St Johnstone to start giving Old Firm THREE stands at McDairmid

[Carheenlea]

It’s a shame they have to do this, but with such a poor home support it makes economic sense I suppose, but I can’t think of anything worse than a home game with three sides Rangers or Celtic. Can’t see the residents of Perth being too enamoured with hoards of Old Firm fans descending on their city for a mass jolly a few times a season.

https://perthstjohnstonefc.co.uk/news/post/club-statement-celtic-and-rangers-matches

[Smartie]

It's everything that's wrong with football in this country that our top level teams feel the need to do this.

Pitiful.

[Kojock]

If the extra income means they will finish above Hear7s then I’m all for it. 😂

[CraigHibee]

They struggle to fill their stadium so it makes financial sense for them, shame they are bowing down to that mob though

[Jim44]

Hey, Ugly Sisters, we want to be your bitch. Like a lot of the other minnows, we can’t live without you. Carry on abusing us, we don’t even mind your sectarian hatred. :rolleyes:

[wookie70]

They only average about 2000 home fans so it probably makes sense. They have done everything they can with amazing family deals etc while maintaining brilliant league positions and actually playing decent football. They may as well make a few extra quid. Sad but the generations of potential St J kids obviously chose the Uglies over their local team.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

It's up to them.

[MWHIBBIES]

Livi already do it and we just lost to them. Glad Hibs will never do it but these daft tinpot clubs need it.

[Jones28]

It’s a shame they have to do this, but with such a poor home support it makes economic sense I suppose, but I can’t think of anything worse than a home game with three sides Rangers or Celtic. Can’t see the residents of Perth being too enamoured with hoards of Old Firm fans descending on their city for a mass jolly a few times a season.

https://perthstjohnstonefc.co.uk/news/post/club-statement-celtic-and-rangers-matches

Maybe if the residents of Perth went along to see their team every once and a while they wouldn’t have to.

[Steven79]

They only average about 2000 home fans so it probably makes sense. They have done everything they can with amazing family deals etc while maintaining brilliant league positions and actually playing decent football. They may as well make a few extra quid. Sad but the generations of potential St J kids obviously chose the Uglies over their local team.

They only had 1400 fans against Rangers at the last home games so while on one hand they can easily fit all the home fans in one stand I can see them having even less home fans for the next game against Rangers as I for one wouldn't entertain a home game where that lot are given 3 stands and they may make a short term gain out of it but long term...

[Mick O'Rourke]

In the days before all seater stadiums and when most fans paid at the gate,these two Glasgow clubs vastly outnumbered most home supports.
Some clubs with average gates around say 5.000 would swell three or four times that against those 2 depending on stadium size.
Money talks

[Peevemor]

In the days before all seater stadiums and when most fans paid at the gate,these two Glasgow clubs vastly outnumbered many home supports.
Some clubs with average gates around say 5.000 would swell three or four times that depending on stadium size.
Money talksIncluding us.

[Ozyhibby]

Maybe if the residents of Perth went along to see their team every once and a while they wouldn’t have to.

There are only about 45k people in Perth? They are getting a bigger percentage of the population of Perth than we are managing in Edinburgh I imagine.


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[Mick O'Rourke]

Including us.
Aye

[Sir David Gray]

Embarrassing.

Seeing stuff like this is one of the reasons why I'd prefer if teams like this got relegated instead of Hearts.

Imagine being a top division team and giving 75% of your stadium's capacity over to the fans of your opponents. Not only that but for the few fans that actually do come out and support them, guess what? They'll relocate their season ticket seat.

I hope we get the likes of St Johnstone, Livingston and Hamilton down to the Championship and replace them with the likes of Dundee Utd, Dundee and Dunfermline.

[we are hibs]

Selling their soul. All st.johnstone fans will be in their main stand which is the one the tv camera is in. So that will be the whole world only seeing 3 stands full of celtic and rangers fans for an apparent away game. horrific advert for scottish football.

[neil7908]

Everything wrong with Scottish football in a nutshell. Why even bother showing up?

[hibbysam]

Embarrassing.

Seeing stuff like this is one of the reasons why I'd prefer if teams like this got relegated instead of Hearts.

Imagine being a top division team and giving 75% of your stadium's capacity over to the fans of your opponents. Not only that but for the few fans that actually do come out and support them, guess what? They'll relocate their season ticket seat.

I hope we get the likes of St Johnstone, Livingston and Hamilton down to the Championship and replace them with the likes of Dundee Utd, Dundee and Dunfermline.

Pretty sure Dundee United gave the old firm 3 out of the 5 stands, Dunfermline 2 out of 4 (plus maybe some of the main stand??).

Just shows you that regardless of how low you make the prices, people just won’t come, which totally disregards the argument from some on here to offer massively reduced family deals and expect it’ll increase attendances so much to make it worth our while.

[CMurdoch]

A pragmatic approach from those running their club.
They have a small fan base and barely enough cash to operate in the top league.
Can't afford to look a gift horse in the mouth.

At least they have 4 stands and a grass pitch.

[Bronson]

Is this anything new? I was under the impression they always got 3 stands at st johnstone, thought killie did it on occasion too (thinking of the game when rangers pumped them about 6-0 at rugby park to win the league in about 2010(ish).

It’s a shame, but better than seats lying empty. That’s a bigger shame and looks awful on tv.

[CMurdoch]

Livi already do it and we just lost to them. Glad Hibs will never do it but these daft tinpot clubs need it.

In that case you will be happy with the supporters of the two big Glasgow teams seeing Hibs in the same light.

[easty]

Is it better for St Johnstone football club to have a stadium of empty seats or a stadium full of opposition fans?

Seems like a good move to me. Bringing in new players and paying better wages takes more money. This will give them more money.

I’d hate Hibs to do it, but fortunately we don’t have to.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Is it better for St Johnstone football club to have a stadium of empty seats or a stadium full of opposition fans?

Seems like a good move to me. Bringing in new players and paying better wages takes more money. This will give them more money.

I’d hate Hibs to do it, but fortunately we don’t have to.

You're saying that from the outside in mate.
Imagine that if you're 20 years deep into a season ticket at St Johnstone.
I'd feel embarrassed, enraged and completely at odds with the club I love

[MWHIBBIES]

In that case you will be happy with the supporters of the two big Glasgow teams seeing Hibs in the same light.

Can't really imagine a world in which I care what those bigots think. Same as Livi and Saints fans don't care what I think.

[Since452]

St Johnsone down, Dunfermline up please

[Hibbyradge]

I'd rather Scottish football stadiums were full than empty, tbh.

In the 70s, Hibs fans were often outnumbered by Rantic fans.

I remember being at Easter Road in 1974 against Celtic and there were about 50000 at the game.

We were getting around 10k against most teams.

[The 90+2]

You're saying that from the outside in mate.
Imagine that if you're 20 years deep into a season ticket at St Johnstone.
I'd feel embarrassed, enraged and completely at odds with the club I love

They’ve had plenty chances and given plenty initiatives to try keep their support happy. In that time check the league places Saints have had, Scottish Cup wins etc. If their board want to take the money of the old firm fans, half probably come from Perth and around as glory hunting *******s and if it’s to help stay in the league with the money I’m not sure their support will grumble, they should trust the board that’s kept them up so long and delivered what they have.

[The 90+2]

St Johnsone down, Dunfermline up please

Then it would be three stands of glory hunting fifer ****s when they play Celtic or the huns 😂😂

[stoneyburn hibs]

They’ve had plenty chances and given plenty initiatives to try keep their support happy. In that time check the league places Saints have had, Scottish Cup wins etc. If their board want to take the money of the old firm fans, half probably come from Perth and around as glory hunting *******s and if it’s to help stay in the league with the money I’m not sure their support will grumble, they should trust the board that’s kept them up so long and delivered what they have.

Terrible blinkered reply.

[The 90+2]

Terrible blinkered reply.

Blinkered towards what?

