Bernardo Silva - racist?

[easty]

Bernardo Silva tries to have a joke with his friend - £50k fine

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49193532


Millwall fans are actual racist **** - only a £40k fine

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49193532


Suarez was fined £40k for racially abusing Evra a few years back.

It seems harsh on Silva to me, who was perhaps stupid but not being racist.

[Aim Here]

Bernardo Silva tries to have a joke with his friend - £50k fine

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49193532


Millwall fans are actual racist **** - only a £40k fine

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49193532


Suarez was fined £40k for racially abusing Evra a few years back.

It seems harsh on Silva to me, who was perhaps stupid but not being racist.

The difference between £40k and £50k is perhaps just football player wage inflation over the course of eight years and with Millwall, the fine reflects the relative culpability, in that Millwall FC weren't the ones being racist, they just weren't handling their racist fan problem properly.

And Silva's joke was a pretty awful thing to put in public (as is the packaging of the sweets, whose name translates as 'Little Congans', if anyone's in doubt that the crude caricature on the front is meant to be of a black person).

He might have gotten away with it in a private communication, if Mendy didn't take offence. When you rip it of that sort of context - which you do when it's just a single comment blurted out to the entire world over a social media feed, it becomes Silva harassing a black person by saying 'Isn't it funny you look like this racist cartoon, because you're black?'. And that sort of behaviour does translate to young people taking it as a license for them to be racist too. Even screenings of well intentioned TV shows showing racism - like the Alf Garnett TV sitcoms, for example - were routinely dreaded by actual black British people, because Garnett's actions were a handy template for kids and racist idiots to copy the next day, and that's where you had skilled, experienced writers sending up and denouncing the racism of their characters; with Silva, there's no such filter on what he said, other than the public outcry and any team/FA punishments.

Don't think it's harsh at all; this is just something like week's wages as punishment for him stinking up the internet in a way that's likely to cause a bunch of harm to people, and bring football and/or Man City into disrepute.

[Vault Boy]

Silva was absolutely daft thinking that was an acceptable joke to make publically. Mendy might be absolutely fine with it, but I'll bet a lot of Silva's followers weren't.

It's a racist joke. That doesn't mean he's a racist and I don't think that's evidence that he is btw.

The Suarez incident was interesting because he claimed it was basically a cultural/language issue. He's not wrong, the word he said is commonly used in much of South America and doesn't hold the same gravity there, but I personally think he was fully aware of what English speaking nations think of that word. The man clearly had/has issues.

[neil7908]

Bernardo Silva tries to have a joke with his friend - £50k fine

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49193532


Millwall fans are actual racist **** - only a £40k fine

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49193532


Suarez was fined £40k for racially abusing Evra a few years back.

It seems harsh on Silva to me, who was perhaps stupid but not being racist.

I'm not sure ignorance (or stupidity) can be an excuse anymore.

If this was just a personal joke between friends then he should have understood it stayed that way. Putting something like that online is madness and shows total ignorance on what is acceptable.

If anything I think he got off lightly. If I posted that on a colleagues Facebook page and HR found out I'd be getting sacked. I'm not saying that should happen here but this is barely a punishment. I also haven't been overly impressed with the how City or Pep have handled this.

It's easy to be anti racism when it's not your club or players being implicated. Both City here and Liverpool with Suarez showed how football continues to matter more than dealing with racism.

[lyonhibs]

Is Silva some intractable racist holding poisonous, discriminatory racist views? I don't think so.

Does he have a decidedly outdated sense of humour allied to a high degree of stupidity to share this "joke with a mate" publicly, quite clearly yes. I'm not one for insisting on footballers as "role models" in general, but he needs to be a bit more aware of his context and the era we're living in and can't be sharing that sort of crap publicly.

[Sir David Gray]

The subject of the joke has said he was fine with it and that should have been the end of the matter.

However, unfortunately we now live in a world where people get offended on behalf of other people and Silva should have been aware of that before posting that tweet. He's been guilty of being naive, nothing more really.

I know the punishments have been handed out by two different organisations but it's quite pathetic that Silva gets a 1 match ban and a fine of £50,000 for a joke with a team mate and yet the Bulgarian FA gets fined less than £65,000 for the disgraceful scenes last month during their game with England.

Silva's been treated pretty unfairly in my view.

[Andy74]

I think it is unhelpful to treat this kind of thing as racist.

If they are saying that you specifically can’t make lookalike type jokes against black people is that not treating them differently? Which is actually then racist.

