Netherlands/Belgium Cross Border League

[JeMeSouviens]

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/beneliga-eredivisie-pro-league-merger-tv-rights-deloitte

I think this is the only way clubs outside England/Spain/Germany/France/Italy will ever be able to compete towards the top of European football again. Sadly for Scotland, the only practical merger we could make would be with England who are quite fine without us.

It's bizarre now to think back to a time when Aberdeen and Dundee United were 2 of Europe's leading clubs (and for folk 10 years older than me, Hibs!)

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/beneliga-eredivisie-pro-league-merger-tv-rights-deloitte

I think this is the only way clubs outside England/Spain/Germany/France/Italy will ever be able to compete towards the top of European football again. Sadly for Scotland, the only practical merger we could make would be with England who are quite fine without us.

It's bizarre now to think back to a time when Aberdeen and Dundee United were 2 of Europe's leading clubs (and for folk 10 years older than me, Hibs!)
A Nordic league might work best with Scotland joining the Scandinavian countries.

[Diclonius]

A Nordic league might work best with Scotland joining the Scandinavian countries.

Sadly this will never happen now we are out of the EEA.

[Hibbyradge]

Sadly this will never happen now we are out of the EEA.

I doubt that'll be a factor.

If Israel not to mention Albania, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, and Macedonia, Norway, Russia, Ukraine, Switzerland can all play in the Champions League etc, then there's no reason to stop Scotland playing in another embodiment.

[danhibees1875]

A Nordic league might work best with Scotland joining the Scandinavian countries.

Imagine the cost of an away season ticket!

I don't have any appetite to join our league with any other country.

I wouldn't be against mixing up the league cup though. Every second year there could be a mixed LC between Scotland and England (Wales and NI/Ireland also). Would freshen things up a little I think.

[GloryGlory]

A Nordic league might work best with Scotland joining the Scandinavian countries.

This. :agree:

[DH1875]

England don't want or need us and quite frankly, the thought of some Nordic league does not appeal at all.

[CloudSquall]

I see the "England don't want us" mob are out, would you seriously want to drive hours on end to watch Hibs Vs Rotherham?

[Ozyhibby]

We should try to join that. Scotland can provide 5 good size clubs and a wealthy UK market for advertisers.
It’s in Hibs interest to seek out revenue so that we are no longer being outbid for players by the the like of Burton Albion.


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[makaveli1875]

I see the "England don't want us" mob are out, would you seriously want to drive hours on end to watch Hibs Vs Rotherham?

Cant be any worse than driving hours on end to watch Hibs v Aberdeen or Ross County

[JeMeSouviens]

I see the "England don't want us" mob are out, would you seriously want to drive hours on end to watch Hibs Vs Rotherham?

We are a big city club. With a kick up the revenue backside there's no reason why we shouldn't be at least mid-table Premiership. What about Hibs v Liverpool?

[LaMotta]

A Nordic league might work best with Scotland joining the Scandinavian countries.


This. :agree:

Genuine question - why?!

[JeMeSouviens]

Imagine the cost of an away season ticket!

I don't have any appetite to join our league with any other country.

I wouldn't be against mixing up the league cup though. Every second year there could be a mixed LC between Scotland and England (Wales and NI/Ireland also). Would freshen things up a little I think.

There would be precious little gain from that while sacrificing a cup we could actually win. If we're going to do anything cross border then there has to be a proper reward for it.

[Ozyhibby]

Hibs v Ajax and Anderlecht regularly are Easter road? Yes please.


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[DH1875]

I see the "England don't want us" mob are out, would you seriously want to drive hours on end to watch Hibs Vs Rotherham?

Would rather that than FC Honka, Kalmar FF, Sarpsborg, Randers and the likes in some daft Nordic league.
Given the money down in England, we'd be bigger than half the teams in the EPL.

[Unseen work]

I think it would be good to begin with but would quickly lose the attraction/appeal.

I like the set up as it is with playing in a Scottish league with Scottish teams. Everyone would go to the first couple however after a season of whatever who could afford to travel to these places to support the team?

I think there should be a league reconstruction, extending the league to say 14 teams and scrap the split.

If we can get a strong 14 team league with 2 relegated every season with say both the Dundee clubs back in the league that would do wonders for the league and let’s have proper competition for the 4 European places.

[Carheenlea]

Imagine the cost of an away season ticket!

I don't have any appetite to join our league with any other country.

I wouldn't be against mixing up the league cup though. Every second year there could be a mixed LC between Scotland and England (Wales and NI/Ireland also). Would freshen things up a little I think.

A UK wide League League Cup would be good, but I don’t think the EPL big guns, would be as enthusiastic. The Championship and below would get some appetite for it, or at least the fans would I think, as would Irish, Northern Irish and Welsh clubs. Probably still end up with Liverpool v Manchester City in the final, but after a few excursions away supporters would probably lose interest in it. Not sure it could really be a goer.

[Ozyhibby]

I think it would be good to begin with but would quickly lose the attraction/appeal.

I like the set up as it is with playing in a Scottish league with Scottish teams. Everyone would go to the first couple however after a season of whatever who could afford to travel to these places to support the team?

I think there should be a league reconstruction, extending the league to say 14 teams and scrap the split.

If we can get a strong 14 team league with 2 relegated every season with say both the Dundee clubs back in the league that would do wonders for the league and let’s have proper competition for the 4 European places.

A 14 team is totally unaffordable. It would result in Hibs having to make significant cut backs. We rely on 6 big games v Celtic, Sevco and Hearts. We can’t afford to replace a game v Hearts with a game v Dundee. We have high fixed costs at East Mains and we need a high income to fund it.
Replacing Hamilton with PSV though would def be attractive.
Only a small minority travel to away games regularly, most fans only go to home games.


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[Carheenlea]

A 14 team is totally unaffordable. It would result in Hibs having to make significant cut backs. We rely on 6 big games v Celtic, Sevco and Hearts. We can’t afford to replace a game v Hearts with a game v Dundee. We have high fixed costs at East Mains and we need a high income to fund it.
Replacing Hamilton with PSV though would def be attractive.
Only a small minority travel to away games regularly, most fans only go to home games.


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Around 15% of ST Holders I’d say are regular away day travellers. We are lucky in Scotland that we don’t have long distances to travel and all away matches are easily accessible.

[Ozyhibby]

Around 15% of ST Holders I’d say are regular away day travellers. We are lucky in Scotland that we don’t have long distances to travel and all away matches are easily accessible.

Yip, a small minority.


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[Waxy]

Why shoudnt Scotlands top 5 clubs enter into an atlantic league with say the scandies iceland and holland belgium.
Celtic Rangers Hibs and Aberdeen would do well.Maybe Motherwell too due to league position.

[DH1875]

The idea of some sort of Atlantic league with teams from say Scotland, Belgium, Holland, Sweden, Portugal and Denmark appeals more than a Nordic league. Problem with that though is say each league provided 3 teams giving you an 18 team league, would we even be in it? The rangers and celtic would be stick ons but who would the other team be? Us, Aberdeen, Yams? Couldn't have all 5 as to many and 2 leagues wouldn't work as instead of playing Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord, Porto, Benfica, Sporting Lisbon, Anderlecht, Brugge and Gent we'd be playing Utrecht, Groningen, Willem, Braga, Boavista, Rio Ave, Mechelen, Charleroi and Antwerp.

[Ozyhibby]

Why shoudnt Scotlands top 5 clubs enter into an atlantic league with say the scandies iceland and holland belgium.
Celtic Rangers Hibs and Aberdeen would do well.Maybe Motherwell too due to league position.

Atlantic league
2/ 18 team leagues

Ajax 49,403
Feyenoord 45,419
Celtic 44,849
New Rangers 45,415
PSV 32,465
FC Twente 28,518
Hammarby (Sweden) 25,507
Club Brugge (Belguim) 24,430
Herenveen 24,314
AIK (Sweden) 20,983
Anderlecht 20,675
Genk (Belguim) 20,590
Standard Liege (Belguim) 20,415
Groningen 20,193
NAC Breda 18,112
Rosenborg (Norway) 18,039
Hibs 18,000
Hearts 18,000
Malmo (Sweden) 17,332
Vitesse 17,212
Utrecht 16,646
AZ Alkmaar 15,512
Djurgardens IF (Sweden) 15,484
FC Copenhagen (Denmark) 15,448
Brondby (Denmark) 15,143
IFK Gothenborg (Sweden) 14,350
Aberdeen 13,094
PEC Zwolle 12,213
Willem II 12,099
ADO Den Haag 11,976
IFK Norkoping (Sweden) 10,296
Viking FK (Norway) 10,272
SK Brann (Norway) 10,124
KV Mechelan (Belguim)10,160
Valerenga IF (Norway) 10,099
KAA Gent (Belguim) 10,090

Tv market
Holland 17m
Belguim 11m
Sweden 10m
Denmark 5.6m
Scotland 5.5m
Norway 5.1m
Total 52mi

Posted that a couple of seasons back when Hibs and Hearts crowds were slightly higher. Massive potential there and finances would allow Hibs to bring in a far higher quality of player than we can just now.


