Did Nicola Sturgeon get a kicking from Andrew Neil?

[Hibbyradge]

I'm on holiday in Oz and not able to properly keep up but I've read some accounts that NS performed very badly on some TV show.

What occurred?

[JeMeSouviens]

Not really (not by his standards anyway).

Here's Andy Maciver, a former Scot Tory staffer, now PR guy:


1/ Caught up with
@NicolaSturgeon @afneil late. I'm afraid rejoicing unionists need to put the Kool Aid down. Watch the rest of his interviews this week, then go back and watch her's, and you will see the winner. AN asked difficult and legitimate questions on key areas of ...


2/ ... weakness (which are primarily a Scotland/England customs border and public service performance) but NS gave as good as she got. We are looking here at clearly the pre-eminent Scottish politician of our (or at least my) lifetime. Deal with it. #GE19

[HiBremian]

https://youtu.be/pGio8wx-O2g

Here's the interview.

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[Ozyhibby]

Not from the clip I saw that the unionist were claiming to be him owning her. It was just him asking a long winded question about the SNHS and it cut off before her answer.


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[Frazerbob]

Why does he ask questions then constantly interrupt when she attempts to answer them?

[Scorrie]

Why does he ask questions then constantly interrupt when she attempts to answer them?

Cos he’s a grade A weapon in my view

[Andy Bee]

Why does he ask questions then constantly interrupt when she attempts to answer them?

Exactly, it's pretty rare to have all these leaders in front of the cameras in one to one interviews and most people would just like important questions answered truthfully and informatively but Neil had one objective and it wasn't to have a fair and balanced interview. He was accused 3 or 4 times about having his facts completely wrong but carried on regardless. She was accused of everything from not having ventilation systems working to where pigeons crap, pretty pathetic really. One thing's for sure, project fear is starting to kick into action.

[Pretty Boy]

I think the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle and people inevitably see what they want to see to an extent. To a hard unionist that was probably a victory for the MSM, for a nationalist it was another solid performance from NS.

I thought it was the least assured I have seen her in a long while, she still held her own and answered tricky questions fairly competently. Not a vintage performance but when compared to the other leaders she still looks the most media savvy and displays an enviable composure under scrutiny.

[Hibrandenburg]

He doesn't want answers in his interviews, his constant interruptions and changing the questions before an answer can be given, resembles an interrogation where he wants to coerce the interviewee into agreeing with his narrative. I see no value in watching his interviews.

[Frankhfc]

It wasn't great to watch. I've seen Nicola conduct herself far better but it was a tough interview from a veteran host. I don't think Corbyn, Johnson or Swinson would have done much better.

[Andy Bee]

As soon as an answer starts becoming credible the blethering jakeball talks over the interviewee and changes the subject. I found the currency subject very interesting until he cut her short when he realised the answer was starting to look viable so then moved onto the SNHS. It's a complete waste of time and an obvious attempted stitchup.

[CloudSquall]

Not really (not by his standards anyway).

Here's Andy Maciver, a former Scot Tory staffer, now PR guy:


I just listed to it and I think Andy Maciver has it right.

Tough interview on areas that are weak points for the SNP but I thought she handled them as well as she could have and will come out as the "winner" so to say amongst the leaders.


I support independence as much as anyone but the SNP really do need to communicate better the currency and budget strategy upon independence.


A lot is made of the decifit as % of GDP however the SNP need to demonstrate how small the economy currently is compared to countries like Denmark and Norway (Danish GDP is 329 billion USD, ours is around 248 billion USD), if we grew the economy the deficit as % of GDP would go down even without expenditure adjustments.


Here's the BBC "fact check" of the interview, interesting to read over the required independent currency for EU membership as that didn't seem right to me either,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/50552295?ns_linkname=news_central&ns_source=twitter&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_politics

[One Day Soon]

I just listed to it and I think Andy Maciver has it right.

Tough interview on areas that are weak points for the SNP but I thought she handled them as well as she could have and will come out as the "winner" so to say amongst the leaders.


I support independence as much as anyone but the SNP really do need to communicate better the currency and budget strategy upon independence.


A lot is made of the decifit as % of GDP however the SNP need to demonstrate how small the economy currently is compared to countries like Denmark and Norway (Danish GDP is 329 billion USD, ours is around 248 billion USD), if we grew the economy the deficit as % of GDP would go down even without expenditure adjustments.


Here's the BBC "fact check" of the interview, interesting to read over the required independent currency for EU membership as that didn't seem right to me either,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/50552295?ns_linkname=news_central&ns_source=twitter&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_politics


To be fair to Sturgeon - and that's not usually my forte - the issue isn't better communication of the strategies on currency and budget (deficit). The issue is that they have no easy answers on both of those points. There is no simple answer on currency because it cannot be done easily - whether they choose to shadow the pound, create the Groat or go into the Euro there are very hard consequences to all of them.

And the budget deficit is a day one problem of how to find £10 billion worth of public services cuts, tax rises or a mixture of both - even a staggeringly successful growth strategy which performed superbly year on year would take many years to eradicate that deficit.

As to the interviews, a fairer view will be possible once he's finished battering all of them.

[steakbake]

Most people who have an encounter with Andrew Neil get a bit of a doing. I didn't watch it.

More interesting though, is why his name is in Epstein's black book and who else he's given a doing?

[Frankhfc]

To be fair to Sturgeon - and that's not usually my forte - the issue isn't better communication of the strategies on currency and budget (deficit). The issue is that they have no easy answers on both of those points. There is no simple answer on currency because it cannot be done easily - whether they choose to shadow the pound, create the Groat or go into the Euro there are very hard consequences to all of them.

