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Since1875Hibs
19-01-2020, 09:31 PM
We have put together a very short survey as we work with the club to make safe standing at Easter Road a possibility. All responses are appreciated:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/3FQ2JGK

McKenzie
19-01-2020, 09:35 PM
What’s the reason for it having to be in a corner? Section 20 would be the ideal position for this so that it can expand out to the sides. Family section in the main stand with best access to players as they warm up pre/during match. Positive steps however that the club are entertaining the possibility

007
19-01-2020, 09:53 PM
As the purpose is to make ER intimidating for away teams/fans then it would be best close to the away fans, so sections 44/45. Would imagine section 43 would join in with the singing and it would hopefully then spread.

ABZHFC
19-01-2020, 09:54 PM
What’s the reason for it having to be in a corner? Section 20 would be the ideal position for this so that it can expand out to the sides. Family section in the main stand with best access to players as they warm up pre/during match. Positive steps however that the club are entertaining the possibility

I'm assuming it's to do with sight lines. If you have safe standing in the corner, then less people's view of the pitch is impacted by a group standing for 90 minutes

04Sauzee
19-01-2020, 09:55 PM
Id like it to be bang centre of behind the goals tbh. But it's a start

04Sauzee
19-01-2020, 09:55 PM
I'm assuming it's to do with sight lines. If you have safe standing in the corner, then less people's view of the pitch is impacted by a group standing for 90 minutes

Makes sense

ABZHFC
19-01-2020, 10:00 PM
Makes sense

Personally, I support it being 44/45. Much easier to generate atmosphere in the part of the ground that has the most fans wanting to stand and sing for 90 minutes anyway. Hope this works out! :flag:

LaMotta
19-01-2020, 10:16 PM
What’s the reason for it having to be in a corner? Section 20 would be the ideal position for this so that it can expand out to the sides. Family section in the main stand with best access to players as they warm up pre/during match. Positive steps however that the club are entertaining the possibility

:agree:

Out of the options available then section 20 is the clear winner. It is the one area that will clearly be visible on TV, which is vital if we're going to do it IMO.

GreenCastle
19-01-2020, 10:20 PM
Keep it away from the East Stand.

Needs to be behind the goals in the centre of FF Lower.

The FF empty seats look has been going on too long.

Safe standing for middle 3 sections as a minimum.

Family section moved to south lower for Cat B games and other parts of stadium for Cat A if kids do go to these games.

Even Aberdeen managed to get it right yesterday with flags and standing behind goal.

I voted section 20 but don’t think it’s the way forward - right behind goals would help the club / team.

we are hibs
19-01-2020, 10:25 PM
Keep it away from the East Stand.

Needs to be behind the goals in the centre of FF Lower.

The FF empty seats look has been going on too long.

Safe standing for middle 3 sections as a minimum.

Family section moved to south lower for Cat B games and other parts of stadium for Cat A if kids do go to these games.

Even Aberdeen managed to get it right yesterday with flags and standing behind goal.

I voted section 20 but don’t think it’s the way forward - right behind goals would help the club / team.

Why do you think it should be kept away from the East stand?

GreenCastle
19-01-2020, 10:28 PM
Why do you think it should be kept away from the East stand?

East creates its own atmosphere and most folk stand in certain sections anyway.

FF is half full most weeks and looks crap on TV. Would so much better with colour / noise and fans creating more atmosphere.

Hibeesmad
19-01-2020, 10:30 PM
Torn between section 44 and 20.

we are hibs
19-01-2020, 10:36 PM
East creates its own atmosphere and most folk stand in certain sections anyway.

FF is half full most weeks and looks crap on TV. Would so much better with colour / noise and fans creating more atmosphere.

Fair enough. Im not against it being in the famous 5 lower but history tells us from the middle of the east towards the south stand has always been king for atmosphere and i dont envisage that ever changing. I can see why the club would be hesitant to have it there though with recent incidents eminating from that part of the ground. The current location isnt great though. I can only ever hear the drum and im in section 38.

wookie70
19-01-2020, 10:45 PM
Surely the survey, if for the wider fan base, should include a question about whether we want a safe standing area in the first place.

For me I would be against it if it cost anything that didn't have a chance of being recoupeded with extra attendance. Perhaps a question about would you buy a season ticket rather than move one would be better. I'd also be against it if fans were displaced without a suitable replacement seat. With so many season tickets sold moving fans is problematic.

GreenCastle
19-01-2020, 11:00 PM
Fair enough. Im not against it being in the famous 5 lower but history tells us from the middle of the east towards the south stand has always been king for atmosphere and i dont envisage that ever changing. I can see why the club would be hesitant to have it there though with recent incidents eminating from that part of the ground. The current location isnt great though. I can only ever hear the drum and im in section 38.

Fair play. Bottom line is like you said East will be East.

Let’s try expand the atmosphere and FF lower needs sorted - empty seats and lack of atmosphere needs addressed.

I’m closer to drum than you in east and it’s a struggle to hear sound at time - compare to even a small amount of Away fans in lower and change is needed.

CMurdoch
19-01-2020, 11:04 PM
As the purpose is to make ER intimidating for away teams/fans then it would be best close to the away fans, so sections 44/45. Would imagine section 43 would join in with the singing and it would hopefully then spread.


Personally, I support it being 44/45. Much easier to generate atmosphere in the part of the ground that has the most fans wanting to stand and sing for 90 minutes anyway. Hope this works out! :flag:


Torn between section 44 and 20.

Let's get real.
Any Safe Standing area won't be in the East.

By definition such an area would attract a lot of good guys but it will also attract 95% of the ****s.
No way will the club want spam the bams next to the away support.
As much chance of that happening as getting a pint in the East.

NadeAteMyLunch!
19-01-2020, 11:07 PM
There are a few very simple reasons that every single big team with a large support around the world have their loud singing section directly behind the goals. Liverpool, Utd, Barca, Madrid, Dortmund, Bayern etc etc. Lower FF is the only place this should be considered for. Brutal seeing it barely half full as we shoot towards it second half every home game. Aberdeen’s stand behind the goals is a shambles usually, bit like our FF. They tried something new yesterday and it was full with the folk that usually sit near the away fans. Looked a hundred times better.

Fair play on trying to make progress with this btw [emoji1360]

HendoDelivered
19-01-2020, 11:08 PM
Back to the East for me. Never been the same since...

CMurdoch
19-01-2020, 11:15 PM
As the purpose is to make ER intimidating for away teams/fans then it would be best close to the away fans, so sections 44/45. Would imagine section 43 would join in with the singing and it would hopefully then spread.

Dempster to 007 - why would you like the safe standing area in section 44/45

007 to Dempster - as the purpose is to make ER intimidating for away teams/fans then it would be best close to the away fans

Dempster - security, get this spaceman out of here

LaMotta
19-01-2020, 11:27 PM
There are a few very simple reasons that every single big team with a large support around the world have their loud singing section directly behind the goals. Liverpool, Utd, Barca, Madrid, Dortmund, Bayern etc etc. Lower FF is the only place this should be considered for. Brutal seeing it barely half full as we shoot towards it second half every home game. Aberdeen’s stand behind the goals is a shambles usually, bit like our FF. They tried something new yesterday and it was full with the folk that usually sit near the away fans. Looked a hundred times better.

Fair play on trying to make progress with this btw [emoji1360]

:agree::agree::agree:

RyeSloan
19-01-2020, 11:37 PM
Back to the East for me. Never been the same since...

Well said.

Who cares if other teams have theirs behind the goals. The East is where the singing comes from at ER so having a singing section anywhere else doesn’t make any sense for us.

The last season before the signing section moved was cracking at ER for atmosphere and I’d love to have them back in the East.

oldbutdim
19-01-2020, 11:41 PM
As long as it's not in front of my seat I'm not bothered.

I'm even less bothered about what it looks like to TV viewers.

LaMotta
20-01-2020, 12:36 AM
As long as it's not in front of my seat I'm not bothered.

I'm even less bothered about what it looks like to TV viewers.

Short sighted and I'm amazed that some people dont realise the importance of this.

660
20-01-2020, 01:04 AM
As long as it's not in front of my seat I'm not bothered.

I'm even less bothered about what it looks like to TV viewers.

Thanks for this. Stick to bowls

NAE NOOKIE
20-01-2020, 01:41 AM
We have put together a very short survey as we work with the club to make safe standing at Easter Road a possibility. All responses are appreciated:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/3FQ2JGK

It would help if the link worked on my laptop :confused:

NAE NOOKIE
20-01-2020, 01:46 AM
OK done now. Its a start, but it should be the whole of the FF lower .. I'm convinced you would fill it for big games and get between 1000 to 1500 fans in it for bog standard league games, provided there were no allocated seats ... IE season tickets and walk up tickets would simply say FF lower.

blackpoolhibs
20-01-2020, 06:22 AM
Didnt bother voting, as FF middle is not an option.

Since452
20-01-2020, 06:23 AM
Shame no option for middle of FF lower but voted 20

lyonhibs
20-01-2020, 06:50 AM
Folk getting so bothered about "what it looks like on the telly" are, IMO, wanting safe standing for the wrong reasons, as if it's a pissing contest with other clubs to see who can look the best on telly.

Safe standing, and its proponents, are newcomers to a world of currently fully seated stadia with long term season ticket holders in all 3 stands and the idea that loads of them should be told to like it or lump it is hilarious and does safe standing no favours.
Should start wherever it will have the least impact on existing ST holders then grow from there if it's a success.

oldbutdim
20-01-2020, 08:21 AM
Folk getting so bothered about "what it looks like on the telly" are, IMO, wanting safe standing for the wrong reasons, as if it's a pissing contest with other clubs to see who can look the best on telly.

Safe standing, and its proponents, are newcomers to a world of currently fully seated stadia with long term season ticket holders in all 3 stands and the idea that loads of them should be told to like it or lump it is hilarious and does safe standing no favours.
Should start wherever it will have the least impact on existing ST holders then grow from there if it's a success.

Spot on.

SquashedFrogg
20-01-2020, 08:44 AM
Folk getting so bothered about "what it looks like on the telly" are, IMO, wanting safe standing for the wrong reasons, as if it's a pissing contest with other clubs to see who can look the best on telly.

Safe standing, and its proponents, are newcomers to a world of currently fully seated stadia with long term season ticket holders in all 3 stands and the idea that loads of them should be told to like it or lump it is hilarious and does safe standing no favours.
Should start wherever it will have the least impact on existing ST holders then grow from there if it's a success.

Great point.

GreenCastle
20-01-2020, 09:12 AM
Folk getting so bothered about "what it looks like on the telly" are, IMO, wanting safe standing for the wrong reasons, as if it's a pissing contest with other clubs to see who can look the best on telly.

Safe standing, and its proponents, are newcomers to a world of currently fully seated stadia with long term season ticket holders in all 3 stands and the idea that loads of them should be told to like it or lump it is hilarious and does safe standing no favours.
Should start wherever it will have the least impact on existing ST holders then grow from there if it's a success.

Disagree.

Scottish football is struggling - clubs should be doing everything possible to bring in new fans as we lose fans to other clubs around the world.

Watching highlights of half empty / fully empty stands isn’t a product fans want to support or sponsors want to get behind. The improvement of fans groups in last few years has improved the atmosphere at Scottish games - compare to the half and half scarves in England for example.

Judging by the ST holders in FF lower - many pick and choose games or just buy a ticket and not turn up. If FF lower was full every game this wouldn’t be an issue. It’s often half empty so surely a move to South lower would make sense ?

Hibs fans on 4 sides of the stadium - surely that’s what we are also striving for ?

jacomo
20-01-2020, 09:17 AM
Id like it to be bang centre of behind the goals tbh. But it's a start


:agree:

Standing behind the goals.

Family section in the West Stand.

Signing section in the East.

Sorted.

Keith_M
20-01-2020, 09:21 AM
I'm assuming it's to do with sight lines. If you have safe standing in the corner, then less people's view of the pitch is impacted by a group standing for 90 minutes


Sounds like a good reason and definitely behind this

Diclonius
20-01-2020, 09:24 AM
You shoud have included an "are you in favour of safe standing" question as the survey presumes that people in favour. I imagine the vast majority of us are but it would have been good to have something to back that up.

