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Stuart93
21-11-2019, 08:13 PM
Just seen a stat on Twitter that both Mallan & Vela are in the top 7 for the most dribbled past midfielders in the league.

One of them’s first the other seventh but unsure what way around.

Iggy Pope
21-11-2019, 08:16 PM
Just seen a stat on Twitter that both Mallan & Vela are in the top 7 for the most dribbled past midfielders in the league.

One of them’s first the other seventh but unsure what way around.

Not that much of a stat if there’s 7 symptoms and no idea which ends what.

J-C
21-11-2019, 08:16 PM
Mallan has been forced to play deeper which isn't his game, he does try but just not that good at the defensive side, Vela is just guff, it's that simple and the reason we were losing/drawing games due to teams walking right through our midfield.

Hermit Crab
21-11-2019, 08:17 PM
Get rid of both imo.

DetroitHibs
21-11-2019, 08:20 PM
Neither are good enough for a team with top four aspirations.

SquashedFrogg
21-11-2019, 08:21 PM
Get rid of both imo.

Lol

This fact was raised earlier in the week. Clearly Ross hasn't made the impact we hoped for.

SquashedFrogg
21-11-2019, 08:21 PM
Neither are good enough for a team with top four aspirations.

Lol

J-C
21-11-2019, 08:23 PM
Neither are good enough for a team with top four aspirations.


Funny how Mallan was player of the year last season, how the mighty have fallen, all praise one minute to absolutely honking the next.

Stuart93
21-11-2019, 08:24 PM
Not that much of a stat if there’s 7 symptoms and no idea which ends what.

The person who tweeted the info knows who’s where but never said.

Either Mallan or Vela have been dribbled past the most this season. Either Mallan or Vela have been dribbled past the 7th most. Not great reading either way & highlights where our struggles stem from this season.

B.H.F.C
21-11-2019, 08:25 PM
When Mallan played for Ross at St Mirren, I’m pretty sure most folk would have wanted him at ER, so maybe he’ll find a way to get the best from him. Forget trying to accommodate him on the wing or deep though.

Marvellous
21-11-2019, 08:27 PM
Wonder what the stats are for midfielders scoring sublime goals, Mallan will be near the top of that list.

J-C
21-11-2019, 08:27 PM
When Mallan played for Ross at St Mirren, I’m pretty sure most folk would have wanted him at ER, so maybe he’ll find a way to get the best from him. Forget trying to accommodate him on the wing or deep though.


He could play 2 attacking midfielders behind the one striker 4-3-2-1

we are hibs
21-11-2019, 08:28 PM
Funny how Mallan was player of the year last season, how the mighty have fallen, all praise one minute to absolutely honking the next.

He hardly set the league alight last season either. The same issues are still there as they were last season but people are taking more notice because of the lack of goals/assists. A midfielder who cannot/will not tackle.

SquashedFrogg
21-11-2019, 08:39 PM
He hardly set the league alight last season either. The same issues are still there as they were last season but people are taking more notice because of the lack of goals/assists. A midfielder who cannot/will not tackle.

Does Scott Allan tackle?

1875Hibees
21-11-2019, 08:43 PM
Lol
Great point made there. You might want to explain how either are good enough without just looking at the stats and saying 'Mallan scores goals'. I will give Vela a bit of time to see how he plays with the new manager but Mallan has played poorly for long enough.

Onceinawhile
21-11-2019, 08:50 PM
Mallan is "first" vela 7th.

Hector Mudflap
21-11-2019, 08:57 PM
I think Mallan will come good again , he's been playing for a manager that ruined him the last time . The guy can pay and with JR at the helm maybe we will see a new player. Vela... I just don't get that guy at all but there must be a player in there somewhere. A new start for them all is what I think we should agree on.

SquashedFrogg
21-11-2019, 08:57 PM
Great point made there. You might want to explain how either are good enough without just looking at the stats and saying 'Mallan scores goals'. I will give Vela a bit of time to see how he plays with the new manager but Mallan has played poorly for long enough.

Thanks mate. Although I never actually mentioned about Mallan scoring goals?

SquashedFrogg
21-11-2019, 09:02 PM
I think Mallan will come good again , he's been playing for a manager that ruined him the last time . The guy can pay and with JR at the helm maybe we will see a new player. Vela... I just don't get that guy at all but there must be a player in there somewhere. A new start for them all is what I think we should agree on.

Totally where I'm at. Fresh start/new approach will hopefully see players reinvigorated.

Hopefully....

Buzzing for Saturday.

1875Hibees
21-11-2019, 09:05 PM
Thanks mate. Although I never actually mentioned about Mallan scoring goals?
Sorry if thats not what you were meaning. Normally everyone that claims he's good uses it.

SquashedFrogg
21-11-2019, 09:09 PM
Sorry if thats not what you were meaning. Normally everyone that claims he's good uses it.

I just think he's a better player than we've all seen. Like many over last year, looks low in confidence.

blackpoolhibs
21-11-2019, 09:14 PM
I just think he's a better player than we've all seen. Like many over last year, looks low in confidence.

I hear this a lot with Hibs players, I much prefer it when they actually play well watching them than thinking they have more in the locker.

Always thought good players perform when the chips are down.

Stuart93
21-11-2019, 09:17 PM
Fwiw I think Mallan’s been hung out to dry a bit with where he’s being made to play. Think it’s clear his natural position is in behind the striker(s) where there’d be a lot less emphasis on him to put a tackle in.

He’s also unfortunate that Scott Allan is better than him in that position.

When he scores though, he scores.

we are hibs
21-11-2019, 09:19 PM
Does Scott Allan tackle?

Yes.

SquashedFrogg
21-11-2019, 09:33 PM
Yes.

Fair enough. Although in comparison to Mallan I'd say there's mot much in it.

SquashedFrogg
21-11-2019, 09:38 PM
I hear this a lot with Hibs players, I much prefer it when they actually play well watching them than thinking they have more in the locker.

Always thought good players perform when the chips are down.

I never said he was keeping things in his locker? My feeling is most of this team were drained of confidence in a system/style that ultimately didn't work.

Time will tell I guess.

jacomo
21-11-2019, 09:42 PM
Neither are good enough for a team with top four aspirations.


We had top 4 aspirations last season and Mallan was POTY. Ok we fell short at the end but it was within reach.

What’s your point caller?

blackpoolhibs
21-11-2019, 09:48 PM
I never said he was keeping things in his locker? My feeling is most of this team were drained of confidence in a system/style that ultimately didn't work.

Time will tell I guess.

I know you never said that, i'm just fed up with us having a squad of players who need one thing or another before they produce a team performance becoming of the stature of club we are.

Especially when you concider what we did have only 2 seasons ago, we need much more consistancy instead of this boom bust we always seem to have.

BILLYHIBS
21-11-2019, 09:54 PM
It’ll be interesting to see how the rest of the season pans out for both under Jack Ross

Make or break

Credit where credit due some strike by Mallan versus the Hearts

hibbysam
21-11-2019, 09:59 PM
We had top 4 aspirations last season and Mallan was POTY. Ok we fell short at the end but it was within reach.

What’s your point caller?

You surely just answered your own point? He’s been at the heart of our midfield for over a year now and we haven’t really laid a glove on top 4. He got cut a lot of slack last year due to his first 2/3 months where he scored loads. I don’t particularly care if he tackles as such, the issue is when out of possession he’s basically a traffic cone, he doesn’t get tight, he doesn’t work his arse off, he doesn’t affect the play at all out of possession, and he’s not doing enough in possession to warrant being in the team. He’s not a winger, he can’t ‘sit in’ like Dylan could and dictate play, and he isn’t as good as Scott Allan in the hole, so unfortunately for me (unless we drop a striker again and try playing 2 attacking midfielder, which would probably mean finding 3 sitting midfielders) then he should be dropped.

lord bunberry
21-11-2019, 10:05 PM
Mallan is a good player, his problem is he can’t play a deeper role. It’s either him or Allan or Mallan wide. Ross knows him well so hopefully we’ll see the best of him as you can’t have enough good players.

MWHIBBIES
21-11-2019, 10:15 PM
Neither are good enough for a team with top four aspirations.

Stop on.

CRAZYHIBBY
21-11-2019, 10:16 PM
Hibs fans always need a scapegoat or 2.....mallans an excellent player capable of scoring tremendous goals and a shot most premiership players could only dream of...... but hes still *****:confused:

I_Love_Latapy
21-11-2019, 10:38 PM
Fwiw I think Mallan’s been hung out to dry a bit with where he’s being made to play. Think it’s clear his natural position is in behind the striker(s) where there’d be a lot less emphasis on him to put a tackle in.

He’s also unfortunate that Scott Allan is better than him in that position.

When he scores though, he scores.

Agree with this. Mallan's natural home is where Scott Allan plays. Both good players, Scott Allan has the edge on a number of dimensions of his game. It's hard to accommodate two players who are strong with the ball but iffy without it without weakening the team.

Smartie
21-11-2019, 10:42 PM
I actually feel sorry for Mallan. He’s never given us anything less than everything he’s got and has at times been excellent.

Unfortunately he’s been asked to play a role he’s just not equipped for far, far too often under both Lennon and Heckingbottom. Allan’s arrival just made things more difficult for him to establish himself in his best position.

Hibee Mac
21-11-2019, 10:50 PM
You surely just answered your own point? He’s been at the heart of our midfield for over a year now and we haven’t really laid a glove on top 4. He got cut a lot of slack last year due to his first 2/3 months where he scored loads. I don’t particularly care if he tackles as such, the issue is when out of possession he’s basically a traffic cone, he doesn’t get tight, he doesn’t work his arse off, he doesn’t affect the play at all out of possession, and he’s not doing enough in possession to warrant being in the team. He’s not a winger, he can’t ‘sit in’ like Dylan could and dictate play, and he isn’t as good as Scott Allan in the hole, so unfortunately for me (unless we drop a striker again and try playing 2 attacking midfielder, which would probably mean finding 3 sitting midfielders) then he should be dropped.

This is bang on. There is simply nothing tangible to back up the claim that Mallan is anything other than ineffective. We were 8th at the turn of the year last season and managed to scrape top 6 by the end of the season. Now the outright disaster that is the start to this season. When will it click for some?

Our midfield is has been very poor and one constant through all of that is, you guessed it, Mallan.

