Gullan - recalled from loan

[makaveli1875]

https://www.fifetoday.co.uk/sport/football/raith-rovers/raith-rovers-blow-as-top-scorer-jamie-gullan-to-return-to-hibs-1-5069382

[Vault Boy]

Interesting that we've told Raith we're planning on using him in the first team squad. His loan deal was due to end in January anyway, but it seems we won't be looking to let him go back unless we sign another striker.

He's done really well so it'd be good to see him get a chance.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I have high hopes for Jamie, and would love to see him getting first team game time.

[neil7908]

Wonder if this means we'll be seeing Shaw leave.

[calumhibee1]

Wonder if this means we'll be seeing Shaw leave.

That was my thought. He’s maybe taken over Shaw in the pecking order.

[neil7908]

That was my thought. He’s maybe taken over Shaw in the pecking order.

I always want to see young players getting a chance at Hibs and he's still got time to learn but just doesn't seem like we are the right place for Shaw at the moment.

Maybe a loan for the rest of the season would do him some good and allow for reflection in the summer on where his long term future lies.

[Billy Whizz]

Interesting that we've told Raith we're planning on using him in the first team squad. His loan deal was due to end in January anyway, but it seems we won't be looking to let him go back unless we sign another striker.

He's done really well so it'd be good to see him get a chance.

I’m sure he’s being brought back for Jack to have a look at him. He trains with Raith, so Jack only gets to see him in development games
Wonder if he’ll travel to Spain with the squad next week?

[offshorehibby]

That was my thought. He’s maybe taken over Shaw in the pecking order.

A stint at Raith wouldn't do Shaw any harm. Did i read on here that Tommy Block was heading for Raith as well.

On a seperate note i see James McPake in Sun today bigging up Sean MacKie today

[McKenzie]

Wonder if this means we'll be seeing Shaw leave.

Hopefully. No loans, permanent deals only. Gullan deserves his chance to make an impact at least off the bench. Realistically the best we will do is top 6 so perfect opportunity to blood some of the youngsters in second part of the season

[B.H.F.C]

A stint at Raith wouldn't do Shaw any harm. Did i read on here that Tommy Block was heading for Raith as well.

On a seperate note i see James McPake in Sun today bigging up Sean MacKie today

If Shaw goes out on loan, with a view to coming back here, it needs to be to a higher level than league one IMO. Different circumstances to Gullan.

[MWHIBBIES]

Hopefully. No loans, permanent deals only. Gullan deserves his chance to make an impact at least off the bench. Realistically the best we will do is top 6 so perfect opportunity to blood some of the youngsters in second part of the season

Shaw has shown more than Gullan to suggest he can make an impact off the bench, though.

[Brooster]

A stint at Raith wouldn't do Shaw any harm. Did i read on here that Tommy Block was heading for Raith as well.

On a seperate note i see James McPake in Sun today bigging up Sean MacKie today

I wouldn't be surprised if Mackie gets recalled too. Ross will know that the LB position is on of many needing addressed.

[bingo70]

Shaw has shown more than Gullan to suggest he can make an impact off the bench, though.

When was the last time Shaw made any impact off the bench?

[MWHIBBIES]

When was the last time Shaw made any impact off the bench?

A goal and 2 assists off the bench vs St Mirren last season. Since then he has only came off the bench for more than 30 minutes once, the Kilmarnock quarter final.

He had a goal wrongly disallowed in the league cup this season as well. Otherwise he has seen very poor game time. Maybe he isn't doing enough in training but to judge him not good enough based on 10 minute appearnces here and there isn't the way to go. He should've been loaned out or given a chance. He might not be good enough but its difficult to tell because he has literally not played in nearly a year.

[Gmack7]

we should loan shaw to Hamilton or St Mirren if they want him

[bingo70]

we should loan shaw to Hamilton or St Mirren if they want him

I’d be tempted to loan Hamilton or St Mirren Scott Allan and Martin Boyle tbh.

[B.H.F.C]

I wouldn't be surprised if Mackie gets recalled too. Ross will know that the LB position is on of many needing addressed.

Reading McPakes comments, it was interesting to see that he’s been playing left midfield rather than left back for them in the last couple of games.

Mentioned that he’s made 12 appearances which didn’t strike me as very many. Don’t know if he had a spell out the team, was injured etc.

[J-C]

Take him to Spain and see what he can offer, if he's not quite ready, back out on loan.

[hibbysam]

Reading McPakes comments, it was interesting to see that he’s been playing left midfield rather than left back for them in the last couple of games.

Mentioned that he’s made 12 appearances which didn’t strike me as very many. Don’t know if he had a spell out the team, was injured etc.

He struggled in his opening couple of games which mean he was out the side a bit, on the bench mostly, but since getting back in he’s been a mainstay. Would actually like Sean to mould into a left midfielder, he has an attacking mind, which means he can neglect his defensive side at times, but his delivery from the left is incredible and would give real balance to our team. A better proposition than Horgan on the left for me.

[hibsbollah]

Reading McPakes comments, it was interesting to see that he’s been playing left midfield rather than left back for them in the last couple of games.