Would I want it at Easter Road? God know, I wish their allocation got cut and we had enough fans to come out to make that happen.

Do I understand St Johnstone could get relegated this year and the difference could be a bunch of bigots in seats for season ticket holders, course I do.

[jgl07]

Maybe the Scottish Premiership should be taken out and shot.

A new League could then be formed without Rangers or Sevco.

[The 90+2]

Maybe the Scottish Premiership should be taken out and shot.

A new League could then be formed without Rangers or Sevco.

Can Celtic bolt to the loi too if that’s the case? I would be up for that. No point in having one of the bigots still hear wiping the floor of the rest since they’ve done since their foundation and almost killed our club 👍

[Booker5time]

Terrible blinkered reply.

Maybe but what do some people expect Teams like St Johnstone, Hamilton, Livingston to do, when most of Scotland support only two teams and coming from small towns. It's only the city clubs who are able to draw 5 figures crowds. Only way theis clubs crowds are going to grow any bigger is if there towns where to double in size and even then I doubt they would get that much more.

End of the day Scotland only got 5 million people, Not all teams are going to have big home followings .

[stoneyburn hibs]

Blinkered towards what?

Would I want it at Easter Road? God know, I wish their allocation got cut and we had enough fans to come out to make that happen.

Do I understand St Johnstone could get relegated this year and the difference could be a bunch of bigots in seats for season ticket holders, course I do.

St Johnstone have a hardcore support and not many others regarding their attendance at home. It's basically what you see is what you get. I'd wager that at least 90% of their home support are season ticket holders.
They won't want this sell out.

[KWJ]

Everything wrong with Scottish football in a nutshell. Why even bother showing up?

Eeeeeeh, cos they can still win the match?

[The 90+2]

St Johnstone have a hardcore support and not many others regarding their attendance at home. It's basically what you see is what you get. I'd wager that at least 90% of their home support are season ticket holders.
They won't want this sell out.

They’ve already told the season ticket holders over the last three years if things don’t improve attendance wise they will have to pander to them, financially they owe it to the whole club when they could go down at any time, like they looked like in October. I’m sure their hardcore supporters want to play top level instead of being dragged into a Falkirk or Raith situation, but unlike them, they’ve a board they should trust because they’ve done hundreds for them and the size of the club they are.

Should they go down gracefully with a minor support and a lot less money or should they give themselves every financial chance of getting up the league or get back up?

Then you’ve got the selling the game to Scottish football and unfortunately it looks better when trying to get the game a better deal in the future with full stands.

Then you will get complaints about the **** money we get from tv, you think companies want to pay for two men and their sheep?

[NAE NOOKIE]

You can't really blame them, their average home crowds are pitiful and like Hamilton, Livingstone and the like you sometimes wonder how the hell they manage to stay full time. Look at the wages we pay, probably around £2000 to £3000 at most per week and that's on average gates of 14 to 17 thousand ... how the hell do these clubs even manage to pay players £500 a week after costs on gates of 3 or 4 thousand?

But that's Scottish football's curse, as another poster alluded to. Half the football fans in this country follow Celtic and Rangers* and all but 5 of the remaining clubs come from towns with populations of less than 100,000 people ... it's nothing short of miraculous that we have the number of full time clubs we do.

* I would give my right arm to get a sneaky peek at their respective supporter data bases to see just what proportion of the postcodes actually contain the letter 'G' so we could all get a better idea of just how bad glory hunting is in this country. I'm willing to bet that even if you excluded the folk living outwith Glasgow but born there you could still easily shave a good 15,000 off both their average attendances.

[givescotlandfreedom]

Bit of a dig at their own ST holders who don't want to give up their seats. These guys are the lifeblood of the club, dangerous people to upset.

[Captain Trips]

I understand why St J will do it but the other side of it I will have to listen to the gloating of you need Sevco or Celtic to fill your grounds yadda yadda bore bore. You would all die without us etc etc.

[CB_NO3]

Bit of a dig at their own ST holders who don't want to give up their seats. These guys are the lifeblood of the club, dangerous people to upset.

That's the problem. They are not the lifeblood of the club. The most they have managed at home this season is 2400. So it makes sense giving the old firm 8000 each as pathetic as it sounds. Having a minimum of 24k old firm fans a season will be the lifeblood of the club.

[Phil MaGlass]

What a great thread, calling them a tinpot club and wishing them to go down, its clubs like St.J we regularly struggle against, but our UBER fans think they are tinpot, fantastic, didnt we just get our erses handed to us by Livi and Ross County recently and have only actually beaten St.J 4 times in the last 15 games. They have won 5 .

[Yorkshire HFC]

In the days before all seater stadiums and when most fans paid at the gate,these two Glasgow clubs vastly outnumbered most home supports.
Some clubs with average gates around say 5.000 would swell three or four times that against those 2 depending on stadium size.
Money talks

You're talking about Hibs - in the 70s and 80s we would generally get 4 - 5k at Easter Road for Dundee, Partick etc. and then 20k for Old Firm games.

[Onion]

It's everything that's wrong with football in this country that our top level teams feel the need to do this.

Pitiful.

It's how teams like Livingston, brutal hammer-throwers with a rigged pitch, managed to survive and thrive. It's the OF, Hibs and Hearts that keep them in the top division.

[Ozyhibby]

The problem we have is Scotland is a small country. In the SPFL premier league we have two teams who have English premiership level crowds, three who have Championship level crowds, 4 who would be league 1, maybe 2 level and there who would be def league 2 level, maybe non league in England. And they all have to compete with each other weekly.


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[Pretty Boy]

St Johnstone just don't have that many fans. Outside the big cities no one does these days, even Dundee and Dundee Utd fall into that bracket. Ourselves, Hearts and Aberdeen are realistically the only 3 clubs outside of Glasgow who can pull in 10K+ fans every week. For some clubs even half or a 3rd of that number is fantasy land stuff.

The days of people supporting their local club have gone. Celtic and Rangers are a huge vacuum that sucks in support from all over Scotland. I'd wager there are as almost as many Celtic fans in Dundee as there are supporters of the local clubs. Swap Celtic for Rangers and it's probably not far off being the same in Aberdeen. There's almost certainly more buses heading for Celtic and Rangers games from Edinburgh every week than there is heading to watch whatever one of Hibs and Hearts are away.

St Johnstone giving Celtic and Rangers 3 stands is a symptom of the problem not a cause of it. There is no solution to it. Two teams who have been dominant for most of their histories and a complete duopoly for the best part of 40 years in the league as well as easy access to football on TV has killed the idea of supporting your local team.

[jacomo]

Bit of a dig at their own ST holders who don't want to give up their seats. These guys are the lifeblood of the club, dangerous people to upset.


I think they are imploring ST holders to see the bigger picture.

[neil7908]

That's the problem. They are not the lifeblood of the club. The most they have managed at home this season is 2400. So it makes sense giving the old firm 8000 each as pathetic as it sounds. Having a minimum of 24k old firm fans a season will be the lifeblood of the club.

Problem is that it becomes a vicious cycle. This will likely drive more Saints fans away as effectively they are making this a Sevco/Celtic home game in Perth.

I'd be raging if Hibs did this and no chance I'd be coughing up £28. Your also handing the opposition a huge advantage. Football is about winning games and Saints are handing the opposition a huge boost before a ball is even kicked.

I understand on a short term basis why this happens but that's Scottish football in a nutshell - no thought for the medium, let alone long term.

The rest of Scottish football needs to understand that they hold the power. What would the OF do without the other 10 teams in the SPL - play each other 36 times a year? England doesn't want them, they have no where else to go.

In reality this is an appalling, anti sporting gesture that has sadly become normalised up here and is symptomatic of everything wrong with our game. Unfortunately I think things will have to get a lot worse before they get better.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

I think they are imploring ST holders to see the bigger picture.

Perhaps they are getting to see what the implications are if they don't do this. As much as it sounds unpalatable, it has to be seen from their perspective not hours.