Keith_M
20-01-2020, 09:25 AM
Folk getting so bothered about "what it looks like on the telly" are, IMO, wanting safe standing for the wrong reasons, as if it's a pissing contest with other clubs to see who can look the best on telly.




:agree:


I'm glad the club consider what ALL fans want and not just a small group trying to outdo their rivals.

Keith_M
20-01-2020, 09:27 AM
Didnt bother voting, as FF middle is not an option.


Would you like a tissue?

we are hibs
20-01-2020, 09:35 AM
Folk getting so bothered about "what it looks like on the telly" are, IMO, wanting safe standing for the wrong reasons, as if it's a pissing contest with other clubs to see who can look the best on telly.

Safe standing, and its proponents, are newcomers to a world of currently fully seated stadia with long term season ticket holders in all 3 stands and the idea that loads of them should be told to like it or lump it is hilarious and does safe standing no favours.
Should start wherever it will have the least impact on existing ST holders then grow from there if it's a success.

Where it would least impact season ticket holders is where it currently is and where it currently is isnt working. Then youre probably looking at section 45/37 which are quite narrow sections at the end of the east.

LaMotta
20-01-2020, 09:45 AM
Folk getting so bothered about "what it looks like on the telly" are, IMO, wanting safe standing for the wrong reasons, as if it's a pissing contest with other clubs to see who can look the best on telly.

Safe standing, and its proponents, are newcomers to a world of currently fully seated stadia with long term season ticket holders in all 3 stands and the idea that loads of them should be told to like it or lump it is hilarious and does safe standing no favours.
Should start wherever it will have the least impact on existing ST holders then grow from there if it's a success.

Football IS one massive pissing contest and about trying to outdo your rivals. A noisy full singing section visible on TV would help improve the image of the club to prospective signing targets, sponsors, fans, tv deals etc...no doubt about that.

Barry Hearn gets it I'm amazed so many still dont.

lyonhibs
20-01-2020, 09:49 AM
Disagree.

Scottish football is struggling - clubs should be doing everything possible to bring in new fans as we lose fans to other clubs around the world.

Watching highlights of half empty / fully empty stands isn’t a product fans want to support or sponsors want to get behind. The improvement of fans groups in last few years has improved the atmosphere at Scottish games - compare to the half and half scarves in England for example.

Judging by the ST holders in FF lower - many pick and choose games or just buy a ticket and not turn up. If FF lower was full every game this wouldn’t be an issue. It’s often half empty so surely a move to South lower would make sense ?

Hibs fans on 4 sides of the stadium - surely that’s what we are also striving for ?

I must be missing something - you think clubs like Hibs gain or lose new fans based on what the crowd "looks like" on the meagre 5 minute weekly highlights clip we get?

lyonhibs
20-01-2020, 09:53 AM
Where it would least impact season ticket holders is where it currently is and where it currently is isnt working. Then youre probably looking at section 45/37 which are quite narrow sections at the end of the east.

We have an official "safe standing" section at ER already? Must have missed that press release :rolleyes:.

I assume what's being discussed in this thread is doing it properly, with rail seating etc, not just an area where it's understood that standing and singing is encouraged/tolerated (in the case of standing which technically isn't allowed but we all know that doesn't happen in reality thankfully).

hibbyfraelibby
20-01-2020, 09:55 AM
As I understand it, looking at the seats used in the East stand for the disabled supporters, there would still be a seat for every supporter which would allow them to see over someone choosing to stand in front of them. Just fit out all the lower sections through out the stadium ( except South)

Personally I prefer the East stand for the singing section but from an historican sense maybe we should re-create the old Shed atmosphere in the lower North, shift the "families" to ordinary seating in the South for all non Ugly Sister and noisy neighbour games (with a guaranteed seat elsewhere for those games).

As for what it looks like on TV I dont care. Its what it looks and sounds like in ER that matters

GreenCastle
20-01-2020, 09:55 AM
I must be missing something - you think clubs like Hibs gain or lose new fans based on what the crowd "looks like" on the meagre 5 minute weekly highlights clip we get?

Minimal but is it attractive for sponsors (something we struggle with as it is) ?

It’s not just Hibs but watching the Scottish highlights in the top league shows plenty empty seats behind the goals in lots of stadia.

Really doesn’t look a great product for anyone looking in.

What I care about most is Hibs winning games and match day experience- for both of those to improve fans firstly behind the goal would help. No coincidence the best away atmosphere is usually Tynie away with a full away end behind the goals.

GreenCastle
20-01-2020, 09:58 AM
We have an official "safe standing" section at ER already? Must have missed that press release :rolleyes:.

I assume what's being discussed in this thread is doing it properly, with rail seating etc, not just an area where it's understood that standing and singing is encouraged/tolerated (in the case of standing which technically isn't allowed but we all know that doesn't happen in reality thankfully).

Why waste money and put in East where fans stand already ?

If you are going to spend £ on it - put it behind goals and leave the East.

Only should ever be considered in front rows of the east as wouldn’t block any views.

But bigger picture is an end where fans can go and support / hang banners / do more fantastic displays we have witnessed over the last few years.

Keeping the FF lower as it is - isn’t doing anything for the players or atmosphere.

blackpoolhibs
20-01-2020, 10:38 AM
Would you like a tissue?

Good one, that has cut me right to the bone, not sure if i can make it now to the airport for my plane to the sunshine.

Brightside
20-01-2020, 10:49 AM
Surely it will be East 37? They wont be allowed in the family area FF Lower. and the police wont allow it next to oppo fans.

jacomo
20-01-2020, 10:55 AM
Football IS one massive pissing contest and about trying to outdo your rivals. A noisy full singing section visible on TV would help improve the image of the club to prospective signing targets, sponsors, fans, tv deals etc...no doubt about that.

Barry Hearn gets it I'm amazed so many still dont.


:agree:

And, of course, also make the matchday experience at ER more enjoyable for all.

SquashedFrogg
20-01-2020, 11:33 AM
:agree:

And, of course, also make the matchday experience at ER more enjoyable for all.

How will fans standing in the FFL make a better matchday experience for all?

What happens when we play a Hamilton/St Mirren midweek and it's half full? Will it not look silly on TV?

NadeAteMyLunch!
20-01-2020, 11:42 AM
Incredibly short sighted by folk saying it doesn’t matter what it looks like on TV imo. We have a huge number of armchair fans who we could do with enticing along, particularly young fans who are constantly being lured away by the excitement of English games on TV. Of course a great atmosphere, lots of noise and colour is going to help. The FF lower is a miserable sight every week. I had a season ticket in there for years growing up and loved it but it’s not currently working.
Sure the players would prefer it as they chase a goal down that end second half as well

SChibs
20-01-2020, 12:10 PM
If all the folk moaning about the East being poor for atmosphere since 1875 left got together and made an effort to make some noise the east would be back to how it was. Better still if they got together and joined the singing section it would continue to grow and make progress.

SChibs
20-01-2020, 12:11 PM
How will fans standing in the FFL make a better matchday experience for all?

What happens when we play a Hamilton/St Mirren midweek and it's half full? Will it not look silly on TV?

Nah cause those games arent shown on tv

jakedance
20-01-2020, 12:35 PM
I’ll fill in the survey. Best option is the corner between the FF and East stands being developed to hold a standing area Similar design to Ibrox away end. No one gets moved and possibly not a huge cost.

Billy Whizz
20-01-2020, 12:42 PM
I went for section 20

TheGreenMan
20-01-2020, 12:47 PM
If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got.

Time to mix it up a bit and change to attempt to progress.

Should be FF Lower central, behind the goals to start with and hope it grows to the whole of the FF lower.

People are right about it being a product and with the mix of the colour and atmosphere it would hopefully generate as well as the likes of the banners and displays we've seen at recent big games then the Hibs marketing team can use snippets for constant social media updates and posts to engage with fans, especially younger ones. You see the amount of people filming the march to Tynecastle every time and its growing - people like being associated with this kind of thing, it looks fun. That verses the current FF Lower situation? No contest.

Any season ticket holders can surely relocate, its not like were short of decent seats available - most with better views. Or move upper tier if still prefer to be behind the goals

HibbiesandtheBaddies
20-01-2020, 12:54 PM
Id like it to be bang centre of behind the goals tbh. But it's a start


:agree:

HibbiesandtheBaddies
20-01-2020, 01:00 PM
Keep it away from the East Stand.

Needs to be behind the goals in the centre of FF Lower.

The FF empty seats look has been going on too long.

Safe standing for middle 3 sections as a minimum.

Family section moved to south lower for Cat B games and other parts of stadium for Cat A if kids do go to these games.

Even Aberdeen managed to get it right yesterday with flags and standing behind goal.

I voted section 20 but don’t think it’s the way forward - right behind goals would help the club / team.


Feels like the FF Lower is at a shallower angle than the East stand, so probably safer and easier to appease Health & Safety.

SquashedFrogg
20-01-2020, 01:05 PM
Nah cause those games arent shown on tv

Ah, so you're saying that it's only live games on TV that we're bothered about? Not highlight packages of non-live games?

That's ok then because I'd doubt it would look full on those occasions.

Apologies. My mistake.

jacomo
20-01-2020, 01:06 PM
How will fans standing in the FFL make a better matchday experience for all?

What happens when we play a Hamilton/St Mirren midweek and it's half full? Will it not look silly on TV?


Two ways I think:
1. Giving fans a broader choice means everyone is better catered for. Some fans want seats for them and their kids and a firmer stance taken against abusive language... that is their right and could be accommodated in the West. Some want to stand and shout and, perhaps, a more lenient attitude adopted by stewards... and we can cater for that too.
2. A standing section would create a noisier more vibrant ER, improving the atmosphere for all. You don’t have to join in if you don’t want to.

lyonhibs
20-01-2020, 01:07 PM
If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got.

Time to mix it up a bit and change to attempt to progress.

Should be FF Lower central, behind the goals to start with and hope it grows to the whole of the FF lower.

People are right about it being a product and with the mix of the colour and atmosphere it would hopefully generate as well as the likes of the banners and displays we've seen at recent big games then the Hibs marketing team can use snippets for constant social media updates and posts to engage with fans, especially younger ones. You see the amount of people filming the march to Tynecastle every time and its growing - people like being associated with this kind of thing, it looks fun. That verses the current FF Lower situation? No contest.

Any season ticket holders can surely relocate, its not like were short of decent seats available - most with better views. Or move upper tier if still prefer to be behind the goals

The highlighted phrase shows, I suspect, a fundamental lack of understanding on what some people hold dear about their season ticket seat. I'd love to see the FF fuller with colour etc etc but it must be done in a sensible and sensitive fashion to those who have ST in there and may have done so for 20+ years. It would need to be a bottom up consultation before anything was made concrete, not something that is imposed from the top down.

Also, the club should focus its energies and money on putting a regularly successful winning team out on the park first and foremost. Watch the stadium fill up without the need for flags, tifos and a singing section if they manage that.

lyonhibs
20-01-2020, 01:08 PM
Ah, so you're saying that it's only live games on TV that we're bothered about? Not highlight packages of non-live games?

That's ok then because I'd doubt it would look full on those occasions.

Apologies. My mistake.

Must keep up with the Jones' you know :agree::agree::greengrin

ABZHFC
20-01-2020, 01:55 PM
Personally, the only way I'd support the Famous Five section 20 becoming safe standing is if there was an explicit agreement that the rest of the lower tier could be eventually turned into safe standing too, and it was no longer the family stand.

People citing the Merkland Road end at Aberdeen are absolutely correct, it was fantastic on the weekend, and a sign of what can be done with the correct organisation. But it's important to note that on a usual match day, that is a family stand. They didn't compromise by saying "ok, half of it will be standing and singing for 90 minutes, the other half will be families as usual", they politely asked all usual ST holders in that stand to move elsewhere for one game only.

