Was last night "good for Scottish football"

[lyonhibs]

Last night obviously saw Rangers and Celtc turn in great performances and get fantastic results against 2 big teams for the level of competition they are in. However, I've seen a lot of chatter about how it was a great night for "Scottish football" and whilst obviously it's better for Scottish teams to not get pumped in Europe, when the 2 teams in question are already massively the richest and most powerful teams in the land, with influence - at least historically and I daresay currently - in the Hampden corridors of power that mean it will realistically ever remain so, I do not see it as a great night for Scottish football as a whole.In a parallel universe where one could redesign Scottish football to be a healthier sporting landscape, I don't think frothing at the gusset over an improved "co-efficient" would feature - the marketing of Scottish football and the attitudes of the blazers in charge would be far, far more important things to target. Once the domestic league was healthier, then our "reputation" as viewed by others could be focused on (and would organically improve)Anyway, before I ramble on - a simple question. Do you think last night was good for Scottish football and perhaps not so simply, why?

[calumhibee1]

A great night for Rangers and Celtic. Not necessarily Scottish football for the reasons you mentioned imo.

[Diclonius]

We've almost got our fifth European spot back.

It's a great night for Scottish football.

[Steve20]

Nope. Good for the two of them, but not for the rest of Scottish Football.

I expect some will be happy that one of the teams won and not the other.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

I think scottish clubs in the main since 2015 have been putting in decent enough performances and building the co-efficient back up to a respectable position (hearts and killie excluded)

Financially we will never catch the old firm. However the better all clubs do in european competitions gives clubs like us easier access to the European football gravy train and could propel us in to a financial position we've maybe never seen before.

For the league to get better we need stronger versions of us, Aberdeen, dundee utd, hearts.

It's up to us whether we have the ambition and structure in place to capitalise....

[The Leith Dutch]

I don't really care about Scottish football I guess.

At club level I might start to be happy about this if Hibs were regularly qualifying for Europe (which should be the aim).
Were that to be happening our next aim would be group stages and then I might start to care about good results making that aim dependent on easier draws or fewer games.
Right now all it does is raise the prospect of both the ugly sisters getting extra dosh from the CL which is a shame as I really, really, really want Sevco to go bust.

And as for the Scottish National team? It's so difficult to be engaged with that because we're so far off being competitive.

Basically, I don't like Scottish football except in as much as the bit that comes along with being a Hibs fan.

[danhibees1875]

I think it's easy to dismiss it as not being good because of the hatred towards rangers and celtic.

Realistically, it probably is. We're edging towards an additional European spot - having 5 instead of 4 is theoretically most beneficial to Hibs who are historically the 5th team in Scotland in terms of league performance.

There's also the exposure Scottish football gets from it and how that reflects in TV deals etc as well as just generally trying to squash the idea that the league is lower end of English League 1.

[Hibs4185]

I read this morning that we are one place away from 2 champions league spots for the 2021/22 season. Hopefully we get that second spot, sevco go bust again and we finish second that season!

Wishful thinking I know!

[makaveli1875]

Its good in the sense it shows people Scottish football isnt as ***** as everyone thinks
Wonder how many lower half league 1 English teams would go to Lazio and win or beat Porto

[Hibbyradge]

Would all our teams getting knocked out in the qualifying rounds be good for Scottish football?

Would it be bad for the rest of the league if all 4 teams had some success in Europe?

Is football in the championship better because the wealth of teams are a bit more similar?

The idea that having a poorer Old Firm would somehow be better for Scottish football is illogical.

Wishing that your opponents were sheite so you might have a chance of beating them is as negative an outlook as you can get.

[Hibbyradge]

I'd like to add, that the more often Scottish players compete against better footballers, the better it is for the Scottish game.

And that applies internationally, at club level in Europe, and domestically.

[davhibby]

I’m happy because we’re well on our way to getting a 5th spot in europe to fight for next season. Which directly benefits us, in more than one way as there will be less qualifiers to play too

[neil7908]

A very bad night for Scottish football.

But of course as its the Old Firm doing well the press are desperate to paint this as benefiting all of us, without any analysis of the implications beyond an extra spot in the Champions League. And guess who will get that extra spot? Not Hibs, Aberdeen, Stranraer, Brechin etc.

Scottish football is a competition. And the richest two teams just got a whole lot of richer.

I've really enjoyed seeing us compete with and regularly beat the Old Firm over the last few years. Those days are gone now and won't be back for a long time I fear.

[scoopyboy]

A very bad night for Scottish football.

But of course as its the Old Firm doing well the press are desperate to paint this as benefiting all of us, without any analysis of the implications beyond an extra spot in the Champions League. And guess who will get that extra spot? Not Hibs, Aberdeen, Stranraer, Brechin etc.

Scottish football is a competition. And the richest two teams just got a whole lot of richer.

I've really enjoyed seeing us compete with and regularly beat the Old Firm over the last few years. Those days are gone now and won't be back for a long time I fear.

Its up to Hibs to step up to the plate.

If through their results we get an extra place in Europe and Hibs consistently finish in the top five then we will generate more money and if spent wisely improve through European runs.

[danhibees1875]

Looking at the coefficient tables I hadn't appreciated the third tier European competition (Europa Conference League - ECL) was coming in as soon as the 21/22 season.

Scotland have a decent chance of moving up to 15th for that I think which would see the following benefits as far as I can tell:

1st - n/a (maybe less qualifiers)
2nd - CL rather than ECL
3rd - EL rather than ECL
4th - n/a (maybe less qualifiers)
5th - ECL rather than nothing

[SickBoy32]

Absolutely not. As others have said, the financial gap just got bigger and the likelihood of Hibs winning trophies has decreased as a result.

Status quo back with a bang.

**** them both, disease on Scottish football.

[One Day Soon]

It depends upon the level of your ambition for our club and for the broader health of Scottish football I think. I guess if your definition of Scottish football is largely determined by how well the Ugly Sisters do then it was a great night for Scottish football. But let's just break that down a bit.

A second champions league place means a place each for Celtic and Rangers currently. That, together with the large amount of cash they are raking in from this Europa Cup run, means even more of a spending imbalance between them and us. That imbalance will continue and deepen the gap in terms of them having better players and better depth of squad to guarantee that they share the league and both cups between themselves more often than not. More money, more honours, more exposure and more media for them, less for everyone else. And more cash to prize away the best prospects that may be developing in other clubs to come and gather splinters in bums on Old Firm benches. Good for Scottish football? Good for the sectarian part of it perhaps.

This discussion reminds me of the comment Jim Sillars made in another context altogether about 90 minute nationalists. I cannot quite get my head around people arguing that these two grotesquely misshapen 'institutions' doing well benefits all of Scottish football, particularly when the tag line to that argument is that 'they will always be dominant anyway, so its unrealistic for us to aim higher and want to compete for a league title or second place, so it's best that we settle for the benefit of an improved coefficient because they'll always have a financial advantage'. It puts me in mind of a political nationalist (and God knows I'm absolutely not a nationalist) saying 'I want independence from the UK but its not realistic to aim for that so it's best for Scotland to know our place and want the UK to do great so that we can benefit on the back of that instead'. It isn't a perfect analogy for a number of reasons but it certainly captures the paucity of ambition.

Every malign, stunted, underachieving, myopic, short-term, rigged aspect of our game can in my view be traced back - one way or another - to the conspiracy of vested interest that colludes to keep the Ugly Sisters protected in Scotland. It is a zero sum game - anything that is good for them is automatically bad for everyone else because their agenda is to preserve the status quo of a league that is structured in their interests, a hierarchy that operates in their interests, a media that fawns in their interests, a public order blind spot that is willfully deaf and blind in their interests and, most depressingly, a number of other clubs in such an Uncle Tom mindset that they snuggle up to the very vampires that have bled our game of its potential and vibrancy for literally decades.

These parasites want everything and then they complain that the rest don't give them a strong enough league and competition to properly develop their players to a level fit for Europe. The collapse of Old Rangers was just about the best thing to happen to Scottish football in the last 100 years. It opened up, however briefly, an environment of far more genuine competition and began to allow others to get a glimpse of what a normal football environment might look like. The Ugly Sisters are both a symptom and a cause of a very deeply ****ed up society where division and genuine hatred runs very deep. They're bad for Scotland and bad for Scottish football. I wish nothing but ill on them both.

