Stubbs' time at Hibs: Ten Objective Facts

[HibeeHibernian4]

This is not making the case for Alan Stubbs to be the new Hibs manager. As much as I love him (and think he's a very good manager) I think appointing a manager who some Hibs fans have decided isn't good enough is never going to end well.

However, when talking about Stubbs, it's only right you look at the facts in an objective manner. People who say "he finished third behind Falkirk!!!!" are completely ignoring so much of the context that surrounds it.

Here are the facts of Alan Stubbs' time at Hibs.

1) He became Hibs manager on 24th June 2014 and arrived with a squad of just fourteen senior players:
- Paul Hanlon
- Ryan McGivern
- Fraser Nelson
- Jordon Forster
- Lewis Stevenson
- Scott Robertson
- Liam Craig
- Alex Harris
- Danny Handling
- Sam Stanton
- Owain Tudur Jones
- Paul Heffernan
- Ross Caldwell
- Jason Cummings



2) The general consensus of this board at the time was that he had a massive job in front of him, and there was little to no talk of winning the league. You can see this for yourself on the thread where his appointment was confirmed: https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?286083-Official-Site-Stubbs-Appointed-Head-Coach

3) His first season was easily the most difficult Scottish second tier that has ever been contested. Hibs, Hearts and Rangers in the second division of Scottish football was unthinkable, and will most likely never be repeated again. The bottleneck of the promotion system meant that one, if not two, of these teams were going to be stuck in the Championship for another season.

4) He outperformed expectations with Hibs finishing second that season. He also took us to the quarter final of the League Cup (losing on penalties to a high-flying Dundee United side) and the semi final of the Scottish Cup (a poor defeat against an average Falkirk side who were to become a thorn in his side). The play-off defeat to Rangers was a sore one to take. Again, though, the general consensus was not even close to "he needs to go" or "we should've been promoted": https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301162-Alan-Stubbs + https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301214-Honest-expectations-from-the-season-gone!

5) Rangers' defeat to Motherwell in the play-off meant that Stubbs was then faced with the second most difficult Scottish second tier in history. A resurgent Rangers under Warburton and a Peter Houston Falkirk side who picked up 70 points (one fewer than Lennon's Hibs did the season afterwards). Stubbs also was hindered by a Scott Allan transfer saga throughout the summer of 2015, although he still managed to do cracking business in bringing in John McGinn, Dylan McGeouch and Liam Henderson in the space of a fortnight in early August.

6) He had Hibs level with Rangers at Christmas and in the semi finals of the League Cup for good measure. We went seventeen games unbeaten between late August and late December, winning 15 of them. That is phenomenal going. Rangers eventually pulled away from us in the league, that was the price worth paying for League and Scottish Cup finals. Note: Alan Stubbs is the only manager in Hibs' history to reach both major finals in the same season.

7) Hibs played 54 games in 2015/16. Here's a breakdown of the top ten seasons by number of competitive games played:
1972/73: 55 games
2015/16: 54 games

1992/93: 53 games
2006/07: 53 games
1991/92: 52 games
1968/69: 51 games
1993/94: 51 games
1986/87: 49 games
1974/75: 49 games
2018/19: 49 games


8) His derby record was a fairly impressive P6 W2 D3 L1. He lost his first one and then started our nine in a row against Hearts, going five undefeated against them before he left.

9) His transfer recruitment was simply fantastic. Scott Allan, Dylan McGeouch, John McGinn, Dominique Malonga, Fraser Fyvie and Martin Boyle are the standouts, but he also turned signings that didn't exactly get us excited into very consistent players. David Gray, Darren McGregor, Marvin Bartley, Liam Fontaine and James Keatings coming to mind. Even rabbits out of the hat like Conrad Logan were pivotal to point number ten.

10) He was the manager when Hibs won the Scottish Cup for the first time in 114 years. He tactical out-thought Warburton that day and his players (especially his first ever signing, club captain David Gray) outfought Rangers.

[Stuart93]

We know how badly you want the job Alan. Go speak to John and Taff and let us know

[Barman Stanton]

But, but, but he never got Hibs promoted.

Good post. Too many seem to see it in black and white of winning promotion or not.

[Since452]

This is not making the case for Alan Stubbs to be the new Hibs manager. As much as I love him (and think he's a very good manager) I think appointing a manager who some Hibs fans have decided isn't good enough is never going to end well.

However, when talking about Stubbs, it's only right you look at the facts in an objective manner. People who say "he finished third behind Falkirk!!!!" are completely ignoring so much of the context that surrounds it.

Here are the facts of Alan Stubbs' time at Hibs.

1) He became Hibs manager on 24th June 2014 and arrived with a squad of just fourteen senior players:
- Paul Hanlon
- Ryan McGivern
- Fraser Nelson
- Jordon Forster
- Lewis Stevenson
- Scott Robertson
- Liam Craig
- Alex Harris
- Danny Handling
- Sam Stanton
- Owain Tudur Jones
- Paul Heffernan
- Ross Caldwell
- Jason Cummings



2) The general consensus of this board at the time was that he had a massive job in front of him, and there was little to no talk of winning the league. You can see this for yourself on the thread where his appointment was confirmed: https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?286083-Official-Site-Stubbs-Appointed-Head-Coach

3) His first season was easily the most difficult Scottish second tier that has ever been contested. Hibs, Hearts and Rangers in the second division of Scottish football was unthinkable, and will most likely never be repeated again. The bottleneck of the promotion system meant that one, if not two, of these teams were going to be stuck in the Championship for another season.

4) He outperformed expectations with Hibs finishing second that season. He also took us to the quarter final of the League Cup (losing on penalties to a high-flying Dundee United side) and the semi final of the Scottish Cup (a poor defeat against an average Falkirk side who were to become a thorn in his side). The play-off defeat to Rangers was a sore one to take. Again, though, the general consensus was not even close to "he needs to go" or "we should've been promoted": https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301162-Alan-Stubbs + https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301214-Honest-expectations-from-the-season-gone!

5) Rangers' defeat to Motherwell in the play-off meant that Stubbs was then faced with the second most difficult Scottish second tier in history. A resurgent Rangers under Warburton and a Peter Houston Falkirk side who picked up 70 points (one fewer than Lennon's Hibs did the season afterwards). Stubbs also was hindered by a Scott Allan transfer saga throughout the summer of 2015, although he still managed to do cracking business in bringing in John McGinn, Dylan McGeouch and Liam Henderson in the space of a fortnight in early August.

6) He had Hibs level with Rangers at Christmas and in the semi finals of the League Cup for good measure. We went seventeen games unbeaten between late August and late December, winning 15 of them. That is phenomenal going. Rangers eventually pulled away from us in the league, that was the price worth paying for League and Scottish Cup finals. Note: Alan Stubbs is the only manager in Hibs' history to reach both major finals in the same season.

7) Hibs played 54 games in 2015/16. Here's a breakdown of the top ten seasons by number of competitive games played:
1972/73: 55 games
2015/16: 54 games

1992/93: 53 games
2006/07: 53 games
1991/92: 52 games
1968/69: 51 games
1993/94: 51 games
1986/87: 49 games
1974/75: 49 games
2018/19: 49 games


8) His derby record was a fairly impressive P6 W2 D3 L1. He lost his first one and then started our nine in a row against Hearts, going five undefeated against them before he left.

9) His transfer recruitment was simply fantastic. Scott Allan, Dylan McGeouch, Dominique Malonga, Fraser Fyvie and Martin Boyle are the standouts, but he also turned signings that didn't exactly get us excited into very consistent players. David Gray, Darren McGregor, Marvin Bartley, Liam Fontaine and James Keatings coming to mind. Even rabbits out of the hat like Conrad Logan were pivotal to point number ten.

10) He was the manager when Hibs won the Scottish Cup for the first time in 114 years. He tactical out-thought Warburton that day and his players (especially his first ever signing, club captain David Gray) outfought Rangers.

You forgot John McGinn!

[The 90+2]

Stubbsy, Stubbsy!

[southsider]

You forgot John McGinn!

No he didn’t see Para 5.

[HibeeHibernian4]

You forgot John McGinn!

A shocking oversight on my part. Added now. :aok:

[The 90+2]

You forgot John McGinn!

And hammering Rangers numerous times.

[HibeeHibernian4]

One more fact that I wanted to add but forgot about. Stubbs' record against top flight teams being very good:



Ross County 0-2 Hibernian
Hibernian 3-3 Dundee United AET (Dundee United win on penalties)
Hibernian 2-0 Aberdeen
Hibernian 3-0 Dundee United
Hibernian 2-1 St Johnstone
Hearts 2-2 Hibernian
Hibernian 1-0 Hearts
Hibernian 1-1 Inverness Caley
Ross County 2-1 Hibernian
Inverness Caley 1-2 Hibernian
Hibernian 0-0 Dundee United (Hibernian win on penalties)


P11
W6
D4
L1

[HibeeSince85]

This is not making the case for Alan Stubbs to be the new Hibs manager. As much as I love him (and think he's a very good manager) I think appointing a manager who some Hibs fans have decided isn't good enough is never going to end well.

However, when talking about Stubbs, it's only right you look at the facts in an objective manner. People who say "he finished third behind Falkirk!!!!" are completely ignoring so much of the context that surrounds it.

Here are the facts of Alan Stubbs' time at Hibs.

1) He became Hibs manager on 24th June 2014 and arrived with a squad of just fourteen senior players:
- Paul Hanlon
- Ryan McGivern
- Fraser Nelson
- Jordon Forster
- Lewis Stevenson
- Scott Robertson
- Liam Craig
- Alex Harris
- Danny Handling
- Sam Stanton
- Owain Tudur Jones
- Paul Heffernan
- Ross Caldwell
- Jason Cummings



2) The general consensus of this board at the time was that he had a massive job in front of him, and there was little to no talk of winning the league. You can see this for yourself on the thread where his appointment was confirmed: https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?286083-Official-Site-Stubbs-Appointed-Head-Coach

3) His first season was easily the most difficult Scottish second tier that has ever been contested. Hibs, Hearts and Rangers in the second division of Scottish football was unthinkable, and will most likely never be repeated again. The bottleneck of the promotion system meant that one, if not two, of these teams were going to be stuck in the Championship for another season.

4) He outperformed expectations with Hibs finishing second that season. He also took us to the quarter final of the League Cup (losing on penalties to a high-flying Dundee United side) and the semi final of the Scottish Cup (a poor defeat against an average Falkirk side who were to become a thorn in his side). The play-off defeat to Rangers was a sore one to take. Again, though, the general consensus was not even close to "he needs to go" or "we should've been promoted": https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301162-Alan-Stubbs + https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301214-Honest-expectations-from-the-season-gone!

5) Rangers' defeat to Motherwell in the play-off meant that Stubbs was then faced with the second most difficult Scottish second tier in history. A resurgent Rangers under Warburton and a Peter Houston Falkirk side who picked up 70 points (one fewer than Lennon's Hibs did the season afterwards). Stubbs also was hindered by a Scott Allan transfer saga throughout the summer of 2015, although he still managed to do cracking business in bringing in John McGinn, Dylan McGeouch and Liam Henderson in the space of a fortnight in early August.

6) He had Hibs level with Rangers at Christmas and in the semi finals of the League Cup for good measure. We went seventeen games unbeaten between late August and late December, winning 15 of them. That is phenomenal going. Rangers eventually pulled away from us in the league, that was the price worth paying for League and Scottish Cup finals. Note: Alan Stubbs is the only manager in Hibs' history to reach both major finals in the same season.

7) Hibs played 54 games in 2015/16. Here's a breakdown of the top ten seasons by number of competitive games played:

1972/73: 55 games
2015/16: 54 games

1992/93: 53 games
2006/07: 53 games
1991/92: 52 games
1968/69: 51 games
1993/94: 51 games
1986/87: 49 games
1974/75: 49 games
2018/19: 49 games


8) His derby record was a fairly impressive P6 W2 D3 L1. He lost his first one and then started our nine in a row against Hearts, going five undefeated against them before he left.

9) His transfer recruitment was simply fantastic. Scott Allan, Dylan McGeouch, Dominique Malonga, Fraser Fyvie and Martin Boyle are the standouts, but he also turned signings that didn't exactly get us excited into very consistent players. Darren McGregor, Marvin Bartley, Liam Fontaine and James Keatings coming to mind. Even rabbits out of the hat like Conrad Logan were pivotal to point number ten.

10) He was the manager when Hibs won the Scottish Cup for the first time in 114 years. He tactical out-thought Warburton that day and his players (especially his first ever signing, club captain David Gray) outfought Rangers.

