Mediocre Players

[Dolce7]

Let’s face it our team is full off journey men who aren’t good enough for Hibs .

i mean not just hibs but all the teams in our league
with the exception of rangers and Celtic due to
finances

[Vault Boy]

Full of journeymen? Nah

[flash]

Let’s face it our team is full off journey men who aren’t good enough for Hibs .

Who in particular?

[lyonhibs]

Let’s face it our team is full off journey men who aren’t good enough for Hibs .

Were you saying that after Tynecastle? Shan patter all the way.

[147lothian]

Who in particular?

Don't feed the troll

[bingo70]

When I saw the title of this thread I came on to agree with you but your post is far harsher than it needs to be.

I don’t think we’re a good side just now, and I think we are pretty average personnel wise.

That said though I think all the players are giving it everything they’ve got, we did alright today and in general I think Ross is getting the most out of a pretty mediocre squad. Clearly should have won but I’d fancy us in the replay so I don’t see any reason to get too humpty with the players.

[Jones28]

Away and take your face for a *****

[erin go bragh]

Let’s face it our team is full off journey men who aren’t good enough for Hibs .
Sniff sniff !

[Crab apple]

Boyle, Allan and Kamberi would walk into most teams in this league. We need to shift the PH mistakes like Vela, James and Jackson but the team can’t be described as full of journeymen.

[Diclonius]

Ten years ago, aye, maybe. Now? No.

We have a good core but an unbalanced squad, forcing us to rely on too many older players who are declining physically. Journeymen? Nah.

[KingPat4]

Let’s face it our team is full off journey men who aren’t good enough for Hibs .

Name them, please?

[MWHIBBIES]

Let’s face it our team is full off journey men who aren’t good enough for Hibs .

Google journeyman, you don't know what it means.

[Sir David Gray]

We have some very good players, a few poor players who aren't good enough and a number of players in between who blow hot and cold.

We need to bring in a few players who are in the very good category but I don't think we're far away. The defence needs major surgery done to it but going forward we're a decent side.

[CMurdoch]

Let’s face it our team is full off journey men who aren’t good enough for Hibs .

Have looked at all your post history and must now call it.

LTYF

[familyman]

Complete lack of steel in the side..obvious we need a Scott Brown type of player .Pretty footwork is not enough and never was.
Not good enough to lose the lead twice. ..no excuse for that at all.
Sort it out and fast....

[Hibbyradge]

Let’s face it our team is full off journey men who aren’t good enough for Hibs .

:hmmm:

[KingPat4]

FWIW Stephe would have made a difference today.

[MrSmith]

For me, this could have been a definite slip up! We came through it though so, happy to come back to ER for a replay.

[Chorley Hibee]

I would say that there are too many average players within the squad, and we have to dispense with sentiment and replace Gray, Stevenson, Hanlon, McGregor et al.

We are an average side, and the current crop collectively aren't good enough to take us where we want to be.

[Centre Hawf]

Full of them? nah.

There is some of them though that can go imo. Vela, Jackson, Newall, Whittaker, James all aren't up to it. The youngsters don't seem to be able to break into the squad over some poor players either. And the back line we finished with today have been together for nearly 5 years.

The squad needs a refresh big style but there needs to be a sensible approach to doing that than just throwing out 10 players and bringing in 10 players.

[matty_f]

I thought the players did pretty well today. We were the better team and I don't think there was anyone in that United team (maybe the keeper) that I'd take in ours, and they're meant to be set up to be a Premiership side in the same way we were in that division.

[Diclonius]

Anyone who thinks this team has "journeymen" doesn't remember the journeymen of 2010-14.

[loanheadhibby]

Full of them? nah.

There is some of them though that can go imo. Vela, Jackson, Newall, Whittaker, James all aren't up to it. The youngsters don't seem to be able to break into the squad over some poor players either. And the back line we finished with today have been together for nearly 5 years.

The squad needs a refresh big style but there needs to be a sensible approach to doing that than just throwing out 10 players and bringing in 10 players.

The only guy from above who actually played today was Whittaker. I agree let’s get rid of the dross but there was some guys playing today who can go as well.