[danhibees1875]

Eeeeeeh, cos they can still win the match?

Exactly.

Livi hand over that to the OF. They're also outnumbered by hearts, Aberdeen, and us every home game.

That money has allowed them to attract and retain a better quality of player and their home record recently suggests they don't suffer much from there being more away fans.

[Brightside]

It's everything that's wrong with football in this country that our top level teams feel the need to do this.

Pitiful.

They need the income. The problem is far too many teams in Scotland. And people in Perth supporting teams outside Perth.

[Keith_M]

I'm not sure if I imagined this (it was a long time ago) but didn't they used to have crowds of 4-5,000 when they first moved to McDiarmid Park, even in Division One?

Where did they all go?

[Smartie]

Saints are a well run club who have never been in financial trouble.

They don't need to do this, they are choosing to.

St Johnstone have always managed to cut their cloth accordingly, even when many clubs around them were unable or unwilling to.

If you were a kid in Perth, why would you choose your local Quisling FC rather than follow the OF?

This is a vicious kick in the teeth to St Johnstone's own, most loyal fans.

[hibs#1]

Part of the problem was forcing clubs into having 10000 all seater stadiums in the first place.

I understand the pros and cons for clubs giving out extra tickets to the old firm, as others have said the draw of rangers and Celtic in Scotland is huge. I live in Stirling and there are several buses running from here every week for both clubs plus on top of that the armchair fans must 90% of the population at least.

[One Day]

It would be interesting to find out exactly how much more profit they will make each game

[Sir David Gray]

Looking at a St Johnstone forum, the feelings seem to be generally in favour of this move so just let them get on with it.

One thing that doesn't seem to be getting mentioned is there must be an increase in police and steward costs as a result of this move so any increase in ticket sales will be negated somewhat with these costs.

[Billy Whizz]

It would be interesting to find out exactly how much more profit they will make each game

Around £50k per game

[Keith_M]

Part of the problem was forcing clubs into having 10000 all seater stadiums in the first place.


:agree:

That's especially highlighted at grounds like Livingston's, where the stands behind the goals (North and South) were added purely for the numbers, with no thought to the Fans.

There are literally no turnstyles, snack bars, toilets or dedicated exits... and everybody has to use the facilities at the nearest corner of the previously existing East Stand.

[Pretty Boy]

Around £50k per game

So 4 visits from Rangers and Celtic in a good year could be worth 3-4 players for a season. No brainer when put like that and you think with your head rather than your heart.

[Brightside]

Saints are a well run club who have never been in financial trouble.

They don't need to do this, they are choosing to.

St Johnstone have always managed to cut their cloth accordingly, even when many clubs around them were unable or unwilling to.

If you were a kid in Perth, why would you choose your local Quisling FC rather than follow the OF?

This is a vicious kick in the teeth to St Johnstone's own, most loyal fans.

I find anyone supporting the old firm outside of Glasgow weird tbh. There is no reason for it all unless it’s a family thing, and even then it’s weird. Support your local team from grassroots to top level.

[.Sean.]

What is it with every town and city in the country being filled with gloryhunting bigots? Down south cities like Newcastle or Leeds or Nottingham etc all support their local teams. What are these glue bags missing in their sad wee lives that they cling onto bigoted coat tails from a place they’re no even from. Sad as ****

[Pretty Boy]

I find anyone supporting the old firm outside of Glasgow weird tbh. There is no reason for it all unless it’s a family thing, and even then it’s weird. Support your local team from grassroots to top level.

I agree, I don't get it.

It's not just a Scottish football issue. The likes of Arsenal, Liverpool and Man Utd have more fans in Abuja and Seoul than they do in their home cities. Where is the joy in following a team that you never see except on a TV screen? It's just so plastic.

[Bristolhibby]

They only average about 2000 home fans so it probably makes sense. They have done everything they can with amazing family deals etc while maintaining brilliant league positions and actually playing decent football. They may as well make a few extra quid. Sad but the generations of potential St J kids obviously chose the Uglies over their local team.

Not being funny, but 2000 fans isn’t sustainable and should not be in the Premiership.

I’m ready for the “as long as they are doing the business on the park then they have earned it”, but how can they afford to even keep the lights on with 2000 fans every 2 weeks?

J

[bigwheel]

Not being funny, but 2000 fans isn’t sustainable and should not be in the Premiership.

I’m ready for the “as long as they are doing the business on the park then they have earned it”, but how can they afford to even keep the lights on with 2000 fans every 2 weeks?

J

They’ve no debt...so they are managing to balance the books - they do it by paying 500-600 quid a week to many of their players.. if they get enough points, then they deserve to be in the league. As long as they aren’t racking up big debts - fair play to them..

[Sir David Gray]

Not being funny, but 2000 fans isn’t sustainable and should not be in the Premiership.

I’m ready for the “as long as they are doing the business on the park then they have earned it”, but how can they afford to even keep the lights on with 2000 fans every 2 weeks?

J

There are only 6 clubs in the whole country with an average attendance of much more than 5,000 fans.

[Billy Whizz]

There are only 6 clubs in the whole country with an average attendance of much more than 5,000 fans.

That’s because some of our potentially bigger clubs are in lower leagues

[Jones28]

There are only about 45k people in Perth? They are getting a bigger percentage of the population of Perth than we are managing in Edinburgh I imagine.


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Edinburgh is 2 team city with circa 500k. So if you split it down the middle for arguments sake it would be 250,000 for each team.

Average attendance for us last year was 16,870 - so roughly 6.5%.

Saints had an average attendance of 3938, so nearer 10% of Perth’s population but those figures are skewed by old firm visits that almost double the attendance which isn’t really comparable imo. They only just managed 1000 a couple of weeks ago which is pathetic.

[Sir David Gray]

That’s because some of our potentially bigger clubs are in lower leagues

Other than the 6 that do, I can't think of many clubs that could get an average of at least 6,000 per game.

Possibly Dundee and Dunfermline but that's about it.

[Onion]

Not being funny, but 2000 fans isn’t sustainable and should not be in the Premiership.

I’m ready for the “as long as they are doing the business on the park then they have earned it”, but how can they afford to even keep the lights on with 2000 fans every 2 weeks?

J

Biggest problem with smaller clubs opening up stands for the OF is that they start to rely on that extra income to run their clubs - higher wages, bigger overheads. So when it comes to voting for changes that could help the product in Scotland eg fewer games or playing each team twice a season, they’re unable and unwilling to support change. The likes of Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen effectively get shafted by both ends of the league who want things to remain just the way they are !

[Billy Whizz]

Other than the 6 that do, I can't think of many clubs that could get an average of at least 6,000 per game.

Possibly Dundee and Dunfermline but that's about it.

Dundee Utd and possibly Falkirk, they would have much bigger home and away fans than, County, St Johnstone, Livvi and Hamilton
Partick Thistle in the Premiership, would average this as well

[Jonny1875]

I think some Hibs fans really need to look at what they are saying here about St Johnstone.
We rarely sell out our own stadium, even against the OF. Usually there's about 25% of Hibs end seats free and we are supposedly one of the big three outside of the OF.
St Johnstone also for their budget have been just as successful as us in recent years, we haven't finished third even in 10+ years. For so many on here to laugh at and criticise St Johnstone is laughable.

[Smartie]

I think some Hibs fans really need to look at what they are saying here about St Johnstone.
We rarely sell out our own stadium, even against the OF. Usually there's about 25% of Hibs end seats free and we are supposedly one of the big three outside of the OF.
St Johnstone also for their budget have been just as successful as us in recent years, we haven't finished third even in 10+ years. For so many on here to laugh at and criticise St Johnstone is laughable.

Until Hibs propose handing 3/4 of our ground over to fans of Celtic and Rangers I think we should laugh and criticise as much as we like - and make it known in no uncertain terms how damaging we think such moves are for the health of the game in this country.

