Deliberate handball

[hibbiedon]

Last night a Dundee Utd player stopped the ball going out by jumping up and handling it. I’m sure Willie Miller received a second yellow for this I’m sure it was at Dens park but my memory is not as good as it used to be, does anyone recall this :thumbsup:

[SquashedFrogg]

Last night a Dundee Utd player stopped the ball going out by jumping up and handling it. I’m sure Willie Miller received a second yellow for this I’m sure it was at Dens park but my memory is not as good as it used to be, does anyone recall this :thumbsup:

I'm sure there was a handball from a corner in the first half. Haven't seen it discussed.

[Seveno]

It was not a cautionable offence as it neither prevented nor interfered with a promising attack.

[Scouse Hibee]

I'm sure there was a handball from a corner in the first half. Haven't seen it discussed.

I saw that too but thought it may have been Doidge that actually handled it.

[Chorley Hibee]

Last night a Dundee Utd player stopped the ball going out by jumping up and handling it. I’m sure Willie Miller received a second yellow for this I’m sure it was at Dens park but my memory is not as good as it used to be, does anyone recall this :thumbsup:

Was there that day, was at East End Park against Dunfermline. It was the season we were relegated.

[JimBHibees]

How bad was the offside decision against Boyle in second half he clearly ran from the other side jof the defender.

[SideBurns]

Last night a Dundee Utd player stopped the ball going out by jumping up and handling it. I’m sure Willie Miller received a second yellow for this I’m sure it was at Dens park but my memory is not as good as it used to be, does anyone recall this :thumbsup:

It was at ER v Dundee Utd. A crossfield pass was going over his head, so Willie jumped up and caught it. Mental.

Think we lost 2-0...??

[we are hibs]

How bad was the offside decision against Boyle in second half he clearly ran from the other side jof the defender.

Thought the one not long before it on the opposite side with Horgan was equally as bad. The dundee united left back and left centre back were both playing him on. The boyle one the boy right next to him played him on. Its not until your in line with a linesman you see how useless most of them are. Can barely keep up with play half the time

[SquashedFrogg]

I saw that too but thought it may have been Doidge that actually handled it.

Ah, possibly my ever failing eyes letting me down again. I know there were a few players who claimed for it at the time.

[jeffers]

Ah, possibly my ever failing eyes letting me down again. I know there were a few players who claimed for it at the time.

I thought they were different incidents, Doidge one he was in the box, Utd one it was going over his head into the East.

[DetroitHibs]

I think I remember Pat McGinlay catching the balk and getting a second yellow for it.

[SquashedFrogg]

I thought they were different incidents, Doidge one he was in the box, Utd one it was going over his head into the East.

Yeh. I thought the one in the box was by a Utd player. Appears it may have been Doidge.

[Onion]

It was at ER v Dundee Utd. A crossfield pass was going over his head, so Willie jumped up and caught it. Mental.

Think we lost 2-0...??

That's how I remember it. Crazy decision but the ref last night should have been aware of the precedent and booked the guy :greengrin

[One Day]

Was there that day, was at East End Park against Dunfermline. It was the season we were relegated.

I was there too

[Squealing pig]

That's how I remember it. Crazy decision but the ref last night should have been aware of the precedent and booked the guy :greengrin

Mind it well, but yeah definitely east end park, great player was oor willie

[Chorley Hibee]

Definitely East End Park. Here's a link to the game and the incident.

https://youtu.be/jT3Bkxz7CJY

[speedy_gonzales]

How bad was the offside decision against Boyle in second half he clearly ran from the other side jof the defender.

When the majority of the team were celebrating Doidges 2nd(or maybe 3rd), Boyle approached the East stand linesman and held out his hand with forefinger and thumb an inch apart (intimating how close it was), the linesman nodded in agreement.
I was a surprised as you and would like to see highlights but shows Martin in a decent light, a wee bit humility towards the officials rather than petulant rage!

[weecounty hibby]

It was at ER v Dundee Utd. A crossfield pass was going over his head, so Willie jumped up and caught it. Mental.

Think we lost 2-0...??

It was 100% against Dunfermline at East End Park. Unless he did it twice but surely even Willie Miller wasn't that dsft

[weecounty hibby]

Definitely East End Park. Here's a link to the game and the incident.

https://youtu.be/jT3Bkxz7CJY

Just saw this after I posted. Thanks you are clearly more tech savvy than me. I was just relying on my fading memory

[speedy_gonzales]

It was not a cautionable offence as it neither prevented nor interfered with a promising attack.

According to IFAB (law 12) under changes;
"•Deliberate handball remains an offence"

Whilst it could be argued that it was clear the Utd player was never getting the ball legally, by jumping and catching whilst the ball had not left the field of play, then it was a deliberate "hand ball".