Marvellous
21-11-2019, 10:55 PM
This is bang on. There is simply nothing tangible to back up the claim that Mallan is anything other than ineffective. We were 8th at the turn of the year last season and managed to scrape top 6 by the end of the season. Now the outright disaster that is the start to this season. When will it click for some?

Our midfield is has been very poor and one constant through all of that is, you guessed it, Mallan.

Are goals tangible?

OxoHibby
21-11-2019, 11:02 PM
Are goals tangible?

Seems not

hibbysam
21-11-2019, 11:07 PM
Are goals tangible?

How many goals has he scored this season? Does this make up for the massive failings in the other side of his game? Like I said his goals in the first couple of months got him out of jail last season, and the fact we were terrible. This year he scores a worldy against Hearts then went missing the rest of the game, which played a part in us losing that game.

Just checked for myself. Mallan has 2 in 19, Allan has 7 in 18 this season. That is his direct competition, he can’t play on the wing and he can’t play as a sitting midfielder. Scott Allan is producing the goods, even when not at his best, and Stevie Mallan has been shoehorned into the side this season and is not providing the goods.

Hibee Mac
21-11-2019, 11:16 PM
Are goals tangible?

I'm talking long term consistent performances, not the odd screamer. There's far more to an effective midfield than that, and the evidence is in our league positions since the start of last season.

There is so much more to a good midfielder than someone who can strike a ball well, I can't help but feel the response of "aye but he scores goals" is short sighted and not looking at the whole picture.

Brooster
21-11-2019, 11:28 PM
Would it be worth playing Mallan up front?

Unseen work
21-11-2019, 11:28 PM
Here we go again.

I still can’t believe the amount of criticism Mallan gets, is he a tough tackling defensive midfielder? No, but that doesn’t mean he’s a bad player.

People always mention his shot but there is far more to him than that. His technique, passing and vision is brilliant and he always offers to get on the ball. He also allows us to quickly change the direction of attack and help stretch teams with his long range pin point passes.

Iv said it before if Scott Allan done some of the stuff Mallan done he would be getting endless amounts of praise and very few would focus on the negatives. In the same scenario Allan gets away with stuff that Mallan would get slaughtered for.

Stevie is also a lot fitter than folk seem to give him credit for, you never see him blowing towards the end of the game and since he’s been with us he’s been available and has played 90 minutes every week.

He gets on the ball, keeps possession really well, great delivery and scores goals. The sort of midfielder a lot of our fans were wanting for years.

Is he a bit weak and poor defensively? Undoubtedly, but he has improved ten fold in this regard since he first came.

If he was at Hearts, Aberdeen or someone else we would be crying that we missed out on him. He's certainly good enough for us imo.

There are a lot of players I would get rid of before even considering punting Mallan.

Centre Hawf
21-11-2019, 11:33 PM
Neither are good enough. Vela I really thought would do well and Mallan I wanted us to sign last summer when he was rumoured to come.

But having seen Mallan for over a year now the guy is just flat out not up to it at this level. I get he scores the odd wonder goal but the fact he is dribbled past the most partnered with our absolutely dreadful defensive record suggests he's a liability not worth having.

Unseen work
21-11-2019, 11:34 PM
Would it be worth playing Mallan up front?

I was having this debate with someone the other day and I think there is an argument for and against it. The issue i would have is that he would drop far too deep imo and also could he find the space up against big centre half’s.

Iv always said if it was up to me I’d be trying to make him play like Kris Commons as their attributes are very similar imo.

I saw a formation Ross played for St Mirren, a 3421 and it made me think could we see Mallan and Allan in the 2 behind the striker. For example

............................Maxwell............... ........

...............Porteous....Jackson....Hanlon...... ...

Naismith........Slivka........Hallberg........Stev enson......

...................Allan.............Mallan.......

.............................Kamberi.........

The only issue I would have is that for me the 2 would need to be able to stretch the game and get in behind the striker, probably more suited to guys like Boyle and Lewis Morgan (played that role at St Mirren) as like I said Mallan and Allan would offer to feet too often and condense the game.

hibbysam
21-11-2019, 11:45 PM
Here we go again.

I still can’t believe the amount of criticism Mallan gets, is he a tough tackling defensive midfielder? No, but that doesn’t mean he’s a bad player.

People always mention his shot but there is far more to him than that. His technique, passing and vision is brilliant and he always offers to get on the ball. He also allows us to quickly change the direction of attack and help stretch teams with his long range pin point passes.

Iv said it before if Scott Allan done some of the stuff Mallan done he would be getting endless amounts of praise and very few would focus on the negatives. In the same scenario Allan gets away with stuff that Mallan would get slaughtered for.

Stevie is also a lot fitter than folk seem to give him credit for, you never see him blowing towards the end of the game and since he’s been with us he’s been available and has played 90 minutes every week.

He gets on the ball, keeps possession really well, great delivery and scores goals. The sort of midfielder a lot of our fans were wanting for years.

Is he a bit weak and poor defensively? Undoubtedly, but he has improved ten fold in this regard since he first came.

If he was at Hearts, Aberdeen or someone else we would be crying that we missed out on him. He's certainly good enough for us imo.

There are a lot of players I would get rid of before even considering punting Mallan.

Am I saying he’s not good enough for hibs? No. Am I saying he shouldn’t be in the team right now? Absolutely.

