Man City banned from Champions League for next two seasons

[theonlywayisup]

Just been announced

[J-C]

Exit Guardiola

[BegbieHSC]

Good on UEFA tbh.

Teams like city have ruined elite football.

[blackpoolhibs]

I wonder if they can appeal? :confused:

[Tully]

Good spending is out of order ,not a level playing field as in most leagues in the world

[Lendo]

Just been announced

Have Rangers released a statement yet?

[Scouse Hibee]

Were never going to win it anyway, European minnows.

[Diclonius]

Good.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I wonder if they can appeal? :confused:

Almost certainly. Football is gubbed

[jgl07]

There isn’t a hope of this decision surviving an appeal to the CAS.

The last twitch of the old G14 group.

[The 90+2]

Man Utd to finish 5th then.

[DarlingtonHibee]

I wonder if they can appeal? :confused:

Definitely be able to appeal.

[Lancs Harp]

I doubt this will stand up in its present form.

As City put out in their press release, they anticpated this and will take it to the court of arbitration.

In their eyes its a case brought by UEFA, prosecuted by UEFA and judged by UEFA.

[04Sauzee]

Definitely be able to appeal.

They can and they will. Hope they get told to Foxtrot Oscar

[Billy Whizz]

Should be thrown out this season’s competition, if they’ve been upto no good

[Ozyhibby]

They can appeal to Cas. Hope it’s upheld though. They were caught cheating and should be banned.


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[Tobias Funke]

Good.

My feelings also. Got a feeling it’ll be overturned on appeal.

[DarlingtonHibee]

Good on UEFA tbh.

Teams like city have ruined elite football.

Chelsea, Barcelona, Real Madrid, psg and the rest

[Northernhibee]

TBF that’s only marginally decreased their chance of winning it compared to this season.

[MWHIBBIES]

Big victory for human rights. Disgusting club.

[HoboHarry]

I wonder if they can appeal? :confused:
They are saying they are appealing to CAS.....

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/51510284

[SquashedFrogg]

Big victory for human rights. Disgusting club.

Disgusting club?

[hibsbollah]

Fascinating that they were getting away with it easily until this lone Portuguese hacker basically stumbled onto some emails. PSG next please.

[Scorrie]

Fascinating that they were getting away with it easily until this lone Portuguese hacker basically stumbled onto some emails. PSG next please.

Wonder who else is at it. Could be a domino effect now. Can’t believe City are the only English club cheating given the money involved in the game now

[Since452]

Chelski won it doing the same

[MWHIBBIES]

Disgusting club?

Look at how their owners make money.

[The Modfather]

They’ll be back in the champions league before Man U 😉

[SquashedFrogg]

Look at how their owners make money.

Sorry. My mistake. I thought you said the club was disgusting.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Got to feel that City are maybe a bit of a 'picked on club' as they have came to the party only recently.
Real Madrid, Milan, Bayern and so on are regarded as European royalty, they ARE the establishment of UEFA, they control UEFA.
Why no serious bans or sanctions for Barca or Inter ect over the years?
Not saying City shouldn't be punished for wrong doing but it does stink a little that clubs that threaten the elite, the way its always been, seem to be the first ones to be hit on.

[MWHIBBIES]

Sorry. My mistake. I thought you said the club was disgusting.

They are. They facilitate them, the fans love and support them, the employees are quite happy to recieve money made from people dying. Pep the biggest hypocrite going with his protesting about Catalan natives being oppressed while taking millions from that lot.

City losing isn't just a good thing for football but also for humanity.

[CockneyRebel]

Sorry. My mistake. I thought you said the club was disgusting.


He did.

[SquashedFrogg]

They are. They facilitate them, the fans love and support them, the employees are quite happy to recieve money made from people dying. Pep the biggest hypocrite going with his protesting about Catalan natives being oppressed while taking millions from that lot.

City losing isn't just a good thing for football but also for humanity.

Fair enough. I'd say the're a great football club. Historically they've only added to English football.

The rest of you're arguement is morally impressive. But let's be honest. If Hibs were bought over by wealthy Saudis, who ploughed a fortune into us, would you be standing at the entrance protesting?

Don't blame the fans.

[SquashedFrogg]

He did.

I know.

[neil7908]

Great news. Hopefully this pushes UEFA to investigate others - no way Man City are the only ones breaking financial fair play.

