Stop writing players off

[yerauldda]

There’s a few in that squad proving us all wrong. James hasn’t exactly set the heather alight but look at the turnaround in some of the other players... have some patience.

[Lago]

There’s a few in that squad proving us all wrong. James hasn’t exactly set the heather alight but look at the turnaround in some of the other players... have some patience.
It's the Hibs way.

[Tricla]

There’s a few in that squad proving us all wrong. James hasn’t exactly set the heather alight but look at the turnaround in some of the other players... have some patience.

Shouldn't the thread title be -

'Stop writing players off'

*apart from James

[Jim44]

I won’t be popular for saying this, but can we include Kamberi? If Ross can sort out his head, I think he has so much to offer our team. Recent posts seem to have decided otherwise, however.

[Borderhibbie76]

There’s a few in that squad proving us all wrong. James hasn’t exactly set the heather alight but look at the turnaround in some of the other players... have some patience.

Agree in principle but sorry not James...awful and couldnt tackle a fish supper mate

[Dalianwanda]

Agree in principle but sorry not James...awful and couldnt tackle a fish supper mate

he’s only just back in the team, wasn’t that bad before he got injured.

[calumhibee1]

Agree in principle but sorry not James...awful and couldnt tackle a fish supper mate

Agree unfortunately. He’s pretty bad. I realise that’s it’s the total opposite to the point of the thread though :greengrin

[SMAXXA]

Agree in principle but sorry not James...awful and couldnt tackle a fish supper mate

He definitely isn’t awful

[Sammy7nil]

Shouldn't the thread title be -

'Stop writing players off'

*apart from James

And Vela :greengrin

[GreenPJ]

James does not look as if he has played full back before and head goes down as soon as someone is past him. His confidence is shot and I hope he gets it back but doubt it will be at Hibs.

[Stuart93]

He definitely isn’t awful

He might not be awful but he was tonight

Backs off and backs off then sticks a leg in and the boy goes past him

Had no awareness at times of who was round him

Simple 10 yard passes going straight to dundee Utd players putting us in trouble.

He might not be as bad as he was tonight but I’m not convinced

[supermcginn]

he’s only just back in the team, wasn’t that bad before he got injured.

I'm sorry, he is atrocious. So soft and slow.

[PaulSmith]

It's the Hibs way.

Fitba fans across the world make opinions on their players, its really not a Hibs thing and it’s really immaterial in the grand scheme of things what’s written on a message board

[Vault Boy]

I think the OP raises a fair point.

Mob mentality can be a real problem in football, it allows for the creation of scapegoats who can do nothing right. The abuse Whittaker was getting by some was truly shocking, for example.

I wasn't holding out any real hope for Newell or Doidge personally. I don't love to voice much negative criticism of Hibs players unless they're truly deserving of it, but internally I thought they were both duds. Very happy that they both keep proving me, and many others, dead wrong.

[Phil MaGlass]

Loads on here have been wrong about alot of players the now including Doidge, whos to say the James fella wont come good?
Ha vault boy, posted same time almost

[Captain Trips]

Fitba fans across the world make opinions on their players, its really not a Hibs thing and it’s really immaterial in the grand scheme of things what’s written on a message board

Indeed judgements are made at time, I guess you can also say don't write players on either then.

[Bishop Hibee]

Doidge is probably the biggest turn around in form I’ve ever seen in a Hibs signing. Newell has a new lease of life in central midfield. James, Vela and Maxwell were/are poor though.

[LaMotta]

Indeed judgements are made at time, I guess you can also say don't write players on either then.

:agree: opposite is also true. Basically give it a few months before labelling a player useless or brilliant:greengrin

[Gordy M]

People have their opinions on players, thats natural, however some of the venom and abuse thats shouted to(and written) about players thats way over the top. Very few then accept they were wrong, they just wait to the first misplaced pass or bad game and then its back to the ott critisism.