I agree with OP, we are joe average at best.we were playing a team from the Championship. How we still have a back four of Gray, McGregor, Hanson and Stevenson is beyond belief.

[Cataplana]

The only guy from above who actually played today was Whittaker. I agree let’s get rid of the dross but there was some guys playing today who can go as well.

I agree with OP, we are joe average at best.we were playing a team from the Championship. How we still have a back four of Gray, McGregor, Hanson and Stevenson is beyond belief.

Two of them came on as a result of injuries.

[Carheenlea]

Let’s face it our team is full off journey men who aren’t good enough for Hibs .

Are you related to Joe?

https://i.postimg.cc/zB9hk9bd/4-E2280-BA-312-C-4-D88-9-B9-D-4678512024-BC.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[CMurdoch]

The only guy from above who actually played today was Whittaker. I agree let’s get rid of the dross but there was some guys playing today who can go as well.

I agree with OP, we are joe average at best.we were playing a team from the Championship. How we still have a back four of Gray, McGregor, Hanson and Stevenson is beyond belief.

Did you not the second goal?
Appalling decision making by Whittaker to dive in, instead of staying goalside.

The injury to Porteous was as a result of having to recover another Whittaker error.

[Peevemor]

Did you not the second goal?
Appalling decision making by Whittaker to dive in, instead of staying goalside.

The injury to Porteous was as a result of having to recover another Whittaker error.He didn't dive in at all.

And Porteous injured himself.

[Since452]

Let’s face it our team is full off journey men who aren’t good enough for Hibs .

Behave

[loanheadhibby]

Did you not the second goal?
Appalling decision making by Whittaker to dive in, instead of staying goalside.

The injury to Porteous was as a result of having to recover another Whittaker error.

I agree Whittaker has had his day. But so have plenty others. I was responding to poster who was naming guys not playing as the problem.

incidentally, Porteous has no one but himself to blame for the injury. Hi constant throwing himself in to tackles is proving that. He’s turning in to the new James McPake. Porteous needs to calm down.

[emerald green]

Let’s face it our team is full off journey men who aren’t good enough for Hibs .

By "our team" you're referring to Hearts aren't you?

[Keith_M]

We have some very good players, a few poor players who aren't good enough and a number of players in between who blow hot and cold.

...


Sums it up nicely

[California-Hibs]

Jambo comes on .net full of confidence after winning against a League One team in only what, something like their 2nd or 3rd home win in a whole year?
Completely ignores the fact his team are rock bottom relegation fodder in the league and recently got spanked 0-2 at his team's own home in a derby.

How any Hearts fan feels confident to poke at a Hibee full of ammo these days is beyond me 😂 they're a strange bunch..

[NAE NOOKIE]

He didn't dive in at all.

And Porteous injured himself.

No he didn't, but he looked like he thought he could beat the Utd player to the ball when he just doesn't have that sharpness. By doing that he put himself in a position where he couldn't win the ball and couldn't check his opponent either .. it was poor play from an experienced professional who should have known better.

For me what we appear to lack is formation discipline out of possession. After watching the first half I concentrated on looking for the tried, tested and always effective two banks of four from Hibs when Utd were in possession in our half. It didn't happen much and when it did it was very ragged ... it resulted in a 20 yard pocket of space between our 18 yard box and half way where the players didn't seem to know if it was to be filled by the defence coming out or the midfield coming back and consequently Utd seemed able to play the ball in that area practically unchallenged, a better team would have punished us big time.

As for the OP. I don't know about journeymen, but without a doubt you wouldn't need to spend £500,000 each on players to improve certain areas of the team and the overall standard of our play. There was a game at St Mirren a few years ago where I laid into the team for players in possession not releasing the ball quick enough when the pass was there to be made, and we did that too often again today ... the quicker you move the ball the more dangerous you become, its something the Hibs coaching staff need to drill into the players, because I bet I could sit with the players watching a rerun of that game and say to any one of them .... 'there was the pass why didn't you make it?' .... 'why did you need a second touch there?' ... 'why did you pass that into traffic when player X,Y,Z was free in space'

A lot of our problem isn't players with a lack of ability, it's players with a lack of on field intelligence.