This is why we need to think big as a club, there's no good trying to start a section in just one corner and have the other 4 blocks half-filled with families. If it's to happen in the Famous Five lower, there has to be a radical change to how our ground is laid out (something I fully support, by the way). If not, then the south end of the East Stand will have to do, and I believe there's a lot of potential for that. I disagree with the idea that the singing in the East takes care of itself, it has been poor for most games over the past few seasons, in my opinion.

HibeeHibernian4
20-01-2020, 02:01 PM
Safe standing, and its proponents, are newcomers to a world of currently fully seated stadia with long term season ticket holders in all 3 stands and the idea that loads of them should be told to like it or lump it is hilarious and does safe standing no favours.
Should start wherever it will have the least impact on existing ST holders then grow from there if it's a success.

The entire point is that it should have an impact on existing season ticket holders, because they might now sit on their hands in a ground that has a bit of atmosphere, which motivates the team, which might improve results, which might make said season ticket holders happier.

lyonhibs
20-01-2020, 02:08 PM
The entire point is that it should have an impact on existing season ticket holders, because they might now sit on their hands in a ground that has a bit of atmosphere, which motivates the team, which might improve results, which might make said season ticket holders happier.

I meant actual relocation impact should be minimised. As in "time for you to shove off elsewhere if you don't want to be part of the safe standing revolution that we've decided to implement in your section. Cheers for having that same season ticket for the past 15 years but time for you to naff off to some other part of the stadium"

BILLYHIBS
20-01-2020, 02:09 PM
Singing Section FFL pour moi!

Will look barry on TV and add much needed atmosphere to the overall match day experience a throw back to the old Cow Shed days when the HIBS fans just sucked the ball into the net at the downhill end

You know it makes sense :greengrin

Keith_M
20-01-2020, 02:12 PM
I must be missing something - you think clubs like Hibs gain or lose new fans based on what the crowd "looks like" on the meagre 5 minute weekly highlights clip we get?


I don't think they really believe that, it's more of a stock answer to those that come up with an alternative viewpoint.

I was at Tannadice yesterday and saw some people struggling to last the 90 minutes, because everybody in front of them was standing. A lot of these people were older and/or infirm.

Maybe the people in front of them that insisted on standing for 90 minutes think those people, that have supported the club for generations, should just 'stick to the bowls'

:rolleyes:

Keith_M
20-01-2020, 02:16 PM
Feels like the FF Lower is at a shallower angle than the East stand, so probably safer and easier to appease Health & Safety.


It is, and it's safer for young kids.

The only equivalent they could be moved to is the West Lower.

If anybody thinks that should happen, then I'd suggest having a vote of all the people that currently have Season Tickets in both the FF Lower and the parts of the West Lower that would have to be moved to accommodate a Singing Section in the whole of the FF Lower.

Anthony Soprano
20-01-2020, 02:21 PM
East creates its own atmosphere and most folk stand in certain sections anyway.

FF is half full most weeks and looks crap on TV. Would so much better with colour / noise and fans creating more atmosphere.

Having it in the East would make more sense, people around about it in the east are more likely to join in than they are in FF.

Right next to the away fans also, making sure they can hear us.

No idea what the current singing section sounds like in the away end but i sit in the east and can barely hear it.

Keith_M
20-01-2020, 02:27 PM
Having it in the East would make more sense, people around about it in the east are more likely to join in than they are in FF.

Right next to the away fans also, making sure they can hear us.

No idea what the current singing section sounds like in the away end but i sit in the east and can barely hear it.


Section 44/45 is one of the options and that's the one I voted for.

I hope they get it up and running, as I'd love to see the two groups that sing the most finally in one part of the ground.

Anthony Soprano
20-01-2020, 02:30 PM
Section 44/45 is one of the options and that's the one I voted for.

I hope they get it up and running, as I'd love to see the two groups that sing the most finally in one part of the ground.

Likewise :agree:

GreenCastle
20-01-2020, 02:53 PM
Having it in the East would make more sense, people around about it in the east are more likely to join in than they are in FF.

Right next to the away fans also, making sure they can hear us.

No idea what the current singing section sounds like in the away end but i sit in the east and can barely hear it.

It wouldn’t make sense at all for the East.

As I’ve said above - fans already stand there and create an atmosphere.

Why double up when you can create something fresh which helps the team and match day experience.

Even a bunch of guys in hospitality created a good atmosphere a while back in west upper.

Centrally behind the goal is where most of the best away sections around the world are based.

Not tucked away and not mixed with a family section which is half empty.

Families are the future supporters but plenty of seats in south lower / west lower if people wanted to move or even make FF unreserved and reduce prices to entice fans back.

oldbutdim
20-01-2020, 02:59 PM
Thanks for this. Stick to bowls

Ah!

Not allowed an opinion I see, or is there some other reason for your rude and rather dimwitted response?

Since90+2
20-01-2020, 03:01 PM
Personally, the only way I'd support the Famous Five section 20 becoming safe standing is if there was an explicit agreement that the rest of the lower tier could be eventually turned into safe standing too, and it was no longer the family stand.

People citing the Merkland Road end at Aberdeen are absolutely correct, it was fantastic on the weekend, and a sign of what can be done with the correct organisation. But it's important to note that on a usual match day, that is a family stand. They didn't compromise by saying "ok, half of it will be standing and singing for 90 minutes, the other half will be families as usual", they politely asked all usual ST holders in that stand to move elsewhere for one game only.

This is why we need to think big as a club, there's no good trying to start a section in just one corner and have the other 4 blocks half-filled with families. If it's to happen in the Famous Five lower, there has to be a radical change to how our ground is laid out (something I fully support, by the way). If not, then the south end of the East Stand will have to do, and I believe there's a lot of potential for that. I disagree with the idea that the singing in the East takes care of itself, it has been poor for most games over the past few seasons, in my opinion.

Good post. Agree with most of this .

Anthony Soprano
20-01-2020, 03:04 PM
It wouldn’t make sense at all for the East.

As I’ve said above - fans already stand there and create an atmosphere.

Why double up when you can create something fresh which helps the team and match day experience.

Even a bunch of guys in hospitality created a good atmosphere a while back in west upper.

Centrally behind the goal is where most of the best away sections around the world are based.

Not tucked away and not mixed with a family section which is half empty.

Families are the future supporters but plenty of seats in south lower / west lower if people wanted to move or even make FF unreserved and reduce prices to entice fans back.


The atmosphere in the East is nowhere near as good as it used to be, the current singing section is very quiet tucked away in the FF.

As I said previously, you would get a lot more folk joining in the east than in the FF where we struggle for atmosphere

A lot closer to the away fans

Makes perfect sense to me

jgl07
20-01-2020, 03:29 PM
All rather premature.

As far as I am aware, standing is not even allowed as yet.

Moving the whole of the Family Section from the FF Lower is going to cause a lot of disruption, not just from those who are moved out of FF Lower but all those shifted out of the West Lower to accommodate them.

It really annoys supporters to be forced out of seats. Especially if there is no comparable seating available. Shifting near to 2,000 season tickets is no simple task. The only gaps availbe are likely to be in the FF Upper or the end of the East Stand. I can't imagine many West Stand season ticket holders being delighted to be moved to the East Stand or the FF Upper.

Is there much evidence that the FF Lower could be filled by those wanting to stand. It's an awful lot of people to find. None of the surveys are asking the right questions.

I would agree that starting from scratch, the FF Lower is the best place. And the Family Section does need sorting out given that vast majority of the FF Lower is sold for season tickets yet it rarely seems to be more than half-full most matches.

I suspect that a lot of child season tickets sold are 'phantom' ones that can be upgraded to adult for the big matches. This issue needs to be sorted out before anything alse happens. That may enable the Family Section to be 'downsized' to, say, half the FF Lower.

GreenCastle
20-01-2020, 03:38 PM
All rather premature.

As far as I am aware, standing is not even allowed as yet.

Moving the whole of the Family Section from the FF Lower is going to cause a lot of disruption, not just from those who are moved out of FF Lower but all those shifted out of the West Lower to accommodate them.

It really annoys supporters to be forced out of seats. Especially if there is no comparable seating available. Shifting near to 2,000 season tickets is no simple task. The only gaps availbe are likely to be in the FF Upper or the end of the East Stand. I can't imagine many West Stand season ticket holders being delighted to be moved to the East Stand or the FF Upper.

Is there much evidence that the FF Lower could be filled by those wanting to stand. It's an awful lot of people to find. None of the surveys are asking the right questions.

I would agree that starting from scratch, the FF Lower is the best place. And the Family Section does need sorting out given that vast majority of the FF Lower is sold for season tickets yet it rarely seems to be more than half-full most matches.

I suspect that a lot of child season tickets sold are 'phantom' ones that can be upgraded to adult for the big matches. This issue needs to be sorted out before anything alse happens. That may enable the Family Section to be 'downsized' to, say, half the FF Lower.

Family section to South ?

Could easily fit in for Cat B games and then first option of seats for Cat A games.

Quite simple solution.

Put away fans in south upper corner or split the stand.

Onceinawhile
20-01-2020, 03:41 PM
Family section to South ?

Could easily fit in for Cat B games and then first option of seats for Cat A games.

Quite simple solution.

Put away fans in south upper corner or split the stand.

It's not really though.

Say there's a family group of 5 or 6 who have STs in the FFL. They get shunted to the South lower for Category B games.

Where do you find them 5 or 6 seats together for the category A game?

FWIW, I would trial moving the Singing section down to the FFL section closest to the east and redistributing the season ticket holders from that section into the remaining FFL seats if possible. Then if the trial goes well and there is demand for it, give them the next section along as well.

There'll be plenty young kids in there who would be happy to join in with the signing section.

SquashedFrogg
20-01-2020, 03:59 PM
Two ways I think:
1. Giving fans a broader choice means everyone is better catered for. Some fans want seats for them and their kids and a firmer stance taken against abusive language... that is their right and could be accommodated in the West. Some want to stand and shout and, perhaps, a more lenient attitude adopted by stewards... and we can cater for that too.
2. A standing section would create a noisier more vibrant ER, improving the atmosphere for all. You don’t have to join in if you don’t want to.

I get this. It was more around why the FFL specically in response to the post.

I'll continue to stand up in the East anyway so not overly fussed where it ends up. Was just curious why the FFL would make my experience in the East better.

All cool.

SquashedFrogg
20-01-2020, 04:02 PM
Must keep up with the Jones' you know :agree::agree::greengrin

If we defended better and created less chances at that end, maybe the cameras wouldn't show that stand as much?

we are hibs
20-01-2020, 04:27 PM
All rather premature.

As far as I am aware, standing is not even allowed as yet.

Moving the whole of the Family Section from the FF Lower is going to cause a lot of disruption, not just from those who are moved out of FF Lower but all those shifted out of the West Lower to accommodate them.

It really annoys supporters to be forced out of seats. Especially if there is no comparable seating available. Shifting near to 2,000 season tickets is no simple task. The only gaps availbe are likely to be in the FF Upper or the end of the East Stand. I can't imagine many West Stand season ticket holders being delighted to be moved to the East Stand or the FF Upper.

Is there much evidence that the FF Lower could be filled by those wanting to stand. It's an awful lot of people to find. None of the surveys are asking the right questions.

I would agree that starting from scratch, the FF Lower is the best place. And the Family Section does need sorting out given that vast majority of the FF Lower is sold for season tickets yet it rarely seems to be more than half-full most matches.

I suspect that a lot of child season tickets sold are 'phantom' ones that can be upgraded to adult for the big matches. This issue needs to be sorted out before anything alse happens. That may enable the Family Section to be 'downsized' to, say, half the FF Lower.

Both killie and celtic have implemented safe standing already.

ABZHFC
20-01-2020, 04:47 PM
Two ways I think:
1. Giving fans a broader choice means everyone is better catered for. Some fans want seats for them and their kids and a firmer stance taken against abusive language... that is their right and could be accommodated in the West. Some want to stand and shout and, perhaps, a more lenient attitude adopted by stewards... and we can cater for that too.
2. A standing section would create a noisier more vibrant ER, improving the atmosphere for all. You don’t have to join in if you don’t want to.