[Curried]

No. … Celtic and the current Tribute Act’s forerunner have moaned for years about their wish to be playing football in England. I can only hope this comes to pass, as I believe Scottish Football: a) does not need their sectarian bull****, 2) will do better without them pockoling the best local talent, and 3) will provide a basis for any Scottish team to compete in the European Champions League.

[where'stheslope]

Was it good for Scottish Football? Two words "Scott Allen", Taken away from us only to get splinters on his bum at Parkhead!!!
The financial pull of these clubs makes it nearly impossible for the other 10 teams in the league!!!
Yes! We can win the odd game here and there, but in the long run they are more likely to win against any other team!!!
To create a more level league you would need to cap the Uglies spending, and that is never going to happen!!!
We once had a player that no Scottish club could afford in George Best, unfortunately he was well past his best when we had him!!!!
Nowadays Celtic and Rangers are bringing in multi million pound players that any other team would need to break the bank to pay them never mind afford to buy them???
The big concern is it will only get worse in Scotland, we've had the Rangers demise years, and no other team was able to benefit from it other than Celtic.
At least we may see a fight from both of them for the league, so its back to trying to win a cup, and that is no gimmee!!!!!

[Antifa Hibs]

Last night was indeed great for Scottish Football, so long as it get us the extra euro place. What's holding us back is Hibs, Aberdeen and Hearts having zero ambition and generally on the whole accept being utter *****. It's easy and convenient for us to blame the big bad old firm for our problems instead of taking responsibility ourselves. Rangers and Celtic might hoover up all domestic trophies there is absolutely no reason why a Scottish team outside Glasgow shouldn't be qualifying for the Europa group stages and bagging the £3-4m that comes along with it.

Take a look at Sparta Prague this week. Going to the Nou Camp and getting a cleansheet and a point - absolutely tremendous. They average less than us and Hearts and it costs more for a pint of Stella in Robbies than it does for a Sparta ticket and they're in the Champions League giving it a good go. Scottish football on the otherhand, accepting Aberdeen getting pumped by the Croatian equivalent of Motherwell, Hearts in Malta, us against Molde "they're 6 games into their season".

An extra place in European competitions can only be a good thing so long as we compete and try to claim it and then the teams entering the competition have the balls and give it a good go. Blaming the old firm for all our problems is getting like Sturgeon blaming Westminster for everything - not strictly true and its getting ****ing tiresome (not to turn this into a politics thread).

Hibs should be competing at the top end of the table and be well into a 5 or 10 year plan that see's us entering the Europa group stages - maybe we do and are just failing? However let's blame the old firm for that...

[Hibrandenburg]

Last night obviously saw Rangers and Celtc turn in great performances and get fantastic results against 2 big teams for the level of competition they are in. However, I've seen a lot of chatter about how it was a great night for "Scottish football" and whilst obviously it's better for Scottish teams to not get pumped in Europe, when the 2 teams in question are already massively the richest and most powerful teams in the land, with influence - at least historically and I daresay currently - in the Hampden corridors of power that mean it will realistically ever remain so, I do not see it as a great night for Scottish football as a whole.In a parallel universe where one could redesign Scottish football to be a healthier sporting landscape, I don't think frothing at the gusset over an improved "co-efficient" would feature - the marketing of Scottish football and the attitudes of the blazers in charge would be far, far more important things to target. Once the domestic league was healthier, then our "reputation" as viewed by others could be focused on (and would organically improve)Anyway, before I ramble on - a simple question. Do you think last night was good for Scottish football and perhaps not so simply, why?

Spot on. It's the same in many European leagues with the top clubs strengthening their foothold on domestic leagues with European prize money and exposure. The whole thing has become an elite members only club with little or no trickle down to grass roots football.

[Rumble de Thump]

Spot on. It's the same in many European leagues with the top clubs strengthening their foothold on domestic leagues with European prize money and exposure. The whole thing has become an elite members only club with little or no trickle down to grass roots football.The thing that makes it particularly bad in Scottish football is the extensive cheating, corruption and criminal activity surrounding Rangers/Sevco. The media and the authorities wanted it back to 'business as usual' ASAP as though nothing had ever happened, and they've worked hard to make that happen. Sevco's existence is a blight on Scottish football and the country's culture, and it needs to go bust and stay bust. That would be good for Scottish football.

[HoboHarry]

It seems kind of daft to me to be wanting the teams last night to fail whilst at the same time complaining when eejits like Robbie Savage talk the Scottish game down.

As for the gap, they have been miles ahead of us forever and will remain so forever and nothing that happened last night changes that.....

[Keith_M]

Pro:

The other Scottish Clubs, like Hibs, have the opportunity to appear once ever few years in a slightly later pre-qualifying round of the Europa League than they do at the moment.

In essence, we'll miss out the round where we beat a team from the Pharoe Islands that nobody had ever heard of before that point, and go straight to the round where we knocked out by a small team from Norway that the older fans among us can remember when we beat them 9-0 in the early 1970s.

Cons:

The Rangers and Celtc's coffers are boosted even further... reducing even more the slim possibility of any other club winning any of the three domestic trophies.



Good for Scotland? Yer having a laugh!

[WeeRussell]

It seems kind of daft to me to be wanting the teams last night to fail whilst at the same time complaining when eejits like Robbie Savage talk the Scottish game down.

As for the gap, they have been miles ahead of us forever and will remain so forever and nothing that happened last night changes that.....

I'm guilty of this. It's a predicament some of us find ourselves in when dealing with two of the ****miest teams in the world. However I'd argue that it's not daft to want your rivals not to win, but still talk-up the quality of our game.

There's a lot of good sides in the world that I generally want to get beat... doesn't mean I don't think they're any good.

Taking the coefficient chat as a consolation is about as far as I'll go. You'll never find me wanting either of that pair to succeed in any competition, domestically or abroad.

[Deansy]

Nope - SFA 'good' about 'Old S*um' making more money than the rest of Scottish Football who don't use 'Sectarianism' as a marketing-tool !

[zlatan]

With the Europa Conference coming up in the next few years it probably is a good thing if it means less qualifiers/direct entry for clubs finishing 3rd or 4th in the league here to that

[One Day Soon]

It seems kind of daft to me to be wanting the teams last night to fail whilst at the same time complaining when eejits like Robbie Savage talk the Scottish game down.

As for the gap, they have been miles ahead of us forever and will remain so forever and nothing that happened last night changes that.....

Because Hibs are, to borrow a phrase from John Swinney 'too wee, too poor' to do any better?

[neil7908]

Its up to Hibs to step up to the plate.

If through their results we get an extra place in Europe and Hibs consistently finish in the top five then we will generate more money and if spent wisely improve through European runs.

Sorry but that's far too simplistic for me. Our chances of winning trophies are greatly diminished by two already wealthy clubs becoming ever more wealthy.

2nd place was achievable before and Aberdeen stepped up to the plate. Now its a pipe dream.

Football is by and large a zero sum game - the success of one or two teams rarely reaps benefits for others.

[Begbie79]

I cant for the life of me fathom out why anyone in their right mind would think that the performance of the ugly sisters in this years Europa League ISNT a good thing for Scottish football and possibly Hibs. If we end up with an extra place, or the chance to enter at a more advanced stage thats surely a good thing, no?

[NAE NOOKIE]

It was good insomuch as it helped the coefficient and I suppose the image of our game ... Our struggle against Celtic last Saturday gets put in a better light when you realise it was against a team who can beat Lazio home and away.

But for our game domestically not really. As others have said, its just two teams financially miles ahead of everybody else getting even richer and anybody who doesnt see the down side of that hasnt been paying attention to European football over the last 20 years.

Oh and I saw another poster trot out the often mooted theory that both arse cheeks buggering off to England or a European super league would be good for the other teams in Scotland and our league. No it wouldnt, all that would happen is both uglies having to build bigger stadiums to accommodate the thousands of kids deserting a diet of Hibs v Hamilton or Dundee v Motherwell to dine out on Celtic v Liverpool or Rangers v Ajax. Our league would become as relevant to Scottish kids as the Welsh league is to Cardiff City and Swansea supporters.

[jacomo]

We've almost got our fifth European spot back.

It's a great night for Scottish football.


:agree:

I find it really hard to begrudge any scottish club success in Europe (even the zombies). I will admit to laughing at them when they fail, but that’s just the nature of football isn’t it?

Just a shame that Hibs are involved so infrequently.

[SeanWilson]

Celtic beating Lazio away and the rangers beating Porto at home .

Has Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland ever had a more successful European night ?

[hibsbollah]

Would all our teams getting knocked out in the qualifying rounds be good for Scottish football?

Would it be bad for the rest of the league if all 4 teams had some success in Europe?

Is football in the championship better because the wealth of teams are a bit more similar?

The idea that having a poorer Old Firm would somehow be better for Scottish football is illogical.

Wishing that your opponents were sheite so you might have a chance of beating them is as negative an outlook as you can get.

Prior to reading your post I took the opposite view. But youve made very valid points and I tend to agree with you.

[Smartie]

It depends on the metrics you use to measure the success of Scottish football.

In the eyes of most people it was a great night for Scottish football.

Personally I like sports clubs to have sustainable business models, I abhor sectarianism, I enjoy good competition (more than I enjoy 2 horse races), I take a bit more than a passing interest in the success of the national side and I care about the image of Scots amongst people abroad.

Pretty much all of the things I hold dear to me would suggest that in my eyes last night was a bad night for Scottish football. I've never been overseas on the bevvy to support Hibs though, and the chances of that happening increase with nights like last night so I suppose I can just about deal with it.

[Since452]

The only thing the ugly sisters wins in Europe is good for is them. If our coefficient improves it'll only mean the likes of Killie go out to a minnow one round later than normal

[PeeJay]

Seems to me success for Scottish teams in Europe is ultimately good for Scottish football, regardless of who they are.

[Lago]

It was good insomuch as it helped the coefficient and I suppose the image of our game ... Our struggle against Celtic last Saturday gets put in a better light when you realise it was against a team who can beat Lazio home and away.

But for our game domestically not really. As others have said, its just two teams financially miles ahead of everybody else getting even richer and anybody who doesnt see the down side of that hasnt been paying attention to European football over the last 20 years.

Oh and I saw another poster trot out the often mooted theory that both arse cheeks buggering off to England or a European super league would be good for the other teams in Scotland and our league. No it wouldnt, all that would happen is both uglies having to build bigger stadiums to accommodate the thousands of kids deserting a diet of Hibs v Hamilton or Dundee v Motherwell to dine out on Celtic v Liverpool or Rangers v Ajax. Our league would become as relevant to Scottish kids as the Welsh league is to Cardiff City and Swansea supporters.
Correct

[One Day Soon]

The only thing the ugly sisters wins in Europe is good for is them. If our coefficient improves it'll only mean the likes of Killie go out to a minnow one round later than normal

Trickle down economics: exploitative, false and discredited. Except in Scottish football apparently.

[Smartie]

This point probably won't be popular, but I do think that the fortunes of Scottish football depends in a big way on Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and possibly Dundee United.

Rangers and Celtic have always done a decent job of punching their (reasonably heavy) weight, a lot of Scotland's smaller clubs have done ok over the years but the impact that the tier of clubs below the Glasgow two have had in Europe over the years has been absolutely pitiful.

Aberdeen have had a decent chance to exert themselves but the amount of money Hearts in particular have wasted on getting nowhere is shameful. The amount of time that Hibs, Hearts and Dundee United have spent outside the top flight over the past couple of decades has been disgraceful.

Someone has cited the example of Slavia Prague the other night and it is a fair shout. We really need to see a lot more from the clubs outwith the big 2. I suppose a 5th European place might improve the chances of ourselves getting into Europe more regularly and being able to build on the experience. That's what Scottish football really needs to see.

[Hibeesmad]

Celtic and Rangers will always be a lot better off than the rest of the teams in Scotland regardless of whether they win a couple of European games or not. Them beating these 'big' teams is a good reflection on Scottish Football as a whole and it goes a long way in providing an extra European spot for the teams in the top flight. generating more money into Scottish Football and raising it's profile.

[Eyrie]

On balance, yes.

The extra money that the Ugly Sisters will make won't affect their advantage over the rest of us. That gap is simply too big for anyone to realistically do a Leicester which means that they are still a legitimate target for every other team in an individual league game or cup match. It just means our eleven playing well enough on the day to beat their eleven.

So if it helps Scottish clubs get another European place or a better seeding then, unpalatable as it feels to be nice to either arse cheek, results like last night are good for Scottish football.