[MWHIBBIES]

Fair enough. I'd say the're a great football club. Historically they've only added to English football.

The rest of you're arguement is morally impressive. But let's be honest. If Hibs were bought over by wealthy Saudis, who ploughed a fortune into us, would you be standing at the entrance protesting?

Don't blame the fans.

Yes. If Hibs were sold to criminals who happy violated laws and essentially killed people to make their money I would be protesting.

Well, until I was bundled into a van.

[SquashedFrogg]

Yes. If Hibs were sold to criminals who happy violated laws and essentially killed people to make their money I would be protesting.

Well, until I was bundled into a van.

So your saying the Man City owners kill people?

Blimey. In that case I'd be in the van with you.

My guess is ER would be packed every week without us though.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Fair enough. I'd say the're a great football club. Historically they've only added to English football.

The rest of you're arguement is morally impressive. But let's be honest. If Hibs were bought over by wealthy Saudis, who ploughed a fortune into us, would you be standing at the entrance protesting?

Don't blame the fans.

So can don’t or should not care where the money comes from?

And we laughed at Hearts/Vlad? How morally bankrupt do we need to go?

For the majority of certain fans in England you’re probably right and that’s out of “necessity” and that’s exactly why clubs need protected from themselves IMO - and it’s the football authorities that need to oversee that.

[heretoday]

Fair enough. I'd say the're a great football club. Historically they've only added to English football.

The rest of you're arguement is morally impressive. But let's be honest. If Hibs were bought over by wealthy Saudis, who ploughed a fortune into us, would you be standing at the entrance protesting?

Don't blame the fans.

I'd be at the match dressed as a camel or an oil rig or something.

[Benny Brazil]

Fascinating that they were getting away with it easily until this lone Portuguese hacker basically stumbled onto some emails. PSG next please.

Have PSG not already been done for something similar and they won their appeal at CAS?

[Newry Hibs]

Appeal. Sentence reduced to one year. Suspended for three years. Carry on.

[SquashedFrogg]

So can don’t or should not care where the money comes from?

And we laughed at Hearts/Vlad? How morally bankrupt do we need to go?

For the majority of certain fans in England you’re probably right and that’s out of “necessity” and that’s exactly why clubs need protected from themselves IMO - and it’s the football authorities that need to oversee that.

Feel free to worry about where the money comes from. We all make our own decisions. I think blaming City fans is a bit weak though. The majority of fans would love it if their club were swamped with cash.

If Ron rocked up tomorrow. Said, here's £500m but don't ask where it came from, no one would complain.

[Hibs90]

Wonder if Madrid, PSG etc will be similary punished...

[FilipinoHibs]

Hearts woukd have been banned for a about 30 years under FFP. Barca and Real should be to.

[Kato]

Were never going to win it anyway, European minnows.

Not even a real club anymore, just a financial confection. Manchester City FC were a mediocre club who played at Maine Road, the thing that calls itself Man City these days is nothing to do with football.

[hibsbollah]

Have PSG not already been done for something similar and they won their appeal at CAS?

PSG did indeed win their appeal, on a flimsy technicality which almost every observer considered as bringing the whole process into disrepute. The NY Times did an excellent investigation into this still widely available online.

[660]

Man City are a drop in the ocean. There’s several ‘super clubs’ who are equally or more abhorrent. It’s nice to see one of them punished but ultimately won’t change much.

[Ozyhibby]

Fair enough. I'd say the're a great football club. Historically they've only added to English football.

The rest of you're arguement is morally impressive. But let's be honest. If Hibs were bought over by wealthy Saudis, who ploughed a fortune into us, would you be standing at the entrance protesting?

Don't blame the fans.

I would.


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[SquashedFrogg]

I would.


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That's good. Well done you.

[hfc rd]

Good. About time I’d say. Plastic club.

[hibee316]

Feel free to worry about where the money comes from. We all make our own decisions. I think blaming City fans is a bit weak though. The majority of fans would love it if their club were swamped with cash.

If Ron rocked up tomorrow. Said, here's £500m but don't ask where it came from, no one would complain.

When I was younger I wouldn't have thought twice.

But, if i knew the money has most probably been made harming someone or something else, I would have to think very carefully how I was involved with it.

[jacomo]

Fair enough. I'd say the're a great football club. Historically they've only added to English football.

