Caroline Flack RIP

[Scouse Hibee]

Such a sad ending

Media hounded to death.

[Billy Whizz]

Just saw that, sad for someone so young

[Andy74]

Such a sad ending

Media hounded to death.

I’m not sure media hounded to death.

It’s a shame for the likes of her that on the one hand have craved the publicity and built that through social media and the can’t cope with fallout when it turns negative.

Must be tricky to step back and realise most of the public really don’t care one way or another when you’re in that celebrity and social media bubble.

[bingo70]

Such a sad ending

Media hounded to death.

Absolute tragedy.

Such a shame and someone I always really liked on the tele (yes I was forced to watch love island)

I don’t get the media blame though.

She allegedly beat up her boyfriend, an accusation that was making as far as court so I would assume had some truth to it, how much I guess we will never know.

She was a public figure and domestic abuse is a newsworthy story.

As I’m typing that I am recognising hat now isn’t the time to be speculating as to what happened, I just don’t agree with the idea that it was the media that caused her downfall. To me it sounds like she had her demons, and that’s maybe what led to whatever happened with her boyfriend, I think she must have had issues before she had the media attention she has had really.

There’s absolutely no denying the tragedy of the whole thing though.

[Scouse Hibee]

I’m not sure media hounded to death.

It’s a shame for the likes of her that on the one hand have craved the publicity and built that through social media and the can’t cope with fallout when it turns negative.

Must be tricky to step back and realise most of the public really don’t care one way or another when you’re in that celebrity and social media bubble.

The Sun went after her of that there is no doubt, hardly surprising from that utter despicable organisation. Strangely enough they have removed all of their stories following her death according to what I have been told. Hounded to death is indeed appropriate.

[bingo70]

The Sun went after her of that there is no doubt, hardly surprising from that utter despicable organisation. Strangely enough they have removed all of their stories following her death according to what I have been told. Hounded to death is indeed appropriate.

If a public figure is accused of domestic abuse would you not expect it to be fairly prominent in the media, especially the red tops?

[heretoday]

It sounds like she was very badly advised and supported in the last few years.

[Pretty Boy]

Execution by media.

They have hounded her for years. Whatever the recent allegations the principle of innocent until proven guilty went out the window. Ever since the Harry Styles relationship there has been a vendetta against her.

[bingo70]

Execution by media.

They have hounded her for years. Whatever the recent allegations the principle of innocent until proven guilty went out the window.

Did they hound her before the accusations of domestic abuse? Genuine question that btw.

I should maybe step away from this discussion, I have close family in the media, it’s the sports media so totally different to this situation but my natural stance here is to defend them.

I don’t think the media are to blame though, I think it’s an absolute tragedy what has happened but I think it’s the demons in her head that she had that has caused this, not what the media have reported about what’s happened in her private life.

[Pretty Boy]

Did they hound her before the accusations of domestic abuse? Genuine question that btw.

I should maybe step away from this discussion, I have close family in the media, it’s the sports media so totally different to this situation but my natural stance here is to defend them.

I don’t think the media are to blame though, I think it’s an absolute tragedy what has happened but I think it’s the demons in her head that she had that has caused this, not what the media have reported about what’s happened in her private life.

In answer to your 1st question. Yes. There has been a nasty element within the media trying to paint her in the worst possible light since the relationship I mentioned. It's like a watered down version of the vitriol stirred up against Meghan Markle.

Of course it goes deeper than that but the manipulation of public opinion against her has been shameful. The best explanation of it is probably the South Park episode about Britney Spears, the gutter press need their sacrificial lambs.

[hibsbollah]

I am fundamentally sick to the stomach of the gutter press in this society. There is of course never any 100% proof why someone takes the final decision but by God it's fairly obvious who is culpable in this case. And the culture of bullying and public shaming isnt changing any time soon. If those ****s weren't forced to change after the Molly Dowler case they never will.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Another example of someone who was famous for being famous.

[EH6 Hibby]

Another example of someone who was famous for being famous.

In what way? She was a tv presenter, is that your opinion on all presenters? She may not have presented any programs that you watched, but she was involved in two of ITV’s biggest shows. She also won strictly which is not exactly easy.

[Dunbar Hibee]

Just horrendous.

[Ozyhibby]

The media are only supplying a product that the public craves. And celebrities help them do it. Most of them tip off photographers etc when they are going out in the hope of publicity.


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[bawheid]

Media hounded is correct. It’s an absolute sin, poor girl. Why anyone buys or clicks on the Sun and their like is beyond me. A horrible, twisted, evil and corrupt rag that’s caused misery to countless souls over the years.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Tragic that anyone gets so low to do such a thing.
The self justification of her death on this thread is equally as tragic.

I may get launched for saying that, no apologies.

[McSwanky]

Most of them tip off photographers etc when they are going out in the hope of publicity.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkDo they, aye?

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[stoneyburn hibs]

Do they, aye?

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You'd be naive to think otherwise.
I'm surprised you're surprised.

[McSwanky]

You'd be naive to think otherwise.
I'm surprised you're surprised.No doubt there are some who do. But most?

See famous people? They're just people.

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[RyeSloan]

Must admit I had never heard of her until the domestic thing recently.

Seems to have unraveled for her very quickly after that so I can only imagine she has been suffering for a long time for one reason or another.

Living in the spotlight must take a hell of a toll on some people and ultimately it seems like she saw only one, tragic, way out.

[Jonnyboy]

Tragic that anyone gets so low to do such a thing.
The self justification of her death on this thread is equally as tragic.

I may get launched for saying that, no apologies.

Agree :agree:

A young pers0on has taken her own life and that is tragic.

[Mibbes Aye]

Tragic that anyone gets so low to do such a thing.
The self justification of her death on this thread is equally as tragic.

I may get launched for saying that, no apologies.

:agree:

[wpj]

The depression and anxiety thread further down this page proves anyone, absolutely anyone can feel so low as to do this for a variety of reasons. There is also a post of someone taking their lives in Longniddry. There are sometimes triggers sometimes not but it is tragic.

[Kato]

The media are only supplying a product that the public craves.

The product can shaped and delivered in any way the press wants. It's a very narrowed furrow the press ploughs. I certainly don't crave lies, hype or twisted truths from the press but they make a lot of copy from just that.



Most of them tip off photographers etc when they are going out in the hope of publicity.

You don't know that.

[Betty Boop]

[QUOTE=NORTHERNHIBBY;6085893]Another example of someone who was famous for being famous.[/QUOTE


Is it aye really ?

[heretoday]

She must have had a lousy press agent. It's their job to protect celebs from adverse publicity.
I'm sorry but nothing in the case as it sits strikes me as worth topping oneself. I suspect drink or drugs and that may have been the cause of the initial assault. It usually is.
Hopefully the CPS won't have to dole out compensation to her family. They've enough to do. They don't pursue "show trials".

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

[QUOTE=NORTHERNHIBBY;6085893]Another example of someone who was famous for being famous.[/QUOTE


Is it aye really ?


What does is it aye really mean??

[danhibees1875]

A very sad news story to read about. Would hate to think how much torment someone lives through before they make that final decision.

A lot of questions over how the media and society generally treat other people and interfere in their private lives. Questions which will go ignored. I see the Sun have already moved on and had articles published painting Katy Price in a bad light.


Another example of someone who was famous for being famous.

A strange initial thought about someone taking their own life NH.