I took this in the same way as a team mate might have posted a pic of Simon Murray with a ginger kid or John McGinn with a meatball.

[Aim Here]

I think it is unhelpful to treat this kind of thing as racist.

If they are saying that you specifically can’t make lookalike type jokes against black people is that not treating them differently? Which is actually then racist.

I took this in the same way as a team mate might have posted a pic of Simon Murray with a ginger kid or John McGinn with a meatball.

It's not the same thing at all. With the two examples you're using, the point is that an individual white person happens to look like someone or something else, based on their individual features. To get a fair point of comparison, you'd have to compare one of them to a racist caricature mocking white people's appearance, and I'm not sure there even is such a thing.

With Silva's 'joke', the joke was based purely about how Mendy resembled a racist character because he was black, and the only 'resemblance' was the racial characteristics being caricatured - the 'Conguitos' character is nothing but racial stereotype. It's not a problem if a resemblance is pointed out between an individual black person and something that genuinely looks like that person, and isn't merely lampooning their racial characteristics.

[LancsHibs]

It's not the same thing at all. With the two examples you're using, the point is that an individual white person happens to look like someone or something else, based on their individual features. To get a fair point of comparison, you'd have to compare one of them to a racist caricature mocking white people's appearance, and I'm not sure there even is such a thing.

With Silva's 'joke', the joke was based purely about how Mendy resembled a racist character because he was black, and the only 'resemblance' was the racial characteristics being caricatured - the 'Conguitos' character is nothing but racial stereotype. It's not a problem if a resemblance is pointed out between an individual black person and something that genuinely looks like that person, and isn't merely lampooning their racial characteristics.

No it wasn’t

[Andy74]

It's not the same thing at all. With the two examples you're using, the point is that an individual white person happens to look like someone or something else, based on their individual features. To get a fair point of comparison, you'd have to compare one of them to a racist caricature mocking white people's appearance, and I'm not sure there even is such a thing.

With Silva's 'joke', the joke was based purely about how Mendy resembled a racist character because he was black, and the only 'resemblance' was the racial characteristics being caricatured - the 'Conguitos' character is nothing but racial stereotype. It's not a problem if a resemblance is pointed out between an individual black person and something that genuinely looks like that person, and isn't merely lampooning their racial characteristics.

I think that is reading much more into it than was there. It was because he thinks Mendy looks like the picture.

[ScottB]

If you want to have a private dodgy joke with a mate, there are a number of private ways to do it. Sending it out on Twitter isn't one of them.

Ultimately, as someone in the public eye, it doesn't really matter if both guys were cool with the situation, it doesn't set a good example for all the idiots out there. While I can accept this might be a 'thing' the two of them have as friends, and that's their business if so, it was pretty stupid to do it in public.

[Aim Here]

I think that is reading much more into it than was there. It was because he thinks Mendy looks like the picture.

What is it about Mendy that looks like the character, exactly? There's nothing about that character that isn't an exaggeration of racial characteristics. If you can see some point of comparison that isn't just 'he looks like this because he's a black guy', then I reckon you're the one seeing stuff that isn't there.

Sure, I'm agreed with everyone that I don't think Silva is any kind of hateful racist, but he's surely a tone-deaf idiot for posting what he did in public.

[jacomo]

The difference between £40k and £50k is perhaps just football player wage inflation over the course of eight years and with Millwall, the fine reflects the relative culpability, in that Millwall FC weren't the ones being racist, they just weren't handling their racist fan problem properly.

And Silva's joke was a pretty awful thing to put in public (as is the packaging of the sweets, whose name translates as 'Little Congans', if anyone's in doubt that the crude caricature on the front is meant to be of a black person).

He might have gotten away with it in a private communication, if Mendy didn't take offence. When you rip it of that sort of context - which you do when it's just a single comment blurted out to the entire world over a social media feed, it becomes Silva harassing a black person by saying 'Isn't it funny you look like this racist cartoon, because you're black?'. And that sort of behaviour does translate to young people taking it as a license for them to be racist too. Even screenings of well intentioned TV shows showing racism - like the Alf Garnett TV sitcoms, for example - were routinely dreaded by actual black British people, because Garnett's actions were a handy template for kids and racist idiots to copy the next day, and that's where you had skilled, experienced writers sending up and denouncing the racism of their characters; with Silva, there's no such filter on what he said, other than the public outcry and any team/FA punishments.

Don't think it's harsh at all; this is just something like week's wages as punishment for him stinking up the internet in a way that's likely to cause a bunch of harm to people, and bring football and/or Man City into disrepute.