Great post. This is the crux of it, for me.

I totally agree that there should be a family section at Easter Road, where parents who want to bring young kids along (and not hear abuse, swearing etc) can sit without bother. But that should never come at the expense of what some other fans want, which is the chance to stand and sing for 90 minutes, make an atmosphere, have a drink before and after, and essentially let loose after a working week.

I don't see any reason why the two can't both exist happily in the same ground, when you see clubs in Europe, it is traditional that they have one end behind a goal for away fans, the other for their ultras and then two on the side for those who want to sit with a good view, and choose not to sing as much.

It shouldn't be rocket science, which is why the tiny hills that some people in this country seem to be willing to die on in order to stop good atmospheres in our football stadiums coming back baffles me all the more.

lyonhibs
20-01-2020, 05:09 PM
By the way, has it been clarified whether this poll/what the club are seemingly entertaining as a prospect is a) the current group in the FF Upper simply moving section or b) actual safe standing rail seats like the Green Brigade have at CP being installed somewhere ?

McKenzie
20-01-2020, 08:42 PM
By the way, has it been clarified whether this poll/what the club are seemingly entertaining as a prospect is a) the current group in the FF Upper simply moving section or b) actual safe standing rail seats like the Green Brigade have at CP being installed somewhere ?

I’d have guessed a bit of both. The current group would benefit hugely from safe standing with regards to more interest in the standing/singing element. Sure punters would also pay a small premium for the privilege also

jacomo
20-01-2020, 08:47 PM
I get this. It was more around why the FFL specically in response to the post.

I'll continue to stand up in the East anyway so not overly fussed where it ends up. Was just curious why the FFL would make my experience in the East better.

All cool.


Ah, sorry.

The FFL looks great when full of noise and colour imo. Some of the displays in the FFU look good but the noise doesn’t travel so much from there.

I prefer the East too but I think a standing section behind the goals would improve the atmosphere in the whole ground.

wookie70
20-01-2020, 08:51 PM
Incredibly short sighted by folk saying it doesn’t matter what it looks like on TV imo. We have a huge number of armchair fans who we could do with enticing along, particularly young fans who are constantly being lured away by the excitement of English games on TV.

Will they not be standing in their lounge watching the telly.

wookie70
20-01-2020, 09:03 PM
Disagree.

Scottish football is struggling - clubs should be doing everything possible to bring in new fans as we lose fans to other clubs around the world.


I'm sure Scotland has more fans attending games per capita than any other reasonably sized country. That is despite high ticket prices and many stadiums that are crumbling or poor in terms of facilities etc. We also suffer from poor TV deals etc and a governing body who only concern themselves with two teams.

Scottish football may be struggling in many senses but in terms of attendances it is doing amazingly well and for quite a few clubs it is striving. That doesn't even take into account a good number of fans at junior and senior games.

When I stood at ER around the age most of the singing section are I'd often be in crowds of 4 or 5 thousand. I'd argue the teams back then and the standard of football was possibly better than it is now and Scottish football was certainly much better in terms of world football. That is around a third of what our average league attendance is now.

A fan that "supports" from another country is unlikely to have rocked up at ER imo. They are interested more in the glamour than supporting a team. More like a boy band fan imo than a football fan

Scouse Hibee
20-01-2020, 09:21 PM
Disagree.

Scottish football is struggling - clubs should be doing everything possible to bring in new fans as we lose fans to other clubs around the world.

Watching highlights of half empty / fully empty stands isn’t a product fans want to support or sponsors want to get behind. The improvement of fans groups in last few years has improved the atmosphere at Scottish games - compare to the half and half scarves in England for example.

Judging by the ST holders in FF lower - many pick and choose games or just buy a ticket and not turn up. If FF lower was full every game this wouldn’t be an issue. It’s often half empty so surely a move to South lower would make sense ?

Hibs fans on 4 sides of the stadium - surely that’s what we are also striving for ?

When I watch football on the TV I watch the game on the pitch, I have no interest in the crowds in the stands, on the terraces or what ever else happens to be going on including displays.
Also if we must label it can we just call it Standing. I have never heard seating called Safe Seating!

SquashedFrogg
20-01-2020, 10:04 PM
Great post. This is the crux of it, for me.

I totally agree that there should be a family section at Easter Road, where parents who want to bring young kids along (and not hear abuse, swearing etc) can sit without bother. But that should never come at the expense of what some other fans want, which is the chance to stand and sing for 90 minutes, make an atmosphere, have a drink before and after, and essentially let loose after a working week.

I don't see any reason why the two can't both exist happily in the same ground, when you see clubs in Europe, it is traditional that they have one end behind a goal for away fans, the other for their ultras and then two on the side for those who want to sit with a good view, and choose not to sing as much.

It shouldn't be rocket science, which is why the tiny hills that some people in this country seem to be willing to die on in order to stop good atmospheres in our football stadiums coming back baffles me all the more.

So the wants of parents taking younger supporters shouldn't come at the expense of other fans because they want to have a drink and 'let loose'?

Bizarre.

Didn't realise there was a supporter hierarchy.

Peanut Shaz
20-01-2020, 10:10 PM
I meant actual relocation impact should be minimised. As in "time for you to shove off elsewhere if you don't want to be part of the safe standing revolution that we've decided to implement in your section. Cheers for having that same season ticket for the past 15 years but time for you to naff off to some other part of the stadium"

As happened to me and my family when they moved the singing section to the FF Upper!

SquashedFrogg
20-01-2020, 10:14 PM
As happened to me and my family when they moved the singing section to the FF Upper!

They've shifted a few places now. What happens in a couple of seasons from now when they fancy another move?

hibsboy69
20-01-2020, 11:16 PM
They've shifted a few places now. What happens in a couple of seasons from now when they fancy another move?

They've only shifted once I think (from The East S43 to the FF Upper.......I recall this being at the club's request)

When they were in The East they created an amazing atmosphere (along with the rest of the East and then the whole ground joined in)......an atmosphere which was the envy of away fans attending Easter Road.

These young lads with energy, imagination and pride should be encouraged. I believe the majority of fans (who attend the games) would support them moving back to The East :agree:


We Are All Since 1875

:flag:

ABZHFC
20-01-2020, 11:25 PM
So the wants of parents taking younger supporters shouldn't come at the expense of other fans because they want to have a drink and 'let loose'?

Bizarre.

Didn't realise there was a supporter hierarchy.

In the specific terms of creating an atmosphere, there is a supporter hierarchy, and unsurprisingly the singing section (and indeed any other fans who want to stand and sing for 90 minutes) are top of it. That should not be a controversial thing to say, it is just true.

And yes, there has been a real problem with the sanitisation of football grounds in Scotland, largely down to the tireless work of Police Scotland ensuring they justify their annual budget. This has happened with the help of chairmen and women up and down Scotland, but Dempster has been particularly disappointing at times on this issue, especially considering how good she was at helping to accommodate the Motherwell Bois when she was at Fir Park.

Not every stand has to be 'family friendly', it is fine to have one section of the ground where that is the case, but it sucks the atmosphere out of the stadium if you try and make every stand like that. Therefore, we need to talk about radically changing Easter Road's layout, and if moving the family section to another part of the ground in order to accommodate those who will make a great atmosphere is needed, then so should be it.

NAE NOOKIE
21-01-2020, 03:05 AM
Football IS one massive pissing contest and about trying to outdo your rivals. A noisy full singing section visible on TV would help improve the image of the club to prospective signing targets, sponsors, fans, tv deals etc...no doubt about that.

Barry Hearn gets it I'm amazed so many still dont.

Absolutely bang on mate, and it really is quite surprising that the folk who ... A) Run this club ..... and B) Support it, seem so determined to ignore that fact. In entertainment image is absolutely massive, as is audience perception of what they are going to experience, and especially to the audience you are trying to target, there's a multi million pound industry based on it FFS ... Its why for example Bruce Springsteen doesn't go on stage wearing sequins like Liberace did. It's why the darts is now massive, because the audience is fully engaged and not treated like an annoyance for the players like it was in the early days ... folk see it on the telly and want to go along because it looks like fun .... in fact it probably wouldn't be a lie to say the darts is secondary to being part of the crowd for the folk who pay to get in.

Folk who say what the stands at a football ground look and sound like on the telly doesn't matter are absolutely deluding themselves. If you were a neutral with the choice to go to any game in Britain without the standard of football being a factor where would you choose to go based on what you saw on the telly ... Anfield with 10,000 behind the goal making a racket or Easter Road with 700 spattered at one end and no visible or for the most part audible measurable number of fans dedicated to noisily backing their team.

If you were a kid living in Edinburgh and your dad or other relative took you to Easter Road and Tynecastle ... what criteria would influence your eventual decision as to which club to eventually go with? Probably the ground with the best atmosphere ... at the moment there probably isn't much difference between the two .... but looking at Hibs reluctance to create a ( for want of a better word ) Kop end in the FF lower, if I was the owner of Hearts I would be totally busting a gut to turn Tynecastle's Gorgie Road stand into a 3,000 space standing area and encouraging the club's fans to fill it .... knowing that by doing so I would be making Tynecastle a far more attractive proposition to potential new supporters than Easter Road could ever be. Thankfully the folk who actually do run Hearts seem to be as blinkered and un tuned in as the folk running Hibs are.

I saw a wee clip on facebook from Saturday's game of Aberdeen's experimental standing section at the end opposite the Dick Donald stand. They were only playing Dumbarton, but from the wee clip I saw the 2000 or so fans in that stand made a far more impressive noise than anything ER has ever produced at a similar game ... and that from a set of fans who in the past have been criticised by their own club for sitting on their hands.

So basically .... Folk can refuse to countenance a standing section comprising the whole of the FF lower for whatever reasons they see fit. But if one of those reasons is that it wouldn't make a huge difference to the atmosphere at ER and improve the clubs image on TV and elsewhere, while at the same time making Hibs more attractive to new supporters, especially impressionable kids .. they are wrong, its that simple.

bigwheel
21-01-2020, 06:34 AM
I’m relaxed about a safe standing area...be good to give it a go..

Not sure it will make much of a difference tbh...the singing section(s) at our ground..in FF upper and section 43 seems to be standing areas already ...

Out of interest- Why do people feel this will be better ? Seems like the new safe standing areas have a bit more space between fans - might end up slightly less atmospheric...

Since452
21-01-2020, 06:41 AM
I’m relaxed about a safe standing area...be good to give it a go..

Not sure it will make much of a difference tbh...the singing section(s) at our ground..in FF upper and section 43 seems to be standing areas already ...

Out of interest- Why do people feel this will be better ? Seems like the new safe standing areas have a bit more space between fans - might end up slightly less atmospheric...

Ideally for me anyway it would be great to have an as big as possible intimidating standing section right behind the goals with flags, drums etc. It's our stadium so we should be using it to our advantage as much as we can. I don't think any away fans should be behind the goals either. Why should we give an away team the boost of shooting in to their own fans? I don't think we help ourselves at Easter Road

bigwheel
21-01-2020, 06:58 AM
Ideally for me anyway it would be great to have an as big as possible intimidating standing section right behind the goals with flags, drums etc. It's our stadium so we should be using it to our advantage as much as we can. I don't think any away fans should be behind the goals either. Why should we give an away team the boost of shooting in to their own fans? I don't think we help ourselves at Easter Road

I quite like atmosphere at both ends ..don’t mind away support cheering on their teams...I can see your logic for the behind the goals element for us.

JimBHibees
21-01-2020, 07:03 AM
Absolutely bang on mate, and it really is quite surprising that the folk who ... A) Run this club ..... and B) Support it, seem so determined to ignore that fact. In entertainment image is absolutely massive, as is audience perception of what they are going to experience, and especially to the audience you are trying to target, there's a multi million pound industry based on it FFS ... Its why for example Bruce Springsteen doesn't go on stage wearing sequins like Liberace did. It's why the darts is now massive, because the audience is fully engaged and not treated like an annoyance for the players like it was in the early days ... folk see it on the telly and want to go along because it looks like fun .... in fact it probably wouldn't be a lie to say the darts is secondary to being part of the crowd for the folk who pay to get in.