[whiskyhibby]

Let’s face it our team is full off journey men who aren’t good enough for Hibs .

:troll::troll::kbacker:

[CMurdoch]

He didn't dive in at all.

And Porteous injured himself.

The 2nd United goal doesn't happen if Whittaker goes goalside of Appere instead of diving in to try to intercept the pass which he misjudges. Could understand it if we were behind and chasing the game late on but not when we are ahead and they have run out of ideas. Poor decision making from an experienced player.

[allezsauzee]

The 2nd United goal doesn't happen if Whittaker goes goalside of Appere instead of diving in to try to intercept the pass which he misjudges. Could understand it if we were behind and chasing the game late on but not when we are ahead and they have run out of ideas. Dreadful decision making.

I'd lay much more of the blame at Sir David's feet for a very poor clearance. A terrific bit of skill from Appere from then on in though.

[CMurdoch]

I'd lay much more of the blame at Sir David's feet for a very poor clearance. A terrific bit of skill from Appere from then on in though.

Will have a look

[B.H.F.C]

I'd lay much more of the blame at Sir David's feet for a very poor clearance. A terrific bit of skill from Appere from then on in though.

Was right behind the shot and thought Marciano was very, very slow to react. It was the only place the boy could hit it and it wasn’t as if he smashed it.

[broondog]

Not true at all. What is obvious is we are still miles away from where we need to be. I think we need to bring in players in this window to strengthen or we are going to have a poor season again. Really important we don’t rely in this group. We are a couple of injuries away from really struggling

[Robbo6-2]

Hibs aren't a terrible side, we are average at minute tho.

We need new players to go in the first 11.

[B.H.F.C]

It’s not going to be sorted in this window IMO.

The back four and defensive element of the midfield needs totally rebuilt.

[Centre Hawf]

I agree Whittaker has had his day. But so have plenty others. I was responding to poster who was naming guys not playing as the problem.

incidentally, Porteous has no one but himself to blame for the injury. Hi constant throwing himself in to tackles is proving that. He’s turning in to the new James McPake. Porteous needs to calm down.

my point mostly was that these guys were not even getting into the squads and are no doubt on decent wages and stopping us strengthening properly but taking up a chunk of our budget. There are definitely some who played today that aren't up to it. Hanlon has been poor for a while, I'm not entirely sure Porto has been great recently (maybe needs a time out not suggesting he's rank or a problem).

[Iggy Pope]

I thought Whittaker played well. Sold himself a tad at the 2nd goal but Rocky sold the jerseys.

[SanFranHibs]

I thought Whittaker played well. Sold himself a tad at the 2nd goal but Rocky sold the jerseys.

We're still a selling club I see :wink:

[Pretty Boy]

We are a bang average side. We have a couple of very good players, some good ones, some who are probably past their peak and some who are fairly poor. We don't have many journeymen.

We need to improve, everyone knows that and it will happen. I don't actually disagree some of our players aren't good enough for where we are aiming to be. We wouldn't be 6th in the league and miles off the European places if they were.

[Tully]

I thought Whittaker played well. Sold himself a tad at the 2nd goal but Rocky sold the jerseys.

Gray to blame for 2nd put it out for a throw in pressure is then of

[Dolce7]

By "our team" you're referring to Hearts aren't you?

absolutely not

[Iggy Pope]

Gray to blame for 2nd put it out for a throw in pressure is then of

I’ve responded on another thread but I thought Porteous was culpable at the first equaliser by wasting possession and booting it straight back to them.

[jgl07]

Let’s face it our team is full off journey men who aren’t good enough for Hibs .

i mean not just hibs but all the teams in our league
with the exception of rangers and Celtic due to
finances

Sniff!

[007]

Let’s face it our team is full off journey men who aren’t good enough for Hibs .

i mean not just hibs but all the teams in our league
with the exception of rangers and Celtic due to
finances

Correct. Hearts are full of journeyman who aren't good enough for Hibs.

Bit late to backtrack by editing to add the 2nd paragraph when several people have replied to the original. I don't believe that's what you meant, your original version posted was very clear re what you meant.