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[superfurryhibby]

Atlantic league
2/ 18 team leagues

Ajax 49,403
Feyenoord 45,419
Celtic 44,849
New Rangers 45,415
PSV 32,465
FC Twente 28,518
Hammarby (Sweden) 25,507
Club Brugge (Belguim) 24,430
Herenveen 24,314
AIK (Sweden) 20,983
Anderlecht 20,675
Genk (Belguim) 20,590
Standard Liege (Belguim) 20,415
Groningen 20,193
NAC Breda 18,112
Rosenborg (Norway) 18,039
Hibs 18,000
Hearts 18,000
Malmo (Sweden) 17,332
Vitesse 17,212
Utrecht 16,646
AZ Alkmaar 15,512
Djurgardens IF (Sweden) 15,484
FC Copenhagen (Denmark) 15,448
Brondby (Denmark) 15,143
IFK Gothenborg (Sweden) 14,350
Aberdeen 13,094
PEC Zwolle 12,213
Willem II 12,099
ADO Den Haag 11,976
IFK Norkoping (Sweden) 10,296
Viking FK (Norway) 10,272
SK Brann (Norway) 10,124
KV Mechelan (Belguim)10,160
Valerenga IF (Norway) 10,099
KAA Gent (Belguim) 10,090

Tv market
Holland 17m
Belguim 11m
Sweden 10m
Denmark 5.6m
Scotland 5.5m
Norway 5.1m
Total 52mi

Posted that a couple of seasons back when Hibs and Hearts crowds were slightly higher. Massive potential there and finances would allow Hibs to bring in a far higher quality of player than we can just now.


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A good reminder of how crap our revenues from tv are by comparison to other leagues. I suppose the population size dictates the market.

I would imagine our target will be to compete in a Euefa sanctioned Europa League 2 or the like.

[Ozyhibby]

If Ron Gordon has any plan to make money from Hibs then getting us into a set up like this with the tv revenues involved and then selling the club would be a good way to do it.


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[Moulin Yarns]

I see the "England don't want us" mob are out, would you seriously want to drive hours on end to watch Hibs Vs Rotherham?

How would you need to drive hours to watch Hibs v Rotherham, it's a home game :wink:

[DH1875]

Atlantic league
2/ 18 team leagues

Ajax 49,403
Feyenoord 45,419
Celtic 44,849
New Rangers 45,415
PSV 32,465
FC Twente 28,518
Hammarby (Sweden) 25,507
Club Brugge (Belguim) 24,430
Herenveen 24,314
AIK (Sweden) 20,983
Anderlecht 20,675
Genk (Belguim) 20,590
Standard Liege (Belguim) 20,415
Groningen 20,193
NAC Breda 18,112
Rosenborg (Norway) 18,039
Hibs 18,000
Hearts 18,000
Malmo (Sweden) 17,332
Vitesse 17,212
Utrecht 16,646
AZ Alkmaar 15,512
Djurgardens IF (Sweden) 15,484
FC Copenhagen (Denmark) 15,448
Brondby (Denmark) 15,143
IFK Gothenborg (Sweden) 14,350
Aberdeen 13,094
PEC Zwolle 12,213
Willem II 12,099
ADO Den Haag 11,976
IFK Norkoping (Sweden) 10,296
Viking FK (Norway) 10,272
SK Brann (Norway) 10,124
KV Mechelan (Belguim)10,160
Valerenga IF (Norway) 10,099
KAA Gent (Belguim) 10,090

Tv market
Holland 17m
Belguim 11m
Sweden 10m
Denmark 5.6m
Scotland 5.5m
Norway 5.1m
Total 52mi

Posted that a couple of seasons back when Hibs and Hearts crowds were slightly higher. Massive potential there and finances would allow Hibs to bring in a far higher quality of player than we can just now.


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So my first argument coming to the table would be: Why are Holland getting 13 teams in the league?

[Hibby Bairn]

UEFA is the common “market” not EU. And to be fair to Neil Doncaster his expansion of the Irn Bru Cup (now Tunnocks) was so that a model existed that SPFL could use to demonstrate why Scotland could and should be involved in any broader cross border league developments.

[MWHIBBIES]

I like being able to attend away matches. Would rather watch an average Hibs in an average league every week than an average Hibs in a good league every second week.

[Cataplana]

Football tourism is a massive thing now.

[Ozyhibby]

So my first argument coming to the table would be: Why are Holland getting 13 teams in the league?

More big clubs.


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[Cataplana]

More big clubs.


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They've only got three big clubs.

[Ozyhibby]

They've only got three big clubs.

Can you see any other big clubs from the other nations that I have not included?


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[Lago]

Sadly this will never happen now we are out of the EEA.
Why, Norway is in EEA & Sweden , Denmark are in the EU, I really don't see your point.

[DH1875]

More big clubs.


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More fans doesn't mean bigger club though. Pretty sure clubs like Helsingborgs, Molde, FC Midtylland would have something to say about that.

[Keith_M]

A Nordic league might work best with Scotland joining the Scandinavian countries.


That would be really expensive for away games though.

Especially THIS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troms%C3%B8_IL) one

[Keith_M]

Or how about a wee visit to the Jämtkraft Arena, Östersund in Sweden :greengrin



https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQZQQUqmTayqA3gJrEpC6HwvBgIDRo 615uxltiqOHu8ielx5hCW

[DH1875]

Or how about a wee visit to the Jämtkraft Arena, Östersund in Sweden :greengrin



https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQZQQUqmTayqA3gJrEpC6HwvBgIDRo 615uxltiqOHu8ielx5hCW

Would bring up the question though. Summer or winter football. Don't see the Dutch or Belgians going for summer football.

[JeMeSouviens]

Or how about a wee visit to the Jämtkraft Arena, Östersund in Sweden :greengrin



https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQZQQUqmTayqA3gJrEpC6HwvBgIDRo 615uxltiqOHu8ielx5hCW

Sure that's not Pittodrie?

[B.H.F.C]

Belgium and Holland merging could make sense, fans could jump on a train to an away game most of the time.

I don’t fancy shelling for a flight and going somewhere that is about a tenner a pint to watch my team. Not every second week anyway.

[DH1875]

Sure that's not Pittodrie?

I don't think it's the Jamtkraft Arena. The stands run into each other and it's too oval shaped.

[Ozyhibby]

Belgium and Holland merging could make sense, fans could jump on a train to an away game most of the time.

I don’t fancy shelling for a flight and going somewhere that is about a tenner a pint to watch my team. Not every second week anyway.

All games will be available on TV.


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[B.H.F.C]

All games will be available on TV.


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I prefer going to the game.

[DH1875]

Belgium and Holland merging could make sense, fans could jump on a train to an away game most of the time.



I'm still not convinced. What they gonna do, take the top 8 from the Dutch league and merge it with top 8 of the Belgian league to give you 16 team league. Here's your first problem with that; Heerenveen, Den Haag, Twente, Sparta Rotterdam and ANDERLECHT aren't in top 8 of their leagues. Then does the bottom 8 teams in each division merge to create a new 2nd division? What about teams currently in the 2nd division. They could end up puntted to the 4th division lol.

[B.H.F.C]

I'm still not convinced. What they gonna do, take the top 8 from the Dutch league and merge it with top 8 of the Belgian league to give you 16 team league. Here's your first problem with that; Heerenveen, Den Haag, Twente, Sparta Rotterdam and ANDERLECHT aren't in top 8 of their leagues. Then does the bottom 8 teams in each division merge to create a new 2nd division? What about teams currently in the 2nd division. They could end up puntted to the 4th division lol.

When I say makes sense, I’ve only thought about it from a geographical perspective really. Travel doesn’t hinder it like it would us going to somewhere in the middle of nowhere in Norway.

[JeMeSouviens]

I'm still not convinced. What they gonna do, take the top 8 from the Dutch league and merge it with top 8 of the Belgian league to give you 16 team league. Here's your first problem with that; Heerenveen, Den Haag, Twente, Sparta Rotterdam and ANDERLECHT aren't in top 8 of their leagues. Then does the bottom 8 teams in each division merge to create a new 2nd division? What about teams currently in the 2nd division. They could end up puntted to the 4th division lol.

It would probably be best operated as a top cross-border division with the existing Belgian and Dutch leagues operating as regional geographical feeders with promotion/relegation, like the Highland and Lowland leagues here or the South and North divisions under the English Conference.

[Ozyhibby]

Or just have two leagues of 18 and not bother with relegation from the 2nd league.


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[rotherhamrob]

I see the "England don't want us" mob are out, would you seriously want to drive hours on end to watch Hibs Vs Rotherham?

I'd just walk to the game😎

[Hibbyradge]

A good reminder of how crap our revenues from tv are by comparison to other leagues. I suppose the population size dictates the market.



The TV money in that list mirrors, almost exactly, the population of the countries.

[Hibbyradge]

Or how about a wee visit to the Jämtkraft Arena, Östersund in Sweden :greengrin



https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQZQQUqmTayqA3gJrEpC6HwvBgIDRo 615uxltiqOHu8ielx5hCW

That's a futuristic artist's impression of Sunday at Alloa.

[LaMotta]

There is always a desire for change and grass is greener mentality however.....

The setup now is as exciting as it gets IMO....increase the league size and all you get is too many meaningless games for half the teams.

Every team in the Championship ( apart from maybe Dun utd) will have something to play for for the majority of the season. Premiership with most teams playing for something most of the time.

Maybe I'm missing something with a bigger league? Whats the benefit?

[Keith_M]

That's a futuristic artist's impression of Sunday at Alloa.


That's exactly what it is

:greengrin

[ScottB]

There is always a desire for change and grass is greener mentality however.....

The setup now is as exciting as it gets IMO....increase the league size and all you get is too many meaningless games for half the teams.

Every team in the Championship ( apart from maybe Dun utd) will have something to play for for the majority of the season. Premiership with most teams playing for something most of the time.