Is he scoring goals regularly? No. He isn’t blowing out his arse because he doesn’t put a shift in. He’s so passive it’s unbelievable. Yes he can spread the play, he’s good on the ball, absolutely. But we can’t play with 2 strikers, Scott Allan, Stevie Mallan, Two wingers all in the same team. He can’t play deeper as his defensive game is non existent, and to say he’s improved this when stats clearly show he hasn’t (the amount of points we have dropped in games when we take Hallberg off and move Mallan back is incredible) is mental.

I’m happy if Ross can get Mallan into the team where his strengths are shown and we don’t see his weaknesses, but at the moment for me it’s a straight choice between Allan and Mallan begins the strikers and it’s Allan all day for me.

MWHIBBIES
21-11-2019, 11:50 PM
The Mallan scores goals myth is a belter. Allan scores more and is better at everything else. Isn't even close who should be playing CAM. Mallan just offers nothing.

MWHIBBIES
21-11-2019, 11:53 PM
Hibs fans always need a scapegoat or 2.....mallans an excellent player capable of scoring tremendous goals and a shot most premiership players could only dream of...... but hes still *****:confused:

Why is he tremendous? He is capable of scoring goals yes. In reality he has about 4 in 12 months. He does absolutely nothing excellently.

He really has been absolutely honkin this season.

Honestly, it's horrible thing to say because he has recently passed but he reminds me of Liam Miller at Hibs. All fart, no poo.

Shrekko
22-11-2019, 12:00 AM
Am I saying he’s not good enough for hibs? No. Am I saying he shouldn’t be in the team right now? Absolutely.

Is he scoring goals regularly? No. He isn’t blowing out his arse because he doesn’t put a shift in. He’s so passive it’s unbelievable. Yes he can spread the play, he’s good on the ball, absolutely. But we can’t play with 2 strikers, Scott Allan, Stevie Mallan, Two wingers all in the same team. He can’t play deeper as his defensive game is non existent, and to say he’s improved this when stats clearly show he hasn’t (the amount of points we have dropped in games when we take Hallberg off and move Mallan back is incredible) is mental.

I’m happy if Ross can get Mallan into the team where his strengths are shown and we don’t see his weaknesses, but at the moment for me it’s a straight choice between Allan and Mallan begins the strikers and it’s Allan all day for me.

Has Mallan really ever had that role?

I love Scott Allan but he gets a completely free pass on his weaknesses or when he has a quiet game. Yet even when Mallan was involved in about 25 goals last season folk still had to focus on his weaknesses. Allan is (by some margin) our weakest player defensively but never once heard anyone complain about his tackling or whatever.

To say he doesn’t put a shift in is just nonsense. For some reason his face hasn’t fitted with some fans and any criticism has been well OTT.

ian cruise
22-11-2019, 12:11 AM
Just seen a stat on Twitter that both Mallan & Vela are in the top 7 for the most dribbled past midfielders in the league.

One of them’s first the other seventh but unsure what way around.

What were their team mates doing to help them out? No surprise both have played in the deeper defensive role where opposition will be targeting more regularly. On its own it's a misleading stat, we both know Mallan and Vela could have done better so far but there's still 3/4 of a season to go.

Unseen work
22-11-2019, 12:13 AM
Am I saying he’s not good enough for hibs? No. Am I saying he shouldn’t be in the team right now? Absolutely.

Is he scoring goals regularly? No. He isn’t blowing out his arse because he doesn’t put a shift in. He’s so passive it’s unbelievable. Yes he can spread the play, he’s good on the ball, absolutely. But we can’t play with 2 strikers, Scott Allan, Stevie Mallan, Two wingers all in the same team. He can’t play deeper as his defensive game is non existent, and to say he’s improved this when stats clearly show he hasn’t (the amount of points we have dropped in games when we take Hallberg off and move Mallan back is incredible) is mental.

I’m happy if Ross can get Mallan into the team where his strengths are shown and we don’t see his weaknesses, but at the moment for me it’s a straight choice between Allan and Mallan begins the strikers and it’s Allan all day for me.

He scores goals quite often when you consider his position. Last season he finished our top goal scorer.

You can use stats however you want but that doesn’t mean he hasn’t improved his discipline and knowledge of the role. He might not be putting in hundreds of tackles but his reading of the game improved and imo gets in better positions now to intercept and cut the ball out than he did previously.

I’d actually love to see this stat and how the guy has calculated it. From what I can see it’s just one tweet that’s been taken as gospel.

I would choose Allan over him behind the striker but that doesn’t mean he’s a bad player. Move Scotty into a defensive midfielder position and see how he fares, Christ folk were raging when he started right mid against St Johnstone.

Unseen work
22-11-2019, 12:16 AM
The Mallan scores goals myth is a belter. Allan scores more and is better at everything else. Isn't even close who should be playing CAM. Mallan just offers nothing.

Allan has scored more goals this season which includes takes penalties. Compare the two of them goals wise and Mallan blows him out the water.

Delighted Scotty has finally added goals and a direct running style to his game though

lord bunberry
22-11-2019, 12:17 AM
Would it be worth playing Mallan up front?
Not up front, but wide might be an idea, he’s got a great shot on him and he can cross the ball. Him on one side and Boyle on the other side would be good. That obviously opens up the one up front argument.