FWIW I have loads of respect for St Johnstone as a club and in many ways admire them for their recent good results against us. They have been an example to other Scottish clubs in terms of achieving on field success whilst managing to live within their means.

[Jonny1875]

Until Hibs propose handing 3/4 of our ground over to fans of Celtic and Rangers I think we should laugh and criticise as much as we like - and make it known in no uncertain terms how damaging we think such moves are for the health of the game in this country.


Or you could look at how St Johnstone are doing so well with their limited fan base and resources. Hibs could and should do better with a lot larger fan base and resources. We haven't even finished third in years.

[Sir David Gray]

Dundee Utd and possibly Falkirk, they would have much bigger home and away fans than, County, St Johnstone, Livvi and Hamilton
Partick Thistle in the Premiership, would average this as well

Dundee Utd are one of the six that I was referring to that already average well above 5000.

Falkirk didn't average any more than around 5500 when they were last in the top league 10-15 years ago and even more recently the pull of having the likes of Rangers, Hibs, Hearts and Dundee Utd in the Championship didn't pull in an average of more than 5000.

[Sir David Gray]

Dundee Utd and possibly Falkirk, they would have much bigger home and away fans than, County, St Johnstone, Livvi and Hamilton
Partick Thistle in the Premiership, would average this as well


Dundee Utd are one of the six that I was referring to that already average well above 5000.

Falkirk didn't average any more than around 5500 when they were last in the top league 10-15 years ago and even more recently the pull of having the likes of Rangers, Hibs, Hearts and Dundee Utd in the Championship didn't pull in an average of more than 5000.

Also Partick Thistle never averaged above 5000 the last time they were in the top league either.

[Billy Whizz]

Also Partick Thistle never averaged above 5000 the last time they were in the top league either.

5000 or so is still decent

[Allant1981]

I find anyone supporting the old firm outside of Glasgow weird tbh. There is no reason for it all unless it’s a family thing, and even then it’s weird. Support your local team from grassroots to top level.

Plenty of non edinburgh folk support hibs, do you find that weird as well, not everyone has a local team or had a local team when growing up.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

St Johnstone have been in the SPL for the last ten years. In that time they have qualified for Europe four times in a row, had some notable results and also they won the Scottish Cup all on a fan base of 3,000. Are we deliberately swerving the irony of that compared to us, or choosing not to look?

[Jonny1875]

St Johnstone have been in the SPL for the last ten years. In that time they have qualified for Europe four times in a row, had some notable results and also they won the Scottish Cup all on a fan base of 3,000. Are we deliberately swerving the irony of that compared to us, or choosing not to look?

100%. Outside of the Scottish Cup win Hibs have had a shocking decade.

[Smartie]

Or you could look at how St Johnstone are doing so well with their limited fan base and resources. Hibs could and should do better with a lot larger fan base and resources. We haven't even finished third in years.

Not going to argue with that really, as I agree.

If I were to really stick my neck on the line, I'd say the biggest problem Scottish football has had in the past 30 years has been the decline of the biggest clubs immediately below Rangers and Celtic. The underachievement of ourselves, Hearts, Aberdeen and Dundee United has been criminal. When we start regularly making the group stages of the Europa League or the national team qualifies for another major tournament then I'll start to think Scottish football is on the mend. I couldn't care less what Rangers and Celtic do.

Clubs like St Johnstone and Ross County have in many ways been an example to us and an impressive Scottish success story - how to do so well with minimal resources whilst living within your means.

We could do with getting a bit more from Dunfermline, Falkirk, Dundee, Morton etc who I have always considered to be fairly big clubs.

[we are hibs]

Anyone supports celtic or rangers is a weirdo regardless if they are a weegie or not.

[Sir David Gray]

5000 or so is still decent

It's not bad in comparison with the wider Scottish attendance figures but the original suggestion was that there were quite a few teams outwith the Premiership that have the ability to pull in 6000+ fans on a regular basis and the only reason they don't is because they're not in the Premiership, when that just isn't really the case.

There are probably no more than 3 or 4 teams outwith the top league that could reach an average of 6000 fans or more.

[Smartie]

100%. Outside of the Scottish Cup win Hibs have had a shocking decade.

Hibs started the decade in the middle of a horrendous decline, which was only arrested after relegation and the appointment of LD.

Whilst we can have no excuses for the relegation, we were a bit unlucky to go down when we did, as emerging from the Championship was harder than ever given the teams who found themselves in there (for various reasons).

The start of the decade, whilst in that decline, was actually punctuated by some relatively decent cup performances.

Since relegation we've generally been on an upward trend with a couple of notable (and predictable) bumps in the road.

I'm not unhappy with where we've ended the decade and the direction of travel presently.

Not sure I'd call it a shocking decade - the 3 years in the Championship were abject, but the Scottish Cup did make up for it.

Put it this way - I don't think the last 10 years were any worse than any other set of 10 during my 42 years on the planet, with the usual peaks and troughs.

[lord bunberry]

Maybe if every game they play against the ugly sisters wasn’t on tv and moved to a Sunday or Saturday morning these teams might have more of a chance of getting bigger crowds in. It used to be that more home fans turned up for the bigger games, but that’s not the case anymore for most teams.

[jacomo]

Hibs started the decade in the middle of a horrendous decline, which was only arrested after relegation and the appointment of LD.

Whilst we can have no excuses for the relegation, we were a bit unlucky to go down when we did, as emerging from the Championship was harder than ever given the teams who found themselves in there (for various reasons).

The start of the decade, whilst in that decline, was actually punctuated by some relatively decent cup performances.

Since relegation we've generally been on an upward trend with a couple of notable (and predictable) bumps in the road.

I'm not unhappy with where we've ended the decade and the direction of travel presently.

Not sure I'd call it a shocking decade - the 3 years in the Championship were abject, but the Scottish Cup did make up for it.

Put it this way - I don't think the last 10 years were any worse than any other set of 10 during my 42 years on the planet.


Not shocking only because it wasn’t unexpected.

Hibs are serial underperformers sadly.

[MWHIBBIES]

100%. Outside of the Scottish Cup win Hibs have had a shocking decade.

Yes, outside of the greatest moment in the clubs history it has been poor.

[sambajustice]

Dunno if it's already been said but hibs should give Celtic and rangers the east stand.

More fans = more money!

[CentreLine]

St Johnstone have been in the SPL for the last ten years. In that time they have qualified for Europe four times in a row, had some notable results and also they won the Scottish Cup all on a fan base of 3,000. Are we deliberately swerving the irony of that compared to us, or choosing not to look?

Added to that they have maintained a good playing surface, on grass, and managed their finances very well indeed. There may be critics of them making financially sound decisions but there are clubs much more worthy of criticism than St J. Where exactly do we get the clubs to make up a competitive league without the likes of St J, St Mirren, Dunfermline and such? I’d ditch the plastic pitch brigade long before a decent club like the Perth Saints.

[Hibbyradge]

Dunno if it's already been said but hibs should give Celtic and rangers the east stand.

More fans = more money!

You're obviously trolling, but I'll play. How would giving a stand which already sells out for the bigger games to our opponents bring in more money?

[Brightside]

Plenty of non edinburgh folk support hibs, do you find that weird as well, not everyone has a local team or had a local team when growing up.

Yes. Everyone has a local team. Please tell me any town in Scotland and I’ll give you the local team.

[The 90+2]

I find anyone supporting the old firm outside of Glasgow weird tbh. There is no reason for it all unless it’s a family thing, and even then it’s weird. Support your local team from grassroots to top level.

Correct. Unfortunately there’s loads of excuses why they get supported, through religion to glory hunting.

[The 90+2]

Yes, outside of the greatest moment in the clubs history it has been poor.

:greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

Yes. Everyone has a local team. Please tell me any town in Scotland and I’ll give you the local team.

Supporting the local team is a lovely idea, but expecting that folk should be restricted to watching utter rubbish because it happens to be close is just plain silly.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Reality of living within their means within their context...