[Peevemor]

The 2nd United goal doesn't happen if Whittaker goes goalside of Appere instead of diving in to try to intercept the pass which he misjudges. Could understand it if we were behind and chasing the game late on but not when we are ahead and they have run out of ideas. Poor decision making from an experienced player.When did Whittaker "dive in"? I certainly didn't see it.

[green with envy]

Let’s face it our team is full off journey men who aren’t good enough for Hibs .

i mean not just hibs but all the teams in our league
with the exception of rangers and Celtic due to
finances

Slavering rubbish.

[MikeyS]

When did Whittaker "dive in"? I certainly didn't see it.

Maybe not so much a dive in but he tried to 2nd guess which way the forward was going to go and got it completely wrong. Whatever way you want to call it he didnt cover himself in glory anyway!

[Peevemor]

Maybe not so much a dive in but he tried to 2nd guess which way the forward was going to go and got it completely wrong. Whatever way you want to call it he didnt cover himself in glory anyway!No he didn't, but staying on his feet and "trying to 2nd guess" is totally different from diving in. Totally the opposite in fact.

[EI255]

Think tonight highlighted Kamberi is playing at the right level. He'll never be English Championship class.

Sent from my LG-H840 using Tapatalk

[MikeyS]

No he didn't, but staying on his feet and "trying to 2nd guess" is totally different from diving in. Totally the opposite in fact.

I didnt say he did dive in mate, that was another poster. I was just passing my interpretation of it.

[Since452]

Think tonight highlighted Kamberi is playing at the right level. He'll never be English Championship class.

Sent from my LG-H840 using Tapatalk

Really? I thought he was terrific

[Alfred E Newman]

Let’s face it our team is full off journey men who aren’t good enough for Hibs .

i mean not just hibs but all the teams in our league
with the exception of rangers and Celtic due to
finances
Maybe you want to edit your post again and take out the rest of the rubbish.

[MikeyS]

Really? I thought he was terrific

Flo is proving to be one of these players that completely splits the fan base. I've seen more than a few say he was terrific, excellent etc but just as many slate him. Especially on Twitter where the abuse has been way OTT!

Today, I was say he had a good game. Was involved in most attacks, had a good early chance and also did his bit tracking back. I'd certainly rather have him in the time that out that's for sure.

[Peevemor]

I didnt say he did dive in mate, that was another poster. I was just passing my interpretation of it.Yeah, I was agreeing with you.

[MikeyS]

Yeah, I was agreeing with you.

👍🏻

[Speedway]

One measure is that if you saw any of our players playing for the opposition, you’d want us to sign them.

When looked at from that perspective, which of today XI looked like they deserve to be in a top 3/4 side?

[Centre Hawf]

Flo is proving to be one of these players that completely splits the fan base. I've seen more than a few say he was terrific, excellent etc but just as many slate him. Especially on Twitter where the abuse has been way OTT!

Today, I was say he had a good game. Was involved in most attacks, had a good early chance and also did his bit tracking back. I'd certainly rather have him in the time that out that's for sure.

I have a feeling some people see the potential he has and want to see it more often than is sometimes shown.

Others I think have decided he's far too inconsistent and perhaps even petulant due to falling out with the previous two managers and won't change their mind until he bangs in 10 goals in 10 games.

[Unseen work]

I don’t think we have a mediocre first 11, as a squad probably. I don’t think we’re too far off having a very good team, it just takes some more balance and quality brought in for certain positions

..................................Marciano........ ..

Naismith/Gray........New CB......Hanlon/Porteous.....New LB.....

...................................New DM.......

...........................Boyle..........Hallberg

.......................................Allan...... ..

............................Doidge..........Kamber i.....

If we get a new centre half, left back, defensive mid and potentially a striker we would see a huge improvement imo.

If that’s the formation/changing it to a 433 like we did today with Kamberi going on the left we’re strong.

Add in Omeonga, Mallan, Horgan we have good options to rotate, freshen things up or add match winners.

We need leaders and to be able to see out a lead/soak up some pressure. There’s no way we should have got anything other than 3 points today.