You make some good points here.

My initial reaction is that the fine looks disproportionate compared to others handed out, but Silva has a responsibility whether he likes or not.

[easty]

It's not the same thing at all. With the two examples you're using, the point is that an individual white person happens to look like someone or something else, based on their individual features. To get a fair point of comparison, you'd have to compare one of them to a racist caricature mocking white people's appearance, and I'm not sure there even is such a thing.

With Silva's 'joke', the joke was based purely about how Mendy resembled a racist character because he was black, and the only 'resemblance' was the racial characteristics being caricatured - the 'Conguitos' character is nothing but racial stereotype. It's not a problem if a resemblance is pointed out between an individual black person and something that genuinely looks like that person, and isn't merely lampooning their racial characteristics.

I think in the picture Silva tweeted, where Mendy is a wee boy, he does look a bit like the Conguitos guy.

He’s not saying all black people look the same, he’s not saying all black people look like that Conguitas guy..he was comparing a photo of Mendy as a boy to the guy on the packet.

[Newry Hibs]

John Barnes was on five live saying that he didn't think any of it was racist.

He was saying that it is time to stop thinking of black people with dark skin and thick lips as a negative image. His point was that there are black people with those characteristics and shouldn't be made to feel 'inhuman'.

[Roxyhibee]

I think it is unhelpful to treat this kind of thing as racist.

If they are saying that you specifically can’t make lookalike type jokes against black people is that not treating them differently? Which is actually then racist.

I took this in the same way as a team mate might have posted a pic of Simon Murray with a ginger kid or John McGinn with a meatball.

Not the same at all. Not even close.

[Andy74]

Not the same at all. Not even close.

Actually it is. Exactly the same.

[Roxyhibee]

Actually it is. Exactly the same.

Nope. Definitely definitely not the same. You’re struggling here and I’m not going to try and debate / explain why it isn’t to you.

[blackpoolhibs]

i've not seen the picture of the guy Mendy is supposed to look like, but i have every faith Silva thought he looked like it and that's all he meant.

It appears now we can say gingers look like Ed Sheeran and other white folk look like certain things because there could be the slightest resemblance, but you cant say anyone who's colour is not white resembles anything or anyone for fear of being cast as a racist.

:confused:

[Andy74]

Nope. Definitely definitely not the same. You’re struggling here and I’m not going to try and debate / explain why it isn’t to you.

I’m not struggling at all thanks.

If there are deeper historical issues with the original image I understand that and that should be taken up with the company that used the cartoon.

What Silva did was suggest a young Mendy looked like a cartoon picture. Nothing more or less than that.

[easty]

i've not seen the picture of the guy Mendy is supposed to look like, but i have every faith Silva thought he looked like it and that's all he meant.

It appears now we can say gingers look like Ed Sheeran and other white folk look like certain things because there could be the slightest resemblance, but you cant say anyone who's colour is not white resembles anything or anyone for fear of being cast as a racist.

:confused:

If you google “Bernardo Silva tweet” you’ll see it.

[Pretty Boy]

A cursory glance at the history of the Conguitos logo should have been enough to suggest this was a joke best kept private, or left unsaid altogether.

It wasn't that long ago it showed a character with an African style drum holding a spear. That's racist imagery by any definition. The fact the company saw fit to change it suggests they feel/felt the same.

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

The subject of the joke has said he was fine with it and that should have been the end of the matter.

However, unfortunately we now live in a world where people get offended on behalf of other people and Silva should have been aware of that before posting that tweet. He's been guilty of being naive, nothing more really.

I know the punishments have been handed out by two different organisations but it's quite pathetic that Silva gets a 1 match ban and a fine of £50,000 for a joke with a team mate and yet the Bulgarian FA gets fined less than £65,000 for the disgraceful scenes last month during their game with England.

Silva's been treated pretty unfairly in my view.

Disagree with your first paragraph. Just because one black guy doesn’t find it offensive doesn’t mean it’s not offensive to the other billion plus black people in the world. Share something like that publicly when you’ve got hundreds of thousands of black followers and you should expect some of them to take offence.

[Callum_62]

How much was was Boris Johnson fined?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[jacomo]

i've not seen the picture of the guy Mendy is supposed to look like, but i have every faith Silva thought he looked like it and that's all he meant.

It appears now we can say gingers look like Ed Sheeran and other white folk look like certain things because there could be the slightest resemblance, but you cant say anyone who's colour is not white resembles anything or anyone for fear of being cast as a racist.