She had a 19 year career on television, building her way up to being a large part of one of ITVs biggest shows over the last 4 years, as well as a few other high profile roles.

[RyeSloan]

She must have had a lousy press agent. It's their job to protect celebs from adverse publicity.
I'm sorry but nothing in the case as it sits strikes me as worth topping oneself. I suspect drink or drugs and that may have been the cause of the initial assault. It usually is.
Hopefully the CPS won't have to dole out compensation to her family. They've enough to do. They don't pursue "show trials".

If the CPS is only half as useless as the PF here then you can bet your bottom dollar they will absolutely pursue cases that have no merit. Quite whether they wanted a ‘show trial’ who knows.

But on very quick reading the case seems a bit bizarre. She was accused of assault yet the assaulted didn’t press charges nor wanted a trial. And then bail conditions stop her seeing him until the trial was finished.

If that’s an accurate summary then I’m confused as to just what the trial was for and who’s interest it was in.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Point I was trying to make about reality telly in general, which I really don't have any time for, is that the "stars" are essentially playing themselves and it's almost like the performances are allowed to be criticised and torn apart on social media without thinking that they are not actors. Where ITV 2 have cancelled an episode as a mark of respect, surely the whole programme should be shelved.

[makaveli1875]

If the CPS is only half as useless as the PF here then you can bet your bottom dollar they will absolutely pursue cases that have no merit. Quite whether they wanted a ‘show trial’ who knows.

But on very quick reading the case seems a bit bizarre. She was accused of assault yet the assaulted didn’t press charges nor wanted a trial. And then bail conditions stop her seeing him until the trial was finished.

If that’s an accurate summary then I’m confused as to just what the trial was for and who’s interest it was in.

Im sure the police were called and they arrived at her house to find her boyfriend in a pool of blood as she had bashed him over the head with a lamp or something

[ekhibee]

I've not read the Sun for over 20 years, probably more. I did watch Strictly but never that Love Island thing. In Strictly I thought she was quite manipulative, crying her eyes out at the right time, and she lied about never having danced seriously before. That opened the floodgates and now Strictly every year is full of people who have had dancing experience before the competition. That completely defeats the whole point of the show, but anyway.

From personal family experience, it is tragic when somebody decides to take their own life. In Flack's case, whether people think she craved publicity/attention, was hounded by the press, battered her boyfriend, it's irrelevant, she's gone now and those she left behind have to pick up the pieces, and it will stay with them forever.

[Bristolhibby]

Piers (murdered kid phone hacker) Morgan has the f*****g balls to post this on Twitter.

“Caroline was a fun, bright & sparky person whose whole world collapsed recently, both professionally & personally. She told me it had been the worst time of her life, and was clearly struggling to cope with losing everything she held dear.
This is such sad, awful news.”

Thankfully Irvine Welsh calls him out with this “ **** off you two faced twat”.

Morgan is either has a painful lack of self awareness in his role in the toxic media or is an evil troll.

J

[Hibrandenburg]

Firstly, I have no idea who this lady is/was, however I'm certain that the tabloid press and social media simply provide a service. If there was no market for the filth and nosey parker voyeuristic rubbish that they publish, then they wouldn't exist. It's ironic that the majority of people who pour their hearts out over the loss of people elevated to the status of prominence, are usually those that drive the industry in the first place by financing it.

[speedy_gonzales]

If the CPS is only half as useless as the PF here then you can bet your bottom dollar they will absolutely pursue cases that have no merit. Quite whether they wanted a ‘show trial’ who knows.

But on very quick reading the case seems a bit bizarre. She was accused of assault yet the assaulted didn’t press charges nor wanted a trial. And then bail conditions stop her seeing him until the trial was finished.

If that’s an accurate summary then I’m confused as to just what the trial was for and who’s interest it was in.

"Public interest" was the main driver behind the CPS.
The allegation that the injured party was hit across the head by a bedside lamp whilst asleep, resulting in quite a serious injury. Both parties quickly retracted their complaints that were reported to the first responders.
Now, if a couple have a disagreement then genuinely make up after showing due remorse, I believe they should be allowed to in private.
But, when there is a quite serious head injury and a sniff of repeated domestic abuse, you can understand why the CPS may want to pursue, in the public interest. It would be too easy for victims of domestic abuse to be "persuaded" to withdraw their complaint.
Absolute tragedy that it would appear she took her own life just hours after being advised the CPS were proceeding with the case. I'm sure there will be a close review of the case and we'll find out whether the pursuance was due to the severity of the domestic assault or whether it was due to the high profile nature of the case,,,,

[Cataplana]

I think people demanding a change to the law covering journalism need to wait a bit. They should step back and make their judgements once all the facts are known.

Some of the knee jerk stuff today has all the characteristics of a mob, and makes them as look as bad as the people they are criticising.

For all we know this could be death by misadventure, or accidental overdose.

It is, of course tragic that she is dead, but we don't know a lot about the circumstances. Other than that reported by the very people who are getting the blame.

Don't ban the yellow press, don't buy it.

[LustForLeith]

As someone who suffers from depression and has contemplated suicide I’ve found this to be quite a difficult story. I never knew her and I wasn’t really aware of the domestic abuse story but at the heart of the situation it appears that a young woman decided to take her own life when she couldn’t face going on. That’s brutally tragic.

I spent ages last night going through Twitter and I don’t think it was doing me any good. A lot of people pointing fingers at various outlets and individuals turns those targeted into victims and creates a whole new level of trolls ie sticking up for the likes of Flack.

I don’t think the tabloids have covered themselves in glory and I don’t think social media users should be allowed near the internet. How many of the people saying things to others would be brave enough to say those things to their face as opposed to from the safety of a keyboard?

[danhibees1875]

Point I was trying to make about reality telly in general, which I really don't have any time for, is that the "stars" are essentially playing themselves and it's almost like the performances are allowed to be criticised and torn apart on social media without thinking that they are not actors. Where ITV 2 have cancelled an episode as a mark of respect, surely the whole programme should be shelved.

I'm not really sure I understand your point here - what she had to go through had nothing to do with Love Island. :confused:

I think they're right to cancel tonight's show, maybe even the current series - if nothing else then because the crew and presenters would have known Caroline very well and shouldn't be right back to work the next day.

[Mibbes Aye]

As someone who suffers from depression and has contemplated suicide I’ve found this to be quite a difficult story. I never knew her and I wasn’t really aware of the domestic abuse story but at the heart of the situation it appears that a young woman decided to take her own life when she couldn’t face going on. That’s brutally tragic.

I spent ages last night going through Twitter and I don’t think it was doing me any good. A lot of people pointing fingers at various outlets and individuals turns those targeted into victims and creates a whole new level of trolls ie sticking up for the likes of Flack.

I don’t think the tabloids have covered themselves in glory and I don’t think social media users should be allowed near the internet. How many of the people saying things to others would be brave enough to say those things to their face as opposed to from the safety of a keyboard?

Difficult stuff and I hope you have some one to talk to or to hear you.

Best wishes.

[McSwanky]

Firstly, I have no idea who this lady is/was, however I'm certain that the tabloid press and social media simply provide a service. If there was no market for the filth and nosey parker voyeuristic rubbish that they publish, then they wouldn't exist. It's ironic that the majority of people who pour their hearts out over the loss of people elevated to the status of prominence, are usually those that drive the industry in the first place by financing it.

Just because people consume it doesn't make it right.

