Official Site: AGM DATE CONFIRMED

[RSS Bot]

More... (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/10542)

[Allant1981]

Should be interesting

[Vault Boy]

Good, that will get the accounts and RG's plans addressed all in one go.

Hopefully it'll paint a clearer picture and some folk can move on to new topics.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Should be interesting

Interested to hear the plans, looking forward to this one

[The 90+2]

Anyone got the contract for selling popcorn?

[Hibbyradge]

Shocking. Outrageous.

[Peevemor]

Anyone got the contract for selling popcorn?Whoever gets it, other clubs' popcorn will be better.

[Allant1981]

Anyone know who I need to contact at the club, I have lost my share certificate and dont know the number so cant attend unless I get it sorted but not sure who at the club would deal with this

[PaulSmith]

Interested to hear the plans, looking forward to this one

I’m with you on this BH, it’s been a worthwhile topic discussing/speculating what plans our new foreign owner has for our club on this popular Hibs forum and it will be great to now see the detail.

I’m very much looking forward to what will be an exciting time for the club.

[The 90+2]

Whoever gets it, other clubs' popcorn will be better.

:greengrin

[Real Emerald]

Hopefully some clarity and plans although AGM’s tend to be by the book and “we'll get back to you on that question” if the bowling club is any reference. 😊

[Stuart93]

Will this not be the accounts for the year before RG arrived?

[Power]

Anyone know who I need to contact at the club, I have lost my share certificate and dont know the number so cant attend unless I get it sorted but not sure who at the club would deal with this

Will ping you a PM ✅

[The 90+2]

Will this not be the accounts for the year before RG arrived?

Yeah.

[Allant1981]

Will ping you a PM ✅

Got your message cheers

[Stuart93]

Yeah.

Thought so. So won’t really reveal what’s happened financially since he’s came in

Very good opportunity to find out more about his vision

[Diclonius]

Stupid question most likely, but are fully paid up members of HSL shareholders?

[Hibbyradge]

Will ping you a PM ✅

Keiran, I'm in the same boat. I'll have a more in depth look for my certificate, but what should I do if I can't find it?

I'd like to book my train from York and accommodation with some certainty that I'll be allowed in!

[Hibbyradge]

Stupid question most likely, but are fully paid up members of HSL shareholders?

No.

Someone from HSL will be there on your behalf.

[CloudSquall]

And here.....we.....go......

[Onion]

Hopefully worth the wait :greengrin

[GloryGlory]

Will this not be the accounts for the year before RG arrived?

I notice the balance sheet date is given as 2 July 2019, so that encompasses the takeover date of 1 July. Hibs must have decided to extend the financial period by a couple of days, so the balance sheet should reflect the new share structure and the repayment of loan debt.

[blackpoolhibs]

Stupid question most likely, but are fully paid up members of HSL shareholders?


I cant believe there's not some kind of loyalty scheme for this? :wink:

[The Spaceman]

Think I will head along to this one :aok:

[CockneyRebel]

[QUOTE=allant1981;6076094]Anyone know who I need to contact at the club, I have lost my share certificate and dont know the number so cant attend unless I get it sorted but not sure who at the club would deal with this[/QUOTE


Don't think you need to contact anyone as your name will be on the shareholders list. I have shares and they sent me a pack inviting me to the meeting and all the info I needed. I never contacted them, the pack just arrived.

[CockneyRebel]

I cant believe there's not some kind of loyalty scheme for this? :wink:


You naughty man.

[Hibbyradge]

[QUOTE=allant1981;6076094]Anyone know who I need to contact at the club, I have lost my share certificate and dont know the number so cant attend unless I get it sorted but not sure who at the club would deal with this[/QUOTE


Don't think you need to contact anyone as your name will be on the shareholders list. I have shares and they sent me a pack inviting me to the meeting and all the info I needed. I never contacted them, the pack just arrived.

👍

[brog]

I notice the balance sheet date is given as 2 July 2019, so that encompasses the takeover date of 1 July. Hibs must have decided to extend the financial period by a couple of days, so the balance sheet should reflect the new share structure and the repayment of loan debt.

Pretty much what i suggested some time back. Makes sense & helps explain the delay.

[malcolm]

[QUOTE=gloryhunter;6076177]

👍

If you got an invite last year you’ll get one this year.. if you didn’t then you may not have advised a change of address.

Anyway it will be the most attended ever I think

[jacomo]

Good, that will get the accounts and RG's plans addressed all in one go.

Hopefully it'll paint a clearer picture and some folk can move on to new topics.


This is not the end.
This is not even the beginning of the end.
But it might be the end of the beginning.

[Allant1981]

[QUOTE=allant1981;6076094]Anyone know who I need to contact at the club, I have lost my share certificate and dont know the number so cant attend unless I get it sorted but not sure who at the club would deal with this[/QUOTE


Don't think you need to contact anyone as your name will be on the shareholders list. I have shares and they sent me a pack inviting me to the meeting and all the info I needed. I never contacted them, the pack just arrived.

Yip never thought about that at the time, I've emailed to get a new one sent out anyway

[JohnMcM]

I cant believe there's not some kind of loyalty scheme for this? :wink:

:slipper:

[offshorehibby]

Typical, i’m away for this one would have loved to here RG’s plan.

[matty_f]

Have the invitations gone out for this yet? I haven't got one yet.

Ignore that, just read the article - packs will be sent in advance.

[Keith_M]

Woohoo!



:clapper: :nanasplit: :partyhibb :cheers:





Now just wait until after the AGM, when the complaints start coming in about what was/wasn't said

:grr: :bitchy: :take that https://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/fire_small.png :chop:

[steelendhibs]

Is it worth making the trip after work from Glenrothes, or do they just regurgitate what is in the mail they post out?

[danhibees1875]

Is it worth making the trip after work from Glenrothes, or do they just regurgitate what is in the mail they post out?

Do you like a free pie? (Maybe a silly question for a Fifer :wink: ).

I'm not sure I'd travel so far just for the AGM - but I do quite enjoy them. You tend to get a decent insight into things around the club and hopefully this time the general plan for going forward... However, it will all be written up on here within an hour I'd imagine.

[Iggy Pope]

Is it worth making the trip after work from Glenrothes, or do they just regurgitate what is in the mail they post out?

There’s a boy from Darlington been all over this for months by the way!

[hibbydad]

The accounts should be in our hands today to meet the statutory requirement

[DaveF]

The accounts should be in our hands today to meet the statutory requirement

Just landed at my door.

[hibbydad]

Just landed at my door.
I don't think my post has come yet

[DarlingtonHibee]

There’s a boy from Darlington been all over this for months by the way!

Ha ha mate lol

All booked up

Planning a trip down?

[FilipinoHibs]

Just landed at my door.

Not up on the companies house website yet.

[Caversham Green]

Not up on the companies house website yet.

They can't lodge them at Companies House until they been approved by the AGM.

[Hibbyradge]

Ha ha mate lol

All booked up

Planning a trip down?

Keep me in mind. That would be a proper hooley!

[hibbydad]

How do the accounts look I am still waiting on mine

[DaveF]

How do the accounts look I am still waiting on mine

It's a green A4 sized booklet. Lots of numbers in it which I don't understand.

[DaveF]

How do the accounts look I am still waiting on mine

Says loss of 748k but then mentions player sales and pre tax profit of 2.2m

Sorry, I don't understand the finer details so that's all I can do for now.

[Cataplana]

Sums the whole thing up for me.

[Onceinawhile]

Surprised the club haven't mentioned it on the website, or the een on theirs.

[FilipinoHibs]

They can't lodge them at Companies House until they been approved by the AGM.Ok thanks. Can shareholders give a summary on here?

[brianmc]

Operating loss of £748k

£2.8 million gain on player trading

Pre tax profit of £2 million

Debt cleared

£5.5 million cash in Bank

[Bostonhibby]

Operating loss of £748k

£2.8 million gain on player trading

Pre tax profit of £2 million

Debt cleared

£5.5 million cash in BankAbout as healthy as I can remember us being. Just hope we don't blow it all on infrastructure and anything else that doesn't strengthen the team on the pitch directly.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[snedzuk]

Operating loss of £748k

£2.8 million gain on player trading

Pre tax profit of £2 million

Debt cleared

£5.5 million cash in Bank

Obv. Ponzi scheme

[Gloucester Hibs]

Operating loss of £748k

£2.8 million gain on player trading

Pre tax profit of £2 million

Debt cleared

£5.5 million cash in Bank

£2.8M on player trading, would that all be for SJM (initial fee plus possible promotion bonus?) Seems decent, with hopefully still a sell-on % still to come?

[Vault Boy]

Operating loss of £748k

£2.8 million gain on player trading

Pre tax profit of £2 million

Debt cleared

£5.5 million cash in Bank

Very healthy.

[Peevemor]

Very healthy.

A £700k+ trading loss can't really be described as healthy - we won't make millions from player trading every year.

[Onceinawhile]

loss of c. £750K is a bit worrying.

Were our attendances not pretty good that year? Though I don't think we made Hampden.

Other thing to note is we'll be £500K better off per year with no debt repayments, so a similar year would only see a £250K loss.

[jacomo]

A £700k+ trading loss can't really be described as healthy - we won't make millions from player trading every year.


Indeed but I suppose the cash in the bank is the healthy bit... gives the club space to gamble a little bit more (eg a transfer fee for a striker who has never played in Scotland before).

[Smartie]

Anything likely to be attributed to a payoff to Lennon?

[Sergio sledge]

A £700k+ trading loss can't really be described as healthy - we won't make millions from player trading every year.

I wonder how much the Lennon situation cost?

Does gain on player trading include any fees we might have paid out in that time? We signed Horgan and Doidge for transfer fees and rumour has it that Milligan was expensive, perhaps a hefty signing on fee. Scott Allan was also signed and may have needed a signing on fee.

Then there was the huge number of loan deals in that time which may have required loan fees. MacLaren, Agyepong, Gauld, Hyndman, Omeonga, McNulty...

[brianmc]

Anything likely to be attributed to a payoff to Lennon?

I imagine that's included in the operating loss?

