A case for the defence

[Weegreenman]

I don’t know about anyone else but I’ve had about enough as I can take watching the likes of Stevenson, Hanlon and Gray.

Ye ye I know they are club legends blah blah but can anyone hand on heart say that they aren’t past their best?

We need better defenders. Surely next season will bring a fresh new look to our defence with at least three new players replacing the current lot.

[supermcginn]

I don’t know about anyone else but I’ve had about enough as I can take watching the likes of Stevenson, Hanlon and Gray.

Ye ye I know they are club legends blah blah but can anyone hand on heart say that they aren’t past their best?

We need better defenders. Surely next season will bring a fresh new look to our defence with at least three new players replacing the current lot.

Couldn't agree more. Time for a big freshen up.

[hfc rd]

It’s been our achilles heal all season.

Our defence isn’t good enough.

[superbam]

Yep. Club legends they are but been beyond past it for too long and we need to address it honestly, and quickly.

[DetroitHibs]

Look at the facts. A team like Hibernian should be challenging for a top four spot every season. How many times have Hanlon, Stevenson and SDG finished in the top four while at Hibs?

[Allant1981]

Look at the facts. A team like Hibernian should be challenging for a top four spot every season. How many times have Hanlon, Stevenson and SDG finished in the top four while at Hibs?

Does that make them bad players?

[MWHIBBIES]

Hanlon was excellent, ridiculous thread. Actually unreal he could be seen to be at fault.

[hhibs]

May be hard for some to admit but our heroes are pretty much done as first choice,sentiment has to be trumped by reality,given that Mcgregor shas till got it.


Efe may be the medium term one signing answer.

[The 90+2]

Does that make them bad players?

Probably not for a team with ambitions to break into the top six.

[sean04]

Stevenson doesn’t stop crosses, any half decent winger would take him to the byline every time he got the ball. Offers nothing going forward, Ronaldo couldn’t score goals with the delivery he puts in, if we have aspirations of being top 4 side we need quality coming into the box

[The 90+2]

Hanlon was excellent, ridiculous thread. Actually unreal he could be seen to be at fault.

I’m not sure how you could say he was excellent when they hardly threatened and when they did they scored two. The only excellent players today was Kamberi and Boyle.

[hibIBZ]

I think I am at this stage now as well. None of them played badly today but we have shipped goals all season. Defensive midfield and the back line really need to be addressed if we are to start challenging for 3rd place

[hibee_girl]

May be hard for some to admit but our heroes are prety much done as first choice,sentiment has to be trumped by reality,given that Mcgregor shas till got it.


Efe may be the medium term one signing answer.

Efe that hasn’t played in nearly a year now?

[brog]

I don’t know about anyone else but I’ve had about enough as I can take watching the likes of Stevenson, Hanlon and Gray.

Ye ye I know they are club legends blah blah but can anyone hand on heart say that they aren’t past their best?

We need better defenders. Surely next season will bring a fresh new look to our defence with at least three new players replacing the current lot.

Before today, when did you last watch Gray?

[MWHIBBIES]

I’m not sure how you could say he was excellent when they hardly threatened and when they did they scored two. The only excellent players today was Kamberi and Boyle.

He was excellent. Neither goal was Hanlon's fault. Pretty awful logic. Hearts scored 2 from 2 chances in the 6-2 game, guess Sauzee wasn't excellent then?

Agreed on Boyle and Kamberi. Whittaker good too.

[Carheenlea]

After the substitutions and we had the fabled Cup Final defence on the pitch, I did feel a warm glow inside.

[truehibernian]

Hanlon was excellent, ridiculous thread. Actually unreal he could be seen to be at fault.

Thought Paul played well today also.

All in all it was a good cup tie and mistakes happened both sides leading to goals. Hibs dominated and played well in long spells. Despite every pundit and their auntie seeing this as an easy home win.

One thing that needs improved upon is concentration levels before half time and full time. There’s a noticeable relaxing in key periods of games regardless of whether we are winning or not. Players switch off a little - comes down to leaders on the park barking orders for me. We need one or two.

[Crab apple]

He was excellent. Neither goal was Hanlon's fault. Pretty awful logic. Hearts scored 2 from 2 chances in the 6-2 game, guess Sauzee wasn't excellent then?

Agreed on Boyle and Kamberi. Whittaker good too.