Fwiw I think Porteous needs to buck up his ideas, doesn’t seem to be learning from his mistakes.

[DavidDavidGray]

I really like Kamberi and he is very talented, but I thought he was honking today aside from his run for Boyles goal. Slowed down just about every single attack that came his way. He clearly has talent and can be a very good striker so I still want him played but he needs to find consistency soon. He’ll drop a 10/10 performance like he did vs Aberdeen and then follow it up with a couple stinkers

[inglisavhibs]

I thought the players did pretty well today. We were the better team and I don't think there was anyone in that United team (maybe the keeper) that I'd take in ours, and they're meant to be set up to be a Premiership side in the same way we were in that division.
Well said, sometimes you wonder about so called fans. Paul Hanlon for instance was superb today yet still fans call him out. In truth our least effective player by a mile today was Scott Allan but not a word against him of course.

[The 90+2]

I don’t think we have a mediocre first 11, as a squad probably. I don’t think we’re too far off having a very good team, it just takes some more balance and quality brought in for certain positions

..................................Marciano........ ..

Naismith/Gray........New CB......Hanlon/Porteous.....New LB.....

...................................New DM.......

...........................Boyle..........Hallberg

.......................................Allan...... ..

............................Doidge..........Kamber i.....

If we get a new centre half, left back, defensive mid and potentially a striker we would see a huge improvement imo.

If that’s the formation/changing it to a 433 like we did today with Kamberi going on the left we’re strong.

Add in Omeonga, Mallan, Horgan we have good options to rotate, freshen things up or add match winners.

We need leaders and to be able to see out a lead/soak up some pressure. There’s no way we should have got anything other than 3 points today.

Fwiw I think Porteous needs to buck up his ideas, doesn’t seem to be learning from his mistakes.

Omeonga for Hallberg any day of the week.

I wonder if Horgan might be on his way? Newell Horgan and Vela would clear up a lot of wages.

[CMurdoch]

Yeah, I was agreeing with you.

Okay my final offer for 2nd Utd goal

Gray instead of kicking the ball into touch tried to play it up the line when unsighted and unbalanced. As a result the ball landed at a Utd players foot who passed it forward to Appre. Instead of getting goalside Whittaker dived in front of the Utd player to attempt to intercept the ball but misjudged it and was left for dead by Appre who bent the ball into the corner of the net of the post.
Basic errors by Gray & Whittaker

[loanheadhibby]

Well said, sometimes you wonder about so called fans. Paul Hanlon for instance was superb today yet still fans call him out. In truth our least effective player by a mile today was Scott Allan but not a word against him of course.

But we did not win a game we should have comfortably won based on the actual match. The same thing happens time and time again with these players. How many leads have we thrown away?

It's cost the last manager his job and Ross is no mug. Whether he is backed to change it remains to be seen or he will just be another managerial casualty. Instead of changing the manager, why not try and change some of the players.

[jacomo]

We should have won yesterday but couldn’t kill the game off.

We need to address some obvious weaknesses in our squad but also need existing players to show some fundamental quality. Too many misplaced passes and unforced errors imo.

[Brightside]

Amazing all these posters that seem to appear on the back of a disappointing result. Don't be shy guys, feel free to get involved all year round. :thumbsup:

[B.H.F.C]

Amazing all these posters that seem to appear on the back of a disappointing result. Don't be shy guys, feel free to get involved all year round. :thumbsup:

Do you think our squad is better than mediocre? Remember, we’ve not actually won very many games this season.

[Since452]

Flo is proving to be one of these players that completely splits the fan base. I've seen more than a few say he was terrific, excellent etc but just as many slate him. Especially on Twitter where the abuse has been way OTT!

Today, I was say he had a good game. Was involved in most attacks, had a good early chance and also did his bit tracking back. I'd certainly rather have him in the time that out that's for sure.

Good point about Twitter. Some of the comments on the official Hibs account are chronic. Actually embarrassed reading them. I like Twitter for information but seriously thinking of getting rid

[PeeJay]

Well said, sometimes you wonder about so called fans. Paul Hanlon for instance was superb today yet still fans call him out. In truth our least effective player by a mile today was Scott Allan but not a word against him of course.