Maybe I'm missing something with a bigger league? Whats the benefit?

Stability? In a hypothetical 20 team league, Hibs, Hearts etc would likely never be in danger even during a bad season.

Whether that’s a good thing, might encourage more youth players being used etc I don’t know.

[Ozyhibby]

There is always a desire for change and grass is greener mentality however.....

The setup now is as exciting as it gets IMO....increase the league size and all you get is too many meaningless games for half the teams.

Every team in the Championship ( apart from maybe Dun utd) will have something to play for for the majority of the season. Premiership with most teams playing for something most of the time.

Maybe I'm missing something with a bigger league? Whats the benefit?

It’s about more money. Right now Hibs are competing with league 1/ league 2 teams for players. Move to a league like that and maybe we start competing with the championship teams for players in line with our size. It’s about us being able to watch better quality footballers. Maybe being able to keep players like John Mcginn.


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[Cataplana]

Can you see any other big clubs from the other nations that I have not included?


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No, but I think it's important that Hibs don't see themselves as to small for such a league.

[Ozyhibby]

No, but I think it's important that Hibs don't see themselves as to small for such a league.

Absolutely. We have massive potential.


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[judas]

We should try to join that. Scotland can provide 5 good size clubs and a wealthy UK market for advertisers.
It’s in Hibs interest to seek out revenue so that we are no longer being outbid for players by the the like of Burton Albion.


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That’s true. Scotland could easily put Hibs, Rangers, Celtic, Aberdeen and Dundee Utd.

They’ve all progressed far in a major European competition more than once

[Carheenlea]

Or how about a wee visit to the Jämtkraft Arena, Östersund in Sweden :greengrin



https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQZQQUqmTayqA3gJrEpC6HwvBgIDRo 615uxltiqOHu8ielx5hCW

That’s from Buffalo Bills v Indianapolis Colts, have seen that picture shared before. A long way from Östersund, but probably still be wanting to take a jacket with you for the game.

[DH1875]

No, but I think it's important that Hibs don't see themselves as to small for such a league.

He missed FC Midtjylland off the list who where runners up in the Danish league last season and WINNERS the season before. He also missed Molde who are current Norwegian champions and were runners up for the 2 seasons before that. Don't think these teams and others would see themselves as small fry when it came to a league like this and would probably have something to say about it.

[DH1875]

I don't think it's the Jamtkraft Arena. The stands run into each other and it's too oval shaped.


That’s from Buffalo Bills v Indianapolis Colts, have seen that picture shared before. A long way from Östersund, but probably still be wanting to take a jacket with you for the game.

Knew it wasn't the Jamtkraft Arena :aok:

[Ozyhibby]

He missed FC Midtjylland off the list who where runners up in the Danish league last season and WINNERS the season before. He also missed Molde who are current Norwegian champions and were runners up for the 2 seasons before that. Don't think these teams and others would see themselves as small fry when it came to a league like this and would probably have something to say about it.

And that’s perfectly fine. It’s up to them to make their case. I doubt all the Scandinavian nations would take part anyway. As was pointed out earlier, some of them play summer football.
I think this will happen eventually. Teams like Celtic, Ajax are being outbid for players by much smaller clubs. They would be failing their fans and owners if they didn’t look to fix this. It’s the same for Hibs.


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[Eyrie]

Stability? In a hypothetical 20 team league, Hibs, Hearts etc would likely never be in danger even during a bad season.

Whether that’s a good thing, might encourage more youth players being used etc I don’t know.

It's a bad thing financially.

We'd be losing a second home game against Hearts, Aberdeen, Celtc and Sevco so we could get home games with Dundee United, inverness, Dunfermline and Ayr. Not only would we have reduced attendances in the replacement fixtures but there would be less incentive to get a season ticket because it would be easier to walk up. But how many walk ups would we get for Ross County at home in mid-February when we've little chance of making Europe and realistically are waiting for the close season?

[NAE NOOKIE]

The tragedy of all this is that the clear and obvious link up for Scotland's league would be Ireland.

Dublin metropolitan area, population ... 1,800,000

Belfast metropolitan area, population ... 672,000

Cork ... 198,000

Limerick ... 91,000

Londonderry ... 85,000 ... A city which at one time not so long ago attracted crowds of 10,000 to watch its team play in a dump.

Galway ... 76,000

Get two teams from Dublin, two from Belfast and one each from the others and you would have 8 clubs right there. Two of them potentially as big as the old firm and two at least as big as Hibs and Hearts.

Irish football is woeful at the moment, even the biggest Dublin clubs don't measure up to Hibs by some distance. But with the right development plan merging some Dublin and Belfast clubs and with one club each from the other Irish cities on the list and putting them in a league containing Celtic, Sevco, Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen and three other Scottish clubs you could have something. With the backing of SKY, BT sport and the national broadcasters you could have a really strong league.

You would have a TV audience of potentially 10,000,000 and if the money was right the possibility to attract a far higher standard of player to the league, increasing interest in global TV rights.

If it wasn't for Ireland's obsession with English football and the obvious political problems perhaps this fantasy could have been a reality, or at least worth looking into .... such a shame :rolleyes:

[Ozyhibby]

The tragedy of all this is that the clear and obvious link up for Scotland's league would be Ireland.

Dublin metropolitan area, population ... 1,800,000

Belfast metropolitan area, population ... 672,000

Cork ... 198,000

Limerick ... 91,000

Londonderry ... 85,000 ... A city which at one time not so long ago attracted crowds of 10,000 to watch its team play in a dump.

Galway ... 76,000

Get two teams from Dublin, two from Belfast and one each from the others and you would have 8 clubs right there. Two of them potentially as big as the old firm and two at least as big as Hibs and Hearts.

Irish football is woeful at the moment, even the biggest Dublin clubs don't measure up to Hibs by some distance. But with the right development plan merging some Dublin and Belfast clubs and with one club each from the other Irish cities on the list and putting them in a league containing Celtic, Sevco, Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen and three other Scottish clubs you could have something. With the backing of SKY, BT sport and the national broadcasters you could have a really strong league.

You would have a TV audience of potentially 10,000,000 and if the money was right the possibility to attract a far higher standard of player to the league, increasing interest in global TV rights.

If it wasn't for Ireland's obsession with English football and the obvious political problems perhaps this fantasy could have been a reality, or at least worth looking into .... such a shame :rolleyes:

I think the idea is bring in bigger clubs, not a load of teams with crowds in line with Dunfermline. Football is a TV sport in Ireland. They are only interested in watching the EPL. The might start watching an Atlantic league but it would be to watch Celtic, not one of their own teams.


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[mayo hibee]

There's a lot more to it than just the popularity of English football. Soccer is only one of four popular team sports in Ireland, it's not the dominant sport like it is in Scotland - turn on a TV or radio sports bulletin in Ireland and it will often be well down the order of sports covered, unlike here where it is always top.

There are actually proposals to merge the ROI and NI leagues under discussion at the moment. However, my opinion is that if you merge two **** leagues into one all you end up with is one **** league so I don't really see the point of it.

I don't think there's any benefit to or prospect of the Irish and Scottish leagues ever merging.

[hibbysam]

I think the idea is bring in bigger clubs, not a load of teams with crowds in line with Dunfermline. Football is a TV sport in Ireland. They are only interested in watching the EPL. The might start watching an Atlantic league but it would be to watch Celtic, not one of their own teams.


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If it was all about doing anything possible to make more money why not just go full Mercer and join Hibs and hearts together? You want a closed shop with none of the smaller teams and no relegation etc, be as well going full American and just having franchises each year. ‘Games will be on tv’ was your reply to one of the issues around travel, again utterly ***** for the diehard, but if it’s convenient for the armchair fans then that’s all that matters. Novelty would wear off after the first year and it would be an absolutely dreadful idea kicking about the lower echelons of some multi country league with nothing to play for year on year.

[JimBHibees]

So what would happen to the teams not in this league, name luck buds, stuff you sort of approach.:rolleyes:

[DH1875]

So what would happen to the teams not in this league, name luck buds, stuff you sort of approach.:rolleyes:

I kinda made the point earlier. Let's say Scotland, Holland, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Denmark go ahead and set us this league with 3 teams each for your 18 team league. We wouldn't even be in it lol. What do we do when the Aberdeen and the 2 uglies disappear taking what little money there is in Scottish football with them.

[Ozyhibby]

If it was all about doing anything possible to make more money why not just go full Mercer and join Hibs and hearts together? You want a closed shop with none of the smaller teams and no relegation etc, be as well going full American and just having franchises each year. ‘Games will be on tv’ was your reply to one of the issues around travel, again utterly ***** for the diehard, but if it’s convenient for the armchair fans then that’s all that matters. Novelty would wear off after the first year and it would be an absolutely dreadful idea kicking about the lower echelons of some multi country league with nothing to play for year on year.

Be nice to be able to watch players of the quality of John Mcginn for a bit longer though.
There will still be four away games in Scotland and with cheap flight there will still be some cracking away trips to be had.
Why should teams like Watford and Bournemouth be able to sign the quality of players they do? Why shouldn’t Hibs be able to match that? Why do people want Hibs to continue to struggle to compete with teams from across Europe? People are already saying that Kevin Nisbett is out of our price range now. Lawrence Shankland. Twenty years ago that would not have been the case but now these guys are liable to get a better offer from Burton Albion. Are we to keep watching as we start to get outbid by non league teams?
Scottish teams are struggling to compete because we don’t have access to the tv money if other nations. And it means the Scottish public has to watch an inferior product to the public in England. Why should we accept that?



