Two killed in London Bridge attack

[G B Young]

More awful scenes in London. Horrible echoes of 2017. Some very brave punters involved in disarming the attacker.

[essexhibee]

This happened next to my office. Was actually downstairs in the gym and saw lots of what looked like tourists and children running past away from the scene. Genuinely quite scary.

[Pretty Boy]

Good on the people who risked their own lives to disarm the guy. I think we'd all like to think we'd be that person but not many of us would be.

I'm always wary of the Police using lethal force but if the guy was wearing what looked like an explosive device then I can't see what option they had. Split second decision and seems to have been the right one.

[CloudSquall]

Stabbings reported in a shopping street in The Hague now.

[The Pointer]

All credit to the members of the public who tackled the guy and condolences to the dead (X 2) and injured.

In some of the vids you see a bloke moving away from the incident holding a large knife, but there are pics of the alleged assailant afterwards beside whom there is a second knife, so good job to the police for finishing him off.

[One Day Soon]

Some jumped on him to restrain hm despite believing he was wearing a suicide vest? That's real courage.

[Pretty Boy]

All credit to the members of the public who tackled the guy and condolences to the dead (X 2) and injured.

In some of the vids you see a bloke moving away from the incident holding a large knife, but there are pics of the alleged assailant afterwards beside whom there is a second knife, so good job to the police for finishing him off.

It's far from a funny situation but there's a video doing the rounds that appears to show that guy who wrestled the knife away from the attacker slyly disposing of a small plastic bag of white powder as he moves away.

I think the Police may have turned a blind eye to possession of coke given the circumstances.

[The_Exile]

Some jumped on him to restrain hm despite believing he was wearing a suicide vest? That's real courage.

The absolute spuds on these guys! They should never pay another penny in tax ever again. Heroes.

[Scouse Hibee]

The absolute spuds on these guys! They should never pay another penny in tax ever again. Heroes.

Amazing how some folk react to danger and their instinct is the total opposite to fear.

[Ozyhibby]

I see the papers have spotted that the deceased murderer was wearing a tag. That why I don’t understand why people try to demonise Islam when usually the people who commit these acts turn out to be criminals who already have a record and often a history of drug use. They are not really religious people at all. Just angry young men not capable of coping with normal life.


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[The Pointer]

It's far from a funny situation but there's a video doing the rounds that appears to show that guy who wrestled the knife away from the attacker slyly disposing of a small plastic bag of white powder as he moves away.

I think the Police may have turned a blind eye to possession of coke given the circumstances.

I've just watched that but it looks like he just throws it to the side, not over the parapet. May be a hanky or tissue or something.

[Stairway 2 7]

It's far from a funny situation but there's a video doing the rounds that appears to show that guy who wrestled the knife away from the attacker slyly disposing of a small plastic bag of white powder as he moves away.

I think the Police may have turned a blind eye to possession of coke given the circumstances.

Looks either a hanky or he's casually walking about with a rediculous killo of coke in his pocket

[Colr]

I see the papers have spotted that the deceased murderer was wearing a tag. That why I don’t understand why people try to demonise Islam when usually the people who commit these acts turn out to be criminals who already have a record and often a history of drug use. They are not really religious people at all. Just angry young men not capable of coping with normal life.


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I totally agree with the sentiment although I understand he was on release after taking part in a bomb plot.

It’s not because of the religion he clearly doesn’t understand.

[Aldo]

Well done to those members of the public who put their own lives at risk to prevent further injury to others.

I also hope the officers involved are backed fully for the actions taken by them following spilt second decisions.






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[Ozyhibby]

I totally agree with the sentiment although I understand he was on release after taking part in a bomb plot.

It’s not because of the religion he clearly doesn’t understand.

Jeezo, bit hard to attack Corbyn on security when you are letting terrorist suspects out on the tag.


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[G B Young]

Jeezo, bit hard to attack Corbyn on security when you are letting terrorist suspects out on the tag.


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He'd apparently been invited as a guest (possibly even as a speaker) to a nearby event about prisoner rehabilitation where he first started stabbing people, one of them a young woman according to the news bulletin I saw last night. He'd served six years prior to being allowed out on a tag in 2018.

[Hibrandenburg]

Obviously a sick individual seduced by the idea of martyrdom. The whole fake bomb belt thing screams of a "death by cop" wish. Why do these ****s think that taking innocent people with them will reap rewards in the afterlife whereas in reality the teachings of Islam will condemn him to hell?