Think you make a fair point about Hanlon, but several posts on other threads have mentioned Allan's "poor" game - personally, I thought he did some fine stuff at times (1st goal/2nd goal), but much of what he attempted didn't come off ... but to say he was the "least effective" is really quite odd, considering his 2 assists?

[Brightside]

Well said, sometimes you wonder about so called fans. Paul Hanlon for instance was superb today yet still fans call him out. In truth our least effective player by a mile today was Scott Allan but not a word against him of course.

A lot of fans and people on the forum do not like Paul Hanlon - its not new, its been there most of his career. Some people just want CHs that "bully" forwards, that slide into attackers, and clear the ball into Row z. Paul Hanlon needs to have 10 stand out games in a row before he would get a 75% approval rating. He's a big boy though and he can handle the nonsense that comes his way. Other players can have 1 good game in 10 and they are outstanding. People are strange its just reality. Many people are just transferring their anger in life in general onto players. Its why a lot of people go to football. Stand for 90 mins and slag off players they dont like. Its not healthy for the people doing it but they need to understand that and want to change their attitude to watching football. They are probably the same people that would scream and shout at kids football. :rolleyes:

[JimBHibees]

Think you make a fair point about Hanlon, but several posts on other threads have mentioned Allan's "poor" game - personally, I thought he did some fine stuff at times (1st goal/2nd goal), but much of what he attempted didn't come off ... but to say he was the "least effective" is really quite odd, considering his 2 assists?

Boyle had the assist for the first Scott rolled it back for Martin for the assist. Thought Scott tried the difficult too many times imo.

[Brightside]

Do you think our squad is better than mediocre? Remember, we’ve not actually won very many games this season.

Its a top 6 SPL squad. Thats why i expect, and i hope for top 4.

[PeeJay]

Boyle had the assist for the first Scott rolled it back for Martin for the assist. Thought Scott tried the difficult too many times imo.

Yeah, "assist" is a concept I don't quite grasp :greengrin, but Scott pinged the ball out wide to Boyle who then made the assist - so he was involved to a major extent in both goals ...

[easty]

One measure is that if you saw any of our players playing for the opposition, you’d want us to sign them.

When looked at from that perspective, which of today XI looked like they deserve to be in a top 3/4 side?

How many of the Aberdeen team would get on our team based on the 3-0 humping we have then a few weeks ago? Aberdeen are a top 3 side mind.

[B.H.F.C]

Its a top 6 SPL squad. Thats why i expect, and i hope for top 4.

So you think 6 wins by January in the league is fine?

[Peevemor]

So you think 6 wins by January in the league is fine?

Under Hecky in the league - W1 D6 L4 - 9pts - 0.8pts/match
Since Hecky - W5 D1 L4 - 16pts - 1.6pts/match

That average from the start of the season would have had us on 40 points - ie. in 3rd place 3 points clear of Motherwell and 12 behind leaders Celtic.

Maybe a bit simplistic but it suggests to me that that it's the tactics/coaching and not the squad (although obviously not perfect) that was at fault.

[B.H.F.C]

Under Hecky in the league - W1 D6 L4 - 9pts - 0.8pts/match
Since Hecky - W5 D1 L4 - 16pts - 1.6pts/match

That average from the start of the season would have had us on 40 points - ie. in 3rd place 3 pounts clear of Motherwell and 12 behind leaders Celtic.

Maybe a bit simplistic but it suggests to me that that it's the tactics/coaching and not the squad (although obviously not perfect) that was at fault.

I think we were always a bit better than what we showed under Heckingbottom. We are still distinctly average though. Posted on another thread that I don’t necessarily think that is the fault of Ross, it is going to be a bit of a slow process before we really see his team IMO. He’s already started to clear out some of the duds but that’ll take time.

Until we can sort out the defensive side of the team we will continue to draw or lose too many games. We will win games here and there because we do carry a threat going forward. Regardless of who’s fault it is, I don’t think the squad is much better than mediocre though.