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[chippy]

I kinda made the point earlier. Let's say Scotland, Holland, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Denmark go ahead and set us this league with 3 teams each for your 18 team league. We wouldn't even be in it lol. What do we do when the Aberdeen and the 2 uglies disappear taking what little money there is in Scottish football with them.
I agree with Ozy. Have 2 divisions of 20 teams each do that could accommodate 6-8 Scottish clubs. We could still keep the Scottish leagues but our 2nd team could play in that includes youth. Hibs , Hearts, Dons potential could be realised. Big crowds, big TV deal, better players

[Eyrie]

Be nice to be able to watch players of the quality of John Mcginn for a bit longer though.
There will still be four away games in Scotland and with cheap flight there will still be some cracking away trips to be had.
Why should teams like Watford and Bournemouth be able to sign the quality of players they do? Why shouldn’t Hibs be able to match that? Why do people want Hibs to continue to struggle to compete with teams from across Europe? People are already saying that Kevin Nisbett is out of our price range now. Lawrence Shankland. Twenty years ago that would not have been the case but now these guys are liable to get a better offer from Burton Albion. Are we to keep watching as we start to get outbid by non league teams?
Scottish teams are struggling to compete because we don’t have access to the tv money if other nations. And it means the Scottish public has to watch an inferior product to the public in England. Why should we accept that?


You're assuming that Scotland gets five places in your six nation league.

If Scotland gets three, then Hibs will be one of the teams left behind in our national league with even less money and less appeal to offer players.

If Scotland gets five, then we're more likely to be stuck in lower/mid-table ennui than competing for the title or European places. Remember that your proposed league has to offer benefits to the Dutch, Belgian, Norwegian, Swedish and Danish clubs and they're not going to sign up to be our cannon fodder.

[Ozyhibby]

You're assuming that Scotland gets five places in your six nation league.

If Scotland gets three, then Hibs will be one of the teams left behind in our national league with even less money and less appeal to offer players.

If Scotland gets five, then we're more likely to be stuck in lower/mid-table ennui than competing for the title or European places. Remember that your proposed league has to offer benefits to the Dutch, Belgian, Norwegian, Swedish and Danish clubs and they're not going to sign up to be our cannon fodder.

Of course not but our top 5 clubs are big enough to be in there. We get crowds that a lot of the Scandinavian clubs could only dream of. I put a list of the clubs above with average attendances. We more than hold our own.


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[hibbysam]

Of course not but our top 5 clubs are big enough to be in there. We get crowds that a lot of the Scandinavian clubs could only dream of. I put a list of the clubs above with average attendances. We more than hold our own.


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After 2 years of finishing in the lower ends of this fantasy league with absolutely no hope of Europe, no chance in cups, our attendances will be down lower than they were before, simple as that. Players won’t be coming to us as there would be no reason for them to.

[Ozyhibby]

After 2 years of finishing in the lower ends of this fantasy league with absolutely no hope of Europe, no chance in cups, our attendances will be down lower than they were before, simple as that. Players won’t be coming to us as there would be no reason for them to.

Given the extra £30-40m a year budget for players we may have and the regular visits of top European clubs with the world class players that they could afford, you think attendances at Easter road would fall?
When we could afford to keep our best players and bring in players of the quality that Celtic can presently afford? Players like Edourd, Dembele etc? You think the Edinburgh public would turn their back on that?


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[EI255]

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/beneliga-eredivisie-pro-league-merger-tv-rights-deloitte

I think this is the only way clubs outside England/Spain/Germany/France/Italy will ever be able to compete towards the top of European football again. Sadly for Scotland, the only practical merger we could make would be with England who are quite fine without us.

It's bizarre now to think back to a time when Aberdeen and Dundee United were 2 of Europe's leading clubs (and for folk 10 years older than me, Hibs!)And the annoying thing is, most English clubs couldn't give a monkeys about the Europa League (until the semi or final).

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[Billy McKirdy]

I would think we could do well if we moved into the English set up, definitely a potential premiership side, for years it’s been obvious that the two cheeks want to be there and it will happen eventually, when it does we should follow them, I’m not a unionist in any way but this is the only logical way to allow clubs like our to develop beyond our size.
The current set up is not the way forward

[Ozyhibby]

I would think we could do well if we moved into the English set up, definitely a potential premiership side, for years it’s been obvious that the two cheeks want to be there and it will happen eventually, when it does we should follow them, I’m not a unionist in any way but this is the only logical way to allow clubs like our to develop beyond our size.
The current set up is not the way forward

I would prefer we went our own way with other small nations.


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[DH1875]

I agree with Ozy. Have 2 divisions of 20 teams each do that could accommodate 6-8 Scottish clubs. We could still keep the Scottish leagues but our 2nd team could play in that includes youth. Hibs , Hearts, Dons potential could be realised. Big crowds, big TV deal, better players

We'd be playing 2nd division football against a load of dross.

[hibbysam]

Given the extra £30-40m a year budget for players we may have and the regular visits of top European clubs with the world class players that they could afford, you think attendances at Easter road would fall?
When we could afford to keep our best players and bring in players of the quality that Celtic can presently afford? Players like Edourd, Dembele etc? You think the Edinburgh public would turn their back on that?

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You think our club would make £40m more per year 😂 aye because this league of about 20 teams is going to generate nearly £1bn more than clubs already get, like I said, fantasy land. We won’t be getting any top European clubs coming knocking, we would never be in Europe to get them. We would have the same clubs year on year, with zero chance of doing anything. Simple as that!

[Ozyhibby]

We'd be playing 2nd division football against a load of dross.

Even if all 6 nations were involved (and I doubt they all would) we would still be the 17th biggest club by attendances. Why would we have to be in the 2nd division?
We must be the only club in football where the fans are less ambitious than the board.[emoji23]


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[Onceinawhile]

The idea of some sort of Atlantic league with teams from say Scotland, Belgium, Holland, Sweden, Portugal and Denmark appeals more than a Nordic league. Problem with that though is say each league provided 3 teams giving you an 18 team league, would we even be in it? The rangers and celtic would be stick ons but who would the other team be? Us, Aberdeen, Yams? Couldn't have all 5 as to many and 2 leagues wouldn't work as instead of playing Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord, Porto, Benfica, Sporting Lisbon, Anderlecht, Brugge and Gent we'd be playing Utrecht, Groningen, Willem, Braga, Boavista, Rio Ave, Mechelen, Charleroi and Antwerp.

Nothing wrong with current cup finalists, europa league qualifiers and 3rd in the league Royal antwerp.

Great club with a great history.

[Ozyhibby]

You think our club would make £40m more per year [emoji23] aye because this league of about 20 teams is going to generate nearly £1bn more than clubs already get, like I said, fantasy land. We won’t be getting any top European clubs coming knocking, we would never be in Europe to get them. We would have the same clubs year on year, with zero chance of doing anything. Simple as that!

The article said that the Dutch Belgium version could expect £400 a season. Add in Scotland and say Denmark and would it be far reached to get £500m? Divide that by 18. £28m per club. Add in all the extra investment that would follow the new set up, and commercial revenue from playing in front of a much larger market. Not hard to see.


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[DH1875]

Of course not but our top 5 clubs are big enough to be in there. We get crowds that a lot of the Scandinavian clubs could only dream of. I put a list of the clubs above with average attendances. We more than hold our own.


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Your list is flawed though. It doesn't include the current Norwegian champions or the Danish team who in the last 3 years have won the league and finished runners up twice. At the same time you've 13 Dutch teams who's adverage is only so high cause they play PSV, Ajax and Feyenoord. The same argument that could maybe be labelled at us from the Danish, Norwegian and Swedish leagues.

[Phil MaGlass]

A Euro league with Belgium and Holland in it would be attractive, but, without them, forget it.
If this merger between them goes ahead, they will rake it in. Pity nobody moved on the Euro league earlier.....all talk no action.

[Ozyhibby]

A Euro league with Belgium and Holland in it would be attractive, but, without them, forget it.
If this merger between them goes ahead, they will rake it in. Pity nobody moved on the Euro league earlier.....all talk no action.

I agree, they are key which is why I think we should act. Even if it was just Scotland, Holland and Belgium it would be attractive.


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[hibbysam]

The article said that the Dutch Belgium version could expect £400 a season. Add in Scotland and say Denmark and would it be far reached to get £500m? Divide that by 18. £28m per club. Add in all the extra investment that would follow the new set up, and commercial revenue from playing in front of a much larger market. Not hard to see.


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What European giants are coming though? We’ll finish in the bottom half of the league, probably closer to getting relegated (if there is relegation), your honestly at the ham if you think we’re getting £40m a season more than we currently do, which will have us competing with teams who either do/or would wipe the floor with us already, when they’d be making all those fortunes more also. And even at that amount it’s still hundreds of millions short of the top European leagues bottom sides. But at least we’ll have a wee bit more money to ***** on players and that’ll make us sell out year on year.

[DH1875]

Nothing wrong with current cup finalists, europa league qualifiers and 3rd in the league Royal antwerp.

Great club with a great history.

Nothing, just using them to illustrate a point :aok:

They wouldn't make it anyway. Their crowds are too low :wink:

[Ozyhibby]

What European giants are coming though? We’ll finish in the bottom half of the league, probably closer to getting relegated (if there is relegation), your honestly at the ham if you think we’re getting £40m a season more than we currently do, which will have us competing with teams who either do/or would wipe the floor with us already, when they’d be making all those fortunes more also. And even at that amount it’s still hundreds of millions short of the top European leagues bottom sides. But at least we’ll have a wee bit more money to ***** on players and that’ll make us sell out year on year.