And the budget deficit is a day one problem of how to find £10 billion worth of public services cuts, tax rises or a mixture of both - even a staggeringly successful growth strategy which performed superbly year on year would take many years to eradicate that deficit.

As to the interviews, a fairer view will be possible once he's finished battering all of them.

I was surprised to see a book up and running that Italy are 2/1 favourites for the next country to leave the EU.I wouldn't be rushing to join the Euro.

It would be sods law for us to be so eager to join the EU and EU currency as an independent country just as its beginning to unravel. I think the Euro was a mistake and countries were better equipped with their own. I miss the Lira, Drachma, Franc, Deutsche-mark etc and wouldn't be too unhappy if the Euro did come apart at the seams as could happen.

[JimBHibees]

Cos he’s a grade A weapon in my view

That would be my view also. That hair as well. :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

To be fair to Sturgeon - and that's not usually my forte - the issue isn't better communication of the strategies on currency and budget (deficit). The issue is that they have no easy answers on both of those points. There is no simple answer on currency because it cannot be done easily - whether they choose to shadow the pound, create the Groat or go into the Euro there are very hard consequences to all of them.

And the budget deficit is a day one problem of how to find £10 billion worth of public services cuts, tax rises or a mixture of both - even a staggeringly successful growth strategy which performed superbly year on year would take many years to eradicate that deficit.

As to the interviews, a fairer view will be possible once he's finished battering all of them.

1. If you found £10 bn of cuts and/or tax rises there would be no deficit!
2. Ireland went from a 32% of GDP deficit to a more than manageable 1.9% in 5 years. Yes, with a *lot* of pain but it does illustrate that a much sharper turnaround than that which we actually require is possible.

And as I always say in these discussions, I really don't think hanging around in a declining UK expecting rUK largesse to fund disproportionate Scottish spending forever is a terribly smart strategy either. Remove the "threat" of indy and it'll dry up quicker than you can say "reformed Barnett formula".

[JeMeSouviens]

I was surprised to see a book up and running that Italy are 2/1 favourites for the next country to leave the EU.I wouldn't be rushing to join the Euro.

It would be sods law for us to be so eager to join the EU and EU currency as an independent country just as its beginning to unravel. I think the Euro was a mistake and countries were better equipped with their own. I miss the Lira, Drachma, Franc, Deutsche-mark etc and wouldn't be too unhappy if the Euro did come apart at the seams as could happen.

Wouldn't rush to put money on it ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5D6WucUEAMKmv9.jpg

[The Modfather]

What’s up with his tie? It looks to be so long it will pass his knees when he’s standing!

[Cataplana]

Yup, wait till he goes up against Swinson and Johnson, then you'll see what a kicking is.

And when Cameron Meikelson makes enquiries then you can be sure that the political bams end up getting metaphorically slammed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-50537583

[NAE NOOKIE]

He doesn't want answers in his interviews, his constant interruptions and changing the questions before an answer can be given, resembles an interrogation where he wants to coerce the interviewee into agreeing with his narrative. I see no value in watching his interviews.

I don't mind seeing politicians getting a hard time in interviews, not even ones I support. If you are prepared to enter the political arena you should be prepared to defend your policies and what you stand for.

But that last night was more like 'I'm Andrew Neil and this is what I think of Scottish independence' ... It wasn't an interview because in an interview the interviewee is supposed to be asked questions and then answer them, instead of that every time Sturgeon got three words into an answer she was slapped down or as you say the subject was changed, especially it seemed if the answer was beginning to sound in any way accurate or plausible.

As usual the big stick was Scotland's massive economic deficit which allegedly makes us as suitable to go it alone as the Isle of Wight or Rockall ... The counter question of course is: After 300 years of this incredibly beneficial and precious union how the hell is it that Scotland is so sodding poor, even after discovering oil?

It seems to me we are the geopolitical equivalent of some piss poor eastern European or Asian promised a 'job' and better life in western Europe by a kindly guy in the pub, only to find once you get there that the 'job' is as a prostitute or slave labourer and you owe that same guy £10,000 for getting you there and worse than that he wont give you your passport back.

[CloudSquall]

Given much of GERS is guess work I don't think we'll know for sure the state of the deficit until we are actually independent with everything flowing to Edinburgh rather than London.

[TrinityHibs]

It wasn't great to watch. I've seen Nicola conduct herself far better but it was a tough interview from a veteran host. I don't think Corbyn, Johnson or Swinson would have done much better.

Is he not doing Corbyn tonight? Don’t know why any of them would want to go on as they are all lined up for a doing.

[McSwanky]

I was surprised to see a book up and running that Italy are 2/1 favourites for the next country to leave the EU.I wouldn't be rushing to join the Euro.


I'll give you 3/1, no bother. Minimum stake £100 though :wink: Anyone that backs them at 2/1 hasn't really got their wits about them!

[Ozyhibby]

Just watched it just now for the first time. I would think that Nicola Sturgeon will be reasonably pleased with how it went. She was never flustered and on the tough questions she showed she had answers.
Will be interesting to see how the other leaders get on. Jo Swinson should really phone a sicky for her interview.


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[Frankhfc]

I'll give you 3/1, no bother. Minimum stake £100 though :wink: Anyone that backs them at 2/1 hasn't really got their wits about them!

Its William Hill that's quoted Italy at 2/1 to be next to leave the EU. I'm just the messenger :aok:. Thought it was an interesting point to make as we would be seeking to join both the EU and very probably the Euro when going independent. Might be better off with our own currency.