Shrekko
22-11-2019, 12:28 AM
The Mallan scores goals myth is a belter. Allan scores more and is better at everything else. Isn't even close who should be playing CAM. Mallan just offers nothing.

I think this short post is exhibit A in terms of showing the lengths people go to suit their agenda. Actually calling facts a ‘myth’ is quite incredible.

Mallan will clearly never get a fair crack of the whip from some.

Other players have excuse after excuse made for them and weaknesses overlooked but he’s had folk jumping on him for very little reason at times.

MWHIBBIES
22-11-2019, 01:14 AM
I think this short post is exhibit A in terms of showing the lengths people go to suit their agenda. Actually calling facts a ‘myth’ is quite incredible.

Mallan will clearly never get a fair crack of the whip from some.

Other players have excuse after excuse made for them and weaknesses overlooked but he’s had folk jumping on him for very little reason at times.

How is it a fact though?. He did score goals, he doesn't now. He hasn't for a year now but people just keep saying it. Allan is a far bigger goal threat.

bigwheel
22-11-2019, 06:40 AM
How is it a fact though?. He did score goals, he doesn't now. He hasn't for a year now but people just keep saying it. Allan is a far bigger goal threat.

Allan is this season so far - not known for it though - he would say so himself. Mallan has scored two goals and three assists this season - not sure why you seek to be so (wrongly) definitive .Mallan is neither genius nor useless. He can undoubtedly contribute in the right role, has more than proved this .

sean04
22-11-2019, 06:56 AM
Mallan needs to play further forward. Defensive isn’t his game. Needs to get into the final 3rd and make things happen. Don’t understand why people don’t like him. His delivery is superb. Vela on the other hand doesn’t seem to have the attacking or defensive side. No sure what he offers

BILLYHIBS
22-11-2019, 07:57 AM
SM was outstanding as a DM just under a year ago controlling possession bossing the midfield pinging 40 yard passes almost Dylanesque in a 2-0 victory versus Celtic at Easter Road under Neil Lennon

One swallow however does not make a summer and he has never been able to repeat that outstanding performance in that position

There is no doubt the boy is an enigma and it will be interesting to see how Jack Ross channels his undoubted ability given the success they both enjoyed at St Mirren

Since90+2
22-11-2019, 08:08 AM
How is it a fact though?. He did score goals, he doesn't now. He hasn't for a year now but people just keep saying it. Allan is a far bigger goal threat.

Allan is a bigger goal threat because he plays further forward.

we are hibs
22-11-2019, 08:12 AM
Has Mallan really ever had that role?

I love Scott Allan but he gets a completely free pass on his weaknesses or when he has a quiet game. Yet even when Mallan was involved in about 25 goals last season folk still had to focus on his weaknesses. Allan is (by some margin) our weakest player defensively but never once heard anyone complain about his tackling or whatever.

To say he doesn’t put a shift in is just nonsense. For some reason his face hasn’t fitted with some fans and any criticism has been well OTT.



Scott allan isnt our weakest player defensively. Mallan is.


What a shift he puts in. Most dribbled past midfielder in Scotland 😂 I would hate to see him not putting a shift in if thats him giving everything. When i was at Hampden a few weeks back and seen him play right infront of me it was incredible the amount of times he let runners get away.

Also Scott Allan gets away with more because hes a vastly superior footballer who influences games more than anyone else in the team. If mallan isnt scoring he isnt doing anything. Contrary to what i have seen on here his passing isnt great. Especially under pressure. If hes got time and space he will ping balls out to the winger/ full back all game but as soon as someone comes near him he doesnt know what to do so goes backwards. People like kicking at Kamberi and are claiming this is his 3rd hibs manager so he better start producing consistently and regularly so surely the same applies to Mallan who is also onto his third manager having done little under the previous two.

Since452
22-11-2019, 08:17 AM
Unpopular opinion but i think Mallan is a great player. I don't think he's been played to his strengths this season under Hecky. Scott Allan is different class though and thats Mallan's problem. I just don't feel they fit in the same team. If Ross can do it and make it work I'd be delighted

Marvellous
22-11-2019, 08:27 AM
I'm talking long term consistent performances, not the odd screamer. There's far more to an effective midfield than that, and the evidence is in our league positions since the start of last season.

There is so much more to a good midfielder than someone who can strike a ball well, I can't help but feel the response of "aye but he scores goals" is short sighted and not looking at the whole picture.

It's more than the odd screamer, basically every goal he scores is a screamer. If Mallan shoots from anywhere up to 45 yards out there's a decent chance he's scoring. He's also a decent passer.

The game seems to pass him by when he's playing deep, it seems pretty well agreed on here by now that he's not suited to playing deep. If we play him further forward we will see more of what he's good at and less of what he's not good at (tackling).

gorgie greens
22-11-2019, 08:33 AM
I was having this debate with someone the other day and I think there is an argument for and against it. The issue i would have is that he would drop far too deep imo and also could he find the space up against big centre half’s.

Iv always said if it was up to me I’d be trying to make him play like Kris Commons as their attributes are very similar imo.

I saw a formation Ross played for St Mirren, a 3421 and it made me think could we see Mallan and Allan in the 2 behind the striker. For example

............................Maxwell............... ........

...............Porteous....Jackson....Hanlon...... ...

