The Speed & Force Of A Tackle Only Matter When You Don’t Cleanly Take The Ball

[judas]

Derek Mcinnes said this tonight on Sportsound, presumably referencing the Cosgrove sending off. Again it sounds like player reactions made the decision for our weak refs.

I agree.

On that basis Portos tackle absolutely fair and not a bookable offence.

[Hibbyradge]

That's not correct though.

[marinello59]

McInnes is speaking *****. Again.

[greenlex]

Games way too soft.

[tamig]

The game has changed and you can’t tackle like that now. McInnes is talking nonsense.

[The dalmeny]

There isn't any reference in the laws about 'taking the ball cleanly'

[MWHIBBIES]

Not true at all. Think about it. You've taken the opposition players head clean off but you won the ball? Hmmm

Ryan was definitely excessive and dangerous last night. Hoping he learns from it because hes missing another vital game because of it. Extremely silly.

[brianmc]

There isn't any reference in the laws about 'taking the ball cleanly'

^^this is spot on and I can't quite figure out why people don't understand it.

Everyone posting on here is clearly (a) a football fan, and (b) has internet access.

So how the f*** can it appear that so many are oblivious to the Laws of the Game?????

What kind of moron would spend hundreds of pounds each year following a game they don't even understand the basic 'rules' of?

*I imagine it's the kind of moron that would likely then post angry remarks on an internet forum deriding the rules (Laws) they don't understand.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion BUT they can't all have their own facts.

Read The Laws of the Game folks FFS.

[Sammy7nil]

It does not matter if you punch someone square in the puss it is only about the force :wink:

[Brightside]

Derek Mcinnes said this tonight on Sportsound, presumably referencing the Cosgrove sending off. Again it sounds like player reactions made the decision for our weak refs.

I agree.

On that basis Portos tackle absolutely fair and not a bookable offence.

He wrong though. McInnes is incredibly thick.

[nonshinyfinish]

That McInnes quote is basically a more eloquent version of "but but but he got the ball".

I actually think Porto was hard done by, not because he got the ball, but because in the replays I've seen his foot is low by the time it reaches the Sevco player and I don't think it was excessively forceful. I can understand why it might be seen as a red card tackle though.

People need to let go of the idea of getting the ball. If a tackle is reckless or dangerous, getting the ball changes nothing.

[Wheat Hound]

Right, forget about taking the ball, Porteous' challenge was robust but still not high or studs into shins etc to justify a red card, otherwise the game is really up the spout and we'd be as well calling it a non contact sport.

[Vault Boy]

Right, forget about taking the ball, Porteous' challenge was robust but still not high or studs into shins etc to justify a red card, otherwise the game is really up the spout and we'd be as well calling it a non contact sport.

There are about a thousand notches between Porteous' tackle and a non contact sport.

[Iggy Pope]

There are about a thousand notches between Porteous' tackle and a non contact sport.

A thousand? Give me two.

[we are hibs]

Lets hope no hibs player dares to slide tackle on thursday or half this forum will be watching the game through their fingers. Winning the ball isnt a red card. Its that simple

[marinello59]

Lets hope no hibs player dares to slide tackle on thursday or half this forum will be watching the game through their fingers. Winning the ball isnt a red card. Its that simple

Winning the ball does not mean a foul hasn’t occured. I’m gobsmacked that so many football fans don’t know that.

[Vault Boy]

A thousand? Give me two.

Given it's clearly a metaphor I won't. However it's quite obvious that there's a broad spectrum of acceptable physical contact in modern football between Porteous' challenge and non contact sport.

I won't go to the trouble of outlining every single way you're able to fairly physically challenge an opponent though.

[hibbysam]

^^this is spot on and I can't quite figure out why people don't understand it.

Everyone posting on here is clearly (a) a football fan, and (b) has internet access.

So how the f*** can it appear that so many are oblivious to the Laws of the Game?????

What kind of moron would spend hundreds of pounds each year following a game they don't even understand the basic 'rules' of?

*I imagine it's the kind of moron that would likely then post angry remarks on an internet forum deriding the rules (Laws) they don't understand.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion BUT they can't all have their own facts.

Read The Laws of the Game folks FFS.

Same as folk that say ‘studs up’ or ‘straight leg’ then? There’s absolutely no mention of that in the rules.

[we are hibs]

Winning the ball does not mean a foul hasn’t occured. I’m gobsmacked that so many football fans don’t know that.

Winning the ball means exactly that. Tell me how when someone is sliding (at any pace) how they can either slow down, keep their foot low and/or not make contact with an opponent? Its impossible.

[hibeerealist]

^^this is spot on and I can't quite figure out why people don't understand it.

Everyone posting on here is clearly (a) a football fan, and (b) has internet access.

So how the f*** can it appear that so many are oblivious to the Laws of the Game?????

What kind of moron would spend hundreds of pounds each year following a game they don't even understand the basic 'rules' of?

*I imagine it's the kind of moron that would likely then post angry remarks on an internet forum deriding the rules (Laws) they don't understand.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion BUT they can't all have their own facts.

Read The Laws of the Game folks FFS.

FFS, the master has spoken listen up! Give it a rest, it is a forum and many people have different opinions. Aye the rules may have changed since the snowflakes took over but not every tackle similar to Porto’s last night is given a red card.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Debate the semantics of his comments all night.

This is him in full regret mode because he rejected the Hun gig.

[Brightside]

Lets hope no hibs player dares to slide tackle on thursday or half this forum will be watching the game through their fingers. Winning the ball isnt a red card. Its that simple

Its obv not that simple as you are 100% wrong.

[lord bunberry]

^^this is spot on and I can't quite figure out why people don't understand it.

Everyone posting on here is clearly (a) a football fan, and (b) has internet access.

So how the f*** can it appear that so many are oblivious to the Laws of the Game?????

What kind of moron would spend hundreds of pounds each year following a game they don't even understand the basic 'rules' of?

*I imagine it's the kind of moron that would likely then post angry remarks on an internet forum deriding the rules (Laws) they don't understand.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion BUT they can't all have their own facts.

Read The Laws of the Game folks FFS.
It’s not a question of being oblivious to the laws of the game, it’s the interpretation of the laws of the game. Everyone is aware that you can’t use the justification of winning the ball if you then wipe your opponent out after that. There was minimal contact during the follow through and the referee didn’t even award a foul. I suspect the reaction from the bench and the hun players coupled with a word in the referees ear changed his decision to award a throw in.
And why can’t you make a point without calling people morons or other insulting terms, I’ve noticed that it’s something you do a lot. Would you say that to someone face to face?

[we are hibs]

Its obv not that simple as you are 100% wrong.

Im not though.

[Iggy Pope]

Given it's clearly a metaphor I won't. However it's quite obvious that there's a broad spectrum of acceptable physical contact in modern football between Porteous' challenge and non contact sport.

I won't go to the trouble of outlining every single way you're able to fairly physically challenge an opponent though.

Didn’t look metaphoric to me if I’m honest and not at all clear. I still can’t see two notches. The red didn’t surprise me but I might not have been surprised if it was yellow or even a free kick. Didn’t look a thousand times nasty.

[Vault Boy]

Didn’t look metaphoric to me if I’m honest and not at all clear. I still can’t see two notches. The red didn’t surprise me but I might not have been surprised if it was yellow or even a free kick. Didn’t look a thousand times nasty.

If you don't get that it's metaphoric rather than there being 1000 literal notches then I can't say much more on that.

My point wasn't that Porteous' tackle was the worst of the worst, but that the fact it was a foul doesn't mean the 'games gone and is as good as non contact.'

You really agree with that?

[marinello59]

Winning the ball means exactly that. Tell me how when someone is sliding (at any pace) how they can either slow down, keep their foot low and/or not make contact with an opponent? Its impossible.

I may have misunderstood you. There are a lot of football fans who think that if the ball is won in any tackle then a foul can not have occurred which is not true. I thought that was the defence you were making.

[Iggy Pope]

If you don't get that it's metaphoric rather than there being 1000 literal notches then I can't say much more on that.

My point wasn't that Porteous' tackle was the worst of the worst, but that the fact it was a foul doesn't mean the 'games gone and is as good as non contact.'

You really agree with that?

No, and that’s putting words on to my thumbs. I don’t think it’s worthy of a red (if it’s a foul) and can’t see the thousand notches between it being otherwise. If contact (in such a tackle) results in a red then perhaps we are looking at non contact.

Don’t you agree?

[Vault Boy]

No, and that’s putting words on to my thumbs. I don’t think it’s worthy of a red (if it’s a foul) and can’t see the thousand notches between it being otherwise. If contact (in such a tackle) results in a red then perhaps we are looking at non contact.

Don’t you agree?

No I don't. There's a huge difference between that being a foul and having a non contact sport. I honestly can't see how someone could suggest otherwise, but there we are.

[Iggy Pope]

No I don't. There's a huge difference between that being a foul and having a non contact sport. I honestly can't see how someone could suggest otherwise, but there we are.

Serious question - were you in Norwich when you seen it for the first time? I’m not sure I thought it was even a foul live.

[Vault Boy]

Serious question - were you in Norwich when you seen it for the first time? I’m not sure I thought it was even a foul live.

I wasn't at Easter Road, but I also didn't think it was a foul initially.

[Iggy Pope]

I wasn't at Easter Road, but I also didn't think it was a foul initially.

OK let’s leave it there.

[Tomsk]

By what measure is excessive force calculated?

Can someone please provide a reference in the laws of the game where it states anything about straight legs or studs up or follow through?

Is the tackle here any different materially from Porteous' tackle last night?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx7fjd0ZC28

[Allant1981]

^^this is spot on and I can't quite figure out why people don't understand it.

Everyone posting on here is clearly (a) a football fan, and (b) has internet access.

So how the f*** can it appear that so many are oblivious to the Laws of the Game?????

What kind of moron would spend hundreds of pounds each year following a game they don't even understand the basic 'rules' of?

*I imagine it's the kind of moron that would likely then post angry remarks on an internet forum deriding the rules (Laws) they don't understand.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion BUT they can't all have their own facts.

Read The Laws of the Game folks FFS.

Do you know every single law of the game, I highly doubt it, how to come over sounding like a twat

[Hibernia&Alba]

Games way too soft.

I agree. We are well on the way to tackling being removed from the game. Nobody wants to see players hurt, but there has to be a place for winning the ball firmly but fairly.

[Weegreenman]

Ok he got the ball first = great tackle?

But it was deemed aggressively excessive. 🤔

So what exactly is excessive? 🤔

I wouldn’t want to be a referee.

[ChilliEater]

By what measure is excessive force calculated?

Can someone please provide a reference in the laws of the game where it states anything about straight legs or studs up or follow through?

Is the tackle here any different materially from Porteous' tackle last night?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx7fjd0ZC28

I must be old - I think that tackle is fine :-)

[lyonhibs]

By what measure is excessive force calculated?

Can someone please provide a reference in the laws of the game where it states anything about straight legs or studs up or follow through?

Is the tackle here any different materially from Porteous' tackle last night?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx7fjd0ZC28

There's no contact between the tackler's legs and Miller for starters, clean as a whistle.

Every time a player leaves the ground, stretching, at pace and makes contact with the opposing player with their feet/legs, the colour of the card that follows is really in the lap of the gods whether they get the ball or not.

That's the reality of it and Porto etc would do well to use their noodle a bit more and stay on their feet. Especially that brain donor for Aberdeen, fully 95 yards from the goal he's defending ffs

[MWHIBBIES]

By what measure is excessive force calculated?

Can someone please provide a reference in the laws of the game where it states anything about straight legs or studs up or follow through?

Is the tackle here any different materially from Porteous' tackle last night?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx7fjd0ZC28

Mass x acceleration

[HibsGW]

Im not though.

Yes you are 😂

So 2 foot knee high tackles are fine as long as you get the ball? Aye, sounds exactly like the sport I’ve been watching the past 10 years 😂

[Brightside]

Anyone who coaches players now is encouraged to tell them to stay on their feet whenever possible. A sliding tackle should be a last ditch option only. 1. It’s very difficult to control. 2. You end up on the deck and out of the game. The game has moved on hugely on the last 10 years. Slide tackle are actively discouraged at youth level.

[hibbysam]

There's no contact between the tackler's legs and Miller for starters, clean as a whistle.

Every time a player leaves the ground, stretching, at pace and makes contact with the opposing player with their feet/legs, the colour of the card that follows is really in the lap of the gods whether they get the ball or not.

That's the reality of it and Porto etc would do well to use their noodle a bit more and stay on their feet. Especially that brain donor for Aberdeen, fully 95 yards from the goal he's defending ffs

There’s no contact with Miller? 😂 that tackle is 100x worse than Porto’s, if flipping a player through the air isn’t endangering then nothing is. It’s everything described in this thread, straight leg, arguably two footed, studs showing, and at a very high pace. The only difference as we know is that old firm games get refereed completely differently.

Also, I wish referees would stop making the ‘ball’ motion when a tackle is made and the player won the ball.

[Hibbyradge]

Winning the ball means exactly that. Tell me how when someone is sliding (at any pace) how they can either slow down, keep their foot low and/or not make contact with an opponent? Its impossible.

In that case, if they don't want to concede a foul, they shouldn't slide.

However, it's perfectly possible to win the ball, or knock it away from your opponent, without cleaning him out.

[Hibbyradge]

Im not though.

Winning the ball is not a foul, correct.

Cleaning the opponent out and using excessive force to do so, is.

If that tackle had been done by a Rangers player on, say, Scott Allen, you, along with thousands of others, would have been screaming at the ref to take action.

Jack Ross also thinks it was a red card tackle, btw, and says Porto needs to learn from it.

[FilipinoHibs]

Derek Mcinnes said this tonight on Sportsound, presumably referencing the Cosgrove sending off. Again it sounds like player reactions made the decision for our weak refs.

I agree.

On that basis Portos tackle absolutely fair and not a bookable offence.

You can take the ball but still commit an infringement in the laws. Taking the ball with such force as to hurt the purpose of hurting a player with the follow through is a straight red.

[Hibbyradge]

You can take the ball but still commit an infringement in the laws. Taking the ball with such force as to hurt the purpose of hurting a player with the follow through is a straight red.

It is indeed, even if you fail to make contact with the player.

[lyonhibs]

There’s no contact with Miller? 😂 that tackle is 100x worse than Porto’s, if flipping a player through the air isn’t endangering then nothing is. It’s everything described in this thread, straight leg, arguably two footed, studs showing, and at a very high pace. The only difference as we know is that old firm games get refereed completely differently.

Also, I wish referees would stop making the ‘ball’ motion when a tackle is made and the player won the ball.

No contact with Miller from the tacklers legs I clearly wrote :confused:

I've never heard of an attacker's leg being broken by a defender's rib cage

[MacGruber]

Winning the ball is not a foul, correct.

Cleaning the opponent out and using excessive force to do so, is.

If that tackle had been done by a Rangers player on, say, Scott Allen, you, along with thousands of others, would have been screaming at the ref to take action.

Jack Ross also thinks it was a red card tackle, btw, and says Porto needs to learn from it.

I don't think he cleaned him out, infact there is very little contact if any.

John Souttar won the ball at Tynie completely cleaning out Brandon Barker with follow through. Not 1 hibby thought red, just a good challenge.

I want red for the like of Harry Cochrane challenge on McGinn, late and not playing the ball.

In this rangers game the tackle was late, cynical, high, studs up, deliberately taking out the man with high follow through too - that was the Barisic tackle on Boyle, didn't even merit yellow

[hibbysam]

No contact with Miller from the tacklers legs I clearly wrote :confused:

I've never heard of an attacker's leg being broken by a defender's rib cage

I doubt it’s Miller’s leg that we need to worry about from that challenge, he fails to get his hands down and at that speed he’s getting a serious neck injury.

[Tomsk]

Mass x acceleration

This is an ecumenical matter.

[FilipinoHibs]

Ok he got the ball first = great tackle?

But it was deemed aggressively excessive. 🤔

So what exactly is excessive? 🤔

I wouldn’t want to be a referee.

I think it is subjective and if the referee thinks the tackler set out hurt the player. Those are the laws but you can't have an clear objective set of criteria. Why reds would not award anything and others a yellow for the Ryan tackle.

[tamig]

By what measure is excessive force calculated?

Can someone please provide a reference in the laws of the game where it states anything about straight legs or studs up or follow through?

Is the tackle here any different materially from Porteous' tackle last night?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx7fjd0ZC28
That’s not comparable to the Porteous challenge.

[Tomsk]

That’s not comparable to the Porteous challenge.

Thanks for clearing that up for all of us.

[greenlex]

That’s not comparable to the Porteous challenge.

Why is it not comparable? Strong , committed and cleanly takes the ball before his momentum takes him through his opponent without any real contact or injury. Very alike. Correctly called. Not even a foul.

[tamig]

Why is it not comparable? Strong , committed and cleanly takes the ball before his momentum takes him through his opponent without any real contact or injury. Very alike. Correctly called. Not even a foul.

Porteous’s follow through was far more reckless. The Celtic guy was practically flat on the ground. Looked like his hip collided with Miller as he jumped to avoid the tackle. His foot was flat in the follow through whereas Porteous foot was raised. Thats how I see it anyway.