[04Sauzee]

How much was the unexpected layout for new cctv?

[ancient hibee]

How much was the unexpected layout for new cctv?

That will be next year's accounts/

[Spike Mandela]

No anonymous benefactors???:grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

[Onceinawhile]

I imagine that's included in the operating loss?

Yup, but presumably we'll have a similar amount due to Heckingbottom for this year's accounts as well.

[ancient hibee]

The £700K loss included nearly £1Million for depreciation of the fixed assets(ground etc) and the annual charge of writing down the value of players contracts (so that the value is nil when the contract ends).Staff wages were up £1M and general expenses up £1.4M (mainly Euro travel and ground and ET maintenance.All the price of success.

[Hibs4185]

£750k loss isn’t too bad especially when it included £500k+ debt repayment to STF. I don’t think these accounts will show the bonus for SJM and promotion.

In the end it’s a £2 million profit which is unheard of outside of Celtic, which should be celebrated.

Very healthy position. Especially with such a large cash balance.

Anyone know what turnover was?

[Golden Bear]

I'm just reading Ron's accompanying letter now:-

"As part of my acquiring the major shareholding, we paid off the Club's £2.5 million mortgage and put a further £1.25 million into the Club's Bank Account . As a result, we ended the year in a very strong financial position, with a cash balance of £5.5m and no debt."

"It's worth noting that without the McGinn money the Club would have made a significant loss"

"I've spent the last 6 months learning, asking many questions, and taking a good look at all aspects of the Club, - working closely with Leeann , the Board and the Management team in developing a strategic plan to guide our vision and actions for the next several years. At the forthcoming shareholders meeting I will share the vision we have created for the Club. We're excited about it, and I hope you will be too. Look forward to seeing you at Easter Road Stadium on February 26th"

It all sound very upbeat right now.

:thumbsup:

[Chorley Hibee]

Forgive my ignorance, but shouldn't the pre-tax profit of £2 million account for everything (lennon, cctv, anything else)?

How do we go from £2 million profit to -£750k purely on tax?

[Onceinawhile]

The £700K loss included nearly £1Million for depreciation of the fixed assets(ground etc) and the annual charge of writing down the value of players contracts (so that the value is nil when the contract ends).Staff wages were up £1M and general expenses up £1.4M (mainly Euro travel and ground and ET maintenance.All the price of success.

That's a large wedge of depreciation, but I suppose if fixed assets are say £20m; it's only 5%.

I assume it's straight line deduction.

[Peevemor]

The £700K loss included nearly £1Million for depreciation of the fixed assets(ground etc) and the annual charge of writing down the value of players contracts (so that the value is nil when the contract ends).Staff wages were up £1M and general expenses up £1.4M (mainly Euro travel and ground and ET maintenance.All the price of success.

Why would the fixed assets depreciate by so much in 12 months? Preparation for the saale to RG? Tax "management"?

[04Sauzee]

That will be next year's accounts/

Cheers Ancient

[Cataplana]

How will this effect the quality of chips we are being offered?

[ancient hibee]

Why would the fixed assets depreciate by so much in 12 months? Preparation for the saale to RG? Tax "management"?

The fixed asset depreciation charge was just under £600K-last year just over £600K-in other words no change.

[Onceinawhile]

Why would the fixed assets depreciate by so much in 12 months? Preparation for the saale to RG? Tax "management"?

Depreciation isn't allowable for tax purposes anyway.

[Peevemor]

The fixed asset depreciation charge was just under £600K-last year just over £600K-in other words no change.

OK cheers!


Depreciation isn't allowable for tax purposes anyway.

Ha! That'd be too easy.

[Rocky]

We need to bear in mind that the £5.5m in the bank is primarily made up of season ticket money that then needs to cover expenses (wages / maintenance etc) right through till the next year's season ticket money comes in). It isn't just a wedge of cash that's available to be spent.

[HoboHarry]

No anonymous benefactors???:grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:
I'd settle for CWG coming back myself and explaining this gobbledygook.....

[ancient hibee]

In his letter to shareholders Ron Gordon says "surprised at how many clubs in Scotland aim to just break even.......strong and sustainable club can only be built on a strong business------generate profit to reinvest in the team...........more success = more supporters..............progress based on generating funds to reinvest making team stronger..................hope I've demonstrated that I am prepared to invest in taking Club forward.................important foundational steps but prepared to invest further whether in players and matchday experience".
All very promising and will share vision at AGM.

[Rocky]

In his letter to shareholders Ron Gordon says "surprised at how many clubs in Scotland aim to just break even.......strong and sustainable club can only be built on a strong business------generate profit to reinvest in the team...........more success = more supporters..............progress based on generating funds to reinvest making team stronger..................hope I've demonstrated that I am prepared to invest in taking Club forward.................important foundational steps but prepared to invest further whether in players and matchday experience".
All very promising and will share vision at AGM.

I don't really understand the point he's making about breaking even. If he intends to reinvest all profits into club then the net result of that is breaking even too, no?

The only difference I can see is in time horizon, i.e. at the moment we project how much cash we're going to have for the season and invest it all during the season, hence break even by the time accounts are prepared. Is he saying we're now going to aim to make profits and hold on to them for a while before investing? Stick cash away each year with a view to building a helipad some time in the future?

Say he wants to make £500k profit a year to fund a major investment in the future - if so then we're no better off in the short term than we were with the mortgage - it's still £500k less to spend on the pitch.

[Vault Boy]

A £700k+ trading loss can't really be described as healthy - we won't make millions from player trading every year.

We won't be trading at that kind of loss every year either. Debt free and £5m+ in liquid funds is healthy.

[ancient hibee]

I don't really understand the point he's making about breaking even. If he intends to reinvest all profits into club then the net result of that is breaking even too, no?

The only difference I can see is in time horizon, i.e. at the moment we project how much cash we're going to have for the season and invest it all during the season, hence break even by the time accounts are prepared. Is he saying we're now going to aim to make profits and hold on to them for a while before investing? Stick cash away each year with a view to building a helipad some time in the future?

Say he wants to make £500k profit a year to fund a major investment in the future - if so then we're no better off in the short term than we were with the mortgage - it's still £500k less to spend on the pitch.

I think you're over complicating and confusing yourself.If you take it year by year you don't spend it all as you get it.You make a profit in year 1 and reinvest it in year 2 from a position of strength .This creates a bigger profit and you reinvest it in year 3 and so on.Break even means marking time and going nowhere.As the year end is June you don't hang on to profits long if you up the player intake the following month do you.If you make £500K more and spend it it's hardly having £500K less to spend on the pitch if we never had it previously to spend.

[Since452]

Exciting stuff to come by the sounds of it

[Hibs90]

Operating loss, can someone explain what the 750k figure includes? Is it STF repayment plus other bits and bobs? The departure of Lennon and co? CCTV upgrade etc?

No debt and good cash balance though. Very healthy starting position for Ron

[Rocky]

I think you're over complicating and confusing yourself.If you take it year by year you don't spend it all as you get it.You make a profit in year 1 and reinvest it in year 2 from a position of strength .This creates a bigger profit and you reinvest it in year 3 and so on.Break even means marking time and going nowhere.As the year end is June you don't hang on to profits long if you up the player intake the following month do you.If you make £500K more and spend it it's hardly having £500K less to spend on the pitch if we never had it previously to spend.

If you make £500k more and spend it you've increased income (and expenses), not profits. You're still breaking even. So the only thing that changes in your scenario is that you don't spend that income until the next season, instead of projecting it and spending it in current season.

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm absolutely in favour of increasing income in order to be able to spend it on the pitch, and I'm expecting to see some good proposals on that point at the AGM. I just don't see what he's driving at by wanting to be profit making instead of breaking even.

[Onceinawhile]

Operating loss, can someone explain what the 750k figure includes? Is it STF repayment plus other bits and bobs?

It includes all our income, less all our expenses - including the debt repayments (£500K) and the lennon pay off (£???) as well as items like depreciation that aren't actual cash expenditure.

Without the debt figure next year, we should be looking quite a bit healthier and, hopefully, the Hecky pay off is less than the lennon one. So the loss should hopefully be substantially less next year.

[Hibs90]

It includes all our income, less all our expenses - including the debt repayments (£500K) and the lennon pay off (£???) as well as items like depreciation that aren't actual cash expenditure.

Without the debt figure next year, we should be looking quite a bit healthier and, hopefully, the Hecky pay off is less than the lennon one. So the loss should hopefully be substantially less next year.

Okay cheers. So in a healthy position. So from the 5.5m balance on 2nd July, you could include Hecky's pay off, CCTV upgrade, new signings etc to come off on this years.


All about pushing on now, on the pitch and commercially. Time for some sporting ambition.

[Hibs4185]

I’ve owned a few businesses and the profit or loss isn’t where you really get a feel for the health of a business. Accounting practices and being good with numbers can skew the end result quite a bit.

The cash balance, the assets of the business, no debts, healthy(ish)turnover, show the club is in very good condition.

Maybe not as good as I thought it would be admittedly after STF comments before walking away but none the less absolutely no worries.

Ps RG must be well satisfied. Imagine buying a business for £5-6 million and it has that sitting in a bank account available. Plus £20 million in assets. Pretty safe investment so hopefully we will be impressed with his vision

[CockneyRebel]

I don't really understand the point he's making about breaking even. If he intends to reinvest all profits into club then the net result of that is breaking even too, no?

The only difference I can see is in time horizon, i.e. at the moment we project how much cash we're going to have for the season and invest it all during the season, hence break even by the time accounts are prepared. Is he saying we're now going to aim to make profits and hold on to them for a while before investing? Stick cash away each year with a view to building a helipad some time in the future?
Say he wants to make £500k profit a year to fund a major investment in the future - if so then we're no better off in the short term than we were with the mortgage - it's still £500k less to spend on the pitch.
This will depend on what the investment is and how it benefits the club - it's not like 500k chucked down a hole. The mortgage is gone now and out of the equation so that 500k is now available every season.

[Since452]

£5 million in the bank, no debt and assets of £20 odd million. Has the club ever been in a stronger financial position?