My thoughts are with the victims and my respect with those who intervened with little or no thought of their own safety. This incident shows the good and bad in our society.

[Hibrandenburg]

I see the papers have spotted that the deceased murderer was wearing a tag. That why I don’t understand why people try to demonise Islam when usually the people who commit these acts turn out to be criminals who already have a record and often a history of drug use. They are not really religious people at all. Just angry young men not capable of coping with normal life.


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:agree:

[The Pointer]

Well he'll get his 72 virgins now.

[Cataplana]

Obviously a sick individual seduced by the idea of martyrdom. The whole fake bomb belt thing screams of a "death by cop" wish. Why do these ****s think that taking innocent people with them will reap rewards in the afterlife whereas in reality the teachings of Islam will condemn him to hell?

My thoughts are with the victims and my respect with those who intervened with little or no thought of their own safety. This incident shows the good and bad in our society.

You wonder if there is mental illness there.

[Slavers]

I think the bravery of those people who tackled the terrorist and by doing so stopped more people being killed showed them to hero's, along with the police who rushed to the scene.

Also I think people who dismiss any link to Islam and those who blame it entirely on Islam are ideologically driven. They are the two cheeks on the same arse and its not helping anyone.

There are plenty more Jihadists in jail approaching their release date. It's not an easy thing to deal with as pretty much every terrorist attacker had been known to authorities but they still are able to carry out attacks.

[CloudSquall]

Also I think people who dismiss any link to Islam and those who blame it entirely on Islam are ideologically driven. They are the two cheeks on the same arse and its not helping anyone.


That's where I am as well, there's a middle ground between the two positions.

[Pretty Boy]

I was at a talk and Q&A session with an Imam recently. The evening was primarily focused on understanding the view of Jesus within Islam and the links between Christianity and Islam.

However there was an inevitability that the questions would navigate towards extremism. The Imam in question was viewed as something of an extreme figure himself at one time. Not in the sense that he was promoting terrorism or murder but rather because he was one of the 1st Imams in Scotland (and the UK) to preach exclusively in English and he was, and is, a leading figure in trying to promote integration and understanding between those of different faiths and none. His current role involves working primarily with young men in their late teens and early 20s. He said it's an ongoing challenge guiding them away from more extreme interpretations of Islam. Part of that is societal; young Muslim men are often excluded from their contemporaries in that they don't drink, tend to be more likely to still attend a place of worship, feel uncomfortable at sporting events and often seek solace amongst themselves because it's not always easy to socialise in this country if you don't partake in the drinking and sporting culture. As such they are soft targets for those looking to recruit young Muslim men for acts of violence. They are manipulating into believing they are part of a special group, they belong, they are righteous and so on. He also didn't shy away from the fact that part of it is religious. The Quaran, much like the Bible, can be interpreted in many ways and used to justify many viewpoints. Those looking to recruit these men are Imams, Muftis and so on, they do preach in Mosques and they are often respected figures within the community.

What I took from it is that you can't separate the societal issues from the religious and vice versa. They are intrinsically linked and each relies on the other to continue the vicious cycle of radicalisation and terrorism.

[Hibrandenburg]

You wonder if there is mental illness there.

I think you can't be of sound mind and go on a stabbing spree in the name of whatever. I think you can safely say that running amok with a knife and having a fake bomb belt on and being right in the head are mutually exclusive.

[Hibrandenburg]

Just been reading that one of the have a go heroes was a murderer of a woman with a mental age of 15, who was out on day release. This must blow the minds of hard right conservatives.

[Cataplana]

I think you can't be of sound mind and go on a stabbing spree in the name of whatever. I think you can safely say that running amok with a knife and having a fake bomb belt on and being right in the head are mutually exclusive.

I thought it worthwhile pointing out that terrorists tend to target people with mental illness, and manipulate them into these horrific acts. The fake bomb belt either points to someone suffering from a delusion, or from someone that wanted to be shot.

[Hibrandenburg]

I was at a talk and Q&A session with an Imam recently. The evening was primarily focused on understanding the view of Jesus within Islam and the links between Christianity and Islam.