Mentioned that he’s made 12 appearances which didn’t strike me as very many. Don’t know if he had a spell out the team, was injured etc.

He was playing left mid in the Dundee derby I watched the other day, left of a diamond midfield McPake had him in. He did fine although most of the play was down the other side.

[Greencore]

Would like to see Shaw head to raith

[TimeForHeroes16]

He struggled in his opening couple of games which mean he was out the side a bit, on the bench mostly, but since getting back in he’s been a mainstay. Would actually like Sean to mould into a left midfielder, he has an attacking mind, which means he can neglect his defensive side at times, but his delivery from the left is incredible and would give real balance to our team. A better proposition than Horgan on the left for me.
Mackie is built like a tank as well not many wingers his size could be a good weapon that

[bigwheel]

Mackie has a wand of a left foot ..top skills there - other than that I don’t see it ..can’t defend, not that mobile...don’t see anything that warranted the contract he got at the start of the season ...

Obviously others do - but for me, can’t see him being a first team regular ....

Gullan looks like he has done some development at Raith - so will be interesting to see him get some game time ...

[Brightside]

Reading McPakes comments, it was interesting to see that he’s been playing left midfield rather than left back for them in the last couple of games.

Mentioned that he’s made 12 appearances which didn’t strike me as very many. Don’t know if he had a spell out the team, was injured etc.

Mackie always been better at LM for me. Allows him to make the defensive mistakes that he can’t get away with at LB.

[Billy Whizz]

Mackie always been better at LM for me. Allows him to make the defensive mistakes that he can’t get away with at LB.

For me he is at his best in a 352

[bigwheel]

For me he is at his best in a 352

B....You’ll have seen him in the dev team
More than me...and you seem positive about him...do you see him being a regular for us ?? Interested in your view ....

[Smartie]

I've not seen enough of Gullan to comment but I'm not convinced about any of the other youngsters - Shaw, Fraser Murray or Mackie are good enough. I realise this isn't a popular opinion.

Porteous is good enough.

[Billy Whizz]

B....You’ll have seen him in the dev team
More than me...and you seem positive about him...do you see him being a regular for us ?? Interested in your view ....

Sorry are we talking Hammer or Mackie

[Unseen work]

Delighted by this.

Iv been saying for a while I think he is most likely to be successful for us, he has a bit of power behind him and is capable of going inside or outside his man. Good close control and brilliant strike on him.

Murray for me is good technically and receiving the ball on the half turn but I’m just unsure where he fits in. Not a winger and won’t get in ahead of Allan or Mallan.

Shaw is a bit unlucky imo, he’s a good finisher and I think if played consistently in this league would get decent stats but his career has just stalled. Think he should be getting a loan to another SPFL team.

Mackie is a tank of a boy with a great left foot and is good at going past his man, got a lot of attributes to work with and develop in a position we’re struggling. Agree that he’s more of a midfielder than full back

[B.H.F.C]

Mackie has a wand of a left foot ..top skills there - other than that I don’t see it ..can’t defend, not that mobile...don’t see anything that warranted the contract he got at the start of the season ...

Obviously others do - but for me, can’t see him being a first team regular ....

Gullan looks like he has done some development at Raith - so will be interesting to see him get some game time ...

I agree on Mackie. When Lewis was out he really had a chance to cement his place in the team and didn’t take it. I’m one who thinks Lewis needs replaced but I don’t think Mackie is the one to do it and I’d be surprised if he gets such a chance again.

In fairness to him, it probably didn’t help that we were a shambles under Heckingbottom, when he did have that opportunity.

[Bostonhibby]

Hopefully. No loans, permanent deals only. Gullan deserves his chance to make an impact at least off the bench. Realistically the best we will do is top 6 so perfect opportunity to blood some of the youngsters in second part of the seasonAgree with this, a goal scorer in the if they're good enough they're old enough mode is overdue.

I know it's raith but....

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[calumhibee1]

I've not seen enough of Gullan to comment but I'm not convinced about any of the other youngsters - Shaw, Fraser Murray or Mackie are good enough. I realise this isn't a popular opinion.

Porteous is good enough.

:agree:

[bigwheel]

Sorry are we talking Hammer or Mackie

Mackie

[TimeForHeroes16]

Every time Murray gets a chance he does well enough I think his last 2 starts he’s had a assist in each game

[overdrive]

I've not seen enough of Gullan to comment but I'm not convinced about any of the other youngsters - Shaw, Fraser Murray or Mackie are good enough. I realise this isn't a popular opinion.

Porteous is good enough.

I’d agree with this. I really don’t get the clamour for Murray to be in the team. He’s easily dispossessed of the ball and is painfully slow (like many of our players to be fair).

[PatHead]

I wonder if Jamie Gullan is going to be loaned to a Championship or lower Premiership team to help him develop. Maybe we felt he needed a stiffer challenge to develop further.
Has anyone heard anything?

[PatHead]

I’d agree with this. I really don’t get the clamour for Murray to be in the team. He’s easily dispossessed of the ball and is painfully slow (like many of our players to be fair).

It takes time for young players to adapt to first team football. Another player who needs more game time.