He was clearly at fault for the first goal as was Porto. Stevenson also culpable for a weak challenge on Shankland.

[The 90+2]

Efe that hasn’t played in nearly a year now?

Probably still got a better turn of pace than Lewis who has looked injured for about a year now.

[hhibs]

Efe that hasn’t played in nearly a year now?

If fit,yes,simple really.If not fit then no,not to hard work out really.

[The 90+2]

He was excellent. Neither goal was Hanlon's fault. Pretty awful logic. Hearts scored 2 from 2 chances in the 6-2 game, guess Sauzee wasn't excellent then?

Agreed on Boyle and Kamberi. Whittaker good too.

I’m not sure how you can describe a defender who had no trouble off attackers all day as excellent. He was alright in possession and made a decent block at one point but it was hardly a commanding performance (‘not that he could have done much better).

[Weegreenman]

Hanlon was excellent, ridiculous thread. Actually unreal he could be seen to be at fault.

Ridiculous aye? I’m no just talking about today’s game, the bigger picture is what I’m on about. Next season. Surely you must concede that the players I’ve mentioned are past their best and that for the team to challenge for top three or four we’ll need better replacements?

[The 90+2]

He was clearly at fault for the first goal as was Porto. Stevenson also culpable for a weak challenge on Shankland.

I think some are being too harsh on the defence for the goal, practically a man down, Allan shat it out a challenge, Hanlons covering, Porto gets drawn to the ball and a well taken goal.

[The 90+2]

Before today, when did you last watch Gray?

I actually thought Gray looked better the longer he went. Which suggests he isn’t finished and just not match sharp. Saying that he is a god so my view is possibly blinkered 😁

[Crab apple]

I think some are being too harsh on the defence for the goal, practically a man down, Allan shat it out a challenge, Hanlons covering, Porto gets drawn to the ball and a well taken goal.

There’s no doubt we’re also suffering from the long term absence of a decent DM as well but the defence needs looked at too.

[Dashing Bob S]

It's no secret that this has to be addressed. It's simply about birth certificates and nobody cheats time forever. Simply heaping scorn on legends for an acknowledged truism is a waste of time. I'm more concerned about Porteous's ankle, given that he and Naismith are the longish term 50% of the back four. Yes, major defensive surgery next season, but in the interim, the way we shore things up here is with a defensive midfielder.

[CMurdoch]

Dundee United scored from their only chances

Goal 1 - Porteous left the back 4 to go to the ball which left a gap for Shankland. Needed to keep the shape.
Goal 2 - Gray instead of kicking the ball into touch tried to play the ball up the line when unsighted and unbalanced. Ball landed at Utd players foot who passed to Appre. Instead of getting goalside Whittaker dived in front of the Utd player to attempt to intercept the ball but misjudged it and was left for dead by Appre who bent the ball into the far corner of the net of the post. Marciano dive ended with him lying on his chest instead of on his side and he didn't get near the ball.
Bad errors by Gray & Whittaker

Stevenson and Hanlon played well at the back.

The 3 forwards played very well

Allan was poor given the amount of ball he had. Needs to keep it simpler a lot of the time.
The midfield desperately needs more legs in it which Slivka and Omeonga can provide.
Hallberg was all in after 85 minutes

[jakedance]

Some of the criticism is a bit harsh but it’s true we should be looking for better options. I’m a big Stevenson fan and he’s a great pro but he couldn’t lace David Murphy’s boots and that’s the kind of standard we should be aspiring too. Same goes for whoever partners Porteous and right back.

[Weegreenman]

Before today, when did you last watch Gray?

I can’t honestly remember but I’ve seen enough of SDG to form an opinion and please don’t get me wrong I love the guy.
He’s a hard tackling hard working player but he has lost any pace he once had. He’s a decent back up but we can’t be reliant on players like Stevenson, Hanlon and Gray anymore.

[jeffers]

He was excellent. Neither goal was Hanlon's fault. Pretty awful logic. Hearts scored 2 from 2 chances in the 6-2 game, guess Sauzee wasn't excellent then?

Agreed on Boyle and Kamberi. Whittaker good too.

We must have been watching a different game. First goal Hanlon is marking Shankland, drifts off him to go into the middle for a challenge he didn’t need to make leaving Stevenson to cover.