[Ozyhibby]

Its William Hill that's quoted Italy at 2/1 to be next to leave the EU. I'm just the messenger :aok:. Thought it was an interesting point to make as we would be seeking to join both the EU and very probably the Euro when going independent. Might be better off with our own currency.

Very probably the Euro? Did you read that the same place you read Italy were leaving the EU?


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[Frankhfc]

Very probably the Euro? Did you read that the same place you read Italy were leaving the EU?


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Don't understand you're point?

[Frankhfc]

Very probably the Euro? Did you read that the same place you read Italy were leaving the EU?


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I didn't post that Italy were leaving the EU. If you read the post properly you'll read that it is William Hill that has Italy at 2/1 to be the next country to leave the EU.

[RyeSloan]

I didn't post that Italy were leaving the EU. If you read the post properly you'll read that it is William Hill that has Italy at 2/1 to be the next country to leave the EU.

Which is probably because despite being in the EU and the Euro its economy has only just recovered to be the same size as it was in 2004. Aligned to near 10% unemployment ( 30% of you are under 24) then you can see why a few of them might be a bit sick of it all. Zero growth in 15 years!

The political will to leave either the EU or the Euro is probably not there in Italy just now but it’s pretty clear membership of both hasn’t exactly worked out for them overly well over the last decade and a half.

And yup I get Italy’s domestic policies have hardly helped but it does also show that just being a member of a trading bloc means zip in terms of guaranteeing your economic well being.

[Frankhfc]

Which is probably because despite being in the EU and the Euro its economy has only just recovered to be the same size as it was in 2004. Aligned to near 10% unemployment ( 30% of you are under 24) then you can see why a few of them might be a bit sick of it all. Zero growth in 15 years!

The political will to leave either the EU or the Euro is probably not there in Italy just now but it’s pretty clear membership of both hasn’t exactly worked out for them overly well over the last decade and a half.

And yup I get Italy’s domestic policies have hardly helped but it does also show that just being a member of a trading bloc means zip in terms of guaranteeing your economic well being.

Yeah, the EU has its own set of economic problems and when the UK leaves it will certainly mean at least short term economic shocks across it. I think if we do go independent that we should set our own currency even if it is worth less than ruk. It would at least allow us some level of actual independence and afford us an economic lever that can balance and check our economy.

[Hibrandenburg]

I was surprised to see a book up and running that Italy are 2/1 favourites for the next country to leave the EU.I wouldn't be rushing to join the Euro.

It would be sods law for us to be so eager to join the EU and EU currency as an independent country just as its beginning to unravel. I think the Euro was a mistake and countries were better equipped with their own. I miss the Lira, Drachma, Franc, Deutsche-mark etc and wouldn't be too unhappy if the Euro did come apart at the seams as could happen.

You only miss it because you still have the pound. The Euro is brilliant, it means I can travel around most EU countries without filling the coffers of Currency Exchange Pirates. Long may it continue.

[Mibbes Aye]

Most people who have an encounter with Andrew Neil get a bit of a doing. I didn't watch it.

More interesting though, is why his name is in Epstein's black book and who else he's given a doing?

I find Andrew Neill a bit unsavoury but as an interviewer I think he puts politicians on the spot.

His researchers are always on point and if he interrupts, it is usually when the pol is starting to deflect or waffle.

He has limited time and can’t afford to waste it. And being cynical, the haranguing of the pol makes it more likely for them to go off-script and potentially give an honest answer.

[Frankhfc]

You only miss it because you still have the pound. The Euro is brilliant, it means I can travel around most EU countries without filling the coffers of Currency Exchange Pirates. Long may it continue.

Fair point indeed. Certainly one of the benefits of a single currency.

[Ozyhibby]

I find Andrew Neill a bit unsavoury but as an interviewer I think he puts politicians on the spot.

His researchers are always on point and if he interrupts, it is usually when the pol is starting to deflect or waffle.

He has limited time and can’t afford to waste it. And being cynical, the haranguing of the pol makes it more likely for them to go off-script and potentially give an honest answer.

I like Andrew Neil and he is one of the best interviewers out there but having watched Corbyn and Sturgeon now I do think he’s been a bit off his game the last two days. His interruptions have actually allowed them both to avoid answering questions fully. I would have liked to have heard more from Sturgeon on the NHS and especially the sick kids but he never allowed any sort of in depth answer.


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[Mibbes Aye]

I like Andrew Neil and he is one of the best interviewers out there but having watched Corbyn and Sturgeon now I do think he’s been a bit off his game the last two days. His interruptions have actually allowed them both to avoid answering questions fully. I would have liked to have heard more from Sturgeon on the NHS and especially the sick kids but he never allowed any sort of in depth answer.


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Not seen the Sturgeon one but downloaded it and will watch it at some point over the next few nights.

[Ozyhibby]

Not seen the Sturgeon one but downloaded it and will watch it at some point over the next few nights.

You won’t see anything new in it you haven’t seen before. He touches on the NHS at the end but never really probed in any meaningful way. I get the feeling he was looking punchy for gotcha moments that he could tweet rather than actually find out what was happening.


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[ronaldo7]

I'm on holiday in Oz and not able to properly keep up but I've read some accounts that NS performed very badly on some TV show.

What occurred?

Just watched it. 27 minutes in and she's answered everything he's fired at her. Then he moves into his scatter gun approach trying to get something to stick, but she deals with that also.

I'd seen that she took a "doing" on Twitter today, courtesy of ruth the mooth, but if that's a "doing", I await the others.

[CloudSquall]

If you have Twitter have a read of Andrew Neil's page, he just retweets messages saying how fantastic he is, cringeworthy material.