Your advocating the status quo that has seen us fall dramatically over the last 30 years against every other country in Europe. How far do you think we will fall before we bottom out?


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[hibbysam]

Your advocating the status quo that has seen us fall dramatically over the last 30 years against every other country in Europe. How far do you think we will fall before we bottom out?


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Nobody is advocating the ‘status quo’ but give me this set up than a closed shop and us competing for absolutely **** all for the next 50’years of my life, just because we will get a few bob more. What we need now is people running our game with a clue, and able to get the most into our product, not us jumping ship - and btw, who’s to say they’d even want us, im sure you’d be delighted then - and leaving the rest of the smaller clubs behind. Our game is actually well and truly on the up, the introduction of the pyramid structure, clubs going deep into Europe, and you want to chuck that away for the sake of a closed shop league where we finish bottom half year on year. Each to their own.

[Ozyhibby]

Nobody is advocating the ‘status quo’ but give me this set up than a closed shop and us competing for absolutely **** all for the next 50’years of my life, just because we will get a few bob more. What we need now is people running our game with a clue, and able to get the most into our product, not us jumping ship - and btw, who’s to say they’d even want us, im sure you’d be delighted then - and leaving the rest of the smaller clubs behind. Our game is actually well and truly on the up, the introduction of the pyramid structure, clubs going deep into Europe, and you want to chuck that away for the sake of a closed shop league where we finish bottom half year on year. Each to their own.

Our game is not on the up. We fall further behind every year. Celtic and Rangers have managed to do well in Europe but in a much expanded lesser competition than they would have competed in in the past. The rest get regularly knocked out by much smaller clubs.
There could still be national cup competitions. We haven’t competed for the league in the last 50 years but you think not competing for it in the next 50 should prevent us giving it a try?


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[DH1875]

What European giants are coming though? We’ll finish in the bottom half of the league, probably closer to getting relegated (if there is relegation), your honestly at the ham if you think we’re getting £40m a season more than we currently do, which will have us competing with teams who either do/or would wipe the floor with us already, when they’d be making all those fortunes more also. And even at that amount it’s still hundreds of millions short of the top European leagues bottom sides. But at least we’ll have a wee bit more money to ***** on players and that’ll make us sell out year on year.

Like I said earlier. We wouldn't even be in the top league. Taking Hibs out of it, I could see the appeal to other nations/TV companies etc.....if they could get the Portuguese involved. A league of;

Porto
Benfica
Sporting Lisbon
PSV
Ajax
Feyenoord.
Anderlecht
Brugge
Genk
Malmo
Stockholm
Gothenburg
Bronby
Copenhagen
Midtjylland
Rosenburg
Molde
Brann
Celtic
The rangers

Would appeal to many but does nothing for us.

[Since90+2]

The tragedy of all this is that the clear and obvious link up for Scotland's league would be Ireland.

Dublin metropolitan area, population ... 1,800,000

Belfast metropolitan area, population ... 672,000

Cork ... 198,000

Limerick ... 91,000

Londonderry ... 85,000 ... A city which at one time not so long ago attracted crowds of 10,000 to watch its team play in a dump.

Galway ... 76,000

Get two teams from Dublin, two from Belfast and one each from the others and you would have 8 clubs right there. Two of them potentially as big as the old firm and two at least as big as Hibs and Hearts.

Irish football is woeful at the moment, even the biggest Dublin clubs don't measure up to Hibs by some distance. But with the right development plan merging some Dublin and Belfast clubs and with one club each from the other Irish cities on the list and putting them in a league containing Celtic, Sevco, Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen and three other Scottish clubs you could have something. With the backing of SKY, BT sport and the national broadcasters you could have a really strong league.

You would have a TV audience of potentially 10,000,000 and if the money was right the possibility to attract a far higher standard of player to the league, increasing interest in global TV rights.

If it wasn't for Ireland's obsession with English football and the obvious political problems perhaps this fantasy could have been a reality, or at least worth looking into .... such a shame :rolleyes:

You can't just chuck teams together like that expect to create football teams (especially as big as Celtic and Rangers). It's not as simple as that.

[Yorkshire HFC]

[QUOTE=Ozyhibby;6076495]I would prefer we went our own way with other small nations.


For what benefit? Despite everything, I think the SPL is a great league.

[Ozyhibby]

Like I said earlier. We wouldn't even be in the top league. Taking Hibs out of it, I could see the appeal to other nations/TV companies etc.....if they could get the Portuguese involved. A league of;

Porto
Benfica
Sporting Lisbon
PSV
Ajax
Feyenoord.
Anderlecht
Brugge
Genk
Malmo
Stockholm
Gothenburg
Bronby
Copenhagen
Midtjylland
Rosenburg
Molde
Brann
Celtic
The rangers

Would appeal to many but does nothing for us.

I suppose if you are going to add extra countries in then eventually we won’t be in it.
And why should Brann be in there and not us?


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[superfurryhibby]

Like I said earlier. We wouldn't even be in the top league. Taking Hibs out of it, I could see the appeal to other nations/TV companies etc.....if they could get the Portuguese involved. A league of;

Porto
Benfica
Sporting Lisbon
PSV
Ajax
Feyenoord.
Anderlecht
Brugge
Genk
Malmo
Stockholm
Gothenburg
Bronby
Copenhagen
Midtjylland
Rosenburg
Molde
Brann
Celtic
The rangers

Would appeal to many but does nothing for us.

The appeal this kind of League would surely be very limited. I wonder what the TV viewing figures are for the Europa League, particularly fixtures involving less well known teams?

[hibbysam]

Our game is not on the up. We fall further behind every year. Celtic and Rangers have managed to do well in Europe but in a much expanded lesser competition than they would have competed in in the past. The rest get regularly knocked out by much smaller clubs.
There could still be national cup competitions. We haven’t competed for the league in the last 50 years but you think not competing for it in the next 50 should prevent us giving it a try?


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Further behind who? Our coefficient is far higher now than it was 5 years ago. We are on the verge of getting a second champions league place. Regardless of who is responsible for that, it impacts us all. You can have your opinion, I’ll have mine. Ps you couldn’t play in a national cup competition while competing in a completely separate league, and even if you did, the rest of the clubs would be amateur as our game would be dead.

[Antifa Hibs]

Interesting proposal.

Anyone know how fans of Belgian and Dutch teams are taking to it?

[Ozyhibby]

Further behind who? Our coefficient is far higher now than it was 5 years ago. We are on the verge of getting a second champions league place. Regardless of who is responsible for that, it impacts us all. You can have your opinion, I’ll have mine. Ps you couldn’t play in a national cup competition while competing in a completely separate league, and even if you did, the rest of the clubs would be amateur as our game would be dead.

Our coefficient is higher than 5 years ago because Rangers were not playing in Europe 5 years ago.
How’s it doing compared to 20 or 30 years ago.
The Scottish game is not on the up.


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[Ozyhibby]

Interesting proposal.

Anyone know how fans of Belgian and Dutch teams are taking to it?

They recently had a meeting about it so they must be reasonably open to the idea.


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[DH1875]

I suppose if you are going to add extra countries in then eventually we won’t be in it.
And why should Brann be in there and not us?


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And why should we be there and not Aberdeen or hearts. OK set up a league that takes the 5 of us. What do you think Motherwell and Killie will say to that. What have hearts or Aberdeen done in past 10 years that Motherwell haven't. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, you'll have the same argument when it comes to who stays and who goes.

[Ozyhibby]

And why should we be there and not Aberdeen or hearts. OK set up a league that takes the 5 of us. What do you think Motherwell and Killie will say to that. What have hearts or Aberdeen done in past 10 years that Motherwell haven't. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, you'll have the same argument when it comes to who stays and who goes.

I’m not saying clubs won’t be left behind, I’m saying I don’t want it to be us.
This will happen whether we like it or not. It’s better to accept it early and try shape it rather than wait and be left behind.
Ajax, Celtic, Feyenoord, Sevco etc are all massive clubs who are currently losing players to clubs half their size because they play at the bottom of big leagues. They will make the move sooner rather than later. If Hibs get left behind then our current business model wouldn’t survive. East Mains would likely have to go and the players we could afford would drop another level.


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[jacomo]

A UK wide League League Cup would be good, but I don’t think the EPL big guns, would be as enthusiastic. The Championship and below would get some appetite for it, or at least the fans would I think, as would Irish, Northern Irish and Welsh clubs. Probably still end up with Liverpool v Manchester City in the final, but after a few excursions away supporters would probably lose interest in it. Not sure it could really be a goer.


The big English clubs would abandon the league cup altogether given the choice. But if they entered 2nd string teams it might work.

[Keith_M]

I don't think it's the Jamtkraft Arena. The stands run into each other and it's too oval shaped.


TBF, it was for illustrative purpose only.

:)

[heidtheba]

I remember reading an article years ago where some journalist, albeit jokingly, suggested a Northern UK league where we'd be joined by Middlesborough, Sunderland and Newcastle.
I quite liked that idea...

[Ozyhibby]

I remember reading an article years ago where some journalist, albeit jokingly, suggested a Northern UK league where we'd be joined by Middlesborough, Sunderland and Newcastle.
I quite liked that idea...

Just could never happen because of the riches already in the English game. The Welsh teams would never consider it because of the money they make there as well.