[Since452]

Dunno if it's already been said but hibs should give Celtic and rangers the east stand.

More fans = more money!

19.5k at ER a few weeks ago v Rangers and we aren't very good

[Brightside]

Supporting the local team is a lovely idea, but expecting that folk should be restricted to watching utter rubbish because it happens to be close is just plain silly.

Depends on your idea of rubbish football. I’d rather watch kids football locally than go and watch Rangers / Celtic. To an outsider the majority of a Scottish football is rubbish.

[Hibbyradge]

Correct. Unfortunately there’s loads of excuses why they get supported, through religion to glory hunting.

There are good reasons people don't watch their local teams.

If I lived in Prescot, would you really expect me to go along to watch Cables FC when Liverpool was only 25 minutes away?

Why should anyone be told to go and watch cowdenbeath when the Holy Ground is a mere 40 minute drive?

I tried to go to York FC games when I first moved down. It was utterly brutal and I have zero motivation to go along.

Am I a glory hunter or a religious bigot?

[Hibbyradge]

Depends on your idea of rubbish football. I’d rather watch kids football locally than go and watch Rangers / Celtic. To an outsider the majority of a Scottish football is rubbish.

Well, if you think kids' football is better than watching the best teams in Scotland, then people elsewhere will have good reason to think our league is rubbish!

[Ozyhibby]

Who was the last youngster to come through at St. Johnstone and play for Scotland? They might have more support locally if the committed to proper youth development program.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[stuart-farquhar]

There are good reasons people don't watch their local teams.

If I lived in Prescot, would you really expect me to go along to watch Cables FC when Liverpool was only 25 minutes away?

Why should anyone be told to go and watch cowdenbeath when the Holy Ground is a mere 40 minute drive?

I tried to go to York FC games when I first moved down. It was utterly brutal and I have zero motivation to go along.

Am I a glory hunter or a religious bigot?

Nah you're not. A tiny bit pretentious in your auld age though perhaps! lol.

[Smartie]

Yes. Everyone has a local team. Please tell me any town in Scotland and I’ll give you the local team.

Kinross.

[Hibbyradge]

Nah you're not. A tiny bit pretentious in your auld age though perhaps! lol.

What's pretentious about not wanting to watch York City? :hilarious

I would have thought that actually going to Bootham Crescent was more open to that criticism! :greengrin

[The 90+2]

Supporting the local team is a lovely idea, but expecting that folk should be restricted to watching utter rubbish because it happens to be close is just plain silly.

That’s why there is fire sticks these days 😉

[stuart-farquhar]

What's pretentious about not wanting to watch York City? :hilarious

I would have thought that actually going to Bootham Crescent was more open to that criticism! :greengrin

Yes indeed. Been there and it's a bit of an ordeal.

Most Yorkies I know go to Elland Road anyway.

[Billy Whizz]

Kilmarnock have halved Celtic’s allocation for the match at Rugby Park later this month
Normally get both stands behind the goals, bit have only been given one stand
That’s a reductive from 9,000 to 4,500, which is a fair bit of cash

[Lancs Harp]

Hearts have applied for all four sdes of McDairmid :wink:

[jgl07]

You're talking about Hibs - in the 70s and 80s we would generally get 4 - 5k at Easter Road for Dundee, Partick etc. and then 20k for Old Firm games.

Much the same in the mid-1990s.

Hibs often struggled to get more than 4,000 for St Johnstone at Easter Road.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Plenty of non edinburgh folk support hibs, do you find that weird as well, not everyone has a local team or had a local team when growing up.

That's true, but when the conversation is about glory hunting the point isn't even that somebody doesn't support a team local to them, the point is what team they 'choose' to support. If buses left towns all over Scotland every weekend taking folk to Rugby park or East End park etc then fair enough, but they don't, they go to the stadiums of by miles the two biggest and most successful clubs in the country.

That's the difference, the fact that when it comes to the 'I can support who I like' brigade they never choose to support Kilmarnock, Motherwell, Dundee or even Hibs and always leech on to the biggest clubs. That's what makes them glory hunters, not the fact that they don't have a local club to support or even that they choose not to support a local club.

The Borders is a prime example. It's biggest towns like Galashiels, Peebles and Hawick are between 30 and 50 miles from Edinburgh, but the lack of any meaningful professional football here makes it a natural catchment area for Hibs and Hearts ... in fact as the crow flies Easter Road is the nearest professional ground to my house even though its a near 40 mile trip in the car ... but even then the region is packed with glory hunting twats.
,

[Pretty Boy]

The reluctance of people to 'shop locally' when it comes to football will hasten the demise of merit based football competition. European football has already become an increasingly closed shop and is set to become even more so. There was a UEFA official a few years back who suggested Manchester United deserved to be in the Champions League more than champions Leicester City because they had contributed more to football historically. There has been discussions for years held about having a core of teams who are automatic entrants to the Champions League regardless of their league position; that could see the absurd situation in which currently 11th placed AC Milan would play top level European football next year whilst Atalanta (currently 5th and in contention) could miss out regardless of their respective domestic performance.

The globalisation of a few leagues and a couple of handfuls of teams impacts everyone. It leads to the disparity in prize money and TV deals that sees some leagues being 'utter rubbish'. If people want to support 'City', 'United', 'Barca' or, at local level, Celtic and Rangers then fine. There has to be a recognition that such choices have consequences though.

[Toldo123]

Perhaps they are getting to see what the implications are if they don't do this. As much as it sounds unpalatable, it has to be seen from their perspective not hours.Exactly. It could be the difference between signing a couple of players, keeping a youth team going, making some staff redundant.

It is easy to take the moral high ground here. The St Johnstone board have done aan amazing job to keep the club in the top half of the league for many years. They also won their first Scottish cup. It is fair to say this decision will not have been taken lightly but given their track record in running their club I would give them the benefit of the doubt

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[Brightside]

Kinross.

Jeanfield swifts? Great wee outfit.

[Allant1981]

Yes. Everyone has a local team. Please tell me any town in Scotland and I’ll give you the local team.

I come from bathgate originally, livi were not there at the time so who should I have chosen to support

[Steven79]

I come from bathgate originally, livi were not there at the time so who should I have chosen to support

Bathgate Thistle. :thumbsup:

[Pretty Boy]

I come from bathgate originally, livi were not there at the time so who should I have chosen to support

I don't think supporting a local team means you have to support the team exactly closest to you geographically. When I was growing up that would have been Hearts ffs.

I think people take issue with some guy from just outside Perth moaning that 'Scottish football is *****' or 'Celtic are pish in Europe because there's no competition' whilst he travels 65 miles to Glasgow every other week rather than support St Johnstone, Dundee, Dundee Utd etc. If you go to just about any town in Scotland then there will be more Celtic and Rangers fans than supporters of the local teams, the same probably applies to the cities as well. Being from Montrose and supporting Arbroath is not the same as being from Edinburgh and supporting Rangers.

[Allant1981]

Bathgate Thistle. :thumbsup:

Have you seen them!

[Allant1981]

I don't think supporting a local team means you have to support the team exactly closest to you geographically. When I was growing up that would have been Hearts ffs.

I think people take issue with some guy from just outside Perth moaning that 'Scottish football is *****' or 'Celtic are pish in Europe because there's no competition' whilst he travels 65 miles to Glasgow every other week rather than support St Johnstone, Dundee, Dundee Utd etc. If you go to just about any town in Scotland then there will be more Celtic and Rangers fans than supporters of the local teams, the same probably applies to the cities as well. Being from Montrose and supporting Arbroath is not the same as being from Edinburgh and supporting Rangers.

But underscore reckons it's weird that folk from said town/city supporting a club from a different area is weird, if you could only support your local team then professional football would be in an even worse state than it is now

[green day]

But underscore reckons it's weird that folk from said town/city supporting a club from a different area is weird, if you could only support your local team then professional football would be in an even worse state than it is now

Supporting your local team is "normal" imo but i have a couple of Edinburgh mates who support Aberdeen based on family history - which is fine by me.