Folk who say what the stands at a football ground look and sound like on the telly doesn't matter are absolutely deluding themselves. If you were a neutral with the choice to go to any game in Britain without the standard of football being a factor where would you choose to go based on what you saw on the telly ... Anfield with 10,000 behind the goal making a racket or Easter Road with 700 spattered at one end and no visible or for the most part audible measurable number of fans dedicated to noisily backing their team.

If you were a kid living in Edinburgh and your dad or other relative took you to Easter Road and Tynecastle ... what criteria would influence your eventual decision as to which club to eventually go with? Probably the ground with the best atmosphere ... at the moment there probably isn't much difference between the two .... but looking at Hibs reluctance to create a ( for want of a better word ) Kop end in the FF lower, if I was the owner of Hearts I would be totally busting a gut to turn Tynecastle's Gorgie Road stand into a 3,000 space standing area and encouraging the club's fans to fill it .... knowing that by doing so I would be making Tynecastle a far more attractive proposition to potential new supporters than Easter Road could ever be. Thankfully the folk who actually do run Hearts seem to be as blinkered and un tuned in as the folk running Hibs are.

I saw a wee clip on facebook from Saturday's game of Aberdeen's experimental standing section at the end opposite the Dick Donald stand. They were only playing Dumbarton, but from the wee clip I saw the 2000 or so fans in that stand made a far more impressive noise than anything ER has ever produced at a similar game ... and that from a set of fans who in the past have been criticised by their own club for sitting on their hands.

So basically .... Folk can refuse to countenance a standing section comprising the whole of the FF lower for whatever reasons they see fit. But if one of those reasons is that it wouldn't make a huge difference to the atmosphere at ER and improve the clubs image on TV and elsewhere, while at the same time making Hibs more attractive to new supporters, especially impressionable kids .. they are wrong, its that simple.

Agree with all of that. Occasionally watch MLS highlights and it seems every team has a singing section mostly right behind one of the goals. Makes for an amazing atmosphere in some of these games and the fans look like they are having a great time and are genuinely engaged. Hopefully this is one of the ideas for improving fans experience Ron is proposing.

RIP
21-01-2020, 10:07 AM
The East Stand has had a Singing Section for over thirty years near the away support. Several hundred supporters who have stood in that area and the last ten years with younger fans moving in.

The group known as Sect43 then Since1875 created a breakaway and moved to the front of 43. After a few jumped the wall the club management gave them a corner high in the FF away from the pitch.

Since they left the top of Section43 the atmosphere at Easter Road has gone from the best in Scotland to one of the poorest. Even small SPL teams away supports outsing us now.

All they (and we) see from the South and S43 is a hundred or so young lads jumping about in the distance banging a drum and waving the odd flag or two. These away supports even sing ‘what the f hell is that’ ridiculing the size of our new ‘singing section’

The exception are the displays which look excellent. I’m also aware that their top corner location limits growth. But some of their older guys have already moved their STs back into S43 this season. So in my opinion, splitting up the singers into two areas has diluted the atmosphere we had developed in seasons 2010 to 2012

I’ve no doubt the young guys up there have a whale of a time. But the vocal support for the club at home games has been the loser. A return of the most vocal and colourful fans to the East would be a massive boost to the club, the players and to our enjoyment at games.

Andy74
21-01-2020, 10:23 AM
The whole empty seats in the FF thing is boring now.

We seem to be really happy seeing the season ticket numbers get higher. People who buy tickets for their kids are part of getting those numbers. Kids don’t always want to go though or parents might not think every game is suitable for them.

It’s important we keep that feed if future fans though, and it’s important that we get the money for those season tickets in.

So what if some seats are sold and not used every game? There are still seats to buy for others that want to come.

As for safe standing. I’m not sure what difference it makes for the added expense. Everyone is free to create atmosphere any time they want currently.

JXM73
21-01-2020, 10:45 AM
FF lower, start in a corner and if proven a success expand it...

Since452
21-01-2020, 11:08 AM
The East Stand has had a Singing Section for over thirty years near the away support. Several hundred supporters who have stood in that area and the last ten years with younger fans moving in.

The group known as Sect43 then Since1875 created a breakaway and moved to the front of 43. After a few jumped the wall the club management gave them a corner high in the FF away from the pitch.

Since they left the top of Section43 the atmosphere at Easter Road has gone from the best in Scotland to one of the poorest. Even small SPL teams away supports outsing us now.

All they (and we) see from the South and S43 is a hundred or so young lads jumping about in the distance banging a drum and waving the odd flag or two. These away supports even sing ‘what the f hell is that’ ridiculing the size of our new ‘singing section’

The exception are the displays which look excellent. I’m also aware that their top corner location limits growth. But some of their older guys have already moved their STs back into S43 this season. So in my opinion, splitting up the singers into two areas has diluted the atmosphere we had developed in seasons 2010 to 2012

I’ve no doubt the young guys up there have a whale of a time. But the vocal support for the club at home games has been the loser. A return of the most vocal and colourful fans to the East would be a massive boost to the club, the players and to our enjoyment at games.

Also from where they are most, if not all the east stand is hidden by the big windbreaker at the side of the stand. Worst place ever for a singing section

SquashedFrogg
21-01-2020, 11:38 AM
In the specific terms of creating an atmosphere, there is a supporter hierarchy, and unsurprisingly the singing section (and indeed any other fans who want to stand and sing for 90 minutes) are top of it. That should not be a controversial thing to say, it is just true.

In terms of all supporters being equal, I'll respectfully disagree with your view.

And yes, there has been a real problem with the sanitisation of football grounds in Scotland, largely down to the tireless work of Police Scotland ensuring they justify their annual budget. This has happened with the help of chairmen and women up and down Scotland, but Dempster has been particularly disappointing at times on this issue, especially considering how good she was at helping to accommodate the Motherwell Bois when she was at Fir Park.

I'll assume our CEO never accommodated the move to the FFU? I'd also add that my experience at ER during her period in charge has been absolutely fine. Not really sure the police part stacks up tbh.

Not every stand has to be 'family friendly', it is fine to have one section of the ground where that is the case, but it sucks the atmosphere out of the stadium if you try and make every stand like that. Therefore, we need to talk about radically changing Easter Road's layout, and if moving the family section to another part of the ground in order to accommodate those who will make a great atmosphere is needed, then so should be it.

Agree - not every stand has to be family friendly. But we currently have one - the FF Lower. Atmosphere was great in the East until a couple of season ago. One of the best/most intimidating for years. Now it's very quiet and more often than not it's the away fans I can hear.

I'm not against change. Nor against improving atmosphere. I guess my overall concern is that we end up looking for a solution to a problem that has been self-inflicted.

SquashedFrogg
21-01-2020, 11:42 AM
The whole empty seats in the FF thing is boring now.

We seem to be really happy seeing the season ticket numbers get higher. People who buy tickets for their kids are part of getting those numbers. Kids don’t always want to go though or parents might not think every game is suitable for them.

It’s important we keep that feed if future fans though, and it’s important that we get the money for those season tickets in.

So what if some seats are sold and not used every game? There are still seats to buy for others that want to come.

As for safe standing. I’m not sure what difference it makes for the added expense. Everyone is free to create atmosphere any time they want currently.

This entirely. I used to take my son to the FFL when he was younger. Great starting point for him before moving up to the East. He didn't go to every match for a number of reasons.

NAE NOOKIE
21-01-2020, 12:01 PM
Agree with all of that. Occasionally watch MLS highlights and it seems every team has a singing section mostly right behind one of the goals. Makes for an amazing atmosphere in some of these games and the fans look like they are having a great time and are genuinely engaged. Hopefully this is one of the ideas for improving fans experience Ron is proposing.

I've cited MLS a few times in these discussions for the reason's you've given here. The efforts of LA FC and Portland Timbers compare to anything in Europe from clubs of a similar size and beats most of them. Practically every new stadium being built is including a standing area behind one goal as a matter of course.

Given the background of our owner he simply must be aware of how stuff works in the USA and the impressive atmosphere generated in a lot of the stadiums, most of which are not much bigger than Easter Road. Nobody, but nobody is more aware of presentation, image and customer requirements than the Americans ..... If they are buying into this it would surprise me greatly if Ron Gordon chose to ignore it.

Edinburgh Green
21-01-2020, 12:11 PM
FF for me, with the view to expand it if a success. The sound will carry a lot better from the lower tier as seen when teams have the small band of singers in the south, then those that have remained in the east will no doubt join in.

NAE NOOKIE
21-01-2020, 12:19 PM
The East Stand has had a Singing Section for over thirty years near the away support. Several hundred supporters who have stood in that area and the last ten years with younger fans moving in.

The group known as Sect43 then Since1875 created a breakaway and moved to the front of 43. After a few jumped the wall the club management gave them a corner high in the FF away from the pitch.

Since they left the top of Section43 the atmosphere at Easter Road has gone from the best in Scotland to one of the poorest. Even small SPL teams away supports outsing us now.

All they (and we) see from the South and S43 is a hundred or so young lads jumping about in the distance banging a drum and waving the odd flag or two. These away supports even sing ‘what the f hell is that’ ridiculing the size of our new ‘singing section’

The exception are the displays which look excellent. I’m also aware that their top corner location limits growth. But some of their older guys have already moved their STs back into S43 this season. So in my opinion, splitting up the singers into two areas has diluted the atmosphere we had developed in seasons 2010 to 2012

I’ve no doubt the young guys up there have a whale of a time. But the vocal support for the club at home games has been the loser. A return of the most vocal and colourful fans to the East would be a massive boost to the club, the players and to our enjoyment at games.

The bottom third of the East would be fine for family tickets and be exactly the same capacity as the FF lower. As for relocating the singers to the east, that was fraught with problems when they were there before. Their own self contained 2000 capacity area in the FF lower would resolve all of that and put them front and centre within the stadium ... IE exactly where they should be.

vahibbie
21-01-2020, 12:43 PM
The survey says "due to the current view of fans the safe standing would have to be in a corner of FF or east stand". Is that the actual view of the fans, seems to me FF lower right behind the goal is most requested spot...if no it should be😁

Billy Whizz
21-01-2020, 01:16 PM
The survey says "due to the current view of fans the safe standing would have to be in a corner of FF or east stand". Is that the actual view of the fans, seems to me FF lower right behind the goal is most requested spot...if no it should be😁

But anyone right or left of them, could have an obstructed view, of the section is standing
Presume that’s why they have to be in the corner

Keith_M
21-01-2020, 02:04 PM
The survey says "due to the current view of fans the safe standing would have to be in a corner of FF or east stand". Is that the actual view of the fans, seems to me FF lower right behind the goal is most requested spot...if no it should be��


It refers to a group of people standing that are physically restricting the view of others.

Imagine you had a group of Fans standing at the front of the middle section in the FF Lower. A lot of people are going to be (rightly) p1ssed off that they now have to stand for a whole game because their view has now been restricted.... or in the case of the kids, they can no longer see parts of the pitch at all.

Some people (the ones proposing locating it there) seem to have no consideration for their fellow Fans.

SChibs
21-01-2020, 07:39 PM
If fans from the East joined the section in the FF it would show the club there is intent from the fans to create a loud vibrant presence behind the goals and they would be more inclined to work with the section on things like safe standing.

It works both ways. Things change so the East doesn't have to be our singing section as most people agree it would be much more effective behind the goal.

Imo the people who want to make some noise should bite the bullet and come over to the F5 and make some noise to show the club what we can do. In the long run it will make attending Easter Road a much better experience and will spur on the team much more than what we have now.

HibeeHibernian4
21-01-2020, 08:01 PM
So the wants of parents taking younger supporters shouldn't come at the expense of other fans because they want to have a drink and 'let loose'?

Bizarre.

Didn't realise there was a supporter hierarchy.

One directly benefits the team more than the other. If you want to call that a hierarchy then that's on you.