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[Bishop Hibee]

Switching to a 16 team top league in Scotland with a midweek/some weekends Euro league/cup with teams from countries frozen out by TV should be seriously looked at. I doubt the OF would go for it or teams like Ross County and Hamilton who would be struggling to make the Euro League and would miss the second OF home fixture. Must be some way if fresh I g things up and increasing revenues.

[Eyrie]

I’m not saying clubs won’t be left behind, I’m saying I don’t want it to be us.
This will happen whether we like it or not. It’s better to accept it early and try shape it rather than wait and be left behind.
Ajax, Celtic, Feyenoord, Sevco etc are all massive clubs who are currently losing players to clubs half their size because they play at the bottom of big leagues. They will make the move sooner rather than later. If Hibs get left behind then our current business model wouldn’t survive. East Mains would likely have to go and the players we could afford would drop another level.

At the moment we're also rans for the league title behind Celtc and Sevco, but at least have a chance of European football and cup wins to keep us interested.

Adding the big Belgian/Danish/Dutch/Norwegian/Swedish clubs will deprive us of even those targets because those teams will strengthen as much as we will, so there will be no net benefit to Hibs.

If your fantasy North Sea league comes to pass, I'd rather be competing with Aberdeen, Hearts and whoever does well that season for a domestic title and cups than struggling in the bottom half of the top NSL or hoping for promotion from its second tier.

[Ozyhibby]

At the moment we're also rans for the league title behind Celtc and Sevco, but at least have a chance of European football and cup wins to keep us interested.

Adding the big Belgian/Danish/Dutch/Norwegian/Swedish clubs will deprive us of even those targets because those teams will strengthen as much as we will, so there will be no net benefit to Hibs.

If your fantasy North Sea league comes to pass, I'd rather be competing with Aberdeen, Hearts and whoever does well that season for a domestic title and cups than struggling in the bottom half of the top NSL or hoping for promotion from its second tier.

Do you think Hibs, with the infrastructure we have to support, could survive financially in a league that has no Rangers and Celtic?


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[greenlex]

Do you think Hibs, with the infrastructure we have to support, could survive financially in a league that has no Rangers and Celtic?


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If we were up there challenging then yes. I’m certain we would be too.

[Ozyhibby]

If we were up there challenging then yes. I’m certain we would be too.

We should certainly expect to be doing well but with greatly reduced tv money and no longer playing at the highest level in Scotland I would think our ability to attract players would take another hit.


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[lord bunberry]

I’ve absolutely no interest in hibs joining an Atlantic league, it doesn’t get me excited one little bit. The only realistic tie up we could do is with Ireland, but their teams in their current form wouldn’t add anything to our league. I know the rugby teams have been successful in playing as regions, maybe the football teams could go down that road, if they wanted to grow the game over there.

[Eyrie]

We should certainly expect to be doing well but with greatly reduced tv money and no longer playing at the highest level in Scotland I would think our ability to attract players would take another hit.

So you would prefer us to have more money and better players to finish in the bottom half of your North Sea top flight or get promoted from the second tier.

I'd prefer to watch us have a chance of winning trophies, even if that means the standard of football isn't as good.

Each to their own.

[DH1875]

TBF, it was for illustrative purpose only.

:)


False advertising lol.

[Hibs07p]

It's not just England that don't want them / us, neither does the Atlantic League apparently.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5697501/celtic-rangers-blow-dutch-belgian-cross-border-league/

NOT IN OUR LEAGUE Celtic and Rangers blow as Dutch and Belgian sides launch new cross border league plan – but Scottish clubs aren’t in it
Mark Walker
13 Jun 2020, 10:36
DUTCH and Belgian clubs have launched a new proposal to play in a money-spinning cross-border league - but have ditched long-standing plans to include Scottish teams.

Proposals for an Atlantic League were first discussed 18 years ago and have been resurrected on three separate occasions since then, with the likes of Celtic and Rangers regularly involved in the talks.

Ajax remain a huge draw
2
Ajax remain a huge drawCredit: Getty Images - Getty
The latest plan was announced in 2016 with clubs from Scotland, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland meeting to discuss a proposal from FC Copenhagen.

But the coronavirus pandemic, which has seen both Belgium and the Netherlands join Scotland in cancelling their season, has led to a new plan to launch an 18-team league in the Low Countries.

Five clubs in Belgium - Gent, Anderlecht, Club Brugge, Genk and Standard Liege and six in the Netherlands - Ajax, Feyenoord, PSV Eindhoven, AZ Alkmaar, Utrecht and Vitesse Arnhem - have funded a feasibility study by research agency Deloitte.

Anderlecht player/boss Vincent Kompany
2
Anderlecht player/boss Vincent KompanyCredit: Getty - Contributor
The BeNeLiga would feature ten Dutch and eight Belgian clubs and the study has shown that it would expect to raise around £300 million in TV and sponsorship deals, which would put it in the Big Five leagues of Europe and overtake France's Ligue 1.



Copenhagen's plans four years ago was prompted by proposed changes in the Champions League, but the proposals failed to gather enough support.

GGTTH
Scottish Cup Winners 2016

[CentreLine]

It's not just England that don't want them / us, neither does the Atlantic League apparently.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5697501/celtic-rangers-blow-dutch-belgian-cross-border-league/

NOT IN OUR LEAGUE Celtic and Rangers blow as Dutch and Belgian sides launch new cross border league plan – but Scottish clubs aren’t in it
Mark Walker
13 Jun 2020, 10:36
DUTCH and Belgian clubs have launched a new proposal to play in a money-spinning cross-border league - but have ditched long-standing plans to include Scottish teams.

Proposals for an Atlantic League were first discussed 18 years ago and have been resurrected on three separate occasions since then, with the likes of Celtic and Rangers regularly involved in the talks.

Ajax remain a huge draw
2
Ajax remain a huge drawCredit: Getty Images - Getty
The latest plan was announced in 2016 with clubs from Scotland, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland meeting to discuss a proposal from FC Copenhagen.

But the coronavirus pandemic, which has seen both Belgium and the Netherlands join Scotland in cancelling their season, has led to a new plan to launch an 18-team league in the Low Countries.

Five clubs in Belgium - Gent, Anderlecht, Club Brugge, Genk and Standard Liege and six in the Netherlands - Ajax, Feyenoord, PSV Eindhoven, AZ Alkmaar, Utrecht and Vitesse Arnhem - have funded a feasibility study by research agency Deloitte.

Anderlecht player/boss Vincent Kompany
2
Anderlecht player/boss Vincent KompanyCredit: Getty - Contributor
The BeNeLiga would feature ten Dutch and eight Belgian clubs and the study has shown that it would expect to raise around £300 million in TV and sponsorship deals, which would put it in the Big Five leagues of Europe and overtake France's Ligue 1.



Copenhagen's plans four years ago was prompted by proposed changes in the Champions League, but the proposals failed to gather enough support.

GGTTH
Scottish Cup Winners 2016

Finally a plus point for Brexit eh?!!

[Ozyhibby]

It's not just England that don't want them / us, neither does the Atlantic League apparently.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5697501/celtic-rangers-blow-dutch-belgian-cross-border-league/

NOT IN OUR LEAGUE Celtic and Rangers blow as Dutch and Belgian sides launch new cross border league plan – but Scottish clubs aren’t in it
Mark Walker
13 Jun 2020, 10:36
DUTCH and Belgian clubs have launched a new proposal to play in a money-spinning cross-border league - but have ditched long-standing plans to include Scottish teams.

Proposals for an Atlantic League were first discussed 18 years ago and have been resurrected on three separate occasions since then, with the likes of Celtic and Rangers regularly involved in the talks.

Ajax remain a huge draw
2
Ajax remain a huge drawCredit: Getty Images - Getty
The latest plan was announced in 2016 with clubs from Scotland, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland meeting to discuss a proposal from FC Copenhagen.

But the coronavirus pandemic, which has seen both Belgium and the Netherlands join Scotland in cancelling their season, has led to a new plan to launch an 18-team league in the Low Countries.

Five clubs in Belgium - Gent, Anderlecht, Club Brugge, Genk and Standard Liege and six in the Netherlands - Ajax, Feyenoord, PSV Eindhoven, AZ Alkmaar, Utrecht and Vitesse Arnhem - have funded a feasibility study by research agency Deloitte.

Anderlecht player/boss Vincent Kompany
2
Anderlecht player/boss Vincent KompanyCredit: Getty - Contributor
The BeNeLiga would feature ten Dutch and eight Belgian clubs and the study has shown that it would expect to raise around £300 million in TV and sponsorship deals, which would put it in the Big Five leagues of Europe and overtake France's Ligue 1.



Copenhagen's plans four years ago was prompted by proposed changes in the Champions League, but the proposals failed to gather enough support.

GGTTH
Scottish Cup Winners 2016

Change is coming to European football. I’d rather Hibs were part of it than left behind.


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[Phil MaGlass]

I live in Holland and have never read one paper or seen one news article saying "Not in our league".
They may have had discussions, and it certainly was not the corona virus that put the brakes on it.
Probably just a meeting between the countries and Holland and Belgium just went their own way, whit a loady pi5h article.

[jgl07]

The big English clubs would abandon the league cup altogether given the choice. But if they entered 2nd string teams it might work.

Many of the top teams (Liverpool, Arsenal, etc.) already enter youth teams or reserve teams prior to the sharp end of the League Cup.

Many lower league teams also put out weakened or experimental teams. It’s hardly surprising with 46 League games plus two or three cup competitions to pack into a season.

