1140

[Carheenlea]

1140 at Livingston v St Johnstone last night. Yes, Livingston are above us in the league, but they don’t contribute anything at all to the greater good of Scottish football.

[Brightside]

Get more than that at Women’s games. How do Livi survive? 😂

[Jones28]

Get more than that at Women’s games. How do Livi survive? 😂

It’s pathetic. But they offloaded a hell of a lot of players in the summer, I’m sure I heard 4/5 names on sportsound last night. They’re a cyclical club, a ten year cycle where they assemble a good squad, spend 2/3/4 years in the top flight, have to flog their players then plunge back into obscurity for a few more years.

[Alfred E Newman]

The sooner Livingston and Hamilton and out the league the better. Their pitches have a lot to do with their survival. I think last night was Livingstons fourth home win in a row.

[GloryGlory]

1140 at Livingston v St Johnstone last night. Yes, Livingston are above us in the league, but they don’t contribute anything at all to the greater good of Scottish football.

Whose fault is it that they are above us? Theirs or ours?

[Carheenlea]

Whose fault is it that they are above us? Theirs or ours?

Ours, but that’s not the general observation I’m making. A home crowd like that, for a club in the top 6 is embarrassing. It adds nothing when trying to sell the Scottish game at the top level.

[Jones28]

The sooner Livingston and Hamilton and out the league the better. Their pitches have a lot to do with their survival. I think last night was Livingstons fourth home win in a row.

What I don’t understand is under what grounds are artificial pitches allowed? Surely they’re giving the home side an unfair advantage?

[GreenCastle]

I know it was midweek and Hamilton are near bottom of the league but that away support last night was probably one of the smallest I’ve ever seen from a top league club.

Not having a go at Hamilton as better than supporting Old Firm but slightly worrying.

[delbert]

I know it was midweek and Hamilton are near bottom of the league but that away support last night was probably one of the smallest I’ve ever seen from a top league club.

Not having a go at Hamilton as better than supporting Old Firm but slightly worrying.

As I mentioned on a previous post, they had 900 of their own fans at hone last Saturday

[Chuck Rhoades]

I know it was midweek and Hamilton are near bottom of the league but that away support last night was probably one of the smallest I’ve ever seen from a top league club.

Not having a go at Hamilton as better than supporting Old Firm but slightly worrying.

I counted 82 of them during the middle of the first half. Discount a few at the toilet / pie stand and you’re still under 100.

Yes, that’s how dull our first half was 😂

[JDHibs]

Teams like Hamilton & Livingston are in our league on merit. They are both well run clubs who manage to compete in this league without anywhere near the same resources as other clubs.

Livi being above us in the table after losing Gallagher, Halkett & the keeper they had is a testament to good scouting & coaching. Our fans would slate our board for signing players like Dykes & Lamie from the championship, so we go sign players from the championship down south who flop. Shrewd signings who fit the model.

Hamilton manage to survive using their youth system. Constant conveyor belt of talent that gets game time in the 1st team & gets sold for profit. You arent trying to tell me they have better academy facilities than us? They also take players like Martin, Alston, Oakley & Fon Williams who are deemed not good enough for clubs around them & fit them into their team. Martin & Alston made Hallberg & Slivka look like amateurs last night.

2 clubs, 2 totally different methods of how to run a football club & they are successful at it, deserve more respect.

I dont like either clubs style of play, but you know what you are going to get, an organised team, who will press as a team, full of hungry players who play for the coach. Not their fault the local football fans would rather support bigger clubs, but they make do & do it very well.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Upside to a crowd of 1140 is that none of them would still have been waiting to get in half and hour after kick off.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Teams like Hamilton & Livingston are in our league on merit. They are both well run clubs who manage to compete in this league without anywhere near the same resources as other clubs.

Livi being above us in the table after losing Gallagher, Halkett & the keeper they had is a testament to good scouting & coaching. Our fans would slate our board for signing players like Dykes & Lamie from the championship, so we go sign players from the championship down south who flop. Shrewd signings who fit the model.

Hamilton manage to survive using their youth system. Constant conveyor belt of talent that gets game time in the 1st team & gets sold for profit. You arent trying to tell me they have better academy facilities than us? They also take players like Martin, Alston, Oakley & Fon Williams who are deemed not good enough for clubs around them & fit them into their team. Martin & Alston made Hallberg & Slivka look like amateurs last night.