[Peevemor]

£5 million in the bank, no debt and assets of £20 odd million. Has the club ever been in a stronger financial position?

But can Ron steer a submarine through the Baltic Sea?

[CockneyRebel]

If you make £500k more and spend it you've increased income (and expenses), not profits. You're still breaking even. So the only thing that changes in your scenario is that you don't spend that income until the next season, instead of projecting it and spending it in current season.

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm absolutely in favour of increasing income in order to be able to spend it on the pitch, and I'm expecting to see some good proposals on that point at the AGM. I just don't see what he's driving at by wanting to be profit making instead of breaking even.


To improve year on year means you usually have to spend more so you have to make a profit to be able to spend more. Spending profit to improve the business is not "breaking even" it's reinvesting. If it's done right then the reinvestment will increase profits.

[Rocky]

[/B]
This will depend on what the investment is and how it benefits the club - it's not like 500k chucked down a hole. The mortgage is gone now and out of the equation so that 500k is now available every season.

The point I'm making is that in order for it to be profit, by definition we can't have spent it. Suppose we earn £10m a year now, and expenses are £10m, so we break even. We now save £500k a year on mortgage so expenses are down to £9.5m. BUT we aim to make a £500k profit. So we still only have £9.5m of our £10m to spend, but come next July we have an extra £500k in the bank. Therefore in the short term nothing has changed.

[The 90+2]

The accounts look very good reading.

[Hibs4185]

£5 million in the bank, no debt and assets of £20 odd million. Has the club ever been in a stronger financial position?

Absolutely not! I think us fans deserve a pat on the back! Cheerleaders and free hot dogs will do Ron!

[Caversham Green]

Forgive my ignorance, but shouldn't the pre-tax profit of £2 million account for everything (lennon, cctv, anything else)?

How do we go from £2 million profit to -£750k purely on tax?

You're looking at it the wrong way round I think.

We made a £750k loss before taking into account the player sales, so profit after player sales id £2m.

[Hibs4185]

The accounts must be good. Sickback has nothing to say about them

[Chorley Hibee]

You're looking at it the wrong way round I think.

We made a £750k loss before taking into account the player sales, so profit after player sales id £2m.

Thanks Caversham, that makes sense now.

It's been a long day! 🙈

[hibee-boys]

Surely the strength of our liquidity position would be better understood if we knew (not sure if the accounts comment on this) how much of the £5 million was due to be paid out on wages/expenses during the season. It's a bit like us getting paid our annual salary in July as opposed to monthly, it's a false position. Appreciate that we'll generate revenue through the year but i'd be interested to know how much of that £5 million last July was required working capital/cash flow for the season ahead thus what is truly surplus.

[Caversham Green]

The point I'm making is that in order for it to be profit, by definition we can't have spent it. Suppose we earn £10m a year now, and expenses are £10m, so we break even. We now save £500k a year on mortgage so expenses are down to £9.5m. BUT we aim to make a £500k profit. So we still only have £9.5m of our £10m to spend, but come next July we have an extra £500k in the bank. Therefore in the short term nothing has changed.

Re this and a couple of others, the £500k payments were purely a balance sheet entry and didn't affect profits - if we had exactly the same trading results this year we'd still show a £750k operating loss, but we would have an extra £500k to spend.

I hope Ron's point about making profits is about growth - i.e. making a profit this year gives you more to spend next year, which should produce greater profits and give us more to spend in the year after next and so on. It's really down to good management and spending wisely.

[Keith_M]

No mention of the new stadium?

:dunno:











:duck:

[DaveF]

I'm sure someone on sickbag has posted 'tick tock'

[Rocky]

Re this and a couple of others, the £500k payments were purely a balance sheet entry and didn't affect profits - if we had exactly the same trading results this year we'd still show a £750k operating loss, but we would have an extra £500k to spend.

I hope Ron's point about making profits is about growth - i.e. making a profit this year gives you more to spend next year, which should produce greater profits and give us more to spend in the year after next and so on. It's really down to good management and spending wisely.

I'm still of the view that projecting current year income well and spending it within the year is preferable to turning a profit (on which tax is payable) and spending it in a future year. Unless we're saving it for capital projects in the future I guess.

[Caversham Green]

Surely the strength of our liquidity position would be better understood if we knew (not sure if the accounts comment on this) how much of the £5 million was due to be paid out on wages/expenses during the season. It's a bit like us getting paid our annual salary in July as opposed to monthly, it's a false position. Appreciate that we'll generate revenue through the year but i'd be interested to know how much of that £5 million last July was required working capital/cash flow for the season ahead thus what is truly surplus.

It's really all for the next season's (i.e. now the current season) expenses and it will be topped up by monthly revenue. It will include a fair chunk of season ticket sales - which will be reflected in the deferred income figure in creditors. That's the same for every club every season, which is why Hearts accounts look dire at first glance - they had less than £600k left in the bank out of £5.2m ST sales.

[Keith_M]

I'm sure someone on sickbag has posted 'tick tock'



Do clocks even make that noise any more?

[Caversham Green]

I'm still of the view that projecting current year income well and spending it within the year is preferable to turning a profit (on which tax is payable) and spending it in a future year. Unless we're saving it for capital projects in the future I guess.

It's very difficult to plan for break even in football and can lead to the boom and bust pattern we've seen in the past - it could also be seen by some as 'unambitious'. The problem in Scottish football is that there is a very definite glass(gow) ceiling and despite their current league performances Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen are very close to it. I hope Ron isn't going to be too ambitious.

[hibby6270]

The accounts must be good. Sickback has nothing to say about them

That’s because they’re not privy to the actual information we’ve had drop though our letterboxes this morning.
Once it’s announced in the press and on tv/radio, all Sickback will pick up on is £750K loss and try to spin that as a terrible position to be in without actually looking at the underlying financial strength of our club. It’s what they do. Clutch at straws!!:rolleyes:

[Onceinawhile]

Just a point, Although there was a cash balance of 5m, that was at 2nd July. It'll have been massively depleted by now.

[Hibeesmad]

That’s because they’re not privy to the actual information we’ve had drop though our letterboxes this morning.
Once it’s announced in the press and on tv/radio, all Sickback will pick up on is £750K loss and try to spin that as a terrible position to be in without actually looking at the underlying financial strength of our club. It’s what they do. Clutch at straws!!:rolleyes:

They will lose a lot more than £750k playing in the Championship next season.

[Peevemor]

Just a point, Although there was a cash balance of 5m, that was at 2nd July. It'll have been massively depleted by now.

Which is normal, though ordinarily it won't all be gone.

It will also have been added to by ticket sales (some STs, home walk-ups & all away fans) cup run money including our LC semi share, merchandising including strip sales & league/tv money instalments.

I'd guess about half of the £5m will be gone (though I could be wildly wrong).

[Brightside]

If you make £500k more and spend it you've increased income (and expenses), not profits. You're still breaking even. So the only thing that changes in your scenario is that you don't spend that income until the next season, instead of projecting it and spending it in current season.

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm absolutely in favour of increasing income in order to be able to spend it on the pitch, and I'm expecting to see some good proposals on that point at the AGM. I just don't see what he's driving at by wanting to be profit making instead of breaking even.

He is talking about wanting to make profit. like Celtic.

[hibbydad]

We will also have had payouts from the league. If my memory serves me right all premiership clubs receive a payment of approximately 600k in august a small payment in december then the remainder is divied up at the end of the seaon depending on your league position

[007]

A £700k+ trading loss can't really be described as healthy - we won't make millions from player trading every year.

If we don't make the millions from player sales then we cut our cloth accordingly and don't spend so much.

If we'd tightened the purse strings and spent £700k less to achieve break even on an operating basis we'd have had a further £700k sitting in the bank and people would be complaining the player sales income wasn't being reinvested in the squad.

[Speedway]

Is the break even comment also a dig at RP who said that the club should always spend 1p less than it earned?

[Hibbyradge]

£5 million in the bank, no debt and assets of £20 odd million. Has the club ever been in a stronger financial position?

That was then ...

[Hibbyradge]

Do clocks even make that noise any more?

They do and it's one of the most relaxing, soporific noises in the world.

[Hibbyradge]

Is the break even comment also a dig at RP who said that the club should always spend 1p less than it earned?

I very much doubt it's a dig at anyone.

A change of approach, maybe, but nothing malicious.

[Lago]

I'd settle for CWG coming back myself and explaining this gobbledygook.....

Me to I miss his input, made it easier for the layman to understand.

[Lago]

They do and it's one of the most relaxing, soporific noises in the world.
Beat me too it, I'm sitting under one on my wall & it's a lovely peaceful sound as it ticks away my life. 🙂

[FilipinoHibs]

Re this and a couple of others, the £500k payments were purely a balance sheet entry and didn't affect profits - if we had exactly the same trading results this year we'd still show a £750k operating loss, but we would have an extra £500k to spend.

I hope Ron's point about making profits is about growth - i.e. making a profit this year gives you more to spend next year, which should produce greater profits and give us more to spend in the year after next and so on. It's really down to good management and spending wisely.

£500k of our income was going to pay the mortgage. If we had exactly the same trading in 2020 and no player transfers revenue, the operating loss would be £250k.

[overdrive]

£500k of our income was going to pay the mortgage. If we had exactly the same trading in 2020 and no player transfers revenue, the operating loss would be £250k.

The entire £500k was capital repayments though (no interest) which doesn’t hit the P&L hence no impact on profit.

[CapitalGreen]

£500k of our income was going to pay the mortgage. If we had exactly the same trading in 2020 and no player transfers revenue, the operating loss would be £250k.

Really please stop telling qualified accountants how to do accountancy.

[ancient hibee]

Really please stop telling qualified accountants how to do accountancy.
Accountants ken the difference between cash and profit:greengrin

[Keith_M]

They do and it's one of the most relaxing, soporific noises in the world.


I shall look up that word and it better not be rude!

[cocteautwin]

Is that £5.5m in the bank the number after we’ve received the £2.8m cash from player sales and the £1.25m injection from RG?