Manchester City tend to usually put out strongish teams in the League Cup which helps to explain why they have won it five times in the last seven seasons.

[Hillsidehibby]

Imagine away games to teams like Hearts. It might happen.

[chippy]

Switching to a 16 team top league in Scotland with a midweek/some weekends Euro league/cup with teams from countries frozen out by TV should be seriously looked at. I doubt the OF would go for it or teams like Ross County and Hamilton who would be struggling to make the Euro League and would miss the second OF home fixture. Must be some way if fresh I g things up and increasing revenues.

A good idea. I don’t see why a 16 team National Scottish League couldn’t run in parallel with some form of Northern Euro league as you suggest. I think our best bet is to team up with the Nordic countries as it looks like the Dutch and Belgium will do their own league. If you add Sweden (10.2), Norway(5.4), Denmark(5.8), Finland(5.5),Iceland(0.364), Scotland (5.6) you have a market population of 33 million. If you added Ireland you’d have 40 million.

[hibs#1]

A good idea. I don’t see why a 16 team National Scottish League couldn’t run in parallel with some form of Northern Euro league as you suggest. I think our best bet is to team up with the Nordic countries as it looks like the Dutch and Belgium will do their own league. If you add Sweden (10.2), Norway(5.4), Denmark(5.8), Finland(5.5),Iceland(0.364), Scotland (5.6) you have a market population of 33 million. If you added Ireland you’d have 40 million.


The old firm would still be far and away the biggest clubs in that set up, personally think it would just hinder Hibs chances at success.

Not against reconstruction or some form of a cross border league but yet to see any so far that would enhance Scottish football.

[Ozyhibby]

The old firm would still be far and away the biggest clubs in that set up, personally think it would just hinder Hibs chances at success.

Not against reconstruction or some form of a cross border league but yet to see any so far that would enhance Scottish football.

Replacing Hamilton with Copenhagen would be an improvement in my book. The extra TV money would also help clubs like Hibs hang on to players like Mcginn and Boyle for a bit longer as well. That is also an improvement.


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[chippy]

The old firm would still be far and away the biggest clubs in that set up, personally think it would just hinder Hibs chances at success.

Not against reconstruction or some form of a cross border league but yet to see any so far that would enhance Scottish football.

The feasibility of such a Northern Euro league has never been explored, but if some back of the fag paper maths are done, a league set up with a population of 40 million is about 8 times the Scottish market. Our new TV deal is what 25 million per season for 42 clubs. Wouldn’t we be looking at around 8-10 times that for such a Euro league? 200 million per season divided by the number of clubs. Say 20 clubs / 10 million each per season. Even half that amount would transform Hibs, Aberdeen finances. I think the potential for us to grow our support base and have a very competitive team is there. 6 years ago I didn’t expect Hibs to be averaging 16/18k crowds., what could we expect if we can sign and keep better players. Initially Old firm will be strongest but they’ll be challenged strongly. I don’t think they’d dominate such a league as much as they do ours. We have to be in the discussions around these potential set ups otherwise we’ll be left behind

[A Hi-Bee]

Now that the Turd has almost flushed, in my humble it is time to begin initial feasibility studies into a “Viking League”. (Nordic or whatever)
Scotland,
Norway,
Iceland,
Sweden,
Finland,
Denmark,

Eire/Norn etc.


If change is gonna happen then Hibs need to be right there in amongst it, I do think that change will happen, somewhere along the line.
Like I say now is the time for talking about reconstruction now that the Turds will be playing in the 2nd Division next year.

[chippy]

Now that the Turd has almost flushed, in my humble it is time to begin initial feasibility studies into a “Viking League”. (Nordic or whatever)
Scotland,
Norway,
Iceland,
Sweden,
Finland,
Denmark,

Eire/Norn etc.


If change is gonna happen then Hibs need to be right there in amongst it, I do think that change will happen, somewhere along the line.
Like I say now is the time for talking about reconstruction now that the Turds will be playing in the 2nd Division next year.

Absolut

[Since90+2]

Now that the Turd has almost flushed, in my humble it is time to begin initial feasibility studies into a “Viking League”. (Nordic or whatever)
Scotland,
Norway,
Iceland,
Sweden,
Finland,
Denmark,

Eire/Norn etc.


If change is gonna happen then Hibs need to be right there in amongst it, I do think that change will happen, somewhere along the line.
Like I say now is the time for talking about reconstruction now that the Turds will be playing in the 2nd Division next year.

Sounds absolutely grim. We have absolutely no connection to those countries or the clubs in them. Travelling costs would be extortionate and only well off fans could afford to watch Hibs away (we are talking about some of the most expensive places in the world to visit). I paid the equivalent of £10 for a pint in Sweden about 5 years ago , would hate to see the cost now.

Holland and Belgium link up works because they have close social and historical ties and the two countries border each other.

There very well might be a Scandinavian league but it would make no sense whatsoever for Scotland to join.

[EK-HIBEE]

Something has to done. It’s not just the ugly sisters that are being held back by Scotland. We’re a Capital city club and with the money be piled down South it won’t be long before MK Dons is a more attractive prospect than Hibs.

[chippy]

Sounds absolutely grim. We have absolutely no connection to those countries or the clubs in them. Travelling costs would be extortionate and only well off fans could afford to watch Hibs away (we are talking about some of the most expensive places in the world to visit). I paid the equivalent of £10 for a pint in Sweden about 5 years ago , would hate to see the cost now.

Holland and Belgium link up works because they have close social and historical ties and the two countries border each other.

There very well might be a Scandinavian league but it would make no sense whatsoever for Scotland to join.

Who else can we join, we live in an island. Plenty historical connections between Scotland, Ireland and Nordic countries. The richest league in the world sits next door, but we are barred sine die. It will be all about the TV deal/ Streaming and the value the league will have in the market place. I don’t for one minute think that Ron G has bought us without seeing the possibilities of cross border leagues. Sure Scandinavia is expensive , so you might just go to a couple of away games, but they will all be streamed- that’s the point and where the value is. You can always go to the home games and when this does happen and we are in it , E R will be sold out

[B.H.F.C]

Who else can we join, we live in an island. Plenty historical connections between Scotland, Ireland and Nordic countries. The richest league in the world sits next door, but we are barred sine die. It will be all about the TV deal/ Streaming and the value the league will have in the market place. I don’t for one minute think that Ron G has bought us without seeing the possibilities of cross border leagues. Sure Scandinavia is expensive , so you might just go to a couple of away games, but they will all be streamed- that’s the point and where the value is. You can always go to the home games and when this does happen and we are in it , E R will be sold out

As we’re seeing at the moment, football without fans isn’t the same.

If football gets to a place (and I acknowledge that it might because of money) where fans have to watch on a stream as opposed to actually attend games because they’re in another country, that would be terrible IMO.

[Ozyhibby]

As we’re seeing at the moment, football without fans isn’t the same.

If football gets to a place (and I acknowledge that it might because of money) where fans have to watch on a stream as opposed to actually attend games because they’re in another country, that would be terrible IMO.

The stadiums would be packed. Maybe just not as many away fans. It’s not like Hamilton bring thousands to Easter Road anyway.
But the games you do watch at home will be of a significantly better quality than we watch now. And the odd away trip will be a great day out.


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[Since452]

I'm happy with our league. A wage cap to bring Celtic and Rangers more in line with the rest of the clubs is the best way forward

[Wakeyhibee]

Unless you are wanting to exit the UEFA set up, qualification would be much harder. If you're taking top teams from each country to qualify theres no fight for places 3rd-5th.

In a bigger league you'll have more meaningless matches than we would have now with a bigger league only 500 miles further away.

[B.H.F.C]

The stadiums would be packed. Maybe just not as many away fans. It’s not like Hamilton bring thousands to Easter Road anyway.
But the games you do watch at home will be of a significantly better quality than we watch now. And the odd away trip will be a great day out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I understand the arguments for it. But thousands of people in this country travel to watch their team away from home every week. I wouldn’t want to lose that. A better product would mean less to many if they were having to sit and watch it on a laptop half the time.

[Ozyhibby]

Unless you are wanting to exit the UEFA set up, qualification would be much harder. If you're taking top teams from each country to qualify theres no fight for places 3rd-5th.

In a bigger league you'll have more meaningless matches than we would have now with a bigger league only 500 miles further away.

The appeal of the odd UEFA campaign in August would not be as great as regular games against those same teams all season.


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[B.H.F.C]

The appeal of the odd UEFA campaign in August would not be as great as regular games against those same teams all season.


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Once the novelty wore off, how great would the appeal be though? Especially if you weren’t really playing for much.

Are significantly more folk going to turn up to watch Hibs against Molde or Djurgarden than they are against Aberdeen?

I’m not convinced the reality of this type of thing would be as appealing as the thought of it.

[Wakeyhibee]

The appeal of the odd UEFA campaign in August would not be as great as regular games against those same teams all season.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's the qualifying that matters, in terms of league excitement. Take that away and a bigger league with even less to play for = more meaningless matches. No matter who the opposition is, the novelty would soon wear off.

Your not sugesting more will watch 10th v 11th half way through a season v Brugges. As opposed to 6th v 7th v St Johnstone?

Away supports would be non existent for the most part.

[Ozyhibby]

Once the novelty wore off, how great would the appeal be though? Especially if you weren’t really playing for much.

Are significantly more folk going to turn up to watch Hibs against Molde or Djurgarden than they are against Aberdeen?

I’m not convinced the reality of this type of thing would be as appealing as the thought of it.