[SquashedFrogg]

I’d agree with this. I really don’t get the clamour for Murray to be in the team. He’s easily dispossessed of the ball and is painfully slow (like many of our players to be fair).

Painfully slow? Not sure how you quantify his pace/speed?
I'd say he's anything but painfully slow. Would you describe Scott Allan in terms of pace?

For me he's a cracking young player. Good touch and vision. Can play in a number of attacking positions. His wee dink through to McNulty v the sheep last season was sublime.

All IMO of course.

[Robbo6-2]

The development of this particular group of players by the club has been pretty shocking really.

The team won the Scottish youth cup and pretty much had the better of all other clubs including Old Firm. To have one player make the break through in Porteous is pretty poor.

The merry go round of managers hasnt helped but Murray Shaw should be first team regulars by now.

Heckys development of them was one of the reasons I believe he was sacked. He smashed Oli Shaws confidence to bits. Bringing him on with 5-10 mins to go, totally out of position out wide and publically slaughtering him was terrible man management.

Dempster once stated Shaw was one of the best youngsters in Europe for his age, which was maybe slightly exaggerated but what we had was a striker banging them in the development side and was head and shoulders above everyone for his age. A Scottish under 21 internationalist who has all the attributes to be a top striker who is now being suggested on here to go out on loan to Raith ******g Rovers! Absolutely criminal imo.

[MWHIBBIES]

The development of this particular group of players by the club has been pretty shocking really.

The team won the Scottish youth cup and pretty much had the better of all other clubs including Old Firm. To have one player make the break through in Porteous is pretty poor.

The merry go round of managers hasnt helped but Murray Shaw should be first team regulars by now.

Heckys development of them was one of the reasons I believe he was sacked. He smashed Oli Shaws confidence to bits. Bringing him on with 5-10 mins to go, totally out of position out wide and publically slaughtering him was terrible man management.

Dempster once stated Shaw was one of the best youngsters in Europe for his age, which was maybe slightly exaggerated but what we had was a striker banging them in the development side and was head and shoulders above everyone for his age. A Scottish under 21 internationalist who has all the attributes to be a top striker who is now being suggested on here to go out on loan to Raith ******g Rovers! Absolutely criminal imo.
Couldn't agree more.

[B.H.F.C]

The development of this particular group of players by the club has been pretty shocking really.

The team won the Scottish youth cup and pretty much had the better of all other clubs including Old Firm. To have one player make the break through in Porteous is pretty poor.

The merry go round of managers hasnt helped but Murray Shaw should be first team regulars by now.

Heckys development of them was one of the reasons I believe he was sacked. He smashed Oli Shaws confidence to bits. Bringing him on with 5-10 mins to go, totally out of position out wide and publically slaughtering him was terrible man management.

Dempster once stated Shaw was one of the best youngsters in Europe for his age, which was maybe slightly exaggerated but what we had was a striker banging them in the development side and was head and shoulders above everyone for his age. A Scottish under 21 internationalist who has all the attributes to be a top striker who is now being suggested on here to go out on loan to Raith ******g Rovers! Absolutely criminal imo.

Depends how you look at it. I don’t think Shaw ever looked like he was going to develop in to a top striker. He showed some promise here and there but not enough IMO.

Football is littered with players that ‘had a chance’ but ended up nowhere. Some responsibility has to fall their way surely? I think we’ve simply always had better strikers on the books than him.

[Bangkok Hibby]

Couldn't agree more.

Yep, how you can say Shaw isnt good enough based on first team game time is mad

[The Modfather]

Yep, how you can say Shaw isnt good enough based on first team game time is mad

Good enough for what though? First pick? Backup? Cheap squad filler? I like Shaw, and think he has a case to make that we haven’t managed the development and first team experience of the likes of himself. Mackie, Murray & Porteous well at all. However Porteous has faced the same challenges and established himself anyway. There comes a time when we have to accept players won’t make it and time to give the next crop their chance (and actually give them their chance this time round!)

[MWHIBBIES]

Good enough for what though? First pick? Backup? Cheap squad filler? I like Shaw, and think he has a case to make that we haven’t managed the development and first team experience of the likes of himself. Mackie, Murray & Porteous well at all. However Porteous has faced the same challenges and established himself anyway. There comes a time when we have to accept players won’t make it and time to give the next crop their chance (and actually give them their chance this time round!)

Shaw done well and scored goals when given chances though. If Kamberi and Doidge got injured for months like Hanlon and McGregor then sure, it would be comparable. Porteous didn't get regular games till he had to.

Shaw is definitely good enough to be a solid back up and thats absolutely fine.

[weecounty hibby]

I don't see the development team at all but from watching them in the first XI I would say that Shaw is a squad player at best and may leave to play somewhere like St Johnstone, Dundee, Falkirk and Murray will not make it at the top level in Scotland, again probably a player for the likes of the teams mentioned. I would suggest that from my limited views of Murray that Wotherspoon was better than him and he struggled for game time and also left us

[MWHIBBIES]

I don't see the development team at all but from watching them in the first XI I would say that Shaw is a squad player at best and may leave to play somewhere like St Johnstone, Dundee, Falkirk and Murray will not make it at the top level in Scotland, again probably a player for the likes of the teams mentioned. I would suggest that from my limited views of Murray that Wotherspoon was better than him and he struggled for game time and also left us

Wotherspoon was bizarre, he definitely didn't struggle for game time. Only missed 4 league matches then was freed. Won the Scottish cup 12 months later as Hibs got relegated. Think Stubbs could've done wonders with him, given him real confidence.