However there was an inevitability that the questions would navigate towards extremism. The Imam in question was viewed as something of an extreme figure himself at one time. Not in the sense that he was promoting terrorism or murder but rather because he was one of the 1st Imams in Scotland (and the UK) to preach exclusively in English and he was, and is, a leading figure in trying to promote integration and understanding between those of different faiths and none. His current role involves working primarily with young men in their late teens and early 20s. He said it's an ongoing challenge guiding them away from more extreme interpretations of Islam. Part of that is societal; young Muslim men are often excluded from their contemporaries in that they don't drink, tend to be more likely to still attend a place of worship, feel uncomfortable at sporting events and often seek solace amongst themselves because it's not always easy to socialise in this country if you don't partake in the drinking and sporting culture. As such they are soft targets for those looking to recruit young Muslim men for acts of violence. They are manipulating into believing they are part of a special group, they belong, they are righteous and so on. He also didn't shy away from the fact that part of it is religious. The Quaran, much like the Bible, can be interpreted in many ways and used to justify many viewpoints. Those looking to recruit these men are Imams, Muftis and so on, they do preach in Mosques and they are often respected figures within the community.

What I took from it is that you can't separate the societal issues from the religious and vice versa. They are intrinsically linked and each relies on the other to continue the vicious cycle of radicalisation and terrorism.

There's probably a lot of truth in that.

[G B Young]

Just been reading that one of the have a go heroes was a murderer of a woman with a mental age of 15, who was out on day release. This must blow the minds of hard right conservatives.

Prisoner who intervened 'not a hero' - murder victim's family
A convicted murderer who intervened in the London Bridge attack should not be described as “a hero", his victim's family has told BBC News.
James Ford, who killed Amanda Champion in Ashford, Kent, in 2003, (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/3659523.stm) was on day release and had been attending the same prisoner rehabilitation event as attacker Usman Khan.
He helped in the aftermath of Friday's attack.
Ms Champion’s aunt Angela Cox said: “Yes, he did something nice, but that doesn’t make up for what he has done.
“He’s not a hero, and he never will be.”

[G B Young]

I thought it worthwhile pointing out that terrorists tend to target people with mental illness, and manipulate them into these horrific acts. The fake bomb belt either points to someone suffering from a delusion, or from someone that wanted to be shot.

I'm not reading mental illness here as an explanation for his murderous attack:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50611788

Based on that, he comes across as a cold-hearted plotter who knew exactly what he wanted to do.

[Cataplana]

I'm not reading mental illness here as an explanation for his murderous attack:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50611788

Based on that, he comes across as a cold-hearted plotter who knew exactly what he wanted to do.

More than likely.

[Ozyhibby]

Just been reading that one of the have a go heroes was a murderer of a woman with a mental age of 15, who was out on day release. This must blow the minds of hard right conservatives.

Another one was Polish.[emoji23]


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[Hibrandenburg]

Another one was Polish.[emoji23]


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If the third guy is a transvestite then their heads will explode. 😂

[Hibrandenburg]

I'm not reading mental illness here as an explanation for his murderous attack:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50611788

Based on that, he comes across as a cold-hearted plotter who knew exactly what he wanted to do.

Someone who straps a fake bomb belt to themselves and then runs amok with a knife in the middle of Britain's capital city is not paddling with both oars in the water.

[matty_f]

Well he'll get his 72 virgins now.

I hope they all have ZX Spectrums, live with their mums and are called Cecil.

[Cataplana]

Someone who straps a fake bomb belt to themselves and then runs amok with a knife in the middle of Britain's capital city is not paddling with both oars in the water.

I think your post is rather like a suicide vest in that it has managed to hit some innocent bystanders as well as the intended victim.

Paddling without both oars in the water is funny though.

Ps the interview with him in 2006 looks like he is more likely to fit into the angry little sh it category.

[J-C]

Another one was Polish.[emoji23]


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There's a video on twitter showing the Polish chef attacking the guy with a Narwhal tusk and another with a fire extinguisher, the tweet was brilliant though. It said bloody migrants, coming over here and being our heroes.

[Ozyhibby]

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2019/11/30/10-thing-you-should-know-about-the-london-bridge-attacker-and-early-release/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

This is quite lengthy but gives a good account of the reasons this guy was let out.


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[Moulin Yarns]

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2019/11/30/10-thing-you-should-know-about-the-london-bridge-attacker-and-early-release/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

This is quite lengthy but gives a good account of the reasons this guy was let out.