Sorry, I don’t have a copy of the accounts, but it would be quite worrying if we spent the £2.8m player sales cash during the 17/18 season and have not a lot to show for it.

I assume the £5.5m balance at year end is mostly advance season ticket sales and Ron’s £1.25m?

[FilipinoHibs]

Really please stop telling qualified accountants how to do accountancy.

So are you trying to tell me if we did not have to make the £500k mortgage payment we we would still have had an operating loss of £750k?

[cocteautwin]

So are you trying to tell me if we did not have to make the £500k mortgage payment we we would still have had an operating loss of £750k?

Yes :-)

[Speedway]

£500k of our income was going to pay the mortgage. If we had exactly the same trading in 2020 and no player transfers revenue, the operating loss would be £250k.

I know how that looks to be the case in simple mathematics but that’s not the case from an accounting standpoint.

[CapitalGreen]

so are you trying to tell me if we did not have to make the £500k mortgage payment we we would still have had an operating loss of £750k?

yes

[danhibees1875]

Is that £5.5m in the bank the number after we’ve received the £2.8m cash from player sales and the £1.25m injection from RG?

Sorry, I don’t have a copy of the accounts, but it would be quite worrying if we spent the £2.8m player sales cash during the 17/18 season and have not a lot to show for it.

I assume the £5.5m balance at year end is mostly advance season ticket sales and Ron’s £1.25m?

I don't have the accounts or timings to hand, but I would suspect the £1.25M from Ron was after the accounting period just reported.

The £2.8M is more likely. But if that includes the promotion bonus then there's a chance that's sitting in debtors rather than cash given the year end wasn't long after they were promoted.

[FilipinoHibs]

yes

The mortgage was a capital only repayment with no interest charges. Only interest payments and taxes are excluded from the operating profit.

[cocteautwin]

I don't have the accounts or timings to hand, but I would suspect the £1.25M from Ron was after the accounting period just reported.

The £2.8M is more likely. But if that includes the promotion bonus then there's a chance that's sitting in debtors rather than cash given the year end wasn't long after they were promoted.

Actually, somebody said above that player costs had risen by £1m and other costs by £1.4m so it looks like the SJM money has been spent on not an awful lot. Ouch.

[overdrive]

The mortgage was a capital only repayment with no interest charges. Only interest payments and taxes are excluded from the operating profit.

Interest would appear in the P&L and therefore have the effect of reducing profit (but there is no interest on the debt in question). Repayments of the outstanding debt are a balance sheet item and reduce cash and creditors.

[04Sauzee]

All you need to know here

https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/187481-hibs-profit-or-loss/

[CapitalGreen]

The mortgage was a capital only repayment with no interest charges. Only interest payments and taxes are excluded from the operating profit.

You’ve got that back to front.

[Greencore]

All you need to know here

https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/187481-hibs-profit-or-loss/

Scary.

[eezyrider]

I've moved house - How do I change my registered address?

EZ

[DarlingtonHibee]

I've moved house - do I change me registered address?

EZ

Yes, phone the club, I did it last year, no problem

[eezyrider]

Thanks :thumbsup:

EZ

[Brightside]

I notice we are advertising for a new Sales and Advertising Manager? I assume this is replacing a current employee?

[steelendhibs]

Are there other shareholders who still haven’t had theirs through the post yet?

[Caversham Green]

You’ve got that back to front.

Not quite, corporation tax and interest (both receivable and payable) are listed below operating profit in the P&L.

However, loan repayments do not touch the P&L at all, therefore their absence will have no effect on the profit/loss figure.

[Hibbyradge]

Are there other shareholders who still haven’t had theirs through the post yet?

Me, but today's post hasn't arrived yet.

[FilipinoHibs]

You’ve got that back to front.

Here we go

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/operating_profit.asp

[Keith_M]

Me, but today's post hasn't arrived yet.


Are you standing behind the door, waiting on the postie?

[franks]

Are there other shareholders who still haven’t had theirs through the post yet?

Not received mine yet, hopefully today.

[CapitalGreen]

Here we go

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/operating_profit.asp

From your link

“the calculation does not account for any debt obligations that must be met. This holds true, even if those obligations are directly tied to the company’s ability to maintain normal business operations.”

[Caversham Green]

Here we go

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/operating_profit.asp

In the paragraph entitled 'Exclusions from the operating profit calculation':



the calculation does not account for any debt obligations that must be met.


I'll go through the mechanics if I have to but it won't be pretty.

Edit: the other CG beat me to it.

[Alfred E Newman]

All you need to know here

https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/187481-hibs-profit-or-loss/

Mostly the same sort of wishful thinking nonsense that we see on our equivalent Generic Jambos thread.

[Hibbyradge]

Are you standing behind the door, waiting on the postie?

Sort of.

I can see the path to my front door from where I'm sitting. I'll be up like a shot at any sign of fluorescence!

It's actually the QF date that I'm desperate to know. It will dictate my movements that week.

[FilipinoHibs]

In the paragraph entitled 'Exclusions from the operating profit calculation':



I'll go through the mechanics if I have to but it won't be pretty.

Edit: the other CG beat me to it.

Could you explain if the operating profit excludes the annual capital mortgage of £500k per annum which would have run for 9 years, the operating profit is a loss of £275,000 but the pre-tax profit is £2 million accounted from player sales of £2.75 million. If the capital mortgage had been accounted for at this point then the pre-tax profit would be £1.5 million. Given that these capital mortgage repayments being made over 9 years, they could be considered part of the normal business operations and would be included in the operating profits. Happy to be proved wrong.

[CapitalGreen]

Could you explain if the operating profit excludes the annual capital mortgage of £500k per annum which would have run for 9 years, the operating profit is a loss of £275,000 but the pre-tax profit is £2 million accounted from player sales of £2.75 million. If the capital mortgage had been accounted for at this point then the pre-tax profit would be £1.5 million. Given that these capital mortgage repayments being made over 9 years, they could be considered part of the normal business operations and would be included in the operating profits. Happy to be proved wrong.

The previous years accounts are available on companies house, have a look at them and see if the capital repayments on the mortgage are included in the P&L.

[steelendhibs]

Me, but today's post hasn't arrived yet.

Thanks. Had address issues last couple of years and hadn’t received them so just making sure.

[Caversham Green]

Could you explain if the operating profit excludes the annual capital mortgage of £500k per annum which would have run for 9 years, the operating profit is a loss of £275,000 but the pre-tax profit is £2 million accounted from player sales of £2.75 million. If the capital mortgage had been accounted for at this point then the pre-tax profit would be £1.5 million. Given that these capital mortgage repayments being made over 9 years, they could be considered part of the normal business operations and would be included in the operating profits. Happy to be proved wrong.

OK, you asked for it.

Look at any balance sheet with a positive bank balance and loan debt included - Hibs 2018 accounts will do fine.

The balance sheet is in two main sections described by experts as "The Top" and "The Bottom". The top consists of assets minus liabilities (A-L) while the bottom includes share capital and accumulated profits/losses including that for the year being reported (the profit and loss account). Through the witchcraft of double-entry bookkeeping the bottom line of the top is the same figure as the bottom line of the bottom - hence the name 'Balance Sheet'.

Now, the cash at bank figure is an asset and the loan figure is a liability. Partial or full repayment of the loan will reduce the bank figure and will also reduce the loan figure by the same amount and since they are on different sides of the A-L sum the end result remains the same. The P&L is not affected since any movement on it would result in a Balance Sheet that didn't balance.

The simple bookkeeping entry is debit loans/credit bank - both are balance sheet accounts.

[FilipinoHibs]

OK, you asked for it.

Look at any balance sheet with a positive bank balance and loan debt included - Hibs 2018 accounts will do fine.

The balance sheet is in two main sections described by experts as "The Top" and "The Bottom". The top consists of assets minus liabilities (A-L) while the bottom includes share capital and accumulated profits/losses including that for the year being reported (the profit and loss account). Through the witchcraft of double-entry bookkeeping the bottom line of the top is the same figure as the bottom line of the bottom - hence the name 'Balance Sheet'.

Now, the cash at bank figure is an asset and the loan figure is a liability. Partial or full repayment of the loan will reduce the bank figure and will also reduce the loan figure by the same amount and since they are on different sides of the A-L sum the end result remains the same. The P&L is not affected since any movement on it would result in a Balance Sheet that didn't balance.

The simple bookkeeping entry is debit loans/credit bank - both are balance sheet accounts.

Thanks I will download the statement and work my way through the calculations. Always wanted a deeper understanding of accountancy😳.

[DarlingtonHibee]

I know how that looks to be the case in simple mathematics but that’s not the case from an accounting standpoint.

Speedway, take your word for it, I thought I was a fairly intelligent person but not in the mystery world of accountants lol 😂

[Hibbyradge]

Fluorescent chap arrived bearing letters and what I assume to be birthday cards and a box with my name on which looks suspiciously like a bottle of something nice, but no AGM papers. :boo hoo:

Email sent to ghaig@hibernianfc.co.uk who deals with this side of things.

[DarlingtonHibee]

Fluorescent chap arrived bearing letters and what I assume to be birthday cards and a box with my name on which looks suspiciously like a bottle of something nice, but no AGM papers. :boo hoo:

Email sent to ghaig@hibernianfc.co.uk who deals with this side of things.

Happy birthday mate, no accounts for me yet either

[Hibbyradge]

Happy birthday mate, no accounts for me yet either

It's on the 18th, P.

Your lack of accounts has reassured me s bit. 😁

[Brightside]

OK, you asked for it.

Look at any balance sheet with a positive bank balance and loan debt included - Hibs 2018 accounts will do fine.

The balance sheet is in two main sections described by experts as "The Top" and "The Bottom". The top consists of assets minus liabilities (A-L) while the bottom includes share capital and accumulated profits/losses including that for the year being reported (the profit and loss account). Through the witchcraft of double-entry bookkeeping the bottom line of the top is the same figure as the bottom line of the bottom - hence the name 'Balance Sheet'.

Now, the cash at bank figure is an asset and the loan figure is a liability. Partial or full repayment of the loan will reduce the bank figure and will also reduce the loan figure by the same amount and since they are on different sides of the A-L sum the end result remains the same. The P&L is not affected since any movement on it would result in a Balance Sheet that didn't balance.

