"I'd rather lose 4-3 and play attacking stuff than win 1-0 and play stodgy football".

[lyonhibs]

There is a style obsessed element of our support that comes out with the above phrase (or similar) when we're not playing well but churning out results with a relatively dull style of football, especially at home. Basically, that entertainment is the most important element of watching Hibs, above even the result.

Now, since the winter break ended we've scored about 2 goals a game, perhaps more. Now that seems to me to be entertaining but an inevitable side effect - at our level - of playing a style of football that brings that average gpg is that we'll be a bit open defensively/in the DM position (where we don't have a natural fit anyway). But I keep reading that our defence are all past it and need to be totally revamped etc.

So which is it to be? Would you be happy to see us scoring fewer, playing more defensively as a team but possibly winning more. Or is style, goals and entertainment more important whilst being aware that this might lead us to some frustrating results/yet more dropped points from leading positions which has been the story of our season thus far?
FWIW, I don't think there's any non OF team in the league that can realistically expect consistently attacking/goal scoring football combined with defensive rigidity

[Is It On....]

Please no return to the Alex Miller years. We just need to strengthen defence / add a DM and we can have excitement and positive results 🙂

[neil7908]

Results are all that matter.

Of course I love watching attacking football, at Hibs or wherever else but ultimately winning games is the aim.

If you lose 4-3 every week then relegation beckons.

[B.H.F.C]

I’d just be happy to see us winning more. We’ve only won 7 games from 24 in the league which is crap.

Always think if you’re winning the performances will look after themselves as you must be doing something right.

[Smartie]

When you play stodgy stuff the knives are out as soon as the wins dry up.

If your team are attacking and entertaining then any manager will get a bit more leeway and time to sort out the defensive aspect.

The truth is, there's nothing entertaining about watching your team lose goals and it is all about winning.

We have our liking of "playing the right way" but there's not one of us who wouldn't accept a league win built on dour 1-0 wins.

[emerald green]

I'm totally fed up watching Hibs self destruct. Especially at home. I don't care how they do it, but I want Hibs to win especially at home against wee teams such as St Mirren, St Johnstone, Livingston, Hamilton, Ross County and Hearts.

Hibs won't win every time, but they need to start winning these sort of games on a much more regular and consistent basis.

[Wilson]

I’d just be happy to see us winning more. We’ve only won 7 games from 24 in the league which is crap.

Always think if you’re winning the performances will look after themselves as you must be doing something right.

Depends. The thing you could be doing right is a defensive masterclass. Spoiling the attacks of your opponents. Kicking lumps out of their flair players. When you get a chance you lump the ball up to your big lone striker. You are drilled and robotic and you execute the plan to near perfection every week grinding out 1-0 wins. But who wants to pay £30 to watch that every week?

[Sir David Gray]

Livingston have scored more and conceded less than us this season.

It's possible.

[Wilson]

Livingston have scored more and conceded less than us this season.

It's possible.

Artificial pitch installed at ER?

[Steve20]

I’d like to see us win games.

[Bobby's Cinema]

I think the point is, I believe we have a manager playing attacking football, setting us up to the strengths of what we have, prepared to admit when he has got it wrong in a game, not scared to make subs early.

We are headed in the right direction here IMO, there was always an element of JR having to working with what he had and I look forward to seeing us after the summer window.

Personally I was pretty entertained and happy enough after watching that yesterday. Guess that puts me closer to the entertainment regardless camp

[lyonhibs]

Livingston have scored more and conceded less than us this season.

It's possible.

And yet some will dismiss them as a diddy club with nae fans, a ***** pitch and a bunch of hackers that bring us artists down to their level etc etc etc.

[Clarence]

We need to be able to flex between the two styles.

[SMAXXA]

Keep hearing about this need for a DM, the lack of this type of player isn’t the reason we are conceding crappy goals that’s for sure. How many have we conceded that a DM would have prevented certainly none I can recall recently

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Need to mix it up but to turn our back completely would be to become Jambos.
Anti football no thanks.
I was a “child “of the Miller era I had confidence we pretty much had a solid defence only the very seldom blip losing by multiple goals - wasn’t much of a life tho.