There's loads of people who would buy knocked off goods in a pub without asking any questions, but that doesn't make me go out and thieve some quality goods for 'redistribution'. No doubt someone else will 'provide that service' - is that also OK with you? Even if they nicked it from you?

Bottom line, the press are in a privileged position and should act with some responsibility.

By the way, I also don't buy the claim that the majority of people who comment about their sadness are the same people who buy the newspapers. I think anyone with an ounce of empathy in their bodies can see the absolute tragedy of this story.

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[NORTHERNHIBBY]

I'm not really sure I understand your point here - what she had to go through had nothing to do with Love Island. :confused:

I think they're right to cancel tonight's show, maybe even the current series - if nothing else then because the crew and presenters would have known Caroline very well and shouldn't be right back to work the next day.


Isn't this the third suicide associated with that show? Is that just a terrible coincidence?

[CallumLaidlaw]

Isn't this the third suicide associated with that show? Is that just a terrible coincidence?

Id say so. As it could be any reality tv star and that happens to be the biggest reality show at present. I do wonder what state big brother contestants would be in if they’d had the same social media scrutiny as the love island contestants when it was in its heyday.

Caroline flack could’ve been the presenter of any tv show. It’s been confirmed that yesterday morning she found out the CPS were going to take her case to court.


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[calumhibee1]

When the singer Chris Brown beat Rihanna he was absolutely slaughtered in the media and by people all over Twitter and still is to this date.

When Caroline Flack smashes something over her sleeping partners head and is given the same sort of hard time, the same people who gave Chris Brown abuse have now decided that everybody should have "been kind" to her.

So, what's it to be?

There's no doubting anyone taking their life is a tragedy but the different reactions to these two incidents show a massive difference in the way domestic abuse towards a man is considered compared to domestic abuse towards a woman.

She was a public figure who domestically abused her partner. It was always going to be in the papers and there's no way that'll ever change.

Having said all that, it's a massive shame that she felt this was her only way out.

I'm probably not making my point very well, but I'm struggling to find the sympathy in this situation everybody else is for someone who (allegedly) has a history of abusing more than partner and breaking her bail conditions.

[Colr]

Went to an interesting talk by a bloke called Archon Fung who is a prof from Harvard. He was comparing our struggle to socialise digital media with the way mass media was misused in the 20s and 30s leading to the rise of populist fascism. Could have made a similar point about the expansion of print media in the 19th Century much of which was devoted to lies and political manipulation.

Interesting stuff. I think its my generation and my parents generation that are struggling with this the most.

[Pretty Boy]

When the singer Chris Brown beat Rihanna he was absolutely slaughtered in the media and by people all over Twitter and still is to this date.

When Caroline Flack smashes something over her sleeping partners head and is given the same sort of hard time, the same people who gave Chris Brown abuse have now decided that everybody should have "been kind" to her.

So, what's it to be?

There's no doubting anyone taking their life is a tragedy but the different reactions to these two incidents show a massive difference in the way domestic abuse towards a man is considered compared to domestic abuse towards a woman.

She was a public figure who domestically abused her partner. It was always going to be in the papers and there's no way that'll ever change.

Having said all that, it's a massive shame that she felt this was her only way out.

How did you reach the conclusion it was the same people reacting in different ways to the incidents you described?

I'm not being arsey but that's a huge statement to make. Given both incidents will have attracted literally millions of reactions on social media and in the press there is obviously going to be an occasional case of 'double standards' but it's a huge leap to make a sweeping generalisation.

The differing reactions to 2 incidents of domestic abuse can be debated all day but part of the explanation is surely the different outcomes. Chris Brown has continued his career successfully; since he pled guilty in 2009 he has had 3 number 1 albums, embarked on 4 world tours, has had multiple top 10 hits across the world and had a fairly sympathetic documentary made about him. Caroline Flack took her own life.

[hibee_girl]

When the singer Chris Brown beat Rihanna he was absolutely slaughtered in the media and by people all over Twitter and still is to this date.

When Caroline Flack smashes something over her sleeping partners head and is given the same sort of hard time, the same people who gave Chris Brown abuse have now decided that everybody should have "been kind" to her.

So, what's it to be?

There's no doubting anyone taking their life is a tragedy but the different reactions to these two incidents show a massive difference in the way domestic abuse towards a man is considered compared to domestic abuse towards a woman.

She was a public figure who domestically abused her partner. It was always going to be in the papers and there's no way that'll ever change.

Having said all that, it's a massive shame that she felt this was her only way out.

I'm probably not making my point very well, but I'm struggling to find the sympathy in this situation everybody else is for someone who (allegedly) has a history of abusing more than partner and breaking her bail conditions.

When did she break her bail conditions? Surely if that was true she would have been punished for it.

Also Chris Brown was found guilty, Caroline Flack hadn’t been found guilty of anything at the time of her death.

[calumhibee1]

How did you reach the conclusion it was the same people reacting in different ways to the incidents you described?

I'm not being arsey but that's a huge statement to make. Given both incidents will have attracted literally millions of reactions on social media and in the press there is obviously going to be an occasional case of 'double standards' but it's a huge leap to make a sweeping generalisation.

The differing reactions to 2 incidents of domestic abuse can be debated all day but part of the explanation is surely the different outcomes. Chris Brown has continued his career successfully; since he pled guilty in 2009 he has had 3 number 1 albums, embarked on 4 world tours, has had multiple top 10 hits across the world and had a fairly sympathetic documentary made about him. Caroline Flack took her own life.

Because I've seen it. Of course not everyone has shown the same double standards, but there's plenty of it. People who I've seen posting on social media about a boycott of Chris Browns music, how they have no respect for people who listen to his music, how can anyone find him attractive etc. - none of which I have any issue with btw. These very same people are desperate to back up CF and denounce the the abuse she's received and the media attention she's had but are more than happy to indulge it when it was a case of a male abuser.

Was Caroline Flacks post at Love Island not pretty much still open to her once this all blew over? That certainly seems to be what's been suggested over the last day (I don't watch it so I can't say I paid enough attention when the domestic abuse stories came out as to whether she'd get her job back)

Like I said, it's tragic to see anyone take their own life. I'm not buying into how great a person she was etc though. The prosecutors comments in court don't paint a pretty picture - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/12/23/caroline-flack-love-island-presenter-arrives-court-face-charge/

I think we can say with a degree of certainty that had a guy been out on bail for causing damage to his mrs that "resembled a horror film" and then killed himself that there would absolutely not be the same sort of denouncement of the media/public for commenting on it. In reality, domestic abuse by a female against a male is generally seen as a much lesser crime.

[calumhibee1]

When did she break her bail conditions? Surely if that was true she would have been punished for it.

Also Chris Brown was found guilty, Caroline Flack hadn’t been found guilty of anything at the time of her death.

As I said above, I'm not one for Love Island or even celeb culture in general - I'd read elsewhere that she had contacted her partner/husband since being released on bail. If that's not the case then apologies.

You're right, but I'm going to put my neck on the line and suggest that Chris Brown was most likely on the end of similar comments to what he is now before he was found guilty. The public and the press generally don't hang off for a verdict before making comment/printing negative stories.

[Hibrandenburg]

Just because people consume it doesn't make it right.

There's loads of people who would buy knocked off goods in a pub without asking any questions, but that doesn't make me go out and thieve some quality goods for 'redistribution'. No doubt someone else will 'provide that service' - is that also OK with you? Even if they nicked it from you?