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Tweet from the secret barrister

The Prime Minister has basically copied and pasted my blogpost into a thread and passed it off as his own explanation.

A blogpost which I had to write to rebut the lies he spent yesterday spouting.

This is weapons grade ****housery.

[Hibrandenburg]

I think your post is rather like a suicide vest in that it has managed to hit some innocent bystanders as well as the intended victim.

Paddling without both oars in the water is funny though.

Ps the interview with him in 2006 looks like he is more likely to fit into the angry little sh it category.

I'd include angry little ****s in the pathologically disturbed category, at least those little ****s that think murdering people they don't know is the answer to anything.

[Cataplana]

I'd include angry little ****s in the pathologically disturbed category, at least those little ****s that think murdering people they don't know is the answer to anything.

Even psychiatrists have so far failed to invent a diagnosis of Tosser.

On the old mad or bad argument, that one never comes out as being treatable by medicine.

Guy was a sh it pure and simple. If we lock up every sh it we are going to struggle.

[G B Young]

In the unseemly haste to politicise this incident what seems to have been lost is how sad it was that two people who have clearly dedicated their working lives to helping people like this terrorist f***wit have ended up being murdered by him. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the rehabilitation system, Khan appears to have exploited it for his own murderous ends, even extolling its virtues and claiming it had helped to turn him around before seizing the opportunity it offered him to run amok. You could argue that wearing a fake suicide vest calls his state of mind into question but you could also argue that he wore it to frighten off those who tried to stop him and allow him to inflict maximum damage unhindered.

[Cataplana]

In the unseemly haste to politicise this incident what seems to have been lost is how sad it was that two people who have clearly dedicated their working lives to helping people like this terrorist f***wit have ended up being murdered by him. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the rehabilitation system, Khan appears to have exploited it for his own murderous ends, even extolling its virtues and claiming it had helped to turn him around before seizing the opportunity it offered him to run amok. You could argue that wearing a fake suicide vest calls his state of mind into question but you could also argue that he wore it to frighten off those who tried to stop him and allow him to inflict maximum damage unhindered.

The basic test in this is whether you believe it is sane to kill yourself for your God, in return for a fast track to heaven.

If you have faith, then that is an unquestionable fact. If you don't it sounds insane.

Lets assume he had faith, them his actions including the vest that would see him shot, are completely rational, and have been planned very well.

If you think that faith is insane, then he was indubitably mad.

By the way, the undue haste to politicise this came from the Tories.

[Ozyhibby]

The basic test in this is whether you believe it is sane to kill yourself for your God, in return for a fast track to heaven.

If you have faith, then that is an unquestionable fact. If you don't it sounds insane.

Lets assume he had faith, them his actions including the vest that would see him shot, are completely rational, and have been planned very well.

If you think that faith is insane, then he was indubitably mad.

By the way, the undue haste to politicise this came from the Tories.

This can’t not be political I’m afraid. The two main parties have very different ideas on how to deal with the prison system and rehabilitation. Will be interesting to see exactly how much rehabilitation this guy had? It would surely be complete incompetence to release a known terrorist without a proper rehabilitation process?


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[Cataplana]

This can’t not be political I’m afraid. The two main parties have very different ideas on how to deal with the prison system and rehabilitation. Will be interesting to see exactly how much rehabilitation this guy had? It would surely be complete incompetence to release a known terrorist without a proper rehabilitation process?



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I wonder how effectively you can rehabilitate knob ends like him.

You make a good point though. I also know that Boris is so untouchable now, it doesn't matter what is true, or not. People will believe him regardless.

[G B Young]

Extraordinary new footage:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-50615950/london-bridge-video-shows-public-confront-london-bridge-attacker

Even more extraordinary bravery from those in pursuit, who had apparently been at the rehabilitation event. You wonder how you would react in such a situation and while I can't imagine myself being so brave I wonder if the anger these people felt at the way this b*****d had exploited those who were trying to help him made them more determined to bring his murderous spree to an end.

[G B Young]

The basic test in this is whether you believe it is sane to kill yourself for your God, in return for a fast track to heaven.

If you have faith, then that is an unquestionable fact. If you don't it sounds insane.

Lets assume he had faith, them his actions including the vest that would see him shot, are completely rational, and have been planned very well.

If you think that faith is insane, then he was indubitably mad.

By the way, the undue haste to politicise this came from the Tories.