HibeeHibernian4
21-01-2020, 08:06 PM
Also, was just watching highlights of our last game against Dundee United at home.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/10720686/hibs-3-0-dundee-utd

Just look at the FF Lower for McGinn's goal. How have we gone from that to a half-empty (if lucky) stand?

I know why, it's because people want to secure their tickets for Hearts in the derby. We can dance around that and pretend it's not the case, but it is. Some supporters are more concerned by Hearts than Hibs, and will happily sacrifice how our ground looks and sounds to get it.

It is they, not the singing section, who should be viewed as the selfish ones. Simple as that.

Keith_M
21-01-2020, 08:08 PM
One directly benefits the team more than the other. If you want to call that a hierarchy then that's on you.


Wow!




I know why, it's because people want to secure their tickets for Hearts in the derby. We can dance around that and pretend it's not the case, but it is. Some supporters are more concerned by Hearts than Hibs, and will happily sacrifice how our ground looks and sounds to get it.

It is they, not the singing section, who should be viewed as the selfish ones. Simple as that.

Keep digging mate

Blaster
21-01-2020, 08:13 PM
Also, was just watching highlights of our last game against Dundee United at home.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/10720686/hibs-3-0-dundee-utd

Just look at the FF Lower for McGinn's goal. How have we gone from that to a half-empty (if lucky) stand?

I know why, it's because people want to secure their tickets for Hearts in the derby. We can dance around that and pretend it's not the case, but it is. Some supporters are more concerned by Hearts than Hibs, and will happily sacrifice how our ground looks and sounds to get it.

It is they, not the singing section, who should be viewed as the selfish ones. Simple as that.

Look at you mr superfan

Such disregard for fellow supporters to appease 250 fans. You’re creating divisions in our fan base with such comments

HibeeHibernian4
21-01-2020, 08:14 PM
Wow!

Go on then.

Outline to me how a family who turns up at Easter Road, sits on their hands for ninety minutes, and possibly even leaves early to beat the traffic, contributes more to the atmosphere (which is directly beneficial to the team) than a group who are singing throughout the game and organising displays etc.

I'm all ears.

My hunch is that you're in the former group, and you believe that the latter are just a bunch of daft wee laddies who will grow out of it, rather than being key to the future of Hibs' brand - if we're going to use such terrible, corporate speak to justify why having an ultras group is good.

HibeeHibernian4
21-01-2020, 08:20 PM
Look at you mr superfan

Such disregard for fellow supporters to appease 250 fans. You’re creating divisions in our fan base with such comments

Not in the singing section so I'm not trying to speak for them, although I think at least a few of them would agree that some Hibs fans appear to be stubborn at best about change.

Please justify the massive difference between the FF Lower's attendance in 2016/17 and 2017/18, without accounting for the fact that some Hibs fans simply only care about watching Hibs when it's against Hearts. The Tynecastle ticket scramble also proves this.

Of course, Dundee United was an exceptionally big attendance, but look at other games such as Falkirk at home:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYzhStcH6VY

Ayr at home in September? Similar story:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyCaKVLkG-4&t

If you are so linear in your thinking that you think them moving would appease 250 fans, rather than significantly improving the atmosphere at Easter Road and making coming along easier to sell to the casual fan, then I'm not sure what to say really.

Andy74
21-01-2020, 08:22 PM
Go on then.

Outline to me how a family who turns up at Easter Road, sits on their hands for ninety minutes, and possibly even leaves early to beat the traffic, contributes more to the atmosphere (which is directly beneficial to the team) than a group who are singing throughout the game and organising displays etc.

I'm all ears.

My hunch is that you're in the former group, and you believe that the latter are just a bunch of daft wee laddies who will grow out of it, rather than being key to the future of Hibs' brand - if we're going to use such terrible, corporate speak to justify why having an ultras group is good.

You’re struggling now.

We need fans in the door to pay for the team. We need that to happen over a long time, with new supporters coming through and making it a habit to watch Hibs.

Atmosphere is part of football but so are all sorts of paying fans.

You’ll also find that most of the families are folk who were making much better atmospheres without any schemes to encourage them a long time before you!

Nothing is stopping those that want to create an atmosphere from doing so.

Attacking families to make some sort of point just doesn’t help your case. In fact it makes you look very ignorant indeed.

I wonder what profile of fan creates the most money for Hibs?

SquashedFrogg
21-01-2020, 08:27 PM
One directly benefits the team more than the other. If you want to call that a hierarchy then that's on you.

By definition you're describing a hierarchy. So technically it's on you I'm afraid.

HibeeHibernian4
21-01-2020, 08:29 PM
You’ll also find that most of the families are folk who were making much better atmospheres without any schemes to encourage them a long time before you!

Perfect, so we agree that unallocated seating (or more specifically terracing) is an absolute priority, and that younger supporters are completely hampered by the sanitisation of modern football through all-seater stadia.

The reason why atmospheres were better back then (and I was there a lot of weeks despite your implication otherwise) is because more people were willing to join in with singing. There is a type of Hibs fan nowadays who seems to have zero interest in this, and indeed views those who do like to sing with some sort of suspicion.


Nothing is stopping those that want to create an atmosphere from doing so.

Apart from:

- being shunted into the corner of the FF Upper to appease stubborn fans
- being harassed and filmed routinely by Police Scotland at away games
- being viewed by a % of the Hibs support as just some guys banging a drum, rather than a key part of the support
- being unable to drink at the ground because of draconian laws that are forty years out of date
- being told that safe standing won't be prioritised over the playing budget, and then pissing away said budget on dross like Vela
- having a safety officer who cannot understand that legality does not equate to morality, and as such seems to defend the ban of pyrotechnics with "but they're illegal!!!", rather than justify why

There will, in the next twenty years or so, be a trend towards improving the atmosphere in Scottish grounds. I'd sure like to think I was on the right side of that movement, rather than working obstinately against it.

Blaster
21-01-2020, 08:32 PM
Not in the singing section so I'm not trying to speak for them, although I think at least a few of them would agree that some Hibs fans appear to be stubborn at best about change.

Please justify the massive difference between the FF Lower's attendance in 2016/17 and 2017/18, without accounting for the fact that some Hibs fans simply only care about watching Hibs when it's against Hearts. The Tynecastle ticket scramble also proves this.

Of course, Dundee United was an exceptionally big attendance, but look at other games such as Falkirk at home:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYzhStcH6VY

Ayr at home in September? Similar story:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyCaKVLkG-4&t

If you are so linear in your thinking that you think them moving would appease 250 fans, rather than significantly improving the atmosphere at Easter Road and making coming along easier to sell to the casual fan, then I'm not sure what to say really.

I can’t answer all the questions just as you can’t either. First point though is you cannot upgrade a child ticket to adult so not an option for hearts home games.

My son and my mum sit in the FF Lower and miss a couple of games a season and it’s tiresome hearing them get tarred with the same brush as people who attend less frequently. So I get a bit defensive

People suggest moving them to the south lower. So we want our family section to be permanently beside the away fans. Really. There are bams in every away support so the family section shouldn’t be there

I am supporting a singing section but for me it should the East.

Frogga
21-01-2020, 08:42 PM
Can we not turn FF Lower into full standing area with family section in FF Upper. Seems sensible to me.

Sent from my SM-J530F using Tapatalk

Hermit Crab
21-01-2020, 08:44 PM
Done, all for it. Initially in the East sections 44 and 45 with view to doing the whole East eventually.

HibeeHibernian4
21-01-2020, 09:09 PM
Done, all for it. Initially in the East sections 44 and 45 with view to doing the whole East eventually.

Would look amazing if that could happen eventually. :agree:

Imagine walking out of the tunnel and staring over at roughly 6,000 Hibbys in rail seating. Would look amazing.

PH91
21-01-2020, 09:55 PM
East all day long for me.

Get the singing section near the traditional east stand singers and in reasonable proximity to the away fans and have easter road bouncing again. Far better than 2 areas of the ground singing out of sync and not getting the noise levels to where we want them to be, which is what has been happening the last 2 seasons.

Hermit Crab
22-01-2020, 09:13 AM
Would look amazing if that could happen eventually. :agree:

Imagine walking out of the tunnel and staring over at roughly 6,000 Hibbys in rail seating. Would look amazing.


Lets hope Hibs make this happen in 44/45 to begin with. I'd move my ST there.

lyonhibs
22-01-2020, 10:20 AM
Would look amazing if that could happen eventually. :agree:

Imagine walking out of the tunnel and staring over at roughly 6,000 Hibbys in rail seating. Would look amazing.

Tbh I remain uncertain what exactly is being looked into. Rail seating in a specific section or the singing section moving elsewhere from their current location but with no actual seating amendments in the stadium?

Andy74
22-01-2020, 10:41 AM
Perfect, so we agree that unallocated seating (or more specifically terracing) is an absolute priority, and that younger supporters are completely hampered by the sanitisation of modern football through all-seater stadia.

The reason why atmospheres were better back then (and I was there a lot of weeks despite your implication otherwise) is because more people were willing to join in with singing. There is a type of Hibs fan nowadays who seems to have zero interest in this, and indeed views those who do like to sing with some sort of suspicion.



Apart from:

- being shunted into the corner of the FF Upper to appease stubborn fans
- being harassed and filmed routinely by Police Scotland at away games
- being viewed by a % of the Hibs support as just some guys banging a drum, rather than a key part of the support
- being unable to drink at the ground because of draconian laws that are forty years out of date
- being told that safe standing won't be prioritised over the playing budget, and then pissing away said budget on dross like Vela
- having a safety officer who cannot understand that legality does not equate to morality, and as such seems to defend the ban of pyrotechnics with "but they're illegal!!!", rather than justify why

There will, in the next twenty years or so, be a trend towards improving the atmosphere in Scottish grounds. I'd sure like to think I was on the right side of that movement, rather than working obstinately against it.

You seem to think atmosphere should only be created by a group of fans in a co-ordinated way?

Folk who feel strongly enough about atmosphere should create it, spontaneously. Plenty of opportunity to do that without worrying about what is happening in a long standing family section.

If you think that policing and stewarding is difficult now, you've seen nothing!

jacomo
22-01-2020, 11:52 AM
East all day long for me.

Get the singing section near the traditional east stand singers and in reasonable proximity to the away fans and have easter road bouncing again. Far better than 2 areas of the ground singing out of sync and not getting the noise levels to where we want them to be, which is what has been happening the last 2 seasons.


Singing section back to the East? Agreed.

Standing section? Behind the goals in the FF please.

RIP
22-01-2020, 01:19 PM
East all day long for me.

Get the singing section near the traditional east stand singers and in reasonable proximity to the away fans and have easter road bouncing again. Far better than 2 areas of the ground singing out of sync and not getting the noise levels to where we want them to be, which is what has been happening the last 2 seasons.

The fact is that the Singing Section never left the East Stand.

A group of the most active Ultras did and the displays have been great. But the exercise to induce ALL the singers to move to the FF failed. Because as much as those of us in Sections 42 to 44 love to stand and sing we primarily want a great view.

High up from the East we can easily see both goals and the whole pitch. From the North Stand the view is not nearly as good. So it’s unrealistic to expect more people to flood over to the FF just because there are rails. My group have been standing in S43 for ten years. Quite safely as it happens

SquashedFrogg
22-01-2020, 01:33 PM
The fact is that the Singing Section never left the East Stand.

A group of the most active Ultras did and the displays have been great. But the exercise to induce ALL the singers to move to the FF failed. Because as much as those of us in Sections 42 to 44 love to stand and sing we primarily want a great view.

High up from the East we can easily see both goals and the whole pitch. From the North Stand the view is not nearly as good. So it’s unrealistic to expect more people to flood over to the FF just because there are rails. My group have been standing in S43 for ten years. Quite safely as it happens

We stand in S43 and you're spot on about the view.

j'adorehibs
22-01-2020, 01:40 PM
you can stay away from FF lower middle section as far as im concerned , im there with my kids and have been for a long time...off to the east, drown out the opposition fansid be happy to stand in the FF lower though but without the cheap ching and buckie brigade

Keith_M
22-01-2020, 02:07 PM
When will we see the results of your survey?