Bottom line, the press are in a privileged position and should act with some responsibility.

By the way, I also don't buy the claim that the majority of people who comment about their sadness are the same people who buy the newspapers. I think anyone with an ounce of empathy in their bodies can see the absolute tragedy of this story.

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I didn't say any of it was right, just that's the way it is. The thirst for dirt is unquenchable amongst the masses and the gutter press, society magazines and social media are awash with it. Nothing sells more than a sordid story that ends in tragedy, it's always been that way and people love it, they finance the whole industry.

[Sir David Gray]

When the singer Chris Brown beat Rihanna he was absolutely slaughtered in the media and by people all over Twitter and still is to this date.

When Caroline Flack smashes something over her sleeping partners head and is given the same sort of hard time, the same people who gave Chris Brown abuse have now decided that everybody should have "been kind" to her.

So, what's it to be?

There's no doubting anyone taking their life is a tragedy but the different reactions to these two incidents show a massive difference in the way domestic abuse towards a man is considered compared to domestic abuse towards a woman.

She was a public figure who domestically abused her partner. It was always going to be in the papers and there's no way that'll ever change.

Having said all that, it's a massive shame that she felt this was her only way out.

I'm probably not making my point very well, but I'm struggling to find the sympathy in this situation everybody else is for someone who (allegedly) has a history of abusing more than partner and breaking her bail conditions.

I can understand what you're trying to say although it's important to point out that she hadn't actually been convicted of anything as she hadn't stood trial when she died.

I do agree with your general point though as I do believe that a man involved in the same situation as Caroline Flack, i.e. accused, but not convicted, of assaulting their partner, wouldn't have received the same level of sympathy.

It is undoubtedly a tragedy though and there does appear to be a wider issue at play here over the conduct of the media.

[McSwanky]

I didn't say any of it was right, just that's the way it is. The thirst for dirt is unquenchable amongst the masses and the gutter press, society magazines and social media are awash with it. Nothing sells more than a sordid story that ends in tragedy, it's always been that way and people love it, they finance the whole industry.

I'm struggling to see your point then. I agree that they are giving (some) people what they want, but do you think that just because people want things, they should get them?

Do you think that the press should or shouldn't be held responsible for abusive and bullying behavior given that it's 'what people want'?

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[Hibrandenburg]

I'm struggling to see your point then. I agree that they are giving (some) people what they want, but do you think that just because people want things, they should get them?

Do you think that the press should or shouldn't be held responsible for abusive and bullying behavior given that it's 'what people want'?

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I've already said it's not right, I'm not sure what else you want to hear from me. I don't think dealing heroin is right either, but as long as you have people willing to buy it, you'll have people willing to sell it.

[McSwanky]

I've already said it's not right, I'm not sure what else you want to hear from me. I don't think dealing heroin is right either, but as long as you have people willing to buy it, you'll have people willing to sell it.Then you have my apologies, I must have picked the tone of your post up wrong. Sorry.

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[Hibrandenburg]

Then you have my apologies, I must have picked the tone of your post up wrong. Sorry.

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No stress, glad we sorted it out.

[Bristolhibby]

When the singer Chris Brown beat Rihanna he was absolutely slaughtered in the media and by people all over Twitter and still is to this date.

When Caroline Flack smashes something over her sleeping partners head and is given the same sort of hard time, the same people who gave Chris Brown abuse have now decided that everybody should have "been kind" to her.

So, what's it to be?

There's no doubting anyone taking their life is a tragedy but the different reactions to these two incidents show a massive difference in the way domestic abuse towards a man is considered compared to domestic abuse towards a woman.

She was a public figure who domestically abused her partner. It was always going to be in the papers and there's no way that'll ever change.

Having said all that, it's a massive shame that she felt this was her only way out.

I'm probably not making my point very well, but I'm struggling to find the sympathy in this situation everybody else is for someone who (allegedly) has a history of abusing more than partner and breaking her bail conditions.

I dont think you have to say “allegedly” anymore after someone dies.

J

[heretoday]

It's nonsense to blame the media or the CPS for this case.
First, people like Flack owe their success to the media and must expect some brickbats when things go pear-shaped. Her press agent should have told her that if she didn't know already. She completely overreacted, silly thing.

Secondly, the police found a couple covered in blood after a 999 call. A court case results. As things stand the likelihood is Flack would have been acquitted or suspended sentence since her boyfriend doesn't appear to be bothered. No cause for suicide there, surely?

I am sick of putting on the national news to hear tales of fragile egos topping themselves or ranting about their sexual identity when much more important things are needing coverage. The country's going to the dogs in more ways than one.

[G B Young]

It's nonsense to blame the media or the CPS for this case.
First, people like Flack owe their success to the media and must expect some brickbats when things go pear-shaped. Her press agent should have told her that if she didn't know already. She completely overreacted, silly thing.

Secondly, the police found a couple covered in blood after a 999 call. A court case results. As things stand the likelihood is Flack would have been acquitted or suspended sentence since her boyfriend doesn't appear to be bothered. No cause for suicide there, surely?

I am sick of putting on the national news to hear tales of fragile egos topping themselves or ranting about their sexual identity when much more important things are needing coverage. The country's going to the dogs in more ways than one.

We have no idea (or I certainly don't) about the full background to the court case. I heard this morning that there are three quarters of a million reports each year of domestic abuse related incidents in England and Wales alone, of which around 10% lead to prosecution. The prosecution rate is so low largely because many of those who make the complaint withdraw it. However, in not all cases is the prosecution stopped in these circumstances because it's incumbent on prosecutors to establish why the complaint is being withdrawn. The fact that this prosecution proceeded indicates there were perhaps more significant issues to address than a one-off tiff that got out of hand - especially if the allegations (that she hit him over the head with a lamp while he was asleep) are true.

[Betty Boop]

It's nonsense to blame the media or the CPS for this case.
First, people like Flack owe their success to the media and must expect some brickbats when things go pear-shaped. Her press agent should have told her that if she didn't know already. She completely overreacted, silly thing.

Secondly, the police found a couple covered in blood after a 999 call. A court case results. As things stand the likelihood is Flack would have been acquitted or suspended sentence since her boyfriend doesn't appear to be bothered. No cause for suicide there, surely?

I am sick of putting on the national news to hear tales of fragile egos topping themselves or ranting about their sexual identity when much more important things are needing coverage. The country's going to the dogs in more ways than one.


Somebody with a mental illness is a 'silly thing'. Neither wonder its still a taboo subject.

[sleeping giant]

It's nonsense to blame the media or the CPS for this case.
First, people like Flack owe their success to the media and must expect some brickbats when things go pear-shaped. Her press agent should have told her that if she didn't know already. She completely overreacted, silly thing.

Secondly, the police found a couple covered in blood after a 999 call. A court case results. As things stand the likelihood is Flack would have been acquitted or suspended sentence since her boyfriend doesn't appear to be bothered. No cause for suicide there, surely?

I am sick of putting on the national news to hear tales of fragile egos topping themselves or ranting about their sexual identity when much more important things are needing coverage. The country's going to the dogs in more ways than one.

Sometimes its just better to keep your mouth shut.

[Cataplana]

Somebody with a mental illness is a 'silly thing'. Neither wonder its still a taboo subject.

When was she diagnosed with a mental illness, and who diagnosed her?