[Mibbes Aye]

You won’t see anything new in it you haven’t seen before. He touches on the NHS at the end but never really probed in any meaningful way. I get the feeling he was looking punchy for gotcha moments that he could tweet rather than actually find out what was happening.


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Decided to watch it, given Olympiacos chose to throw away their lead against Spurs.

She certainly got a tougher time than she will ever get at Holyrood, but that’s the same for everyone going up against someone like Andrew Neill. I thought it started very gently but picked up pace.

I thought she got herself in knots early on in the conversation, when it was focused on Brexit. There was a moment when she talked about her ‘priority being prioritisation’. But I will give her credit, there were moments when she came across very well. Her point about running a minority government and having to find compromise to set budgets made her sound like a real leader (even if the detail might be slightly less convincing :greengrin).

As in the Corbyn interview, Neill is good at finding the point the leader can’t answer and he did that with currency reserves. It only takes repeating the question a few times to ensure it becomes clear that they don’t have an answer. Likewise with pushing why she supported a confirmatory referendum on Brexit but not a confirmatory referendum on any Indy vote.

As for the NHS bit at the end, I thought he did catch her out.

She didn’t know by how much they were missing the legally-binding 12-week treatment time target, you know, the one they set themselves. I think she said they were in the eighties and Neill told her it was 72%

And when asked about the Sick Kids being nine years late, I think she said, “Well, there’s construction difficulties”.

None of that will make a difference to anyone likely to vote SNP I am sure. It showed her on the back foot for everyone else, I’m sure.

Still, not as bad as Corbyn :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Decided to watch it, given Olympiacos chose to throw away their lead against Spurs.

She certainly got a tougher time than she will ever get at Holyrood, but that’s the same for everyone going up against someone like Andrew Neill. I thought it started very gently but picked up pace.

I thought she got herself in knots early on in the conversation, when it was focused on Brexit. There was a moment when she talked about her ‘priority being prioritisation’. But I will give her credit, there were moments when she came across very well. Her point about running a minority government and having to find compromise to set budgets made her sound like a real leader (even if the detail might be slightly less convincing :greengrin).

As in the Corbyn interview, Neill is good at finding the point the leader can’t answer and he did that with currency reserves. It only takes repeating the question a few times to ensure it becomes clear that they don’t have an answer. Likewise with pushing why she supported a confirmatory referendum on Brexit but not a confirmatory referendum on any Indy vote.

As for the NHS bit at the end, I thought he did catch her out.

She didn’t know by how much they were missing the legally-binding 12-week treatment time target, you know, the one they set themselves. I think she said they were in the eighties and Neill told her it was 72%

And when asked about the Sick Kids being nine years late, I think she said, “Well, there’s construction difficulties”.

None of that will make a difference to anyone likely to vote SNP I am sure. It showed her on the back foot for everyone else, I’m sure.

Still, not as bad as Corbyn :greengrin

The SNP base is pretty solid about the 40% mark and should hold steady for another election cycle so it’s unlikely to make much difference although they need to get out the vote.
Biggest thing this election in Scotland is if the Tory vote goes lower because of brexit.


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[Ozyhibby]

Decided to watch it, given Olympiacos chose to throw away their lead against Spurs.

She certainly got a tougher time than she will ever get at Holyrood, but that’s the same for everyone going up against someone like Andrew Neill. I thought it started very gently but picked up pace.

I thought she got herself in knots early on in the conversation, when it was focused on Brexit. There was a moment when she talked about her ‘priority being prioritisation’. But I will give her credit, there were moments when she came across very well. Her point about running a minority government and having to find compromise to set budgets made her sound like a real leader (even if the detail might be slightly less convincing :greengrin).

As in the Corbyn interview, Neill is good at finding the point the leader can’t answer and he did that with currency reserves. It only takes repeating the question a few times to ensure it becomes clear that they don’t have an answer. Likewise with pushing why she supported a confirmatory referendum on Brexit but not a confirmatory referendum on any Indy vote.

As for the NHS bit at the end, I thought he did catch her out.

She didn’t know by how much they were missing the legally-binding 12-week treatment time target, you know, the one they set themselves. I think she said they were in the eighties and Neill told her it was 72%

And when asked about the Sick Kids being nine years late, I think she said, “Well, there’s construction difficulties”.

None of that will make a difference to anyone likely to vote SNP I am sure. It showed her on the back foot for everyone else, I’m sure.

Still, not as bad as Corbyn :greengrin

On the currency she has to do better. They need a solid answer that is easily understood. It’s a currency ffs, every country has one. I’m sure we can do it too. She needs to up her game.


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[RyeSloan]

On the currency she has to do better. They need a solid answer that is easily understood. It’s a currency ffs, every country has one. I’m sure we can do it too. She needs to up her game.


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Dunno why she just doesn’t come out and say it’s easy and only takes a couple of weeks to sort out...aka the .net solution to the currency question [emoji2957]

[Hibbyradge]

Dunno why she just doesn’t come out and say it’s easy and only takes a couple of weeks to sort out...aka the .net solution to the currency question [emoji2957]

Don't you mean "as known as the Brexiteers solution to having no trade deals"?

[Mibbes Aye]

Don't you mean "as known as the Brexiteers solution to having no trade deals"?

I sense a common theme emerging...

[lord bunberry]

Dunno why she just doesn’t come out and say it’s easy and only takes a couple of weeks to sort out...aka the .net solution to the currency question [emoji2957]
We could just continue to use sterling. We used it before the union, it’s not and never has been a currency of the uk.