2 clubs, 2 totally different methods of how to run a football club & they are successful at it, deserve more respect.

I dont like either clubs style of play, but you know what you are going to get, an organised team, who will press as a team, full of hungry players who play for the coach. Not their fault the local football fans would rather support bigger clubs, but they make do & do it very well.

The likes of Livvi and Hamilton provoke two schools of thought, both of which are equally valid IMO.

A ) The merit angle. From a purely sporting POV they absolutely deserve their place in the top league, in order to survive year after year, especially in the case of Hamilton, they have to be incredibly well run clubs from a financial and coaching point of view to be able to avoid relegation on a long term basis .. they way Hamilton have done that and Livvi's excellent season so far is testament to their efforts. It's nothing short of admirable.

B) The image angle. For different reasons both clubs suffer from a woeful lack of support from their local communities. Hamilton since time immemorial has been a hotbed of OF glory hunting and Livingston as a new town with influx from East and West will always have residents who already have allegiance to other teams rather than the local one, which lets not forget is also an incomer from Edinburgh.

Their lack of home support looks terrible on TV and their pathetic away supports aren't exactly a boost to the coffers of any club they play. Their plastic pitches belong in amateur or regional leagues, not in the top flight of a league that want's to be taken seriously. The fact that they are in the top flight at the expense of clubs like Dundee United, Dundee, Dunfermline or even Partick Thistle, all clubs with far bigger home supports and far bigger away supports is without doubt detrimental to the finances of the league, not to mention the atmosphere inside our stadiums.

And it bares saying again. From an image point of view their clear lack of support looks terrible on TV and does no favours to a league hoping to sell its product to audiences outwith Scotland ... In Livvi's case at some games the camera placement makes it look like the stadium is totally empty ... how the hell can that be good?

[WeeRussell]

Teams like Hamilton & Livingston are in our league on merit. They are both well run clubs who manage to compete in this league without anywhere near the same resources as other clubs.

Livi being above us in the table after losing Gallagher, Halkett & the keeper they had is a testament to good scouting & coaching. Our fans would slate our board for signing players like Dykes & Lamie from the championship, so we go sign players from the championship down south who flop. Shrewd signings who fit the model.

Hamilton manage to survive using their youth system. Constant conveyor belt of talent that gets game time in the 1st team & gets sold for profit. You arent trying to tell me they have better academy facilities than us? They also take players like Martin, Alston, Oakley & Fon Williams who are deemed not good enough for clubs around them & fit them into their team. Martin & Alston made Hallberg & Slivka look like amateurs last night.

2 clubs, 2 totally different methods of how to run a football club & they are successful at it, deserve more respect.

I dont like either clubs style of play, but you know what you are going to get, an organised team, who will press as a team, full of hungry players who play for the coach. Not their fault the local football fans would rather support bigger clubs, but they make do & do it very well.

:aok: Yep. It's all a bit 'big' clubby and old firmish for me, this looking down our noses at clubs in our league. Especially those outperforming us.

[allezsauzee]

Fair play to both of these teams who have done well with limited resources. I don't think your revenue or fan base should be determining where you are in the league, otherwise we might as well give up now and let Celtic and The Rangers play out the league between themselves. I'm more inclined to have a go at teams like Hearts and Aberdeen who do have adequate resources and yet consistently have a playing style that does nothing to promote football as an entertainment.

[Brightside]

What I don’t understand is under what grounds are artificial pitches allowed? Surely they’re giving the home side an unfair advantage?

The livi pitch is one of the worst ive seen. We took an u15 team there last season for a cup game and ended up with 4 injuries, one boy out for the season. All due to the pitch. The amount of rubber chucked on it is unreal.

[Steven79]

Fair play to both of these teams who have done well with limited resources. I don't think your revenue or fan base should be determining where you are in the league, otherwise we might as well give up now and let Celtic and The Rangers play out the league between themselves. I'm more inclined to have a go at teams like Hearts and Aberdeen who do have adequate resources and yet consistently have a playing style that does nothing to promote football as an entertainment.

I agree with both points of the argument but in particular the point about Aberdeen & Hearts as they both have a style (Aberdeen more so) that makes them look like a side that are trying to stay up rather than compete in the top 4 of the table.