He’s my choice but I doubt it’ll happen.

He wants the job, he knows the club, he has proven he can get players to play for him and do so playing attractive football.
He’s not scared of the old firm unlike Hecky.

I think players like Allan would thrive under him and if I was to trust anybody to get the most out of the new guys signed, it would be Stubbsy.

No idea why some fans don’t hold the Scottish Cup winning manager in higher regard

[Leith Green]

I would be open to Stubbs coming back

[chrisski33]

The fact that he brought in some great players is enough for me to give him a second chance

[Leitherhibs]

1) He became Hibs manager on 24th June 2014 and arrived with a squad of just fourteen senior players:
- Paul Hanlon
- Ryan McGivern
- Fraser Nelson
- Jordon Forster
- Lewis Stevenson
- Scott Robertson
- Liam Craig
- Alex Harris
- Danny Handling
- Sam Stanton
- Owain Tudur Jones
- Paul Heffernan
- Ross Caldwell
- Jason Cummings


At least 6 of the names on that list above give me the fear.

[HibeeHibernian4]

[/INDENT]
At least 6 of the names on that list above give me the fear.

Only six?! :greengrin

[H13BYM]

Also just to say it was his very first proper managerial gig, a complete rookie, done pretty well whilst learning his craft. if he had stayed then both hibs and Stubbs would have gone from strength to strength.

[Smartie]

This is not making the case for Alan Stubbs to be the new Hibs manager. As much as I love him (and think he's a very good manager) I think appointing a manager who some Hibs fans have decided isn't good enough is never going to end well.

However, when talking about Stubbs, it's only right you look at the facts in an objective manner. People who say "he finished third behind Falkirk!!!!" are completely ignoring so much of the context that surrounds it.

Here are the facts of Alan Stubbs' time at Hibs.

1) He became Hibs manager on 24th June 2014 and arrived with a squad of just fourteen senior players:
- Paul Hanlon
- Ryan McGivern
- Fraser Nelson
- Jordon Forster
- Lewis Stevenson
- Scott Robertson
- Liam Craig
- Alex Harris
- Danny Handling
- Sam Stanton
- Owain Tudur Jones
- Paul Heffernan
- Ross Caldwell
- Jason Cummings



2) The general consensus of this board at the time was that he had a massive job in front of him, and there was little to no talk of winning the league. You can see this for yourself on the thread where his appointment was confirmed: https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?286083-Official-Site-Stubbs-Appointed-Head-Coach

3) His first season was easily the most difficult Scottish second tier that has ever been contested. Hibs, Hearts and Rangers in the second division of Scottish football was unthinkable, and will most likely never be repeated again. The bottleneck of the promotion system meant that one, if not two, of these teams were going to be stuck in the Championship for another season.

4) He outperformed expectations with Hibs finishing second that season. He also took us to the quarter final of the League Cup (losing on penalties to a high-flying Dundee United side) and the semi final of the Scottish Cup (a poor defeat against an average Falkirk side who were to become a thorn in his side). The play-off defeat to Rangers was a sore one to take. Again, though, the general consensus was not even close to "he needs to go" or "we should've been promoted": https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301162-Alan-Stubbs + https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301214-Honest-expectations-from-the-season-gone!

5) Rangers' defeat to Motherwell in the play-off meant that Stubbs was then faced with the second most difficult Scottish second tier in history. A resurgent Rangers under Warburton and a Peter Houston Falkirk side who picked up 70 points (one fewer than Lennon's Hibs did the season afterwards). Stubbs also was hindered by a Scott Allan transfer saga throughout the summer of 2015, although he still managed to do cracking business in bringing in John McGinn, Dylan McGeouch and Liam Henderson in the space of a fortnight in early August.

6) He had Hibs level with Rangers at Christmas and in the semi finals of the League Cup for good measure. We went seventeen games unbeaten between late August and late December, winning 15 of them. That is phenomenal going. Rangers eventually pulled away from us in the league, that was the price worth paying for League and Scottish Cup finals. Note: Alan Stubbs is the only manager in Hibs' history to reach both major finals in the same season.

7) Hibs played 54 games in 2015/16. Here's a breakdown of the top ten seasons by number of competitive games played:
1972/73: 55 games
2015/16: 54 games

1992/93: 53 games
2006/07: 53 games
1991/92: 52 games
1968/69: 51 games
1993/94: 51 games
1986/87: 49 games
1974/75: 49 games
2018/19: 49 games


8) His derby record was a fairly impressive P6 W2 D3 L1. He lost his first one and then started our nine in a row against Hearts, going five undefeated against them before he left.

9) His transfer recruitment was simply fantastic. Scott Allan, Dylan McGeouch, John McGinn, Dominique Malonga, Fraser Fyvie and Martin Boyle are the standouts, but he also turned signings that didn't exactly get us excited into very consistent players. David Gray, Darren McGregor, Marvin Bartley, Liam Fontaine and James Keatings coming to mind. Even rabbits out of the hat like Conrad Logan were pivotal to point number ten.

10) He was the manager when Hibs won the Scottish Cup for the first time in 114 years. He tactical out-thought Warburton that day and his players (especially his first ever signing, club captain David Gray) outfought Rangers.

Good post, and the only thing I'd disagree with is your slightly disrespectful dismissal of Falkirk.

They weren't the Brazil 1970 side but there were a tough, stuffy side who never knew they were beaten and had some talented individuals. They were a proper banana skin of a team who should probably be most aggrieved that they found themselves in the same league as ourselves, Hearts and Sevco. They were good enough to win a "normal" First Division and that side broke up just before they had a decent shot at promotion again. Houston was a proper adversary for us to have down there and his side gave us a lot of problems on a number of occasions - a Hibs side that we all agree was bursting with talent.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Good post, and the only thing I'd disagree with is your slightly disrespectful dismissal of Falkirk.

They weren't the Brazil 1970 side but there were a tough, stuffy side who never knew they were beaten and had some talented individuals. They were a proper banana skin of a team who should probably be most aggrieved that they found themselves in the same league as ourselves, Hearts and Sevco. They were good enough to win a "normal" First Division and that side broke up just before they had a decent shot at promotion again. Houston was a proper adversary for us to have down there and his side gave us a lot of problems on a number of occasions - a Hibs side that we all agree was bursting with talent.

Sorry, just to clarify, I was referring to the 2014/15 Falkirk side, who had a disappointing season and finished outside the play-offs. The 2015/16 Falkirk were, as you say, a very decent side!

[Green_one]

Stubbs until the end of the season would be a reasonable position IMHO

Known quantity, knows the club and players, knows the league, capable against the Hearts, has potential in the cup

Try before we buy :cb

My worry is the alternatives are not convincing on ability or cost

[Robbo6-2]

I wouldny be adverse to bringing stubbsy back

[Baader]

Stubbs did a great job after inheriting a far bigger mess than we have right now. His overall signings were great for Hibs and he rebuilt our club, getting the fans back on board.

[Not In The Know]

he would need Doolan and Taff or its a no from me.

[Pretty Boy]

Stubbs was good for Hibs and we were good for him. The complete dismissal of the cup win as 'lucky' by some is ridiculous. It wasn't just one game.

I'm not sure how I feel about him coming back, maybe it's one of those things best left in the past. As far as I'm concerned though he was a success at Hibs and no amount of bleating about Falkirk and dismissal of various other circumstances that season will change my mind.

In 30, 40 or 50 years time people will still recall the cup win as their best day in football, I'd wager the same people will struggle to remember where we finished in the league and even fewer will care.

[brog]

Excellent post! We also beat The Rangers in an official game by the highest margin in our history. Our midfield was Handling, S Allan, S Robertson & Craig!! Now that's some achievement!!

[Northernhibee]

If Stanton and Turnbull are top tier managers in the history of our club, Stubbs would be second tier.

He changed so many things for the better and brought us what nobody else managed for over a century.

I’ll give him a piggyback all the way to Leith if that’s what it takes.

[BILLYHIBS]

The Scottish Cup win alone puts Stubbs up there with Dan McMichael should never have left

100% convinced he would have got us promotion in that third season without a The Rangers or Hearts

[calumhibee1]

I’d love to have him back. I would however hate to have him back and see him struggle... but imo it could well be worth the gamble.

[calumhibee1]

The Scottish Cup win alone puts Stubbs up there with Dan McMichael should never have left

100% convinced he would have got us promotion in that third season without a The Rangers or Hearts

There’s no doubt about it that we would have got promoted under Stubbs for me. I actually think we would have done it more comfortably.

[Lancs Harp]

Stubbs arrived at a point in time when the Club needed a serious rebuild on the park and he succeeded in doing that. The current team/squad is unbalanced and in disarray with too many journey men footballers who simply arent good enough and one or two old the old guard getting a bit long in the tooth. A similar rebuild is needed. No idea if Stubbs could be as successful in rebuilding another Hibs team but he has succeeded in doing that in the past.

Its been a highly disappointing season to date, the Club is now at a crossroads and this next appointment has a lot riding on it. Time to get the feel good factor back again and get going in the right direction, it feels like all the good work of the last 4/5 seasons has been undone in very short period of time we cant afford another poor Managerial selection.

Timing is pretty important here too, Hecky leaving this week at least gives us time to make a considered appointment, give that Manager a little time to assess the squad before the January window in which hopefully he will be supported. Despite the disappointments of the season so far we only 5 points behind Livi in 6th spot, I dont think there was much confidence under Hecky we could have made that gap up and got into the top half pre split but its game on again with a new manager in place with a bit of luck and sound judgement.

[Ozyhibby]

This is not making the case for Alan Stubbs to be the new Hibs manager. As much as I love him (and think he's a very good manager) I think appointing a manager who some Hibs fans have decided isn't good enough is never going to end well.

However, when talking about Stubbs, it's only right you look at the facts in an objective manner. People who say "he finished third behind Falkirk!!!!" are completely ignoring so much of the context that surrounds it.

Here are the facts of Alan Stubbs' time at Hibs.

1) He became Hibs manager on 24th June 2014 and arrived with a squad of just fourteen senior players:
- Paul Hanlon
- Ryan McGivern
- Fraser Nelson
- Jordon Forster
- Lewis Stevenson
- Scott Robertson
- Liam Craig
- Alex Harris
- Danny Handling
- Sam Stanton
- Owain Tudur Jones
- Paul Heffernan
- Ross Caldwell
- Jason Cummings



2) The general consensus of this board at the time was that he had a massive job in front of him, and there was little to no talk of winning the league. You can see this for yourself on the thread where his appointment was confirmed: https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?286083-Official-Site-Stubbs-Appointed-Head-Coach

3) His first season was easily the most difficult Scottish second tier that has ever been contested. Hibs, Hearts and Rangers in the second division of Scottish football was unthinkable, and will most likely never be repeated again. The bottleneck of the promotion system meant that one, if not two, of these teams were going to be stuck in the Championship for another season.

4) He outperformed expectations with Hibs finishing second that season. He also took us to the quarter final of the League Cup (losing on penalties to a high-flying Dundee United side) and the semi final of the Scottish Cup (a poor defeat against an average Falkirk side who were to become a thorn in his side). The play-off defeat to Rangers was a sore one to take. Again, though, the general consensus was not even close to "he needs to go" or "we should've been promoted": https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301162-Alan-Stubbs + https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301214-Honest-expectations-from-the-season-gone!

5) Rangers' defeat to Motherwell in the play-off meant that Stubbs was then faced with the second most difficult Scottish second tier in history. A resurgent Rangers under Warburton and a Peter Houston Falkirk side who picked up 70 points (one fewer than Lennon's Hibs did the season afterwards). Stubbs also was hindered by a Scott Allan transfer saga throughout the summer of 2015, although he still managed to do cracking business in bringing in John McGinn, Dylan McGeouch and Liam Henderson in the space of a fortnight in early August.

6) He had Hibs level with Rangers at Christmas and in the semi finals of the League Cup for good measure. We went seventeen games unbeaten between late August and late December, winning 15 of them. That is phenomenal going. Rangers eventually pulled away from us in the league, that was the price worth paying for League and Scottish Cup finals. Note: Alan Stubbs is the only manager in Hibs' history to reach both major finals in the same season.

7) Hibs played 54 games in 2015/16. Here's a breakdown of the top ten seasons by number of competitive games played:
1972/73: 55 games
2015/16: 54 games

1992/93: 53 games
2006/07: 53 games
1991/92: 52 games
1968/69: 51 games
1993/94: 51 games
1986/87: 49 games
1974/75: 49 games
2018/19: 49 games


8) His derby record was a fairly impressive P6 W2 D3 L1. He lost his first one and then started our nine in a row against Hearts, going five undefeated against them before he left.