From what I have read, she wasn't actually receiving treatment. If she had it is obviously a cause for concern that she was at home alone when she was such a suicide risk.

[Colr]

Went to an interesting talk by a bloke called Archon Fung who is a prof from Harvard. He was comparing our struggle to socialise digital media with the way mass media was misused in the 20s and 30s leading to the rise of populist fascism. Could have made a similar point about the expansion of print media in the 19th Century much of which was devoted to lies and political manipulation.

Interesting stuff. I think its my generation and my parents generation that are struggling with this the most.

For anyone interested:

https://www.thersa.org/events/2020/02/democracy-and-the-digital-public-sphere

[CallumLaidlaw]

It's nonsense to blame the media or the CPS for this case.
First, people like Flack owe their success to the media and must expect some brickbats when things go pear-shaped. Her press agent should have told her that if she didn't know already. She completely overreacted, silly thing.

Secondly, the police found a couple covered in blood after a 999 call. A court case results. As things stand the likelihood is Flack would have been acquitted or suspended sentence since her boyfriend doesn't appear to be bothered. No cause for suicide there, surely?

I am sick of putting on the national news to hear tales of fragile egos topping themselves or ranting about their sexual identity when much more important things are needing coverage. The country's going to the dogs in more ways than one.

Wow [emoji85]


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[CallumLaidlaw]

When was she diagnosed with a mental illness, and who diagnosed her?

From what I have read, she wasn't actually receiving treatment. If she had it is obviously a cause for concern that she was at home alone when she was such a suicide risk.

Paramedics were checking on her on Friday. Had her friend staying with her due to concerns. Her friend went to the shops on Saturday and couldn’t access the house when she returned.

Her last “likes” on twitter -

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200217/34493348b7dabd2ed913bf24415885e4.jpg

Also, from 2 years ago -


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/caroline-flack-depression-strictly-come-dancing-winner-2014-love-island-a8674676.html%3famp


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[CallumLaidlaw]

Paramedics were checking on her on Friday. Had her friend staying with her due to concerns. Her friend went to the shops on Saturday and couldn’t access the house when she returned.

Her last “likes” on twitter -

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200217/34493348b7dabd2ed913bf24415885e4.jpg

Also, from 2 years ago -


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/caroline-flack-depression-strictly-come-dancing-winner-2014-love-island-a8674676.html%3famp


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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200217/d5333ed5bf9cf99f419e0216953e1bf6.jpg


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[Betty Boop]

When was she diagnosed with a mental illness, and who diagnosed her?

From what I have read, she wasn't actually receiving treatment. If she had it is obviously a cause for concern that she was at home alone when she was such a suicide risk.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/caroline-flack-mental-health-instagram_uk_5da59399e4b01c76560c77de?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGhcygt09D78sWWIh7pQYHV4i8R8 1VLXkcln0qAVo7755qkQ9Y1wB7zoFDkCx-8e4r3RGMSRONETX9OXfimB6kmNviATz7dIDtT-VlX3YaKBNc1LMGaGElYCF3RZ9NdV26EslIaiRmzMtWlNqVKyFz m3Hnx74-xSj0QSdtkrVWxL

[lord bunberry]

It's nonsense to blame the media or the CPS for this case.
First, people like Flack owe their success to the media and must expect some brickbats when things go pear-shaped. Her press agent should have told her that if she didn't know already. She completely overreacted, silly thing.

Secondly, the police found a couple covered in blood after a 999 call. A court case results. As things stand the likelihood is Flack would have been acquitted or suspended sentence since her boyfriend doesn't appear to be bothered. No cause for suicide there, surely?

I am sick of putting on the national news to hear tales of fragile egos topping themselves or ranting about their sexual identity when much more important things are needing coverage. The country's going to the dogs in more ways than one.
What an idiotic and offensive post. You’ve got absolutely no idea what you’re talking about if you think someone will just kill themselves because they have a fragile ego.

[pontius pilate]

Its is a shame that she decided that the only way out was tot she her own life.
Like other have said about the domestic abuse if it was the other way round there would be no sympathy for the male involved.
However caroline flack has been hounded by the media and social media for as long as I can remember going back to her early days on the extra factor and her alleged fling with harry styles even when she done kids breakfast t.v.
Strange that she got pilloried in the press for that fling yet the media were happy with cheryl Cole and Liam, she wrote recently that she couldn't even go to the shops for a pint of milk without having to do hair and make up or she would get slaughtered.

[Cataplana]

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/caroline-flack-mental-health-instagram_uk_5da59399e4b01c76560c77de?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGhcygt09D78sWWIh7pQYHV4i8R8 1VLXkcln0qAVo7755qkQ9Y1wB7zoFDkCx-8e4r3RGMSRONETX9OXfimB6kmNviATz7dIDtT-VlX3YaKBNc1LMGaGElYCF3RZ9NdV26EslIaiRmzMtWlNqVKyFz m3Hnx74-xSj0QSdtkrVWxL

Thanks very much. At least she seems to have managed to avoid hospitalisation and was resilient in trying to find her own solutions.

I'm not sure whether there will be an inquest. It would certainly go some way to explaining how this tragedy happened, as there is a lot of speculation.

The irony is that the newspapers seem to be the source of most of the information. The same newspapers which are being criticised for hounding her.

Likewise, we are supposed to accept that because she hasn't been to trial that we don't know if she beat up her boyfriend; but, we allowed to speculate on her state of mind at the time.

From where I am standing, it is pretty obvious that she did it. What is not so clear is whether mental illness was the cause, and why she was made to stand trial if it was.

As for her suicide, trying to work out why she did it is even more difficult.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/suicide-rates-rise-more-than-a-mental-health-issue-cdc-says/

[matty_f]

When the singer Chris Brown beat Rihanna he was absolutely slaughtered in the media and by people all over Twitter and still is to this date.

When Caroline Flack smashes something over her sleeping partners head and is given the same sort of hard time, the same people who gave Chris Brown abuse have now decided that everybody should have "been kind" to her.

So, what's it to be?

There's no doubting anyone taking their life is a tragedy but the different reactions to these two incidents show a massive difference in the way domestic abuse towards a man is considered compared to domestic abuse towards a woman.

She was a public figure who domestically abused her partner. It was always going to be in the papers and there's no way that'll ever change.

Having said all that, it's a massive shame that she felt this was her only way out.

I'm probably not making my point very well, but I'm struggling to find the sympathy in this situation everybody else is for someone who (allegedly) has a history of abusing more than partner and breaking her bail conditions.

I think the answer to that one is to be kind to both, rather than not being kind to Flack because we weren't to someone else?
.
You can't condone abuse, but ultimately there's something behind that abuse and a bit of understanding and humanising is more constructive than demonising people.

We can say "that person did a terrible thing" at the same time as recognising that they might need help.

I hate the culture we have just now, people just swing at folk left, right, and centre. The cancel culture as soon as someone makes a mistake is abhorrent and this is where it leads us.

[Cataplana]

I think the answer to that one is to be kind to both, rather than not being kind to Flack because we weren't to someone else?
.
You can't condone abuse, but ultimately there's something behind that abuse and a bit of understanding and humanising is more constructive than demonising people.

We can say "that person did a terrible thing" at the same time as recognising that they might need help.

I hate the culture we have just now, people just swing at folk left, right, and centre. The cancel culture as soon as someone makes a mistake is abhorrent and this is where it leads us.