In the case of Aberdeen they kick us off the park and somehow get away with it, go down at the slightest contact and win free kicks/you get booked then they fluke a win when they deserve nothing and it's eye bleeding stuff.

You couldn't pay me enough to be an Aberdeen season ticket holder...

[Onion]

I counted 82 of them during the middle of the first half. Discount a few at the toilet / pie stand and you’re still under 100.

Yes, that’s how dull our first half was 😂

72 of which are stalkers from Gorgie.

[lord bunberry]

Livingston survive due to the fact that they are able to have so many away fans when the bigger teams play them. Celtic and the huns bring around 7k and hibs and hearts around 4K. I don’t know what’s happened with Hamilton as they were on a par supporter wise with teams like Motherwell and Airdrie not so long ago, now they’re miles below those two teams.

[Steven79]

Livingston survive due to the fact that they are able to have so many away fans when the bigger teams play them. Celtic and the huns bring around 7k and hibs and hearts around 4K. I don’t know what’s happened with Hamilton as they were on a par supporter wise with teams like Motherwell and Airdrie not so long ago, now they’re miles below those two teams.

Airdrie who get on average 1,000 per game?

[Green_one]

Well run? On merit?

If I recall correctly Livi killed another club, went down the tubes financially, had dodgy management, got a ground largely built by the council and have one of the worst pitches in professional football.

Great. Lets all imitate them. Sounds brilliant

I also recall that after beating us in the league cup final (with players they could not actually afford) they then got the lowest league attendance in SPL history up to that time.

Livi are in the same category as Gretna as far as I am concerned. Media darling but basically toxic and undeserving. The fact they and others get an advantage from having inferior pitches shows that the SFA is again unwilling to do anything about clubs cheating the system. In that they are consistent. Makes a mockery about their position of repeatedly blocking Falkirk. What is the criteria now? - have set of strips and a ball.

Yeah I agree its annoying that we still cannot beat them but lets not pretend they are virtuous or worth imitating in any way.

Rant over

[hibeerealist]

Well run? On merit?

If I recall correctly Livi killed another club, went down the tubes financially, had dodgy management, got a ground largely built by the council and have one of the worst pitches in professional football.

Great. Lets all imitate them. Sounds brilliant

I also recall that after beating us in the league cup final (with players they could not actually afford) they then got the lowest league attendance in SPL history up to that time.

Livi are in the same category as Gretna as far as I am concerned. Media darling but basically toxic and undeserving. The fact they and others get an advantage from having inferior pitches shows that the SFA is again unwilling to do anything about clubs cheating the system. In that they are consistent. Makes a mockery about their position of repeatedly blocking Falkirk. What is the criteria now? - have set of strips and a ball.

Yeah I agree its annoying that we still cannot beat them but lets not pretend they are virtuous or worth imitating in any way.


Rant over

Good post, our league would not survive with a majority of teams (in SPL) playing to 1100 home fans, with plastic pitches etc

[The Rebel]

I counted 82 of them during the middle of the first half. Discount a few at the toilet / pie stand and you’re still under 100.

Yes, that’s how dull our first half was 😂

It was dull. I started counting in the first half too, but gave up after reaching 12 😆

[EI255]

Bring back Meadowbank Thistle :agree:

[Sweet Left Peg]

Fake club, playing on a fake pitch in a fake stadium in a fake town.

[Begbie79]

Livingston **** **** **** we prefer Meadowbank.............

[Franck Stanton]

1140 at Livingston v St Johnstone last night. Yes, Livingston are above us in the league, but they don’t contribute anything at all to the greater good of Scottish football.

Call that a crowd? Christ, we have more stewards on duty than that.

[KingPat4]

How can it be the clubs fault that crowds are so low?

It's down the age old problem, the gruesome twosome.

Agree about plastic pitches though, should be banned, especially at Kilmarnock.

[MinceAndTatties]

Teams like Hamilton & Livingston are in our league on merit. They are both well run clubs who manage to compete in this league without anywhere near the same resources as other clubs.

Livi being above us in the table after losing Gallagher, Halkett & the keeper they had is a testament to good scouting & coaching. Our fans would slate our board for signing players like Dykes & Lamie from the championship, so we go sign players from the championship down south who flop. Shrewd signings who fit the model.