[SideBurns]

It was 100% against Dunfermline at East End Park. Unless he did it twice but surely even Willie Miller wasn't that dsft

In my mind's eye, there's an image of Willie jumping up and catching the ball at ER v United as it is going out for a throw-in, but it must be East End Park...

[danhibees1875]

According to IFAB (law 12) under changes;
"•Deliberate handball remains an offence"

Whilst it could be argued that it was clear the Utd player was never getting the ball legally, by jumping and catching whilst the ball had not left the field of play, then it was a deliberate "hand ball".

An offence doesn't mean a yellow card though does it?

I think the ref probably got it right. I'd have booked them if they done so to gain a sporting advantage, but it was more out of frustration.

[speedy_gonzales]

An offence doesn't mean a yellow card though does it?

I think the ref probably got it right. I'd have booked them if they done so to gain a sporting advantage, but it was more out of frustration.

Did we get a free kick or throw? Genuine question as I can't remember. If deliberate, the very least we should have been given a free kick.

[JasonC1875]

Did we get a free kick or throw? Genuine question as I can't remember. If deliberate, the very least we should have been given a free kick.

Free kick was given

[Diclonius]

Danny Swanson (when at Dundee Utd) handballed the ball when it was going out of play and got a second yellow in a game at ER a few years ago. We used the man advantage to get a draw.

[delbert]

That's how I remember it. Crazy decision but the ref last night should have been aware of the precedent and booked the guy :greengrin

It wasn’t in any way a precedent, like most laws, the handball offence and its interpretation and punishment criteria have evolved over the years under instructions from IFAB.

[Seveno]

According to IFAB (law 12) under changes;
"•Deliberate handball remains an offence"

Whilst it could be argued that it was clear the Utd player was never getting the ball legally, by jumping and catching whilst the ball had not left the field of play, then it was a deliberate "hand ball".

There is a difference between an offence and a cautionable offence.

[allezsauzee]

If applying common sense to the situation does anyone really think the United player deserved to be yellow carded for stopping the ball going out for a shy with his hands?

[danhibees1875]

If applying common sense to the situation does anyone really think the United player deserved to be yellow carded for stopping the ball going out for a shy with his hands?

No.

It should have been red. :greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

Last night a Dundee Utd player stopped the ball going out by jumping up and handling it. I’m sure Willie Miller received a second yellow for this I’m sure it was at Dens park but my memory is not as good as it used to be, does anyone recall this :thumbsup:

Yes, I was at that game.

Miller jumped and stretched up to catch the ball to save it going into the crowd and immediately put it down for a free kick.

The referee (corrupt obvs) gave him a yellow card.

[Hibbyradge]

Was there that day, was at East End Park against Dunfermline. It was the season we were relegated.

That's right. It was away to the Pars.

[calumhibee1]

If applying common sense to the situation does anyone really think the United player deserved to be yellow carded for stopping the ball going out for a shy with his hands?

Absolutely yes. It was so blatantly obvious that he was never going to get away with it, but if for some reason he did then his cheating would have gained him an unfair advantage.

Saying he shouldn’t have got booked is a bit like saying a player shouldn’t get booked for an absolutely awful, blatantly obvious dive.

[overdrive]

Reminds me of another Dundee Utd incident where Gavin Gunning received a short pass, bent down, picked up the ball and walked of the pitch with the ball in his hands. He wasn’t booked for that which I found really strange at the time.

[Aim Here]

Absolutely yes. It was so blatantly obvious that he was never going to get away with it, but if for some reason he did then his cheating would have gained him an unfair advantage.

Saying he shouldn’t have got booked is a bit like saying a player shouldn’t get booked for an absolutely awful, blatantly obvious dive.

Are you serious? The player was attempting to catch the ball in order to perform a faster throw-in.

Dives get booked because they're attempting to gain an unfair advantage by misleading the referee.

Here, the player was merely trying to resume the game faster, and jumped the gun a bit. It's not any kind of unfair advantage to get the ball in play faster (it's unfair, and bookable, to unreasonably keep the ball *out* of play, but not the reverse. If Hibs didn't like the ball being in play earlier than usual, they could have got their act together and played some fitba' to rectify the situation). Taking a faster throw-in is never an unfair advantage, though it might be a fair one. The intention wasn't to gain an unfair advantage, but the player happened to commit an offence while trying it.

The offence looked jarring to spectators, because it was an unusually blatant deliberate handling of the ball, but all handball offences are, by definition, deliberate handling. That's worthy of a booking unless it's committed to prevent a scoring opportunity.