The rest of you're arguement is morally impressive. But let's be honest. If Hibs were bought over by wealthy Saudis, who ploughed a fortune into us, would you be standing at the entrance protesting?

Don't blame the fans.


I’d be protesting.

Don’t know if you’ve noticed but the world is burning. Time for people to make a stand.

[SquashedFrogg]

When I was younger I wouldn't have thought twice.

But, if i knew the money has most probably been made harming someone or something else, I would have to think very carefully how I was involved with it.

I should clarify. I don't advocate poor human rights. Anywhere. Anytime.

My amazement is that some are getting all self righteous now. I've never seen any posts previously from them about this until tonight.

Southampton and Wolves are Chinese owned. Where's the moralistic view points about those clubs, or their fans?

City with UAE, Sheffield Utd with Saudi Arabia, Everton with Iran.

That's the part the I find interesting.

*Apologies to anyone who has previously posted on here who has raised concerns about these owners and their fans.

[Scorrie]

I would.


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I’d be with you.

[MKHIBEE]

I'm expecting a defence citing "whitabootery"
Sky reported that City were appealing the punishment.Are they accepting they were guilty as charged?*

[MWHIBBIES]

I should clarify. I don't advocate poor human rights. Anywhere. Anytime.

My amazement is that some are getting all self righteous now. I've never seen any posts previously from them about this until tonight.

Southampton and Wolves are Chinese owned. Where's the moralistic view points about those clubs, or their fans?

City with UAE, Sheffield Utd with Saudi Arabia, Everton with Iran.

That's the part the I find interesting.

*Apologies to anyone who has previously posted on here who has raised concerns about these owners and their fans.

I have posted on here quite a few times about it.

[jacomo]

I should clarify. I don't advocate poor human rights. Anywhere. Anytime.

My amazement is that some are getting all self righteous now. I've never seen any posts previously from them about this until tonight.

Southampton and Wolves are Chinese owned. Where's the moralistic view points about those clubs, or their fans?

City with UAE, Sheffield Utd with Saudi Arabia, Everton with Iran.

That's the part the I find interesting.

*Apologies to anyone who has previously posted on here who has raised concerns about these owners and their fans.


You’ve chosen to be oblivious.

Hibs haven’t been owned by a dodgy repressive regime so the issue hasn’t directly affected us, but the issue has definitely come up here previously.

[SquashedFrogg]

I have posted on here quite a few times about it.

Respect then. I never saw your posts about this or the other clubs owners. China human rights gives me the fear.

Thankfully we haven't even covered the Abramovich Russia/ Israel ownership 😀

[CMurdoch]

England no longer has a top football league just a slimy soulless corporate cess pit.
Like PSG before them Manchester City will be wheeling out their high powered lawyers at CAS to argue black is white. Like everything else they will effectively buy and bully the decision in their favour.

[SquashedFrogg]

You’ve chosen to be oblivious.

Hibs haven’t been owned by a dodgy repressive regime so the issue hasn’t directly affected us, but the issue has definitely come up here previously.

Which club is owned by a 'dodgy, repressive regime'?

[SquashedFrogg]

England no longer has a top football league just a slimy, ****my soulless corporate cess pit.
Like PSG before them Manchester City will be wheeling out their high powered lawyers at CAS to argue black is white. Like everything else they will effectively buy and bully the decision in their favour.

I agree entirely with this. Some people are missing my original point. Which is fine. It happens.

[Gloucester Hibs]

I'd be at the match dressed as a camel or an oil rig or something.

😂😂👍🏻

[Ozyhibby]

Wonder if Uefa will look at Sevco’s finances next. The losses Over the last three years exceed the £25m that is supposed to trigger an investigation.


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[Vault Boy]

Could be docked points next season too.

[Lago]

The problem is I suppose that big money & sport don't mix, the money ends up corrupting the sport. It's not confined to football, you have Sarasens rugby union club cheating their way to national & European success. The Nike situation in athletics and so forth, how do you solve it, I haven't a clue.

[Captain Trips]

Are Hearts still on that self imposed CL ban?

[0762]

Are Hearts still on that self imposed CL ban?

Wait a minute. Did the Hertz not win it a couple of years back?
I remember Vlad telling the world it was only a matter of time, and they'd never be beaten by the Old Firm 5-0 again......Oh wait a minute that must have seen the Scooby Doo ending, what was the score mid-week??

