I, like most Hibbies can rattle off a good number of very important decisions that were clearly wrong. They were wrong when we saw them live never mind replays and when I challenge other fans they struggle to give such clear examples. VAR may have won us a cup, may have also stop us getting relegated and could have seen us in the next round of play offs. Those decisions were obvious and a second or two with a replay would be all that would have been required. I don't want 3 minute pauses where refs are debating. Unclear means go with original section in under a minute.

ekhibee
18-02-2020, 06:43 PM
If it's introduced in Scotland then it's just an added layer of protection for the OF. If FIFA don't review the decisions we make then they can do anything they want.

For me it would do the opposite, it would highlight the dodgy decisions they get in their favour and all the dodgy ones Hearts get at Tynecastle too, not that it's worked in their favour this year. Managers like Gerard wouldn't have the platform to blame the decision-making process if it's there on camera for all to see. I would be interested to see how the retrospective red card thing would work if VAR was in place though. And if it helps put a stop to red card offences by OF players being constantly recinded then that's surely a plus as well. Just my opinion though. Depends what VAR system they use I suppose.

Hibbyradge
18-02-2020, 06:46 PM
For me it would do the opposite, it would highlight the dodgy decisions they get in their favour and all the dodgy ones Hearts get at Tynecastle too, not that it's worked in their favour this year.

My thoughts too.

Hibbyradge
18-02-2020, 06:52 PM
I'd like var introduced but not until the authorities can work out time limits for decisions. I'd also like the use determined by the ref and one challenge for each team. I would also like more science ie if the frame rate is 60 a second how far would the ball move in that time and what is the margin of error. That margin of error would always be on the attackers side for offside decisions.
I, like most Hibbies can rattle off a good number of very important decisions that were clearly wrong. They were wrong when we saw them live never mind replays and when I challenge other fans they struggle to give such clear examples. VAR may have won us a cup, may have also stop us getting relegated and could have seen us in the next round of play offs. Those decisions were obvious and a second or two with a replay would be all that would have been required. I don't want 3 minute pauses where refs are debating. Unclear means go with original section in under a minute.

I understand your point and I have some sympathy for it.

The difficulty will be that the Sky people will have all the time in the world to show that the decision was wrong and fans will still complain.

cookin_on_gaz
18-02-2020, 06:54 PM
Would they have to install large TV screens in all the grounds to accommodate VAR in Scotland?

Sent from my AGS-W09 using Tapatalk

KingPat4
18-02-2020, 07:03 PM
I understand your point and I have some sympathy for it.

The difficulty will be that the Sky people will have all the time in the world to show that the decision was wrong and fans will still complain.

If we do get VAR up here with the decisions made in a remote location, where would it be?

I suggest a croft on Shetland. " Och Morag, come and help me with this. Morelas has just scored, but looks a yard offside. "

"Is it at Ibrox, Annie"? " Aye, it is that Morag".

"Och, just give the goal Annie, we're no wanting any more of those, ' I will find you and I will kill you', phone calls.

Carheenlea
18-02-2020, 07:29 PM
I'd like var introduced but not until the authorities can work out time limits for decisions. I'd also like the use determined by the ref and one challenge for each team. I would also like more science ie if the frame rate is 60 a second how far would the ball move in that time and what is the margin of error. That margin of error would always be on the attackers side for offside decisions.
I, like most Hibbies can rattle off a good number of very important decisions that were clearly wrong. They were wrong when we saw them live never mind replays and when I challenge other fans they struggle to give such clear examples. VAR may have won us a cup, may have also stop us getting relegated and could have seen us in the next round of play offs. Those decisions were obvious and a second or two with a replay would be all that would have been required. I don't want 3 minute pauses where refs are debating. Unclear means go with original section in under a minute.

Football never needs such scientifically accurate measuring. It’s not part of the sport like it would be in say athletics. Football as a spectacle is diminished by VAR and as a sport interruptions are not conducive to the ebb and flow of a 90 minute encounter.

Goal line technology is as far as we need to go with outside assistance for referees in my opinion.

Hibbyradge
18-02-2020, 11:22 PM
Football never needs such scientifically accurate measuring. It’s not part of the sport like it would be in say athletics. Football as a spectacle is diminished by VAR and as a sport interruptions are not conducive to the ebb and flow of a 90 minute encounter.

Goal line technology is as far as we need to go with outside assistance for referees in my opinion.

Football doesn't benefit from blatantly wrong decisions from referees.

There has to be a way to use technology to make it better.

HoboHarry
18-02-2020, 11:31 PM
Football doesn't benefit from blatantly wrong decisions from referees.

There has to be a way to use technology to make it better.
There is and I wish English referees would figure it out soon. They are alienating players, coaches, fans and they have got to know that FIFA are watching. Scotland and England didn't have a referee between them at the last World Cup and based on this season that isn't going to change for the next one.

wookie70
18-02-2020, 11:55 PM
Football never needs such scientifically accurate measuring. It’s not part of the sport like it would be in say athletics. Football as a spectacle is diminished by VAR and as a sport interruptions are not conducive to the ebb and flow of a 90 minute encounter.

Goal line technology is as far as we need to go with outside assistance for referees in my opinion.

Offside is fairly similar to goal line technology imo except the line is constantly moving. Players crossing in an offside situation is a very difficult thing to judge and almost impossible if the linesman is a metre or two behind play. The technology needs to be quick to use and also quick to display the result, certainly no more than a minute.

Any time I think VAR would be a bad idea I think about Shaw, Griffith, Campbell and Forster. These were decisions that most of the ground knew were wrong immediately. No need for fancy lines on a screen. Those are the decisions I want VAR to fix. When it is debatable on first viewing go with the on field decision and get on with the game.

I also think the argument about a goal not being a goal and the celebration being lost cuts both ways. What about all those goals you don't celebrate because you see the linos flag. That flag may stay down if the lino is not absolutely sure and we get a bonus celebration and a goal that stands.

I want more science and that can happen without the mess the FA has created.. Has any research taken place to see how often refs and assistants get decisions right. Obviously I'm talking about definitive decisions, dives with no contact, clear offsides etc. If it is 5% I might live with those mistakes but if it is 20 % surely VAR would level the playing field, especially in Scotland.

RyeSloan
19-02-2020, 12:54 AM
If we do get VAR up here with the decisions made in a remote location, where would it be?

I suggest a croft on Shetland. " Och Morag, come and help me with this. Morelas has just scored, but looks a yard offside. "

"Is it at Ibrox, Annie"? " Aye, it is that Morag".

"Och, just give the goal Annie, we're no wanting any more of those, ' I will find you and I will kill you', phone calls.

I think what you are describing it this..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cTsvLjAzozE

VAR Stoneybridge stylee [emoji2957]

Caversham Green
19-02-2020, 09:55 AM
What about, for offside decisions, if its going by such small margins like Giroud's toe being off. It should only be off if you score with that part of your body?

He scored with his head so does his toe being a mm off matter?

Not sure if thats a stupid suggestion..

Maybe the test should be whether a significant proportion of the attacker's body is in an offside position. It would then just take a glance at the screen to make the decision and if there's any doubt the referee's decision takes precedence. Either that or VAR is only used to check whether the ref missed something clear and obvious - a dive, push or off the ball incident for example, or someone in a blatantly offside position. The delay just sucks all the passion out if the game IMO.

I keep thinking back to 2016 - "What a moment this is. It's Liam Henderson to deliveeerrrr………
David Gray has put the ball in the net and now we have a wait to see whether the goal counts or not." I know that's not how it works at the moment but it will develop into that if we're not careful. An appeal system could well have the same result - "Rangers" would almost certainly have put in an appeal at that point, and I wouldn't blame them.

VAR has a place in football but I think it's being misused in the EPL at the moment.

Carheenlea
19-02-2020, 10:01 AM
Football doesn't benefit from blatantly wrong decisions from referees.

There has to be a way to use technology to make it better.


Offside is fairly similar to goal line technology imo except the line is constantly moving. Players crossing in an offside situation is a very difficult thing to judge and almost impossible if the linesman is a metre or two behind play. The technology needs to be quick to use and also quick to display the result, certainly no more than a minute.

Any time I think VAR would be a bad idea I think about Shaw, Griffith, Campbell and Forster. These were decisions that most of the ground knew were wrong immediately. No need for fancy lines on a screen. Those are the decisions I want VAR to fix. When it is debatable on first viewing go with the on field decision and get on with the game.

I also think the argument about a goal not being a goal and the celebration being lost cuts both ways. What about all those goals you don't celebrate because you see the linos flag. That flag may stay down if the lino is not absolutely sure and we get a bonus celebration and a goal that stands.

I want more science and that can happen without the mess the FA has created.. Has any research taken place to see how often refs and assistants get decisions right. Obviously I'm talking about definitive decisions, dives with no contact, clear offsides etc. If it is 5% I might live with those mistakes but if it is 20 % surely VAR would level the playing field, especially in Scotland.

There’s a difference I think in clear goals like Shaw and Griffiths being ruled out in clear error to offside decisions being made on measurements too small to see with the naked eye and slight brushes of handball.

When offsides are so tight there is skill involved in beating and defending offsides, but nobody is skilful enough to make sure their feet or an elbow is not an inch too far forward. When arguing over offside decisions after games in the pub nobody ever talked in such small measurements.

Refereeing decisions in football was always more about interpretation rather than actual fact. Yes, VAR will ultimately make more of these decisions fact based rather than interpretation, but the thing just feels a bit sterile for me. The argument used in VAR’s defence will always be that the correct decisions will always be made, but with such small margins being forensically examined to do so is not an improvement to a sport like football.

oneone73
19-02-2020, 10:02 AM
Maybe the test should be whether a significant proportion of the attacker's body is in an offside position. It would then just take a glance at the screen to make the decision and if there's any doubt the referee's decision takes precedence. Either that or VAR is only used to check whether the ref missed something clear and obvious - a dive, push or off the ball incident for example, or someone in a blatantly offside position. The delay just sucks all the passion out if the game IMO.