Supposing the person did the terrible thing because they were just a wicked person? This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, especially not the person in this case, who seems to be the victim of all sorts judgements made on her behalf from people who support her and people who condemn her.

It often transpires that once all the facts come out, the person didn't need help, other than a period of time in jail. The fairest thing we can do is to reserve judgement until everything is known.

[Betty Boop]

Disappointing to see the footage doing the rounds of Hibs fans chanting a pathetic song about Caroline Flack. Just goes to show we have some utter numpties in our support as well.

[LaMotta]

What an idiotic and offensive post. You’ve got absolutely no idea what you’re talking about if you think someone will just kill themselves because they have a fragile ego.

:agree:

It's clear there is very little understanding of the issue from the post.

[MrRobot]

Sometimes its just better to keep your mouth shut.

:agree:

[Cataplana]

Perhaps this will shed more light on the matter: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/courts/date-set-for-inquest-into-caroline-flacks-death/ar-BB107tnO?ocid=spartanntp

[McSwanky]

Supposing the person did the terrible thing because they were just a wicked person? This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, especially not the person in this case, who seems to be the victim of all sorts judgements made on her behalf from people who support her and people who condemn her.

It often transpires that once all the facts come out, the person didn't need help, other than a period of time in jail. The fairest thing we can do is to reserve judgement until everything is known.We seem to be getting a bit off topic, but I'd be interested to hear your definition of a simply wicked person. The majority of people who commit serious crimes have been exposed to it in the past, often being a victim themselves.

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[Cataplana]

We seem to be getting a bit off topic, but I'd be interested to hear your definition of a simply wicked person. The majority of people who commit serious crimes have been exposed to it in the past, often being a victim themselves.

Sent from my HRY-LX1 using Tapatalk

I would say that it is someone who chooses to cause harm to others but has full control over their actiins.

In the classic mad or bad argument, it would distinguish them from the person who does wrong but has no control over their actions.

It is a dilemma that is often faced by the courts, and is the reason that not everyone who commits a crime faces RFE justice system.

We often try to rationalise other people's actions we don't understand by saying it is madness. However there are people in our society who do wicked things out of spite, jealousy or narcissism.

The prisons are full of people who try to use insanity as a reason for what they did. Usually a psychiatrist has disagreed with their opinion.

It's also worth considering that most people who experience trauma choose not to inflict it on others.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-men/201803/why-bad-does-not-equal-mad

[McSwanky]

I would say that it is someone who chooses to cause harm to others but has full control over their actiins.

In the classic mad or bad argument, it would distinguish them from the person who does wrong but has no control over their actions.

It is a dilemma that is often faced by the courts, and is the reason that not everyone who commits a crime faces RFE justice system.

We often try to rationalise other people's actions we don't understand by saying it is madness. However there are people in our society who do wicked things out of spite, jealousy or narcissism.

The prisons are full of people who try to use insanity as a reason for what they did. Usually a psychiatrist has disagreed with their opinion.

It's also worth considering that most people who experience trauma choose not to inflict it on others.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-men/201803/why-bad-does-not-equal-mad

Interesting article. Strangely, the three people that it chooses to highlight are Brevik, Hitler and Stalin. All of whom were beaten as children and generally had a bit of a **** childhood (to put it mildly) . Doesn't really solidify your claims there.

I get what you're trying to say, but my point is that although we may think we know what is going on with celebrities through what we read in the press etc, we really have no idea.

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[Sir David Gray]

It's nonsense to blame the media or the CPS for this case.
First, people like Flack owe their success to the media and must expect some brickbats when things go pear-shaped. Her press agent should have told her that if she didn't know already. She completely overreacted, silly thing.

Secondly, the police found a couple covered in blood after a 999 call. A court case results. As things stand the likelihood is Flack would have been acquitted or suspended sentence since her boyfriend doesn't appear to be bothered. No cause for suicide there, surely?

I am sick of putting on the national news to hear tales of fragile egos topping themselves or ranting about their sexual identity when much more important things are needing coverage. The country's going to the dogs in more ways than one.

Is this a serious post?

[Cataplana]

Interesting article. Strangely, the three people that it chooses to highlight are Brevik, Hitler and Stalin. All of whom were beaten as children and generally had a bit of a **** childhood (to put it mildly) . Doesn't really solidify your claims there.

I get what you're trying to say, but my point is that although we may think we know what is going on with celebrities through what we read in the press etc, we really have no idea.

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There is lots of information out there about forensic psychiatry. I would not say that article is anything more than an introduction.

I agree with your point completely. My point should have been clear too :just because someone does something that people think is mad, it doesn't mean they are mad.

If having a ****ty childhood was justification for anything, then the prisons would be empty. It's best to leave the psychiatry to psychiatrists, I'd say, and I don't think they judge a person's sanity based on their childhood experiences, but rather how they relate to the world now.

[calumhibee1]

I think the answer to that one is to be kind to both, rather than not being kind to Flack because we weren't to someone else?
.
You can't condone abuse, but ultimately there's something behind that abuse and a bit of understanding and humanising is more constructive than demonising people.

We can say "that person did a terrible thing" at the same time as recognising that they might need help.

I hate the culture we have just now, people just swing at folk left, right, and centre. The cancel culture as soon as someone makes a mistake is abhorrent and this is where it leads us.

It’s a nice thought but I’m not sure being kind to absolutely everyone regardless of their actions is a reasonable or realistic option.

[Cataplana]

The family have said they wanted the press to stay away yet they are feeding them stories.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/courts/caroline-flacks-family-release-unpublished-instagram-post-as-inquest-opens/ar-BB1096gw?MSCC=1581531877&ocid=spartanntp

[McSwanky]

The family have said they wanted the press to stay away yet they are feeding them stories.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/courts/caroline-flacks-family-release-unpublished-instagram-post-as-inquest-opens/ar-BB1096gw?MSCC=1581531877&ocid=spartanntp

...Or maybe they're trying to show the 'haters' that there really is a fundamental issue of bullying/harassment of a vulnerable person here? :dunno:

Interesting choice of phraseology from you by the way. Very factual.

[heretoday]

The family have said they wanted the press to stay away yet they are feeding them stories.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/courts/caroline-flacks-family-release-unpublished-instagram-post-as-inquest-opens/ar-BB1096gw?MSCC=1581531877&ocid=spartanntp

They might have done better giving her support when she needed it.
But that's the way, isn't it?

[Kato]

They might have done better giving her support when she needed it.
But that's the way, isn't it?

Did her family not support her?

[JeMeSouviens]

Without wanting to get into the specifics of this case since none of us really know this woman or her boyfriend or any of the circumstances: I would be uncomfortable with the police/prosecution services dropping assault cases on the say so of the alleged victim. It's pretty easy to imagine circumstances where pressure could be applied to "make this go away".

[calumhibee1]

Without wanting to get into the specifics of this case since none of us really know this woman or her boyfriend or any of the circumstances: I would be uncomfortable with the police/prosecution services dropping assault cases on the say so of the alleged victim. It's pretty easy to imagine circumstances where pressure could be applied to "make this go away".

:agree:

Cases like that should absolutely not be dropped because the victim has decided they don’t want to press charges.

[CallumLaidlaw]

:agree:

Cases like that should absolutely not be dropped because the victim has decided they don’t want to press charges.

The nicky butt case today is an interesting contrast.


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[Cataplana]

The nicky butt case today is an interesting contrast.