[CMurdoch]

Are Hearts still on that self imposed CL ban?

2 CL bans now :greengrin

[ScottB]

May as well let these clubs spend what they want, if you’re going to allow shady billionaires (and they all are, to one extent or the other) to takeover clubs, why balk at them spending?

Doesn’t really feel like FFP exists for the small clubs either, it feels like a safety net for the ‘old money’ clubs to defend against the rise of free spending owners elsewhere.

[HendoDelivered]

Lol.... YNWA

[Hibeesmad]

Happy days

[Kato]

May as well let these clubs spend what they want, if you’re going to allow shady billionaires (and they all are, to one extent or the other) to takeover clubs, why balk at them spending?

Doesn’t really feel like FFP exists for the small clubs either, it feels like a safety net for the ‘old money’ clubs to defend against the rise of free spending owners elsewhere.Or let those clubs operate out with FIFA and the can Harlem Globetrotter themselves in a big cycle jerk.

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[neil7908]

May as well let these clubs spend what they want, if you’re going to allow shady billionaires (and they all are, to one extent or the other) to takeover clubs, why balk at them spending?

Doesn’t really feel like FFP exists for the small clubs either, it feels like a safety net for the ‘old money’ clubs to defend against the rise of free spending owners elsewhere.

I do kinda agree with you on this. Its basically just shutting up shop. FFP rules haven't done anything to stop the dominance of big clubs - Real Madrid won 3 Champions Leagues in a row!

There were so many other ways to address the issues UEFA highlighted. This seems to be just a convenient way to stop anyone breaking the dominance of the footballing elite.

[Waxy]

Similar to what hearts are doing.

[southern hibby]

May be wrong here and if I am, I’m more than happy to be corrected but.........


When will the SFA bring in FFP rules into the Scottish game. Rangers liquidated ( and still spending beyond their means ) Dundee, Hearts ( still spending beyond their means ) and Dunfermline ( twice I think ) all into administration and nothing done about it. Well that’s not exactly true we did have the rule into place that says you lost your licence and needed 4 years of audits to start in the lower division. However Sevco were allowed in with no accounts and then we had the 5 way agreement to allow Sevco to do what they want.

i really don’t mind getting beat by a team that plays better than us ( as long as I can see Hibs trying ) but what’s the point in having sportsmanship when it’s been taking away and only brought in so that it’s a token gesture?


GGTTH

[stoneyburn hibs]

It's all very well posters saying plastic club/they deserve it/disgusting club, etc etc.
If we had said owners and the success with it, no Hibs fan would bat an eyelid.

Someone is now going to say they'd be disgusted and boycott the club 😁

[hibsbollah]

May as well let these clubs spend what they want, if you’re going to allow shady billionaires (and they all are, to one extent or the other) to takeover clubs, why balk at them spending?

Doesn’t really feel like FFP exists for the small clubs either, it feels like a safety net for the ‘old money’ clubs to defend against the rise of free spending owners elsewhere.

FFP rules are very sensible. Don't spend more than you earn. If they were enforced Bury Bolton etc wouldn't have happened. So yes, FFP is for the benefit of small clubs too.

But the shadow of PSG hangs all over this like a bad smell. Mansour will do his usual whataboutery and in a way he's quite right to.

[Onion]

Similar to what hearts are doing.

Must admit, don't understand FFP rules. Hearts are being supported by hidden benefactor injections of capital every year. If Man City did the same, would they be deemed to be breaching the rules and fined by UEFA ?

[Alan62]

It's all very well posters saying plastic club/they deserve it/disgusting club, etc etc.
If we had said owners and the success with it, no Hibs fan would bat an eyelid.

Someone is now going to say they'd be disgusted and boycott the club [emoji16]

No, you’re wrong about this. I would not want my club supported by dirty money and would walk away if it was.

The current version of Manchester City is a weird Stepford Wife compared to its former self. Every Manchester City fan must know this and if they accept it, they’re complicit in the deception.


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[ScottB]

FFP rules are very sensible. Don't spend more than you earn. If they were enforced Bury Bolton etc wouldn't have happened. So yes, FFP is for the benefit of small clubs too.

But the shadow of PSG hangs all over this like a bad smell. Mansour will do his usual whataboutery and in a way he's quite right to.

Well, yes and no.