:confused:


It’s ok. We realise you are finding the 21st century confusing.

There are some really thoughtful points raised on this thread which put this in context. Maybe read them first?

[Sir David Gray]

Disagree with your first paragraph. Just because one black guy doesn’t find it offensive doesn’t mean it’s not offensive to the other billion plus black people in the world. Share something like that publicly when you’ve got hundreds of thousands of black followers and you should expect some of them to take offence.

The subject of the joke was one individual, Benjamin Mendy. It wasn't something that was likening all black people to this character.

Mendy has not taken any offence, has apparently taken it as a joke and has sent a letter in support of Silva to the FA hearing.

That really ought to have been the end of it.

I am in a wheelchair and if one of my close friends was to send me a photo of Lou and Andy from Little Britain (or something similar) and say that it reminded them of me in some way and I found that humorous, why should anyone take offence on my behalf? Do I not get a say in whether a friend is allowed to have a little harmless fun at my expense?

This is all about context, Silva's tweet is not something I would say should be sent to a complete stranger due to the sensitive nature of the issue but when you're sending it to a close friend, who you know will find it funny, then I don't see that it's anyone else's business.

As I said, Silva ought to have known how such a tweet would be received and shouldn't have gone there but that doesn't, in itself, make it racist.

[blackpoolhibs]

It’s ok. We realise you are finding the 21st century confusing.

There are some really thoughtful points raised on this thread which put this in context. Maybe read them first?

I'm quite happy being stuck in the past over some things.

[PH91]

I’m not struggling at all thanks.

If there are deeper historical issues with the original image I understand that and that should be taken up with the company that used the cartoon.

What Silva did was suggest a young Mendy looked like a cartoon picture. Nothing more or less than that.

Spot on.

[Sammy7nil]

It’s ok. We realise you are finding the 21st century confusing.

There are some really thoughtful points raised on this thread which put this in context. Maybe read them first?

Dear oh dear :rolleyes:

[danhibees1875]

If you have hundreds of thousands of followers and you post something publicly to someone with that many followers then you have a bit more duty of care than just hiding behind "aye, but he thinks it's funny". These guys know they're in the public eye and that what they do will be highlighted and mimicked and should be mindful of that when they put things out to the public eye.

There's no similarities in the tweet in question. There's an over the top stereotype cartoon that was symptomatic of widespread oppression of people based on their skin colour and that's being compared to someone, because he's black.
Overlooking the history of oppression and belittling of black people that these sort of caricatures perpetuate to compare it with similarities drawn between ginger people and carrots etc doesn't really wash IMO.

[PH91]

If you have hundreds of thousands of followers and you post something publicly to someone with that many followers then you have a bit more duty of care than just hiding behind "aye, but he thinks it's funny". These guys know they're in the public eye and that what they do will be highlighted and mimicked and should be mindful of that when they put things out to the public eye.

There's no similarities in the tweet in question. There's an over the top stereotype cartoon that was symptomatic of widespread oppression of people based on their skin colour and that's being compared to someone, because he's black.
Overlooking the history of oppression and belittling of black people that these sort of caricatures perpetuate to compare it with similarities drawn between ginger people and carrots etc doesn't really wash IMO.

Silva compared Mendy to the cartoon because they look similar not "because he's black" as you note above.

He can be accused of being naive in posting a picture of that particular cartoon but certainly not of being racist.

[danhibees1875]

Silva compared Mendy to the cartoon because they look similar not "because he's black" as you note above.

He can be accused of being naive in posting a picture of that particular cartoon but certainly not of being racist.

They don't though. That's the point.

I'm not accusing him of being racist. Although you're maybe just making a general point there - rather than replying to me.

[PH91]

They don't though. That's the point.

I'm not accusing him of being racist. Although you're maybe just making a general point there - rather than replying to me.

If I have interlreted your post correctly you suggested that Silva compared the photo to the cartoon simply "because he's black" which is accusing him of being racist. He actually compared a specific photograph of his friend because they look similar. You note that you don't believe they look similar but I disagree.

[easty]

They don't though. That's the point.

I'm not accusing him of being racist. Although you're maybe just making a general point there - rather than replying to me.

They don’t what? Look similar? They absolutely do. Have you even seen the tweet, or just jumped on the “kick out this racism” bandwagon?

[danhibees1875]

If I have interlreted your post correctly you suggested that Silva compared the photo to the cartoon simply "because he's black" which is accusing him of being racist. He actually compared a specific photograph of his friend because they look similar. You note that you don't believe they look similar but I disagree.

