an alternative view

[Islington Hibs]

Today is a sad day. It did not work out.

I know I am in a large minority but while our signings have not been great so far we are not so far off from being half decent. I genuinely think we are mid table material – no better no worse.

If it had been my call I would not have sacked Hecky and would have given him a good deal longer but that debate is now of no value. For the record Paul leaves winning 12, drawing 11 and losing 9. Far better than most Hibernian managers.

What is of value is to appraise what went wrong and how it can be rectified.

Firstly, the last few seasons have been easy street. No Rangers and a poor Celtic. Now it is different Rangers and Celtic, like it or not, are far, far improved with budgets 5x ours. Sure we have double the budget of say Motherwell but frankly that is a rounding error while third tier English clubs pay well above what we do.

Before we won the cup Hibernian were in a dire mess. An angry support, a merry-go-round of managers and over 100 players in 5 seasons, unrealistic expectations, a negative vibe and a half empty stadium, even for the big games. My interest was waining.

Stubbs/ Demptster and the cup changed all that and for three or four short seasons Hibernian had a support, positivity and atmosphere like never before (in my life time). Today, if Hibs.net is the barometer, our support is angry and has gone back to every negativity of the past.

Give me a break from 'I will not accept this mediocrity' sanctimonious crap from some posters. Take the plank out of your eye before removing the spec from others. We are in danger of learning nothing and making this club ungovernable through a volatile, angry and very short term results driven, support. The real world operates a a bit differently and todays sacking could well cost well over £1m by the time all the impacts are felt from disregarded players, new budgets, ideas and styles. And frankly there is absolutely no guarantee it will work at all. It is a 50-50 punt for being a substantial sum worse off.

Some of our support never accepted Hecky from day one. They harked back to the loud mouthed days of Lennon, whose record latterly was very poor. The truth is we had and lost an outstanding midfield through no ones fault other than much more money elsewhere. McGinn was a once in a generation superstar and for a while we had the best midfield in Scotland who could turn a game on a six-pence. That is a rare thing. Was it Stubbs/ Dempster or luck who found it? Who knows, who cares- it was here.

Frankly in no sensible industry/activity is success judged on a six month time frame. That is what pathetically happens in football. Our poor new owner. I do hope he knows what he has let himself in for. A support with rightly with high expectations but also one who turn very quickly and frankly given our budget a complete miss-match between expectations and reality. Your unrealistic expectations made Hibernian an impossible gig before the cup win and there is a danger you will do the same again.

I am quite sure this post will be shouted down. Go ahead if you like but things cannot continue like this. Boo if you like, get at the new manager if it makes you feel good, but I’m out. Create a fun supportive vibe and I am in, almost regardless of the results. I suspect I am not he only one.

[Hibernia&Alba]

It's always good to have a range of views and a chance to debae, but I just don't agree with you, mate. I think he should have gone weeks ago; he was taking us into a relegation battle. We are disorganised, don't seem to have a discernable style of play, and his signings look very poor. Given he was given a good budget, one league win at this stage just isn't good enough. We don't seem to have any resilience just now, which has to change. It's always a tough call regarding when to finally sack a manager, but Hecky had been every chance to turn things around; he just didn't seem to have the answers. Hopefully we can now get some improvement.

[Niffy]

A large minority ?

[CathroMustStay]

'They harked back to the loud mouthed days of Lennon'

Like your stance that we should have kept Heckingbottom, utter nonsensical ramblings.

However you're 100% entitled to your opinion.

[ben johnson]

It’s not down to isolated incidents but how PH thought Vela could do a job against a Celtic midfield was the final straw after some baffling tactical decisions and extremely poor signings.

[Islington Hibs]

It's always good to have a range of views and a chance to debae, but I just don't agree with you, mate. I think he should have gone weeks ago; he was taking us into a relegation battle. We are disorganised, don't seem to have a discernable style of play, and his signings look very poor. Given he was given a good budget, one league win at this stage just isn't good enough. We don't seem to have any resilience just now, which has to change. It's always a tough call regarding when to finally sack a manager, but Hecky had been every chance to turn things around; he just didn't seem to have the answers. Hopefully we can now get some improvement.


I do have some sympathy with your comments. Clearly it is not working well. My plea is for consistence and and optimism really- I just think the hate campaign against Hecky was OTT

[One Day Soon]

Meh

[bigwheel]

I love a different view on things post..big thanks to the OP...don’t agree with it all - but like the fact it’s not following the herd with typical opinion.

Respect ✊️

[Davy Mac]

Decent point of view, and respect for the post.

It wasn't that long ago we were in the deep doodoo and we can't afford to slip back into the championship, it would be a financial disaster this time as IMO the cup finals in 2016 bailed us out financially and there is no guarantee we would repeat it.

Sorry, we need to retain our status in the Premiership, no buts, no if's, he needed to be removed.

Our first priority is to push away from the bottom, with these players I doubt it, which leaves the 2nd half of the season where historically Hibs are poorer at the business end.

I will be surprised if we see an immediate improvement but today was the beginning of the recovery but it will be 'hang on to your hats' stuff for the remainder of the season.

[tamig]

Heckingbottom not starting with two up top on Saturday was reason enough for him to go. He does not seem capable of learning any lessons. Everything in football is a gamble. You can look at compensation costs for getting rid but that needs to be weighed up against the ultimate cost of failure - another spell downstairs.

[green with envy]

Sentimental claptrap.

[Keith_M]

Can't people just agree to disagree with the guy?

I actually agree with some sentiments but not others (I feel I could make a really good argument for Hecky leaving) but the guy's entitled to his opinion.