The extra tv money would allow us to keep players like McGinn. That has a lot of appeal for me.


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[Ozyhibby]

It's the qualifying that matters, in terms of league excitement. Take that away and a bigger league with even less to play for = more meaningless matches. No matter who the opposition is, the novelty would soon wear off.

Your not sugesting more will watch 10th v 11th half way through a season v Brugges. As opposed to 6th v 7th v St Johnstone?

Away supports would be non existent for the most part.

Away supports at Easter road are almost non existent as it is. The only teams that bring large numbers are the ones who would be coming with us. I actually think Brondby or whoever might bring more fans than some SPFL teams.
As far as travelling fans go there would still be away games in Scotland v Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen and Hearts.


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[B.H.F.C]

The extra tv money would allow us to keep players like McGinn. That has a lot of appeal for me.


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No it wouldn’t. McGinn is earning £60k a week. How much extra money do you think we’re going to get?

Players would still aspire to play at a higher level.

[wallpaperman]

Away supports at Easter road are almost non existent as it is. The only teams that bring large numbers are the ones who would be coming with us. I actually think Brondby or whoever might bring more fans than some SPFL teams.
As far as travelling fans go there would still be away games in Scotland v Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen and Hearts.


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That’s just not true. Killie and St Mirren both had really good supports at Easter Road this season.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Away days to Harmmarby or Djurgardens certainly trump Hamilton or Dundee.

OK for the odd euro fixture but week in week out league football? It ain't feasible for 99.9% of fans.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Would actually love a trip to Stockholm for a Harmmarby match. Seen some stuff on YouTube, Copa90 ect and the stadium and Derby games with Djurgardens are something else.

[Since452]

Once the novelty wore off it would be chronic

[Wakeyhibee]

Away supports at Easter road are almost non existent as it is. The only teams that bring large numbers are the ones who would be coming with us. I actually think Brondby or whoever might bring more fans than some SPFL teams.
As far as travelling fans go there would still be away games in Scotland v Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen and Hearts.


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They might the 1st or 2nd time.

1-2000 Hibs fans wouldn't be able to travel bi weekly. Same for all teams bar maybe the biggest.

Mid table mid season is nothing to play for, folk would drift away at home too. At least now in the same situation you're not out of the woods for relegation and you still have Eurooe to play for.

[Ozyhibby]

No it wouldn’t. McGinn is earning £60k a week. How much extra money do you think we’re going to get?

Players would still aspire to play at a higher level.

He may be now but he didn’t leave Hibs for that kind of money. We could have kept him longer and when the time was right sold him for the kind of money he was really worth.
The reason we only got the money we got was because of the league we play in, not because he wasn’t worth more.


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[B.H.F.C]

He may be now but he didn’t leave Hibs for that kind of money. We could have kept him longer and when the time was right sold him for the kind of money he was really worth.
The reason we only got the money we got was because of the league we play in, not because he wasn’t worth more.


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Aye, just the 20 odd grand a week he went for initially.

It’s fine saying we’ll be raking in a fortune from TV and whatever, I’m sceptical about how much that would be exactly. I don’t believe it would be worth tens of millions a year to us which is what we would need it to be to hold on to players like McGinn. In addition to that, as I’ve already mentioned, I don’t believe there would be huge additional demand to watch us against a random team from Sweden than there would be to watch us agains an Aberdeen or Motherwell.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Banter come from? Cultural and language barriers would mean none at all.

[chippy]

[QUOTE=Renfrew_Hibby;6203634]Banter come from? Cultural and language barriers would mean none at all.[/QUOTE

Give me better players rather than daft banter

[Ozyhibby]

Aye, just the 20 odd grand a week he went for initially.

It’s fine saying we’ll be raking in a fortune from TV and whatever, I’m sceptical about how much that would be exactly. I don’t believe it would be worth tens of millions a year to us which is what we would need it to be to hold on to players like McGinn. In addition to that, as I’ve already mentioned, I don’t believe there would be huge additional demand to watch us against a random team from Sweden than there would be to watch us agains an Aberdeen or Motherwell.

I think the TV audience would be a lot higher as fans tune in in Sweden, Denmark, Norway etc. And with better quality players then viewers in other countries will be more interested.
As far as getting fans into Easter road, we would attract a lot more if we had better players on show.


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[whiskyhibby]

The old firm would still be far and away the biggest clubs in that set up, personally think it would just hinder Hibs chances at success.

Not against reconstruction or some form of a cross border league but yet to see any so far that would enhance Scottish football.


Scottish football is hardly flourishing as it is, it’s a decrepit two horse race that has little appeal outside Scotland ( West coast ). The National team have been perennial non achievers over the last 25 years, Edinburgh is one of the most desirable cities in Europe, and if we want to progress as a team we need to look outside Scotland, perhaps the Atlantic league or even the English league

[Juniper Greens]

It's a pity Welsh and Irish teams are so dross. A Celtic league, like how the rugby pro 14 started is probably our best shot at a link up

[B.H.F.C]

I think the TV audience would be a lot higher as fans tune in in Sweden, Denmark, Norway etc. And with better quality players then viewers in other countries will be more interested.
As far as getting fans into Easter road, we would attract a lot more if we had better players on show.


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It would be exactly as it is now. If you were winning and competing you’d get good crowds. If you weren’t, you wouldn’t.

I’m also not sure how much desire the average Swedish or Norwegian fan has to watch there team play Hibs on a regular basis. When I’ve watched Hibs in Sweden and Norway they didn’t exactly turn out in numbers.

I just don’t see this hugely significant increase in revenues as being realistic. If you take Celtic as an example, they can’t compete with teams down south on wages. Even in this European league our revenues are never going to get close to what Celtic have now. When you’re talking about being able to hold on to John McGinn and the like, I just don’t see it.

[chippy]

It would be exactly as it is now. If you were winning and competing you’d get good crowds. If you weren’t, you wouldn’t.

I’m also not sure how much desire the average Swedish or Norwegian fan has to watch there team play Hibs on a regular basis. When I’ve watched Hibs in Sweden and Norway they didn’t exactly turn out in numbers.

I just don’t see this hugely significant increase in revenues as being realistic. If you take Celtic as an example, they can’t compete with teams down south on wages. Even in this European league our revenues are never going to get close to what Celtic have now. When you’re talking about being able to hold on to John McGinn and the like, I just don’t see it.

It will be money led. Any radical change needs a feasibility study to ascertain interest from TV/ streaming services etc. What Ozy is saying is cross border leagues will happen. Do you want Hibs not to bother or to get involved in the discussions. Staying stuck in a diminished Scottish league will not attract fans , sponsors , investors or TV deals.

[Sammy7nil]

It would be exactly as it is now. If you were winning and competing you’d get good crowds. If you weren’t, you wouldn’t.

I’m also not sure how much desire the average Swedish or Norwegian fan has to watch there team play Hibs on a regular basis. When I’ve watched Hibs in Sweden and Norway they didn’t exactly turn out in numbers.

I just don’t see this hugely significant increase in revenues as being realistic. If you take Celtic as an example, they can’t compete with teams down south on wages. Even in this European league our revenues are never going to get close to what Celtic have now. When you’re talking about being able to hold on to John McGinn and the like, I just don’t see it.

I agree get a winning team and the crowd will turnout we had big crowds in the Championship both times we have been there in recent years.

[B.H.F.C]

It will be money led. Any radical change needs a feasibility study to ascertain interest from TV/ streaming services etc. What Ozy is saying is cross border leagues will happen. Do you want Hibs not to bother or to get involved in the discussions. Staying stuck in a diminished Scottish league will not attract fans , sponsors , investors or TV deals.

I don’t think I said that, did I?

It’s easy to talk about more money, sponsors, more fans etc. I’m just not convinced that joining up with some Scandinavian teams offers that transformational change to finances that is being suggested. And I think there are plenty downsides to it as well.

It might happen in the future but it won’t be any time soon IMO.

[jacomo]

A good idea. I don’t see why a 16 team National Scottish League couldn’t run in parallel with some form of Northern Euro league as you suggest. I think our best bet is to team up with the Nordic countries as it looks like the Dutch and Belgium will do their own league. If you add Sweden (10.2), Norway(5.4), Denmark(5.8), Finland(5.5),Iceland(0.364), Scotland (5.6) you have a market population of 33 million. If you added Ireland you’d have 40 million.


This is the kind of radical thinking that deserves more detailed consideration. As Ozyhibby and others rightly say, change is likely to come whether we like it or not. There are risks to Hibs but also opportunities.

Rushing through some 14 team set up now to save Hearts would be folly while the world is in flux.

[Ozyhibby]

This is the kind of radical thinking that deserves more detailed consideration. As Ozyhibby and others rightly say, change is likely to come whether we like it or not. There are risks to Hibs but also opportunities.

Rushing through some 14 team set up now to save Hearts would be folly while the world is in flux.

I think it’s coming because I can’t think why the likes of Ron Gordon would invest in Hibs unless he saw a way to increase the value of his investment. Taking into a cross border league does that. I really don’t think he is here to be another custodian of the club and sit tight for 25 years like Farmer. There is a massive business opportunity there to create value.
I think all of Scotland’s top 5 clubs would jump at the chance. I also think a lot of the barriers that were there 20 years ago are no longer there, not least the fact that UEFA no longer object to cross border leagues.
I’m not sure what way change will come but I think it will. I would prefer Hibs to be in there shaping the change rather than watching with our nose pressed against the glass as others leave us behind.


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