It's up to Hibs under our new manager to ensure that we are the club to benefit from that extra place or better seeding.

[Paisley Hibby]

Did something happen last night?

[bod]

We've almost got our fifth European spot back.

It's a great night for Scottish football.

This

[Iggy Pope]

I was brought up on Scottish football so I suppose I’m stuck with it.
I’m also in that respect, stuck with the Old Firm and as they’ve always been here, then sorry, I cannot imagine Scottish Football without them. Not sure I want it without them either and I’ve heard all the arguments. Welsh and Irish leagues are something we shouldn’t aspire to. Small ponds no big fish.

Ergo, it was a good night for Scottish football. And happily, a really ***** night for those giants of Italian and Portuguese football, right? Hope they stuff a couple of French trendies soon.

[Hibbyradge]

I was brought up on Scottish football so I suppose I’m stuck with it.
I’m also in that respect, stuck with the Old Firm and as they’ve always been here, then sorry, I cannot imagine Scottish Football without them. Not sure I want it without them either and I’ve heard all the arguments. Welsh and Irish leagues are something we shouldn’t aspire to. Small ponds no big fish.

Ergo, it was a good night for Scottish football. And happily, a really ***** night for those giants of Italian and Portuguese football, right? Hope they stuff a couple of French trendies soon.

Good lad. A fine argument. 👍

[CloudSquall]

For me given the financial backing and their attendance figures Rangers and Celtic will always be out of reach, European football or not.

For Hibs it is about the occasional cup win and getting into Europe regularly, with the long term goal of reaching the group stages of the Europa League at some point.

If Celtic and Rangers going further gives us more opportunities due to more European places up for grabs, I'll be content to see them winning in Europe.

[Sir David Gray]

Neither of them give two hoots about Scotland and their fans would rather be Irish and Northern Irish so their results are irrelevant to me.

[The 90+2]

Neither of them give two hoots about Scotland and their fans would rather be Irish and Northern Irish so their results are irrelevant to me.

This.

[California-Hibs]

Course it was a fantastic night for Scottish football anyone who thinks otherwise is off their head and probably let their hated towards Celtic and Rangers cloud their thinking on the matter.
The Old Firm will always be firmly ahead of the rest of us. That's just a cold hard fact, they have the fan bases and financial power even outwith European money that will always make this so.

We are now on the cusp of an extra European place added to the league, meaning 2nd will gain a Champions League spot and 5th will now earn a Europa place. This not only enhances Hibs chances of European football but even if its someone else,it gives our game as a whole more global recognition and that 5th Euro place allows an extra team to enjoy some additional income that for certain clubs can be huge for building infrastructure, player recruitment etc.

Its not rocket science and is actually a pretty stupid question but there you go.

Well done to the both of them last night.

[Chuck Rhoades]

It’s mixed.

The only good thing I see is the benefits to our coefficient which has led to Scotland nearing an extra european place. This absolutely benefits us.

However, it also widens the domestic gap as those windows result in higher income. It’s also likely both will qualify from their group which will lead to even more income. This is terrible for everyone out with the OF domestically.

[B.H.F.C]

It’s mixed.

The only good thing I see is the benefits to our coefficient which has led to Scotland nearing an extra european place. This absolutely benefits us.

However, it also widens the domestic gap as those windows result in higher income. It’s also likely both will qualify from their group which will lead to even more income. This is terrible for everyone out with the OF domestically.

They are so far in front financially, that I don’t think the additional finance makes a huge difference in some ways. The Rangers shouldn’t be so far in front financially, given the millions they are losing, but a lot of people were happy to ‘move on’ from that not so long ago.

If the coefficient is improved to a level that we get an extra place back or can enter qualifying a bit later then, grudgingly, you have to say it’s beneficial to us all. It’s then a potential game changer, financially, for any of the other teams if they can take advantage.

[judas]

A few years back, there was a lot of laughing and joking about the coefficient. At the time it irritated me. How could a better co-efficient be a pointless thing?

Now, I do see any such effect in our ranking as being something of a benign statistic. I doff my cap to it, while knowing that increasingly, it’s Derbies, Cup Runs and being above Hearts at the end of the season that really spark the interest of fans.