[G B Young]

I agree with a fair bit of what you say. Part of me was still thinking we might not be as far away as all that from turning the corner, although that may have been based largely on the fact I was impressed by the way Hecky so quickly turned things around last season after taking over from Lennon.

I think, though, that the anger is of a different nature this time. In those awful days pre-Stubbs/Dempster we seemed to have no direction and next to no hope of ever exploiting the potential of the club. Now that the potential HAS been exploited thanks to the cup win and the resultant surge in crowds etc we're on the cusp of throwing it all away in what seems like the blink of an eye. It just feels like it shouldn't have come to this so quickly and if we hadn't acted now the risk of finding ourselves embroiled in a battle against the drop under Hecky was just too great.

[WhileTheChief..]

Can't people just agree to disagree with the guy?

I actually agree with some sentiments but not others (I feel I could make a really good argument for Hecky leaving) but the guy's entitled to his opinion.

He’s happy enough chucking insults at other Hibs fans on here though.

[IberianHibernian]

Today is a sad day. It did not work out.

I know I am in a large minority but while our signings have not been great so far we are not so far off from being half decent. I genuinely think we are mid table material – no better no worse.

If it had been my call I would not have sacked Hecky and would have given him a good deal longer but that debate is now of no value. For the record Paul leaves winning 12, drawing 11 and losing 9. Far better than most Hibernian managers.

What is of value is to appraise what went wrong and how it can be rectified.

Firstly, the last few seasons have been easy street. No Rangers and a poor Celtic. Now it is different Rangers and Celtic, like it or not, are far, far improved with budgets 5x ours. Sure we have double the budget of say Motherwell but frankly that is a rounding error while third tier English clubs pay well above what we do.

Before we won the cup Hibernian were in a dire mess. An angry support, a merry-go-round of managers and over 100 players in 5 seasons, unrealistic expectations, a negative vibe and a half empty stadium, even for the big games. My interest was waining.

Stubbs/ Demptster and the cup changed all that and for three or four short seasons Hibernian had a support, positivity and atmosphere like never before (in my life time). Today, if Hibs.net is the barometer, our support is angry and has gone back to every negativity of the past.

Give me a break from 'I will not accept this mediocrity' sanctimonious crap from some posters. Take the plank out of your eye before removing the spec from others. We are in danger of learning nothing and making this club ungovernable through a volatile, angry and very short term results driven, support. The real world operates a a bit differently and todays sacking could well cost well over £1m by the time all the impacts are felt from disregarded players, new budgets, ideas and styles. And frankly there is absolutely no guarantee it will work at all. It is a 50-50 punt for being a substantial sum worse off.

Some of our support never accepted Hecky from day one. They harked back to the loud mouthed days of Lennon, whose record latterly was very poor. The truth is we had and lost an outstanding midfield through no ones fault other than much more money elsewhere. McGinn was a once in a generation superstar and for a while we had the best midfield in Scotland who could turn a game on a six-pence. That is a rare thing. Was it Stubbs/ Dempster or luck who found it? Who knows, who cares- it was here.

Frankly in no sensible industry/activity is success judged on a six month time frame. That is what pathetically happens in football. Our poor new owner. I do hope he knows what he has let himself in for. A support with rightly with high expectations but also one who turn very quickly and frankly given our budget a complete miss-match between expectations and reality. Your unrealistic expectations made Hibernian an impossible gig before the cup win and there is a danger you will do the same again.

I am quite sure this post will be shouted down. Go ahead if you like but things cannot continue like this. Boo if you like, get at the new manager if it makes you feel good, but I’m out. Create a fun supportive vibe and I am in, almost regardless of the results. I suspect I am not he only one.Interesting post and I agree with most of it . Raised some good points too - how much do managerial changes cost us in compensation etc ? A lot of frustration I think is down to reality that we`ve returned to OF dominance - in 3 years after relegation we could hope for very meaningful league positions and then in 17 / 18 we were close to second in top division and playing great football . If we`re to challenge again it`ll take much more than a change of manager and changes will have to be made in recruitment , academy , marketing ...

[B.H.F.C]

Frankly in no sensible industry/activity is success judged on a six month time frame. That is what pathetically happens in football.

That’s not true. If I was seriously under performing for that period of time in my job, I’d be managed out the door. Probably without a payoff.

[chrisski33]

Fair enough you have your views and rambled a bit but surely you couldn't have been happy with what was being offered on the park and the results?? Or are you in denial?

[brog]

I'm disappointed but paradoxically happy that Heck has gone. I think however the OP raises some interesting & valid points. My biggest disappointment however over the last 2 or 3 months has been the behaviour of some of our fans. Maybe it's my age but I loathe the language that is sometimes used to talk about our players & our staff. No player sets out to play badly & no manager sets out to fail. We're living in a polarised world just now. I'd like to see all of us as Hibs fans try to ratchet down the vitriol now & see if we can rediscover Hibs Class.

[B.H.F.C]

No player sets out to play badly

I don’t think they do. But of the current players, there are certainly some who don’t appear to be giving everything they can, to perform well.

[Crab apple]

We were heading for a relegation battle under PH and might still be given the players he’s left us with.

[calumhibee1]

That’s not true. If I was seriously under performing for that period of time in my job, I’d be managed out the door. Probably without a payoff.

Seeing posts like this make me realise how secure a job I’m in. Folk in my work have made 30 year careers out of being outrageously hopeless :greengrin

[Sir David Gray]

Today is a sad day. It did not work out.

I know I am in a large minority but while our signings have not been great so far we are not so far off from being half decent. I genuinely think we are mid table material – no better no worse.

If it had been my call I would not have sacked Hecky and would have given him a good deal longer but that debate is now of no value. For the record Paul leaves winning 12, drawing 11 and losing 9. Far better than most Hibernian managers.