[Ryan91]

Some guy in front of me was calling Doidge "Sh*te" in the first half, seemed to enjoy celebrating every one of his goals in the second though.

[O'Rourke3]

Tin hat on but I thought he was OK and had improved from Saturday and was at it earlier than the Well game. Neilson swapped wingers second half so the boy got past him a couple of times before he sussed him out. Sharn free kick though. Opinions eh?

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

[ABZHFC]

100% this. Doidgey Doidgey!

[Danderhall Hibs]

James does not look as if he has played full back before and head goes down as soon as someone is past him. His confidence is shot and I hope he gets it back but doubt it will be at Hibs.

And on the “stop writing players off” thread? 😂

[WhileTheChief..]

Another way to look at it is that no matter how much abuse players take online it has absolutely zero impact on their performances.

Doidge is a prefect example.

Some of the stuff written about him was shocking but it’s not done him any harm at all. Maybe it’s what he needed :wink:

[CMurdoch]

A lot of folk who post haven't really got a clue.
Players are ***** or great, nothing in between.
They don't watch properly, they just react.

Sadly this critic has decided that young Mr James is not a full back because he can't tackle or block.
Good on the ball, controlling the ball, free kicks (excepting the one he had tonight) but not a full back.
Hope he can prove me wrong but not looking that way at the moment.

[Smartie]

A lot of folk who post haven't really got a clue.
Players are ***** or great, nothing in between.
They don't watch properly, they just react.

Sadly this critic has decided that young Mr James is not a full back because he can't tackle or block.
Good on the ball, controlling the ball, free kicks (excepting the one he had tonight) but not a full back.
Hope he can prove me wrong but not looking that way at the moment.

My problem with him isn’t that he CAN’T tackle or block (he’s done it enough in the past 2 games to show he clearly can) but that he doesn’t appear to want to. He takes up positions miles away from opponents, can be painfully slow to close them and seems to invite them into dangerous areas.

I don’t think he’s a fullback - but if he’s not a fullback, what is he? He frustrates me a bit because like you say, he has some good qualities.

[GreenPJ]

And on the “stop writing players off” thread? 😂

Do you disagree with the assessment?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Do you disagree with the assessment?

I agree that his confidence is shot. Don’t think he was too bad before he had a poor game in the semi final which caused him to be binned. Looks like he lost his confidence then and struggling to get it back.

I don’t think he’s rubbish though.

[Hannah_hfc]

I’m glad I don’t need to hear the phrase “league 1 dross” every week now

[California-Hibs]

14 goals in 29 games for Doidge yet some fans were happy to bin him as he was adjusting to the league..

There is a narrative with some fans that its 'cool and trendy' to slaughter players, for laughs with their mates, on social media etc. Folk play the part and cloud sensible judgement because of it and their underlying focus. I think some people do it intentionally and others unintentionally because its just naturally built into them.

Support the players and give them a fair chance before casting unfair opinions. Sure, sometimes negative things are right and fully justified and I myself will voice frustrations and concerns.

Other times they are just extremely stupid and naive.

[Since452]

All Heckys signings were on a hiding to nothing and most were written off before they'd settled in a new team, city and county. That's the way of the world now. People want instant performances and instant results and tend to have OTT reactions if that doesn't happen. We forget these guys are human beings. Unfortunately James still getting it after months out and brought back doing 90 minutes through emergency

[matty_f]

I agree that his confidence is shot. Don’t think he was too bad before he had a poor game in the semi final which caused him to be binned. Looks like he lost his confidence then and struggling to get it back.

I don’t think he’s rubbish though.

He was fine last night - not great, but closer to great than to terrible. 7/10 performance, imho.

[JimBHibees]

14 goals in 29 games for Doidge yet some fans were happy to bin him as he was adjusting to the league..