[Mibbes Aye]

We could just continue to use sterling. We used it before the union, it’s not and never has been a currency of the uk.

It is late and I am tired but does that not just bring up the point James310 used to make?

Taking Sterling as the currency in an independent Scotland means being subject to whatever policy decisions are made by the Bank of England - they may suit an iS, they may not suit an iS - but either way there’s no control??

[Ozyhibby]

It is late and I am tired but does that not just bring up the point James310 used to make?

Taking Sterling as the currency in an independent Scotland means being subject to whatever policy decisions are made by the Bank of England - they may suit an iS, they may not suit an iS - but either way there’s no control??

That’s not a lot different from now. The Bank of England tend to make decisions based on the economy in the south of England. A couple of years back I remember them talking about raising the interest rates because the property market was overheating. At that time the only property market that was going up anywhere in the UK was in London. The rest of the country was still recovering from 2008.
Despite what the British nationalists say I think there would be an offer of monetary union after independence because it would benefit the rUK as well. They would want North Sea oil traded in sterling. If it wasn’t, demand for sterling would drop.
During the campaign though, that’s off the table so we have to have a different plan.
It needs to be better fleshed out now by the SNP.


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[One Day Soon]

That’s not a lot different from now. The Bank of England tend to make decisions based on the economy in the south of England. A couple of years back I remember them talking about raising the interest rates because the property market was overheating. At that time the only property market that was going up anywhere in the UK was in London. The rest of the country was still recovering from 2008.
Despite what the British nationalists say I think there would be an offer of monetary union after independence because it would benefit the rUK as well. They would want North Sea oil traded in sterling. If it wasn’t, demand for sterling would drop.
During the campaign though, that’s off the table so we have to have a different plan.
It needs to be better fleshed out now by the SNP.


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It's wildly different from now. No political relationship whatsoever between Government and central bank, control of interest rates set by the bank of a separate sovereign nation, money supply controlled by a separate nation's bank and capacity to borrow determined by the strength of a separate nation's currency.

It's a lot, lot worse than now. Effectively, even less control of our own economic destiny in exchange for saltire flags.

Isn't it just the operating costs of North Sea oil that are paid in pounds while the actual oil is traded in dollars?

[Ozyhibby]

Hadn’t realised that Johnson still hasn’t agreed to do one of these interviews. The BBC just giving him a free pass?


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[RyeSloan]

Hadn’t realised that Johnson still hasn’t agreed to do one of these interviews. The BBC just giving him a free pass?


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Poor form from Johnson of so but what do you expect the BBC to do if he says no?

[Ozyhibby]

Poor form from Johnson of so but what do you expect the BBC to do if he says no?

Not give him exactly what he wants with debates only with Corbyn?


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[JeMeSouviens]

Poor form from Johnson of so but what do you expect the BBC to do if he says no?

If they got Corbyn, Sturgeon etc on the understanding that all leaders had agreed when they didn't have the commitments then they're on shaky ground.

[Frankhfc]

That’s not a lot different from now. The Bank of England tend to make decisions based on the economy in the south of England. A couple of years back I remember them talking about raising the interest rates because the property market was overheating. At that time the only property market that was going up anywhere in the UK was in London. The rest of the country was still recovering from 2008.
Despite what the British nationalists say I think there would be an offer of monetary union after independence because it would benefit the rUK as well. They would want North Sea oil traded in sterling. If it wasn’t, demand for sterling would drop.
During the campaign though, that’s off the table so we have to have a different plan.
It needs to be better fleshed out now by the SNP.


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There's not a shred of evidence for this. It would be nigh impossible to retain the GBP post independence as we'd be converging towards the euro or at least taking steps to commit to it.

I think we should hold on to our own independent Scottish currency for as long as we can unless an enforced mechanism is put into place by the EU whereby forcing member countries into adopting the Euro.

[Peevemor]

If they got Corbyn, Sturgeon etc on the understanding that all leaders had agreed when they didn't have the commitments then they're on shaky ground.

Unfortunately there's definitely no chance of getting Wilson Pickett now either.

[Ozyhibby]

There's not a shred of evidence for this. It would be nigh impossible to retain the GBP post independence as we'd be converging towards the euro or at least taking steps to commit to it.

I think we should hold on to our own independent Scottish currency for as long as we can unless an enforced mechanism is put into place by the EU whereby forcing member countries into adopting the Euro.

There is no chance of us being forced into the Euro. Our own currency is the way to go and from there we can make our own choices. It will likely to be pegged to sterling for a while anyway to allow a smooth transition.


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[Frankhfc]

Dunno why she just doesn’t come out and say it’s easy and only takes a couple of weeks to sort out...aka the .net solution to the currency question [emoji2957]

Primarily because it won't be easy and there will be seismic economic shocks felt everywhere when we do become independent, however, the goal is to become independent and whatever happens until things calm down a bit is neither here nor there.

I would hope to have our own currency idea sorted out well before indy ref 2 as its a critical area and shouldn't be neglected as it would greatly arm those against independence.

[Frankhfc]

There is no chance of us being forced into the Euro. Our own currency is the way to go and from there we can make our own choices. It will likely to be pegged to sterling for a while anyway to allow a smooth transition.


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You keep translating my posts wrongly. I didn't say we would be forced into the Euro. We'd be expected to commit to it until such time as we either adopt it in full or if the EU get around to a policy of enforcement which is not that unlikely in the future given the ever increasing move to further integration.

[JeMeSouviens]

Unfortunately there's definitely no chance of getting Wilson Pickett now either.