SChibs
22-01-2020, 02:36 PM
The fact is that the Singing Section never left the East Stand.

A group of the most active Ultras did and the displays have been great. But the exercise to induce ALL the singers to move to the FF failed. Because as much as those of us in Sections 42 to 44 love to stand and sing we primarily want a great view.

High up from the East we can easily see both goals and the whole pitch. From the North Stand the view is not nearly as good. So it’s unrealistic to expect more people to flood over to the FF just because there are rails. My group have been standing in S43 for ten years. Quite safely as it happens

Personally I'd rather have a better atmosphere and the team being more in encouraged whilst having a good view than the crap atmosphere we have now with a great view

ABZHFC
22-01-2020, 02:38 PM
We stand in S43 and you're spot on about the view.

I also used to stand in 43 for a couple of seasons a few years back, and the view was one of my favourite things about it (and I'm including the sunsets over the Forth in that)

I agree with the point made, safe standing isn't necessarily the be all and end all, but we do need some sort of clarity about where standing for the 90 minutes is permitted to take place in Easter Road. I would much rather it was at the top of the East, and we said (for example) the last 20 rows 45, 44, 43 and 42 are all (nominally) standing areas, and put it on the website so that anyone buying a ticket in that area could know what to expect.

Having said that, with safety restrictions the way that they are, I don't think the club are even allowed to come out and say "this is a standing area" unless they have a safe standing license in place, hence why these discussions are being had

SquashedFrogg
22-01-2020, 05:20 PM
I also used to stand in 43 for a couple of seasons a few years back, and the view was one of my favourite things about it (and I'm including the sunsets over the Forth in that)

I agree with the point made, safe standing isn't necessarily the be all and end all, but we do need some sort of clarity about where standing for the 90 minutes is permitted to take place in Easter Road. I would much rather it was at the top of the East, and we said (for example) the last 20 rows 45, 44, 43 and 42 are all (nominally) standing areas, and put it on the website so that anyone buying a ticket in that area could know what to expect.

Having said that, with safety restrictions the way that they are, I don't think the club are even allowed to come out and say "this is a standing area" unless they have a safe standing license in place, hence why these discussions are being had

Sometimes the sunset is the best part of 90 mins :greengrin

Since1875Hibs
22-01-2020, 05:21 PM
Thank you all for your responses.

Here are the results so far, we have also taken into account the number of people that have said the FFL middle should have been an option.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-YLD2WH2R7/

Hermit Crab
22-01-2020, 05:24 PM
Thank you all for your responses.

Here are the results so far, we have also taken into account the number of people that have said the FFL middle should have been an option.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-YLD2WH2R7/


Overwhelming majority opting for the East which was my choice as well. :aok:

Chuck Rhoades
22-01-2020, 06:08 PM
Overwhelming majority opting for the East which was my choice as well. :aok:

Only because behind the goals wasn’t an option. I would predict that section would win hands down ifan option going by the comments on here, Bounce and social media.

However, Hibs have told Since 1875 these are the options and don’t seem in the mood for conversation / negotiating on the matter. Group look to have accepted the options and now pushing on with them.

Really interested to see how quickly this can be implemented. For the start of next season would be excellent. Would need quick work given 20/21 season tickets will be marketed in the next 6-8 weeks going by past release dates.

Hermit Crab
23-01-2020, 08:16 PM
Only because behind the goals wasn’t an option. I would predict that section would win hands down ifan option going by the comments on here, Bounce and social media.

However, Hibs have told Since 1875 these are the options and don’t seem in the mood for conversation / negotiating on the matter. Group look to have accepted the options and now pushing on with them.

Really interested to see how quickly this can be implemented. For the start of next season would be excellent. Would need quick work given 20/21 season tickets will be marketed in the next 6-8 weeks going by past release dates.


Do we think this will be in for next season?

Keith_M
23-01-2020, 08:19 PM
Thank you all for your responses.

Here are the results so far, we have also taken into account the number of people that have said the FFL middle should have been an option.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-YLD2WH2R7/


Cheers and thanks for all your hard work

:aok:

Keith_M
23-01-2020, 08:21 PM
Only because behind the goals wasn’t an option. .


You need to have another look as there were two sections in the FF Lower listed as options.

Chuck Rhoades
23-01-2020, 08:44 PM
You need to have another look as there were two sections in the FF Lower listed as options.

You knew what I meant. Behind the goal - directly behind it, middle section!

Chuck Rhoades
23-01-2020, 08:44 PM
Do we think this will be in for next season?

No idea... hence my post.

GreenCastle
23-01-2020, 11:04 PM
If it does move back to East stand...

Few things to think about..

Keep doing the FF displays over 2 tiers..

Some more displays in East would be good - loved the previous efforts.

I remember all the flags at the back of the East for a few games - this should be reintroduced.

Fans should have Tynie type march every game - with a singsong outside East before heading to seats.

Wouldn’t waste money adding standing rails as not needed. Would rather a better PA / Scoreboard at each end / screens.

Hibs should really look at ways to do something about the empty seats in FF lower - not sure solution but trying to fill the middle 3 sections regularly would be a good start.

Can’t actually remember the last time it looked full.

Antifa Hibs
25-01-2020, 10:32 AM
If it does move back to East stand...

Few things to think about..

Keep doing the FF displays over 2 tiers..

Some more displays in East would be good - loved the previous efforts.

I remember all the flags at the back of the East for a few games - this should be reintroduced.

Fans should have Tynie type march every game - with a singsong outside East before heading to seats.

Wouldn’t waste money adding standing rails as not needed. Would rather a better PA / Scoreboard at each end / screens.

Hibs should really look at ways to do something about the empty seats in FF lower - not sure solution but trying to fill the middle 3 sections regularly would be a good start.

Can’t actually remember the last time it looked full.

Novelty would wear off if there was a march every game. Would be good to have one for a home derby though. Fit of the walk to Easter Road or summit.

Not sure being at the end of the East is going to be any different to the current situation? You need it front and centre to maximise it growing to other parts of the stadium. In the East the West punters will hear it, north and south probably not. Mental your most vocal and colourful fans in the UK get punted to the worst parts of the stadium wereas every other country they're front and centre for maximum affect.

Dunno if the attached works for sightlines etc. Not as good as FF lower but a decent compromise over the very end block (45?) of the East.

22932

Onceinawhile
25-01-2020, 11:20 AM
Novelty would wear off if there was a march every game. Would be good to have one for a home derby though. Fit of the walk to Easter Road or summit.

Not sure being at the end of the East is going to be any different to the current situation? You need it front and centre to maximise it growing to other parts of the stadium. In the East the West punters will hear it, north and south probably not. Mental your most vocal and colourful fans in the UK get punted to the worst parts of the stadium wereas every other country they're front and centre for maximum affect.

Dunno if the attached works for sightlines etc. Not as good as FF lower but a decent compromise over the very end block (45?) of the East.

22932

Part of that is usually cut out for Category A matches though.

I'm beginning to warm to the idea of doing it in the FFL, one section at a time starting nearest the east. Displaces less Season ticket holders that way.

linlithgowhibbie
25-01-2020, 01:57 PM
Think each FFL secton has about 400 seats so good area to start. Gets wet when raining tho.
Sell the 400 then start to expand if not displacing season tkt families

Moulin Yarns
25-01-2020, 02:13 PM
I notice that when you look at the different sections on the e-ticket site there are less season tickets sold proportionately in section 25 than in the other sections proposed in the survey, I wonder why?

Glory Lurker
25-01-2020, 02:45 PM
It’s obvious, really. The most cost-effective way of reducing the number of empty seats behind the FF goals would be to move them to be in front of the East.

Chuck Rhoades
25-01-2020, 07:07 PM
I notice that when you look at the different sections on the e-ticket site there are less season tickets sold proportionately in section 25 than in the other sections proposed in the survey, I wonder why?

Location.

Eyrie
25-01-2020, 09:32 PM
The end of the East makes the most sense because those next to the singing section will be more likely to join in and that can then spread down the East. It'll also be clearly audible in the West, although for the sake of those sitting near me I promise not to join in.

Keith_M
25-01-2020, 09:45 PM
You knew what I meant. Behind the goal - directly behind it, middle section!


Firstly, that's the place that would inconvenience other fans the most, presumably the reason why it wasn't listed as an option


Also, If that's what our young team of singers want, then why did they choose to locate themselves at the side of the stand at Motherwell today, and not directly behind the goals?

Maybe you can tell me as well why they hardly sung anything other than some 'paedo' chants aimed at the guy conducting the singing in the Motherwell end?

Moulin Yarns
25-01-2020, 10:00 PM
Location.

Yet that's where the rowdy bunch known as the singing section is.

There is an assumption that those who stand will also sing, and those who sing also want to stand. The lack of season tickets sold in the singing section suggests that there isn't an appetite in our support.

ABZHFC
26-01-2020, 01:10 AM
Firstly, that's the place that would inconvenience other fans the most, presumably the reason why it wasn't listed as an option


Also, If that's what our young team of singers want, then why did they choose to locate themselves at the side of the stand at Motherwell today, and not directly behind the goals?

Maybe you can tell me as well why they hardly sung anything other than some 'paedo' chants aimed at the guy conducting the singing in the Motherwell end?

That’s a load of rubbish I’m afraid. The young team (who aren’t the same as the singing section by the way) backed the team throughout the 90 minutes. A few chants here and there aimed at the Motherwell Bois as banter, but 99% of the time singing about Hibs.

Genuinely is pathetic the way some posters on here look to put down a group of laddies who are the only ones willing to make an atmosphere at away games these days

ABZHFC
26-01-2020, 01:11 AM
Yet that's where the rowdy bunch known as the singing section is.

There is an assumption that those who stand will also sing, and those who sing also want to stand. The lack of season tickets sold in the singing section suggests that there isn't an appetite in our support.

Because the location is terrible and it needs changed?

Keith_M
26-01-2020, 10:23 AM
I notice that when you look at the different sections on the e-ticket site there are less season tickets sold proportionately in section 25 than in the other sections proposed in the survey, I wonder why?


I think that corner has always had the lowest take up of Season Tickets, hence the reason the Singing Section was moved there (the least impact in terms of numbers affected).

I pointed out earlier that the young guys that do most of the singing chose to stand in the corner of the South Stand yesterday nearest the 'well Fans (not the middle section, directly behind the goals), so they pretty much voted with their feet.

Apparently having a bit of 'banter' with the opposition is the most important thing to them, so stick them in sections 44 and 45 where they can have their fun.

Keith_M
26-01-2020, 10:25 AM
That’s a load of rubbish I’m afraid. The young team (who aren’t the same as the singing section by the way) backed the team throughout the 90 minutes. A few chants here and there aimed at the Motherwell Bois as banter, but 99% of the time singing about Hibs.

Genuinely is pathetic the way some posters on here look to put down a group of laddies who are the only ones willing to make an atmosphere at away games these days

Naw, they really didn't



... the only ones willing to make an atmosphere at away games these days

Yep, sadly most of the support are the same as at any other club, we only sing when we're winning. I've mentioned before that I try to join in the songs and often get strange looks from the folk around me.

Helensburghhibs
26-01-2020, 10:30 AM
That’s a load of rubbish I’m afraid. The young team (who aren’t the same as the singing section by the way) backed the team throughout the 90 minutes. A few chants here and there aimed at the Motherwell Bois as banter, but 99% of the time singing about Hibs.

Genuinely is pathetic the way some posters on here look to put down a group of laddies who are the only ones willing to make an atmosphere at away games these days

Just for a bit of balance and insight into location then. I was sitting along the other end of the stand and only heard the paedo chants. The only hibs song that I heard was green and white army in the last minute.

I'm guessing you were in amongst them which may suggest that moving them to ff lower won't actually be the answer and it's more an issue of numbers or people willing to join in as many suggest

PaulSmith
26-01-2020, 10:43 AM
Is this safe standing thing pie in the sky or have the club spoken to anyone and this survey is sounding out the fans?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

ABZHFC
26-01-2020, 11:13 AM
Naw, they really didn't




Yep, sadly most of the support are the same as at any other club, we only sing when we're winning. I've mentioned before that I try to join in the songs and often get strange looks from the folk around me.