There is a narrative with some fans that its 'cool and trendy' to slaughter players, for laughs with their mates, on social media etc. Folk play the part and cloud sensible judgement because of it and their underlying focus. I think some people do it intentionally and others unintentionally because its just naturally built into them.

Support the players and give them a fair chance before casting unfair opinions. Sure, sometimes negative things are right and fully justified and I myself will voice frustrations and concerns.

Other times they are just extremely stupid and naive.

Pretty much spot on imo.

[BILLYHIBS]

James was poor last night imo

JR has identified this and is the reason McGinn is coming in as he is a tried and tested right back and provides cover for other positions

I am not writing the guy off as perhaps like Newall he can play another position perhaps right of a midfield in a diamond

He is good technically on the ball is a good passer though let himself down last night on a few occasions and takes a good free kick though once again I felt for him last night

He needs to do things quicker and faster and just get there

Dundee United identified this last night and were targeting his side and he was getting pulled out of position time and time again

5 out of 10

[SMAXXA]

He was fine last night - not great, but closer to great than to terrible. 7/10 performance, imho.

How I saw it too

[Percy Vere]

How I saw it too

I’d say 6/10.
But as with many of PHs signings they need time. James not fully match fit so there’s room for improvement. Whether that’s with us I don’t know.

[Mikey]

There’s a few in that squad proving us all wrong. James hasn’t exactly set the heather alight but look at the turnaround in some of the other players... have some patience.

Correct. Even "the ineffective Newell" is showing more promise now that he's being played in his proper position.

[Captain Trips]

There’s a few in that squad proving us all wrong. James hasn’t exactly set the heather alight but look at the turnaround in some of the other players... have some patience.

In principle yes great in reality no. We call things game by game and that is what makes the game great thinking a player is poor but ends up good or even the other way round. Take Tom James just now who is getting some comment. Do we just be patient and not comment on players week by week until they have a suitable number of games under belt? Tom James isn't looking like a player just now IMO however i will be delighted if that changes but I will still comment on him as it is now.

its not about patience this message board and all fan forums are not about patience they are about opinion as of now. This place will be dead if we all just wait to see what happens. I think though that every single person whom was critical of Doidge is absolutely delighted for the big man personally and for what it has meant for Hibs.

[Barman Stanton]

Unfortunately Doidge is just one bad performance from plenty ripping into him again. Some people are just not happy unless they are moaning. Especially on here.

[J-C]

I think the first 10 games the team itself looked poor, poor manager and tactics and the majority of the new signings just didn't look good enough. We were without Boyle who adds a different dimension to our game and a manager who set us up not to lose. Doidge in particular looked a right huddy, couldn't hit a barn door but with a new manager and a change of tactics, its changed a few players. Not all will improve enough, James isn't good enough and Jackson is decent enough cover, Newell always looked a player and obviously more central is where he's more comfortable. I'm all for players showing us we were wrong, long may it continue.

[Diclonius]

Unfortunately Doidge is just one bad performance from plenty ripping into him again. Some people are just not happy unless they are moaning. Especially on here.

He had missed a few chances in the first half and I said at the time that the knives would be coming out.

[EAZY-ME]

Writing players off before they've kicked a ball seems to be working for us so why change it now

[hibsbollah]

This whole fitba message board game would be much more fun if we all admitted it's a bit of guesswork and none of us really know how football players are going to develop 100%. The best managers in the world get it wrong, why do we expect as punters who might watch or play a bit, know any better?

I think James, sadly, isn't a player. But I think Newell and Jackson are. But it's all supposition. And I wish them ALL well in the green and white shirt, always.

[MWHIBBIES]

James was poor last night imo

JR has identified this and is the reason McGinn is coming in as he is a tried and tested right back and provides cover for other positions

I am not writing the guy off as perhaps like Newall he can play another position perhaps right of a midfield in a diamond

He is good technically on the ball is a good passer though let himself down last night on a few occasions and takes a good free kick though once again I felt for him last night

He needs to do things quicker and faster and just get there

Dundee United identified this last night and were targeting his side and he was getting pulled out of position time and time again

5 out of 10
That will be why both United goals came from crosses on the
Left then...