[Brooster]

Have said it for years....the progression of youth to first team under Eddie May is less than impressive and will probably continue to be so as long as he is there.

[weecounty hibby]

Wotherspoon was bizarre, he definitely didn't struggle for game time. Only missed 4 league matches then was freed. Won the Scottish cup 12 months later as Hibs got relegated. Think Stubbs could've done wonders with him, given him real confidence.

On reflection, your right. But I think he was better than Murray. If we seriously want to be challenging then Murray isn't the answer. Glad Wotherspoon won the cup as if I recall correctly he didn't even make the squads for our finals when here.

[wookie70]

I don't see the development team at all but from watching them in the first XI I would say that Shaw is a squad player at best and may leave to play somewhere like St Johnstone, Dundee, Falkirk and Murray will not make it at the top level in Scotland, again probably a player for the likes of the teams mentioned. I would suggest that from my limited views of Murray that Wotherspoon was better than him and he struggled for game time and also left us

Wotherspoon is a good example. Left after limited game time here and forged a very good career at a club who consistently finished above us. Porteous has possibly been developed too quickly but is lucky in that he has the support of the fans even though he has made lots of mistakes. He looks to have that gallous streak where mistakes won't bother him and I'm sure he will make it if he can learn. He has the opportunity because he is getting game time.

Murray looks a player to me but he and Shaw need to play. If the current manager is of the same mind as the previous 2 then get them out on loan to develop because they will go nowhere sitting on the bench and playing development games.

[B.H.F.C]

Yep, how you can say Shaw isnt good enough based on first team game time is mad

He’s hardly figured this season but he played 56 times in the two previous seasons. That’s a lot more opportunity than most players coming through an academy will get.

[J-C]

Wotherspoon was bizarre, he definitely didn't struggle for game time. Only missed 4 league matches then was freed. Won the Scottish cup 12 months later as Hibs got relegated. Think Stubbs could've done wonders with him, given him real confidence.
Playing him way out of position was why he left, I spoke to him on the bus going to that cup final and he gave that as his reason for leaving. He's played as a proper attacking midfielder at St Johnstone and has done well for them.

[CorrieHibs]

The development of this particular group of players by the club has been pretty shocking really.

The team won the Scottish youth cup and pretty much had the better of all other clubs including Old Firm. To have one player make the break through in Porteous is pretty poor.

The merry go round of managers hasnt helped but Murray Shaw should be first team regulars by now.

Heckys development of them was one of the reasons I believe he was sacked. He smashed Oli Shaws confidence to bits. Bringing him on with 5-10 mins to go, totally out of position out wide and publically slaughtering him was terrible man management.

Dempster once stated Shaw was one of the best youngsters in Europe for his age, which was maybe slightly exaggerated but what we had was a striker banging them in the development side and was head and shoulders above everyone for his age. A Scottish under 21 internationalist who has all the attributes to be a top striker who is now being suggested on here to go out on loan to Raith ******g Rovers! Absolutely criminal imo.

Well said.

Especially when we look at Motherwell whom are doing extremely well whilst playing a lot of youngsters from their development team.

[Unseen work]

Wotherspoon isn’t comparable to Murray.

Played far far more games and had showed a lot more ability imo, not even close. Must have played more than 100 games for us and was regularly a starter either out wide, central or right back.

Wotherspoon is a decent SPFL player.

[jacomo]

The development of this particular group of players by the club has been pretty shocking really.

The team won the Scottish youth cup and pretty much had the better of all other clubs including Old Firm. To have one player make the break through in Porteous is pretty poor.

The merry go round of managers hasnt helped but Murray Shaw should be first team regulars by now.

Heckys development of them was one of the reasons I believe he was sacked. He smashed Oli Shaws confidence to bits. Bringing him on with 5-10 mins to go, totally out of position out wide and publically slaughtering him was terrible man management.

Dempster once stated Shaw was one of the best youngsters in Europe for his age, which was maybe slightly exaggerated but what we had was a striker banging them in the development side and was head and shoulders above everyone for his age. A Scottish under 21 internationalist who has all the attributes to be a top striker who is now being suggested on here to go out on loan to Raith ******g Rovers! Absolutely criminal imo.


Agree with all this.

We tend to bemoan our youngsters for not being good enough but as a group they excelled. So you have to start wondering why Hibs are failing to bring more young players through into the first team.

Something in our set up isn’t right.

[ancient hibee]

I think that it’s all down to the dreadful recruitment in the summer.I think that those involved in that disastrous waste of resources still on the staff are instrumental in filling the squad with these no-hopers so as to justify bringing them to the club and resulting in a lack of game time for young players.That the head of recruitment has been promoted to director of football defies belief and is something I hope to be able to raise at the AGM.

[wookie70]

Wotherspoon isn’t comparable to Murray.