[MWHIBBIES]

1-0 win every time, any other answer is just flat out wrong.

[Sammy7nil]

There is something in that phrase fans will accept crap football for awhile so long as results are well above average. When that stops they turn quick look at Aberdeen second year after year yet it is now D Mc GTF.

I would rather play entertaining football and bounce around 4 - 6th than play turgid football and bounce around 2 - 4th.

Win the league or the cup and you can play how you like.

[hibsbollah]

I prefer going to games where I'm entertained, even when we don't necessarily win, because football is an entertainment. The 5-5 Lennon aeroplane springs to mind.

Wednesday's 2-1 win over Hamilton was horrible to watch, I appreciated the 3 points but I had much more fun at the 5-5 and left happier. A 3-3 under Collins against the Hun was similarly magnificent to watch.

[Smartie]

I think the point is, I believe we have a manager playing attacking football, setting us up to the strengths of what we have, prepared to admit when he has got it wrong in a game, not scared to make subs early.

We are headed in the right direction here IMO, there was always an element of JR having to working with what he had and I look forward to seeing us after the summer window.

Personally I was pretty entertained and happy enough after watching that yesterday. Guess that puts me closer to the entertainment regardless camp

Not sure about the manager or style of play part.

We're currently entertaining because we have some fantastic attacking players. Boyle has developed into a top notch winger, Allan's passing can be a joy to behold and Doidge has a happy knack of being in the right place to get on the end of chances.

This is all happening in spite of our manager and formation imo.

I'm not sure what kind of manager Ross is yet, positive or negative. TBH I think he's probably pragmatic, flexible and prepared to go for whatever the occasion demands, which is the best way to be. We're not setting up to attack teams though, I wasn't overly entertained yesterday because we were often open at the back whilst creating far too little for the players at our disposal.

[Chorley Hibee]

We need to be able to flex between the two styles.

Correct answer, the ability to adapt to a game and its circumstances is what successful sides do.

[Hibbyradge]

As with everything, there needs to be a balance.

I don't ever want Hibs to lose, but I don't want to watch dull, defensive football either.

I remember watching Barcelona destroy Real Madrid 5-0 in a breathtaking display of skill and flair.

It was a brilliant performance, but because I had sat through a horrifically boring 0-0 draw with St Johnstone in front of about 10000 fans the previous Saturday, the comparison actually depressed me.

However, I'm optimistic about the future under Jack Ross and the football we're playing is enjoyable. We're not going to win every week, but we're trying to and that's the important thing for me.

Bertie Auld is supposed to have sent his Hibs team out with the inspiring words, "Right lads, youse have got a point, don't lose it"!

I never want to return to that approach.

[ABZHFC]

Considering we will almost certainly NEVER finish top two while the Old Firm are at full strength (and that really does pain me to type), I would rather be battling for the European places playing attractive football - and even missing out on it now and then as a consequence - than settle for a Derek McInnes style of play. The worst part about it? It barely works. They usually only just win a few more games than us, while playing eye-bleeding football that leaves most of their support dissatisfied anyway

Having said all that, of course I would rather we had better defenders. But no change to the style of football for me. I would rather lose 4-3 more often than usual if it meant an entertaining brand of football was played at Easter Road.

We taught the 1970s Brazil side how to play, for christ sake!

[ABZHFC]

There is something in that phrase fans will accept crap football for awhile so long as results are well above average. When that stops they turn quick look at Aberdeen second year after year yet it is now D Mc GTF.

I would rather play entertaining football and bounce around 4 - 6th than play turgid football and bounce around 2 - 4th.

Win the league or the cup and you can play how you like.


Absolutely, 100% this for me. And also, let's bear in mind, Aberdeen have won one trophy since McInnes took charge, and it was a League Cup (on penalties, after a turgid 0-0). It's not as though they're trophy-laden because of their horrible, anti-football tactics. If they were, maybe then we could have this discussion seriously. Until then, let's play the Hibs way

[CapitalGreen]

If it was a case of losing goals as we were throwing bodies forward and being ambitious in attack then I’d agree. However we aren’t conceding goals because we are too adventurous when attacking, we are losing goals because our defence is slow with poor distribution and constantly invite opposition pressure upon us. I lost count yesterday how many times we put the ball out of play under little pressure or punted a clearance aimlessly upfield. This improved yesterday with the introduction of Docherty who was happy to take the ball off the defence and is good at retaining possession under pressure. It’s something we have struggled with since losing McGeouch and McGinn.

[noz]

1-0 win every time, any other answer is just flat out wrong.

correct.
Very few teams manage to entertain and win, we arent liverpool. Cant understand anyone who would prefer 4-3 defeats.

[Unseen work]

You’d rather lose pretty than win ugly? Bizarre.

Hope the players and management don’t have the same beliefs.

Try play good attacking football by all means, but good teams know how to see out a win. No team in this league can play good sexy football every week, so you need a back up plan or alternate way to play which we don’t seem to have.

[MikeyS]

1-0 win every time, any other answer is just flat out wrong.

Good to see you have an open mind on yet another subject!

[Bobby's Cinema]

Not sure about the manager or style of play part.

We're currently entertaining because we have some fantastic attacking players. Boyle has developed into a top notch winger, Allan's passing can be a joy to behold and Doidge has a happy knack of being in the right place to get on the end of chances.

This is all happening in spite of our manager and formation imo.

I'm not sure what kind of manager Ross is yet, positive or negative. TBH I think he's probably pragmatic, flexible and prepared to go for whatever the occasion demands, which is the best way to be. We're not setting up to attack teams though, I wasn't overly entertained yesterday because we were often open at the back whilst creating far too little for the players at our disposal.
Can’t agree we are attacking and creative in spite of the manager.
Think back to a short time ago when those things could be said of Heckingbottom. Hard to argue there hasn’t been a material change here?

I do think he leans towards attacking and having a go. Through his general subs, signs of attitude when we went for it at 2-1 at ER and killed off Motherwell, and the same again a week later but on that occasion we pegged back.

Sometimes we will have an off day but imo we are trying to do the right things.

[keep the faith]

1-0 win every time, any other answer is just flat out wrong.

No thanks mr levein. Entertainment every time. Get the attacking style right and we will win may more than we lose.

[hibsbollah]

You’d rather lose pretty than win ugly? Bizarre.


It's not bizarre, it's just different.
He is an aesthete, you are a pragmatist.
Different philosophies.
You may as well argue he's wrong because he prefers red to yellow.

[Unseen work]

It's not bizarre, it's just different.
He is an aesthete, you are a pragmatist.
Different philosophies.
You may as well argue he's wrong because he prefers red to yellow.

Football is a sport which is essentially all about winning, to prefer to lose any game is just crazy imo.

[Wilson]

Give me industrial 1-0 wins any day of the week. This "Hibs way" thing really grinds my gears. The number of games we've drawn/lost that we ought to have won over the years is frightening. Mowbray era sticks out

Aye but if you set up to be tight your as likely to get plenty of 0-0 games and 1-0 reverses. It isn't a given that because you adopt a more defensive style that you suddenly start getting more wins. The games still have to be won either way so we might as well enjoy what we're watching.

[scotiaf]

I have to say, I enjoyed watching the match yesterday. We were on the front foot from
the start apart from a 10 minute spell near the end when it was St Mirren coming forward. Poor defending for the goals, and we should have had enough in the tank to get a winner.

[MWHIBBIES]

No thanks mr levein. Entertainment every time. Get the attacking style right and we will win may more than we lose.That is true, the best team usually play the best football but really, in a one off situation its a no brainer.


Good to see you have an open mind on yet another subject!Nothing to be open minded about, I'm a hibs fan, I want Hibs to win. 38 1-0 wins a season please.

[BonnieFitbaTeam]

1-0 win every time, any other answer is just flat out wrong.

Absolutely.

Win 1-0 every week and you win the league. Oh, and both cups!

Who would want that [emoji849]

[Pretty Boy]

These arguments always seem to end up with the impression that playing attractive football and winning are somehow mutually exclusive. They aren't.

Most successful teams play good football and win but have the versatility to be pragmatic when they have to be.

I'd rather win most games playing free flowing football but grind out a 1-0 as and when it is required.

[Wilson]

Absolutely.

Win 1-0 every week and you win the league. Oh, and both cups!

Who would want that [emoji849]

But would you want to see the team set up to try and do that? Even though those results and the achievements you list are highly unlikely. Then we persevere with that philosophy season after season even if it still only gets us 4th or 5th place?

[Smartie]

Can’t agree we are attacking and creative in spite of the manager.
Think back to a short time ago when those things could be said of Heckingbottom. Hard to argue there hasn’t been a material change here?

I do think he leans towards attacking and having a go. Through his general subs, signs of attitude when we went for it at 2-1 at ER and killed off Motherwell, and the same again a week later but on that occasion we pegged back.

Sometimes we will have an off day but imo we are trying to do the right things.

I'm not convinced we really have progressed beyond where we were with Heckingbottom.

Saints had chances, they got at our defence. We had a decent amount of possession but we toiled to create chances and ultimately ended up drawing at home to St Mirren - exactly the type of result and performance that we had too often under Heckingbottom. We often played ok under Heckingbottom but failed to pick up results.

Ross' strong start (and the excellent performance under May) came from doing something different - we played the diamond, looked much more threatening and got a few good results (whilst having its weaknesses).

Ross has a few players at his disposal who are a significant improvement on those Heckingbottom had - Docherty and Omeonga are excellent, certainly compared to Vela. If you think we look better, that's probably why.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Artificial pitch installed at ER?

That team takes to the pitch with a game plan that they all know and buy into. If a plastic pitch was the secret, then someone needs to share that with Hamilton.

[Keith_M]

Aside from a 0-0 draw away to a decent Motherwell side, our results so far in 2020 are as follows:

Eventually got past a championship side in the cup after a replay.
Scraped a win at home against the side currently bottom of the table
Came back from 2-0 down to get a draw at home against the team currently in 10th.

In isolation, none of the above are disastrous, but put together it's hardly an encouraging run of games.

[Bobby's Cinema]

I'm not convinced we really have progressed beyond where we were with Heckingbottom.

Saints had chances, they got at our defence. We had a decent amount of possession but we toiled to create chances and ultimately ended up drawing at home to St Mirren - exactly the type of result and performance that we had too often under Heckingbottom. We often played ok under Heckingbottom but failed to pick up results.

Ross' strong start (and the excellent performance under May) came from doing something different - we played the diamond, looked much more threatening and got a few good results (whilst having its weaknesses).

Ross has a few players at his disposal who are a significant improvement on those Heckingbottom had - Docherty and Omeonga are excellent, certainly compared to Vela. If you think we look better, that's probably why.
The new guys haven’t exactly been in the door long and don’t explain thumping wins v Aberdeen and at tynecastle.

Agree to disagree then! Will go round in circles, but I see enough to be encouraged

[hibsbollah]

Football is a sport which is essentially all about winning, to prefer to lose any game is just crazy imo.

You can chuck about words like crazy and bizarre all you like, it doesn't alter the fact that other perspectives exist :greengrin

Danny Blanchflower put it well about glory in victory being the important thing

[Eyrie]

Pretty straightforward.

If I'm at the game then I'd rather be entertained for 90 minutes and lose 4-3 than spend 90 minutes wondering what I'll have for my tea as we grind out a 1-0 win.

If I'm not at the game, then grinding out a 1-0 win is preferable because it's three points.

Since I make about a dozen games a season, that puts us on 78 points which should be enough for third and European football. I'll just need to stop attending cup games.