What is of value is to appraise what went wrong and how it can be rectified.

Firstly, the last few seasons have been easy street. No Rangers and a poor Celtic. Now it is different Rangers and Celtic, like it or not, are far, far improved with budgets 5x ours. Sure we have double the budget of say Motherwell but frankly that is a rounding error while third tier English clubs pay well above what we do.

Before we won the cup Hibernian were in a dire mess. An angry support, a merry-go-round of managers and over 100 players in 5 seasons, unrealistic expectations, a negative vibe and a half empty stadium, even for the big games. My interest was waining.

Stubbs/ Demptster and the cup changed all that and for three or four short seasons Hibernian had a support, positivity and atmosphere like never before (in my life time). Today, if Hibs.net is the barometer, our support is angry and has gone back to every negativity of the past.

Give me a break from 'I will not accept this mediocrity' sanctimonious crap from some posters. Take the plank out of your eye before removing the spec from others. We are in danger of learning nothing and making this club ungovernable through a volatile, angry and very short term results driven, support. The real world operates a a bit differently and todays sacking could well cost well over £1m by the time all the impacts are felt from disregarded players, new budgets, ideas and styles. And frankly there is absolutely no guarantee it will work at all. It is a 50-50 punt for being a substantial sum worse off.

Some of our support never accepted Hecky from day one. They harked back to the loud mouthed days of Lennon, whose record latterly was very poor. The truth is we had and lost an outstanding midfield through no ones fault other than much more money elsewhere. McGinn was a once in a generation superstar and for a while we had the best midfield in Scotland who could turn a game on a six-pence. That is a rare thing. Was it Stubbs/ Dempster or luck who found it? Who knows, who cares- it was here.

Frankly in no sensible industry/activity is success judged on a six month time frame. That is what pathetically happens in football. Our poor new owner. I do hope he knows what he has let himself in for. A support with rightly with high expectations but also one who turn very quickly and frankly given our budget a complete miss-match between expectations and reality. Your unrealistic expectations made Hibernian an impossible gig before the cup win and there is a danger you will do the same again.

I am quite sure this post will be shouted down. Go ahead if you like but things cannot continue like this. Boo if you like, get at the new manager if it makes you feel good, but I’m out. Create a fun supportive vibe and I am in, almost regardless of the results. I suspect I am not he only one.

He won 7 out of 24 league matches but 6 of those wins came in his first 8 games.

Winning just 1 out of 16 games is going to put any manager under pressure and I think he was given more than enough time to turn it around.

[Squirrel 1875]

Thank you for sharing your opinion, however I disagree completely. For me, this comes across as another attempt at defending mediocrity. I support a big team in Scotland and I believe it should be finishing in the top four every season. Anything below that is a failure.

[hibbydog]

I agree with quite a lot of that.

There’s a point that struck a chord with me-

Yes there are excellent arguments for sacking the manager but it is a seven figure outlay for a non guaranteed outcome. History proves that this seldom changes things long term so it is little surprise that the owner left it as long as he could.

Interesting to read a bit of dispassionate, open minded thinking on the bigger picture as well as an understanding of where we rank in the scheme of things.

Excellent post IMO

[Onion]

The football was horrible. He had to go.

[Captain Trips]

That’s not true. If I was seriously under performing for that period of time in my job, I’d be managed out the door. Probably without a payoff.

Indeed but yet again the OP is comparing how "normal" jobs are and football. They are ran completely differently they are not comparable and it is utter nonsense when they are compared. People in "normal" jobs don't get folk shouting abuse at them one week then next people fawning over them singing songs about them good and bad,signing autographs, doing press interviews.

[jacomo]

I agree with quite a lot of that.

There’s a point that struck a chord with me-

Yes there are excellent arguments for sacking the manager but it is a seven figure outlay for a non guaranteed outcome. History proves that this seldom changes things long term so it is little surprise that the owner left it as long as he could.

Interesting to read a bit of dispassionate, open minded thinking on the bigger picture as well as an understanding of where we rank in the scheme of things.

Excellent post IMO


You’re right, it’s a gamble of course.

But most of us agree that it’s become the only course of action. I’ll give Ron some leeway because he’s new to all this and I imagine the last thing he wanted to do was rip up the plan, but it was clear to me weeks ago that Hecky was taking us nowhere.

So much was wrong, from his recruitment decisions, to his inability to get the team to play the way he told us they were going to, to his poor communication.

He’s left us in a relegation battle and a lame semi final exit from the league cup. Best wishes and all that, but thank **** he’s gone.

[Tobias Funke]

Thank you for sharing your opinion, however I disagree completely. For me, this comes across as another attempt at defending mediocrity. I support a big team in Scotland and I believe it should be finishing in the top four every season. Anything below that is a failure.

Agreed. I am absolutely baffled why any Hibs fan would settle for mid table mediocrity. We had the third highest average attendance last season, we have huge potential. Maybe we don’t deserve to be successful with supporters like this.

[greenlex]

That’s not true. If I was seriously under performing for that period of time in my job, I’d be managed out the door. Probably without a payoff.
You dont know if he was seriously underperforming or not. You don’t know what his targets were. Clearly he was underperforming but I doubt he would be out the door if we were even just five or six points better off despite some poor performances. There was possibly an argument for the club to stick with it for a few games yet. All immaterial now in any case.

[Iggy Pope]

Sentimental claptrap.

Ha!

[confused]

I can only see a lot of truth in what you say.
Today is a sad day. It did not work out.

I know I am in a large minority but while our signings have not been great so far we are not so far off from being half decent. I genuinely think we are mid table material – no better no worse.

If it had been my call I would not have sacked Hecky and would have given him a good deal longer but that debate is now of no value. For the record Paul leaves winning 12, drawing 11 and losing 9. Far better than most Hibernian managers.

What is of value is to appraise what went wrong and how it can be rectified.

Firstly, the last few seasons have been easy street. No Rangers and a poor Celtic. Now it is different Rangers and Celtic, like it or not, are far, far improved with budgets 5x ours. Sure we have double the budget of say Motherwell but frankly that is a rounding error while third tier English clubs pay well above what we do.

Before we won the cup Hibernian were in a dire mess. An angry support, a merry-go-round of managers and over 100 players in 5 seasons, unrealistic expectations, a negative vibe and a half empty stadium, even for the big games. My interest was waining.

Stubbs/ Demptster and the cup changed all that and for three or four short seasons Hibernian had a support, positivity and atmosphere like never before (in my life time). Today, if Hibs.net is the barometer, our support is angry and has gone back to every negativity of the past.

Give me a break from 'I will not accept this mediocrity' sanctimonious crap from some posters. Take the plank out of your eye before removing the spec from others. We are in danger of learning nothing and making this club ungovernable through a volatile, angry and very short term results driven, support. The real world operates a a bit differently and todays sacking could well cost well over £1m by the time all the impacts are felt from disregarded players, new budgets, ideas and styles. And frankly there is absolutely no guarantee it will work at all. It is a 50-50 punt for being a substantial sum worse off.

Some of our support never accepted Hecky from day one. They harked back to the loud mouthed days of Lennon, whose record latterly was very poor. The truth is we had and lost an outstanding midfield through no ones fault other than much more money elsewhere. McGinn was a once in a generation superstar and for a while we had the best midfield in Scotland who could turn a game on a six-pence. That is a rare thing. Was it Stubbs/ Dempster or luck who found it? Who knows, who cares- it was here.

Frankly in no sensible industry/activity is success judged on a six month time frame. That is what pathetically happens in football. Our poor new owner. I do hope he knows what he has let himself in for. A support with rightly with high expectations but also one who turn very quickly and frankly given our budget a complete miss-match between expectations and reality. Your unrealistic expectations made Hibernian an impossible gig before the cup win and there is a danger you will do the same again.

I am quite sure this post will be shouted down. Go ahead if you like but things cannot continue like this. Boo if you like, get at the new manager if it makes you feel good, but I’m out. Create a fun supportive vibe and I am in, almost regardless of the results. I suspect I am not he only one.

[CMurdoch]

Good to read a reasoned post of more than 4 lines for a change.
Well done on that OP.

I think the owner gave the manager the right amount of time to turn it around.
Not because he is a great guy but because he knew the financial cost of sacking Hecky and his assistant.

IMO the run of 3 games ending with the Livingston game finally cooked his goose.
These matches told the story of a manager unable to beat teams with a fraction of his budget.
Despite what the fans thought the money men and women were weighing it all out and Hecky finally ran out of rope.

[mjhibby]

I'm disappointed but paradoxically happy that Heck has gone. I think however the OP raises some interesting & valid points. My biggest disappointment however over the last 2 or 3 months has been the behaviour of some of our fans. Maybe it's my age but I loathe the language that is sometimes used to talk about our players & our staff. No player sets out to play badly & no manager sets out to fail. We're living in a polarised world just now. I'd like to see all of us as Hibs fans try to ratchet down the vitriol now & see if we can rediscover Hibs Class.

My thoughts exactly. Can never understand why we don't create an atmosphere that intimidates the opposition. It's the same at the PBS. The minute there is a misplaced pass then the groans start and gradually get worse. As Brian Graham said after the Ross county game it was like a morgue. I know its a chicken and egg situation. The fans respond to the team doing well but maybe if we were more vocal the players would respond with that extra few percent. I'm not moaning at our fans merely making an observation. Let's hope whoever is the new boss we get right behind him and the team and get us up towards the top six.

[hibeerealist]

Today is a sad day. It did not work out.

I know I am in a large minority but while our signings have not been great so far we are not so far off from being half decent. I genuinely think we are mid table material – no better no worse.

If it had been my call I would not have sacked Hecky and would have given him a good deal longer but that debate is now of no value. For the record Paul leaves winning 12, drawing 11 and losing 9. Far better than most Hibernian managers.

What is of value is to appraise what went wrong and how it can be rectified.

Firstly, the last few seasons have been easy street. No Rangers and a poor Celtic. Now it is different Rangers and Celtic, like it or not, are far, far improved with budgets 5x ours. Sure we have double the budget of say Motherwell but frankly that is a rounding error while third tier English clubs pay well above what we do.

Before we won the cup Hibernian were in a dire mess. An angry support, a merry-go-round of managers and over 100 players in 5 seasons, unrealistic expectations, a negative vibe and a half empty stadium, even for the big games. My interest was waining.

Stubbs/ Demptster and the cup changed all that and for three or four short seasons Hibernian had a support, positivity and atmosphere like never before (in my life time). Today, if Hibs.net is the barometer, our support is angry and has gone back to every negativity of the past.

Give me a break from 'I will not accept this mediocrity' sanctimonious crap from some posters. Take the plank out of your eye before removing the spec from others. We are in danger of learning nothing and making this club ungovernable through a volatile, angry and very short term results driven, support. The real world operates a a bit differently and todays sacking could well cost well over £1m by the time all the impacts are felt from disregarded players, new budgets, ideas and styles. And frankly there is absolutely no guarantee it will work at all. It is a 50-50 punt for being a substantial sum worse off.

Some of our support never accepted Hecky from day one. They harked back to the loud mouthed days of Lennon, whose record latterly was very poor. The truth is we had and lost an outstanding midfield through no ones fault other than much more money elsewhere. McGinn was a once in a generation superstar and for a while we had the best midfield in Scotland who could turn a game on a six-pence. That is a rare thing. Was it Stubbs/ Dempster or luck who found it? Who knows, who cares- it was here.

Frankly in no sensible industry/activity is success judged on a six month time frame. That is what pathetically happens in football. Our poor new owner. I do hope he knows what he has let himself in for. A support with rightly with high expectations but also one who turn very quickly and frankly given our budget a complete miss-match between expectations and reality. Your unrealistic expectations made Hibernian an impossible gig before the cup win and there is a danger you will do the same again.

I am quite sure this post will be shouted down. Go ahead if you like but things cannot continue like this. Boo if you like, get at the new manager if it makes you feel good, but I’m out. Create a fun supportive vibe and I am in, almost regardless of the results. I suspect I am not he only one.


Shaking my head reading this Jesus what are your expectations for Hibs?

Ross County, Motherwell and Killie outperforming us and you think we are too demanding, it certainly is the era of the snowflake. Lots I like to add but best left alone and this probably took you some time to “construct” therefore best to leave you with your thoughts although I have to say I disagree (with it all)!!!

[mjhibby]

Good to read a reasoned post of more than 3 lines for a change.
Well done on that OP.

I think the owner gave the manager the right amount of time to turn it around.
Not because he is a great guy but because he knew the financial cost of sacking Hecky and his assistant.

IMO the run of 3 games ending with the Livingston game finally cooked his goose.
These matches told the story of a manager unable to beat teams with a fraction of his budget.
Despite what the fans thought the money men and women were weighing it all out and Hecky finally ran out of rope.

Not sure the cost of binning hecky will be as much as people think especially if Jack Ross is the new boss. Most managers know they won't get their full contract paid up but a settlement of maybe till the end of the season is more likely especially if they don't accept a settlement then they could wait months or years to get paid.The biggest cost will be reshaping the squad which will need doing.

[monktonharp]

Decent point of view, and respect for the post.

It wasn't that long ago we were in the deep doodoo and we can't afford to slip back into the championship, it would be a financial disaster this time as IMO the cup finals in 2016 bailed us out financially and there is no guarantee we would repeat it.

Sorry, we need to retain our status in the Premiership, no buts, no if's, he needed to be removed.

Our first priority is to push away from the bottom, with these players I doubt it, which leaves the 2nd half of the season where historically Hibs are poorer at the business end.

I will be surprised if we see an immediate improvement but today was the beginning of the recovery but it will be 'hang on to your hats' stuff for the remainder of the season.I think that we were virtually worried from the Off, this season. especially when we saw the calibre of players brought in by Hecky. we are not Barca, and the gorgie mob are certainly not Real Madrid and we all know that we are miles behind the Glasgow teams in terms of finance , which then brings quality but we(and them over the road) are major clubs in Scottish terms at least that Should be contesting major honours and near the top of our league, not struggling to stay in that league .we have had decades of this, and yet since the SC cup win we have had the best attendances at ER since the famous five days. we should have "kicked on" but are basically back in the situation we have had for years. we must recover very soon or thousands will give up

[Mibbes Aye]

Shaking my head reading this Jesus what are your expectations for Hibs?

Ross County, Motherwell and Killie outperforming us and you think we are too demanding, it certainly is the era of the snowflake. Lots I like to add but best left alone and this probably took you some time to “construct” therefore best to leave you with your thoughts although I have to say I disagree (with it all)!!!

If there is one thing I hate, it is ‘Oh, we should be doing better than Ross County, Motherwell and Killie’

It smacks of a sense of entitlement that we don’t deserve to have. We might have a bigger budget but if others get the right balance of a decent manager, a good squad and their peers not being in the right place then they will prosper. And if we aren’t doing the same then we will suffer. No one in our support moans when we beat Celtic or Rangers and says that’s not right, we shouldn’t be competing with teams that can afford players much better than ours, we just enjoy it and soak it up.

Football is a leveller. It is certainly meritocratic when it comes to playing ability, 99.9% of players will make it to where they should. It fluctuates a bit more with clubs, because the dynamic is so much more fluid. The right manager, the right couple of players, and that’s why it happens. Motherwell and Aberdeen were both strong challengers IIRC in the mid to late nineties, maybe early noughties. That was a lot to do with a Celtc side that fluctuated from season to season, meaning Rankgers were the only target.

We have no god-given right to expect top four or whatever, we have to earn it. And we shouldn’t moan when so-called lesser clubs seem to be out-performing us. It just means they are making a better fist of it and we need to improve on what we are doing.

[Cataplana]

I would have emptied him weeks ago. On reflection, it was right to give him a quarter of the season . Any manager that replaces him still has plenty of time to turn it round.

I wish somebody had stopped him making those disastrous signings though. Next priority is to move them on.

[BILLYHIBS]

Good post!

Alas the League table does not lie

On the other hand turn all of his draws into the victories that they should have been and he would still be in a job Aberdeen away Celtic, St Johnstone Ross County at home immediately spring to mind

For me it was the eye bleeding football the lack of penetration and guile in the final third and rank rotten signings that sealed his fate

The way he set us up in the Scottish Cup versus Celtic at Easter Road set my spidey senses tingling

That was not HIBS

He did not “get us” or our tradition for playing fast exciting entertaining attractive attacking football

A nice enough guy but not once did he endear himself to the fans he had more than enough time to turn things around but had to go before the damage he was causing became irreversible

[jeffers]

While some of the points in the OP I agree with I don't get the chat about unrealistic expectations of our fans, IMO the majority of us are only looking for the expectations set by our CEO to be met.

[Speedway]

He made the same mistakes almost every week from day one.

He wasn’t learning. I’m only sorry that we left it so long and killed the feel good factor.

[jacomo]

While some of the points in the OP I agree with I don't get the chat about unrealistic expectations of our fans, IMO the majority of us are only looking for the expectations set by our CEO to be met.


:agree:

Also, PH himself set the expectations for how his team would play... but then failed to meet them.

He really can’t have many complaints.

[Hakim Sar]

Disagree.

No hibs fan should ever be made to feel guilty for expecting our club to be top 6 minimum.

The football doesn't always have to be pretty, but results should be much much better than 1 league win by November.

We were being dragged into a very dangerous relegation scrap where the premier league playoff side will face a tough challenge versus their championship opponents next year.

1 million to get rid of Heck? Think about the total cost of another relegation????

Hibs need not be accommodating to 'mediocrity' on a Scottish Premier League scale.

Otherwise, thanks for your post and your opinions. Nice to read something different and eloquently put.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Disagree.

No hibs fan should ever be made to feel guilty for expecting our club to be top 6 minimum.

The football doesn't always have to be pretty, but results should be much much better than 1 league win by November.

We were being dragged into a very dangerous relegation scrap where the premier league playoff side will face a tough challenge versus their championship opponents next year.

1 million to get rid of Heck? Think about the total cost of another relegation????

Hibs need not be accommodating to 'mediocrity' on a Scottish Premier League scale.

Otherwise, thanks for your post and your opinions. Nice to read something different and eloquently put.

Amen to that.

[I_Love_Latapy]

I just think that the OP has done a super job at setting out a thoughtful argument. Personally, I have been in the ‘give him til November’ camp - now I feel that getting rid of him will not guarantee success but on balance should make it more likely.

I wholeheartedly agree with comments about being saddened about the personal abuse - this forum seems relatively benign compared with FB/Twitter ... but all the Hecky the Fraud GTF nonsense has made me uncomfortable. By all means disagree with his selection & formation, but don’t go off on one when the bloke was clearly committed to the job and trying his best.

[iwasthere1972]

The football was rubbish. We were looking like getting into a relegation battle although still loads of games left. The fans wanted him out.

Try and gloss it over but he had to go. Thankfully he has so we can now move on.

[Brizo]

PHB did nothing imo to engage with the support or attempt to build up any rapport with us.

Building that rapport can buy a manager some time when results aren't going to plan. Of course it will only buy some limited time before those bad results get you the bullet.

PHB came across to me as a dour humourless and somewhat arrogant character who displayed no real affinity for the club and who made it obvious that Hibs was just another job. While I appreciate that its just another job for all or nearly all of them, unfortunately for us and for him it was a job he did very badly.

[Steve20]

I honestly can't believe anyone would have kept him longer.

Unless they enjoyed being in the Championship that much, they couldn't wait to get back there.

[worcesterhibby]

Personally I think the timing of the sacking was just about bang on, so I disagree with the OP on that front. However I do agree with him about the toxic nature of modern football and the lack of respect for people who are trying (but failing) to do their job well. It's a difficult balance and I am also aware that I myself was much more hot headed and willing to shout abuse occasionally as a younger man. Trying to find the right balance between sleepwalking into mediocrity and abusing Hibs staff is a tough call, but I'm not sure we really got it right. To be fair things were different before social media and it's not solely a Hibs problem it seems to happen at pretty much every club to a lesser or greater degree.

Let's just all hope that the new manager has a positive start, get's us playing good football and gets the full unconditional backing of the Hibs support. When we all pull together we are a force to be reckoned with..Just ask Rangers.

[Barman Stanton]

If there is one thing I hate, it is ‘Oh, we should be doing better than Ross County, Motherwell and Killie’

It smacks of a sense of entitlement that we don’t deserve to have. We might have a bigger budget but if others get the right balance of a decent manager, a good squad and their peers not being in the right place then they will prosper. And if we aren’t doing the same then we will suffer. No one in our support moans when we beat Celtic or Rangers and says that’s not right, we shouldn’t be competing with teams that can afford players much better than ours, we just enjoy it and soak it up.

Football is a leveller. It is certainly meritocratic when it comes to playing ability, 99.9% of players will make it to where they should. It fluctuates a bit more with clubs, because the dynamic is so much more fluid. The right manager, the right couple of players, and that’s why it happens. Motherwell and Aberdeen were both strong challengers IIRC in the mid to late nineties, maybe early noughties. That was a lot to do with a Celtc side that fluctuated from season to season, meaning Rankgers were the only target.

We have no god-given right to expect top four or whatever, we have to earn it. And we shouldn’t moan when so-called lesser clubs seem to be out-performing us. It just means they are making a better fist of it and we need to improve on what we are doing.

Aberdeen have no god given right to be above those clubs. Yet they are, every season. I really dont think its too much to expect a team of Hibs size to at least be competing around the top half of the table. Thats not entitlement. We have more than 10k more fans at home than these teams. We should be able to compete with them.

[hhibs]

Agreed. I am absolutely baffled why any Hibs fan would settle for mid table mediocrity. We had the third highest average attendance last season, we have huge potential. Maybe we don’t deserve to be successful with supporters like this.



Sems to have been always the Hibs way,Tom Hart era excepted ,we have never really pulled our weight or reached our true potential.
The only time since is after the Cup win and promotion and our gaurdians truly stuffed that up.

[wookie70]

Today is a sad day. It did not work out.

I know I am in a large minority but while our signings have not been great so far we are not so far off from being half decent. I genuinely think we are mid table material – no better no worse.

If it had been my call I would not have sacked Hecky and would have given him a good deal longer but that debate is now of no value. For the record Paul leaves winning 12, drawing 11 and losing 9. Far better than most Hibernian managers.

What is of value is to appraise what went wrong and how it can be rectified.

Firstly, the last few seasons have been easy street. No Rangers and a poor Celtic. Now it is different Rangers and Celtic, like it or not, are far, far improved with budgets 5x ours. Sure we have double the budget of say Motherwell but frankly that is a rounding error while third tier English clubs pay well above what we do.

Before we won the cup Hibernian were in a dire mess. An angry support, a merry-go-round of managers and over 100 players in 5 seasons, unrealistic expectations, a negative vibe and a half empty stadium, even for the big games. My interest was waining.

Stubbs/ Demptster and the cup changed all that and for three or four short seasons Hibernian had a support, positivity and atmosphere like never before (in my life time). Today, if Hibs.net is the barometer, our support is angry and has gone back to every negativity of the past.

Give me a break from 'I will not accept this mediocrity' sanctimonious crap from some posters. Take the plank out of your eye before removing the spec from others. We are in danger of learning nothing and making this club ungovernable through a volatile, angry and very short term results driven, support. The real world operates a a bit differently and todays sacking could well cost well over £1m by the time all the impacts are felt from disregarded players, new budgets, ideas and styles. And frankly there is absolutely no guarantee it will work at all. It is a 50-50 punt for being a substantial sum worse off.

Some of our support never accepted Hecky from day one. They harked back to the loud mouthed days of Lennon, whose record latterly was very poor. The truth is we had and lost an outstanding midfield through no ones fault other than much more money elsewhere. McGinn was a once in a generation superstar and for a while we had the best midfield in Scotland who could turn a game on a six-pence. That is a rare thing. Was it Stubbs/ Dempster or luck who found it? Who knows, who cares- it was here.

Frankly in no sensible industry/activity is success judged on a six month time frame. That is what pathetically happens in football. Our poor new owner. I do hope he knows what he has let himself in for. A support with rightly with high expectations but also one who turn very quickly and frankly given our budget a complete miss-match between expectations and reality. Your unrealistic expectations made Hibernian an impossible gig before the cup win and there is a danger you will do the same again.

I am quite sure this post will be shouted down. Go ahead if you like but things cannot continue like this. Boo if you like, get at the new manager if it makes you feel good, but I’m out. Create a fun supportive vibe and I am in, almost regardless of the results. I suspect I am not he only one.

Pretty much exactly how I feel and I'm more worried about the near future now than I was last week mostly due to the financial issues that will have been caused by Heck's sacking. Keeping my fingers crossed but my gut says it will turn out to be a Fenlon type decision

[worcesterhibby]

Aberdeen have no god given right to be above those clubs. Yet they are, every season. I really dont think its too much to expect a team of Hibs size to at least be competing around the top half of the table. Thats not entitlement. We have more than 10k more fans at home than these teams. We should be able to compete with them.

In the last 25 seasons Aberdeen have failed to make the top 5 on 13 occasions..so more than 50% of the time. They do not finish above Motherwell, Kilmarnock etc every season..they do it less than 50% of the time. Just like every other club in Scotland, ourselves included.

Yes they have had a good run for the past 5 years, helped by the fact that Rangers were not in the league for most of it. but previous to that, between 2009-10 and 2012/13 they came 9th, 9th, 9th, 8th

I agree that we should be more consistent, but let's not ignore the facts. NO team outwith the old firm have managed to consistently come in the top 5 most of the time in the modern game (last 25 years). Hearts have actually been the closest, but as we know that was through overspending ( and stealing for charities) that led to administration.

[Barman Stanton]

In the last 25 seasons Aberdeen have failed to make the top 5 on 13 occasions..so more than 50% of the time. They do not finish above Motherwell, Kilmarnock etc every season..they do it less than 50% of the time. Just like every other club in Scotland, ourselves included.

Yes they have had a good run for the past 5 years, helped by the fact that Rangers were not in the league for most of it. but previous to that, between 2009-10 and 2012/13 they came 9th, 9th, 9th, 8th

I agree that we should be more consistent, but let's not ignore the facts. NO team outwith the old firm have managed to consistently come in the top 5 most of the time in the modern game (last 25 years). Hearts have actually been the closest, but as we know that was through overspending ( and stealing for charities) that led to administration.

So should we just be happy being in the Premier League then? What exactly are your ambitions?

[HibeeHibernian4]

In the last 25 seasons Aberdeen have failed to make the top 5 on 13 occasions..so more than 50% of the time. They do not finish above Motherwell, Kilmarnock etc every season..they do it less than 50% of the time. Just like every other club in Scotland, ourselves included.

Yes they have had a good run for the past 5 years, helped by the fact that Rangers were not in the league for most of it. but previous to that, between 2009-10 and 2012/13 they came 9th, 9th, 9th, 8th

I agree that we should be more consistent, but let's not ignore the facts. NO team outwith the old firm have managed to consistently come in the top 5 most of the time in the modern game (last 25 years). Hearts have actually been the closest, but as we know that was through overspending ( and stealing for charities) that led to administration.

Too objective and considered a post for most people on here. :agree:

[hughio]

I can only see a lot of truth in what you say.

To the OP.

You are right that a lot of people will "shout you down"...just see above.

Nonetheless FWIW I commend you, as others have,for a well-constructed post.

As Brog says we need to rediscover Hibs class and get away from the polarized, gobby stuff that seems to take over every thread.

GGTTH .

[hughio]

Too objective and considered a post for most people on here. :agree:

:agree:

[worcesterhibby]

So should we just be happy being in the Premier League then? What exactly are your ambitions?