If you are from London, you have a selection of local teams, same with Birmingham, slightly less so with Edinburgh but basically there are two (or three) teams to choose from.

The problem is people from <insert any town, city, village in Scotland> either actively supporting Rangers or Celtic, or being one of the pub supporters who never actually go but "follow" one of these clubs.

These fuds take fans away from every other club in Scotland, and they do it because they are religious bigots, plain and simple.

[Brightside]

But underscore reckons it's weird that folk from said town/city supporting a club from a different area is weird, if you could only support your local team then professional football would be in an even worse state than it is now

People living in Edinburgh and supporting the old firm week in week out are odd. I know people in Inverness who travel to watch celtic and would never watch ICT....thats very very weird to me. How is a small team supposed to get bigger and thrive if the locals cant be assed. As a kid id go and watch Musselburgh then Hibs when they were at home. I'd have gone and watched Bathgate or Broxie whenever i could if i lived there.... i'd also have chosen a senior team to go and watch as i got older. Prob an edinburgh team or Falkirk pre Livi being formed. I totally get that not everyone lives near to a senior club...but traveling to the other side of the country just to see "winning" isnt really what football is about for me.

[Hibbyradge]

Supporting your local team is "normal" imo but i have a couple of Edinburgh mates who support Aberdeen based on family history - which is fine by me.

If you are from London, you have a selection of local teams, same with Birmingham, slightly less so with Edinburgh but basically there are two (or three) teams to choose from.

The problem is people from <insert any town, city, village in Scotland> either actively supporting Rangers or Celtic, or being one of the pub supporters who never actually go but "follow" one of these clubs.

These fuds take fans away from every other club in Scotland, and they do it because they are religious bigots, plain and simple.

It's not really that simple although it plays a part.

If Dunfermline, for example, made a decision to go full bigot (any flavour), it wouldn't attract more supporters.

If, however, they started regularly winning the league and competing in Europe, they would.

I remember Celtic and Rangers getting very low crowds when they were failing in the league.

All clubs get bigger crowds when they're having success and vice versa.

[RyeSloan]

Jeanfield swifts? Great wee outfit.

They are indeed a hard working outfit who, in some sort of symmetry with this thread, have a ladies team who play under the guise of St Johnstone Woman’s FC I believe.

[Brightside]

They are indeed a hard working outfit who, in some sort of symmetry with this thread, have a ladies team who play under the guise of St Johnstone Woman’s FC I believe.

Correct ....Youth team feed into the St Johnstone Womans team.

[green day]

It's not really that simple although it plays a part.

If Dunfermline, for example, decided to go full bigot (any flavour), it wouldn't attract more supporters.

If, however, they started regularly winning the league and competing in Europe, they would.

I remember Celtic and Rangers getting very low crowds when they were failing in the league.

All clubs get bigger crowds when they're having success and vice versa.

You are right about success giving higher crowds (us after promotion / Cup win are a good example).

However these events for most smaller clubs are very few and far between.

There are really only two clubs you would support if you have some sort of catholics v protestants nonsense going on in your life - there is no chance of the bit in bold happening so its a moot point.

I was - for various reasons - in Bridge of Allan for one of our play off matches v Rangers.

I watched it in a pub there and it was full to the gunnels of "Rangers fans". I am a sociable guy and got talking to a few guys at the bar.

They had a bit of a laugh when I said I was a Hibs ST holder - so I asked them where in Ibrox they usually sat.........no answer.

I then asked them why they supported Rangers.......funnily enough the chat dried up:greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

People living in Edinburgh and supporting the old firm week in week out are odd. I know people in Inverness who travel to watch celtic and would never watch ICT....thats very very weird to me. How is a small team supposed to get bigger and thrive if the locals cant be assed. As a kid id go and watch Musselburgh then Hibs when they were at home. I'd have gone and watched Bathgate or Broxie whenever i could if i lived there.... i'd also have chosen a senior team to go and watch as i got older. Prob an edinburgh team or Falkirk pre Livi being formed. I totally get that not everyone lives near to a senior club...but traveling to the other side of the country just to see "winning" isnt really what football is about for me.

I'm sure that most people who post on here feel the same, but I can understand why people do follow success.

Every season we see posts from Hibbies who are off to see Barca or Real etc. I've got tickets for Villa v Spurs and Man United v Watford next month.

I'd love to go to the Emirates or Anfield but I didn't even consider going to see Huddersfield last season and they were the closest EPL team to me.

There's a glamour associated with the more successful clubs. We see them on TV and we know their players. Like it or not, young people in Scotland watching Rantic are affected similarly and that's why it's common for people to support distant teams.

[where'stheslope]

It's not really that simple although it plays a part.

If Dunfermline, for example, made a decision to go full bigot (any flavour), it wouldn't attract more supporters.

If, however, they started regularly winning the league and competing in Europe, they would.

I remember Celtic and Rangers getting very low crowds when they were failing in the league.

All clubs get bigger crowds when they're having success and vice versa.
That was a long time ago, when it cost clubs money to play in Europe!
Now playing in Europe, with TV rights it has made Celtic almost uncatchable for every club in Scotland bar Rangers.
Celtic are raking in £millions every season from European TV monies, so they can afford to pluck players from other clubs in Scotland without even playing them?
Now this season Rangers are flying high in both the league and Europe, which now makes it doubly hard to win or be successful here!
I can see for the next 10 years at least, there will be slim pickings for clubs outwith the Old Firm!!!!!

[jgl07]

That was a long time ago, when it cost clubs money to play in Europe!
Now playing in Europe, with TV rights it has made Celtic almost uncatchable for every club in Scotland bar Rangers.
Celtic are raking in £millions every season from European TV monies, so they can afford to pluck players from other clubs in Scotland without even playing them?
Now this season Rangers are flying high in both the league and Europe, which now makes it doubly hard to win or be successful here!
I can see for the next 10 years at least, there will be slim pickings for clubs outwith the Old Firm!!!!!

As per the last thirty years then!

[sambajustice]

As per the last thirty years then!

As per the last 140 years! I think in that time, celtic and rangers have about 105 titles with the other 35 being spread across the rest of Scotland.

People get on their high horse but it's never really been any different. It's even harder now and will never change until some ridiculously rich radge wants to try an "experiment" and pumps ludicrous amounts of money into a club

[easty]

I'm sure that most people who post on here feel the same, but I can understand why people do follow success.

Every season we see posts from Hibbies who are off to see Barca or Real etc. I've got tickets for Villa v Spurs and Man United v Watford next month.

I'd love to go to the Emirates or Anfield but I didn't even consider going to see Huddersfield last season and they were the closest EPL team to me.

There's a glamour associated with the more successful clubs. We see them on TV and we know their players. Like it or not, young people in Scotland watching Rantic are affected similarly and that's why it's common for people to support distant teams.

I lived in Leeds for a couple of years and went to see Bradford a few times. Terrible standard of football.

[Hermit Crab]

It doesn't help St J that every single home game they play v the OF are televised and usually a crap kick off time as well as high ticket prices. They usually lose as well, not a lot to encourage would be fans along. Add in the party songs and general thuggish behaviour on show from the OF fans as well. Who wants to watch that?

Can see why they've done this to be honest.

[Nicho87]

Hope they get relegated next season

[heidtheba]

Pretty sure Dundee United gave the old firm 3 out of the 5 stands, Dunfermline 2 out of 4 (plus maybe some of the main stand??).

Just shows you that regardless of how low you make the prices, people just won’t come, which totally disregards the argument from some on here to offer massively reduced family deals and expect it’ll increase attendances so much to make it worth our while.

My first reaction was "I'd rather give free tickets to local kids and their families than do that!" until I thought about it. Getting a bunch of (hopefully) football impressionable youngsters along to, let's face it, lose to a team with a lot more press and TV coverage will probably more likely create mini-Old Firm fans than St J ones.