[Nicho87]

Spineless again. 19 days we know we don’t have a cdm. But we flirt with going out the Scottish cup because of it. If you know you have an issue in a team you do something about it quick. We piss about, again!

[Weegreenman]

It's no secret that this has to be addressed. It's simply about birth certificates and nobody cheats time forever. Simply heaping scorn on legends for an acknowledged truism is a waste of time. I'm more concerned about Porteous's ankle, given that he and Naismith are the longish term 50% of the back four. Yes, major defensive surgery next season, but in the interim, the way we shore things up here is with a defensive midfielder.

Good post mate, tend to agree with most of that tbh.

[HibbyAndy]

We must have been watching a different game. First goal Hanlon is marking Shankland, drifts off him to go into the middle for a challenge he didn’t need to make leaving Stevenson to cover.

That's how i saw it , Stevenson covering for Hanlon

[Vault Boy]

I was surprised to see McGregor dropped honestly, I thought he'd been playing well.

[hibeerealist]

R
Hanlon was excellent, ridiculous thread. Actually unreal he could be seen to be at fault.


Excellent!!?? What game did you watch?

Have to go back at least two years before I could find a game where I could say he was excellent. He gets by as we have no replacement.

A cup final legend yes, excellent game today, sorry no.

[Weegreenman]

I was surprised to see McGregor dropped honestly, I thought he'd been playing well.

I think most of us were surprised tbf

[emerald green]

One thing that needs improved upon is concentration levels before half time and full time. There’s a noticeable relaxing in key periods of games regardless of whether we are winning or not. Players switch off a little - comes down to leaders on the park barking orders for me. We need one or two.

:agree: Hibs seem to concede far too many goals late in each half. When I saw there was to be 3 minutes added on at the end of the first half I said that's when Utd would score. :rolleyes:

Is it lack of fitness, lack of concentration, bad luck, bad defending and game management, or a combination of any number of these?

[WillieP]

Stevenson doesn’t stop crosses, any half decent winger would take him to the byline every time he got the ball. Offers nothing going forward, Ronaldo couldn’t score goals with the delivery he puts in, if we have aspirations of being top 4 side we need quality coming into the box
Correct.

[The Modfather]

He was excellent. Neither goal was Hanlon's fault. Pretty awful logic. Hearts scored 2 from 2 chances in the 6-2 game, guess Sauzee wasn't excellent then?

Agreed on Boyle and Kamberi. Whittaker good too.

Thought Hanlon was fine today. He wasn’t solely at fault for the first goal but he certainly played his part in losing a soft goal. Didn’t drop back and mark Shankland, nor did he get out to the pass. Stood still hoping to cut out the pass and in then end didn’t do anything to affect the attack at all.

I think it’s easy to defend each of the individual defenders as they’re good players. However I’d not want to take on the challenge of arguing that from Gray, McGregor, Hanlon, Stevenson, Porteous & Naismith you can make a solid defence that doesn’t regularly give away soft goals. Collectively that group doesn’t work.

[Crab apple]

I was surprised to see McGregor dropped honestly, I thought he'd been playing well.

Agreed.

[MartinfaePorty]

Good post mate, tend to agree with most of that tbh.And me. Someone in midfield to break up play and dictate things is key. Would be a bonus if we could get an excellent centre half like Declan Gallagher from Motherwell, but don't think that's likely.

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[The 90+2]

There’s no doubt we’re also suffering from the long term absence of a decent DM as well but the defence needs looked at too.

100%.

[emerald green]

If anyone was at fault for DU's second goal it was Whittaker (who otherwise had a decent game).

[Keith_M]

It’s been our achilles heal all season.

Our defence isn’t good enough.


Sad but true.

Need a massive rebuild

[Onceinawhile]

I’m not sure how you could say he was excellent when they hardly threatened

Why do you think they hardly threatened?

[mentalhibee]

That's how i saw it , Stevenson covering for Hanlon

Hanlon needs to drift over as portoeus goes charging out of position and doesn’t make a challenge.

[Captain Trips]

No matter how we shuffle the pack the answer to better defending lies in the transfer market both in midfield and defence itself.

It has been poor all season.

[Sioux]

We must have been watching a different game. First goal Hanlon is marking Shankland, drifts off him to go into the middle for a challenge he didn’t need to make leaving Stevenson to cover.