Even if we wait till the midnight hour? :confused:

[Frankhfc]

There is no chance of us being forced into the Euro. Our own currency is the way to go and from there we can make our own choices. It will likely to be pegged to sterling for a while anyway to allow a smooth transition.


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I agree with you on this. Pegging of currencies is a standard normal practice but it does have downsides as well as benefits as shown in the past by other countries. We'd require very large deposits of reserves which could detrimentally harm fiscal spending/policies. However, it would very probably be better that than a free floating one.

[TrinityHibs]

We could just continue to use sterling. We used it before the union, it’s not and never has been a currency of the uk.

I don’t know the answer but will ask the question. Who stands behind sterling (Scot)? Who guarantees the currency. I assume it isn’t the Bank of England who would be a major player in a competitive economy should independence happen.

[Bristolhibby]

I don’t know the answer but will ask the question. Who stands behind sterling (Scot)? Who guarantees the currency. I assume it isn’t the Bank of England who would be a major player in a competitive economy should independence happen.

Is 8% of the BOE not Scottish? As a key stakeholder, we would have the same input that we have now with Sterling (ie none).

Where’s the risk?

Pegged until Scottish £ launches. Can the BOE Guarentee two currencies until BOS stands up?

J

[Ozyhibby]

Is 8% of the BOE not Scottish? As a key stakeholder, we would have the same input that we have now with Sterling (ie none).

Where’s the risk?

Pegged until Scottish £ launches. Can the BOE Guarentee two currencies until BOS stands up?

J

Correct, although we may not have the input afterwards we are certainly entitled to a share of the reserves which we would need for setting up our own currency.


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[NAE NOOKIE]

Correct, although we may not have the input afterwards we are certainly entitled to a share of the reserves which we would need for setting up our own currency.


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That's where I don't get a lot of the waffle around the subject. The way its portrayed you would think after independence Scotland would have no right to a proportion of the former UK's assets .... Even morally there's a discussion to be had around what position Scotland would have been in now had it been an independent country the day oil was discovered in the north sea and hadn't been part of a larger entity which has pissed that enormous bonus away with absolutely sod all to show for it.

Scotland, the only country ever to have discovered oil and got poorer isnt even a joke any more ... made even worse by the fact that half the folk in the entity presiding over that state of affairs have been brainwashed into believing that Scotland is an economic drain on them.

[Ozyhibby]

That's where I don't get a lot of the waffle around the subject. The way its portrayed you would think after independence Scotland would have no right to a proportion of the former UK's assets .... Even morally there's a discussion to be had around what position Scotland would have been in now had it been an independent country the day oil was discovered in the north sea and hadn't been part of a larger entity which has pissed that enormous bonus away with absolutely sod all to show for it.

Scotland, the only country ever to have discovered oil and got poorer isnt even a joke any more ... made even worse by the fact that half the folk in the entity presiding over that state of affairs have been brainwashed into believing that Scotland is an economic drain on them.

I agree with that although there are lots of countries who discovered oil and got poorer. Venezuela is a great example of that just now.


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[RyeSloan]

That's where I don't get a lot of the waffle around the subject. The way its portrayed you would think after independence Scotland would have no right to a proportion of the former UK's assets .... Even morally there's a discussion to be had around what position Scotland would have been in now had it been an independent country the day oil was discovered in the north sea and hadn't been part of a larger entity which has pissed that enormous bonus away with absolutely sod all to show for it.

Scotland, the only country ever to have discovered oil and got poorer isnt even a joke any more ... made even worse by the fact that half the folk in the entity presiding over that state of affairs have been brainwashed into believing that Scotland is an economic drain on them.

Scotland is poorer now than in 1970? How have you measured that?

[NAE NOOKIE]

I agree with that although there are lots of countries who discovered oil and got poorer. Venezuela is a great example of that just now.


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Indeed, but as I understand it corruption and mismanagement have a lot to do with that something you would hope Scotland would have avoided.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Scotland is poorer now than in 1970? How have you measured that?

Its not a question of relative poverty in relation to how we were in 1970. Its based on the fact that as Andrew Neil delighted in saying the other night Scotland if an independent country would have one of the worst, if not the worst, deficits in Europe making it uniquely placed to have no chance of being an independent country. Not to mention the fact that any unionist you ask will delight in the fact as they see it that Scotland is in a position after 300 years in 'the words most successful union' of being utterly incapable of functioning as a state on its own because we are so poor ... their words, not mine.

That makes us worse off than other independent European states of comparable size who didnt discover oil and I presume considerably worse off than the other northern European country of almost exactly comparable size that did. On that basis its not a lie to say that Scotland discovered oil and got poorer is it?

[JeMeSouviens]

Johnson trying to get away with doing Andrew Marr instead. ****.

[Ozyhibby]

Johnson trying to get away with doing Andrew Marr instead. ****.

If the BBC allow that then they have given up the pretence of impartiality. Tells you all you need to know about Andrew Marr as well.


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[WhileTheChief..]

Johnson did one of these recently with Andrew Neil when going for Conservative leader.

[lapsedhibee]

If the BBC allow that then they have given up the pretence of impartiality. Tells you all you need to know about Andrew Marr as well.


Shirley not for the BBC to allow or disallow it? They can't force him to appear. If the electorate allows it, then they get what they deserve, a ****.

[JeMeSouviens]

Shirley not for the BBC to allow or disallow it? They can't force him to appear. If the electorate allows it, then they get what they deserve, a ****.

They seem to have lied to Corbyn & Sturgeon and got them to submit to a Neil "kicking" under false pretences. Shocker from the beeb. They seem hellbent on feeding the conspiracy theorists atm.