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Nicky Butt didn't hit his partner over the head with a lamp though. Maybe his offence wasn't deemed to be as serious?

[calumhibee1]

Nicky Butt didn't hit his partner over the head with a lamp though. Maybe his offence wasn't deemed to be as serious?

It has also been thrown out due to a lack of evidence. Not because his partner didn’t want to press charges.

[Cataplana]

It has also been thrown out due to a lack of evidence. Not because his partner didn’t want to press charges.

Very different then.

[MrRobot]

Nicky Butt didn't hit his partner over the head with a lamp though. Maybe his offence wasn't deemed to be as serious?

What did NB do then? Is it fact that Caroline hit her partner over the head with a lamp or is it an allegation?

[Cataplana]

What did NB do then? Is it fact that Caroline hit her partner over the head with a lamp or is it an allegation?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10990624/nicky-butt-assault-charge-no-evidence/

[MrRobot]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10990624/nicky-butt-assault-charge-no-evidence/

That article doesn't really answer either question tbh

[Smartie]

What did NB do then? Is it fact that Caroline hit her partner over the head with a lamp or is it an allegation?

It's an allegation.

Presumably any court case would have got to the bottom of what exactly happened, and would have found her to be innocent.

Sadly, any such investigation or trial is traumatic in itself but the CPS cannot just let stuff like this pass them by because the "victim" doesn't want to press charges for all of the reasons mentioned earlier in the thread.

My opinion on this is that it is a tragic accident and occurrence and little more. We're talking about a vulnerable person who was mentally ill who was put into a very difficult position. Unfortunately "fame" doesn't come without a dark and negative side. There are all the positives - the adoration, the fawning public, the recognition, the money, the chance to meet beautiful and interesting people, the chance to form relationships with them, the satisfaction of achievement in life etc etc. Unfortunately it also comes with a down side - internet trolls saying some viciously negative stuff about you, an intrusive press (whose actions are generally driven by demand from exactly the sort of people who are wringing their hands right now), the cost of failure and the pressure that everything you have could be taken from you at any moment due to a mistake on your own part or the whim of someone else.

Unfortunately you cannot cherry-pick the good and not take the bad, but you have to learn to deal with it, somehow.

The temptation when something as tragic as this happens is to look for someone to blame and some one to lash out at, but it is rarely the answer, and suggestions such as a "Caroline's law" are well-intentioned but wide of the mark.

To live in the public eye you need to be made of tough stuff and you need to know who to listen to and who to ignore. You also need to be surrounded by good people to help you, especially when times are tough.

It's not for me. One of the great blessings of being born with no discernible talent is that I am never going to have to walk the tightrope of fame - I couldn't do it. I'm not on twitter as I consider it to be an evil cesspool of negativity, anger and bitterness. I'm not all that interested in being able to communicate directly to famous people so the negatives of being involved in it drastically outweigh the positives.

Yes, we should all temper our language online and on social media and there is a line that is crossed far too often. But many of us on here will not hold back when it comes to criticising football players, and in many ways it is our right as paying punters to have our say. We may not see the harm in calling out a player we don't deem good enough to play for Hibs. On the wrong day, a professional footballer who has a sense of personal pride and achievement may take seemingly innocuous comments deeply to heart. Would we have blood on our hands if a mentally fragile footballer were to react the wrong way to "not fit to wear the shirt, heart of a pea" type comments? I've spoken to an ex-player about what it would be like to read our own amateur "marks out of 10" for their performance on a Saturday and let's just say it is a good thing Hibs.net was not around in their day.

This isn't necessarily a new issue either. Who would like to have had a Spitting Image puppet made of them? Who would have been able to handle their name being booed by their own fans when being read out pre-game? If you'd reached the height of being your national team's manager and one of the highest regarded men in the game would you have liked to have picked up a newspaper with a picture of you with a vegetable for a head?

It's a tough world out there and you need to be very careful who you listen to.

[Cataplana]

That article doesn't really answer either question tbh

Caroline's family released a post where she admitted she had hit her boyfriend over her head, but did it "by accident". I'm not quite sure how you end up with a lamp in your hand, and it hits someone else's head with enough force to cause bleeding "by accident", but that's her story. As well as that, there is a recording of a 999 call that was going to be used as well as Police bodycam footage.

In Nicky Butt's case, the police arrived to find his missus with a minor cut on her hand. That was it. So two different stories are being told.

Objectively, it sounds like what happened at Flack's house was significantly different from what happened at Butt's ex's house. More to the point, it sounds like the CPS were more confident of getting a conviction in Caroline's case.

This then raises the questions. Why didn't she just plead guilty, or why was she so afraid to go to court?

People are saying she was mentally ill, if that was the case, why did the CPS proceed? It would be normal for some sort of assessment to be done of her mental state, you would have expected her lawyer to have been on that right away. We need to wait until the inquest until we get to the bottom of this needless (IMO) and tragic death.

[Betty Boop]

Caroline's family released a post where she admitted she had hit her boyfriend over her head, but did it "by accident". I'm not quite sure how you end up with a lamp in your hand, and it hits someone else's head with enough force to cause bleeding "by accident", but that's her story. As well as that, there is a recording of a 999 call that was going to be used as well as Police bodycam footage.

In Nicky Butt's case, the police arrived to find his missus with a minor cut on her hand. That was it. So two different stories are being told.

Objectively, it sounds like what happened at Flack's house was significantly different from what happened at Butt's ex's house. More to the point, it sounds like the CPS were more confident of getting a conviction in Caroline's case.

This then raises the questions. Why didn't she just plead guilty, or why was she so afraid to go to court?

People are saying she was mentally ill, if that was the case, why did the CPS proceed? It would be normal for some sort of assessment to be done of her mental state, you would have expected her lawyer to have been on that right away. We need to wait until the inquest until we get to the bottom of this needless (IMO) and tragic death.

No 'people' are not saying that . She said herself she had a breakdown. Does the fact that she took her own life not suggest to you that she was ill ?

[Cataplana]

No 'people' are not saying that . She said herself she had a breakdown. Does the fact that she took her own life not suggest to you that she was ill ?

It's another discussion, there is so little that we know it just wouldn't be right to speculate.

As I said earlier the prisons are full of people who blame mental illness for their actions, but psychiatrists didn't agree.

Most of what I've read from mental health "experts" in the last week has pointed out that suicide is rarely due to one single reason.

It is a complex subject, and I don't think we have enough information to comment on the state of her mind.

I don't think it's right for people who don't have all the facts to jump to conclusions. We need to hear from her doctor, the paramedics and others before deciding what her mental state, when her partner was injured, or when she died.

[poolman]

Sick listening about this woman

People every day commit suicide so why is this woman getting all the publicity because she used to introduce a brainless reality show

Never heard so much sycophantic drivel for ages

[EH6 Hibby]

Sick listening about this woman

People every day commit suicide so why is this woman getting all the publicity because she used to introduce a brainless reality show

Never heard so much sycophantic drivel for ages

When I’m sick of reading about a particular topic, I generally just stop clicking on links that are clearly about the topic in question.

Similarly, the amount of people that feel the need to let everyone know their opinion on shows like Love Island is amazing. I don’t click on links to discussions on Top Gear or whatever other show some people might enjoy, and tell them I don’t like it. I just don’t watch the show, I leave it for people that enjoy it to watch and discuss at their leisure.