[Peevemor]

I think we were always a bit better than what we showed under Heckingbottom. We are still distinctly average though. Posted on another thread that I don’t necessarily think that is the fault of Ross, it is going to be a bit of a slow process before we really see his team IMO. He’s already started to clear out some of the duds but that’ll take time.

Until we can sort out the defensive side of the team we will continue to draw or lose too many games. We will win games here and there because we do carry a threat going forward. Regardless of who’s fault it is, I don’t think the squad is much better than mediocre though.

Possibly, but would we be having the same discussion if we were sitting 3rd with 40 points? How many goals would Doidge be on had he played in a front 2 all season? We'll never know.

Edit - I've just noticed that my calculations are wrong. We'd be 5th on 34 points - 2 behind Aberdeen and 9 ahead of Livingston.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Let’s face it our team is full off journey men who aren’t good enough for Hibs .

i mean not just hibs but all the teams in our league
with the exception of rangers and Celtic due to
finances

Mmmm whats that smell? Ah yes... Keek(back)

[B.H.F.C]

Possibly, but would we be having the same discussion if we were sitting 3rd with 40 points? How many goals would Doidge be on had he played in a front 2 all season? We'll never know.

Edit - I've just noticed that my calculations are wrong. We'd be 5th on 34 points - 2 behind Aberdeen and 9 ahead of Livingston.

We likely wouldn’t be having the conversation but it’s entirely hypothetical anyway. We’re sitting 6th, not 3rd hence why we are having the conversation. As I say, I don’t lay the blame for that with Ross but, to me, he has a lot to do to get this squad to a position where we’ll be competing for Europe.

[Smartie]

Do you think our squad is better than mediocre? Remember, we’ve not actually won very many games this season.

I do.

It’s lacking in certain areas but I think we have many good players and few (if any) who I would call mediocre.

[MrSmith]

Ha ha all these wanna be posters coming out the wood work to criticise is hilarious! If they think their jumbo squad would beat Dundee Utd? They are more than deluded. :cb

[B.H.F.C]

I do.

It’s lacking in certain areas but I think we have many good players and few (if any) who I would call mediocre.

We have some players who are much better than mediocre. But as a collective, I don’t think it is much better than mediocre or average.

Nobody has really played consistently well this season. Some have in spells, Boyle being the obvious example just now.

But I don’t think the squad, as it is, is going to compete for anything.

[Brightside]

We have some players who are much better than mediocre. But as a collective, I don’t think it is much better than mediocre or average.

Nobody has really played consistently well this season. Some have in spells, Boyle being the obvious example just now.

But I don’t think the squad, as it is, is going to compete for anything.

I dont think there is a squad outside of the old form that isnt Average.

[Smartie]

We have some players who are much better than mediocre. But as a collective, I don’t think it is much better than mediocre or average.

Nobody has really played consistently well this season. Some have in spells, Boyle being the obvious example just now.

But I don’t think the squad, as it is, is going to compete for anything.

I don’t think the squad will compete for anything as it is, but it’s not far away.

Boyle was player of the month last month, Doidge the month before that. Allan has been outstanding in spells.

I don’t think anyone has been awful at any point, a few players have been a bit average but can do better.

A tweak to the midfield and I think we’re a different proposition.

[B.H.F.C]

I dont think there is a squad outside of the old form that isnt Average.

It’s relative to the level you are playing at. In this league, and as results show, we look average.

[B.H.F.C]

I don’t think the squad will compete for anything as it is, but it’s not far away.

Boyle was player of the month last month, Doidge the month before that. Allan has been outstanding in spells.

I don’t think anyone has been awful at any point, a few players have been a bit average but can do better.

A tweak to the midfield and I think we’re a different proposition.

The midfield issue being addressed makes a difference, certainly. But is that alone going to stop the consession of as many goals. We have the second worst defensive record in the league, I think more than one tweak is required to significantly improve that.

[Daydreamer]

It's strange to me that the likes of Campbell and Stirling who both have the physique to play as a defensive midfielder after being at the club for a good few years have been on loan in a defensive capacity and can't get in to the team before a full back that is 35. Jack Ross must take a chance on some of the development players or whats the point of The Gareth Evans , Eddie May philosophy?