The simple bookkeeping entry is debit loans/credit bank - both are balance sheet accounts.

This brings back nightmares of O Grade Accounting 30 years ago! I only did it as I wanted to be a Turf Accountant! Careers Advice didnt really understand the difference.

[DarlingtonHibee]

It's on the 18th, P.

Your lack of accounts has reassured me s bit. 😁

Get you a pint at the agm lol

[banchoryhibs]

OK, you asked for it.

Look at any balance sheet with a positive bank balance and loan debt included - Hibs 2018 accounts will do fine.

The balance sheet is in two main sections described by experts as "The Top" and "The Bottom". The top consists of assets minus liabilities (A-L) while the bottom includes share capital and accumulated profits/losses including that for the year being reported (the profit and loss account). Through the witchcraft of double-entry bookkeeping the bottom line of the top is the same figure as the bottom line of the bottom - hence the name 'Balance Sheet'.

Now, the cash at bank figure is an asset and the loan figure is a liability. Partial or full repayment of the loan will reduce the bank figure and will also reduce the loan figure by the same amount and since they are on different sides of the A-L sum the end result remains the same. The P&L is not affected since any movement on it would result in a Balance Sheet that didn't balance.

The simple bookkeeping entry is debit loans/credit bank - both are balance sheet accounts.

Love it!

I can't wait until you are asked to explain how VAT interacts with the figures …. :cb :duck::wink:

It might be worth mentioning that SJM's transfer was in August 2018 - near the beginning of this accounting period. I'm absolutely guessing as I'm not in the know but it could be safe to assume that some of the "excessive" expenditure that contributed to the operating loss was sanctioned with the firm knowledge that the funds were already in place to cover it. So perhaps no rash overspending!

[weecounty hibby]

OK, you asked for it.

Look at any balance sheet with a positive bank balance and loan debt included - Hibs 2018 accounts will do fine.

The balance sheet is in two main sections described by experts as "The Top" and "The Bottom". The top consists of assets minus liabilities (A-L) while the bottom includes share capital and accumulated profits/losses including that for the year being reported (the profit and loss account). Through the witchcraft of double-entry bookkeeping the bottom line of the top is the same figure as the bottom line of the bottom - hence the name 'Balance Sheet'.

Now, the cash at bank figure is an asset and the loan figure is a liability. Partial or full repayment of the loan will reduce the bank figure and will also reduce the loan figure by the same amount and since they are on different sides of the A-L sum the end result remains the same. The P&L is not affected since any movement on it would result in a Balance Sheet that didn't balance.

The simple bookkeeping entry is debit loans/credit bank - both are balance sheet accounts.

😭😭🤯🤯 That makes for horrible reading. If someone could just let me know if we look stable or look like doing a jambo that's enough for me. I only want to know if Hibs are going to win some games of football. Thank god I stuck in at school and became an engineer!!!!

[banchoryhibs]

�������� That makes for horrible reading. If someone could just let me know if we look stable or look like doing a jambo that's enough for me. I only want to know if Hibs are going to win some games of football. Thank god I stuck in at school and became an engineer!!!!

In my opinion we are very stable, however if we want to improve that will take more money and the club needs to explore every avenue to increase our revenues. Hopefully Ron will clearly present his vision on just this matter at the AGM.

We can't compete with Aberdeen unless we can match, or better, their income streams.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm sure someone on sickbag has posted 'tick tock'

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200213/49fa40d9511be3119e2d734d0b89a915.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[matty_f]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200213/49fa40d9511be3119e2d734d0b89a915.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Staring relegation in the face and thick as ****, could you get a more typical Duncan?

[WhileTheChief..]

Love it!

I can't wait until you are asked to explain how VAT interacts with the figures …. :cb :duck::wink:



VAT gets brought up a lot on here whilst ignoring any other form of tax issues. Never really understood why.

I guess it's cause folk have heard of it whilst all the other stuff just goes over our heads.

[Hibbyradge]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200213/49fa40d9511be3119e2d734d0b89a915.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Grasp of reality, zero.

Delusion at max.

[hibbydad]

In my opinion we are very stable, however if we want to improve that will take more money and the club needs to explore every avenue to increase our revenues. Hopefully Ron will clearly present his vision on just this matter at the AGM.

We can't compete with Aberdeen unless we can match, or better, their income streams.
You are right Banchory our commercial income is falling way behind that of Hearts and Aberdeen

[Ozyhibby]

You are right Banchory our commercial income is falling way behind that of Hearts and Aberdeen

Yip. In most areas I would say the club is run well but the two areas I personally think we are underperforming in is the clubs commercial revenue compared with Aberdeen and Hearts and also I think our youth development appears to be failing. Since Eddie May came in we haven’t really produced any players worth selling and only really Porteous has made the step up to the first team. That’s the two things I’d be most wanting answers to at the agm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[weecounty hibby]

Yip. In most areas I would say the club is run well but the two areas I personally think we are underperforming in is the clubs commercial revenue compared with Aberdeen and Hearts and also I think our youth development appears to be failing. Since Eddie May came in we haven’t really produced any players worth selling and only really Porteous has made the step up to the first team. That’s the two things I’d be most wanting answers to at the agm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the point about young players coming into the first team is a bit unfair. Murray, Shaw, Porteous, Gullan, they boy that was on loan at Dundee just off the top of my head have played 1st team for Hibs. If you use the Tarts as a yardstick they have had Cockring and a few others who were meant to be the greatest youngsters of all time. Played a few first team games and then did nothing. Th difference is they told everyone how great these kids were, remember Driver for £10m? I don't think we are much better or worse than most teams.

[Ozyhibby]

I think the point about young players coming into the first team is a bit unfair. Murray, Shaw, Porteous, Gullan, they boy that was on loan at Dundee just off the top of my head have played 1st team for Hibs. If you use the Tarts as a yardstick they have had Cockring and a few others who were meant to be the greatest youngsters of all time. Played a few first team games and then did nothing. Th difference is they told everyone how great these kids were, remember Driver for £10m? I don't think we are much better or worse than most teams.

Only one first team regular in 6 years? I would say that is a poor return on the level of investment in the youth program.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[steelendhibs]

Can you get parked relatively easily around the ground on AGM night?

[Barney McGrew]

Can you get parked relatively easily around the ground on AGM night?

Yes, although I’m guessing the attendance at this one might be a good big larger than normal.

[CapitalGreen]

Anyone running a bus?

[Hibs4185]

What was the turnover figure In the accounts?

[Bobo]

Only one first team regular in 6 years? I would say that is a poor return on the level of investment in the youth program.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Shaw, Porteous, Murray and Mackie have 157 appearances between them so far. With the exception of Shaw the other 3 still have the opportunity to add to their totals. Gullan has only recently appeared at 1st team level and currently has 6 appearances so far which he'll hopefully also add to in the coming months. Over 160 appearances between them and counting isn't too bad.

If you include the likes of Callum Booth (46), Sam Stanton (70), Alex Harris (60), Danny Handling (65), Jordan Forster (79) and Jason Cummings (150) who all made appearances in the past 6 years, I don't think our return has been poor.

How many appearances does a player have to make before they're deemed to be a "regular"?

[my left peg]

What was the turnover figure In the accounts?£10.8 million....up £1.2 million on the previous year

Sent from my SM-G390F using Tapatalk

[MagicSwirlingShip]

£10.8 million....up £1.2 million on the previous year

Sent from my SM-G390F using Tapatalk

Mad that we are still nearly £5m short of Aberdeen in turnover, £15.415m they last posted

[Ozyhibby]

Shaw, Porteous, Murray and Mackie have 157 appearances between them so far. With the exception of Shaw the other 3 still have the opportunity to add to their totals. Gullan has only recently appeared at 1st team level and currently has 6 appearances so far which he'll hopefully also add to in the coming months. Over 160 appearances between them and counting isn't too bad.

If you include the likes of Callum Booth (46), Sam Stanton (70), Alex Harris (60), Danny Handling (65), Jordan Forster (79) and Jason Cummings (150) who all made appearances in the past 6 years, I don't think our return has been poor.

How many appearances does a player have to make before they're deemed to be a "regular"?

Booth, Handling, Harris and Forster all broke through before Eddie May arrived. Cummings also broke through before Eddie May arrived but was a product of Heart set up.
Shaw hasn’t made it. Murray and Gullan still have a chance and Mackie came from Raith Rovers. Porteous is it. The one and only first team regular in 6 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CapitalGreen]

Booth, Handling, Harris and Forster all broke through before Eddie May arrived. Cummings also broke through before Eddie May arrived but was a product of Heart set up.
Shaw hasn’t made it. Murray and Gullan still have a chance and Mackie came from Raith Rovers. Porteous is it. The one and only first team regular in 6 years.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mackie spent considerably more time within Hibs academy than at Raith Rovers. Unless you expect us to sign players straight out the womb, they are going to train with other clubs.

I also think basing it on 6 years is not fair, how much impact do you think any coaching or structural changes would have had on players who were 16-18 at the time Eddie May arrived, I’d say none. Even Porteous was 15 when May arrived. I’d say the proof will be in the pudding for players who have been recruited and through the academy system since May joined so talking about players who were 11-12 in Summer 2014 and who should be breaking through in the next few years.

[Robbo6-2]

The young players are there. Just look at our results at youth level against everyone else.

The problem is our managers are under so much pressure they are scared to play them

[Caversham Green]

Mad that we are still nearly £5m short of Aberdeen in turnover, £15.415m they last posted

Their 2019 accounts are up now and their turnover is £15.928m. However they spent £20.943m to achieve that, resulting in a £5.015m loss. Not a business model I'd like to see Hibs following.

[overdrive]

Booth, Handling, Harris and Forster all broke through before Eddie May arrived. Cummings also broke through before Eddie May arrived but was a product of Heart set up.
Shaw hasn’t made it. Murray and Gullan still have a chance and Mackie came from Raith Rovers. Porteous is it. The one and only first team regular in 6 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mackie was at Hibs before he went to Raith Rovers. We released him then resigned him when he started to do well with Raith, so he probably could be classed as a product of our academy.

[The Modfather]

The young players are there. Just look at our results at youth level against everyone else.

The problem is our managers are under so much pressure they are scared to play them

I think there’s an argument not to put too much stock in youth results as the team with the best youngsters may be the poorest side as they are all in the first team squad. As was the case with our youth team during the golden generation.

Our managers will always be under pressure if we are to regularly compete at the top end of the league. We need to either find a way to actually blood youngsters while not impacting too much on the short term competitiveness otherwise we might as well just do away with our youth set up,

[The Modfather]

Their 2019 accounts are up now and their turnover is £15.928m. However they spent £20.943m to achieve that, resulting in a £5.015m loss. Not a business model I'd like to see Hibs following.

What was the make up of the 5million loss? Any of it down to the new stadium and/or training centre? Even with an owner putting his own money in that can’t be sustainable and surely a one off year with mitigation.

[Caversham Green]

What was the make up of the 5million loss? Any of it down to the new stadium and/or training centre? Even with an owner putting his own money in that can’t be sustainable and surely a one off year with mitigation.

Yes, it is a one-off - there's an impairment to Pittodrie of £4.25m, which is just a book entry in anticipation of the sale (I assume). Their operating loss was £1.029m, they had a gain on player sales of £308k and paid interest of £44k. After taking the impairment and player sales out of the equation their bottom line was still a fair bit worse than ours.

The stadium (£900k) and training centre (£7.402m) are balance sheet items and aren't included in those figures.

[Ozyhibby]

Mackie spent considerably more time within Hibs academy than at Raith Rovers. Unless you expect us to sign players straight out the womb, they are going to train with other clubs.

I also think basing it on 6 years is not fair, how much impact do you think any coaching or structural changes would have had on players who were 16-18 at the time Eddie May arrived, I’d say none. Even Porteous was 15 when May arrived. I’d say the proof will be in the pudding for players who have been recruited and through the academy system since May joined so talking about players who were 11-12 in Summer 2014 and who should be breaking through in the next few years.


Mackie was at Hibs before he went to Raith Rovers. We released him then resigned him when he started to do well with Raith, so he probably could be classed as a product of our academy.

Either way Mackie hasn’t made it at Hibs yet. A youth set up should be producing more than one player every 6 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blackpoolhibs]

How do we compare with the rest, when looking at players that have come through and are regulars in their first teams? :confused:

[DarlingtonHibee]

Guess a lot of it, is what resources you have, celtic obviously put a lot of time and money in.

[CapitalGreen]

Either way Mackie hasn’t made it at Hibs yet. A youth set up should be producing more than one player every 6 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed but I don’t think the lack of youth products for the period 2014-2018 can be attributable to Eddie May.

[Ozyhibby]

Agreed but I don’t think the lack of youth products for the period 2014-2018 can be attributable to Eddie May.

He’s in charge of the youth set up over that period. I doubt he said in his interview in 2014 that he expects us to produce only one player over the next 6 years so I think it’s fair to ask what’s going wrong. Not sure what the youth section costs a year but I’m sure it’s not cheap. A good youth set up pays for itself by selling players. Ours is not managing that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Modfather]

How do we compare with the rest, when looking at players that have come through and are regulars in their first teams? :confused:

The closest article I could find

https://www.modernfitba.com/blogs/2020/1/2/can-the-top-clubs-in-scotland-do-a-better-job-at-developing-young-players

I'm sure there will be flaws in the logic used to collate these numbers, but on the face of it the two graphs in the link below don't make good reading for our youth set up and pathway to the first team.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5add632d365f02661263f497/1578071902596-YMD9U4QR9ALDYQG0TN1K/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kLSak7l3sRm5FZkwfuCDLYtZw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWQUxwkmyExglNqGp0IvTJZUJFbgE-7XRK3dMEBRBhUpywov-VqxdBprc-N8M8tRr7SxRtt4lq_Lt7d6j0DK9tx_VP9ketaQCJXqIbxsHL7I Y/Screen+Shot+2020-01-03+at+9.18.04+AM.png?format=1500w

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5add632d365f02661263f497/1578001263067-OAHAYEU3PKZO67HETKD6/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kEfec6Fqa-oAkq5i4L0fdiBZw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWQUxwkmyExglNqGp0IvTJZamWLI2zvYWH 8K3-s_4yszcp2ryTI0HqTOaaUohrI8PIj2JiPBSGnTpK7tSfSaEIzP Ds4yEN5afAJYUjBnmeihw/Screen+Shot+2020-01-02+at+1.40.51+PM.png?format=1500w

[CapitalGreen]

He’s in charge of the youth set up over that period. I doubt he said in his interview in 2014 that he expects us to produce only one player over the next 6 years so I think it’s fair to ask what’s going wrong. Not sure what the youth section costs a year but I’m sure it’s not cheap. A good youth set up pays for itself by selling players. Ours is not managing that.

If you consider a players youth development process at the club to take 6/7 years from pro-youth to professional, then Eddie May should be judged against players coming through now and going forward rather than against players who were already in the under 20s and signing their first professional contracts when he arrived.

You are judging May against the like of Shaw and Stirling, guys who were 16 at the time he arrived. How much impact would changes to the structure of the academy have on the players he inherited such as these if they weren’t likely to make it in the first place.

[Ozyhibby]

The closest article I could find

https://www.modernfitba.com/blogs/2020/1/2/can-the-top-clubs-in-scotland-do-a-better-job-at-developing-young-players

I'm sure there will be flaws in the logic used to collate these numbers, but on the face of it the two graphs in the link below don't make good reading for our youth set up and pathway to the first team.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5add632d365f02661263f497/1578071902596-YMD9U4QR9ALDYQG0TN1K/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kLSak7l3sRm5FZkwfuCDLYtZw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWQUxwkmyExglNqGp0IvTJZUJFbgE-7XRK3dMEBRBhUpywov-VqxdBprc-N8M8tRr7SxRtt4lq_Lt7d6j0DK9tx_VP9ketaQCJXqIbxsHL7I Y/Screen+Shot+2020-01-03+at+9.18.04+AM.png?format=1500w

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5add632d365f02661263f497/1578001263067-OAHAYEU3PKZO67HETKD6/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kEfec6Fqa-oAkq5i4L0fdiBZw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWQUxwkmyExglNqGp0IvTJZamWLI2zvYWH 8K3-s_4yszcp2ryTI0HqTOaaUohrI8PIj2JiPBSGnTpK7tSfSaEIzP Ds4yEN5afAJYUjBnmeihw/Screen+Shot+2020-01-02+at+1.40.51+PM.png?format=1500w

Makes for pretty grim reading for those involved with youth development at Hibs. And I think it’s fair that fans ask questions about why it’s going so wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mikey]

If you consider a players youth development process at the club to take 6/7 years from pro-youth to professional, then Eddie May should be judged against players coming through now and going forward rather than against players who were already in the under 20s and signing their first professional contracts when he arrived.

You are judging May against the like of Shaw and Stirling, guys who were 16 at the time he arrived. How much impact would changes to the structure of the academy have on the players he inherited such as these if they weren’t likely to make it in the first place.


Makes for pretty grim reading for those involved with youth development at Hibs. And I think it’s fair that fans ask questions about why it’s going so wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, but you're completely ignoring the point made above. Again.

[Ozyhibby]

If you consider a players youth development process at the club to take 6/7 years from pro-youth to professional, then Eddie May should be judged against players coming through now and going forward rather than against players who were already in the under 20s and signing their first professional contracts when he arrived.

You are judging May against the like of Shaw and Stirling, guys who were 16 at the time he arrived. How much impact would changes to the structure of the academy have on the players he inherited such as these if they weren’t likely to make it in the first place.

And where are all the 20 year olds that should be banging down the door?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HendoDelivered]

Grasp of reality, zero.

Delusion at max.

Agree. But tbh, it’s quite weird that people are going out their way to go on their forum to see what they are saying about us. **** them.

[green day]

And where are all the 20 year olds that should be banging down the door?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is a reasonable question.

There is obviously a sizeable cost to running a youth operation, and just being able to say you are part of Project Brave is not the tangible reward that Hibs need.

This issue - lack of talent flowing into the first team - has to be one of the areas under the microscope now, or we might as well go the Falkirk route and ditch it entirely.

[WhileTheChief..]

we might as well go the Falkirk route and ditch it entirely.

We should seriously consider it.

Use the money that we spend on our youth set up to poach the best youngsters from other clubs in a similar vein to how we got John McGinn.

Sucks morally but we'd probably get a better return on our money.

It's nice to say we develop our own players but in reality we don't. We develop them for some lower league teams in the future.

[Ozyhibby]

I don’t want us to go that way to be honest. I think it’s good for a club to bring through local youngsters.
We just need to ask why it’s failing just now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CapitalGreen]

And where are all the 20 year olds that should be banging down the door?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Two featured on Wednesday night and another (regular starter who has been called up to the national team) is out injured.

[Kato]

It's not just down to Eddie May. The hardest part is having a manager with the talent to help the youth take the step up, imbue them with confidence and carry on their career without making 1st team football seem a scary prospect. Previous managers in the time scale have to carry some of the can too if we are falling short.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

Two featured on Wednesday night and another (regular starter who has been called up to the national team) is out injured.

Murray is not exactly banging down the door. He’s been in and out the first team squad for a while now without making any kind of impact.
Gullan, it’s still early days yet. Hopefully he can make the break through.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CapitalGreen]

Murray is not exactly banging down the door. He’s been in and out the first team squad for a while now without making any kind of impact.
Gullan, it’s still early days yet. Hopefully he can make the break through.


Depends how narrowly you wish to define “banging the door down” I suppose. We can only start 11 players each match and field a total of 14 including subs. Murray has been in those 14 players the last 2 games while playing understudy this season to our star summer signing who we have effectively built the team around.

[Spike Mandela]

Mad that we are still nearly £5m short of Aberdeen in turnover, £15.415m they last posted

Wondering if this has anything to do with Aberdeen being a one club city whilst Edinburgh is a two club city and commercial streams are divided.