Correct. Not for the first time does he get dragged out into no mans land.

[jacomo]

Stevenson doesn’t stop crosses, any half decent winger would take him to the byline every time he got the ball. Offers nothing going forward, Ronaldo couldn’t score goals with the delivery he puts in, if we have aspirations of being top 4 side we need quality coming into the box


This is very familiar. Similar criticisms were made of Lewis when he first became our regular left back. Yet he has convinced many managers since then that he was worthy of his place.

Our big issue is our midfield imo, although it is true that the 2016 hero back line is not getting any younger.

[DetroitHibs]

Does that make them bad players?

No

[Ronniekirk]

I think the New Manager won’t build his team round Sentiment and it probably is now time to plan ahead
But if that’s Porteous injured and out for a few games ,the Cup Heroes are needed this Season and Heck’s players that were brought in to challenge them ,haven’t managed to do so


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[ahibby]

Steven Whittaker to blame for second although Apperre still had a lot to do after being shown the way to our goal. Laxadasical from us and not for the first time.

[brog]

That's how i saw it , Stevenson covering for Hanlon

The 1st thing you learn when setting up a defence is that the full backs should not be behind the last central defender. Naismith stayed static & Louie actually ran back in behind Hanlon. If they hold the line with Hanlon then Shankland is offside. Meanwhile Porto has gone walkabout 5 yards in front of Hanlon.

[WestCoastHibby]

Slight over reaction in here. I’m sure the managers got his ideas.
From what I’ve seen I’d say Stevenson wasn’t too bad to say. And SDG has hardly got much of a season under his belt, but harsh on him.
We will take them on the 28th have faith

[J-C]

Weird thread criticising an ageing defence when it was the youngster Porteous who moved out of position towards the ball and didn't get a tackle in, the ball was passed into the space left by Porteous, not really that much anyone else could do. Their 2nd was as good a goal as Boyle's, maybe a bit slow by Rocky but we'd have been raving about that goal if one of our players had scored it. That was the only 2 shots they had on target all game, get a grip ffs.

[Weegreenman]

Weird thread criticising an ageing defence when it was the youngster Porteous who moved out of position towards the ball and didn't get a tackle in, the ball was passed into the space left by Porteous, not really that much anyone else could do. Their 2nd was as good a goal as Boyle's, maybe a bit slow by Rocky but we'd have been raving about that goal if one of our players had scored it. That was the only 2 shots they had on target all game, get a grip ffs.

It’s not just today’s game we’re talking about though, do keep up.

[Weegreenman]

Slight over reaction in here. I’m sure the managers got his ideas.
From what I’ve seen I’d say Stevenson wasn’t too bad to say. And SDG has hardly got much of a season under his belt, but harsh on him.
We will take them on the 28th have faith

So you are happy to go with the same old faces next season again ? I’m not.

[ahibby]

Weird thread criticising an ageing defence when it was the youngster Porteous who moved out of position towards the ball and didn't get a tackle in, the ball was passed into the space left by Porteous, not really that much anyone else could do. Their 2nd was as good a goal as Boyle's, maybe a bit slow by Rocky but we'd have been raving about that goal if one of our players had scored it. That was the only 2 shots they had on target all game, get a grip ffs.

U need to watch Whittaker at their second again. That was embarrasing.

[WeeRussell]

U need to watch Whittaker at their second again. That was embarrasing.

Yep however good he was generally today, it was a brutal attempt at stopping the boy in the touch line. Boy turned him without even needing to turn!

Lovely finish at the end of it though.

[Bronson]

Have to say I’m inclined to agree with the OP. Stevenson and Hanlon have been pretty dire all season and Gray isn’t the player he was. While naismith has been okay for the most-part, I don’t really want us to sign him permanently, I’m not a massive fan. Big summer rebuild required in defence for sure.

With that being said, I would keep Hanlon, Stevenson and Gray in the squad as rotation options. I think it’s important to have guys like that around the club, we just need better first choice replacements.

[The 90+2]

Why do you think they hardly threatened?

Because they are quite ***** and we controlled the game? Unfortunately we went missing and lost concentration a couple of times.

[J-C]

It’s not just today’s game we’re talking about though, do keep up.


Do you ever have a good thing to say, yes you've started thread praising Boyle but TBH it would be impossible to slag him off right now but the constant negativity is getting very tiring.