[Brightside]

I was over at Lennoxtown yesterday for other football matters, and i was surprised to see how many Dev players were hanging around and using the facilities. I've never seen that up at HTC. Perhaps we just dont have the staff to support that - but these guys were doing a lot of stuff on their own. Mainly S&C work.

[Vault Boy]

Whilst the OP is hyperbolic drivel IMO, the title of the thread is probably fair. We're bang average this season, that's reflected in our results and league position.

It could have been worse, because under Hecky we were very clearly playing at a below average level and in danger of remaining there. So at least there's been progress to enjoy.

Omeonga makes a big difference to an otherwise lethargic midfield, let's hope there's more to follow.

[Smartie]

The midfield issue being addressed makes a difference, certainly. But is that alone going to stop the consession of as many goals. We have the second worst defensive record in the league, I think more than one tweak is required to significantly improve that.

We lost loads of goals and were all over the shop during August. We weren't great throughout the first quarter of the season but improved greatly during the second. I accept your "goals conceded" stat isn't great, but I'm not really losing any sleep over that as I think it is a bit historical.

I'm not arguing that we don't lose too many cheap goals - we do - but the defensive aspect of our midfield play has been the most lacking thing, whether it's being able to drive a bus through the middle of our team or being able to double up on our fullbacks down the flanks, both of which we've been culpable of when we've been losing the majority of those cheap goals.

[B.H.F.C]

It could have been worse, because under Hecky we were very clearly playing at a below average level and in danger of remaining there. So at least there's been progress to enjoy.

Agree. Ross has probably got us playing to a level that is more reflective of the abilities of the squad, where as Heckingbottom had them playing below that.

I don’t think Ross has done anything special to be fair, he just sets up in a way that allows us to actually be a threat.

I take some confidence, that he knows what he’s doing, in that he’s made a start on getting rid of some of the garbage Heckingbottom brought in. Middleton gone, Maxwell all but gone. Jackson, James and Vela not even making the bench yesterday (I know Vela is meant to be injured).

I don’t think there will be any major changes this window. It’ll be the summer before he really puts his stamp on things.

[B.H.F.C]

We lost loads of goals and were all over the shop during August. We weren't great throughout the first quarter of the season but improved greatly during the second. I accept your "goals conceded" stat isn't great, but I'm not really losing any sleep over that as I think it is a bit historical.

I'm not arguing that we don't lose too many cheap goals - we do - but the defensive aspect of our midfield play has been the most lacking thing, whether it's being able to drive a bus through the middle of our team or being able to double up on our fullbacks down the flanks, both of which we've been culpable of when we've been losing the majority of those cheap goals.

I don’t think the defensive thing is all historic. If you think of The games we’ve dropped points in we lost 2 at Ross County, 2 at Livingston, 2 at home to Killie. The majority of those goals were from crosses. We let far too many in to the box. A midfielder possibly helps in some way, but I still think there is a lot of other things needing fixed defensively.

Five in the games against the Old Firm as well but I’ve almost discounted them as we were so far off them in those games.

[inglisavhibs]

Think you make a fair point about Hanlon, but several posts on other threads have mentioned Allan's "poor" game - personally, I thought he did some fine stuff at times (1st goal/2nd goal), but much of what he attempted didn't come off ... but to say he was the "least effective" is really quite odd, considering his 2 assists?

To say that was two assists is pushing the boat out a bit. I would say Boyle assisted for the first with a great run and pass and I suppose if you call a sideways pass to Boyle an assist (who has three defenders between him and the goal), we can be generous! I am not having go at Allan as he is a talented player who does well for Hibs, but yesterday was a bad day for him. He gave the ball away on many occasions in dangerous areas, was muscled off the ball too easily and generally didn't contribute nearly enough on the day. At the game my feeling was that most Hibs players put in a good shift and played quite well. I also think, like our manager that our defence played well limiting United to very few efforts at goal. Granted we got done by a great bit of skill and good finish for the second. We all know there is room for improvement in the team but some of the criticism handed out to our players is way over the top and not justified.