9) His transfer recruitment was simply fantastic. Scott Allan, Dylan McGeouch, John McGinn, Dominique Malonga, Fraser Fyvie and Martin Boyle are the standouts, but he also turned signings that didn't exactly get us excited into very consistent players. David Gray, Darren McGregor, Marvin Bartley, Liam Fontaine and James Keatings coming to mind. Even rabbits out of the hat like Conrad Logan were pivotal to point number ten.

10) He was the manager when Hibs won the Scottish Cup for the first time in 114 years. He tactical out-thought Warburton that day and his players (especially his first ever signing, club captain David Gray) outfought Rangers.

7) He would have had two less games if he could have managed to finish above the mighty Falkirk in the league.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RoslinInstHibby]

not my 1st choice but would be more than happy if we got Stubbs back:agree:

[Green&White]

My fear around stubbsy is it could ruin how much of a legend he is to us if it goes badly. And I was on the fence about him because of this. But this thread has sold him to me again. Reminding me of how brilliant his recruitment and style of play was in an extremely testing period for our club.
Would be very pleased with his return of it happens.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

[Keith_M]

We know how badly you want the job Alan. Go speak to John and Taff and let us know


😌

[ads913]

This is a expansion on what i said in another thread and i am very great-full you did this as Stubbs should be considered .Loved those times ,loved the passion and the football .I think this will be teh best decision for hibs right now.

[Box 17]

11) He ditched us for Rotherham.

[Lancs Harp]

11) He ditched us for Rotherham.

Lets face it all Managers will either ditch us for another venture or get fired.

[ancient hibee]

If Stanton and Turnbull are top tier managers in the history of our club, Stubbs would be second tier.

He changed so many things for the better and brought us what nobody else managed for over a century.

I’ll give him a piggyback all the way to Leith if that’s what it takes.

I don’t think Pat would ever describe himself as a top tier manager and Stubbs would certainly rank above him.

[ABZHFC]

7) He would have had two less games if he could have managed to finish above the mighty Falkirk in the league.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He would have had considerably less games had he got knocked out of the League Cup and the Scottish Cup early on rather than reaching both finals!

[lord bunberry]

He would have had considerably less games had he got knocked out of the League Cup and the Scottish Cup early on rather than reaching both finals!
Exactly. People stubbornness to take the cup games into account when assessing that season is poor imo.

[easty]

Exactly. People stubbornness to take the cup games into account when assessing that season is poor imo.

Maybe, but it's probably also pretty stubborn to refuse to take into account his record in his last 2 jobs when considering him as a candidate now.

Rotherham - P14 W1 D3 L10 - Sacked after 140 days
St Mirren - P9 W2 D3 L4 - Sacked after 87 days

Stubbs is a legend, but his record since he left us is really piss poor.

[ABZHFC]

Exactly. People stubbornness to take the cup games into account when assessing that season is poor imo.

It's ridiculous, what would have revitalised our club more, a playoff semi-final victory over Falkirk (where we may well have not beaten Kilmarnock) or reaching finals in both of Scotland's major cup competitions and winning the bigger one of the two?

I completely respect people's opinion if they don't want to look 'backwards' and appoint him again, that's fine, but the Hibs fans who look for reasons to belittle his achievements as Hibs manager really do wind me up. He's a club legend, and I will not hear otherwise

[HendoDelivered]

he would need Doolan and Taff or its a no from me.

This.

[lord bunberry]

Maybe, but it's probably also pretty stubborn to refuse to take into account his record in his last 2 jobs when considering him as a candidate now.

Rotherham - P14 W1 D3 L10 - Sacked after 140 days
St Mirren - P9 W2 D3 L4 - Sacked after 87 days

Stubbs is a legend, but his record since he left us is really piss poor.
I’m not disputing his record since leaving, it’s a fair point to make.

[lord bunberry]

It's ridiculous, what would have revitalised our club more, a playoff semi-final victory over Falkirk (where we may well have not beaten Kilmarnock) or reaching finals in both of Scotland's major cup competitions and winning the bigger one of the two?

I completely respect people's opinion if they don't want to look 'backwards' and appoint him again, that's fine, but the Hibs fans who look for reasons to belittle his achievements as Hibs manager really do wind me up. He's a club legend, and I will not hear otherwise
I agree.

[hibeerealist]

this is not making the case for alan stubbs to be the new hibs manager. As much as i love him (and think he's a very good manager) i think appointing a manager who some hibs fans have decided isn't good enough is never going to end well.

However, when talking about stubbs, it's only right you look at the facts in an objective manner. People who say "he finished third behind falkirk!!!!" are completely ignoring so much of the context that surrounds it.

Here are the facts of alan stubbs' time at hibs.

1) he became hibs manager on 24th june 2014 and arrived with a squad of just fourteen senior players:
- paul hanlon
- ryan mcgivern
- fraser nelson
- jordon forster
- lewis stevenson
- scott robertson
- liam craig
- alex harris
- danny handling
- sam stanton
- owain tudur jones
- paul heffernan
- ross caldwell
- jason cummings



2) the general consensus of this board at the time was that he had a massive job in front of him, and there was little to no talk of winning the league. You can see this for yourself on the thread where his appointment was confirmed: https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?286083-official-site-stubbs-appointed-head-coach

3) his first season was easily the most difficult scottish second tier that has ever been contested. Hibs, hearts and rangers in the second division of scottish football was unthinkable, and will most likely never be repeated again. The bottleneck of the promotion system meant that one, if not two, of these teams were going to be stuck in the championship for another season.

4) he outperformed expectations with hibs finishing second that season. He also took us to the quarter final of the league cup (losing on penalties to a high-flying dundee united side) and the semi final of the scottish cup (a poor defeat against an average falkirk side who were to become a thorn in his side). The play-off defeat to rangers was a sore one to take. Again, though, the general consensus was not even close to "he needs to go" or "we should've been promoted": https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301162-alan-stubbs + https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301214-honest-expectations-from-the-season-gone!

5) rangers' defeat to motherwell in the play-off meant that stubbs was then faced with the second most difficult scottish second tier in history. A resurgent rangers under warburton and a peter houston falkirk side who picked up 70 points (one fewer than lennon's hibs did the season afterwards). Stubbs also was hindered by a scott allan transfer saga throughout the summer of 2015, although he still managed to do cracking business in bringing in john mcginn, dylan mcgeouch and liam henderson in the space of a fortnight in early august.

6) he had hibs level with rangers at christmas and in the semi finals of the league cup for good measure. We went seventeen games unbeaten between late august and late december, winning 15 of them. That is phenomenal going. Rangers eventually pulled away from us in the league, that was the price worth paying for league and scottish cup finals. Note: Alan stubbs is the only manager in hibs' history to reach both major finals in the same season.

7) hibs played 54 games in 2015/16. Here's a breakdown of the top ten seasons by number of competitive games played:
1972/73: 55 games
2015/16: 54 games

1992/93: 53 games
2006/07: 53 games
1991/92: 52 games
1968/69: 51 games
1993/94: 51 games
1986/87: 49 games
1974/75: 49 games
2018/19: 49 games


8) his derby record was a fairly impressive p6 w2 d3 l1. He lost his first one and then started our nine in a row against hearts, going five undefeated against them before he left.

9) his transfer recruitment was simply fantastic. Scott allan, dylan mcgeouch, john mcginn, dominique malonga, fraser fyvie and martin boyle are the standouts, but he also turned signings that didn't exactly get us excited into very consistent players. David gray, darren mcgregor, marvin bartley, liam fontaine and james keatings coming to mind. Even rabbits out of the hat like conrad logan were pivotal to point number ten.

10) he was the manager when hibs won the scottish cup for the first time in 114 years. He tactical out-thought warburton that day and his players (especially his first ever signing, club captain david gray) outfought rangers.

good post.

[King conrad]

Won the Scottish cup and came within a whisker of a cup double. Some terrific signings,Attacked the bigger clubs and played good football. What's not to like? can we just bring him back please.

[CathroMustStay]

This is not making the case for Alan Stubbs to be the new Hibs manager. As much as I love him (and think he's a very good manager) I think appointing a manager who some Hibs fans have decided isn't good enough is never going to end well.

However, when talking about Stubbs, it's only right you look at the facts in an objective manner. People who say "he finished third behind Falkirk!!!!" are completely ignoring so much of the context that surrounds it.

Here are the facts of Alan Stubbs' time at Hibs.

1) He became Hibs manager on 24th June 2014 and arrived with a squad of just fourteen senior players:
- Paul Hanlon
- Ryan McGivern
- Fraser Nelson
- Jordon Forster
- Lewis Stevenson
- Scott Robertson
- Liam Craig
- Alex Harris
- Danny Handling
- Sam Stanton
- Owain Tudur Jones
- Paul Heffernan
- Ross Caldwell
- Jason Cummings



2) The general consensus of this board at the time was that he had a massive job in front of him, and there was little to no talk of winning the league. You can see this for yourself on the thread where his appointment was confirmed: https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?286083-Official-Site-Stubbs-Appointed-Head-Coach

3) His first season was easily the most difficult Scottish second tier that has ever been contested. Hibs, Hearts and Rangers in the second division of Scottish football was unthinkable, and will most likely never be repeated again. The bottleneck of the promotion system meant that one, if not two, of these teams were going to be stuck in the Championship for another season.

4) He outperformed expectations with Hibs finishing second that season. He also took us to the quarter final of the League Cup (losing on penalties to a high-flying Dundee United side) and the semi final of the Scottish Cup (a poor defeat against an average Falkirk side who were to become a thorn in his side). The play-off defeat to Rangers was a sore one to take. Again, though, the general consensus was not even close to "he needs to go" or "we should've been promoted": https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301162-Alan-Stubbs + https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301214-Honest-expectations-from-the-season-gone!

5) Rangers' defeat to Motherwell in the play-off meant that Stubbs was then faced with the second most difficult Scottish second tier in history. A resurgent Rangers under Warburton and a Peter Houston Falkirk side who picked up 70 points (one fewer than Lennon's Hibs did the season afterwards). Stubbs also was hindered by a Scott Allan transfer saga throughout the summer of 2015, although he still managed to do cracking business in bringing in John McGinn, Dylan McGeouch and Liam Henderson in the space of a fortnight in early August.

6) He had Hibs level with Rangers at Christmas and in the semi finals of the League Cup for good measure. We went seventeen games unbeaten between late August and late December, winning 15 of them. That is phenomenal going. Rangers eventually pulled away from us in the league, that was the price worth paying for League and Scottish Cup finals. Note: Alan Stubbs is the only manager in Hibs' history to reach both major finals in the same season.

7) Hibs played 54 games in 2015/16. Here's a breakdown of the top ten seasons by number of competitive games played:
1972/73: 55 games
2015/16: 54 games

1992/93: 53 games
2006/07: 53 games
1991/92: 52 games
1968/69: 51 games
1993/94: 51 games
1986/87: 49 games
1974/75: 49 games
2018/19: 49 games


8) His derby record was a fairly impressive P6 W2 D3 L1. He lost his first one and then started our nine in a row against Hearts, going five undefeated against them before he left.

9) His transfer recruitment was simply fantastic. Scott Allan, Dylan McGeouch, John McGinn, Dominique Malonga, Fraser Fyvie and Martin Boyle are the standouts, but he also turned signings that didn't exactly get us excited into very consistent players. David Gray, Darren McGregor, Marvin Bartley, Liam Fontaine and James Keatings coming to mind. Even rabbits out of the hat like Conrad Logan were pivotal to point number ten.

10) He was the manager when Hibs won the Scottish Cup for the first time in 114 years. He tactical out-thought Warburton that day and his players (especially his first ever signing, club captain David Gray) outfought Rangers.

It clearly is your case for making Stubbs manager.

If that wasn't the case, you would have attempted to be slightly objective in actually stating negative points within your 1-10.

[The_Exile]

I'll never forget the absolute lesson we gave Rangers at ER in that 4-0 game. From back to front we were 10/10.

If it is to be Stubbs I'd only feel it would work if he had Doolan and the rest of his coaching staff.

[Helensburghhibs]

11) He ditched us for Rotherham.

I'm happy for our managers to be headhunted by other clubs.eams they have been successful normally.

[superfurryhibby]

It clearly is your case for making Stubbs manager.

If that wasn't the case, you would have attempted to be slightly objective in actually stating negative points within your 1-10.

Why don’t you state your views, just out of interest and for objectivity’s sake? .

Stubbs would do for me. Cup winning manager, played very good football and signed exciting players.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Maybe, but it's probably also pretty stubborn to refuse to take into account his record in his last 2 jobs when considering him as a candidate now.

Rotherham - P14 W1 D3 L10 - Sacked after 140 days
St Mirren - P9 W2 D3 L4 - Sacked after 87 days

Stubbs is a legend, but his record since he left us is really piss poor.

Again though, isn't some context required?

Rotherham are traditionally a third tier club in English football. They bounce between the second and fourth tiers in their good/bad years, but their level is typically League One. Having won the Play-offs on penalties in 2014, they finished 21st in both seasons in the Championship before Stubbs arrived, one place above the relegation zone.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Rotherham_United_F.C._seasons#/media/File:RotherhamUnitedFC_League_Performance.svg)

If you want to question Stubbs' judgment for taking the job, I'd completely agree. It was an extremely risky one to take and was always likely to end badly. They are a tiny club in the Championship, relatively speaking, and would be doing well to survive every season they're there. The English equivalent of Hamilton Accies, for example.

But in terms of Stubbs' record there, I don't think it's particularly much worse than most managers would've done. He also, in those 140 days, signed Will Vaulks, who has since gone on to Wales international caps and been sold to Cardiff for a club record fee. Again, demonstrating Stubbs' eye for a player.

Onto St Mirren, again I wouldn't say that the top tier of Scottish football is their natural home. A bit of a yo-yo club, who bounce between the first and second tiers. I'd say this graph (akin to Rotherham's) proves my point quite well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:St_Mirren_FC_League_Performance.svg

His signings at St Mirren? Not good. I do think not having Doolan and Taff with him hindered him, so if he were at Hibs again, I'd want them back too. I think St Mirren's board did push the panic button too quickly.

I certainly think, in conclusion, his time at Rotherham and St Mirren wasn't successful, but it doesn't counterweight the amount of success he had at Hibs.

[Keith_M]

I agree with most of the positive points put by the OP.

The biggest negative was that, despite a good record against the larger sides, he often had trouble beating the smaller teams. Although, now we can't beat anybody, so maybe it's not such a big deal.

[Still Smiling]

Love the guy but no plan B, if it had not been for winning the cup in 2016 I think he would have been sacked! We could not beat Falkirk!

[Allant1981]

Why don’t you state your views, just out of interest and for objectivity’s sake? .

Stubbs would do for me. Cup winning manager, played very good football and signed exciting players.

He also had his sides playing garbage and struggling to beat smaller teams though

[CloudSquall]

A lot of good points, however I admit I was one that wanted him gone following the play off defeat, cup win or no cup win.

For me it was unacceptable to finish behind Falkirk and then fail to beat them over two legs.

I wouldn't be adverse to seeing him given a deal to the end of the season to see how things go, but he wouldn't be my top choice.

[snedzuk]

The Scottish Cup win alone puts Stubbs up there with Dan McMichael should never have left

100% convinced he would have got us promotion in that third season without a The Rangers or Hearts


This season, we'd be better off with Dan McMichael.

However, if Alan Stubbs gets appointed, ill be quite happy to buy next seasons season tickets now and I cant say that about many of the other names in the frame.

[Chefki Kuqi]

I’d love to be belting out Stubbsy, Stubbsy from the stands again, but I have my concerns. His record since Hibs is dreadful, Rotherham is obviously a tough gig and he didn’t get much of a chance at St Mirren (where his signing policy was fairly similar to what Heck did to us). Fair enough, but I would want our next manager to have tried to rectify that situation, but AFAIK he’s been a BT Sport pundit since, a gig no longer available (albeit he did signal interest after Lennon when BT Sport still did SPL).

I’d like to see him return and work out more than any other option available to us, but without his staff and having done little in the years since he left I think it risks ruining his reputation here. I would be far more comfortable with it had he been trying to cut his teeth since, no matter the level.

Having said that I didn’t like seeing him ignored for the job last time around and to hear he wants it again, well he’s willing to put his reputation on the line and that has to be respected. There is a temptation to brush aside any ambiguity and just hire him and let the cards land where they will, certainly if other options aren’t particularly appealing.

[StirlingHibee]

I would be happy to have him back!

[Hibs1969]

What stands out for me is the overall quality of the players Stubbs brought in. With the exception of Hanlon and Stevenson who he inherited, he brought in some outstanding players including McGinn, Boyle, McGregor, Allan, Gray and Stokes and some very good players in Fontaine, Fyvie, McGeouch, Bartley, Malonga and others.

In the space of a month Stubbs brought in a better group of players than Heckingbottom managed in a full transfer window and for me that has what has ultimately cost him his job. Not only was his recruitment shocking, he compounded it by releasing both Bartley and Milligan when Stevie Wonder could see that we would have a soft core without one or both of them playing in our team. And let’s not forget that Lennon had already lined up Allan for him before he left the club so he can’t even claim credit for that.

[B.H.F.C]

Exactly. People stubbornness to take the cup games into account when assessing that season is poor imo.

I’ll start by saying I would take him back, for the remainder of the season initially.

But I don’t think this comment is fair really. We’d dropped plenty of costly points long before the cup games in 2016 kicked in. We started that season with a defeat to Dumbarton. Bloody Dumbarton! We gave ourselves too much to do by not starting well in his second season. We went on a hell of a run just to get ourselves back in contention but it was always going to be difficult to maintain that.

Overall I think the good outweighs the bad but there seems to be an excuse for every bad thing that happened under Stubbs because of the legend he now is.

[HibeeHibernian4]

I’ll start by saying I would take him back, for the remainder of the season initially.

But I don’t think this comment is fair really. We’d dropped plenty of costly points long before the cup games in 2016 kicked in. We started that season with a defeat to Dumbarton. Bloody Dumbarton! We gave ourselves too much to do by not starting well in his second season. We went on a hell of a run just to get ourselves back in contention but it was always going to be difficult to maintain that.

Overall I think the good outweighs the bad but there seems to be an excuse for every bad thing that happened under Stubbs because of the legend he now is.

I don't think it's excusing it, it's contextualising it. Do you remember the circumstances surrounding that Dumbarton game?

It was right at the height of the Scott Allan transfer saga. He'd handed in a transfer request and was looking likely to leave Hibs, quite possibly for Ibrox despite the club's insistence we wouldn't be selling to them. Tensions were incredibly high in the stands that day, there were at least two Hibs-on-Hibs arguments in the away end. Some Hibs fans still supported Allan, some thought he was a rat and wanted him to GTF.

I'm not saying that means we shouldn't have won there, but it's a darn sight harder to do so when your star player is causing havoc.

What's more, while you can call those points "costly", we didn't let Rangers run away from us after a fantastic September-December period.

Malonga's late winner at home to Queens on the 19th December meant that us and Rangers were deadlocked on 41 points each after 17 games: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35078910

[worcesterhibby]

If we could get the whole Taff, Doolan and Stubbs team back together I think ti could be great.

[Craigmount Hibs]

This is not making the case for Alan Stubbs to be the new Hibs manager. As much as I love him (and think he's a very good manager) I think appointing a manager who some Hibs fans have decided isn't good enough is never going to end well.

However, when talking about Stubbs, it's only right you look at the facts in an objective manner. People who say "he finished third behind Falkirk!!!!" are completely ignoring so much of the context that surrounds it.

Here are the facts of Alan Stubbs' time at Hibs.

1) He became Hibs manager on 24th June 2014 and arrived with a squad of just fourteen senior players:
- Paul Hanlon
- Ryan McGivern
- Fraser Nelson
- Jordon Forster
- Lewis Stevenson
- Scott Robertson
- Liam Craig
- Alex Harris
- Danny Handling
- Sam Stanton
- Owain Tudur Jones
- Paul Heffernan
- Ross Caldwell
- Jason Cummings



2) The general consensus of this board at the time was that he had a massive job in front of him, and there was little to no talk of winning the league. You can see this for yourself on the thread where his appointment was confirmed: https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?286083-Official-Site-Stubbs-Appointed-Head-Coach

3) His first season was easily the most difficult Scottish second tier that has ever been contested. Hibs, Hearts and Rangers in the second division of Scottish football was unthinkable, and will most likely never be repeated again. The bottleneck of the promotion system meant that one, if not two, of these teams were going to be stuck in the Championship for another season.

4) He outperformed expectations with Hibs finishing second that season. He also took us to the quarter final of the League Cup (losing on penalties to a high-flying Dundee United side) and the semi final of the Scottish Cup (a poor defeat against an average Falkirk side who were to become a thorn in his side). The play-off defeat to Rangers was a sore one to take. Again, though, the general consensus was not even close to "he needs to go" or "we should've been promoted": https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301162-Alan-Stubbs + https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301214-Honest-expectations-from-the-season-gone!

5) Rangers' defeat to Motherwell in the play-off meant that Stubbs was then faced with the second most difficult Scottish second tier in history. A resurgent Rangers under Warburton and a Peter Houston Falkirk side who picked up 70 points (one fewer than Lennon's Hibs did the season afterwards). Stubbs also was hindered by a Scott Allan transfer saga throughout the summer of 2015, although he still managed to do cracking business in bringing in John McGinn, Dylan McGeouch and Liam Henderson in the space of a fortnight in early August.

6) He had Hibs level with Rangers at Christmas and in the semi finals of the League Cup for good measure. We went seventeen games unbeaten between late August and late December, winning 15 of them. That is phenomenal going. Rangers eventually pulled away from us in the league, that was the price worth paying for League and Scottish Cup finals. Note: Alan Stubbs is the only manager in Hibs' history to reach both major finals in the same season.

7) Hibs played 54 games in 2015/16. Here's a breakdown of the top ten seasons by number of competitive games played:
1972/73: 55 games
2015/16: 54 games

1992/93: 53 games
2006/07: 53 games
1991/92: 52 games
1968/69: 51 games
1993/94: 51 games
1986/87: 49 games
1974/75: 49 games
2018/19: 49 games


8) His derby record was a fairly impressive P6 W2 D3 L1. He lost his first one and then started our nine in a row against Hearts, going five undefeated against them before he left.

9) His transfer recruitment was simply fantastic. Scott Allan, Dylan McGeouch, John McGinn, Dominique Malonga, Fraser Fyvie and Martin Boyle are the standouts, but he also turned signings that didn't exactly get us excited into very consistent players. David Gray, Darren McGregor, Marvin Bartley, Liam Fontaine and James Keatings coming to mind. Even rabbits out of the hat like Conrad Logan were pivotal to point number ten.

10) He was the manager when Hibs won the Scottish Cup for the first time in 114 years. He tactical out-thought Warburton that day and his players (especially his first ever signing, club captain David Gray) outfought Rangers.

Good post.

What position did Fraser Nelson play, as I don't remember him at all?

[wookie70]

I'd like him to remain a legend as the next manager is on a hiding to nothing in many ways and half this board seemed to already have it in for Stubbs. I can see another 6 month manager and hounded out unfortunately and it wouldn't surprise me if it is a Butcher type appointment - that would be Robinson for me

[B.H.F.C]

I don't think it's excusing it, it's contextualising it. Do you remember the circumstances surrounding that Dumbarton game?

It was right at the height of the Scott Allan transfer saga. He'd handed in a transfer request and was looking likely to leave Hibs, quite possibly for Ibrox despite the club's insistence we wouldn't be selling to them. Tensions were incredibly high in the stands that day, there were at least two Hibs-on-Hibs arguments in the away end. Some Hibs fans still supported Allan, some thought he was a rat and wanted him to GTF.

I'm not saying that means we shouldn't have won there, but it's a darn sight harder to do so when your star player is causing havoc.

What's more, while you can call those points "costly", we didn't let Rangers run away from us after a fantastic September-December period.

Malonga's late winner at home to Queens on the 19th December meant that us and Rangers were deadlocked on 41 points each after 17 games: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35078910

You’re missing part of my point. I know that we went to Ibrox pretty much neck in neck with them on Boxing Day. However, it had already taken such an effort, and such a run of form to claw them back, that sustaining that was near on impossible.

I remember that day at Dumbarton well, yep. And quite frankly it doesn’t matter, Hibs lost to a part time Dumbarton. As we did in February when the Scott Allan stuff was long gone.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Good post.

What position did Fraser Nelson play, as I don't remember him at all?

What I've done is confused Michael Nelson (the Hibs centre half) with Fraser Nelson (editor of the Spectator who was in the news recently for letting Rod Liddle write his vile, racist columns). Apologies. :greengrin

[ABZHFC]

What I've done is confused Michael Nelson (the Hibs centre half) with Fraser Nelson (editor of the Spectator who was in the news recently for letting Rod Liddle write his vile, racist columns). Apologies. :greengrin

I assume Fraser Nelson defended him better than his namesake defended our goal

[WhileTheChief..]

If Stanton and Turnbull are top tier managers in the history of our club, Stubbs would be second tier.

He changed so many things for the better and brought us what nobody else managed for over a century.

I’ll give him a piggyback all the way to Leith if that’s what it takes.

Stanton a top tier manager?

Am I missing something here? I thought he was as bad as John Blackley and Bertie Auld?

[brog]

A lot of good points, however I admit I was one that wanted him gone following the play off defeat, cup win or no cup win.

For me it was unacceptable to finish behind Falkirk and then fail to beat them over two legs.

I wouldn't be adverse to seeing him given a deal to the end of the season to see how things go, but he wouldn't be my top choice.

What was unacceptable was Alan Muir denying us the most blatant penalty I've seen in 60 years of watching Hibs.

[eezyrider]

Stubbsy's signing at St Mirren don't exactly give much confidence.


https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/alan-stubbs-slams-st-mirren-16318244

[FRes Hibbie]

If it were the entire band back together I’d be well up for it. I don’t think Stubbs on his own would work and it would be a shame to ruin the memories.

[shetlandhibee]

its STUBBS for mer all the way 3 years only 3 years ago he won the SCOTTISH CUP with hibs what numerous managers over 114 years couldnt do, played atractive football and had an eye for a player ,,who was the first player he signed? no brainer for me:agree::thumbsup:

[Northernhibee]

Stanton a top tier manager?

Am I missing something here? I thought he was as bad as John Blackley and Bertie Auld?

I thought more in terms of “club legend status” with my post tbh.

[tamig]

I don’t think Pat would ever describe himself as a top tier manager and Stubbs would certainly rank above him.

Indeed. Did we not almost go down under him? Free buses to Boghead for a relegation battle I seem to recall.

[J-C]

Stubbs didn't just ditch us for Rotherham, there was external family reasons why he had to move back nearer the family home, most folk know the reasons and I'm not going into detail about it, Leeann tried to talk him out of going and wanted him to stay, that shows he was still wanted here.

Our squad needs another overhaul and Stubbs worked well with the recruitment team and had a great eye for a player, his record before against premier clubs was very good but he needs Doolan beside him as he was the man behind the coaching and he got what Hibs w.as about

[RoYO!]

Come home stubbsy!

[Nicho87]

Love the guy but no plan B, if it had not been for winning the cup in 2016 I think he would have been sacked! We could not beat Falkirk!

Rubbish.

Stubbs played either the diamond or a 3/5/2 every player knew their job regardless of formation. See cup final.

Lots more plans than the ex manager.

Stubbs in! Should have been hired when hecky got the gig, imo.

[brog]

Love the guy but no plan B, if it had not been for winning the cup in 2016 I think he would have been sacked! We could not beat Falkirk!

Apart from when we went to Plan B when 2-1 down on 21/5/16!!!

[HibeeHibernian4]

Apart from when we went to Plan B when 2-1 down on 21/5/16!!!

No plan B when we were 2-0 down at Tynecastle either.

[Perd Hapley]

I could see it. It could happen. I would like it.

[Waxy]

If he wants it we should give him it. I reckon we owe him that.

[ABZHFC]

I'm in, come on the ****ing Stubbsy!

[BoomtownHibees]

If he wants it we should give him it. I reckon we owe him that.

I wouldn’t mind him but I don’t think we owe him anything, especially no the managers job just because he wants it

[heretoday]

Get Stubbsy then but it'll end in tears. Also he will have to be prepared for some searching questions as to why he left for Rotherham.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Get Stubbsy then but it'll end in tears. Also he will have to be prepared for some searching questions as to why he left for Rotherham.

Ended in tears last time right enough. Tears of joy on my knees on the Hampden turf.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Don't think he'd be back?? Still the same board that dealt with his, erm, social life is it not?

[hibsbollah]

Good OP.

[Sammy7nil]

But, but, but he never got Hibs promoted.

Good post. Too many seem to see it in black and white of winning promotion or not.

Correct or that he was sacked from his next two jobs it is a no from me.

[Robinho08]

When you put it like that, you have me foaming at the mouth. 🤤

[Joe6-2]

Reading that I’d be happy if he came back

[My old man]

This is not making the case for Alan Stubbs to be the new Hibs manager. As much as I love him (and think he's a very good manager) I think appointing a manager who some Hibs fans have decided isn't good enough is never going to end well.

However, when talking about Stubbs, it's only right you look at the facts in an objective manner. People who say "he finished third behind Falkirk!!!!" are completely ignoring so much of the context that surrounds it.

Here are the facts of Alan Stubbs' time at Hibs.

1) He became Hibs manager on 24th June 2014 and arrived with a squad of just fourteen senior players:
- Paul Hanlon
- Ryan McGivern
- Fraser Nelson
- Jordon Forster
- Lewis Stevenson
- Scott Robertson
- Liam Craig
- Alex Harris
- Danny Handling
- Sam Stanton
- Owain Tudur Jones
- Paul Heffernan
- Ross Caldwell
- Jason Cummings



2) The general consensus of this board at the time was that he had a massive job in front of him, and there was little to no talk of winning the league. You can see this for yourself on the thread where his appointment was confirmed: https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?286083-Official-Site-Stubbs-Appointed-Head-Coach

3) His first season was easily the most difficult Scottish second tier that has ever been contested. Hibs, Hearts and Rangers in the second division of Scottish football was unthinkable, and will most likely never be repeated again. The bottleneck of the promotion system meant that one, if not two, of these teams were going to be stuck in the Championship for another season.

4) He outperformed expectations with Hibs finishing second that season. He also took us to the quarter final of the League Cup (losing on penalties to a high-flying Dundee United side) and the semi final of the Scottish Cup (a poor defeat against an average Falkirk side who were to become a thorn in his side). The play-off defeat to Rangers was a sore one to take. Again, though, the general consensus was not even close to "he needs to go" or "we should've been promoted": https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301162-Alan-Stubbs + https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301214-Honest-expectations-from-the-season-gone!

5) Rangers' defeat to Motherwell in the play-off meant that Stubbs was then faced with the second most difficult Scottish second tier in history. A resurgent Rangers under Warburton and a Peter Houston Falkirk side who picked up 70 points (one fewer than Lennon's Hibs did the season afterwards). Stubbs also was hindered by a Scott Allan transfer saga throughout the summer of 2015, although he still managed to do cracking business in bringing in John McGinn, Dylan McGeouch and Liam Henderson in the space of a fortnight in early August.

6) He had Hibs level with Rangers at Christmas and in the semi finals of the League Cup for good measure. We went seventeen games unbeaten between late August and late December, winning 15 of them. That is phenomenal going. Rangers eventually pulled away from us in the league, that was the price worth paying for League and Scottish Cup finals. Note: Alan Stubbs is the only manager in Hibs' history to reach both major finals in the same season.

7) Hibs played 54 games in 2015/16. Here's a breakdown of the top ten seasons by number of competitive games played:
1972/73: 55 games
2015/16: 54 games

1992/93: 53 games
2006/07: 53 games
1991/92: 52 games
1968/69: 51 games
1993/94: 51 games
1986/87: 49 games
1974/75: 49 games
2018/19: 49 games


8) His derby record was a fairly impressive P6 W2 D3 L1. He lost his first one and then started our nine in a row against Hearts, going five undefeated against them before he left.

9) His transfer recruitment was simply fantastic. Scott Allan, Dylan McGeouch, John McGinn, Dominique Malonga, Fraser Fyvie and Martin Boyle are the standouts, but he also turned signings that didn't exactly get us excited into very consistent players. David Gray, Darren McGregor, Marvin Bartley, Liam Fontaine and James Keatings coming to mind. Even rabbits out of the hat like Conrad Logan were pivotal to point number ten.

10) He was the manager when Hibs won the Scottish Cup for the first time in 114 years. He tactical out-thought Warburton that day and his players (especially his first ever signing, club captain David Gray) outfought Rangers.


10/10 fantastic post

I for one think he’d bring the good times back

GGTTH

[007]

Get Stubbsy then but it'll end in tears. Also he will have to be prepared for some searching questions as to why he left for Rotherham.

He's already said more than once he regrets leaving. I forgive him.

I'm in the Stubbs in camp. Would be okay with Jack Ross too. Surprised nobody has started a poll yet.

[iwasthere1972]

That makes for good reading. Some great times under Stubbsy. I wouldn't be unhappy if he rejoined us but I have a feeling that the board will want to get a fresh face in. If only we had those players back on board or players with even half of their commitment. Everyone of them understood Hibs and what it meant to the fans.

[scooby]

This is not making the case for Alan Stubbs to be the new Hibs manager. As much as I love him (and think he's a very good manager) I think appointing a manager who some Hibs fans have decided isn't good enough is never going to end well.

However, when talking about Stubbs, it's only right you look at the facts in an objective manner. People who say "he finished third behind Falkirk!!!!" are completely ignoring so much of the context that surrounds it.

Here are the facts of Alan Stubbs' time at Hibs.

1) He became Hibs manager on 24th June 2014 and arrived with a squad of just fourteen senior players:
- Paul Hanlon
- Ryan McGivern
- Fraser Nelson
- Jordon Forster
- Lewis Stevenson
- Scott Robertson
- Liam Craig
- Alex Harris
- Danny Handling
- Sam Stanton
- Owain Tudur Jones
- Paul Heffernan
- Ross Caldwell
- Jason Cummings



2) The general consensus of this board at the time was that he had a massive job in front of him, and there was little to no talk of winning the league. You can see this for yourself on the thread where his appointment was confirmed: https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?286083-Official-Site-Stubbs-Appointed-Head-Coach

3) His first season was easily the most difficult Scottish second tier that has ever been contested. Hibs, Hearts and Rangers in the second division of Scottish football was unthinkable, and will most likely never be repeated again. The bottleneck of the promotion system meant that one, if not two, of these teams were going to be stuck in the Championship for another season.

4) He outperformed expectations with Hibs finishing second that season. He also took us to the quarter final of the League Cup (losing on penalties to a high-flying Dundee United side) and the semi final of the Scottish Cup (a poor defeat against an average Falkirk side who were to become a thorn in his side). The play-off defeat to Rangers was a sore one to take. Again, though, the general consensus was not even close to "he needs to go" or "we should've been promoted": https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301162-Alan-Stubbs + https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301214-Honest-expectations-from-the-season-gone!

5) Rangers' defeat to Motherwell in the play-off meant that Stubbs was then faced with the second most difficult Scottish second tier in history. A resurgent Rangers under Warburton and a Peter Houston Falkirk side who picked up 70 points (one fewer than Lennon's Hibs did the season afterwards). Stubbs also was hindered by a Scott Allan transfer saga throughout the summer of 2015, although he still managed to do cracking business in bringing in John McGinn, Dylan McGeouch and Liam Henderson in the space of a fortnight in early August.

6) He had Hibs level with Rangers at Christmas and in the semi finals of the League Cup for good measure. We went seventeen games unbeaten between late August and late December, winning 15 of them. That is phenomenal going. Rangers eventually pulled away from us in the league, that was the price worth paying for League and Scottish Cup finals. Note: Alan Stubbs is the only manager in Hibs' history to reach both major finals in the same season.

7) Hibs played 54 games in 2015/16. Here's a breakdown of the top ten seasons by number of competitive games played:
1972/73: 55 games
2015/16: 54 games

1992/93: 53 games
2006/07: 53 games
1991/92: 52 games
1968/69: 51 games
1993/94: 51 games
1986/87: 49 games
1974/75: 49 games
2018/19: 49 games


8) His derby record was a fairly impressive P6 W2 D3 L1. He lost his first one and then started our nine in a row against Hearts, going five undefeated against them before he left.

9) His transfer recruitment was simply fantastic. Scott Allan, Dylan McGeouch, John McGinn, Dominique Malonga, Fraser Fyvie and Martin Boyle are the standouts, but he also turned signings that didn't exactly get us excited into very consistent players. David Gray, Darren McGregor, Marvin Bartley, Liam Fontaine and James Keatings coming to mind. Even rabbits out of the hat like Conrad Logan were pivotal to point number ten.

10) He was the manager when Hibs won the Scottish Cup for the first time in 114 years. He tactical out-thought Warburton that day and his players (especially his first ever signing, club captain David Gray) outfought Rangers.

Great post, I'd have him back in a heartbeat.

[Andy74]

Not for me. Cup final was obviously exceptional but I certainly wasn’t feeling warm and fuzzy about the job he had done when leaving Falkirk the week before.

Some exceptional signings but also a lot of guff. He actually had an advantage in starting with virtually a free reign and not saddled with a squad he didn’t want.

There was also something a bit off after the cup win. Was a bit quick to criticise the fans on the pitch and generally gave the impression there was something stopping him fully enjoying the thing.

Would much prefer we went a different route.

[southern hibby]

Maybe I’m mistaken but did Hibs not get to the two cup finals in 1972 winning the league cup and getting humped in the Scottish. Though ( again not sure ) if the manager was the same person.

Can say though Stubbsy is the only manager ( I believe ) in Scottish history to get to the two cup finals in the same season from the lower divisions.

GGTTH

[madabouthibs]

I feel that getting Stubbsy back would be good for us, but only if he could bring in the same coaches he had before. Doolan and Big Taff formed a huge part of that management team, and they quite clearly got the Hibs thing in their blood and embraced the importance in those roles. This rubbed off on both the players and the supporters and, maybe not at the time, but looking back everyone enjoyed that whole era. I feel that if we're bringing Stubbs back, we need the whole coaching dream team.

[JeMeSouviens]

Maybe I’m mistaken but did Hibs not get to the two cup finals in 1972 winning the league cup and getting humped in the Scottish. Though ( again not sure ) if the manager was the same person.

Can say though Stubbsy is the only manager ( I believe ) in Scottish history to get to the two cup finals in the same season from the lower divisions.

GGTTH

Same calendar year but different seasons. Scottish cup 6-1 defeat in 71-72 and League cup 2-1 win in 72-73. Both v Celtc.

[iwasthere1972]

Same calendar year but different seasons. Scottish cup 6-1 defeat in 71-72 and League cup 2-1 win in 72-73. Both v Celtc.

I was at both. Only one of them I enjoyed. 😁

[shetlandhibee]

Ended in tears last time right enough. Tears of joy on my knees on the Hampden turf.
:top marks:not worth:agree: snap

[Hedlund12]

I feel that getting Stubbsy back would be good for us, but only if he could bring in the same coaches he had before. Doolan and Big Taff formed a huge part of that management team, and they quite clearly got the Hibs thing in their blood and embraced the importance in those roles. This rubbed off on both the players and the supporters and, maybe not at the time, but looking back everyone enjoyed that whole era. I feel that if we're bringing Stubbs back, we need the whole coaching dream team.

Totally agree with this post.
The 3 of them worked brilliantly together. I remember Taff on the touchline on a few occasions barking orders at the team. The team responded well and that management team really seemed to make the team/squad gel brilliantly.
It makes me smile when I hear interviews by SJM about his time at Hibs and his fond memories... Marvs leaving message to the Hibs fans also reflected how much the guys/squad bonded and how much he loved his time with us. Fonts is another one that springs to mind.
I also remember hearing interviews about fitness and also improvements in the teams diet! I'm sure a lot of this was down to Stubbs positive influence.. everything about the "dream team" felt great.
We had some very challenging times in the lower division... teams parked the bus and didn't play football against us. This was probably our downfall as we tried/liked to play football and that was evident when we played spl teams in cup ties.

Stubbs, Doolan and Taff were IMO great for Hibs and likewise we were great for them.

I had total mixed emotions at the Scottish cup parade. I was ecstatic at our SC win but this was tinged with a wee bit sadness. I knew by the actions/body language of AS that his time with us was up and I said as much to my son but I love him (and his sidekicks) for what they achieved.

[Cropley10]

Out of work manager who did badly in EC and even worse at St Mirren wants his job back at Hibs. They say ‘never go back’ for a reason.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Out of work manager who did badly in EC and even worse at St Mirren wants his job back at Hibs. They say ‘never go back’ for a reason.

It's a general life phrase, it's not a metric to appoint/not appoint a football manager. :rolleyes:

[Beefster]

Here’s another objective fact - there was an 18-pager calling for his head a month before we won the Cup because our results/performances were crap.

https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?309328-I-ll-do-it-then-STUBBS-OUT!

[Michael]

I feel that getting Stubbsy back would be good for us, but only if he could bring in the same coaches he had before. Doolan and Big Taff formed a huge part of that management team, and they quite clearly got the Hibs thing in their blood and embraced the importance in those roles. This rubbed off on both the players and the supporters and, maybe not at the time, but looking back everyone enjoyed that whole era. I feel that if we're bringing Stubbs back, we need the whole coaching dream team.

Let's get the old band back together.

[B.H.F.C]

Here’s another objective fact - there was an 18-pager calling for his head a month before we won the Cup because our results/performances were crap.

https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?309328-I-ll-do-it-then-STUBBS-OUT!

Some interesting reading there!

[Billy McKirdy]

First name that occurred to me was Stubbsy, on a par with Mowbray and Lenny

[Unseen work]

Here’s another objective fact - there was an 18-pager calling for his head a month before we won the Cup because our results/performances were crap.

https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?309328-I-ll-do-it-then-STUBBS-OUT!

That is absolutely mental when you now think some want him back when the vast majority felt so strongly.

I remember wanting him to leave as it’s unacceptable finishing 3rd and not achieving promotion, but il admit I can’t remember there being that much criticism.

The Scottish cup certainly papered over the cracks.

[jakedance]

OP makes a compelling argument.

Stubbs recruitment, especially given the shambles he inherited, was superb and his team played good football. I just want to enjoy it again.

[HibeeHibernian4]

That is absolutely mental when you now think some want him back when the vast majority felt so strongly.

I remember wanting him to leave as it’s unacceptable finishing 3rd and not achieving promotion, but il admit I can’t remember there being that much criticism.

The Scottish cup certainly papered over the cracks.

It shows to me that a lot of Hibs fans are extremely reactionary and are quickly proven wrong and shut up quickly.

[ABZHFC]

Here’s another objective fact - there was an 18-pager calling for his head a month before we won the Cup because our results/performances were crap.

https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?309328-I-ll-do-it-then-STUBBS-OUT!

All I can deduce from that is how stupidly quick to judgement a lot on here are

[GibbytheHibby2]

The fact that he brought in some great players is enough for me to give him a second chance

He also managed Jason Cummings well. He and his coaching team were always at Jason to focus and improve.

[Danderhall Hibs]

All I can deduce from that is how stupidly quick to judgement a lot on here are

A lot of the same old voices saying the same old things. Not got to the disengaged guys yet but it was hinted with the “slow death” stuff. That was only a few posts after I read Stubbs can’t change a game and that we should go for Jimmy Calderwood or Stuart McCall until the end of the season.

Quality stuff.

PS I’ve not checked to see if I posted yet so could be embarrassing for me if I’ve joined in. :hilarious

[Winston Ingram]

I think the original one of the worst I’ve seen on Hibs.net. What utter drivel.

What people continue to give credit to Stubbs was how he ‘turned it around’.

We were in the championship ffs against the likes of Cowdenbeath, Dumbarton and Alloa. We had the 2nd biggest budget in the league that year and we were completely out of the Championship race by October. We did narrowly finish above arguably the worst Sevco team in history, who then promptly knocked us out the playoffs and then Moshni and co went on to lose 7-1 to a rotten Motherwell side over 2 legs.

He had a good record in big games (not including Falkirk) but his record against the dross was really poor. While Hearts were spanking this crap by opening up their tight defences with the width of Walker and Nicholson, our manager decided we would play a narrow diamond which played right into the hands of everybody who came to ER and didn’t want to participate in a game of football which was pretty much everyone bar Hearts and Sevco. We failed to beat so many of these sides and we were absolutely fantastic at conceding late winners/equalisers from a set piece. Pretty much every team knew how to play against us and clearly felt confident of getting something.

In season 2, after our experience of watching how such a narrow midfield diamond formation labour to breakdown these double banked defences, where the opposition striker pretty acted as a holding midfielder, he ignored the ready made blueprint of width and pace on how to win that league handed to him by our neighbours and unbelievably stuck with the diamond again.

Not surprisingly, after doing the same thing and expecting different results, the same happened again the following season with us continuing to fail to break these teams down and conceding late goals from set pieces.

This time however, we managed to extend our involvement in the title race to February and then finished the season in our lowest league position in 50 years below the mighty Falkirk. Who also pumped us out the play offs which was no real shock as Houston had Stubbs worked out to a tee.

Nobody can deny Stubbs made good signings here and that he was great at getting us up for Derbies and games against Sevco but in the grand scheme of things he was 10 minutes from being an unmitigated disaster.

He was poor in the league and he’s been dreadful wherever else he’s been. Much as I’ll always be grateful to Stubbs for winning the Scottish Cup, this attempt from the OP to rewrite history is embarrassing.

[Beefster]

All I can deduce from that is how stupidly quick to judgement a lot on here are

I’ve just checked. At the time of the thread, we had lost five of our last seven Championship games, none of which were against Rangers. I’m not sure that, after two seasons in the Championship, that would count as ‘stupidly quick’.

[The Captain....]

Interesting OP.

I loved Stubbs when he was here but confess to wavering in the play off defeat to Falkirk. Was absolutely gutted coming home from that game...I felt so frustrated what I thought was a very good Hibs team couldn't get back up.

A couple of things that I also loved about Stubbs was his calmness. He seemed to put things in perspective football wise and players played with a freedom as a result.

He also built a very strong backroom team who were loved by players and fans alike. Not often the whole coaching staff is lauded in that way.

I'm not an advocate of bringing him back tho. I think he was the right man at the right time for Hibs then but not now. Expectations are totally different and there is an impatience for quick results atm. I hope the new man is able to build a similar rapport with the supporters that Stubbs and his backroom team did..he had most of the fans pulling in the same direction very quickly...a quality we sorely need now.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

[ads913]

does anyone know doolans current status.

[J-C]

does anyone know doolans current status.

Assistant head coach at Accrington

[HibeeHibernian4]

Such hate-filled anger from Winston Ingram there (not going to dignify quoting it all as it’s just paragraph after paragraph of fictional pish).

[JeMeSouviens]

I fear we'd end up with what the Italians call minestra riscaldata. He went out on the ultimate high, let's leave it there.

[brog]

I think the original one of the worst I’ve seen on Hibs.net. What utter drivel.

What people continue to give credit to Stubbs was how he ‘turned it around’.

We were in the championship ffs against the likes of Cowdenbeath, Dumbarton and Alloa. We had the 2nd biggest budget in the league that year and we were completely out of the Championship race by October. did narrowly finish above arguably the worst Sevco team in history, who then promptly knocked us out the playoffs and then Moshni and co went on to lose 7-1 to a rotten Motherwell side over 2 legs. We lost 4 of our 1st 5 games. This was understandable given Stubbs inherited a squad composed of luminaries such as Mickey Nelson, Tudor-Jones & not even a keeper. This was only the 3rd time in 50 years we had finished above Rangers. We lost the play off 2-1 to an offside goal. Rangers lost 6-1 on aggregate to Motherwell, if you can't get that fact right why should we trust anything else you say?

He had a good record in big games (not including Falkirk) but his record against the dross was really poor. While Hearts were spanking this crap by opening up their tight defences with the width of Walker and Nicholson, our manager decided we would play a narrow diamond which played right into the hands of everybody who came to ER and didn’t want to participate in a game of football which was pretty much everyone bar Hearts and Sevco. We failed to beat so many of these sides and we were absolutely fantastic at conceding late winners/equalisers from a set piece. Pretty much every team knew how to play against us and clearly felt confident of getting something.

In season 2, after our experience of watching how such a narrow midfield diamond formation labour to breakdown these double banked defences, where the opposition striker pretty acted as a holding midfielder, he ignored the ready made blueprint of width and pace on how to win that league handed to him by our neighbours and unbelievably stuck with the diamond again.

Not surprisingly, after doing the same thing and expecting different results, the same happened again the following season with us continuing to fail to break these teams down and conceding late goals from set pieces.

This time however, we managed to extend our involvement in the title race to February and then finished the season in our lowest league position in 50 years below the mighty Falkirk. Who also pumped us out the play offs which was no real shock as Houston had Stubbs worked out to a tee.
You've come out with this garbage before. The moment we were relegated we equalled our lowest league position for 50 years. 2 words, Alan Muir!

Nobody can deny Stubbs made good signings here and that he was great at getting us up for Derbies and games against Sevco but in the grand scheme of things he was 10 minutes from being an unmitigated disaster.

He was poor in the league and he’s been dreadful wherever else he’s been. Much as I’ll always be grateful to Stubbs for winning the Scottish Cup, this attempt from the OP to rewrite history is embarrassing. In both of Stubbs' 2 seasons in charge we scored 1 league point less than when we were promoted under NL. The Rangers & Hearts were not in the league when we were promoted but NL actually won less league games than Stubbs!

I have never read a more venomous, or more inaccurate post on this Board. I don't know what your problem is with Stubbs but your obsession with decrying his record with Hibs is concerning. In the interests of brevity I won't respond to everything above, my few comments are in bold. There's only one person rewriting history here & it's not the OP!

[Vault Boy]

Plenty of credible arguments on both side of the fence on this one IMO.

Just want to applaud the OP for what I think is a really good post. Makes you think, isn't filled with emotional rhetoric and the title is perfectly fitting.

[ads913]

yeah good thread much better than the regurgitated thread stubbs out.

[scooby]

This is not making the case for Alan Stubbs to be the new Hibs manager. As much as I love him (and think he's a very good manager) I think appointing a manager who some Hibs fans have decided isn't good enough is never going to end well.

However, when talking about Stubbs, it's only right you look at the facts in an objective manner. People who say "he finished third behind Falkirk!!!!" are completely ignoring so much of the context that surrounds it.

Here are the facts of Alan Stubbs' time at Hibs.

1) He became Hibs manager on 24th June 2014 and arrived with a squad of just fourteen senior players:
- Paul Hanlon
- Ryan McGivern
- Fraser Nelson
- Jordon Forster
- Lewis Stevenson
- Scott Robertson
- Liam Craig
- Alex Harris
- Danny Handling
- Sam Stanton
- Owain Tudur Jones
- Paul Heffernan
- Ross Caldwell
- Jason Cummings



2) The general consensus of this board at the time was that he had a massive job in front of him, and there was little to no talk of winning the league. You can see this for yourself on the thread where his appointment was confirmed: https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?286083-Official-Site-Stubbs-Appointed-Head-Coach

3) His first season was easily the most difficult Scottish second tier that has ever been contested. Hibs, Hearts and Rangers in the second division of Scottish football was unthinkable, and will most likely never be repeated again. The bottleneck of the promotion system meant that one, if not two, of these teams were going to be stuck in the Championship for another season.

4) He outperformed expectations with Hibs finishing second that season. He also took us to the quarter final of the League Cup (losing on penalties to a high-flying Dundee United side) and the semi final of the Scottish Cup (a poor defeat against an average Falkirk side who were to become a thorn in his side). The play-off defeat to Rangers was a sore one to take. Again, though, the general consensus was not even close to "he needs to go" or "we should've been promoted": https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301162-Alan-Stubbs + https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?301214-Honest-expectations-from-the-season-gone!

5) Rangers' defeat to Motherwell in the play-off meant that Stubbs was then faced with the second most difficult Scottish second tier in history. A resurgent Rangers under Warburton and a Peter Houston Falkirk side who picked up 70 points (one fewer than Lennon's Hibs did the season afterwards). Stubbs also was hindered by a Scott Allan transfer saga throughout the summer of 2015, although he still managed to do cracking business in bringing in John McGinn, Dylan McGeouch and Liam Henderson in the space of a fortnight in early August.

6) He had Hibs level with Rangers at Christmas and in the semi finals of the League Cup for good measure. We went seventeen games unbeaten between late August and late December, winning 15 of them. That is phenomenal going. Rangers eventually pulled away from us in the league, that was the price worth paying for League and Scottish Cup finals. Note: Alan Stubbs is the only manager in Hibs' history to reach both major finals in the same season.

7) Hibs played 54 games in 2015/16. Here's a breakdown of the top ten seasons by number of competitive games played:
1972/73: 55 games
2015/16: 54 games

1992/93: 53 games
2006/07: 53 games
1991/92: 52 games
1968/69: 51 games
1993/94: 51 games
1986/87: 49 games
1974/75: 49 games
2018/19: 49 games


8) His derby record was a fairly impressive P6 W2 D3 L1. He lost his first one and then started our nine in a row against Hearts, going five undefeated against them before he left.

9) His transfer recruitment was simply fantastic. Scott Allan, Dylan McGeouch, John McGinn, Dominique Malonga, Fraser Fyvie and Martin Boyle are the standouts, but he also turned signings that didn't exactly get us excited into very consistent players. David Gray, Darren McGregor, Marvin Bartley, Liam Fontaine and James Keatings coming to mind. Even rabbits out of the hat like Conrad Logan were pivotal to point number ten.

10) He was the manager when Hibs won the Scottish Cup for the first time in 114 years. He tactical out-thought Warburton that day and his players (especially his first ever signing, club captain David Gray) outfought Rangers.

Really interesting post, I'd love to have Stubbs, Doolan and Taff back, but would hate for it to end in tears and sour the great memories.

[ABZHFC]

I think the original one of the worst I’ve seen on Hibs.net. What utter drivel.

What people continue to give credit to Stubbs was how he ‘turned it around’.

We were in the championship ffs against the likes of Cowdenbeath, Dumbarton and Alloa. We had the 2nd biggest budget in the league that year and we were completely out of the Championship race by October. We did narrowly finish above arguably the worst Sevco team in history, who then promptly knocked us out the playoffs and then Moshni and co went on to lose 7-1 to a rotten Motherwell side over 2 legs.

He had a good record in big games (not including Falkirk) but his record against the dross was really poor. While Hearts were spanking this crap by opening up their tight defences with the width of Walker and Nicholson, our manager decided we would play a narrow diamond which played right into the hands of everybody who came to ER and didn’t want to participate in a game of football which was pretty much everyone bar Hearts and Sevco. We failed to beat so many of these sides and we were absolutely fantastic at conceding late winners/equalisers from a set piece. Pretty much every team knew how to play against us and clearly felt confident of getting something.

In season 2, after our experience of watching how such a narrow midfield diamond formation labour to breakdown these double banked defences, where the opposition striker pretty acted as a holding midfielder, he ignored the ready made blueprint of width and pace on how to win that league handed to him by our neighbours and unbelievably stuck with the diamond again.

Not surprisingly, after doing the same thing and expecting different results, the same happened again the following season with us continuing to fail to break these teams down and conceding late goals from set pieces.

This time however, we managed to extend our involvement in the title race to February and then finished the season in our lowest league position in 50 years below the mighty Falkirk. Who also pumped us out the play offs which was no real shock as Houston had Stubbs worked out to a tee.

Nobody can deny Stubbs made good signings here and that he was great at getting us up for Derbies and games against Sevco but in the grand scheme of things he was 10 minutes from being an unmitigated disaster.

He was poor in the league and he’s been dreadful wherever else he’s been. Much as I’ll always be grateful to Stubbs for winning the Scottish Cup, this attempt from the OP to rewrite history is embarrassing.

I do try to respect everyone's opinion on here, but I genuinely feel like you must have been watching another Hibs in this period if that's your conclusion from the Stubbs era. He is, unquestionably, one of the greatest managers in our club's history in terms of what he did for us. The idea that he was 10 minutes away from his reign being considered an unmitigated disaster is truly absurd

And even going on that logic, guess what, his substitutions changed the game and we deservedly won a game where we had battered Rangers, giving Hibs fans everywhere one of the greatest days of their lives

If you don't want him back in charge of us, fine. I have no problem with people who don't. I do, however, take issue with people who still continue to slate one of the biggest club icons in our modern history, the man who ended the 114-year wait for the Holy Grail, and knocked Hearts out on the way to doing it

[Winston Ingram]

In both of Stubbs' 2 seasons in charge we scored 1 league point less than when we were promoted under NL. The Rangers & Hearts were not in the league when we were promoted but NL actually won less league games than Stubbs!

I have never read a more venomous, or more inaccurate post on this Board. I don't know what your problem is with Stubbs but your obsession with decrying his record with Hibs is concerning. In the interests of brevity I won't respond to everything above, my few comments are in bold. There's only one person rewriting history here & it's not the OP!

Sorry it was understandable? You make it sound as if we were playing top sides rather than Alloa, Falkirk, Cowdenbeath etc. It would’ve understandable in the top league but not against that lot.

As for Alan Muir. Did he cause us to finish behind Falkirk? Was it his fault that we conceded from yet another set piece from Falkirk?

At some point you seem to have come up with idea that Neil Lennon was some bastion of brilliant management so therefore he is the standard. He did get us up and I agree it had a lot to do with the league being crap. Lennon was average first season, brilliant in his second and appalling in his 3rd.

And what are these inaccuracies? We were great in big games and poor and against the dross? That he signed good players? That Sevco and Hearts won the league playing with width scoring barrel-loads of goals and we persisted with a narrow formation for 2 years and scored nearly 30 less in both seasons? We had our lowest league finish in 50 years? The Sevco team we played against in our first season was so terrible they sacked they’re manager? We were never even remotely close to the Champions in either season and got pumped out the playoffs before we met the Premier League team?

[Winston Ingram]

I do try to respect everyone's opinion on here, but I genuinely feel like you must have been watching another Hibs in this period if that's your conclusion from the Stubbs era. He is, unquestionably, one of the greatest managers in our club's history in terms of what he did for us. The idea that he was 10 minutes away from his reign being considered an unmitigated disaster is truly absurd

And even going on that logic, guess what, his substitutions changed the game and we deservedly won a game where we had battered Rangers, giving Hibs fans everywhere one of the greatest days of their lives

If you don't want him back in charge of us, fine. I have no problem with people who don't. I do, however, take issue with people who still continue to slate one of the biggest club icons in our modern history, the man who ended the 114-year wait for the Holy Grail, and knocked Hearts out on the way to doing it

Is it? 2 years in the championship, finishing no where near the title winners in either season, having our lowest league finish in 50 years and getting pumped out the playoffs before we reached the PL team? How would you describe it?

[brog]

I’ve just checked. At the time of the thread, we had lost five of our last seven Championship games, none of which were against Rangers. I’m not sure that, after two seasons in the Championship, that would count as ‘stupidly quick’.

I would say it's a good example of how fickle our supporters/posters can be. Prior to that poor run we had lost 1 game in 27, away to The Rangers. We had won 21 of those games including against Aberdeen, Rangers, Dundee United, St Johnstone & Hearts. I would have thought that record should have bought Stubbs some time.

[ABZHFC]

Is it? 2 years in the championship, finishing no where near the title winners in either season, having our lowest league finish in 50 years and getting pumped out the playoffs before we reached the PL team? How would you describe it?

We were never going to win the league that first season (or even challenge for it) given the state of our squad as late as mid-June in 2014, the fact we finished 2nd above Rangers was a great achievement. And we were outgunned by a Rangers side with considerably more finances than us in the second season, having been in a title race until late February, but then ultimately the amount of games we played caught up with us and our league form plummeted.

Still, we won the Scottish Cup. Which is literally all that mattered. For that and that alone, I would never criticise Stubbs. But the best part is, he was also generally a fantastic manager for us, who brought in some amazing players, played great football, and gave some fantastic memories in his 2 years in charge of us.

Praying he comes back and does it all over again, myself!

[Winston Ingram]

I would say it's a good example of how fickle our supporters/posters can be. Prior to that poor run we had lost 1 game in 27, away to The Rangers. We had won 21 of those games including against Aberdeen, Rangers, Dundee United, St Johnstone & Hearts. I would have thought that record should have bought Stubbs some time.

We’d been on a decent run but we were winning by the odd goal like we did the previous season while Sevco were pumping teams.

We then collapsed winning 1 game in 8 losing 5 and drawing 2.

[WhileTheChief..]

Rangers got thumped 6-1 by Motherwell in the playoffs.

Lets not pretend they were anything great back then.

[Sammy7nil]

I do try to respect everyone's opinion on here, but I genuinely feel like you must have been watching another Hibs in this period if that's your conclusion from the Stubbs era. He is, unquestionably, one of the greatest managers in our club's history in terms of what he did for us. The idea that he was 10 minutes away from his reign being considered an unmitigated disaster is truly absurd

And even going on that logic, guess what, his substitutions changed the game and we deservedly won a game where we had battered Rangers, giving Hibs fans everywhere one of the greatest days of their lives

If you don't want him back in charge of us, fine. I have no problem with people who don't. I do, however, take issue with people who still continue to slate one of the biggest club icons in our modern history, the man who ended the 114-year wait for the Holy Grail, and knocked Hearts out on the way to doing it

See the Stubbs out thread and see for yourself how his time would have been judged. Football is full of very fine margins if that ten minutes went the other way Stubbs would never be mentioned as a great Hibs manager now he is a legend. Fine margins indeed.

[PH91]

For me Stubbs did a great job at Hibs and built a great team which had a real connection with the support.

He brought in some top players and he gets massive credit for that but i also think there is an element of 'luck' in that the players brought in connected well with each other and became a very close group with a strong camaraderie.

Im not convinced the same would happen again and although i think he could do a decent job i would prefer not to gamble his current legacy. Id rather fondly remember what he did for us and move on.

[brog]

Sorry it was understandable? You make it sound as if we were playing top sides rather than Alloa, Falkirk, Cowdenbeath etc. It would’ve understandable in the top league but not against that lot.

As for Alan Muir. Did he cause us to finish behind Falkirk? Was it his fault that we conceded from yet another set piece from Falkirk?

At some point you seem to have come up with idea that Neil Lennon was some bastion of brilliant management so therefore he is the standard. He did get us up and I agree it had a lot to do with the league being crap. Lennon was average first season, brilliant in his second and appalling in his 3rd.

And what are these inaccuracies? We were great in big games and poor and against the dross? That he signed good players? That Sevco and Hearts won the league playing with width scoring barrel-loads of goals and we persisted with a narrow formation for 2 years and scored nearly 30 less in both seasons? We had our lowest league finish in 50 years? The Sevco team we played against in our first season was so terrible they sacked they’re manager? We were never even remotely close to the Champions in either season and got pumped out the playoffs before we met the Premier League team?

You say we were poor against the dross, your phrase. We lost 4/24 games in season 1 & 5/28 in season 2. (That's games excluding Hearts, Rangers & Falkirk). You use incredibly emotive language (pumped out the play offs) to describe our losses & downplay our successes, "narrowly finished 2nd above a crap Rangers team". You say we were "pumped out" when we lost 2 playoffs by an odd goal,then you question why I mention Alan Muir, who greatly contributed to aforesaid loss. You quote the 'lowest league finish in 50 years' in every post but ignore the fact that finish was a direct result of being relegated. If we had won the league at 1st time of asking it would still have been our joint lowest finish in 50 years!
Strangely, I'm not really keen on AS returning but he took a club in complete disarray to winning The Cup in 2 seasons & in so doing set the foundation for our record season ticket sales & our highest attendances in over 50 years. He will always have my sincere gratitude & I really don't understand the invective directed at him by any Hibs fan.

[ABZHFC]

See the Stubbs out thread and see for yourself how his time would have been judged. Football is full of very fine margins if that ten minutes went the other way Stubbs would never be mentioned as a great Hibs manager now he is a legend. Fine margins indeed.

And that's my point, it shows just how fickle football fans are in the modern day. I wasn't on .net at the time, but I was absolutely 100% behind Stubbs, even if we had got pumped 5-0 in the final, there was no doubt in my mind he was the man for the job. As it happened, him leaving with his held very, very high allowed us to bring in Lennon, who was also a fantastic manager of our club in his first 2 years, all things considered.

Reading that thread only angered me more, if I'm honest. It gave an insight into how short-sighted football fans can be. People calling for the manager to be sacked 7 days before a cup final, deary me :rolleyes:

[brog]

We’d been on a decent run but we were winning by the odd goal like we did the previous season while Sevco were pumping teams.

We then collapsed winning 1 game in 8 losing 5 and drawing 2.

And at the same time reached 2 cup finals in one season for the only time in our history, oh & we won the Big Cup!!

[easty]

We were never going to win the league that first season (or even challenge for it) given the state of our squad as late as mid-June in 2014

That piss poor argument does my head in. As if hearts were in a good way and that’s why they strolled the league.

They just came off the back of a season just as bad as ours, the team that won the league was made up of loads of new signings for them. That’s a fact.

[Col2]

He will always be welcome back and I would be happy with Stubbs returning as manager. Like most, the combination with Doolan especially is important. Does anyone know if that is a non starter or not as I heard before they had fallen out.?

He won us the Scottish Cup! THE SCOTTISH CUP!!!!

[The Green Goblin]

he would need Doolan and Taff or its a no from me.

This is an underrated post which makes an absolutely essential point. It’s not just Stubbs, it’s his management team.

[Helensburghhibs]

That piss poor argument does my head in. As if hearts were in a good way and that’s why they strolled the league.

They just came off the back of a season just as bad as ours, the team that won the league was made up of loads of new signings for them. That’s a fact.

They did have more time to prepare than us though as with the points deduction they knew they were going down a fair bit in advance

[Crab apple]

Stubbs did very well on the recruitment front when here and got his tactics spot on in the big games. He’d give us a lift and help to bring some of the feel good factor back that’s all but disappeared under PH.

[easty]

They did have more time to prepare than us though as with the points deduction they knew they were going down a fair bit in advance

So what? The players they signed were with other clubs when hearts knew they were going down. so it’s no like they were playing together for ages.

We had a summer to sign players, they had a summer to sign players. They strolled it, we stuttered along for 3 years.

[Sammy7nil]

And that's my point, it shows just how fickle football fans are in the modern day. I wasn't on .net at the time, but I was absolutely 100% behind Stubbs, even if we had got pumped 5-0 in the final, there was no doubt in my mind he was the man for the job. As it happened, him leaving with his held very, very high allowed us to bring in Lennon, who was also a fantastic manager of our club in his first 2 years, all things considered.

Reading that thread only angered me more, if I'm honest. It gave an insight into how short-sighted football fans can be. People calling for the manager to be sacked 7 days before a cup final, deary me :rolleyes:

I am the exact opposite i don't recall ever calling for his head but I was sure he was not the man for the job. I was not disappointed at all when left i thought it was the right time. I will always be thankful for the cup and I really hope he gets a gig soon just not at Hibs

[ABZHFC]

That piss poor argument does my head in. As if hearts were in a good way and that’s why they strolled the league.

They just came off the back of a season just as bad as ours, the team that won the league was made up of loads of new signings for them. That’s a fact.

Hearts passed 10,000 season tickets sold in July 2014, we were on barely 6,000. The difference in attitudes amongst the two sets of fans was night and day, they were relegated after a fairly valiant fight caused by administration and playing kids, they were saved from liquidation and then kicked on massively from there. We were relegated in the most awful of circumstances, and were entering the second tier scratching our heads as to how

They were easily in the driving seat, and it's revisionism to pretend otherwise

[ABZHFC]

I am the exact opposite i don't recall ever calling for his head but I was sure he was not the man for the job. I was not disappointed at all when left i thought it was the right time. I will always be thankful for the cup and I really hope he gets a gig soon just not at Hibs

Which signing was it that made you feel this way? McGinn? Scott Allan? McGeouch? Gray? Boyle?

[Mixu62]

1st season in the championship, the yams had had a whole year to prepare themselves for it. Stubbs had about 3 weeks to get a squad together so the fact we were anywhere near contention and finished ahead of the huns was a minor miracle. 2nd season, did the huns not spend a bit to make sure they got the job done? (Honestly can't remember) Yes, we had a bad run (it happens) and with our resources should have finished above Falkirk, but we'd still likely have had to play them in the play off. Let's not forget the refereeing howler that denied us a penalty. I'd like to think that if Stubbs does get another chance, that he's learned some lessons about how to make a team more tough and resilient and not give away late goals and how to kill games off.

I'm in. Give him a similar deal to what Lennon got with celtic, till the end of the season and if it works out, extend his contract. Unfortunately the drawback with an arrangement like that is, that there's little chance he'd get money to spend in the January window if he might only be there 6 months.

[HibeeHibernian4]

We’d been on a decent run but we were winning by the odd goal like we did the previous season while Sevco were pumping teams.

We then collapsed winning 1 game in 8 losing 5 and drawing 2.

If you call one defeat in 27, winning 21 of those games a "decent run" then you are the most hard-to-please person in the world.

[lord bunberry]

I think the original one of the worst I’ve seen on Hibs.net. What utter drivel.

What people continue to give credit to Stubbs was how he ‘turned it around’.

We were in the championship ffs against the likes of Cowdenbeath, Dumbarton and Alloa. We had the 2nd biggest budget in the league that year and we were completely out of the Championship race by October. We did narrowly finish above arguably the worst Sevco team in history, who then promptly knocked us out the playoffs and then Moshni and co went on to lose 7-1 to a rotten Motherwell side over 2 legs.

He had a good record in big games (not including Falkirk) but his record against the dross was really poor. While Hearts were spanking this crap by opening up their tight defences with the width of Walker and Nicholson, our manager decided we would play a narrow diamond which played right into the hands of everybody who came to ER and didn’t want to participate in a game of football which was pretty much everyone bar Hearts and Sevco. We failed to beat so many of these sides and we were absolutely fantastic at conceding late winners/equalisers from a set piece. Pretty much every team knew how to play against us and clearly felt confident of getting something.

In season 2, after our experience of watching how such a narrow midfield diamond formation labour to breakdown these double banked defences, where the opposition striker pretty acted as a holding midfielder, he ignored the ready made blueprint of width and pace on how to win that league handed to him by our neighbours and unbelievably stuck with the diamond again.

Not surprisingly, after doing the same thing and expecting different results, the same happened again the following season with us continuing to fail to break these teams down and conceding late goals from set pieces.

This time however, we managed to extend our involvement in the title race to February and then finished the season in our lowest league position in 50 years below the mighty Falkirk. Who also pumped us out the play offs which was no real shock as Houston had Stubbs worked out to a tee.

Nobody can deny Stubbs made good signings here and that he was great at getting us up for Derbies and games against Sevco but in the grand scheme of things he was 10 minutes from being an unmitigated disaster.

He was poor in the league and he’s been dreadful wherever else he’s been. Much as I’ll always be grateful to Stubbs for winning the Scottish Cup, this attempt from the OP to rewrite history is embarrassing.
I’ve been staring at the screen for a good while trying to think of a response to your post. To be honest words fail me, that is probably one of the worst posts I’ve ever seen on here. We all have different opinions on things, but the venom in your post about a hibs legend is unbelievable. I get that many don’t want him back, but most haven’t resorted to such negativity.

[lord bunberry]

So what? The players they signed were with other clubs when hearts knew they were going down. so it’s no like they were playing together for ages.

We had a summer to sign players, they had a summer to sign players. They strolled it, we stuttered along for 3 years.
They had time to bring through younger players in preparation for their season in the championship. By the time they played their first game in the championship most of their team had played together and had started to pick up points in the premiership. We had to cobble a team together at short notice. When we started pre season we couldn’t put out a team of first team regulars.

[Beefster]

Which signing was it that made you feel this way? McGinn? Scott Allan? McGeouch? Gray? Boyle?

Chris Dagnall? Adam Eckersley? Dan Carmichael?

There’s not really any benefit in pretending everything was overwhelmingly positive.

[Todi114]

The best 10 minutes of the 50 years I have supported Hibs

[Danderhall Hibs]

I’ve been staring at the screen for a good while trying to think of a response to your post. To be honest words fail me, that is probably one of the worst posts I’ve ever seen on here. We all have different opinions on things, but the venom in your post about a hibs legend is unbelievable. I get that many don’t want him back, but most haven’t resorted to such negativity.

:agree:

“Houston had him worked out” - a referee saved them from a doing in the playoff.

Pretty sure this guy was a coach or knows a coach at EM who Stubbs didn’t rate and moved on. No other reason for the venom.

[ads913]

Chris Dagnall? Adam Eckersley? Dan Carmichael?

There’s not really any benefit in pretending everything was overwhelmingly positive.

A bit weak mate, 3 players that were overshadowed by better players 2 brought in for backup on short term deals.

[matty_f]

:agree:

“Houston had him worked out” - a referee saved them from a doing in the playoff.

Pretty sure this guy was a coach or knows a coach at EM who Stubbs didn’t rate and moved on. No other reason for the venom.

The Houston thing does my head in on a massive scale. Now, I'm generally, as a rule, happy to take a consistency of results as evidence over a perception of luck, etc.

However, Houston's Falkirk side were incredibly fortunate against us - the semi-final, for example - if we'd won that game by 5 goals they couldn't have complained, the idea that they were tactically better than us is utterly absurd.

That can be said about any number of matches against them, games where refs bailed them out etc.

Ultimately, Houston's results against us were better than Stubbs' against them (AFAIK) but Falkirk rode their luck on so many occasions that you couldn't confidently put their success down to good tactics.

Unless, of course, we think that Houston's tactics were "Right lads, let them pummel you, hopefully they'll not have their shooting boots on and we'll hope to score from one of the only chances we get."