Doing so wouldn't make him racist I wouldn't say. It's an inappropriate comment to have made and to send it out to the general public. But it doesn't mean he's a racist person.


They don’t what? Look similar? They absolutely do. Have you even seen the tweet, or just jumped on the “kick out this racism” bandwagon?

Maybe I've seen the wrong one then. The one I've seen compares Mendy to a cartoon drawing with a wide misshapen head, accentuated jaw, massive red lips, and large eyes that looks nothing like Mendy.

[Beefster]

I am in a wheelchair and if one of my close friends was to send me a photo of Lou and Andy from Little Britain (or something similar) and say that it reminded them of me in some way and I found that humorous, why should anyone take offence on my behalf?

If Andy from Little Britain was a long-term stereotype that implied that everyone in a wheelchair was a fat, slovenly simpleton and had been used to homogenise all wheelchair users for bigots then I’d be surprised if you didn’t have a different view. Even if you didn’t, I’m pretty sure that loads of folk would find it very offensive.

[Sir David Gray]

If Andy from Little Britain was a long-term stereotype that implied that everyone in a wheelchair was a fat, slovenly simpleton and had been used to homogenise all wheelchair users for bigots then I’d be surprised if you didn’t have a different view. Even if you didn’t, I’m pretty sure that loads of folk would find it very offensive.

If it was something that was aimed at me then I would prefer if I got the chance to decide if I found it funny or not before anyone else decided to get offended on my behalf.

[jacomo]

If it was something that was aimed at me then I would prefer if I got the chance to decide if I found it funny or not before anyone else decided to get offended on my behalf.


Sure. But this wasn’t a private joke between friends, Silva broadcast it to the world via his social media. That was his mistake.

[Sir David Gray]

Sure. But this wasn’t a private joke between friends, Silva broadcast it to the world via his social media. That was his mistake.

I've already said he was naive in posting such a joke on social media. That doesn't necessarily mean that he's racist or what he did was racist though.

I still don't think he's been dealt with fairly.

[jacomo]

I've already said he was naive in posting such a joke on social media. That doesn't necessarily mean that he's racist or what he did was racist though.

I still don't think he's been dealt with fairly.


That is a fair opinion and you are entitled to it. But I’m not sure anyone is accusing Silva of being racist.

[SlickShoes]

I've already said he was naive in posting such a joke on social media. That doesn't necessarily mean that he's racist or what he did was racist though.

I still don't think he's been dealt with fairly.

The load of black people that found it racist are probably the ones that would decide that. There's plenty of them out there if you want to look, or you can just keep hammering on about how you as a Scottish white person don't find it racist.

[Barman Stanton]

The load of black people that found it racist are probably the ones that would decide that. There's plenty of them out there if you want to look, or you can just keep hammering on about how you as a Scottish white person don't find it racist.

And yet most black people I saw on twitter were defending him saying it wasnt racist at all. It looks like the people that were mostly offended are white.

[CockneyRebel]

I am an old fart of 73 and have lived through enormous changes of attitude and perception regarding sexual preferences/race ,colour/religion etc. and if I have learned anything it has to be that you can sometimes swing the pendulum too far when tackling perceived discrimination. I do not wish to over simplify any situations/incidents but sometimes common sense goes out of the window and point scoring takes over. What I try to do is to look at a particular incident and, where possible, reverse the action (white to black/protestant to catholic etc.) and without a knee jerk reaction consider how it looks/feels to me. I have seen many fairly innocuous occurrences turned into vitriolic and hate filled agendas. Personally, I feel able to distinguish for myself where any real harm is being done and I act or react accordingly without pretending to own the moral high ground, just an opinion. Some folk are never happy without a supposed cause to champion or demonise (I include those for and those against any perceived misdemeanour). For many of us there are topics we will never agree on no matter how often they are discussed/debated so we should be wary of over analysis and stick to giving ones opinion whilst refraining from pushing said opinions down unsympathetic throats.

[SlickShoes]

And yet most black people I saw on twitter were defending him saying it wasnt racist at all. It looks like the people that were mostly offended are white.

Well that's it settled then.......you better tell those that were offended that they have no right to be because some people weren't offended.

Remember there is no grey area, you can't have some people offended by something and some not, that is IMPOSSIBLE.

Here is a black ex-pro footballer explaining why it's wrong: https://www.facebook.com/ESPNUK/videos/460457871261460/

[Barman Stanton]

Well that's it settled then.......