[B.H.F.C]

There is a balance to be had. We’ve scored two goals in home games to St Johnstone, St Mirren, Livingston, Ross County and Kilmarnock off the top of my head, but managed to find a way to not win any of those games. It shouldn’t be asking too much to tighten up sufficiently enough to be a predominantly attacking team but win more of that type of game.

[Man Down Under]

It is possible to play entertaining attacking football and still defend well.

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk

[matty_f]

As with everything, there needs to be a balance.

I don't ever want Hibs to lose, but I don't want to watch dull, defensive football either.

I remember watching Barcelona destroy Real Madrid 5-0 in a breathtaking display of skill and flair.

It was a brilliant performance, but because I had sat through a horrifically boring 0-0 draw with St Johnstone in front of about 10000 fans the previous Saturday, the comparison actually depressed me.

However, I'm optimistic about the future under Jack Ross and the football we're playing is enjoyable. We're not going to win every week, but we're trying to and that's the important thing for me.

Bertie Auld is supposed to have sent his Hibs team out with the inspiring words, "Right lads, youse have got a point, don't lose it"!

I never want to return to that approach.
I agree with that.

The two things aren't mutually exclusive anyway, you can win games by being entertaining.

For a team like us, who aren't likely to win the league, I think it's important that the football is entertaining. If the 4-3 defeat came in among games that we'd won 4-3, I think I'd take that.

[Smartie]

The new guys haven’t exactly been in the door long and don’t explain thumping wins v Aberdeen and at tynecastle.

Agree to disagree then! Will go round in circles, but I see enough to be encouraged

Some of the results and performances since they came in have been excellent - the home wins against Motherwell and Aberdeen and the win at Tynecastle. There were some other decent performances around that time.

I'm just a bit concerned about the way the new management team have chosen to start recent games - the performances and early scores have been nowhere near good enough. They've got us out of it by changing once or twice but we shouldn't be having to improve so much later in games.

I was encouraged up to the winter break, the transfer window and few games since the break have just led me to be a wee bit concerned, that is all. Not bed wetting yet, but a wee bit concerned.

[Hibbyradge]

Pretty straightforward.

If I'm at the game then I'd rather be entertained for 90 minutes and lose 4-3 than spend 90 minutes wondering what I'll have for my tea as we grind out a 1-0 win.

If I'm not at the game, then grinding out a 1-0 win is preferable because it's three points.

Since I make about a dozen games a season, that puts us on 78 points which should be enough for third and European football. I'll just need to stop attending cup games.

:faf:

Awesome!

[SideBurns]

The thing is, "stodgy football" is rarely truly successful, and the Hibs teams who have challenged for, and won, trophies in the past have done so playing attacking football. Entertaining play generally leads to better results because it tends to mean you're scoring goals.

Of course, it's all relative and you could convincingly argue that Livingston are achieving 'success' at the moment. But Hibs should aim higher than that.

[The Modfather]

There is a style obsessed element of our support that comes out with the above phrase (or similar) when we're not playing well but churning out results with a relatively dull style of football, especially at home. Basically, that entertainment is the most important element of watching Hibs, above even the result.

Now, since the winter break ended we've scored about 2 goals a game, perhaps more. Now that seems to me to be entertaining but an inevitable side effect - at our level - of playing a style of football that brings that average gpg is that we'll be a bit open defensively/in the DM position (where we don't have a natural fit anyway). But I keep reading that our defence are all past it and need to be totally revamped etc.

So which is it to be? Would you be happy to see us scoring fewer, playing more defensively as a team but possibly winning more. Or is style, goals and entertainment more important whilst being aware that this might lead us to some frustrating results/yet more dropped points from leading positions which has been the story of our season thus far?
FWIW, I don't think there's any non OF team in the league that can realistically expect consistently attacking/goal scoring football combined with defensive rigidity

In the binary choice between style over results, I’d be style now. In my “youth” I’d probably have taken the win above all else. Now I feel like I have less expectations from Hibs and put more importance on my time and wanting to enjoy my afternoon than the result being the be all and end all.