In Scottish terms, it’d be like if Ron started throwing cash at Hibs, suddenly becoming a real threat to the Old Firm and the SFA responded by bringing in FFP laws that would limit Hibs spending and likely not the Old Firm’s, due to their revenue being much higher than ours.

Spending what you’ve got, sure. But if you’ve got an owner willing to pump in money, why not? As said, FFP pretty much keeps the clubs that are currently ‘big’ safe from any smaller / upstart ones from stepping up. Man City can’t spend £200 million on players as they don’t have the revenue, but Man United or Real Madrid can?

[ScottB]

Must admit, don't understand FFP rules. Hearts are being supported by hidden benefactor injections of capital every year. If Man City did the same, would they be deemed to be breaching the rules and fined by UEFA ?

I think that’s exactly what they did. Their Sheikh owner effectively funnelled the club money through inflated sponsorship deals with companies he largely controls. I don’t think you can just give a club you own however much you like, and there are rules governing pretty much everything.

I would suspect if Scotland adopted similar rules, Hearts would fall foul of them.

[Billy Whizz]

With now Chelsea and Man City now found guilty. Should the coefficient points not been taking away from England’s total

[Keith_M]

As others have pointed out, the FFP rules are meaningless unless they are applied equally to all clubs.

PSG got away with it and other mega-rich clubs have even avoided being investigated at all.

[hibsbollah]

The most insidious development of all, organisations owning multiple clubs, isn't being investigated at all. Red Bull Leipzig and Red Bull Salzburg have managed to make the case that they are owned by separate entities :rolleyes:

[ZAGREB RED]

Intriguing to see if this verdict stands or if City appeal and get it greatly reduced to a smaller fine and a suspended sentence or similar.
It will probably rumble on for a while either way.

[HoboHarry]

Intriguing to see if this verdict stands or if City appeal and get it greatly reduced to a smaller fine and a suspended sentence or similar.
It will probably rumble on for a while either way.
It can't rumble on that long, if they are out next season then some other club will know they are in Europe.....

[Swedish hibee]

Controversial, but I think outwith Barcelona Pep cares more about the leagues than Europe. Anyone else agree?

[HoboHarry]

Controversial, but I think outwith Barcelona Pep cares more about the leagues than Europe. Anyone else agree?

I don't. Despite all their claims to the contrary last season, I think Man City would cheerfully have given up the league title in exchange for the champions League crown....

[Phil MaGlass]

I think City will take this to court and will be in the champs league next season

[Haymaker]

Controversial, but I think outwith Barcelona Pep cares more about the leagues than Europe. Anyone else agree?

Nope.

[emerald green]

If Man City, or any other club, is found and proven to be cheating and breaking the rules, then they deserve every punishment that comes their way.

[hibsbollah]

Controversial, but I think outwith Barcelona Pep cares more about the leagues than Europe. Anyone else agree?

I think for almost all top managers, winning the Champions league is the ultimate, more than a domestic title. The only exception to this might be for a manager of a big club with a historical domestic hoodoo like Klopp, or Conte at Inter.

[Green_one]

Many seem to think that an appeal will nullify the sentence but what City have done is pretty blatant and arrogant

I can see some significant impacts remaining on them. Plus a shot across the bows of other offenders

The common issue of overspending will persist

[NAE NOOKIE]

Tell the 30 odd thousand who stuck with Man City all the way into division 3 that they are a 'plastic club' ... absolute bloody nonsense.

As for UEFA's so called financial fair play, its nothing of the kind. It's inevitable bottom line is that by its very nature it keeps the big clubs at the top table and leaves 90% of Europe's clubs forever with their noses pressed against the window with no chance of ever joining the party, there is nothing fair about that.

Stopping clubs from borrowing or spending money they cant afford to pay back or don't have is fine. Extending that rule to preventing super rich owners from freely pumping in their own money ( so long as it isnt shown as a loan on the club's books ) certainly isn't. In what world could a club like PSG ever hope to compete with Real Madrid financially, in what world could Man City ever hope to compete with Man Utd financially, in what world could Hibs ever hope to compete with Celtic financially ... the list of examples goes on and on and on.

If UEFA were so concerned with fair play they would bring in an NFL style budget cap at a level which would bring a number of decent sized clubs into the fold .... a budget level which would put Hamburg into the same ball park as Bayern Munich or enable Roma to compete with Juventus for players, or Newcastle to compete with Liverpool. In the NFL you can pay your quarterback 20 million a year, but if you do that it gives you less to pay a running back or wide receiver coz you've blown a quarter of your budget .... in football that could mean you can pay a striker 10 million a year, but you can only bring in a left back willing to play for 1 million a year.