[Ozyhibby]

Wondering if this has anything to do with Aberdeen being a one club city whilst Edinburgh is a two club city and commercial streams are divided.

Our city is twice as big.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SetonClapper]

Do you have to be a shareholder to attend the AGM ? Can I take a guest ?

[Sergio sledge]

Our city is twice as big.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But we also have significantly more competition for the likes of corporate hospitality and sponsorship in Edinburgh. Aberdeen FC is the only show in town up there.

[CapitalGreen]

But we also have significantly more competition for the likes of corporate hospitality and sponsorship in Edinburgh. Aberdeen FC is the only show in town up there.

This, someone living in the central belt is likely within 1 hours drive of at least 8 Premier League clubs, including the old firm. Someone living in Aberdeen is within 1 hours drive of 1 Premier League club - Aberdeen.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Question. If I send away the proxy form for someone, do they need to show anything at the door?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

This, someone living in the central belt is likely within 1 hours drive of at least 8 Premier League clubs, including the old firm. Someone living in Aberdeen is within 1 hours drive of 1 Premier League club - Aberdeen.

Doesn’t really explain why our commercial income is behind Hearts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rumble de Thump]

Doesn’t really explain why our commercial income is behind Hearts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How far behind is it?

[Peevemor]

Doesn’t really explain why our commercial income is behind Hearts?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYou're too quick to believe Budge's PR.

[Ozyhibby]

You're too quick to believe Budge's PR.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200214/e8a5e766c49509c0184481d04e3d0dc5.jpg
Their accounts show a higher commercial income than us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Peevemor]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200214/e8a5e766c49509c0184481d04e3d0dc5.jpg
Their accounts show a higher commercial income than us.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkApart from anything else, all their catering (including pie stands) is in-house whereas ours isn't . Their income is higher but so are their outgoings, particularly staff costs.

[Baldy Foghorn]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200214/e8a5e766c49509c0184481d04e3d0dc5.jpg
Their accounts show a higher commercial income than us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We never show a breakdown of turnover though, so how can you compare?

[brog]

We never show a breakdown of turnover though, so how can you compare?

Good question!!
I just saw accounts this morning. There was a debate in summer about our wage bill. It's gone up again this year by another 19% bringing total increase to 85% in last 4 years. I remain convinced we're more than competitive with our lowly neighbours on wages paid & are not far behind Aberdeen. The cash flow & p & l numbers re intangible fixed assets (players) are also encouraging & show we've paid out decent money on acquisitions. Future plans & the AGM should be interesting.

[inglisavhibs]

How far behind is it?

Hearts also have a catering company which caters for outside establishments like Turnhouse GC and Watsonians RFC. This could generate a couple of million but there will be considerable costs associated with it and not sure how much if anything it helps their profit.

[Ozyhibby]

Hearts also have a catering company which caters for outside establishments like Turnhouse GC and Watsonians RFC. This could generate a couple of million but there will be considerable costs associated with it and not sure how much if anything it helps their profit.

I didn’t know that. I book Turnhouse GC once a year for a Xmas family function and have done for more than 10 years now. New venue next Xmas it is then.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Forza Fred]

VAT gets brought up a lot on here whilst ignoring any other form of tax issues. Never really understood why.

I guess it's cause folk have heard of it whilst all the other stuff just goes over our heads.

Don’t get me started on VAT!

Every time I, or my fellow antipodeans make a purchase from the Hibs shop we needlessly pay 20% more than we need to because of the licencees inadequate software!

Neither the club, nor the company gain anything, but if VAT appears on an invoice by law they must remit to Hector.

For purchasers outwith the EEC, VAT on goods purchased is not collectable by HMRC.

Have queried this unnecessary donation to Boris with the company, but while they have made sympathetic noises, nothing has changed.

[04Sauzee]

Looking forward to the updates tomorrow night. 😁

[hibbydad]

Anyone know how the meeting in the Edinburgh suite went last night

[Danderhall Hibs]

Anyone know how the meeting in the Edinburgh suite went last night

Heard bits and bobs - nothing earth shattering. Prices for Edinburgh suite changing (getting rid off silver membership).

[The Harp Awakes]

Question. If I send away the proxy form for someone, do they need to show anything at the door?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd like to know the answer to your question too. I agreed to attend as a proxy for a mate but I don't have any info to show at the door.

[Hibbyradge]

I'd like to know the answer to your question too. I agreed to attend as a proxy for a mate but I don't have any info to show at the door.

I'm sure that they just have to give their name and the shareholder's.

[CallumLaidlaw]

I'd like to know the answer to your question too. I agreed to attend as a proxy for a mate but I don't have any info to show at the door.

I got a reply. If he sent the form away, all you need to do is show ID at the door.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NAE NOOKIE]

All very dry this facts and figures stuff. Lets hope Mr Gordon has a few innovative cards up his sleeve regarding ways to raise money for the club and a few ambitions for the whole club that involve paying for a good team on the park and an even better stadium and training facility.

If it amounts to a rousing cry of 'pony up' to the fans and sod all else I for one will be pretty underwhelmed.

[madhatter]

All very dry this facts and figures stuff. Lets hope Mr Gordon has a few innovative cards up his sleeve regarding ways to raise money for the club and a few ambitions for the whole club that involve paying for a good team on the park and an even better stadium and training facility.

If it amounts to a rousing cry of 'pony up' to the fans and sod all else I for one will be pretty underwhelmed.

Club need to convince me to buy a ST for next season nevermind any additional funds they'd like from me. I wont be alone in this. Football fans largely want good football on the park and this season has been pretty dire. Even now our football is like when Hecky first took over, not great but grinding out decent enough results.

I hope for big ideas and plans but trying to avoid the whole thing tbh as I suspect this build up will not match what is delivered. Small changes here and there is what I keep trying to tell myself. It's the hope that kills you.

[Ozyhibby]

Club need to convince me to buy a ST for next season nevermind any additional funds they'd like from me. I wont be alone in this. Football fans largely want good football on the park and this season has been pretty dire. Even now our football is like when Hecky first took over, not great but grinding out decent enough results.

I hope for big ideas and plans but trying to avoid the whole thing tbh as I suspect this build up will not match what is delivered. Small changes here and there is what I keep trying to tell myself. It's the hope that kills you.

I actually enjoy our football just now.

Agm will likely be dominated by question to Jack Ross as is usually the case.
Big issues for me are the commercial income and why it’s so lacking. I think this will be the main thrust of what the club are presenting at it anyway though.
Other area is the failure of our youth development over the last 6 years. This will only come up if someone asks about it though so hopefully someone will.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibbysam]

Club need to convince me to buy a ST for next season nevermind any additional funds they'd like from me. I wont be alone in this. Football fans largely want good football on the park and this season has been pretty dire. Even now our football is like when Hecky first took over, not great but grinding out decent enough results.

I hope for big ideas and plans but trying to avoid the whole thing tbh as I suspect this build up will not match what is delivered. Small changes here and there is what I keep trying to tell myself. It's the hope that kills you.

We have some poorer games, that’s to be expected. In the main our football is fairly decent now though, a team including Boyle, Allan, docherty and Newell behind guys like Doidge and McNulty is fairly expansive and it’s not like we’re just punting balls aimlessly up to them.

[madhatter]

We have some poorer games, that’s to be expected. In the main our football is fairly decent now though, a team including Boyle, Allan, docherty and Newell behind guys like Doidge and McNulty is fairly expansive and it’s not like we’re just punting balls aimlessly up to them.

Our passive defending and our weak midfield have made football quite boring for me. We retreated very fast against Livingston for example. Our opponents get easy possession up to the half way line. It would be fine if we didn’t gift goals but we do. Our reliance on Boyle is worrying as I think he will go soon. For weeks now, we’ve had a gaping hole in midfield with 4-5 players standing in attack while our defenders pass it across the back looking for a pass forward. The football has been far worse than it is now but it still isn’t great. Beyond Boyle we have very few players that take a man on, the turn sideways or backwards is extremely boring. We are fortunate that the league in general has been poor - Hearts and Aberdeen have had poor seasons. The former especially.

No point generating more funds if you don’t remediate the summer transfer window problems. That’s 3 years running we’ve had to do fairly substantial “fixing” of the squad to save our season. There is much about the club credit worthy, things are not doom and gloom as my post probably suggests but let’s not kid ourselves we are already very much a mid table club and Aberdeen and Hearts are very unlikely to continue plodding along in the same way for too much longer.

I still maintain Hibs should have a footballing philosophy, a style of play that defines the club. Probably stupid but I don’t see how you truly grow a football club in all ways without also becoming known for something on a football park - greenest club in Scotland will only go so far. Hope there is big news coming as we have a finance gap that won’t be filled by fans without some exceptional convincing, just ask HSL.

[Tyler Durden]

I actually enjoy our football just now.

Agm will likely be dominated by question to Jack Ross as is usually the case.
Big issues for me are the commercial income and why it’s so lacking. I think this will be the main thrust of what the club are presenting at it anyway though.
Other area is the failure of our youth development over the last 6 years. This will only come up if someone asks about it though so hopefully someone will.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It seems that you’re happy to continually repeat the claim that our commercial income is miles behind Hearts and Aberdeen, despite not having any up to date information supporting that.

Hopefully the AGM and accounts will help clarify but the important thing is the wage bill and how that compares. I’d wager we’re not a million miles away from Aberdeen and Hearts and we’re spending more every year.

[Tyler Durden]

Club need to convince me to buy a ST for next season nevermind any additional funds they'd like from me. I wont be alone in this. Football fans largely want good football on the park and this season has been pretty dire. Even now our football is like when Hecky first took over, not great but grinding out decent enough results.

I hope for big ideas and plans but trying to avoid the whole thing tbh as I suspect this build up will not match what is delivered. Small changes here and there is what I keep trying to tell myself. It's the hope that kills you.

If Hibs finish 4th or 5th this year it’ll be the best performance over a 3 year period for about 50 years. A great platform to build on now that we have another good manager in place.