Sad times.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Hope they get relegated next season

I like your thinking 😁

[SquashedFrogg]

It doesn't help St J that every single home game they play v the OF are televised and usually a crap kick off time as well as high ticket prices. They usually lose as well, not a lot to encourage would be fans along. Add in the party songs and general thuggish behaviour on show from the OF fans as well. Who wants to watch that?

Can see why they've done this to be honest.

Can't disagree with any of your points tbf.

[hibbysam]

It doesn't help St J that every single home game they play v the OF are televised and usually a crap kick off time as well as high ticket prices. They usually lose as well, not a lot to encourage would be fans along. Add in the party songs and general thuggish behaviour on show from the OF fans as well. Who wants to watch that?

Can see why they've done this to be honest.

I’m presuming all of their non-OF home games which kick off at 3pm against your Hamilton’s and Ross County’s where they are favourites to win and are very cheap (as per their family deals) are complete sell outs then? If not then that argument is blown out of the water.

We were averaging 8k at one point not so long ago, and I’d have lost my **** if we had given the OF any more than they currently got, money or no money. I’d actually still prefer if we cut their allocation right back.

Your last point about behaviour of their fans - that shouldn’t be rewarded by receiving many more tickets, that should be where clubs take a stand.

[SquashedFrogg]

I’m presuming all of their non-OF home games which kick off at 3pm against your Hamilton’s and Ross County’s where they are favourites to win and are very cheap (as per their family deals) are complete sell outs then? If not then that argument is blown out of the water.

We were averaging 8k at one point not so long ago, and I’d have lost my **** if we had given the OF any more than they currently got, money or no money. I’d actually still prefer if we cut their allocation right back.

Your last point about behaviour of their fans - that shouldn’t be rewarded by receiving many more tickets, that should be where clubs take a stand.

Are tickets at St Johnstone 'very cheap'? Website says adult tickets are £25?

Bottom line is that they want to maximise any opportunity they can to generate income. Might stick in the throat, but the old firm give them that opportunity. Fair play.

[hibbysam]

Are tickets at St Johnstone 'very cheap'? Website says adult tickets are £25?

Bottom line is that they want to maximise any opportunity they can to generate income. Might stick in the throat, but the old firm give them that opportunity. Fair play.

Adult and 2 kids £17 or £25 dependant on which stand they sit in.. Point I was making are the excuses the previous poster used for Saints fans are the exact same ones that get trotted out for ours, time, price, Nae chance of winning, bad away fans, yet when every one of those factors are reversed (lesser games with more chance of winning, cheaper prices than the big games, quieter ‘nicer’ away fans) the fans still don’t show up.

I also wouldn’t say it’s ‘fair play’ for them taking this action. The fact they can’t get folk from Perth off their ***** to go along and watch them is their issue, if that’s the way they want to go then that’s up to them, however they can’t then complain or moan when the rest of Scottish football give them pelters for it.

It’s the reason this league will never become any more competitive, clubs (and hibs are included in this bit) are more worried about short term gains than looking at the long term potential for this league. Too scared to get rid of 2 old firm games, too scared to lower away income, too scared to hold those at the top accountable for absolute laughable tv and sponsorship deals.

[makaveli1875]

Every team should be cutting the Of down to the minimum amount possible. **** them and thier cash

[Since90+2]

Every team should be cutting the Of down to the minimum amount possible. **** them and thier cash

If only it was as simple as that. Unfortunately the reality is for some clubs in the league they need and rely on Celticn and Sevco supports and the amount of money they bring.

[SquashedFrogg]

If only it was as simple as that. Unfortunately the reality is for some clubs in the league they need and rely on Celticn and Sevco supports and the amount of money they bring.

Correct. In an ideal world teams would give them the least tickets possible. Sadly, many teams simply can't justify that decision commercially. Particularly smaller supported clubs.

[SquashedFrogg]

Adult and 2 kids £17 or £25 dependant on which stand they sit in.. Point I was making are the excuses the previous poster used for Saints fans are the exact same ones that get trotted out for ours, time, price, Nae chance of winning, bad away fans, yet when every one of those factors are reversed (lesser games with more chance of winning, cheaper prices than the big games, quieter ‘nicer’ away fans) the fans still don’t show up.

I also wouldn’t say it’s ‘fair play’ for them taking this action. The fact they can’t get folk from Perth off their ***** to go along and watch them is their issue, if that’s the way they want to go then that’s up to them, however they can’t then complain or moan when the rest of Scottish football give them pelters for it.

It’s the reason this league will never become any more competitive, clubs (and hibs are included in this bit) are more worried about short term gains than looking at the long term potential for this league. Too scared to get rid of 2 old firm games, too scared to lower away income, too scared to hold those at the top accountable for absolute laughable tv and sponsorship deals.

So it'll be £25 for me then as an adult. Not that cheap tbf.

Many of your points lead to more fundamental issues in our game. League restructuring etc.

On the main subject however I just can't be too critical of a small club making ommercial decision to bring in more revenue.

The utopian ideology you touch on sounds great, but some clubs need to balance the books and pay the bills.

I'm not exactly a fan of the old firm. But is it not bizzare to restrict their tickets when half the stadium is empty?

[hibbysam]

So it'll be £25 for me then as an adult. Not that cheap tbf.

Many of your points lead to more fundamental issues in our game. League restructuring etc.

On the main subject however I just can't be too critical of a small club making ommercial decision to bring in more revenue.

The utopian ideology you touch on sounds great, but some clubs need to balance the books and pay the bills.

I'm not exactly a fan of the old firm. But is it not bizzare to restrict their tickets when half the stadium is empty?

‘Some clubs need to balance the books’ - there is 101 other ways of increasing income/decreasing expenditure, but they’ll take the easy option of a quick quid, which results in the league never changing for the better.

[The Captain....]

As we enter a new decade it seems like we're seeing the age old duopoly of the bigot bros preparing to completely dominate Scottish football again. Large swathes of the media and those running the game will be delighted no doubt. Then they will gave the cheek to criticise fans of the other clubs for rejecting this and not turning up to watch a totally uncompetitive league.

Young fans and new fans aren't going to be persuaded along to watch this play out. I fully expect there to be a significant drop in our own season ticket numbers next year for this reason and the same will be reflected over the other clubs. Scottish football in it's short sightedness is going to destroy itself..not that The Rangers and Celtic will particularly care..but they should. 10 in a row seems to be the only narrative that either care about tho. The rest of us couldn't give a flying one about it.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

[hibbysam]

As we enter a new decade it seems like we're seeing the age old duopoly of the bigot bros preparing to completely dominate Scottish football again. Large swathes of the media and those running the game will be delighted no doubt. Then they will gave the cheek to criticise fans of the other clubs for rejecting this and not turning up to watch a totally uncompetitive league.

Young fans and new fans aren't going to be persuaded along to watch this play out. I fully expect there to be a significant drop in our own season ticket numbers next year for this reason and the same will be reflected over the other clubs. Scottish football in it's short sightedness is going to destroy itself..not that The Rangers and Celtic will particularly care..but they should. 10 in a row seems to be the only narrative that either care about tho. The rest of us couldn't give a flying one about it.

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Absolutely, but it’s fine, clubs need to get as much income as possible in as short a period as possible, without looking at the long term benefits that could happen.

[SquashedFrogg]

‘Some clubs need to balance the books’ - there is 101 other ways of increasing income/decreasing expenditure, but they’ll take the easy option of a quick quid, which results in the league never changing for the better.

So how else do St Johnstone significantly increase income if there are 101 other ways?

[hibbysam]

So how else do St Johnstone significantly increase income if there are 101 other ways?