The reason Caroline Flack is getting so much attention is for precisely the reason you seem to be so angry about. It’s because of all the thousands of people that commit suicide every year, but are not known to the wider public. People are discussing suicide openly for once, and are looking for answers to stop others doing it in future. How is that a bad thing?

[poolman]

When I’m sick of reading about a particular topic, I generally just stop clicking on links that are clearly about the topic in question.

Similarly, the amount of people that feel the need to let everyone know their opinion on shows like Love Island is amazing. I don’t click on links to discussions on Top Gear or whatever other show some people might enjoy, and tell them I don’t like it. I just don’t watch the show, I leave it for people that enjoy it to watch and discuss at their leisure.

The reason Caroline Flack is getting so much attention is for precisely the reason you seem to be so angry about. It’s because of all the thousands of people that commit suicide every year, but are not known to the wider public. People are discussing suicide openly for once, and are looking for answers to stop others doing it in future. How is that a bad thing?


I'm not angry, I'm just pissed off that this woman gets so much publicity because of what ?

It's on the national news, newspapers, social media and just about everywhere you look.

A person has commited suicide that happened to be on telly fronting a kid's show

Get over it

[EH6 Hibby]

I'm not angry, I'm just pissed off that this woman gets so much publicity because of what ?

It's on the national news, newspapers, social media and just about everywhere you look.

A person has commited suicide that happened to be on telly fronting a kid's show

Get over it

I don’t need to get over anything thanks.

Sounds like you’re the one that needs to get over it.

She was well known and she killed herself. People are going to talk about it. Either deal with that or just stop clicking on links associated with it.

[CallumLaidlaw]

I don’t need to get over anything thanks.

Sounds like you’re the one that needs to get over it.

She was well known and she killed herself. People are going to talk about it. Either deal with that or just stop clicking on links associated with it.

Agree.
Whether folk like it or not, CF was watched by millions of people due to being involved in some of the most talked about TV shows in recent years - Bo Selecta, X Factor, Strictly Come Dancing & Love Island. As well as that she had friends on a lot of the shows currently on tv - good morning Britain, Dancing On Ice etc. In the modern world of celebrity, its news. And the whole mental health & social media thing is very relevant in today’s Britain, so really shouldn’t be ignored. And yes if someone doesn’t like a subject being discussed, why go on to that subject to discuss it? Bizarre.


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[Scouse Hibee]

I'm not angry, I'm just pissed off that this woman gets so much publicity because of what ?

It's on the national news, newspapers, social media and just about everywhere you look.

A person has commited suicide that happened to be on telly fronting a kid's show

Get over it

There’s plenty of people that can’t ‘“get over” many things in their life. If the suicide of Caroline Flack is helping publicise the issues that many face and assists in raising awareness surely that’s not a bad thing?

[poolman]

There’s plenty of people that can’t ‘“get over” many things in their life. If the suicide of Caroline Flack is helping publicise the issues that many face and assists in raising awareness surely that’s not a bad thing?

Yea, that's a good point

[EH6 Hibby]

Yea, that's a good point

So when Scouse Hibee says it, it’s a good point, but when I say it, I’m told to get over it. Nice.

[poolman]

People for some reason are distraught that someone that they never knew or talked to but hosted a stupid reality show on TV took their own life and now blaming everybody from the CPS to their next door neighbour really should have a look at themselves, she was obviously in a dark place but all this publicity and blame is, and quite frankly, way OTT

[Cataplana]

People for some reason are distraught that someone that they never knew or talked to but hosted a stupid reality show on TV took their own life and now blaming everybody from the CPS to their next door neighbour really should have a look at themselves, she was obviously in a dark place but all this publicity and blame is, and quite frankly, way OTT

It certainly is when the only information people have about what happened comes from the people they are blaming for her death.

Aside from a coroner's interim verdict, all we have to go on comes from the papers and social media. I would like the lesson that is learned to be never make assumptions, or jump to conclusions.

If anyone wants to learn more about the issues these people will give you much better information than the likes of The Sun, Daily Mail, or ITN news.

https://www.samh.org.uk/about-mental-health/suicide
http://www.sane.org.uk/sane_on_suicide
http://research.bmh.manchester.ac.uk/cmhs/research/centreforsuicideprevention/

To name but three.

[CallumLaidlaw]

I know I know, but some interesting comments from Morgan, particularly Flacks “all for throwing a mobile phone” comment and then the stuff about Jameela Jamil


https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/uk-news/5313701/piers-morgan-reveals-the-final-texts-he-sent-caroline-flack-before-her-tragic-death/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=scottishsunfacebook&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1582462022


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[wpj]

I know I know, but some interesting comments from Morgan, particularly Flacks “all for throwing a mobile phone” comment and then the stuff about Jameela Jamil


https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/uk-news/5313701/piers-morgan-reveals-the-final-texts-he-sent-caroline-flack-before-her-tragic-death/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=scottishsunfacebook&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1582462022


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Morgan is a self publicising irrelevant stain on modern life and a waste of spit. His opinions are designed to keep him in the headlines and headlights he craves so much. An odious twat of a human being without a moral compass or a spine. Why anyone ever seeks an opinion or a comment from him makes me weep. Total erse.

[MrRobot]

Caroline's family released a post where she admitted she had hit her boyfriend over her head, but did it "by accident". I'm not quite sure how you end up with a lamp in your hand, and it hits someone else's head with enough force to cause bleeding "by accident", but that's her story. As well as that, there is a recording of a 999 call that was going to be used as well as Police bodycam footage.

In Nicky Butt's case, the police arrived to find his missus with a minor cut on her hand. That was it. So two different stories are being told.

Objectively, it sounds like what happened at Flack's house was significantly different from what happened at Butt's ex's house. More to the point, it sounds like the CPS were more confident of getting a conviction in Caroline's case.

This then raises the questions. Why didn't she just plead guilty, or why was she so afraid to go to court?

People are saying she was mentally ill, if that was the case, why did the CPS proceed? It would be normal for some sort of assessment to be done of her mental state, you would have expected her lawyer to have been on that right away. We need to wait until the inquest until we get to the bottom of this needless (IMO) and tragic death.

you’re just making things up now to support your narrative. she never once admitted in the post to hitting him over the head, or using a lamp. she said there was an accident and the blood was her own.

[CallumLaidlaw]

you’re just making things up now to support your narrative. she never once admitted in the post to hitting him over the head, or using a lamp. she said there was an accident and the blood was her own.

And in fact, if there’s any truth in Piers Morgan’s version, her text to him said “all for throwing a mobile phone”.


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[MrRobot]

And in fact, if there’s any truth in Piers Morgan’s version, her text to him said “all for throwing a mobile phone”.


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exactly.

regardless of anybody’s opinion of the woman, and i didn’t particularly have one, her taking her own life really is awful. a mistake she may have made didn’t warrant the relentless harassment she received.

[Cataplana]

you’re just making things up now to support your narrative. she never once admitted in the post to hitting him over the head, or using a lamp. she said there was an accident and the blood was her own.

I'm sorry, I didn't make it up, but I accept your explanation.

I must have not read it properly. It's ironic that I have been calling on people to stick to what is known, and then do the opposite myself.

[MrRobot]

I'm sorry, I didn't make it up, but I accept your explanation.

I must have not read it properly. It's ironic that I have been calling on people to stick to what is known, and then do the opposite myself.

All good man, i've probably been guilty of the same a few times :greengrin