Naismith........Slivka........Hallberg........Stev enson......

...................Allan.............Mallan.......

.............................Kamberi.........

The only issue I would have is that for me the 2 would need to be able to stretch the game and get in behind the striker, probably more suited to guys like Boyle and Lewis Morgan (played that role at St Mirren) as like I said Mallan and Allan would offer to feet too often and condense the game.

I can't believe you want to revert to a lone striker again, One game we play 2 up front and we score and win easy , Mallan would not even get on the bench for me as he brings nothing to the team .

madhatter
22-11-2019, 08:52 AM
Problem for Mallan is he isn't great playing wide and isn't great playing in the middle. If you pushed him further forward you'd be weighing up Mallan and Allan and that's a fairly easy decision most weeks.

Only way I see him getting in the team at the moment is to shift to a back 3. We cannot afford to drop more mobile and athletic midfielders.

I think what Ross does tomorrow against Motherwell will tell us something - if Mallan is in then it is likely due to him having worked with him before as the last time we played Motherwell Mallan was destroyed in midfield. Ran past so many times.

madhatter
22-11-2019, 08:56 AM
It's more than the odd screamer, basically every goal he scores is a screamer. If Mallan shoots from anywhere up to 45 yards out there's a decent chance he's scoring. He's also a decent passer.

The game seems to pass him by when he's playing deep, it seems pretty well agreed on here by now that he's not suited to playing deep. If we play him further forward we will see more of what he's good at and less of what he's not good at (tackling).

I think we all agree on this. Problem is how do you get him in the team. I just dont see how we can get him in without damaging the team overall.

CRAZYHIBBY
22-11-2019, 09:03 AM
Why is he tremendous? He is capable of scoring goals yes. In reality he has about 4 in 12 months. He does absolutely nothing excellently.

He really has been absolutely honkin this season.

Honestly, it's horrible thing to say because he has recently passed but he reminds me of Liam Miller at Hibs. All fart, no poo.

Ye didnae read ma post did ye......i said capable of scoring tremendous goals....which he is.

J-C
22-11-2019, 09:34 AM
You might want to think why Mallan let's his man go past him during games, maybe he was told to do that by Heckingbottom to keep the shape of the team. I've noticed Vela do the same thing, I've also seen Mallan get stuck in while playing under Lennon. Let's give Ross a chance to work with these guys before we put them down, maybe new tactics and instructions is all that's needed.

Greenbeard
22-11-2019, 09:50 AM
Agree with this. Mallan's natural home is where Scott Allan plays. Both good players, Scott Allan has the edge on a number of dimensions of his game. It's hard to accommodate two players who are strong with the ball but iffy without it without weakening the team.
Aye, quite a few folk on here said when it was known Allan was coming back that he and Mallan couldn't be accommodated in the same team. I had hoped they could, but now tend to agree.
Will JR favour Mallan given he knows him well and thinks he can get him back to top form?
Will he rotate them - one week Allan starts and gets 70-75mins with Mallan coming on, next week vice-versa (depending on oppo and how games pan out)?
If one has to be off-loaded, who? I can just imagine Mallan leaving and then becoming a smash hit somewhere else if played where he plays best.

Since452
22-11-2019, 10:02 AM
You might want to think why Mallan let's his man go past him during games, maybe he was told to do that by Heckingbottom to keep the shape of the team. I've noticed Vela do the same thing, I've also seen Mallan get stuck in while playing under Lennon. Let's give Ross a chance to work with these guys before we put them down, maybe new tactics and instructions is all that's needed.

Or maybe less tactics and instructions if the Hecky rumours were true. Just let them play. Wouldn't surprise me if Vela turned out to be really good under Ross.

The Leith Dutch
22-11-2019, 10:04 AM
You might want to think why Mallan let's his man go past him during games, maybe he was told to do that by Heckingbottom to keep the shape of the team. I've noticed Vela do the same thing, I've also seen Mallan get stuck in while playing under Lennon. Let's give Ross a chance to work with these guys before we put them down, maybe new tactics and instructions is all that's needed.

I've consistently been of the opinion that you can't play Allan and Mallan in the same team but 100% agree - JR should manage in his way and we re-evaluate all the players from scratch.

One of my major gripes with PH was he seemed to pick from a small selection of formations that were often a little fiddly in terms of expectations on the players positionally and he was going to stick to them regardless of the players he had at his disposal. If you look at the way say Klopp plays at Liverpool or Guardiola played with Barca then that way of playing the game looks great but it does require a certain level of player to pull it off.

You can't just decide to play Tiki-taka if half your players couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo in terms of their passing ability.

Hibiza
22-11-2019, 10:52 AM
Get rid of both imo.

Spot on

BILLYHIBS
22-11-2019, 11:03 AM
Spot on
:agree:

Saw Hermits post and was my first reaction too

Their fate is in their own hands

MWHIBBIES
22-11-2019, 11:19 AM
Allan is a bigger goal threat because he plays further forward.

And he's much better.

I'd rather Mallan contributed zero goals, zero assists and actually kept the ball, moved it forward, was always available for it, could pass it more than the direction he's facing, could drive with it etc.

He is so, so limited. Watch his general play and ignore the occasional screamer. He offers nothing.