In terms of entertainment, we’ve scored 2 or more goals in something like 80% of our home games this season. The football is certainly not dire. I’m not sure what you’re hoping for to be honest? There’s lots to be positive about.

[Ozyhibby]

It seems that you’re happy to continually repeat the claim that our commercial income is miles behind Hearts and Aberdeen, despite not having any up to date information supporting that.

Hopefully the AGM and accounts will help clarify but the important thing is the wage bill and how that compares. I’d wager we’re not a million miles away from Aberdeen and Hearts and we’re spending more every year.

Aberdeen’s turnover was 50% + more than ours and their attendances were lower than ours. It’s delivering a better team on the pitch for them. I’d like to know why?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[madhatter]

If Hibs finish 4th or 5th this year it’ll be the best performance over a 3 year period for about 50 years. A great platform to build on now that we have another good manager in place.

In terms of entertainment, we’ve scored 2 or more goals in something like 80% of our home games this season. The football is certainly not dire. I’m not sure what you’re hoping for to be honest? There’s lots to be positive about.

A platform that on the face of it looks more stable than 3 seasons saved by January signings and managerial changes? As I said, things aren’t awful, far from it but if this is truly a position of strength then we should push to further it. Porteous looks like the first Hibs youngster (not recruited from competitor) to make it in a few years but he hasn’t developed particularly well over the last 18 months and our youth development has a poor track record of developing players good enough for Hibs. Booth, Stanton and Shaw are a few recent ones of a far bigger list.

Football was more entertaining under Stubbs and Lennon. It isn’t awful now but we’ve been fortunate equal sized clubs have been poor this season.

[Barney McGrew]

Aberdeen’s turnover was 50% + more than ours and their attendances were lower than ours. It’s delivering a better team on the pitch for them. I’d like to know why?

Aberdeen and Hearts both run their own stadium catering, which will account for a large chunk of the difference. But that also means their costs are far higher as they pay all the staffing and purchasing costs.

They’ve also had some huge external cash donations, but I’m not sure if that’s included in their turnover figures - maybe someone can confirm?

[jacomo]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200214/e8a5e766c49509c0184481d04e3d0dc5.jpg
Their accounts show a higher commercial income than us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Whose accounts are these?

If it’s Hearts, where are the massive donations which are propping them up?

[hibbysam]

Our passive defending and our weak midfield have made football quite boring for me. We retreated very fast against Livingston for example. Our opponents get easy possession up to the half way line. It would be fine if we didn’t gift goals but we do. Our reliance on Boyle is worrying as I think he will go soon. For weeks now, we’ve had a gaping hole in midfield with 4-5 players standing in attack while our defenders pass it across the back looking for a pass forward. The football has been far worse than it is now but it still isn’t great. Beyond Boyle we have very few players that take a man on, the turn sideways or backwards is extremely boring. We are fortunate that the league in general has been poor - Hearts and Aberdeen have had poor seasons. The former especially.

No point generating more funds if you don’t remediate the summer transfer window problems. That’s 3 years running we’ve had to do fairly substantial “fixing” of the squad to save our season. There is much about the club credit worthy, things are not doom and gloom as my post probably suggests but let’s not kid ourselves we are already very much a mid table club and Aberdeen and Hearts are very unlikely to continue plodding along in the same way for too much longer.

I still maintain Hibs should have a footballing philosophy, a style of play that defines the club. Probably stupid but I don’t see how you truly grow a football club in all ways without also becoming known for something on a football park - greenest club in Scotland will only go so far. Hope there is big news coming as we have a finance gap that won’t be filled by fans without some exceptional convincing, just ask HSL.

All in your opinion. Our summer recruits took time to get going, one or two failed and have since left. We are scoring goals regularly. We are creating many chances. You mention we are weak etc, we failed to recruit a sitting midfielder in the summer, we now have Omeonga and docherty who can get around the middle of the park.

I enjoy watching us play, and more importantly, I can see how Ross wants us to play going forward. 2 semi finals and a top 6 finish minimum should satisfy us, we can be thoroughly pleased with our work if we get anymore out the season than that after our year up til November.

[Brightside]

Club need to convince me to buy a ST for next season nevermind any additional funds they'd like from me. I wont be alone in this. Football fans largely want good football on the park and this season has been pretty dire. Even now our football is like when Hecky first took over, not great but grinding out decent enough results.

I hope for big ideas and plans but trying to avoid the whole thing tbh as I suspect this build up will not match what is delivered. Small changes here and there is what I keep trying to tell myself. It's the hope that kills you.

I really like our football this season. Including under Hecky.

[Billy Whizz]

Whose accounts are these?

If it’s Hearts, where are the massive donations which are propping them up?

Aberdeen

[Tyler Durden]

Aberdeen’s turnover was 50% + more than ours and their attendances were lower than ours. It’s delivering a better team on the pitch for them. I’d like to know why?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You say you’d like to know why but when people explain the reasons you tend to ignore those posts and repeat your question again at every opportunity.

Hopefully the AGM and the up to date accounts can put this to bed

[madhatter]

All in your opinion. Our summer recruits took time to get going, one or two failed and have since left. We are scoring goals regularly. We are creating many chances. You mention we are weak etc, we failed to recruit a sitting midfielder in the summer, we now have Omeonga and docherty who can get around the middle of the park.

I enjoy watching us play, and more importantly, I can see how Ross wants us to play going forward. 2 semi finals and a top 6 finish minimum should satisfy us, we can be thoroughly pleased with our work if we get anymore out the season than that after our year up til November.

Your reply is also all in your opinion, just to point out. James, Newell, Jackson and Hallberg still need to prove themselves. Doidge has been fairly consistent with scoring goals but the rest are still only bit part in my opinion. You’ve stated Omeonga and Docherty sorting out our midfield which surely in itself says that Hallberg, Slivka, Horgan and Mallan may not have been good enough? Hallberg has not played for a while and James looks like he will be emptied in the summer.

Did you enjoy watching us play Livingston, BSC and St Mirren? I’m not seeing how Ross wants us to play going forward - he has played different systems recently and I think that’s mainly due to lack of options - cannot put out a decent flat 4 in midfield as Horgan isn’t able to last very long and is very inconsistent. The wingbacks allows Allan and removes the lopsided diamond that we’ve been playing with Boyle wide on right. I think this is Ross adapting to what is available rather than any long term plans.

The fact you’ve said “if we get anymore out the season than that after our year up til November” is exactly my point - this exact phrase could have been used for the past 3 seasons. Lennon got us going on a rampage after January in relatively poor season up until then, Lennon had poor season and left in strange way for season to be recovered by Hecky, Hecky has terrible season which needs saved by Ross. Why should we be “thoroughly pleased” with this? I’m pleased at not being in relegation fight but thoroughly is pushing it a wee bit. Sacking managers and terminating long term contracts costs money.

I hope big plans are outlined over the next week or so.

[Ozyhibby]

You say you’d like to know why but when people explain the reasons you tend to ignore those posts and repeat your question again at every opportunity.

Hopefully the AGM and the up to date accounts can put this to bed

I’m just not that convinced that doing your own catering can add £5m to our turnover?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Steven79]

I’m just not that convinced that doing your own catering can add £5m to our turnover?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWe need chips...


Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[inglisavhibs]

Your reply is also all in your opinion, just to point out. James, Newell, Jackson and Hallberg still need to prove themselves. Doidge has been fairly consistent with scoring goals but the rest are still only bit part in my opinion. You’ve stated Omeonga and Docherty sorting out our midfield which surely in itself says that Hallberg, Slivka, Horgan and Mallan may not have been good enough? Hallberg has not played for a while and James looks like he will be emptied in the summer.

Did you enjoy watching us play Livingston, BSC and St Mirren? I’m not seeing how Ross wants us to play going forward - he has played different systems recently and I think that’s mainly due to lack of options - cannot put out a decent flat 4 in midfield as Horgan isn’t able to last very long and is very inconsistent. The wingbacks allows Allan and removes the lopsided diamond that we’ve been playing with Boyle wide on right. I think this is Ross adapting to what is available rather than any long term plans.

The fact you’ve said “if we get anymore out the season than that after our year up til November” is exactly my point - this exact phrase could have been used for the past 3 seasons. Lennon got us going on a rampage after January in relatively poor season up until then, Lennon had poor season and left in strange way for season to be recovered by Hecky, Hecky has terrible season which needs saved by Ross. Why should we be “thoroughly pleased” with this? I’m pleased at not being in relegation fight but thoroughly is pushing it a wee bit. Sacking managers and terminating long term contracts costs money.

I hope big plans are outlined over the next week or so.
What do you mean by big plans? Do you want the owner to plough his own money in to the club, given that he has already spent 3m paying off our mortgage. He could spend another 2m every year and that still wouldn’t guarantee any success. Aberdeen spend 9m on wages and are certainly not a better watch than Hibs. We are far from perfect but along with Motherwell I would say we are as good to watch as any outside the old firm. And yes I did enjoy both the St Mirren and Livingston games despite the awful conditions at the latter. Our attacking formation often leaves our defence exposed so we are always liable to lose a few goals but isn’t that how Hibs fans like their team to play? Lot’s of supporters making threats about season tickets next season, all that does is make the managers job even more difficult.

[Ozyhibby]

What do you mean by big plans? Do you want the owner to plough his own money in to the club, given that he has already spent 3m paying off our mortgage. He could spend another 2m every year and that still wouldn’t guarantee any success. Aberdeen spend 9m on wages and are certainly not a better watch than Hibs. We are far from perfect but along with Motherwell I would say we are as good to watch as any outside the old firm. And yes I did enjoy both the St Mirren and Livingston games despite the awful conditions at the latter. Our attacking formation often leaves our defence exposed so we are always liable to lose a few goals but isn’t that how Hibs fans like their team to play? Lot’s of supporters making threats about season tickets next season, all that does is make the managers job even more difficult.

When was the last time we finished above Aberdeen?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lago]

Can't see there being any earth shattering developments, there is not enough money in Scottish football to make it worth while, think it will be more steady as she goes.

[bigwheel]

When was the last time we finished above Aberdeen?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

2012/13


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk