Bobby Sands

[AgentDaleCooper]

Lucky guy was name-checked a few times by the opposition choir. Action needed. Is phoning the police worth while?

[wallpaperman]

Lucky guy was name-checked a few times by the opposition choir. Action needed. Is phoning the police worth while?

No, don’t be silly.

[Sir David Gray]

Lucky guy was name-checked a few times by the opposition choir. Action needed. Is phoning the police worth while?

They'll laugh at you.

[Ringothedog]

I was threatened more than once by the police for shouting at opposition players they were their usual disgrace tonight. I have both the police numbers and informed them that I would be reporting them. Meanwhile that lot can sing their songs with impunity.

They are gutless knobends who should be ashamed of how they police games

[Jim44]

Don’t waste your time. You’ve got to remember that huge factions of the police enjoy the bigotry. Depends on how your mop flops. Just despise and dismiss the lot of them and get on with supporting a decent team.

[WhileTheChief..]

They'll laugh at you.

They wouldn’t be the only ones!!

[Crab apple]

Sectarian singing throughout goes unchecked. They really are the dregs of society.

[CMurdoch]

Lucky guy was name-checked a few times by the opposition choir. Action needed. Is phoning the police worth while?

It would be a really long phone call.
BS died almost 40 years ago. Like you, most of today's cops wouldn't have been alive then.
You would have to explain who BS was and tell them about the troubles and how it all pieced together.
By then they would probably thank you for the history lesson about freedom fighting in another country but say they have to leave immediately to deal with an assault or something.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Bobby was worth a million of all those clowns in the away end tonight. I am no PIRA supporter, but Bobby's demand for justice and freedom in a socialist Ireland is still worthy of analysis. He fought all forms of prejudice and gave his life for equality, which is something those mocking him would never do. Your vision of Ireland persists, Bobby.:aok:

As he said, 'Our revenge will be the laughter of our children'. Leave it at that. James Connolly would have loved his courage in dying for what is right.

[The Pointer]

This song is a regular number for that lot and completely irrelevant to ER. Don't get your knickers in a twist about a twisted terrorist bstrd who who would have bombed you or I without a second thought.

[Hibernia&Alba]

This song is a regular number for that lot and completely irrelevant to ER. Don't get your knickers in a twist about a twisted terrorist bstrd who who would have bombed you or I without a second thought.

Please take that back, comrade.

[EI255]

I hope they can "name check" Boris Johnstone in a few years. Though they don't have the brains to know what they've voted in.

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[EI255]

Please take that back, comrade.Exactly. That is shocking.

Bobby Sands. Stand free.

Absolute hero.

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[EI255]

Bobby was worth a million of all those clowns in the away end tonight. I am no PIRA supporter, but Bobby's demand for justice and freedom in a socialist Ireland is still worthy of analysis. He fought all forms of prejudice and gave his life for equality, which is something those mocking him would never do. Your vision of Ireland persists, Bobby.:aok:

As he said, 'Our revenge will be the laughter of our children'. Leave it at that. James Connolly would have loved his courage in dying for what is right.One hundred percent.

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[Hibernia&Alba]

I want to thank the admins for keeping this thread open after moving it. It could easily have been closed, but I think it's right to keep it open.

It's so easy to follow the script of establishment politicians and media in calling people terrorists, yet time and again we have seen the establishment commit terrorism themselves against the powerless, with media complicity. I firmly believe the only way to achieve total non-violence is via total justice, yet governments never apply such policies. That isn't to say there is no such thing as terrorism, rather it's a call to examine the world we live in and how to analyse cause and effect.

If we all strive to do the right thing, violence can be minimised, yet those who have power so often abuse it and perpetuate violence.

[Speedy]

Exactly. That is shocking.

Bobby Sands. Stand free.

Absolute hero.

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It was before my time and it's not my style to get into politics but regardless, the guy is dead. Let's not trivialise that either way with songs or remarks about his cause.

[Sir David Gray]

Bobby Sands was hardly much of a freedom fighting hero when he helped plan and carry out a bombing of a furniture store and a firearm was found in the car he was in.

He was a member of a terrorist organisation that was responsible for some extreme acts of violence over many years resulting in many civilians being murdered and maimed both in Northern Ireland and beyond.

[Cataplana]

Bobby Sands was hardly much of a freedom fighting hero when he helped plan and carry out a bombing of a furniture store and a firearm was found in the car he was in.

He was a member of a terrorist organisation that was responsible for some extreme acts of violence over many years resulting in many civilians being murdered and maimed both in Northern Ireland and beyond.

It's a shame that people dig themselves into intolerant positions in these debates. I'd be surprised if you weren't aware that other people have less extreme views than you, and that your position will attract sturdy defences from people on the opposite side.

I think Bomber Harris was responsible for blowing up quite a few furniture stores. There's a statue of him in London.

But Bobby Sands gets used by you to draw attention to yourself on the internet.

Where's the justice?

[Sir David Gray]

It's a shame that people dig themselves into intolerant positions in these debates. I'd be surprised if you weren't aware that other people have less extreme views than you, and that your position will attract sturdy defences from people on the opposite side.

I think Bomber Harris was responsible for blowing up quite a few furniture stores. There's a statue of him in London.

But Bobby Sands gets used by you to draw attention to yourself on the internet.

Where's the justice?

Start a thread on Bomber Harris then and I'll share my views.

It's a bit weird having a go at someone for sharing their opinion on Bobby Sands, on a thread that's actually titled "Bobby Sands". What did you expect me to talk about, the teletubbies?

[Cataplana]

Start a thread on Bomber Harris then and I'll share my views.

It's a bit weird having a go at someone for sharing their opinion on Bobby Sands, on a thread that's actually titled "Bobby Sands". What did you expect me to talk about, the teletubbies?

Nice try.

You weren't just talking about Bobby Sands, you went off on one about the nature of terrorism, and made some inflammatory remarks on the back of it.

I believe that demonising every aspect of opponents is a sure fire way to keep the killing going. So, I was really asking for a bit more tolerance and a bit less antagonism.

I am not going to spell out the reason for bringing Bomber Harris into it. You are too intelligent not to understand the reasons he is part of the discussion.

[wallpaperman]

Yeah, I can’t quite get my head around someone being lauded who helped plan a bombing that killed two children under the age of two, amongst others. Despite the fact that it may have been a retaliatory attack for another horrible atrocity just before.

His family have also been involved in even more extreme actions.

I have no side to take on this, so just saying as I see it from a neutral point of view.

[Sir David Gray]

Nice try.

You weren't just talking about Bobby Sands, you went off on one about the nature of terrorism, and made some inflammatory remarks on the back of it.

I believe that demonising every aspect of opponents is a sure fire way to keep the killing going. So, I was really asking for a bit more tolerance and a bit less antagonism.

I am not going to spell out the reason for bringing Bomber Harris into it. You are too intelligent not to understand the reasons he is part of the discussion.

I hardly went "off on one" and I would like you to explain what inflammatory or extreme remarks I've made on this thread.

Here's what I said broken down;

"Bobby Sands was hardly much of a freedom fighting hero when he helped plan and carry out a bombing of a furniture store and a firearm was found in the car he was in."

The first part of that sentence is an opinion as clearly many people do see him as a hero and a freedom fighter but the latter part (which I used to explain the basis of my opinion) is fact. He, along with others, did plan and carry out a bombing of a furniture store and a firearm was found in the car he was travelling in or would you like to dispute those version of events?

"He was a member of a terrorist organisation that was responsible for some extreme acts of violence over many years resulting in many civilians being murdered and maimed both in Northern Ireland and beyond."

Again this is a statement of fact unless you would like to tell me otherwise? He was a member of the Provisional IRA which carried out many attacks across Northern Ireland, England and also in mainland Europe over many years. Those attacks resulted in innocent civilians being killed and injured.

You can side with Bobby Sands if you like, you can even support the activities of the organisation he was part of if you like but I'm not sure how you can say I'm posting inflammatory or extreme remarks.

Apart from the first few words of my post where I question his legacy as a freedom fighter, everything else I've said is an irrefutable fact.

[Hibrandenburg]

Anyone who thinks that the murder of innocent men, women and children is nothing less than abhorrent could possibly see BS as anything like a heroic symbol of the struggle for freedom. Same applies to the Paras and other government forces that gunned down innocents. There's no glory to be had in murder.

[JeMeSouviens]

I highly recommend this if you want to understand the hunger strikes:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ten-Dead-Men-Hunger-Strike/dp/0586065334

[Cataplana]

I hardly went "off on one" and I would like you to explain what inflammatory or extreme remarks I've made on this thread.

Here's what I said broken down;

"Bobby Sands was hardly much of a freedom fighting hero when he helped plan and carry out a bombing of a furniture store and a firearm was found in the car he was in."

The first part of that sentence is an opinion as clearly many people do see him as a hero and a freedom fighter but the latter part (which I used to explain the basis of my opinion) is fact. He, along with others, did plan and carry out a bombing of a furniture store and a firearm was found in the car he was travelling in or would you like to dispute those version of events?

"He was a member of a terrorist organisation that was responsible for some extreme acts of violence over many years resulting in many civilians being murdered and maimed both in Northern Ireland and beyond."

Again this is a statement of fact unless you would like to tell me otherwise? He was a member of the Provisional IRA which carried out many attacks across Northern Ireland, England and also in mainland Europe over many years. Those attacks resulted in innocent civilians being killed and injured.

You can side with Bobby Sands if you like, you can even support the activities of the organisation he was part of if you like but I'm not sure how you can say I'm posting inflammatory or extreme remarks.

Apart from the first few words of my post where I question his legacy as a freedom fighter, everything else I've said is an irrefutable fact.

I'm not siding with one side or the other.

[Sir David Gray]

I'm not siding with one side or the other.

I never said you were I was mainly asking you to explain why you felt I was being extreme, intolerant and inflammatory.

[marinello59]

Bobby Sands was hardly much of a freedom fighting hero when he helped plan and carry out a bombing of a furniture store and a firearm was found in the car he was in.

He was a member of a terrorist organisation that was responsible for some extreme acts of violence over many years resulting in many civilians being murdered and maimed both in Northern Ireland and beyond.

The bravery of himself and the other hunger strikers was recognised by Thatcher. Like many stories his is multi-dimensional.

[Killiehibbie]

Maybe the tories will end up giving Sands what he fought for. He couldn't have imagined the the north of Ireland having a minority of loyalist MP's at Westminster.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Perhaps appropriate that this is on a non football thread. The converse action would be to go to the House of Commons and sing YNWA or Hail Hail.

[Cataplana]

I never said you were I was mainly asking you to explain why you felt I was being extreme, intolerant and inflammatory.

(I said I wasn't taking sides.)


You can side with Bobby Sands if you like, you can even support the activities of the organisation he was part of if you like but I'm not sure how you can say I'm posting inflammatory or extreme remarks.

Apart from the first few words of my post where I question his legacy as a freedom fighter, everything else I've said is an irrefutable fact.

I thought your tone could have been more conciliatory, and acknowledging a past that both sides are trying to put behind them.

If you don't, that's your business. We all have our own ideas about the best way to build towards the future.

I don't think we are going to come any closer, but that's the way things go sometimes.

Edit: lest I'm accused of trolling, this is the bit that I thought was inflammatory: "Bobby Sands was hardly much of a freedom fighting hero"

Sorry, you may question his methods, but to disrespect his motivation is setting out your stall in your very first sentence.

[lapsedhibee]

Northern Ireland has come a long way in the past 329 years, yet some in this country haven't moved an inch. Very odd.

Ftfy

[Pretty Boy]

It takes a big person to admit they were wrong, so fair play.

We could debate the terrible history of The Troubles until doomsday, but why Rangers fan think it appropriate to sing about Sands at a Scottish football match in 2019 is just weird. Northern Ireland has come a long way in the past twenty years, yet some in this country haven't moved an inch. Very odd.

It's probably easier to glorify a war and revel in the triumphalism when you don't have to live with the consequences on a day to day basis.

For the people of NI the Troubles were real life, for idiot OF supporters it's a reason to get dressed up and march about the streets a couple of times a year and/or sing things you don't really understand at a football match.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

It takes a big person to admit they were wrong, so fair play.

We could debate the terrible history of The Troubles until doomsday, but why Rangers fan think it appropriate to sing about Sands at a Scottish football match in 2019 is just weird. Northern Ireland has come a long way in the past twenty years, yet some in this country haven't moved an inch. Very odd.

The The Rangers fans lend credence to the cliche of being part of the problem if you are not part of the solution. When Stormont reconvenes with a greater Nationalist presence, democratically elected, hopefully things will start to change.

[Cataplana]

It's probably easier to glorify a war and revel in the triumphalism when you don't have to live with the consequences on a day to day basis.

For the people of NI the Troubles were real life, for idiot OF supporters it's a reason to get dressed up and march about the streets a couple of times a year and/or sing things you don't really understand at a football match.

There is a significant number of Rangers supporters from Northern Ireland.

[G B Young]

Peter Taylor's documentary about his years covering the Troubles is well worth watching:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0007pb4

It includes some remarkable stories about the 'H blocks' featuring prisoners from both sides.

[CMurdoch]

Peter Taylor's documentary about his years covering the Troubles is well worth watching:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0007pb4

It includes some remarkable stories about the 'H blocks' featuring prisoners from both sides.

There was a load of good documentaries in the "Troubles at 50" series.
After watching them all I was left feeling, as I always have, that it was a massive waste of life.
Hell on earth for those who lived through it and where affected directly or indirectly by it.
Families devastated and torn apart forever.

Thousands of lives lost and ruined over 30 years and the result was Gerry Adams, Ian Paisley & Martin McGuinness etc sitting in Stormont.
Isn't it always the way with wars. The wee folk crushed on the wheel of the noble cause and the leaders reaping the glory.

That feeling ties in with my impression of Bobby Sands which was that he was misguided. Gave his life for a war that couldn't be won and the result of this ultimate sacrifice was his leaders sitting in Stormont. His family are angry about that to this day which tells you Sands and Adams were on different pages and that Sands giving his life was a mistake.
Gerry Adams, whatever folk think of him, was a street wise intellectual and master tactician who was light years ahead of Sands and the equal of any British commander or politician.
As a result Adams is alive and well and still being the intellectual and Sands has been dead for over 40 years. Bobby Sands was robbed.

[Hibernia&Alba]

There was a load of good documentaries in the "Troubles at 50" series.
After watching them all I was left feeling, as I always have, that it was a massive waste of life.
Hell on earth for those who lived through it and where affected directly or indirectly by it.
Families devastated and torn apart forever.

Thousands of lives lost and ruined over 30 years and the result was Gerry Adams, Ian Paisley & Martin McGuinness etc sitting in Stormont.
Isn't it always the way with wars. The wee folk crushed on the wheel of the noble cause and the leaders reaping the glory.

That feeling ties in with my impression of Bobby Sands which was that he was misguided. Gave his life for a war that couldn't be won and the result of this ultimate sacrifice was his leaders sitting in Stormont. His family are angry about that to this day which tells you Sands and Adams were on different pages and that Sands giving his life was a mistake.
Gerry Adams, whatever folk think of him, was a street wise intellectual and master tactician who was light years ahead of Sands and the equal of any British commander or politician.
As a result Adams is alive and well and still being the intellectual and Sands has been dead for over 40 years. Bobby Sands was robbed.

All conflicts are a massive waste of life. As Tony Benn said, all wars result from a failure in diplomacy, and the lives of those who played no role in escalating a conflict are the easiest to take. It's always the innocent who carry the heaviest burden. Violence begets violence, and The Troubles are a classic example of how blow for blow violence can quickly cause a society to disintegrate. There is always enough blame to go around.

As for Bobby Sands and the hunger strikers, he/they were more than intelligent enough to understand what was at stake. Indeed, the PIRA leadership asked them to come off the strike but were rebuffed, as were the strikers families. There are many good accounts of the events of 1981. Steve McQueen's film Hunger is well worth a watch.