[marinello59]

They seem to have lied to Corbyn & Sturgeon and got them to submit to a Neil "kicking" under false pretences. Shocker from the beeb. They seem hellbent on feeding the conspiracy theorists atm.

Or it seems like they both agreed to appear without checking that Johnson had actually agreed terms. Their choice and in Corbyn's case a very bad one. The fact that Johnson was taking so long to agree should have had alarm bells ringing given his tendency to hide from tough questioning.

[Ozyhibby]

Shirley not for the BBC to allow or disallow it? They can't force him to appear. If the electorate allows it, then they get what they deserve, a ****.

They don’t have to let him on Marr either though.


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[Frankhfc]

They seem to have lied to Corbyn & Sturgeon and got them to submit to a Neil "kicking" under false pretences. Shocker from the beeb. They seem hellbent on feeding the conspiracy theorists atm.

I agree. Its not good that the Beeb had both Sturgeon and Jeremy on prior to ensuring that Johnson especially would be subject to the same grilling.

[Mibbes Aye]

Or it seems like they both agreed to appear without checking that Johnson had actually agreed terms. Their choice and in Corbyn's case a very bad one. The fact that Johnson was taking so long to agree should have had alarm bells ringing given his tendency to hide from tough questioning.

Yup. Politics is dirty and this would be pretty low, but damnit, it would be ‘good’ tactical politics if this what has happened. I think the list of people who like Dominic Cummings is relatively short but it looks like he may have played a blinder here.

[lapsedhibee]

They don’t have to let him on Marr either though.

They should never have let Eddie Mair go.

[Since90+2]

Yup. Politics is dirty and this would be pretty low, but damnit, it would be ‘good’ tactical politics if this what has happened. I think the list of people who like Dominic Cummings is relatively short but it looks like he may have played a blinder here.

Sorry, but it's not "good" politics at all. If Corbyn had done similar he would be getting slaughtered by the press.

It's a shameful move by a PM who has shown complete disregard for voters.

That's not "good" for anyone, and despite them likely not realising it it's not good for conservative voters either.

If he is allowed to get away with this it's extremely worrying what he will be allowed with if he continues as PM.

[lapsedhibee]

Sorry, but it's not "good" politics at all. If Corbyn had done similar he would be getting slaughtered by the press.

It's a shameful move by a PM who has shown complete disregard for voters

That's not "good" at all, and despite them likely not realising it it's not good for conservative voters either.

Govey and Bozo Pater turned up for Ch4 leaders' debate and Ch4 turned them away. That's more like it. Ch4 1, BBC -1.

[Mibbes Aye]

Sorry, but it's not "good" politics at all. If Corbyn had done similar he would be getting slaughtered by the press.

It's a shameful move by a PM who has shown complete disregard for voters

That's not "good" at all, and despite them likely not realising it it's not good for conservative voters either.

Steady on, I put good in inverted commas for a reason. Maybe if you didn’t understand that then I should have said ‘clever’ or ‘astute’.

The Johnson strategists are doing an effective job, regardless of whether you, I or anyone else on here doesn’t like it. They simply are.

They have clamped the likes of JRM and stayed resolutely on-message, even if it is a depressing message.

Johnson just needs to stick to what he is doing, staying on-message and avoiding him or his team making unscripted comments. That will probably deliver him a majority.

Letting the opposition leaders sign up to Neil and ducking it himself isn’t just good politics, if it is true it was brilliant politics. Swinson and Farage can’t withdraw now and will face the forensic and unsympathetic challenge on prime time TV. Corbyn got a brutal time and the narrative became all about his refusal to apologise about anti-Semitism.

When it comes to the 12th, it will matter little for most that Johnson ducked an interview. He just needs not to alienate his core vote and those who mistrust Corbyn and he is home and dry. By avoiding scrutiny he is doing just that.

[One Day Soon]

Steady on, I put good in inverted commas for a reason. Maybe if you didn’t understand that then I should have said ‘clever’ or ‘astute’.

The Johnson strategists are doing an effective job, regardless of whether you, I or anyone else on here doesn’t like it. They simply are.

They have clamped the likes of JRM and stayed resolutely on-message, even if it is a depressing message.

Johnson just needs to stick to what he is doing, staying on-message and avoiding him or his team making unscripted comments. That will probably deliver him a majority.

Letting the opposition leaders sign up to Neil and ducking it himself isn’t just good politics, if it is true it was brilliant politics. Swinson and Farage can’t withdraw now and will face the forensic and unsympathetic challenge on prime time TV. Corbyn got a brutal time and the narrative became all about his refusal to apologise about anti-Semitism.

When it comes to the 12th, it will matter little for most that Johnson ducked an interview. He just needs not to alienate his core vote and those who mistrust Corbyn and he is home and dry. By avoiding scrutiny he is doing just that.


You're absolutely right. It's cynical, despicable and utterly fraudulent stuff - but it's also extremely effective.

I understand their next steps will be on voting processes. Voter ID at polling stations next time to depress the voter turnout differentially.

[Ozyhibby]

Steady on, I put good in inverted commas for a reason. Maybe if you didn’t understand that then I should have said ‘clever’ or ‘astute’.

The Johnson strategists are doing an effective job, regardless of whether you, I or anyone else on here doesn’t like it. They simply are.

They have clamped the likes of JRM and stayed resolutely on-message, even if it is a depressing message.

Johnson just needs to stick to what he is doing, staying on-message and avoiding him or his team making unscripted comments. That will probably deliver him a majority.

Letting the opposition leaders sign up to Neil and ducking it himself isn’t just good politics, if it is true it was brilliant politics. Swinson and Farage can’t withdraw now and will face the forensic and unsympathetic challenge on prime time TV. Corbyn got a brutal time and the narrative became all about his refusal to apologise about anti-Semitism.