I keep thinking back to 2016 - "What a moment this is. It's Liam Henderson to deliveeerrrr………
David Gray has put the ball in the net and now we have a wait to see whether the goal counts or not." I know that's not how it works at the moment but it will develop into that if we're not careful. An appeal system could well have the same result - "Rangers" would almost certainly have put in an appeal at that point, and I wouldn't blame them.

VAR has a place in football but I think it's being misused in the EPL at the moment.

Interesting. They certainly would have challenged Stokesey's second goal ... and would have been looking for a penalty for Lewis on Waghorn.

Caversham Green
19-02-2020, 10:16 AM
Interesting. They certainly would have challenged Stokesey's second goal ... and would have been looking for a penalty for Lewis on Waghorn.

I think VAR would have picked up Lewis's 'push' on Waghorn without an appeal and would have awarded a penalty even though in my completely unbiased opinion Waghorn dived after the slightest touch by Lewis. I also think they would have won an appeal re Stokesy's second goal.

Be careful what you wish for?

Paloschi
19-02-2020, 10:17 AM
Absolutely and under no circumstances should VAR be applied in the SPFL in it's current form. We've seen how certain clubs have benefited a great deal in England with selective reviews and rules being applied differently. As there is a undeniable bias towards two Glasgow clubs in particular, this would be a disaster.

It's a shame because of our chronically inept and definitely west leaning refs.

steelendhibs
19-02-2020, 10:55 AM
If VAR was brought in to the Scottish Premiership I wouldn’t be able to make midweek home games as I would miss the last train back to Fife!

Hibbyradge
19-02-2020, 11:30 AM
If VAR was brought in to the Scottish Premiership I wouldn’t be able to make midweek home games as I would miss the last train back to Fife!

I know you're being sarcastic, but I'd prefer to occasionally miss the last few minutes than miss the whole game.

RyeSloan
19-02-2020, 02:06 PM
UEFA floating the old ‘daylight’ concept for offside...so any part of the striker is in line with the defender counts as onside.

While this makes a bit of sense do we not just end up with the same millimetre measurements but now with the last part of the strikers allowable goal scoring appendages rather than the first part?

Hibbyradge
19-02-2020, 02:07 PM
UEFA floating the old ‘daylight’ concept for offside...so any part of the striker is in line with the defender counts as onside.

While this makes a bit of sense do we not just end up with the same millimetre measurements but now with the last part of the strikers allowable goal scoring appendages rather than the first part?

Yep, exactly the same issues.

Carheenlea
19-02-2020, 02:08 PM
UEFA floating the old ‘daylight’ concept for offside...so any part of the striker is in line with the defender counts as onside.

While this makes a bit of sense do we not just end up with the same millimetre measurements but now with the last part of the strikers allowable goal scoring appendages rather than the first part?

I’d say so, yes :agree:

HoboHarry
19-02-2020, 03:42 PM
Anyone that thinks VAR would help the crap level of referees we have in Scotland just need to look at the James Keatings decision today. Bewildering. The blindingly obvious is apparently, well, not blindingly obvious at all......

steelendhibs
19-02-2020, 03:44 PM
I know you're being sarcastic, but I'd prefer to occasionally miss the last few minutes than miss the whole game.

I hate leaving games early

Is It On....
19-02-2020, 03:54 PM
I don't think I'd want to keep going every week if VAR arrives in Scotland.

I've stopped watching the EPL (I still watch the EFL).

I watched a cracking movie on Netflix tonight then put on the Chelsea game to see the VAR disallow Giroud's goal.

I simply can't take to it. I listen to 5 live and Talksport a lot and feel my views are aligned with the majority of everyday fans who contribute to discussion around the subject.

I think I feel so crap about the thought of it in Scotland that I would stop going.

It will never, in my opinion, be allowed in Scotland because it negates a key advantage [dodgy decisions in their favour] that Celtic and Sevco 2012 have over the other teams.

MyJo
19-02-2020, 05:40 PM
The way they are using it in England is the problem, making a player offside by literally centimetres is nonsense.

They should introduce it in Scotland but keep the responsibility on the decision with the referee on the pitch.

The referee can choose to use the system whenever they want to review for red card decisions, penalty claims, if a ball has crossed the goal-line or an unflagged offside in the build up to a goal but none of this measuring lines etc, simply give him a replay at the side of the pitch and he makes the decision on that alone.

If the referee chooses not to review a decision themselves then each team gets two challenges per game that the manager or team captain can use to force the referee do a VAR review. If that review comes back with a no change in decision outcome then the team loses their challenge. If the referee does change the decision they get to keep the challenge. Once a team has lost both of their challenges they no longer have any rights to question the referees decisions for the remainder of the match.