JohnM1875
22-11-2019, 11:22 AM
And he's much better.

I'd rather Mallan contributed zero goals, zero assists and actually kept the ball, moved it forward, was always available for it, could pass it more than the direction he's facing, could drive with it etc.

He is so, so limited. Watch his general play and ignore the occasional screamer. He offers nothing.

Totally agree. Which is a real shame cause I really like him as a person. Always comes across really well in interviews and was brilliant the one time I met him.

Obviously hoping JR can get the best out of him again. Just can't see how.

ian cruise
22-11-2019, 01:52 PM
I really can't imagine Ross, or any experienced manager, dropping Scott Allan in the form he is in currently for another player just because he knows him/has worked with him before. Sure if SA form has a dip but why would Ross risk his start to a new job where he could do with a good run on a gamble like that?

Folk are worrying over nothing.

Lago
22-11-2019, 03:07 PM
Just seen a stat on Twitter that both Mallan & Vela are in the top 7 for the most dribbled past midfielders in the league.

One of them’s first the other seventh but unsure what way around.
What a silly stat!

Heisenberg
22-11-2019, 03:08 PM
What a silly stat!

Tom James is the most dribbled past fullback in the league. Basically confirms some of our players can’t tackle.

Vault Boy
22-11-2019, 03:12 PM
Tom James is the most dribbled past fullback in the league. Basically confirms some of our players can’t tackle.

Big Daz was the most dribbled past CB last season IIRC. Made up for it by being one of the best in aerial duals & shots blocked.

Speedway
22-11-2019, 03:29 PM
What’s the betting Vela and Mallan start in place of Hallberg and Allan tomorrow?

Diclonius
22-11-2019, 03:31 PM
What’s the betting Vela and Mallan start in place of Hallberg and Allan tomorrow?

https://i.imgur.com/tBUDRRs.png

MWHIBBIES
22-11-2019, 03:41 PM
What’s the betting Vela and Mallan start in place of Hallberg and Allan tomorrow?

Zero, cant think of a single reason he would do that.

Fergus52
22-11-2019, 03:54 PM
He scores goals quite often when you consider his position. Last season he finished our top goal scorer.

You can use stats however you want but that doesn’t mean he hasn’t improved his discipline and knowledge of the role. He might not be putting in hundreds of tackles but his reading of the game improved and imo gets in better positions now to intercept and cut the ball out than he did previously.

I’d actually love to see this stat and how the guy has calculated it. From what I can see it’s just one tweet that’s been taken as gospel.

I would choose Allan over him behind the striker but that doesn’t mean he’s a bad player. Move Scotty into a defensive midfielder position and see how he fares, Christ folk were raging when he started right mid against St Johnstone.

tbf, the guy who runs that twitter account has access to the full shabang in terms of spl stats and metrics, he used to do the player radars a couple of seasons back that were great for assessing the more underlying aspects of players performances that go beyond the eye test.

LaMotta
22-11-2019, 04:40 PM
Some really well balanced and well thought out posts on here pointing out Mallan's strengths and weaknesses.

Anyone who claims Mallan offers nothing in a Hibs jersey just shouldn't bother wasting their time watching games though - its totally untrue, very unfair and highly exaggerated nonsense.

Since452
22-11-2019, 04:42 PM
Some really well balanced and well thought out posts on here pointing out Mallan's strengths and weaknesses.

Anyone who claims Mallan offers nothing in a Hibs jersey just shouldn't bother wasting their time watching games though - its totally untrue, very unfair and highly exaggerated nonsense.

I agree. He's a terrific player. Ross got the best out of him so hopefully he does again

HibbyAndy
22-11-2019, 05:01 PM
Some really well balanced and well thought out posts on here pointing out Mallan's strengths and weaknesses.

Anyone who claims Mallan offers nothing in a Hibs jersey just shouldn't bother wasting their time watching games though - its totally untrue, very unfair and highly exaggerated nonsense.

:top marks

Sammy7nil
22-11-2019, 07:36 PM
You might want to think why Mallan let's his man go past him during games, maybe he was told to do that by Heckingbottom to keep the shape of the team. I've noticed Vela do the same thing, I've also seen Mallan get stuck in while playing under Lennon. Let's give Ross a chance to work with these guys before we put them down, maybe new tactics and instructions is all that's needed.

I know every fan is now a wanna be coach but I really don't understand why any player would let the opposition skip past him with the ball to keep the team shape. Some people forget the ball is the most important thing in the game :wink:

MWHIBBIES
22-11-2019, 08:20 PM
Some really well balanced and well thought out posts on here pointing out Mallan's strengths and weaknesses.

Anyone who claims Mallan offers nothing in a Hibs jersey just shouldn't bother wasting their time watching games though - its totally untrue, very unfair and highly exaggerated nonsense.

He does offer nothing unless he's scoring. I'll continue to go to every game, cheers.

ahibby
22-11-2019, 08:57 PM
Spot on

Yep

ahibby
22-11-2019, 09:00 PM
Ye didnae read ma post did ye......i said capable of scoring tremendous goals....which he is.