Hamilton manage to survive using their youth system. Constant conveyor belt of talent that gets game time in the 1st team & gets sold for profit. You arent trying to tell me they have better academy facilities than us? They also take players like Martin, Alston, Oakley & Fon Williams who are deemed not good enough for clubs around them & fit them into their team. Martin & Alston made Hallberg & Slivka look like amateurs last night.

2 clubs, 2 totally different methods of how to run a football club & they are successful at it, deserve more respect.

I dont like either clubs style of play, but you know what you are going to get, an organised team, who will press as a team, full of hungry players who play for the coach. Not their fault the local football fans would rather support bigger clubs, but they make do & do it very well.
Excellent post

[660]

It was dull. I started counting in the first half too, but gave up after reaching 12 😆

Ran out of fingers?!

[monktonharp]

Ferranti Thistle,Meadowbank Thistle or Livingston fc, call them what you want but they filled a void in one of Scotland's largest modern towns that had no community based football club. the community, is comprised of huge Glasgow overspills and a lot of Edinburgh/West Lothian influx. a good mate of mine, who was a Celtic fan, decided to take his boy to Livi matches just to veer him away from the religious nonsense of the west re-fitba. for that, I applaud him. nevertheless, it is still an uphill struggle for even Livingston. don't like their playing surface, but do admire what their manager has done this season.the ground holds 10k, so they are there on merit

[lord bunberry]

Airdrie who get on average 1,000 per game?
That’s in the third tier, if they were in the premiership they’d average much more than Hamilton currently do.

[Vault Boy]

The livi pitch is one of the worst ive seen. We took an u15 team there last season for a cup game and ended up with 4 injuries, one boy out for the season. All due to the pitch. The amount of rubber chucked on it is unreal.

I don't really care about how big the crowd of an opposition club is, however this right here is the biggest issue.

Being able to maintain a suitable grass pitch should absolutely be a prerequisite of becoming a top flight team IMO. If they can handle it up in Dingwall, there's absolutely no excuse for anybody else in the league.

So completely inappropriate for the professional game.

[monktonharp]

I fully agree about the pitch. Killie, Liv and Hamilton all allowed this plastic pish in the SPL.. Alloa, and probably others too in other leagues

[CloudSquall]

There on merit but when you look to negotiations for TV deals and sponsorship you would much rather have the two Dundehh teams in there, even the likes of Falkirk and Dunfermline could replace a couple of the other Mickey mouse teams too in terms of size.

[IWasThere2016]

We are a generation away from a major structural change in Scottish Football IMHO. It will be akin to rugby with far fewer professional/full-time sides.

We arguably have only 5 teams with viable crowds e.g. the OF, Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen - and two of these sides have been bankrupt in recent years.

[brydekirk]

Teams like Hamilton & Livingston are in our league on merit. They are both well run clubs who manage to compete in this league without anywhere near the same resources as other clubs.

Livi being above us in the table after losing Gallagher, Halkett & the keeper they had is a testament to good scouting & coaching. Our fans would slate our board for signing players like Dykes & Lamie from the championship, so we go sign players from the championship down south who flop. Shrewd signings who fit the model.

Hamilton manage to survive using their youth system. Constant conveyor belt of talent that gets game time in the 1st team & gets sold for profit. You arent trying to tell me they have better academy facilities than us? They also take players like Martin, Alston, Oakley & Fon Williams who are deemed not good enough for clubs around them & fit them into their team. Martin & Alston made Hallberg & Slivka look like amateurs last night.

2 clubs, 2 totally different methods of how to run a football club & they are successful at it, deserve more respect.

I dont like either clubs style of play, but you know what you are going to get, an organised team, who will press as a team, full of hungry players who play for the coach. Not their fault the local football fans would rather support bigger clubs, but they make do & do it very well.

Like it

[Alfred E Newman]

The quality of football at our last game there was abysmal from both teams . The pitch is the main reason as it seems almost impossible to run with the ball or pass it around with any confidence. They have a way of playing that suits the pitch and gets results but it makes for grim viewing and probably one of the reasons next to nobody goes and watches them.

[monktonharp]

We are a generation away from a major structural change in Scottish Football IMHO. It will be akin to rugby with far fewer professional/full-time sides.

We arguably have only 5 teams with viable crowds e.g. the OF, Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen - and two of these sides have been bankrupt in recent years.a generation away? according to the Tories, this should be 40, maybe 50 years away :wink: