4-4-2 and Allan

[J-C]

I always see lots of people wanting this formation but it doesn't allow Allan to play, instead needing 2 energetic midfielders. The players seem unable to play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 so maybe reverting back to 3 at the back lets us have the 2 strikers and Allan. Thoughts?

[DTS]

Drop Scott Allan?

[Hibee Mac]

I think the next couple of games should be played without Alan starting anyway.

4-4-2 with Newell and Omeonga worked well for us on Wed and I'd be tempted to stick with it. That being said... Motherwell are a completely different beast this season when compared to Hamilton so Jack Ross may need to try something else

[jeffers]

I worry about the direction a Hibs team is heading in if it can't find a place for Scott Allan. That's not to say he hasn't been poor the past few games though.

[JohnM1875]

I worry about the direction a Hibs team is heading in if it can't find a place for Scott Allan. That's not to say he hasn't been poor the past few games though.

He's been brutal. Still our most talented player though so we need to find a way or formation to get him firing again.

[jacomo]

I worry about the direction a Hibs team is heading in if it can't find a place for Scott Allan. That's not to say he hasn't been poor the past few games though.


If he’s out of form what is the issue?

No player is undroppable.

[jeffers]

If he’s out of form what is the issue?

No player is undroppable.

I'm talking about longer term, not about dropping him for a game or two.

[Brightside]

442 diamond suits him best. But leaves us exposed wide. I’d like us to at least use 352 against some of the lesser teams.

[J-C]

442 diamond suits him best. But leaves us exposed wide. I’d like us to at least use 352 against some of the lesser teams.

352 was superb with McGinn and Dylan, the diamond works to an extent but we struggle to stretch teams with it and the better teams expose the flanks. The 433 should work with Flo, Doidge and Boyle but for some strange reason they just cant play it.

[S4uzee]

442 diamond suits him best. But leaves us exposed wide. I’d like us to at least use 352 against some of the lesser teams.

Definitely agree with the 3-5-2. Seems strange we’ve never used it since Lennon

[S4uzee]

352 was superb with McGinn and Dylan, the diamond works to an extent but we struggle to stretch teams with it and the better teams expose the flanks. The 433 should work with Flo, Doidge and Boyle but for some strange reason they just cant play it.

That’s because Flo can’t play out wide

[J-C]

That’s because Flo can’t play out wide

Play Horgan then

[S4uzee]

Play Horgan then

I agree, Boyle and Horgan wide with Doidge up top

[calumhibee1]

I always see lots of people wanting this formation but it doesn't allow Allan to play, instead needing 2 energetic midfielders. The players seem unable to play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 so maybe reverting back to 3 at the back lets us have the 2 strikers and Allan. Thoughts?

I’d love to see us go 3-5-2 again. Boyle on the right, Lewis on the left.

[jonny]

That’s because Flo can’t play out wide

Absolutely this.

[jacomo]

I'm talking about longer term, not about dropping him for a game or two.


Don’t think this team has a settled formation yet.

Agree that 352 might be the way to go in some games.

[hibee-boys]

If we get through the utd game i'd like to see us try out 3-5-2 against BSC, not sure i'd be comfortable enough to employ it against Motherwell.

Gray-Jackson-Hanlon

Boyle-Steph-Hallberg-Horgan
Allan

Flo-Doidge

[Pilrig_Sauzee]

I think we’ve relied too much on Allan. Understandable, but I don’t think he has the energy or talent to carry us over the line every game. Many games he will but not all of them. I suspect he would benefit from occasional game out the starting 11, and maybe even the bench, recharge and come back fresh.

[Borderhibbie76]

I worry about the direction a Hibs team is heading in if it can't find a place for Scott Allan. That's not to say he hasn't been poor the past few games though.

Needs dropped tho...been poor the last few games

[angus hibby]

That’s because Flo can’t play out wide


His performance at Tannadice would suggest otherwise.

[18Craig75]

3-5-2 is the best option for me.

Not sure if we have the legs at wingback now compared to when we played the formation successfully a couple of years ago.

He likes the diamond 4-4-2 but we will always concede goals playing that as we totally surrender the wings.

4-3-3 doesn’t really work because we don’t have a DM and Flo is wasted our wide. So if we were to sell Flo for a Martin Boyle mk2 that formation might work.

He’s had a dip in form anyway (as everyone does) so I’d leave him out the team today.

[sauzee=legend]

With Allan in my eyes.....
If he is playing well, he will play.
If he isn’t playing well, he deserves to be dropped.
Just like any other player would be dropped.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

If we get through the utd game i'd like to see us try out 3-5-2 against BSC, not sure i'd be comfortable enough to employ it against Motherwell.

Gray-Jackson-Hanlon

Boyle-Steph-Hallberg-Horgan
Allan

Flo-Doidge

Swap Gray for McGregor and Horgan for Stevenson and I’d give it a shot.

[jeffers]

Not disagreeing that dropping him for a game or two isn’t unwarranted based on his last two performances but as I said longer term we need to find a formation that allows him to do what he does best. Part of the issue IMO is he isn’t getting enough options to make the killer pass, with really only Boyle making the runs for him.

Another way of looking at it is if we had one striker suited to playing up front on his own we could put another body in midfield and Allan could focus on playing to his strengths. Imagine for example LG making runs behind defences for Allan to supply.

[keep the faith]

He's been brutal. Still our most talented player though so we need to find a way or formation to get him firing again.

Brutal?? Behave. He has been out of sorts and had one poor half in midweek . Even last sunday he was directly a creator in both our goals.
Scott Allan is a huge asset for us and needs encouraged and enjoyed. Maybe needs a game or two out the team to get back on it but let's not start slating him when there are so many other issues. My goodness we need his talent!!

[Smartie]

The best formation for Scott Allan is 3-5-2 with another couple of energetic central midfielders, a bit of pace out wide, and two strikers for him to pick out passes to.

It’s a formation that suits our players, with the possible exception of Lewis at WB.

Personally, I am in favour of playing a formation that suits our best players, and Scott Allan is most certainly one of those.

[green with envy]

Play Horgan then

Keep Horgan as an impact player where he is more useful. Wednesday being a prime example.

[JohnM1875]

Brutal?? Behave. He has been out of sorts and had one poor half in midweek . Even last sunday he was directly a creator in both our goals.
Scott Allan is a huge asset for us and needs encouraged and enjoyed. Maybe needs a game or two out the team to get back on it but let's not start slating him when there are so many other issues. My goodness we need his talent!!

Like I said. He's our most talented player. So we agree there.

Doesn't mean he should escape criticism. And I genuinely think, by his standards, he's been brutal the past few games. If Slivka had given the ball away as much as Allan has he'd be getting slaughtered on here.

Anyway. We agree about how much we need him playing well in our team!

[J-C]

I actually think Kamberi limits us as he isn't mobile enough to play out wide, I watched the laddie Nisbet last night and his movement was excellent. Either him or similar would allow us 3 up top and 3 in the middle, even play Horfan higher as a side striker like Boyle plays, unfortunately he's very inconsistent.
Weirdly enough Kamberi seemed to have more movement when we went 442 as he's happier through the middle.

[Onceinawhile]

That’s because Flo can’t play out wide

Played pretty well out wide against Dundee Utd?

[J-C]

The best formation for Scott Allan is 3-5-2 with another couple of energetic central midfielders, a bit of pace out wide, and two strikers for him to pick out passes to.

It’s a formation that suits our players, with the possible exception of Lewis at WB.

Personally, I am in favour of playing a formation that suits our best players, and Scott Allan is most certainly one of those.

Even though Lewis was very good the last time we played it.

[Smartie]

Like I said. He's our most talented player. So we agree there.

Doesn't mean he should escape criticism. And I genuinely think, by his standards, he's been brutal the past few games. If Slivka had given the ball away as much as Allan has he'd be getting slaughtered on here.

Anyway. We agree about how much we need him playing well in our team!

I was thinking after he went off on Wednesday that it might have one of the worst performances from a Hibs player ever.

Nothing came off for him at all.

He’s got enough credit in the bank for us not to overdo the criticism, but he was awful and looked tired.

[AlbertK86]

Allan can play well in a diamond at the tip.

However I agree that he is most effective in a 3-5-2 where he has wing backs to feed as well as strikers. Keeps opposition guessing.

Whatever I definitely think he needs rested today and maybe Tuesday he can come off bench and give us a final push to qualify if we are up against it



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[J-C]

Thanks for adding well thought out replies to this thread, good to see discussion instead of name calling and digs, good to see peoples ideas on the players and how we should try and play them.

[dchibs]

Keep Horgan as an impact player where he is more useful. Wednesday being a prime example.

Agree with this.

[Smartie]

Even though Lewis was very good the last time we played it.

Yes, he was.

I’ve always preferred Lewis as a full back who does a bit of attacking rather than someone whose primary focus is attacking.

And at 32, how much longer will he have the legs for it,

[J-C]

Yes, he was.

I’ve always preferred Lewis as a full back who does a bit of attacking rather than someone whose primary focus is attacking.

And at 32, how much longer will he have the legs for it,

True, thankfully he's a fit laddie.

[inglisavhibs]

I always see lots of people wanting this formation but it doesn't allow Allan to play, instead needing 2 energetic midfielders. The players seem unable to play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 so maybe reverting back to 3 at the back lets us have the 2 strikers and Allan. Thoughts?
Scott is not playing well enough at the moment to be in the team. He will still be an important player for us though.

[keep the faith]

Like I said. He's our most talented player. So we agree there.

Doesn't mean he should escape criticism. And I genuinely think, by his standards, he's been brutal the past few games. If Slivka had given the ball away as much as Allan has he'd be getting slaughtered on here.

Anyway. We agree about how much we need him playing well in our team!

👍👍

[Heisenberg]

I wonder why we haven’t tried 3-5-2 this season yet too. Seems it would suit the players we’ve got quite well.

[Unseen work]

I’m a fan of 352 but my concern would be that Boyle as a wing back would take away too much of his play in the opposing half, we need him in the final third.

I wouldn’t be against seeing Allan on the left of a 4, for example:

................Bogdan.......
Gray Jackson. Hanlon Stevenson
Boyle Omeonga Hallberg Allan
..........Kamberi...Doidge...

He naturally drifts out to the left hand side during the game anyway and from there he could still cut in on his right and make the killer pass. When not in possession the midfield gets tight with two banks of four and make teams play it down the flanks.

With that team it’s got options to be versatile and change formations throughout the game.

[SideBurns]

I really like 3-5-2. It is a fluid, versatile system and gives both width and defensive cover. I also think it suits a CH of Paul Hanlon's style, as he likes to step forward into midfield and this system allows him to do that in the knowledge he has two central defensive partners behind him.

Obviously it hinges on wing backs who have the energy and pace to get up the park and back again. Lewis still has the fitness levels, although his apparent lack of confidence in the final 3rd continues to let him down. Given SDG's injury problems, I'm not convinced he still has it in him to play the role. But we have to hope that young players in the reserves are going to be pushing both of the old legends in the near future. That's the point of youth development, after all.

Since the thread references Allan, it should be a formation that works for him too. But we have to find a way that suits the team generally and produces results, rather than one which seems to support Scotty. Given his talent, ideally he would fit into the team's style of play as it would be a real shame if his 3rd spell here doesn't turn out as successful as the first two.

[Liam978]

[QUOTE=inglisavhibs;6055993]Scott is not playing well enough at the moment to be in the team. He will still be an important player for us though.[/
Partly agree with this, however I saw a post on here describing Scottie as brutal the last few games. Does that include his vision for both goals at Tannadice ?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

[QUOTE=inglisavhibs;6055993]Scott is not playing well enough at the moment to be in the team. He will still be an important player for us though.[/
Partly agree with this, however I saw a post on here describing Scottie as brutal the last few games. Does that include his vision for both goals at Tannadice ?
brutal, bombscare, still dining out on... all just indicators that without further explanation perhaps the rest of the post should be ignored. I blame the Tabloids and shorter attention spans.

[Hibeesmad]

I’d love to see us go 3-5-2 again. Boyle on the right, Lewis on the left.

This. With Gray at the right side of a back three.

[Hibeesmad]

I’m a fan of 352 but my concern would be that Boyle as a wing back would take away too much of his play in the opposing half, we need him in the final third.

I wouldn’t be against seeing Allan on the left of a 4, for example:

................Bogdan.......
Gray Jackson. Hanlon Stevenson
Boyle Omeonga Hallberg Allan
..........Kamberi...Doidge...

He naturally drifts out to the left hand side during the game anyway and from there he could still cut in on his right and make the killer pass. When not in possession the midfield gets tight with two banks of four and make teams play it down the flanks.

With that team it’s got options to be versatile and change formations throughout the game.

Didn't we play Allan there against St Johnstone earlier in the season? Then Hecky decided to take him off.

[Ozyhibby]

Lot of criticism of Scot Allan recently but we got better when he came on yesterday. Not totally down to what he done in possession but also because he stopped the Motherwell no 22 cruising about like Pirlo like he had done all match until then. Motherwell had controlled possession until then because Omeonga and Newall were outnumbered and were not able to pick him up. Once Allan came on he moved into that space and we stopped them playing.