James wasn't targeted at all.

[GreenPJ]

I think its not an unreasonable situation to expect players who would be earning decent money vs a scottish player equivalent to be of a standard that they should hit the ground running in a short space of time. You can perhaps give Newall some more leeway as he was played out of position although that is still a poor excuse. Doidge has come good in recent times but no one can deny that he had a very slow start to his career at Hibs and should have scored more than he has.

I don't understand how James can get a 7/10 from people for last night's performance. I get he hasn't had a lot of game time but his positioning and closing down were poor to say the least. Every time I have seen him he constantly backs off a player running at him. Again that may be confidence but he is a professional football player and he needs to work on building his own confidence plus he is in a team now that has picked up a few points and so some of that pressure should be lifted but I haven't seen it in his play.

Jackson is solid but is he an improvement on what we had at the club already.

I think fans expectations were right to expect more from the summer signings as all were relatively proven and had

[BILLYHIBS]

That will be why both United goals came from crosses on the
Left then...

James wasn't targeted at all.

Just watched the whole game back on HIBS TV

Alarming the amount of times he passes to the opposition follows the ball and wanders inside leaving his man free the opposition then pick out the left winger who is free in acres of space he is slow in getting back to try and recover his idea of a tackle is sticking a hopeful leg out to which the opposition forward is only too happy to skip over
The passage of play at the start of the second half highlights this point
The first goal was a central top drawer strike from Shankland who was not closed down but a brilliantly executed goal
Yes the initial cross came from the Dundee United right but Shankland still had a lot to do
The second was started by an inexplicable slack pass by Jackson outside our box on our right that led to a cross from the Dundee United right that took an unfortunate but lucky deflection
At no point have I said that James was responsible for any of the goals lost just the observation that his overall general standard of play, focus, urgency, concentration and application could be improved upon
I appreciate the guy has been out for sometime and it is only his second game
I have already said that he has good attributes and might still be useful if employed elsewhere in the team but I am not seeing it at full back
If not already done so I suggest you subscribe to HIBS TV

[Gypsy King]

James struggles to tackle and seems to back off even the most average of wide midfielders who almost always gleefully skip past him.

His Positioning is suspect he continuously gives it away and then gets caught aimlessly floundering around.

He doesn't seem to posses the necessary pace or strength for the SPL and seems to get bullied.

Give someone in the development squad a chance.

[supermcginn]

James struggles to tackle and seems to back off even the most average of wide midfielders who almost always gleefully skip past him.

His Positioning is suspect he continuously gives it away and then gets caught aimlessly floundering around.

He doesn't seem to posses the necessary pace or strength for the SPL and seems to get bullied.

Give someone in the development squad a chance.
Couldn't agree more, i've hardly ever seen a full back that's beat more easily than him. His lack of pace and aggression is staggering and will never cut it up here in the high paced games.

[Iggy Pope]

Thought the ball came off Jackson at their 2nd rather than him misplacing a pass really.

[The Captain....]

Newell has been a revelation since playing the central, pass it out from the back role. He looked like a fish out of water out wide..seems much better with the game in front of him. I like him and Omeonga as a midfield pairing...I thought they both did well against Motherwell.

I will admit to getting it wrong about Doidge..not that I was overly critical..I just didn't think he looked like a natural finisher. He seems to get in positions to score and is sticking more than his fair share away so good on him.

The other signings under Hecky Im still not convinced about as starters tbh. Maybe useful squad members until we can get better in.

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[GreenArmyyy!]

Agree in principle but sorry not James...awful and couldnt tackle a fish supper mate

Agree. I can deal with poor players that give their all but I really don’t like Tom James’s attitude, lazy, lazy player. Several teams he just allowed D United players to stroll passed him with ease last night.