You start at the top and ask questions of the league, which you are part of, and wonder why certain competitions cannot garner sponsorship, you start to wonder why we have one or the worst tv deals in Europe when our game has been thriving, you start bringing through your own players and selling them on for large profits (who was the last 3 big money moves out of St Johnstone?), them and many others could’ve grown a set when rangers were out of the top league and changed the voting system to allow a more even distribution of wealth across the league rather than top 2 heavy. They wouldn’t do that at the time though as they were benefiting from 3 of the top 5 being out of the league. They should’ve got out of a group that included Forfar, Brechin and Montrose in the league cup - extra pennies.

It’s fairly clear that they are still working off a budget of when they were getting in the top 6, and Europe regularly, while finishing in the bottom 6 constantly.

In reality they can do as they please, however no business survives working from month to month, year to year, there must be a long term vision and plan, and they can’t cry about having no fans when they have absolutely no vision or plan of how they will be competitive in 5/10/15 years time in a competitive, exciting league with proper income streams into the country.

[SquashedFrogg]

You start at the top and ask questions of the league, which you are part of, and wonder why certain competitions cannot garner sponsorship, you start to wonder why we have one or the worst tv deals in Europe when our game has been thriving, you start bringing through your own players and selling them on for large profits (who was the last 3 big money moves out of St Johnstone?), them and many others could’ve grown a set when rangers were out of the top league and changed the voting system to allow a more even distribution of wealth across the league rather than top 2 heavy. They wouldn’t do that at the time though as they were benefiting from 3 of the top 5 being out of the league. They should’ve got out of a group that included Forfar, Brechin and Montrose in the league cup - extra pennies.

It’s fairly clear that they are still working off a budget of when they were getting in the top 6, and Europe regularly, while finishing in the bottom 6 constantly.

In reality they can do as they please, however no business survives working from month to month, year to year, there must be a long term vision and plan, and they can’t cry about having no fans when they have absolutely no vision or plan of how they will be competitive in 5/10/15 years time in a competitive, exciting league with proper income streams into the country.

All sounds great in theory. But what happens when all of this takes place and their stadium is still less than half full? Are they still ok to maximise match day revenue?

What if this move brings in enough funds to improve their youth set up, which in turn, helps them develop and sell players in the future? What if this extra income brings in better players which gives them greater success on the pitch?

I'm not stating that all is perfect in our game. Far from it. But I'm still not seeing a valid reason for St Johnstone not to generate more income via ticket sales.

Livingston and Hamilton are other examples of poorly supported clubs who give up large parts of their stadiums in order to sell more tickets.

I honestly don't see the big issue. If we had a big enough away support I'd love to see us get this new allocation.

[neil7908]

Absolutely, but it’s fine, clubs need to get as much income as possible in as short a period as possible, without looking at the long term benefits that could happen.

Yup. We're just seeing the slow death of Scottish football, nothing to see here people.

Some will say the OF have dominated for years but I think that underestimates how football and society has shifted globally. When I started watching in the early 90s you still had the legacy of the great Aberdeen and Dundee United teams in the 80s as inspiration and a source of hope. For young fans now they know that only following the OF will give them any chance of supporting a "successful" club. Or they can easily watch Liverpool, Barca, Juventus on TV in a way I never could and connect with the clubs and their players on social media.

Football has always been entertainment but now more than ever I think young fans who are on social media want to follow exciting, successful teams.

I really worry about Scottish football, including Hibs, and how we will cope in the medium to the long term. Actions like St Johnstone's are only the tip of the iceberg I'm afraid. What next, give them all 4 stands?

Sadly I could see us ending up in this position down the road.

[Hibbyradge]

What would be the benefits to St Johnstone if they kept the other 2 stands empty?

Furthermore, if there are advantages in restricting your income like that, would it not be in Hibs' interest to ban away fans and simply close the South Stand altogether?

That might open up the possibility of selling it for a second hotel.

[macca70]

If it’s purely financial decision which it clearly is, why not just change venue and get even more in by just changing them to away games

[Since452]

Yup. We're just seeing the slow death of Scottish football, nothing to see here people.

Some will say the OF have dominated for years but I think that underestimates how football and society has shifted globally. When I started watching in the early 90s you still had the legacy of the great Aberdeen and Dundee United teams in the 80s as inspiration and a source of hope. For young fans now they know that only following the OF will give them any chance of supporting a "successful" club. Or they can easily watch Liverpool, Barca, Juventus on TV in a way I never could and connect with the clubs and their players on social media.

Football has always been entertainment but now more than ever I think young fans who are on social media want to follow exciting, successful teams.

I really worry about Scottish football, including Hibs, and how we will cope in the medium to the long term. Actions like St Johnstone's are only the tip of the iceberg I'm afraid. What next, give them all 4 stands?

Sadly I could see us ending up in this position down the road.

I think the likes of Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen are fine. Aberdeen have cut the away allocation for everyone including Celtic and Rangers recently and ourselves and Hearts have both done it in the last few seasons. It's different for St Johnsone, Livingston etc who have tiny fan bases. Sure I read that St Johnstone's lowest home gate is against Rangers where they only attract 1500 home fans. Makes complete sense for them to sell the other tickets to Rangers and make a few bob. Doesn't mean I like it . Same with Livi. Scottish football is in great shape because we've had to cut our cloth accordingly and live within our means. There are no financial disasters around the corner for clubs as they're generally paying out less than they get in. Compare it to the English Championship which is a disaster waiting to happen

[Gloucester Hibs]

What would be the benefits to St Johnstone if they kept the other 2 stands empty?

Furthermore, if there are advantages in restricting your income like that, would it not be in Hibs' interest to ban away fans and simply close the South Stand altogether?

That might open up the possibility of selling it for a second hotel.

I know you're being facetious, but the times we've cut the OF's allocation at ER we've been unbeaten. That would indicate it is not without merit. Certainly when the demand is there from our support to at least partially fill the empty sections in the South.

[Peevemor]

I know you're being facetious, but the times we've cut the OF's allocation at ER we've been unbeaten. That would indicate it is not without merit. Certainly when the demand is there from our support to at least partially fill the empty sections in the South.

Demand was high because the team was playing very well. Also for "OF" read Rangers, who weren't so good at the time.

[Gloucester Hibs]

Demand was high because the team was playing very well. Also for "OF" read Rangers, who weren't so good at the time.

Did we not do it for the 2-0 win v Celtic last season also? So not just v Sevco. And I agree if the demand isn’t there to at least partially fill the empty sections it’s probably not worth doing.

[Peevemor]

Did we not do it for the 2-0 win v Celtic last season also? So not just v Sevco. And I agree if the demand isn’t there to at least partially fill the empty sections it’s probably not worth doing.

I stand corrected, we did, although Hibs lost tens of thousand of pounds in unsold seats that day.

Did there being 1800 instead of 3500 Celtc fans there affect the result? I honestly don't know.

[Gloucester Hibs]

I stand corrected, we did, although Hibs lost tens of thousand of pounds in unsold seats that day.

Did there being 1800 instead of 3500 Celtc fans there affect the result? I honestly don't know.

Yeah it's a tricky one, you can't really say with any certainty either way, what little data we do have so far would indicate it does have a positive effect. Comes down to a choice between guaranteed cash in the bank versus marginal gains which will have the potential to equate to points on the board. I think we just have to make a judgement call maybe game-by-game or season by season as to what is best for the club at that moment in time.

[Jones28]

I stand corrected, we did, although Hibs lost tens of thousand of pounds in unsold seats that day.

Did there being 1800 instead of 3500 Celtc fans there affect the result? I honestly don't know.

No. We played just as well in the previous season with them having the full stand.

[Anthony Soprano]

I find anyone supporting the old firm outside of Glasgow weird tbh. There is no reason for it all unless it’s a family thing, and even then it’s weird. Support your local team from grassroots to top level.

Agreed, I find it quite annoying actually.

I remember seeing a post on twitter from a Celtic fan slating the Hibs support for poor attendance post league cup semi at Hampden, how we were an embarrassment for not selling out our allocation.

Imagine my shock when I click on his profile to see he's from Edinburgh. The old firm and irony don't go.