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[Hibeesmad]

Lot of criticism of Scot Allan recently but we got better when he came on yesterday. Not totally down to what he done in possession but also because he stopped the Motherwell no 22 cruising about like Pirlo like he had done all match until then. Motherwell had controlled possession until then because Omeonga and Newall were outnumbered and were not able to pick him up. Once Allan came on he moved into that space and we stopped them playing.


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Need to remember that he's not playing alongside the likes of McGinn and McGeough anymore either.

[Smartie]

Lot of criticism of Scot Allan recently but we got better when he came on yesterday. Not totally down to what he done in possession but also because he stopped the Motherwell no 22 cruising about like Pirlo like he had done all match until then. Motherwell had controlled possession until then because Omeonga and Newall were outnumbered and were not able to pick him up. Once Allan came on he moved into that space and we stopped them playing.


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He provided a better cutting edge with some very good passing when he went on.

Once he was just getting into position to get his pass away when he was cynically taken out from behind. Scotland is the only country in the world where that isn’t a foul, a yellow card and a strong word that one more foul and you’re off.

[Brightside]

Thanks for adding well thought out replies to this thread, good to see discussion instead of name calling and digs, good to see peoples ideas on the players and how we should try and play them.

Fanny

[Brightside]

I’m a fan of 352 but my concern would be that Boyle as a wing back would take away too much of his play in the opposing half, we need him in the final third.

I wouldn’t be against seeing Allan on the left of a 4, for example:

................Bogdan.......
Gray Jackson. Hanlon Stevenson
Boyle Omeonga Hallberg Allan
..........Kamberi...Doidge...

He naturally drifts out to the left hand side during the game anyway and from there he could still cut in on his right and make the killer pass. When not in possession the midfield gets tight with two banks of four and make teams play it down the flanks.

With that team it’s got options to be versatile and change formations throughout the game.

He won’t track back tho. So in that set up Lewis would get overloaded and there would be a thread on here saying how hibs need a whole new back 4. (Started by 90+2)

[J-C]

Fanny

Haha

[BoomtownHibees]

I was thinking after he went off on Wednesday that it might have one of the worst performances from a Hibs player ever.

Steady!!

[berwickhibee]

That’s because Flo can’t play out wide

Spot on.

[eastcoasthibby]

I think yesterday when we went to a 4-2-3-1 that we looked a better team with better balance ....the only problem I think we have with it is that the players need to make it work for us ...in terms of closing the game down, when Scott Allan came on he did very little and that may well be down to where he is just now but, thought our shape was better and with better players in certain areas it will work ..I actually think we have the players to play this system, with the option to change it if need be readily. Not convinced we should have Boyle and Horgan on the park starting many games though ...

[Gmack7]

Joe Newall should be in any formation we try just now

[Robbo6-2]

Joe Newall should be in any formation we try just now

Hes like a new signing in centre mid tbh.

He was excellent yesterday again, working hard and closing down with abit quality on the ball. Drove forward with ball too.

Its just a surprise its took both managers so long to realise centre mid is his best position even tho every interview he has done he has said that centre mid is his best position.

Hope he keeps it up

[Smartie]

I think yesterday when we went to a 4-2-3-1 that we looked a better team with better balance ....the only problem I think we have with it is that the players need to make it work for us ...in terms of closing the game down, when Scott Allan came on he did very little and that may well be down to where he is just now but, thought our shape was better and with better players in certain areas it will work ..I actually think we have the players to play this system, with the option to change it if need be readily. Not convinced we should have Boyle and Horgan on the park starting many games though ...

I think it's totally the wrong formation to play at home to Hamilton Accies when expecting to attack and win, but I think it's quite good when we're playing better teams, looking to keep it tight and hit on the break. Sadly Motherwell away is one of those games these days, but even under Hecky we probably had our best performance this season under him playing this way at home to Celtic.

[Ozyhibby]

I think it's totally the wrong formation to play at home to Hamilton Accies when expecting to attack and win, but I think it's quite good when we're playing better teams, looking to keep it tight and hit on the break. Sadly Motherwell away is one of those games these days, but even under Hecky we probably had our best performance this season under him playing this way at home to Celtic.

Played properly, 4-2-3-1 is not a defensive formation. We were much more attacking yesterday when we were set up like this. If Boyle and Horgan get forward quickly then it’s more like a 4-3-3 .


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