Played far far more games and had showed a lot more ability imo, not even close. Must have played more than 100 games for us and was regularly a starter either out wide, central or right back.

Wotherspoon is a decent SPFL player.

I had no idea he played so many games so you are spot on that he is not comparable to the current crop. I was surprised he left but looks like it was the right move for him.

[Billy Whizz]

I had no idea he played so many games so you are spot on that he is not comparable to the current crop. I was surprised he left but looks like it was the right move for him.

Left because Fenlon had treated him like crap. Didn’t even meet the bench in the 2 Cup Finals, yet lesser players did!

[bingo70]

Agree with all this.

We tend to bemoan our youngsters for not being good enough but as a group they excelled. So you have to start wondering why Hibs are failing to bring more young players through into the first team.

Something in our set up isn’t right.

I think the problem is too many people put too much emphasis on the young teams being successful and winning trophies. Imo it means nothing, well it’s great for the players but it means nothing in terms of their development to the first team.

If the young team are winning trophies but they’re beating teams who have all their best young players in the first team I know who’s got the most successful youth set up and it’s not the ones lifting the trophies.

I know it’s not a popular opinion but the young players that can’t break into the first team and keep their place simply aren’t good enough. Football is a tough environment, if they can’t break into the team and make an immediate impact they probably won’t get another chance. If they do get another chance they need to keep taking them, doing what Shaw has done will see him replaced, he won’t keep getting chances forever.

I (think) i remember when Scott Brown and KT broke through, you knew straight away they would make it as they had that swagger, that arrogance and once they were in they wouldn’t be giving up their place without a fight. I see that attitude with Porteous, I don’t with Shaw, Murray or Mackie.

[B.H.F.C]

Agree with all this.

We tend to bemoan our youngsters for not being good enough but as a group they excelled. So you have to start wondering why Hibs are failing to bring more young players through into the first team.

Something in our set up isn’t right.

Maybe it’s not all to do with the set up at development level, maybe it’s partly to do with what happens when they actually get in to the first team.

Porteous, IMO, is suffering from not having enough players around him to help him. We have ‘good’ pros in terms of the way the look after themselves and all that but are they capable of looking after the young players on the pitch?

Murray is the only one who hasn’t had a real crack at it. Shaw has made over 50 appearances and, IMO, it’s just a case that he’s not good enough. I’ve never felt he was going to make the position his own.

Don’t know what the answer is but I don’t think there are many teams in the league who do a particularly good job at bringing young players through. Hamilton do it out of necessity. Motherwell are thrown round as an example but I don’t think there are that many players in their first 11 who have come through their system.

[J-C]

Could it not just be the case that the 3-4 young players who were good enough should've been sent on loan 2 years ago, instead they've hung around the squad as fillers with the odd few minutes here and there. Years ago these young lads got there experience from going on loans, just like Riordan, GOC, Hanlon etc.

[DTS]

For me Mackie Shaw Gullan and Murray could all make it, I think Gullan and Mackie now have the best chance though with shaw the least. For me shaw has almost been a victim of his own early promise, since the season we first came back up he looked good enough to be 3rd/4th choice and that reflected in the goals he scored in they seasons probably resulting in him not getting the loan spell and in turn the games he needs, he has proved he can finish and in spells handle the top flight I think a loan at a St Johnstone who were linked massively in the summer but hecky said no would do him wonders. Murray for me should’ve been loaned out last year but I think he had a bad injury and has also shown in games he has a lot of ability so again probably not a player we want to lose completely in terms of a loan. Gullan and Mackie both look better athletes than the other two and I think the game time they’re getting now will aid them, even if Gullan steps up to the championship this window id expect him to be in and around the first team next year

[Smartie]

Could it not just be the case that the 3-4 young players who were good enough should've been sent on loan 2 years ago, instead they've hung around the squad as fillers with the odd few minutes here and there. Years ago these young lads got there experience from going on loans, just like Riordan, GOC, Hanlon etc.

The "golden generation" and others have found themselves in the team through necessity as the first team was a bit pish, but they made their mark and stayed there. There have been spaces up for grabs last season and this if the young lads had been good enough but they haven't been able to force their way in and stay there unfortunately. I mean - it's a long way for a midfielder to get into the team ahead of McGinn, McGeouch or Allan, so that's when they'd need to go on loan. Murray has seen us loan a Rangers player ahead of him. Shaw has barely had a sniff whilst watching Doidge die on his arse for our first 10 games this season whilst Kamberi played through injury. Stevenson is a favourite whipping boy but could anyone make any sort of case for Mackie starting ahead of him? We don't play a left midfielder so there's no space for him there.

Shaw I accept should have left and been playing regularly somewhere at least a year ago. If Shaw or Murray had gone away and done well on loan, we might be having a conversation about them coming back and being around the first team squad, a bit like we are with Gullan and Tommy Block. But in all honesty it is really getting hard to make any sort of case for them staying with us if they've struggled so badly to make an impact on our team of the past 18 months. They're not laddies of 16 or 17 - if they were going to make a significant impact at Hibs, they would be doing so by now.

[Andy74]

Left because Fenlon had treated him like crap. Didn’t even meet the bench in the 2 Cup Finals, yet lesser players did!

He didn’t really deserve his place at that point though. Him and Cairney started well for Fenlon but they weren’t consistent enough to be relied upon.

He’s been okay for St Johnstone. Not much more than that. You hear about him every 6 months or so when he does something alright. Probably much less than that now.

If he hadn’t started with us no one would ever have said he should have been a Hibs player.

[easty]

If he hadn’t started with us no one would ever have said he should have been a Hibs player.

Yep.

He’s a half decent SPL player. I wouldn’t want him back. He wouldn’t improve us.

[JimBHibees]

Could it not just be the case that the 3-4 young players who were good enough should've been sent on loan 2 years ago, instead they've hung around the squad as fillers with the odd few minutes here and there. Years ago these young lads got there experience from going on loans, just like Riordan, GOC, Hanlon etc.

They probably would have benefited from loans however it is a balance as Shaw in particular was getting reasonable first team game time season or so ago. They have to prove they are better than who is in the team they do that by flying in training and making a huge impact when they do get the chance. Appreciate both Shaw and Murray have had very limited opportunity this season but assume they haven't impressed enough. Be interesting to see if they go in loan in this window.

[calumhibee1]

He didn’t really deserve his place at that point though. Him and Cairney started well for Fenlon but they weren’t consistent enough to be relied upon.

He’s been okay for St Johnstone. Not much more than that. You hear about him every 6 months or so when he does something alright. Probably much less than that now.

If he hadn’t started with us no one would ever have said he should have been a Hibs player.

:agree:

Does he even start for them often?

[JimBHibees]

:agree:

Does he even start for them often?

Occasionally not every week I think. Saints do seem to have quite a big squad.

[eastcoasthibby]

I think Gullan will have a bigger impact on games than Shaw does, he has a much more workmanlike and committed attitude on the park, he isn't as passive as Shaw, think he works defenders harder as well ....I hate seeing a forward run towards or alongside a defender as "I am shutting them down impression " like most of ours do currently ..most of the time Doidge doesn't get close enough to even do that !!

[Brightside]

Gullan is a robust natural goal scorer. He will dip in and out of form for sure but he is worth a few games to see how’s he’s developed in his time away. I watched him play lowland league and he was a standout against much bigger players. He’s much more physical than Shaw.

[Smartie]

I think Gullan will have a bigger impact on games than Shaw does, he has a much more workmanlike and committed attitude on the park, he isn't as passive as Shaw, think he works defenders harder as well ....I hate seeing a forward run towards or alongside a defender as "I am shutting them down impression " like most of ours do currently ..most of the time Doidge doesn't get close enough to even do that !!

Simon Murray, for all his faults, was good at shutting defenders (and goalkeepers) down - not passively pretending to, actually doing it.

Murray and Martin Boyle have been our players who are best at this - quick and industrious.

[bingo70]

Gullan is a robust natural goal scorer. He will dip in and out of form for sure but he is worth a few games to see how’s he’s developed in his time away. I watched him play lowland league and he was a standout against much bigger players. He’s much more physical than Shaw.

Being physical isn’t the be all and end all but it’s important to have one strong attribute.

To me Shaw isn’t strong, isn’t quick and doesn’t score from outside the box. Imo you need to have one of those attributes to make it at the level we want to be at.

I’ve not seen anywhere near enough of Gullane to have an opinion either way but if it’s true he’s got a great shot on him from distance and is powerful he’ll stand a chance imo.

[hibs#1]

The best way for young players to develop is to play games Shaw and Murray imo would be far further along if they could have played 50+ games at lower level. Unless Gullan is going to get game time here I think he'd be far better off staying at Raith for the rest of the season.

[GreenCastle]

Simon Murray, for all his faults, was good at shutting defenders (and goalkeepers) down - not passively pretending to, actually doing it.

Murray and Martin Boyle have been our players who are best at this - quick and industrious.

Yup.

I personally would have kept Murray as you could never fault his work rate and I felt like Boyle he would improve over time with better players around him and coaching.

Gullan has impressed me in games I’ve watched as others pointed out he works hard and very direct with the ball.

Shaw and Murray - another poster made a good point above about finding themselves stuck in middle - 1st team squad but not getting the minutes they need to develop.

I would loan both out and allow them to build up confidence and gain minutes. Ideally a team doing well in lower leagues.

Hopefully Gullan will come back and do well as would be nice to see a young player be more involved.

[hibs#1]

Yup.

I personally would have kept Murray as you could never fault his work rate and I felt like Boyle he would improve over time with better players around him and coaching.

Gullan has impressed me in games I’ve watched as others pointed out he works hard and very direct with the ball.

Shaw and Murray - another poster made a good point above about finding themselves stuck in middle - 1st team squad but not getting the minutes they need to develop.

I would loan both out and allow them to build up confidence and gain minutes. Ideally a team doing well in lower leagues.

Hopefully Gullan will come back and do well as would be nice to see a young player be more involved.


I liked Simon Murray as well and while maybe not the greatest player or most consistent goal scorer he had something to offer as a squad player.