Whatever the case, what UEFA call financial fair play is an utter joke and I hope Man City take them to a proper court and kick their arse .... I'll leave with three little words:

JEAN MARC BOSMAN

[Hibeesmad]

Who was the last player that City sold for more than £30m?

[MWHIBBIES]

Tell the 30 odd thousand who stuck with Man City all the way into division 3 that they are a 'plastic club' ... absolute bloody nonsense.

As for UEFA's so called financial fair play, its nothing of the kind. It's inevitable bottom line is that by its very nature it keeps the big clubs at the top table and leaves 90% of Europe's clubs forever with their noses pressed against the window with no chance of ever joining the party, there is nothing fair about that.

Stopping clubs from borrowing or spending money they cant afford to pay back or don't have is fine. Extending that rule to preventing super rich owners from freely pumping in their own money ( so long as it isnt shown as a loan on the club's books ) certainly isn't. In what world could a club like PSG ever hope to compete with Real Madrid financially, in what world could Man City ever hope to compete with Man Utd financially, in what world could Hibs ever hope to compete with Celtic financially ... the list of examples goes on and on and on.

If UEFA were so concerned with fair play they would bring in an NFL style budget cap at a level which would bring a number of decent sized clubs into the fold .... a budget level which would put Hamburg into the same ball park as Bayern Munich or enable Roma to compete with Juventus for players, or Newcastle to compete with Liverpool. In the NFL you can pay your quarterback 20 million a year, but if you do that it gives you less to pay a running back or wide receiver coz you've blown a quarter of your budget .... in football that could mean you can pay a striker 10 million a year, but you can only bring in a left back willing to play for 1 million a year.

Whatever the case, what UEFA call financial fair play is an utter joke and I hope Man City take them to a proper court and kick their arse .... I'll leave with three little words:

JEAN MARC BOSMAN
Do some digging into City and how they actually make money and how they actually operate. It's nothing to do with uefa trying to keep them down. They have been blatantly cheating.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Do some digging into City and how they actually make money and how they actually operate. It's nothing to do with uefa trying to keep them down. They have been blatantly cheating.

I'm not particularly bothered about defending Man City, short of having a great deal of sympathy for fans who have been supporting the club all their lives being lumped in with the hoards of glory hunters their success has inevitably attracted I am ambivalent to them at best.

Man City might be the focus, but my beef is with the whole concept of what UEFA regard as a system promoting 'fair play' in European football. If somebody can explain to me how a system which ties a club's ability to field a team to it's ability to generate income through trading will do anything other than ensure the Barcelonas and Real Madrids of this world dominate football forever I'm all ears.

Such a system far from promoting 'fairness' is the death knell for competition. Even the mighty Ajax have been relegated to also rans because the market they operate in and their mediocre worldwide appeal is far smaller than the Spanish and English giants, they could never hope to generate the sort of income these clubs can.

Here's why UEFA's 'fair play' model is counter productive. In the 80s Aberdeen were a phenomenon, dominating domestically and even winning a European trophy ... where did it get them? did that grow their brand to a club guaranteed even 20,000 at every game? ... no it didn't, they burned brightly and then lost their best players and manager to historically bigger clubs with more fans and more money and the few glory hunters they did attract gradually drifted away leaving practically no legacy. They are the poster boy of how incredibly difficult it is to overcome the historical dominance of the usual suspects by simply being well run or having on field success, and yet UEFA in their wisdom think that's how you will increase competitiveness in their competitions.

Unless the door is left open for an individual or business with money to burn to chuck money at a club then look forward to every league in Europe being dominated by the usual handful of clubs for ever more, and to the so called 'champions league' being dominated by the giants .... It always was, but at least before mega TV money and gigantic sponsorship deals a relative minnow had a chance, but not now. If that's not true answer me this ..... Where are the Malmos, the Nottingham Forests, the Celics, the Benficas, the Red Star Belgrades?

I'm all for fair play .... But if you are serious about it make it happen by bringing in a system which levels the playing field as they do in the USA, not by bringing in a system which does nothing more than cement in place to ability of Europe's giants to dominate football domestically and internationally.