Jist not capable of being in a winning Hibs side it seems

J-C
22-11-2019, 09:05 PM
I know every fan is now a wanna be coach but I really don't understand why any player would let the opposition skip past him with the ball to keep the team shape. Some people forget the ball is the most important thing in the game :wink:

I know what you're saying but just trying to work out why, under Lennon Mallan did get stuck in more.

bigwheel
22-11-2019, 09:10 PM
He does offer nothing unless he's scoring. I'll continue to go to every game, cheers.


Its clear you don't rate the guy...you have zero balance to your views...

This season so far Mallan has made the second most passes in our team (over 1000)..only Paul Hanlon has made more..Mallan's pass completion rate sits at 79%....

In comparison Scott Allan has made circa 720. with a pass completion rate of 72 percent...now you have made up your mind , so won't make any difference..doesn't mean Mallan has been better than Allan, he hasn't..but it completely dismisses your "does nothing unless he scores" view...

ahibby
22-11-2019, 09:46 PM
Its clear you don't rate the guy...you have zero balance to your views...

This season so far Mallan has made the second most passes in our team (over 1000)..only Paul Hanlon has made more..Mallan's pass completion rate sits at 79%....

In comparison Scott Allan has made circa 720. with a pass completion rate of 72 percent...now you have made up your mind , so won't make any difference..doesn't mean Mallan has been better than Allan, he hasn't..but it completely dismisses your "does nothing unless he scores" view...

The weakness is in stopping the opposition. If he isnt helping us to win games those stats are pointless. Think when was the last time he contributed to a win.

bigwheel
22-11-2019, 09:54 PM
The weakness is in stopping the opposition. If he isnt helping us to win games those stats are pointless. Think when was the last time he contributed to a win.

We’ve only won 2 games in the league. You could say that about any of them. He’s had 2 goals and 2 assist already this season. Will be easily in the middle of the pack with those stats

I’m not saying Mallan has been good enough this season ...but this “contributes nothing “ view is so unbalanced it deserves to be challenged

ahibby
22-11-2019, 10:05 PM
We’ve only won 2 games in the league. You could say that about any of them. He’s had 2 goals and 2 assist already this season. Will be easily in the middle of the pack with those stats

I’m not saying Mallan has been good enough this season ...but this “contributes nothing “ view is so unbalanced it deserves to be challenged

But until he contributes to a win others preferred thats all i am saying. We have seen a side capable of playng well and winning he might have to wait for a chance to show he can.

bigwheel
22-11-2019, 10:12 PM
But until he contributes to a win others preferred thats all i am saying. We have seen a side capable of playng well and winning he might have to wait for a chance to show he can.

[emoji106]. Id agree with that..I’m not saying he currently should be starting ..just pushing back in the “useless” nonsense that’s in this thread ...

Onceinawhile
22-11-2019, 10:17 PM
Its clear you don't rate the guy...you have zero balance to your views...

This season so far Mallan has made the second most passes in our team (over 1000)..only Paul Hanlon has made more..Mallan's pass completion rate sits at 79%....

In comparison Scott Allan has made circa 720. with a pass completion rate of 72 percent...now you have made up your mind , so won't make any difference..doesn't mean Mallan has been better than Allan, he hasn't..but it completely dismisses your "does nothing unless he scores" view...

Both those pass percentages are awful.

At least Scott allan makes passes in dangerous areas that are more likely to get cut out.

MWHIBBIES
22-11-2019, 10:32 PM
Its clear you don't rate the guy...you have zero balance to your views...

This season so far Mallan has made the second most passes in our team (over 1000)..only Paul Hanlon has made more..Mallan's pass completion rate sits at 79%....

In comparison Scott Allan has made circa 720. with a pass completion rate of 72 percent...now you have made up your mind , so won't make any difference..doesn't mean Mallan has been better than Allan, he hasn't..but it completely dismisses your "does nothing unless he scores" view...

Interesting stat actually. Tells me he makes a lot of conservative, easy passes though. He rarely makes a defence splitting pass at all. I just don't see it mate. Hes been immune to being dropped for nearly 18 months now. He just doesn't give anything like enough. Slivka is easily better.

bigwheel
22-11-2019, 10:35 PM
Interesting stat actually. Tells me he makes a lot of conservative, easy passes though. He rarely makes a defence splitting pass at all. I just don't see it mate. Hes been immune to being dropped for nearly 18 months now. He just doesn't give anything like enough. Slivka is easily better.

Ooof. That last statement. ..Slivka is another “nearly player”...has all the tools, but rarely makes an impact when he starts games ....will never be a regular starter for us

Mallan will benefit from some time Out of the starting eleven ...

Ps. Interestingly he only made 1500 in the whole of last season , already way above that rate .....

bigwheel
22-11-2019, 10:37 PM
Both those pass percentages are awful.

At least Scott allan makes passes in dangerous areas that are more likely to get cut out.

About 5th in our regular players ....anything 80 or above is good in our league ..Malians stats are decent ...particularly in relation to how often he has the ball

Hibee Mac
22-11-2019, 11:17 PM
I think people can get a bit carried away with stats sometimes without looking at the bigger picture. When was the last time you came away from a game thinking, wow Mallan really played well today or thinking he played a big part in us getting that win. For me I think it might be Celtic at home last season and that's all I can think of right now.

This season alone I have come away from games thinking the above about Hallberg, Kamberi, James, Porteous, Maxwell, Allan, even Doidge. He's just not doing the business for us and should not be starting, I don't see where he fits in this team.