When it comes to the 12th, it will matter little for most that Johnson ducked an interview. He just needs not to alienate his core vote and those who mistrust Corbyn and he is home and dry. By avoiding scrutiny he is doing just that.

Absolutely correct. The whole campaign is based around saying ‘get brexit done’ as much as possible and it works. It was obvious it would work before the campaign started. People want simple messages delivered constantly.


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[Jones28]

Absolutely correct. The whole campaign is based around saying ‘get brexit done’ as much as possible and it works. It was obvious it would work before the campaign started. People want simple messages delivered constantly.


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I was listening to Johnny Vaughan on radio x - funny and informative - and they were discussing Trump v Hilary in the last US election. Apparently Hilary used something like 80 different sayings or messages, whereas Trump used 1. I think they called it single point marketing but I can’t remember specifically, and if there was any proof required to measure the effectiveness it’s that election, and it looks like it will work here too.

[RyeSloan]

I was listening to Johnny Vaughan on radio x - funny and informative - and they were discussing Trump v Hilary in the last US election. Apparently Hilary used something like 80 different sayings or messages, whereas Trump used 1. I think they called it single point marketing but I can’t remember specifically, and if there was any proof required to measure the effectiveness it’s that election, and it looks like it will work here too.

I’m at a loss then why ‘honest broker’ is not being just as effective for Corbyn...

[Mibbes Aye]

I’m at a loss then why ‘honest broker’ is not being just as effective for Corbyn...

:greengrin

[Alex Trager]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191128/8d76e4b2f9308eb01ce48514d9de7cc6.jpg

[Alex Trager]

I was listening to Johnny Vaughan on radio x - funny and informative - and they were discussing Trump v Hilary in the last US election. Apparently Hilary used something like 80 different sayings or messages, whereas Trump used 1. I think they called it single point marketing but I can’t remember specifically, and if there was any proof required to measure the effectiveness it’s that election, and it looks like it will work here too.

I’d take everything JV says with a pinch of salt.

I never heard him saying that tonight and whilst it is true he likes to make things up or bend the truth. Which I find personally hugely entertaining.

My fave radio DJ.

However there is a huge amount of talk about this on other stations, and on here as well.

Politics today is about soundbites.

I heard someone on LBC saying that JC should go into depth behind his policies and personalise the message.

Whilst that would appeal to me and maybe you, that does not appeal to the electorate.

[lord bunberry]

Or it seems like they both agreed to appear without checking that Johnson had actually agreed terms. Their choice and in Corbyn's case a very bad one. The fact that Johnson was taking so long to agree should have had alarm bells ringing given his tendency to hide from tough questioning.
Corbyn was told that Johnson was appearing.

[marinello59]

Corbyn was told that Johnson was appearing.

I have no inside info, only what is in the public domain so I’ll defer to you. Was he told he would be appearing or had been invited?

[lord bunberry]

I have no inside info, only what is in the public domain so I’ll defer to you. Was he told he would be appearing or had been invited?
The piece I saw on the tv was that Corbyn asked and was told that Johnson would be appearing next week.

[marinello59]

The piece I saw on the tv was that Corbyn asked and was told that Johnson would be appearing next week.

Which begs the same question. Was told that Johnson had agreed to appear or had been invited?

[lord bunberry]

Which begs the same question. Was told that Johnson had agreed to appear or had been invited?
It said he’d agreed to do an interview, but a date hadn’t been agreed and it would probably be next week. It also went on to say that it was a problem for the BBC if Johnson didn’t appear.

[Andy Bee]

Which begs the same question. Was told that Johnson had agreed to appear or had been invited?

From what I've read he has agreed to appear but can't agree a date, according to John McDonnell he's trying to stall until the majority of postal votes are cast, pretty fly if true.

[marinello59]

It said he’d agreed to do an interview, but a date hadn’t been agreed and it would probably be next week. It also went on to say that it was a problem for the BBC if Johnson didn’t appear.

So Corbyn went ahead knowing there was no agreement when Johnson would appear and signed up anyway. If Johnson hadn’t agreed a date then it means he hadn’t agreed to appear at all. Corbyn needs to look at his advisors if he wants to blame anybody here.

[lord bunberry]

So Corbyn went ahead knowing there was no agreement when Johnson would appear and signed up anyway. If Johnson hadn’t agreed a date then it means he hadn’t agreed to appear at all. Corbyn needs to look at his advisors if he wants to blame anybody here.
I’m not sure I agree that not agreeing a date means you haven’t agreed to do the interview.

[Mibbes Aye]

So Corbyn went ahead knowing there was no agreement when Johnson would appear and signed up anyway. If Johnson hadn’t agreed a date then it means he hadn’t agreed to appear at all. Corbyn needs to look at his advisors if he wants to blame anybody here.

Yes.

The thing is that if Corbyn had been strong and made a massive rebuttal on anti-Semitism then there might have been a bit of momentum, excuse the pun.

The problem is he can’t commit to opposing Brexit because the hard left swivel heads who control him, won’t let him, not that he is clever enough to argue that anyway.

[lord bunberry]

Yes.

The thing is that if Corbyn had been strong and made a massive rebuttal on anti-Semitism then there might have been a bit of momentum, excuse the pun.

The problem is he can’t commit to opposing Brexit because the hard left swivel heads who control him, won’t let him, not that he is clever enough to argue that anyway.
That’s not got anything to do with whether he did the interview without knowing that Johnson was going to do one though is it.