[speedy_gonzales]

Are you serious? The player was attempting to catch the ball in order to perform a faster throw-in.

Dives get booked because they're attempting to gain an unfair advantage by misleading the referee.

Here, the player was merely trying to resume the game faster, and jumped the gun a bit. It's not any kind of unfair advantage to get the ball in play faster (it's unfair, and bookable, to unreasonably keep the ball *out* of play, but not the reverse. If Hibs didn't like the ball being in play earlier than usual, they could have got their act together and played some fitba' to rectify the situation). Taking a faster throw-in is never an unfair advantage, though it might be a fair one. The intention wasn't to gain an unfair advantage, but the player happened to commit an offence while trying it.

The offence looked jarring to spectators, because it was an unusually blatant deliberate handling of the ball, but all handball offences are, by definition, deliberate handling. That's worthy of a booking unless it's committed to prevent a scoring opportunity.

It was going out for a Hibs throw anyway, I don't think the Utd players intentions were to speed up play?

[hibbysam]

Are you serious? The player was attempting to catch the ball in order to perform a faster throw-in.

Dives get booked because they're attempting to gain an unfair advantage by misleading the referee.

Here, the player was merely trying to resume the game faster, and jumped the gun a bit. It's not any kind of unfair advantage to get the ball in play faster (it's unfair, and bookable, to unreasonably keep the ball *out* of play, but not the reverse. If Hibs didn't like the ball being in play earlier than usual, they could have got their act together and played some fitba' to rectify the situation). Taking a faster throw-in is never an unfair advantage, though it might be a fair one. The intention wasn't to gain an unfair advantage, but the player happened to commit an offence while trying it.

The offence looked jarring to spectators, because it was an unusually blatant deliberate handling of the ball, but all handball offences are, by definition, deliberate handling. That's worthy of a booking unless it's committed to prevent a scoring opportunity.

To speed up play 😂😂 I’m neither here nor there whether he should have been booked or not, but it was a deliberate, probably frustrated handball due to a woefully overhit pass and his side being behind.

[Andy74]

The Willie Miller Dundee Utd thing might be the greatest own goal ever scored?

It may have grown in legend over the years but I remember it as some sort of overhead kick from 30 yards.

[SquashedFrogg]

Are you serious? The player was attempting to catch the ball in order to perform a faster throw-in.

Dives get booked because they're attempting to gain an unfair advantage by misleading the referee.

Here, the player was merely trying to resume the game faster, and jumped the gun a bit. It's not any kind of unfair advantage to get the ball in play faster (it's unfair, and bookable, to unreasonably keep the ball *out* of play, but not the reverse. If Hibs didn't like the ball being in play earlier than usual, they could have got their act together and played some fitba' to rectify the situation). Taking a faster throw-in is never an unfair advantage, though it might be a fair one. The intention wasn't to gain an unfair advantage, but the player happened to commit an offence while trying it.

The offence looked jarring to spectators, because it was an unusually blatant deliberate handling of the ball, but all handball offences are, by definition, deliberate handling. That's worthy of a booking unless it's committed to prevent a scoring opportunity.

He wasn't. It was a misplaced pass which was too high for him. It was going out for a Hibs throw.

Not being funny but I can't think of an incident in any match I've been to that was more obvious.

[Scouse Hibee]

Are you serious? The player was attempting to catch the ball in order to perform a faster throw-in.

Dives get booked because they're attempting to gain an unfair advantage by misleading the referee.

Here, the player was merely trying to resume the game faster, and jumped the gun a bit. It's not any kind of unfair advantage to get the ball in play faster (it's unfair, and bookable, to unreasonably keep the ball *out* of play, but not the reverse. If Hibs didn't like the ball being in play earlier than usual, they could have got their act together and played some fitba' to rectify the situation). Taking a faster throw-in is never an unfair advantage, though it might be a fair one. The intention wasn't to gain an unfair advantage, but the player happened to commit an offence while trying it.

The offence looked jarring to spectators, because it was an unusually blatant deliberate handling of the ball, but all handball offences are, by definition, deliberate handling. That's worthy of a booking unless it's committed to prevent a scoring opportunity.

Are you serious? It was going out for a Hibs throw in!

[PatHead]

To speed up play 😂😂 I’m neither here nor there whether he should have been booked or not, but it was a deliberate, probably frustrated handball due to a woefully overhit pass and his side being behind.

Damned fool. Gave us a free kick when everyone knows we are crap at throw ins.

[speedy_gonzales]

Damned fool. Gave us a free kick when everyone knows we are crap at throw ins.

Maybe it's the way forward for us, just give the other team the free-kick, it'd be quicker and probably work out for us better 😀