I don't think that's true. Cooper kicked off the Twitter spat with Patel and Corbyn was quick out the blocks to start sniping about full investigations and re-inventing himself as a supporter of shoot to kill. It's not been a good look for either party though and as I said I think the horror of the incident itself has been too easily overlooked, in particular the way in which those who died were killed.

[Cataplana]

I don't think that's true. Cooper kicked off the Twitter spat with Patel and Corbyn was quick out the blocks to start sniping about full investigations and re-inventing himself as a supporter of shoot to kill. It's not been a good look for either party though and as I said I think the horror of the incident itself has been too easily overlooked, in particular the way in which those who died were killed.

It has not been a good look at all. We really expect politicians to stand together at times like this.

[Ozyhibby]

I don't think that's true. Cooper kicked off the Twitter spat with Patel and Corbyn was quick out the blocks to start sniping about full investigations and re-inventing himself as a supporter of shoot to kill. It's not been a good look for either party though and as I said I think the horror of the incident itself has been too easily overlooked, in particular the way in which those who died were killed.

It was Patel who was telling lies though, not Cooper or Corbyn.


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[G B Young]

It was Patel who was telling lies though, not Cooper or Corbyn.


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More a case of choosing who you want to believe I'd suggest. Corbyn's sudden switch to backing shoot to kill instead of his usual claims that attempts should have been made to arrest all manner of terrorists sums up how quickly this horrendous event has sparked the main parties into trying to claim the moral high ground and delivering the soundbytes they think the voters want to hear.

[G B Young]

I think those who knew the victims and those who were at the event where the atrocity began have spoken today in a way that the wise after the event blame seeking politicos have failed to do:

Speaking about the chain of events inside Fishmongers' Hall on Friday, where Khan launched his fatal attack, the venue's chief executive Mr Williamson praised the bravery of his staff who intervened to stop the attacker, hailing their actions as "extraordinary things done by ordinary people".
"There was a scream, there was blood. People thought it was an exercise at first," Mr Williamson told the BBC.
He recounted how two men, named as Lukasz and Andy, "used fire extinguishers, chairs and narwhal tusks ripped off the wall" to take the fight back to Khan.
"They took a decision, one that enough was enough. They were determined it wasn't going to go on."
"They are two of the most humble people... but in the heat of the moment, people do extraordinary things.
"I am very proud to know them."

And...

Cambridge University's vice-chancellor said he was "devastated to learn that among the victims were staff and alumni".
Professor Stephen J Toope said the victims were taking part in an event "to mark five years of the university's Learning Together programme" - which focuses on prisoner rehabilitation.
He added: "What should have been a joyous opportunity to celebrate the achievements of this unique and socially transformative programme, hosted by our Institute of Criminology, was instead disrupted by an unspeakable criminal act.
Prof Toope added that the fact Mr Merritt was killed by someone he was trying to help "is the greatest tragedy of all".

[Colr]

I think those who knew the victims and those who were at the event where the atrocity began have spoken today in a way that the wise after the event blame seeking politicos have failed to do:

Speaking about the chain of events inside Fishmongers' Hall on Friday, where Khan launched his fatal attack, the venue's chief executive Mr Williamson praised the bravery of his staff who intervened to stop the attacker, hailing their actions as "extraordinary things done by ordinary people".
"There was a scream, there was blood. People thought it was an exercise at first," Mr Williamson told the BBC.
He recounted how two men, named as Lukasz and Andy, "used fire extinguishers, chairs and narwhal tusks ripped off the wall" to take the fight back to Khan.
"They took a decision, one that enough was enough. They were determined it wasn't going to go on."
"They are two of the most humble people... but in the heat of the moment, people do extraordinary things.
"I am very proud to know them."

And...

Cambridge University's vice-chancellor said he was "devastated to learn that among the victims were staff and alumni".
Professor Stephen J Toope said the victims were taking part in an event "to mark five years of the university's Learning Together programme" - which focuses on prisoner rehabilitation.
He added: "What should have been a joyous opportunity to celebrate the achievements of this unique and socially transformative programme, hosted by our Institute of Criminology, was instead disrupted by an unspeakable criminal act.
Prof Toope added that the fact Mr Merritt was killed by someone he was trying to help "is the greatest tragedy of all".

That’s because Labour and the Tories are run by a bunch of ****s.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Tin foil hat time - Manchester arena bombing was a couple of weeks before the last election