You have missed my point. You said 'the load of black people that are offended'. Im just pointing out it appears to be mostly whites that are offended.

[Sir David Gray]

The load of black people that found it racist are probably the ones that would decide that. There's plenty of them out there if you want to look, or you can just keep hammering on about how you as a Scottish white person don't find it racist.

What about John Barnes or, more importantly, Benjamin Mendy? Or do their opinions not matter since they don't fit into your narrative?

If Silva had lined up photos of every single black team mate next to this image and said it reminded him of them then we may have had an issue as then he would be implying that all black people look the same which of course would be offensive to any right thinking person.

He didn't do that though. He compared the image with one person, that person has clearly taken it as a joke and wasn't offended. It was no-one else's business to get involved in that. No-one else needed to get offended.

As I said he should have been aware of the potential for this to happen and shouldn't have posted this due to the way these things get dealt with nowadays but that does not make what he did racist or himself a racist.

[CockneyRebel]

Well that's it settled then.......you better tell those that were offended that they have no right to be because some people weren't offended.

Remember there is no grey area, you can't have some people offended by something and some not, that is IMPOSSIBLE.

Here is a black ex-pro footballer explaining why it's wrong: https://www.facebook.com/ESPNUK/videos/460457871261460/


I think it is possible, just read the posts on here. How is it IMPOSSIBLE not to be offended? I'm not offended. I feel the point you are trying to make is that if one person is offended then it must offensive - that's a very poor argument.

[nonshinyfinish]

I think it is possible, just read the posts on here. How is it IMPOSSIBLE not to be offended? I'm not offended. I feel the point you are trying to make is that if one person is offended then it must offensive - that's a very poor argument.Your sarcasm detector needs new batteries.

[SlickShoes]

I have provided a video of Shaka Hislop, a black man, stating what the problems with what he did are.

Maybe the act of what he did wasn't "racist" but it is problematic and causes issues, it's offensive to SOME people, not everyone, but should we only be bothered about things that offend everyone? Or should Shaka Hislop not find it problematic because John Barnes doesnt?

[CockneyRebel]

Your sarcasm detector needs new batteries.


WTF? Your definition of sarcasm needs a lot of work.

[CockneyRebel]

I have provided a video of Shaka Hislop, a black man, stating what the problems with what he did are.

Maybe the act of what he did wasn't "racist" but it is problematic and causes issues, it's offensive to SOME people, not everyone, but should we only be bothered about things that offend everyone? Or should Shaka Hislop not find it problematic because John Barnes doesnt?


Re-arrange these words into a well known phrase or saying - around going circles in.

[Bobby's Cinema]

I am an old fart of 73 and have lived through enormous changes of attitude and perception regarding sexual preferences/race ,colour/religion etc. and if I have learned anything it has to be that you can sometimes swing the pendulum too far when tackling perceived discrimination. I do not wish to over simplify any situations/incidents but sometimes common sense goes out of the window and point scoring takes over. What I try to do is to look at a particular incident and, where possible, reverse the action (white to black/protestant to catholic etc.) and without a knee jerk reaction consider how it looks/feels to me. I have seen many fairly innocuous occurrences turned into vitriolic and hate filled agendas. Personally, I feel able to distinguish for myself where any real harm is being done and I act or react accordingly without pretending to own the moral high ground, just an opinion. Some folk are never happy without a supposed cause to champion or demonise (I include those for and those against any perceived misdemeanour). For many of us there are topics we will never agree on no matter how often they are discussed/debated so we should be wary of over analysis and stick to giving ones opinion whilst refraining from pushing said opinions down unsympathetic throats.
^ Good post :aok:

[nonshinyfinish]

WTF? Your definition of sarcasm needs a lot of work.What SlickShoes said:

"Remember there is no grey area, you can't have some people offended by something and some not, that is IMPOSSIBLE."

What they meant:

"Remember there is a grey area, you can have some people offended by something and some not, that is POSSIBLE."

This rhetorical device is called sarcasm.

[CockneyRebel]

What SlickShoes said:

"Remember there is no grey area, you can't have some people offended by something and some not, that is IMPOSSIBLE."

What they meant:

"Remember there is a grey area, you can have some people offended by something and some not, that is POSSIBLE."

This rhetorical device is called sarcasm.

I think this is the sarcasm!




So why be a smarty pants just for the sake of it? Why not simply post the second version, it actually has more impact. Or do we have to look for hidden meanings or clues to the real message? Or am I just a thicko?