[Billy Whizz]

Being physical isn’t the be all and end all but it’s important to have one strong attribute.

To me Shaw isn’t strong, isn’t quick and doesn’t score from outside the box. Imo you need to have one of those attributes to make it at the level we want to be at.

I’ve not seen anywhere near enough of Gullane to have an opinion either way but if it’s true he’s got a great shot on him from distance and is powerful he’ll stand a chance imo.

Completely different players. Oli is very quick and plays of the shoulder, Hammer is more of a player taking the ball deep, and driving at defenders
They complemented each other really well at Development level. Just need to get Oli more game time, wherever that may be, and get him going again
Not sure exactly where Hammer’s best position is. Can play wide left or a no 10 role

[hibee-boys]

Some over thinking being done here....or maybe just excuses. There's been plenty examples of youth players coming through at Hibs in the past and nailing down a first team place. Bottom line is that (Porteous being the exception) that none of the most recent ones have had the skill of physical attributes that have warranted a decent first team run or shown that they were any better than current first team regulars. Same nonsense was spouted about Handling, Stanton, Harris etc....how many of these players go on to play at a better level than Hibs? You'll be able to file Mackie, Shaw, Murray under the same category soon enough. Harsh I know and yes an element can be placed at the door of their development, which should be a worry for Hibs, but the bottom line is that they've simply not been good enough.

[bigwheel]

Doesn’t that then pose the question about our approach to youth recruitment and development ? We are spending more than a lot of our competition, yet Lots of youngsters are breaking through across the country, if we have one or none...then what are they doing right that we aren’t ?




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[Eyrie]

Doesn’t that then pose the question about our approach to youth recruitment and development ? We are spending more than a lot of our competition, yet Lots of youngsters are breaking through across the country, if we have one or none...then what are they doing right that we aren’t ?




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It's been a long term problem at Hibs. Before Porteous, the last player that Hibs developed who became a first team regular was Hanlon.

[Bronson]

I’d agree with this. I really don’t get the clamour for Murray to be in the team. He’s easily dispossessed of the ball and is painfully slow (like many of our players to be fair).

I agree. The fans who watched him at youth level really believe in him but I’m yet to see any evidence he can make the step up unfortunately. I’m not even sure what kind of player he is and what he brings to the team.

I hope he proves us wrong, mind you.

[B.H.F.C]

The best way for young players to develop is to play games Shaw and Murray imo would be far further along if they could have played 50+ games at lower level. Unless Gullan is going to get game time here I think he'd be far better off staying at Raith for the rest of the season.

Shaw made over 50 appearances for us in the last two seasons. I’d guess probably about 20 of those were starts and plenty decent sub appearances as well.

This year you can certainly say there is no point in him being at Hibs, because he’s not getting any minutes. But he’s at an age now where it’s not about loaning him to develop him, he’s not a young laddie any more who hasn’t had a chance. If he goes out it’s because he’s not adding anything to the squad.

If he’d been playing at a lower level, given the chances he has had at Hibs, I don’t think he’d be any better off.

[Billy Whizz]

I agree. The fans who watched him at youth level really believe in him but I’m yet to see any evidence he can make the step up unfortunately. I’m not even sure what kind of player he is and what he brings to the team.

I hope he proves us wrong, mind you.

He’s only 20, and missed a chunk of last season with an injury
Fraser can play anywhere middle to front, think Jack needs to find his best position
He’s also 2 footed and can score goals, great with corners

[bigwheel]

He’s only 20, and missed a chunk of last season with an injury
Fraser can play anywhere middle to front, think Jack needs to find his best position
He’s also 2 footed and can score goals, great with corners

Looked ahead of his time at 17, but his development has been hampered with injury. could do with a loan to get 15-20 games under his belt...come back and give it a teal go next season......


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[bigwheel]

It's been a long term problem at Hibs. Before Porteous, the last player that Hibs developed who became a first team regular was Hanlon.

Think it is an area that need change...hopefully Mathie will refresh our approach and we start to get better results......


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[JimBHibees]

Simon Murray, for all his faults, was good at shutting defenders (and goalkeepers) down - not passively pretending to, actually doing it.

Murray and Martin Boyle have been our players who are best at this - quick and industrious.

Is Simon Murray currently looking for a club as saw him in St Andrews yesterday?

[500miles]

Is Simon Murray currently looking for a club as saw him in St Andrews yesterday?

Got a bad injury in South Africa early in the season. Still in recovery.

[The Modfather]

He’s only 20, and missed a chunk of last season with an injury
Fraser can play anywhere middle to front, think Jack needs to find his best position
He’s also 2 footed and can score goals, great with corners

I reckon In 2 or 3 years we’ll still be talking about Murray’s injury. It’s undoubtedly a set back but he’s not the first youngster to have had an injury set back, only have to look at Porteous.

Murray, from my admittedly fleeting glimpses of him, looks to have potential but is a bit of a jack of all trades master of none for me. Very rarely do players get to Murray’s age with as little first team experience and still make it. I think he’ll make a career for himself but will be the same way of Harris, Stanton etc.