[greenlex]

It probably does need freshened up but midfield is still the bigger problem.

[Pretty Boy]

You can't cheat time. It catches up with all of us eventually.

[B.H.F.C]

It probably does need freshened up but midfield is still the bigger problem.

Midfield is easier to fix IMO. One signing massively improves us.

For me, we pretty much need a whole defence though.

[Weegreenman]

Do you ever have a good thing to say, yes you've started thread praising Boyle but TBH it would be impossible to slag him off right now but the constant negativity is getting very tiring.

Ha ha, I think you need to calm doon pal. You start off by contradicting yourself by asking if I ever have a good word to say and then go on to admit that I started the Martin Boyle thread 😂😂😂 Ok I’ll throw you a bone. I’m saying we need better players for next season, that’s no negative it’s called being realistic. If you don’t agree, let’s hear why but don’t give me this negativity *****. Let’s be having your argument. Or maybe you don’t have one and don’t really have anything to say which if that is the case, best to just jog on.

[J-C]

Ha ha, I think you need to calm doon pal. You start off by contradicting yourself by asking if I ever have a good word to say and then go on to admit that I started the Martin Boyle thread 😂😂😂 Ok I’ll throw you a bone. I’m saying we need better players for next season, that’s no negative it’s called being realistic. If you don’t agree, let’s hear why but don’t give me this negativity *****. Let’s be having your argument. Or maybe you don’t have one and don’t really have anything to say which if that is the case, best to just jog on.


Our biggest problem has been almost zero defensive midfielders, we have Allan, and Mallan who are attack minded, Slivka and Hallberg who try but are found out when they try to sit deep and help out the defence and Whitaker who tried his hardest today but at 35, his best years have long gone. We got rid of 2 DM's and never replaced them, plus we've struggled with pace, both in the midfield and in defence. Gray and Daz were given long contracts because they are expecting to wind things down and go into coaching, Hanlon has only turned 30 with Lewis only 32, unfortunately our last manager brought in James from the conference, Jackson a bench player from lower half Championship. We have Porteous but unfortunately recently he's showing his impetuous side, with a few mistakes and reckless challenges, he's still a year or so to go till he's at a level we really need.

Yes we need to look at new blood for our ageing defence but the midfield has at times been a shambles, with zero cover for the defenders. We again need an overhaul through the spine of the team and in other key areas but unlike other teams we seem to have no strategy with little cover or up and coming players being brought in. Once gain we need to see what a new manager can do now and in the summer.


Oh by the way I am calm and I'd appreciate the comments in your reply to less personal and cheeky, so less of the jog on pi sh.

[Weegreenman]

Our biggest problem has been almost zero defensive midfielders, we have Allan, and Mallan who are attack minded, Slivka and Hallberg who try but are found out when they try to sit deep and help out the defence and Whitaker who tried his hardest today but at 35, his best years have long gone. We got rid of 2 DM's and never replaced them, plus we've struggled with pace, both in the midfield and in defence. Gray and Daz were given long contracts because they are expecting to wind things down and go into coaching, Hanlon has only turned 30 with Lewis only 32, unfortunately our last manager brought in James from the conference, Jackson a bench player from lower half Championship. We have Porteous but unfortunately recently he's showing his impetuous side, with a few mistakes and reckless challenges, he's still a year or so to go till he's at a level we really need.

Yes we need to look at new blood for our ageing defence but the midfield has at times been a shambles, with zero cover for the defenders. We again need an overhaul through the spine of the team and in other key areas but unlike other teams we seem to have no strategy with little cover or up and coming players being brought in. Once gain we need to see what a new manager can do now and in the summer.


Oh by the way I am calm and I'd appreciate the comments in your reply to less personal and cheeky, so less of the jog on pi sh.

Ok I’ll apologise for the jog on comment but you have to understand if you are going to attack me with comments then I should have the right to do the same no?
The best thing about your reply is actually you seem to agree with my original post ha ha.
Pretty decent reply from you if I’m being honest and I agree with everything you have written especially regards the DM. It doesn’t change the fact that we need better defenders.

[hibbysam]

First goal today came from having no defensive Midfielder, too easy to get the ball into feet which resulted in Porteous rushing out (happened 5/6 times) and from there we were all over the place. Whittaker should’ve been that person today, but it was clear he was told to be more mobile rather than just sit and contain, which he did very well until the second goal.

Second goal obviously came from a poor decision from Whitts, and to a lesser extent Gray for a poor clearance.

Hanlon is taking a beating but I thought he was fairly good, yet again, and has been for a fair number of games now. He even started the set up to the second goal today. It’s easy to lose goals and just automatically blame the back 4, without looking at the real reason we conceded.

[steviehibsleith]

The amount of goals we concede gains teams when we have more defenders behind the ball than attacking players shows me the issue isn’t midfield.
Yet again today even the commentators were stating how many goals we concede .
As individuals they are ok but they just do not defend as a unit.

[angus hibby]

I don’t know about anyone else but I’ve had about enough as I can take watching the likes of Stevenson, Hanlon and Gray.

Ye ye I know they are club legends blah blah but can anyone hand on heart say that they aren’t past their best?

We need better defenders. Surely next season will bring a fresh new look to our defence with at least three new players replacing the current lot.

No one is forcing you to come and watch them!

Gray hasn’t played for god knows how long so good of you to right him off after 45 minutes today. Hanlon & Stevenson are absolutely fine for us. Outwith Rangers/Celtic, give me the names of CH’s and LB’s who are better than those two in the league?

[J-C]

Ok I’ll apologise for the jog on comment but you have to understand if you are going to attack me with comments then I should have the right to do the same no?
The best thing about your reply is actually you seem to agree with my original post ha ha.
Pretty decent reply from you if I’m being honest and I agree with everything you have written especially regards the DM. It doesn’t change the fact that we need better defenders.


My point being is, yes they are getting older but the last 2 managers have not brought in the new players to take over and the last one left us with an average team, 2 big windows for us.

I just don't see the point in continually slagging off the players when in reality the last 2 managers should have done better to make the transition easier. Do we have a young FB at the club? Mackie was punted on loan after his big mistake against Rangers with McPake saying he's been very happy with him at Dundee and Porteous is the only one who is pushing for that regular starting spot.

In the 1st half today, Whittaker played as DM and he was strolling the game with the Dundee U players hardly getting near goal, the team looked fairly comfortable until Porteous left his position to challenge for the ball and it was played into the space he left, a rookie mistake which he's been doing a fair bit recently. Understandably Whittaker tired in the 2nd half and that's where their 2nd goal came from, so we can see exactly where the team needs strengthened, a solid DM and the addition of Omeonga will add much needed energy.

[brog]

It’s not just today’s game we’re talking about though, do keep up.

Ryan, who I greatly admire, has made more significant errors this season than any others in our back 4.

[brog]

My point being is, yes they are getting older but the last 2 managers have not brought in the new players to take over and the last one left us with an average team, 2 big windows for us.

I just don't see the point in continually slagging off the players when in reality the last 2 managers should have done better to make the transition easier. Do we have a young FB at the club? Mackie was punted on loan after his big mistake against Rangers with McPake saying he's been very happy with him at Dundee and Porteous is the only one who is pushing for that regular starting spot.

In the 1st half today, Whittaker played as DM and he was strolling the game with the Dundee U players hardly getting near goal, the team looked fairly comfortable until Porteous left his position to challenge for the ball and it was played into the space he left, a rookie mistake which he's been doing a fair bit recently. Understandably Whittaker tired in the 2nd half and that's where their 2nd goal came from, so we can see exactly where the team needs strengthened, a solid DM and the addition of Omeonga will add much needed energy.

As good a summary as I've seen.

[lyonhibs]

I'm looking forward to seeing when we get in 3 players that are definitively better than those 3, put it that way. Like players that rival players with various hundreds of first team games just grow on trees. I suspect there might be a reason beyond sentimentality that they are still all regular starters when fit.

Time shall tell, but in 3-5 years when they've all retired, will we all be saying "these 3 new guys are a definite upgrade on Hanlon, Stevenson and Gray". I highly, highly doubt it.

[JimBHibees]

I'm looking forward to seeing when we get in 3 players that are definitively better than those 3, put it that way. Like players that rival players with various hundreds of first team games just grow on trees. I suspect there might be a reason beyond sentimentality that they are still all regular starters when fit.