[Steve20]

It's a Hibs forum. Surely people are allowed opinions on players.

[BILLYHIBS]

Thought the ball came off Jackson at their 2nd rather than him misplacing a pass really.

At the start of the move Jackson takes a heavy touch to giveaway possession outside our box the ball is switched to the Dundee United right it is whipped in Sprole shoots towards goal and it takes a deflection off what looks like Joe Newall ?

[SquashedFrogg]

Agree. I can deal with poor players that give their all but I really don’t like Tom James’s attitude, lazy, lazy player. Several teams he just allowed D United players to stroll passed him with ease last night.

I don't know him. I've never spoken to him, or anyone who knows him. Interesting to hear he has a poor attitude. I'm surprised Ross played him in that case.

[Barman Stanton]

It's a Hibs forum. Surely people are allowed opinions on players.

Course they are. But I believe the constant negativity on here and social media early in the season transferred to the stadium on match day. If someone reads that Whittaker is pish enough they start to believe it. Resulting in the shocking situation where he was boo'd at his home ground. Not sure how that ever helps.

[matty_f]

Thought the ball came off Jackson at their 2nd rather than him misplacing a pass really.

That was my take on it as well, think he was blocking a shot or pass and couldn't adjust his feet in time. Wouldn't put any blame at his door for it.

[matty_f]

It's a Hibs forum. Surely people are allowed opinions on players.

Everyone's allowed an opinion, I think the point is maybe wait until that's an informed opinion before slating folk.

[LaMotta]

That was my take on it as well, think he was blocking a shot or pass and couldn't adjust his feet in time. Wouldn't put any blame at his door for it.

Scott Allan losing his man was more culpable.

[BILLYHIBS]

That was my take on it as well, think he was blocking a shot or pass and couldn't adjust his feet in time. Wouldn't put any blame at his door for it.

Yip strange one Dundee United player hits a hopeful ball into the box and the ball seems to hit off him I don’t think he is expecting it is unable to control it and is taken by surprise before he knows it it has bounced back to a United player

[BILLYHIBS]

Everyone's allowed an opinion, I think the point is maybe wait until that's an informed opinion before slating folk.

Agree but with regard to Tom James the same issues are being repeated and highlighted time and time again ever since the beginning of the season and folk are starting to form an opinion

[Shrekko]

Course they are. But I believe the constant negativity on here and social media early in the season transferred to the stadium on match day. If someone reads that Whittaker is pish enough they start to believe it. Resulting in the shocking situation where he was boo'd at his home ground. Not sure how that ever helps.

No doubt at all it does. People seem to be in competition to be the most abusive/critical. Each to their own but I don't get how fans i.e. 'fanatics' of a football club get off on this. Criticism is fine but a lot of the stuff goes way beyond and is not a good advert for the club. It's been said already but the clubs social media feeds are just horrible.

[SquashedFrogg]

Agree but with regard to Tom James the same issues are being repeated and highlighted time and time again ever since the beginning of the season and folk are starting to form an opinion

How many games has he played when fully match fit?

[Barman Stanton]

No doubt at all it does. People seem to be in competition to be the most abusive/critical. Each to their own but I don't get how fans i.e. 'fanatics' of a football club get off on this. Criticism is fine but a lot of the stuff goes way beyond and is not a good advert for the club. It's been said already but the clubs social media feeds are just horrible.

Some of them may well be Hibs fans, but many have forgotten what supporting your team is all about.

[BILLYHIBS]

How many games has he played when fully match fit?

Good point a point I have already alluded to on this thread

I am not his Fitness Coach but he played 10 games up to and including the semi final versus Celtic scoring one goal but missing most of August and September through injury

I did not see the Semi Final as I was on holiday but heard it wasn’t pretty

My memories of Stirling away and St Mirren home are not great

[Smartie]

James has been up against a couple of tough opponents in the past couple of games and there have been spells in the games when he has been roasted regularly but also spells where he has done a lot better.

The tendency he has to stand off players won’t go down well with gnashing fans (and I can’t say I particularly like watching him run away from wingers) but even when he’s been exploited we’ve not been losing goals down his side.

[SquashedFrogg]

Good point a point I have already alluded to on this thread

I am not his Fitness Coach but he played 10 games up to and including the semi final versus Celtic scoring one goal but missing most of August and September through injury

I did not see the Semi Final as I was on holiday but heard it wasn’t pretty

My memories of Stirling away and St Mirren home are not great

Fair enough. I'm meaning match fitness after a run of games as opposed to general fitness.

I think it's safe to say however that no one covered themselves in glory earlier in the season under PH. Particularly as half of those games were during the pre-season league cup games.

For me that's 2 games under Ross after a long time out of the 1st team.

I'm not saying he's defo the answer but as with Doidge and Newell, I think it's far too early to judge.

[hibsbollah]

James has been up against a couple of tough opponents in the past couple of games and there have been spells in the games when he has been roasted regularly but also spells where he has done a lot better.

The tendency he has to stand off players won’t go down well with gnashing fans (and I can’t say I particularly like watching him run away from wingers) but even when he’s been exploited we’ve not been losing goals down his side.

Agree with this balanced assessment on James.

[BILLYHIBS]

Fair enough. I'm meaning match fitness after a run of games as opposed to general fitness.

I think it's safe to say however that no one covered themselves in glory earlier in the season under PH. Particularly as half of those games were during the pre-season league cup games.

For me that's 2 games under Ross after a long time out of the 1st team.

I'm not saying he's defo the answer but as with Doidge and Newell, I think it's far too early to judge.

Cannae argue with that

A point at high flying Motherwell and the next round of the Cup what’s not to like?

Jury still out on James for me though hopefully like Newall and Doidge he will find his niche

[SquashedFrogg]

Cannae argue with that

A point at high flying Motherwell and the next round of the Cup what’s not to like?

Jury still out on James for me though hopefully like Newall and Doidge he will find his niche

I just think he deserves an opportunity at least. Still relatively young at 23, so there's loads of room to develop as a player.

Time will tell I guess.

[BILLYHIBS]

I just think he deserves an opportunity at least. Still relatively young at 23, so there's loads of room to develop as a player.

Time will tell I guess.

👍🏾

[we are hibs]

Scott Allan losing his man was more culpable.

This was my thoughts at the time. I thought he could have done more to match the run in behind.

[GreenArmyyy!]

I don't know him. I've never spoken to him, or anyone who knows him. Interesting to hear he has a poor attitude. I'm surprised Ross played him in that case.

Oh well, every day’s a school day!

[SquashedFrogg]

Oh well, every day’s a school day!

True. I assume you base your comment ITK info?

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

It looks like the classic Richie Towell syndrome, where it looked like there wasn’t a player there.

I don’t think fb is his position but he’s elitist in possession and has a mean shot. He’s of value to us, just maybe not at fb.


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[SquashedFrogg]

It looks like the classic Richie Towell syndrome, where it looked like there wasn’t a player there.

I don’t think fb is his position but he’s elitist in possession and has a mean shot. He’s of value to us, just maybe not at fb.


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Excellent point. I actually think he's quite a composed player. Defo think we've not seen him at his best yet.

[J-C]

It looks like the classic Richie Towell syndrome, where it looked like there wasn’t a player there.

I don’t think fb is his position but he’s elitist in possession and has a mean shot. He’s of value to us, just maybe not at fb.


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Towell went on to a decent career in the middle of the park, his preferred position, also seem to remember playing Wotherspoon at RB due to his versatility, he's proved he's a better player in the middle. Maybe we should try James at DM and see how he gets on, personally I've not seen anything in him that shows he's anywhere good enough for us and Ross bringing in McGinn maybe thinks the same.