[calumhibee1]

I reckon In 2 or 3 years we’ll still be talking about Murray’s injury. It’s undoubtedly a set back but he’s not the first youngster to have had an injury set back, only have to look at Porteous.

Murray, from my admittedly fleeting glimpses of him, looks to have potential but is a bit of a jack of all trades master of none for me. Very rarely do players get to Murray’s age with as little first team experience and still make it. I think he’ll make a career for himself but will be the same way of Harris, Stanton etc.

Pretty much how I see it. I like Fraser and thought he looked really promising when he broke through but like you I think he'd have broken through by now if he was going to make it. The likes of JC had 60 games and 23 goals under his belt by his age.

[hibs#1]

Shaw made over 50 appearances for us in the last two seasons. I’d guess probably about 20 of those were starts and plenty decent sub appearances as well.

This year you can certainly say there is no point in him being at Hibs, because he’s not getting any minutes. But he’s at an age now where it’s not about loaning him to develop him, he’s not a young laddie any more who hasn’t had a chance. If he goes out it’s because he’s not adding anything to the squad.

If he’d been playing at a lower level, given the chances he has had at Hibs, I don’t think he’d be any better off.

Yes probably should have worded my point better, I was more meaning previously get 50-60 games on loan and then being better equipped to play for hibs.

I agree he isn't as young now but he still would develop far better if he was out on loan this season. Players won't improve sitting on the bench.

[KdyHby]

Jamie scored Rovers second today, tap in

[grunt]

Jamie scored Rovers second today, tap in

BBC says Baird scored?

[green day]

BBC says Baird scored?

It was Gullan.

According to the radio guy the stadium announcer got it wrong and all the outlets ran with it.......he than changed it to JG.

[KdyHby]

BBC says Baird scored?

Am at the match, initially announced as Baird, then corrected

[Robbo6-2]

Am at the match, initially announced as Baird, then corrected

Hows he playing and what position is he playing?

[bingo70]

Sean Mackie is getting slated on Twitter by the Dundee fans.

Sounds like he’s having a shocker today, few Dundee fans saying he’s the worst player they’ve ever seen.

[green day]

Sean Mackie is getting slated on Twitter by the Dundee fans.

Sounds like he’s having a shocker today, few Dundee fans saying he’s the worst player they’ve ever seen.

And yet they raved about his performance v United

[grunt]

It was Gullan. According to the radio guy the stadium announcer got it wrong and all the outlets ran with it.......he than changed it to JG.


Am at the match, initially announced as Baird, then correctedThank you both. I really should know better than to believe the BBC.

[calumhibee1]

Sean Mackie is getting slated on Twitter by the Dundee fans.

Sounds like he’s having a shocker today, few Dundee fans saying he’s the worst player they’ve ever seen.

They said the same about Martin Boyle.

That being said, I highly doubt Mackie will make it here.

[SquashedFrogg]

Sean Mackie is getting slated on Twitter by the Dundee fans.

Sounds like he’s having a shocker today, few Dundee fans saying he’s the worst player they’ve ever seen.

Twitter opinions. Gotta love em.

[Stuart93]

Sean Mackie is getting slated on Twitter by the Dundee fans.

Sounds like he’s having a shocker today, few Dundee fans saying he’s the worst player they’ve ever seen.

Every time I’ve seen him either for us or dundee a few times I’ve never been overly impressed

Was half decent against Dundee Utd but nothing more than that

I’ve never got the hype

[loveofthegame]

https://youtu.be/DvoOBArZKmY

Goal yesterday at 4:30ish

[Jones28]

Every time I’ve seen him either for us or dundee a few times I’ve never been overly impressed

Was half decent against Dundee Utd but nothing more than that

I’ve never got the hype

I think he played well last season when given the chance, he ****ed it at Ibrox.

[Onceinawhile]

https://youtu.be/DvoOBArZKmY

Goal yesterday at 4:30ish

Decent move for the goal, easy finish, but he was in the right place.

Is starks Park an astro now?

[Greencore]

Reading online he used to play for hearts. Any reason why they let him go?

[Billy Whizz]

Reading online he used to play for hearts. Any reason why they let him go?

For what I’m told, Levein had the chance to give a professional contract to Jamie or another Hearts player, who’s name escapes me, and Jamie wasn’t the chosen one
Delighted to have him at Hibs

[Allant1981]

Staying at raith on loan for one game

[hibbysam]

Staying at raith on loan

Just for the one game (while we don’t have any games) and will be in the reckoning for the Dundee United game (provided he isn’t cup-tied?)

[Allant1981]

Just for the one game (while we don’t have any games) and will be in the reckoning for the Dundee United game (provided he isn’t cup-tied?)

Just read that!

[Billy Whizz]

Just for the one game (while we don’t have any games) and will be in the reckoning for the Dundee United game (provided he isn’t cup-tied?)

He isn’t cup tied

[offshorehibby]

I take it he's away in Spain with rest of the squad

Just noticed this.

He travelled to Spain this morning with the rest of our squad and will be put through his paces this week before returning to Scotland early on Friday.

[hibbysam]

He isn’t cup tied

Even better. Nothing worse than him hitting the ground running and then having to sit out a cup tie. Would imagine he would be involved next week then!