Time shall tell, but in 3-5 years when they've all retired, will we all be saying "these 3 new guys are a definite upgrade on Hanlon, Stevenson and Gray". I highly, highly doubt it.

Don't get the criticism as all when fit would still be starters in the team at present. Here is an idea get a midfield in front of them that has a degree of defensive shape and then see how it goes.

[Brightside]

We dont defend well as a team. Hopefully Stephan will make a difference with that extra energy in midfield.

[Captain Trips]

A lack of help from midfield has contributed to our goals against column but when called upon even if we had a quality midfielder the guys will still be asked to defend and tbbh I think that all of them have been found wanting on several occasions.

[HendoDelivered]

I don’t know about anyone else but I’ve had about enough as I can take watching the likes of Stevenson, Hanlon and Gray.

Ye ye I know they are club legends blah blah but can anyone hand on heart say that they aren’t past their best?

We need better defenders. Surely next season will bring a fresh new look to our defence with at least three new players replacing the current lot.

Because they were part of the Scottish Cup winning side, a lot of people will disagree with you, sadly.

[Smartie]

If we had those 4 playing every week with a decent DM in front of them we’d be 3rd quite comfortably.

The defence is not our problem. If you play in defence every week you’re going to give the odd goal away, the same as Doidge will miss chances and Jack Ross will get his line-up wrong.

[The Modfather]

If we had those 4 playing every week with a decent DM in front of them we’d be 3rd quite comfortably.

The defence is not our problem. If you play in defence every week you’re going to give the odd goal away, the same as Doidge will miss chances and Jack Ross will get his line-up wrong.

While Stevenson, Hanlon, McGregor & Gray have served us well, collectively they have always had a tendency to concede soft goals going back to the time in the championship. With the best midfield we had in decades in front of them we still didn’t finish 3rd, so I think it’s a bit over the top to say we would be comfortably 3rd.

A proper midfield in front of them and we’ll improve defensively, but I don’t know how we lose that softness that creeps in all too often and could be the difference between a good season like 4th, and an excellent season like finishing 3rd.

[Smartie]

While Stevenson, Hanlon, McGregor & Gray have served us well, collectively they have always had a tendency to concede soft goals going back to the time in the championship. With the best midfield we had in decades in front of them we still didn’t finish 3rd, so I think it’s a bit over the top to say we would be comfortably 3rd.

A proper midfield in front of them and we’ll improve defensively, but I don’t know how we lose that softness that creeps in all too often and could be the difference between a good season like 4th, and an excellent season like finishing 3rd.

I think the 4 of them are better players than they were during the Championship days and have had time to work on an understanding to form a stronger unit.

By saying we’d be 3rd, all I’m saying is that I think we’d be well ahead of an underperforming Aberdeen and half-decent Motherwell (but still miles behind the OF). When we finished 4th a couple of seasons ago we were overcoming an average start to the season and competing with decent Rangers and Aberdeen sides.

I honestly think that Allan/ Boyle/ Kamberi/ Doidge are a solid unit and that the defence is decent. It’s the bit in between that needs work, Omeonga will help.

[MWHIBBIES]

My point being is, yes they are getting older but the last 2 managers have not brought in the new players to take over and the last one left us with an average team, 2 big windows for us.

I just don't see the point in continually slagging off the players when in reality the last 2 managers should have done better to make the transition easier. Do we have a young FB at the club? Mackie was punted on loan after his big mistake against Rangers with McPake saying he's been very happy with him at Dundee and Porteous is the only one who is pushing for that regular starting spot.

In the 1st half today, Whittaker played as DM and he was strolling the game with the Dundee U players hardly getting near goal, the team looked fairly comfortable until Porteous left his position to challenge for the ball and it was played into the space he left, a rookie mistake which he's been doing a fair bit recently. Understandably Whittaker tired in the 2nd half and that's where their 2nd goal came from, so we can see exactly where the team needs strengthened, a solid DM and the addition of Omeonga will add much needed energy.

Spot on

[Sammy7nil]

The amount of goals we concede gains teams when we have more defenders behind the ball than attacking players shows me the issue isn’t midfield.
Yet again today even the commentators were stating how many goals we concede .
As individuals they are ok but they just do not defend as a unit.

I have said that for about 18 months on paper everyone is fine but together on the pitch it does not work. Look at St J and Ross County games this season for the evidence.