Off the top of my head, Turnbull's Tornadoes was sang about three times, as were many other Hibs songs. Apart from after Flo hit the post, hardly anyone in the away end wanted to know when it came to joining in with any of the chants

Chuck Rhoades
26-01-2020, 11:30 AM
Is this safe standing thing pie in the sky or have the club spoken to anyone and this survey is sounding out the fans?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

From what I understand officials at the club are in discussion with Since 1875 on the matter. They confirmed their options and asked the group to publish a survey to obtain a view from the wider support.

Helensburghhibs
26-01-2020, 11:45 AM
Off the top of my head, Turnbull's Tornadoes was sang about three times, as were many other Hibs songs. Apart from after Flo hit the post, hardly anyone in the away end wanted to know when it came to joining in with any of the chants

So like I have said it isn't so much about where the singing section is rather than the willingness of the wider support to join in. The sound wasn't any better yesterday than at home where they are now. Therefore. In my view St holders shouldn't be moved to accommodate them elsewhere at Easter road

ABZHFC
26-01-2020, 11:57 AM
So like I have said it isn't so much about where the singing section is rather than the willingness of the wider support to join in. The sound wasn't any better yesterday than at home where they are now. Therefore. In my view St holders shouldn't be moved to accommodate them elsewhere at Easter road

I take your point, but then what do we do about the worsening atmosphere at Easter Road? A few years back, it really did used to be bouncing on big nights, and it was still pretty decent for run-of-the-mill games, can't say that anymore. Why do hardly any Hibs fans want to join in with chants? I'm genuinely interested, as someone who prefers to stand and vocally back the team whenever possible

Helensburghhibs
26-01-2020, 01:04 PM
I take your point, but then what do we do about the worsening atmosphere at Easter Road? A few years back, it really did used to be bouncing on big nights, and it was still pretty decent for run-of-the-mill games, can't say that anymore. Why do hardly any Hibs fans want to join in with chants? I'm genuinely interested, as someone who prefers to stand and vocally back the team whenever possible

Personally I think the problem now is like minded people are now dotted around the stadium. When section 43 was active the majority of people who wanted to partake were all in the east. For most games the east was where the atmosphere was and occasionally it spread around the ground.

I sit near the singing section now and it feels in the ff upper that they are noisy. But....... The east is still noisier when it gets going. It also doesn't help I don't think that the singing section sing a lot of songs now that don't interest the wider support.

In my opinion if you stick the drum and singers back in the east, even not as a group but in similar areas and go back to the more popular songs then the atmosphere will grow from there.

This may come across as a dig at the singing section, it most definately is not.

PaulSmith
26-01-2020, 01:07 PM
From what I understand officials at the club are in discussion with Since 1875 on the matter. They confirmed their options and asked the group to publish a survey to obtain a view from the wider support.

So I’m going to guess that when LD talked about using capital to increase the fan experience that this is one of the strategic items for 2020/21.

Chuck Rhoades
26-01-2020, 01:49 PM
So I’m going to guess that when LD talked about using capital to increase the fan experience that this is one of the strategic items for 2020/21.

Based on what I know, I would presume so, yes.

#2 Double Tap
26-01-2020, 01:56 PM
The stadium is fine the way it is, the training ground is fine the way it is......I dont want any more money directed towards needless changes or upgrades, just invest in the playing squad and if they get that right, the fans will be standing anyway, as they have done for years without incident....

GreenCastle
26-01-2020, 02:13 PM
The only good thing about Calderwood / Butcher days were the fans support.

Green and White army chants continuously for about 10 mins from the East.

As I've said numerous times on here - it's 2 issues - best place to improve atmosphere and a need to sort the Famous Five lower empty seat / non attendees.

Keith_M
26-01-2020, 02:28 PM
The only good thing about Calderwood / Butcher days were the fans support.

Green and White army chants continuously for about 10 mins from the East.

As I've said numerous times on here - it's 2 issues - best place to improve atmosphere and a need to sort the Famous Five lower empty seat / non attendees.


:agree:

RE The bit in bold: The first couple of years after the re-build of the East was the best atmosphere at ER I can remember (Not in individual games, but consistently).

It also seemed more of a mixed group, with younger and not so young participants, and I think that helped.

The Since 1875 guys in the FF Upper certainly try their best and have often made the only noise out of the home end, but it would be nice to see a return to the East, and to the atmosphere of the early days of the East Stand.

Hermit Crab
26-01-2020, 06:06 PM
Seen at HT that Shrewsbury were the first EFL club to have a safe sanding section installed. Its actually the back rows of a stand. Could Hibs look at this instead of a whole section?


https://www.footballgroundguide.com/news/shrewsbury-town-set-to-install-safe-standing.html

A Hi-Bee
26-01-2020, 06:09 PM
Dont care were they put the standing area, will they be able to fly big **** off flags and let off flares.

Hermit Crab
26-01-2020, 06:12 PM
Dont care were they put the standing area, will they be able to fly big **** off flags and let off flares.

:confused:

Keith_M
26-01-2020, 06:14 PM
Seen at HT that Shrewsbury were the first EFL club to have a safe sanding section installed. Its actually the back rows of a stand. Could Hibs look at this instead of a whole section?


https://www.footballgroundguide.com/news/shrewsbury-town-set-to-install-safe-standing.html


That would be a great idea. People could stand and nobody else's view is affected.

Eyrie
26-01-2020, 07:41 PM
Seen at HT that Shrewsbury were the first EFL club to have a safe sanding section installed. Its actually the back rows of a stand. Could Hibs look at this instead of a whole section?


https://www.footballgroundguide.com/news/shrewsbury-town-set-to-install-safe-standing.html

Makes sense.

Keith_M
27-01-2020, 01:57 PM
We should have followed Killie's example and built a stadium three times the size of our average home support.

Then we could easily have dedicated a whole stand as a Singing Section.

:)

Irish-Hibee
27-01-2020, 09:50 PM
Either Since 1875 have spoken to the club who are open to the idea or they are trying to put pressure on the board.

The issue is though, the poll was hugely in favour of moving it 44/45, which I would also be in favour of, however I can't see the board agreeing to this due to the idiots throwing stuff recently. They'll want to keep it as far away from the away fans as possible. I don't think they'll want to disrupt the family stand so I reckon it will be in 37/38 which will be a pity.

For me, the reason it was so good in the past is because of the close proximity to the away fans.

Chuck Rhoades
27-01-2020, 09:53 PM
Either Since 1875 have spoken to the club who are open to the idea or they are trying to put pressure on the board.

The issue is though, the poll was hugely in favour of moving it 44/45, which I would also be in favour of, however I can't see the board agreeing to this due to the idiots throwing stuff recently. They'll want to keep it as far away from the away fans as possible. I don't think they'll want to disrupt the family stand so I reckon it will be in 37/38 which will be a pity.

For me, the reason it was so good in the past is because of the close proximity to the away fans.

The club decided the poll options. They confirmed those are the only options they will considered due to other sections impeding the views of other supporters - i.e. directly behind the goal, as one example.

Stuart93
27-01-2020, 09:59 PM
The club decided the poll options. They confirmed those are the only options they will considered due to other sections impeding the views of other supporters - i.e. directly behind the goal, as one example.

Hmm. If the singing section were to be given the full section behind the goal I’m struggling to see how that’s impeding anyone’s view?

Section lies empty most games as well.

Chuck Rhoades
27-01-2020, 10:04 PM
Hmm. If the singing section were to be given the full section behind the goal I’m struggling to see how that’s impeding anyone’s view?

Section lies empty most games as well.

Agreed, just passing on info!

Irish-Hibee
27-01-2020, 10:12 PM
Hmm. If the singing section were to be given the full section behind the goal I’m struggling to see how that’s impeding anyone’s view?

Section lies empty most games as well.

I think the issue the club don't want to upset the people in those seats. There's a lot more season ticket holders in their that it would seem, childs tickets are so cheap, people buy them and rarely use them.

If I recall correctly the price of an adult ticket and a child ticket together in the family section is the same price as an adult in the east or west? If that's the case you're naturally gonna get fans buying both so they can occasionally bring their child, grandchild, niece or nephew. Problem is half the time the seat is empty

Irish-Hibee
27-01-2020, 10:13 PM
The club decided the poll options. They confirmed those are the only options they will considered due to other sections impeding the views of other supporters - i.e. directly behind the goal, as one example.

I understand that but I still don't think they would move it to 44/45. I hope I'm wrong. I feel they could be backing themselves into a corner.

Keith_M
08-03-2020, 06:01 PM
So what was the result of the poll and will the Since 1875 guys be moving there?

If so, when?

Keith_M
09-03-2020, 08:37 AM
So what was the result of the poll and will the Since 1875 guys be moving there?

If so, when?


Nobody know?


:dunno:

green&left
09-03-2020, 08:42 AM
Nobody know?


:dunno:

A link with the results has already been posted on this thread. You quoted and replied to it.

Hibbyradge
09-03-2020, 09:53 AM
A link with the results has already been posted on this thread. You quoted and replied to it.

Any chance of posting it again?

Andy74
09-03-2020, 10:22 AM
Any chance of posting it again?

It was about 70% in favour of the East.

Moulin Yarns
09-03-2020, 11:10 AM
https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-YLD2WH2R7/

Hibbyradge
09-03-2020, 11:19 AM
It was about 70% in favour of the East.

Thanks.

Hibbyradge
09-03-2020, 11:19 AM
https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-YLD2WH2R7/

Cheers.

Keith_M
09-03-2020, 01:30 PM
A link with the results has already been posted on this thread. You quoted and replied to it.


I asked because I can no longer access that page. I have no idea why, it just won't show up

I also wanted to know if there was any update from the group as to their plans for a move to the area voted for in the poll (or if they're going to just stay where they are).

I asked this because I'm looking forward to an improvement in the atmosphere at games, which is pretty flat just now.



Is that OK?

:dunno:

HibeeHibernian4
09-03-2020, 05:12 PM
I asked because I can no longer access that page. I have no idea why, it just won't show up

I also wanted to know if there was any update from the group as to their plans for a move to the area voted for in the poll (or if they're going to just stay where they are).

I asked this because I'm looking forward to an improvement in the atmosphere at games, which is pretty flat just now.



Is that OK?

:dunno:

Season Ticket information seems to suggest they're staying in the FF Upper.

Absolutely no idea if the group have agreed to that but I think that's a disaster of an idea.

Keith_M
09-03-2020, 05:46 PM
Season Ticket information seems to suggest they're staying in the FF Upper.

Absolutely no idea if the group have agreed to that but I think that's a disaster of an idea.


Cheers mate.

:aok:


I'm personally thinking of a permanent move to in or near Section 43, to make a bit more of a contribution myself to the singing (even though I'm knocking on a bit :-) ).

hibbyfraelibby
09-03-2020, 06:28 PM
Season Ticket information seems to suggest they're staying in the FF Upper.

Absolutely no idea if the group have agreed to that but I think that's a disaster of an idea.

Nothing to Stop the SS moving seats to the East S43 and into the Gold seats freed up by the price hike.

They have a choice. Be proactive and move back to the ( more expensive) East or do nothing and mump and moan for another 12 months in the cheap seats.

HibeeHibernian4
09-03-2020, 08:50 PM
Nothing to Stop the SS moving seats to the East S43 and into the Gold seats freed up by the price hike.

They have a choice. Be proactive and move back to the ( more expensive) East or do nothing and mump and moan for another 12 months in the cheap seats.

Do you think there's going to be a mass exodus from 43 because of the Gold pricing? I don't particularly.

Onceinawhile
10-03-2020, 10:01 AM
Nothing to Stop the SS moving seats to the East S43 and into the Gold seats freed up by the price hike.

They have a choice. Be proactive and move back to the ( more expensive) East or do nothing and mump and moan for another 12 months in the cheap seats.

Is there any notion that it's purely the boys from since 1875 moaning about where they are?

I tend to get the feeling it's other people doing it on their behalf tbh.