My ambition is that Hibs are competing at the top end of the table every season. I'm sure that is all of our ambitions. However the poster I quoted stated that Aberdeen always finished above the likes of Killi and Motherwell and I thought we should maybe deal in facts rather than fairy tales. To be fair if you had asked me 3 weeks ago what percentage of the the time have Aberdeen finished in the top 5 in the last 25 years I would probably have guessed about 80%..the facts are different though, so I'm not sure why you have a problem with dealing in facts.

[Barman Stanton]

My ambition is that Hibs are competing at the top end of the table every season. I'm sure that is all of our ambitions. However the poster I quoted stated that Aberdeen always finished above the likes of Killi and Motherwell and I thought we should maybe deal in facts rather than fairy tales. To be fair if you had asked me 3 weeks ago what percentage of the the time have Aberdeen finished in the top 5 in the last 25 years I would probably have guessed about 80%..the facts are different though, so I'm not sure why you have a problem with dealing in facts.

That was me that said that. Clearly I was talking about in more recent years. I wasn't going back 25 years to be honest. I don't have a problem dealing with facts, I admit I obviously thought they had a better record than they did. You can call that fairytales if you like.

I just personally think that with average crowds of 17k+, our infrastructure pretty much done, no debt and us being a capital city team that we should probably aspire to be better than bottom 6 in a poor league. To many Hibs fans seem to be happy to settle with being bang average.

[southsider]

I agree with quite a lot of that.

There’s a point that struck a chord with me-

Yes there are excellent arguments for sacking the manager but it is a seven figure outlay for a non guaranteed outcome. History proves that this seldom changes things long term so it is little surprise that the owner left it as long as he could.

Interesting to read a bit of dispassionate, open minded thinking on the bigger picture as well as an understanding of where we rank in the scheme of things.

Excellent post IMO
The post was nonsense and no ifs no buts we should have sacked him 6 weeks ago. Underestimated the game up here and I would not give ANY of his signings house room. Worst since TB.

[worcesterhibby]

That was me that said that. Clearly I was talking about in more recent years. I wasn't going back 25 years to be honest. I don't have a problem dealing with facts, I admit I obviously thought they had a better record than they did. You can call that fairytales if you like.

I just personally think that with average crowds of 17k+, our infrastructure pretty much done, no debt and us being a capital city team that we should probably aspire to be better than bottom 6 in a poor league. To many Hibs fans seem to be happy to settle with being bang average.

No offence meant by the fairlytales line...as I pointed out, until I checked the facts a few weeks ago because of a similar debate on here, I would have assumed Aberdeen record was much better as well.

Also as I said my aspiration for the club would be to be competing at the top half of the table every year..I was just trying to throw some facts in to the mix to help decide if that is actually a realistic expectation. I think it's really key here to separate the difference between Expectation and Aspiration. Our Aspiration should absolutely be the top end of the table, every year and plenty of good cup runs, with a cup success maybe every decade or so as well. However we also have to temper those aspirations with the realisation that no team outwith Celtic has managed to finish in the top half of the table every year without going bust in the process. This should tell us that we have to accept that there will be times that we fail to achieve our aspirations and that doesn't necessarily mean that the Board are frauds and we should be marching on Easter road with flaming torches.

We do have a financial advantage over a number of teams in our league, however the financial gap is not as big between us and Motherwell, as it is between us and Celtic or Rangers. When we get it right, it means we have signed good players and have a good manager and that almost certainly means they will get poached by bigger teams and we will have to start again, that makes consistency very difficult. If it was easy to choose the right manager, every time, Manchester Utd would still be one of the best teams in England, they are not (despite their riches) and are being out competed by teams with smaller budgets (such as Leicester and Spurs).

Yes we should demand high aspirations, but we should also accept that we do not have a bottomless pit of money to buy our way out of poor manager or player recruitment like Man City or PSG. So Aspirations and expectations are not necessarily the same thing.

[Barman Stanton]

No offence meant by the fairlytales line...as I pointed out, until I checked the facts a few weeks ago because of a similar debate on here, I would have assumed Aberdeen record was much better as well.

Also as I said my aspiration for the club would be to be competing at the top half of the table every year..I was just trying to throw some facts in to the mix to help decide if that is actually a realistic expectation. I think it's really key here to separate the difference between Expectation and Aspiration. Our Aspiration should absolutely be the top end of the table, every year and plenty of good cup runs, with a cup success maybe every decade or so as well. However we also have to temper those aspirations with the realisation that no team outwith Celtic has managed to finish in the top half of the table every year without going bust in the process. This should tell us that we have to accept that there will be times that we fail to achieve our aspirations and that doesn't necessarily mean that the Board are frauds and we should be marching on Easter road with flaming torches.

We do have a financial advantage over a number of teams in our league, however the financial gap is not as big between us and Motherwell, as it is between us and Celtic or Rangers. When we get it right, it means we have signed good players and have a good manager and that almost certainly means they will get poached by bigger teams and we will have to start again, that makes consistency very difficult. If it was easy to choose the right manager, every time, Manchester Utd would still be one of the best teams in England, they are not (despite their riches) and are being out competed by teams with smaller budgets (such as Leicester and Spurs).

Yes we should demand high aspirations, but we should also accept that we do not have a bottomless pit of money to buy our way out of poor manager or player recruitment like Man City or PSG. So Aspirations and expectations are not necessarily the same thing.

You have to remember that Hibs fans have been through a lot of pain over the last couple of decades. We have watched as the club built a complete new stadium and invested into infrastructure to the detriment of the team. We have watched our neighbours outspend us and beat us in some big games. The thinking was always that the pain would be worth it in the end when we have the advantage over our peers. I think this has contributed to the ill feeling among the support. We were not meant to go through all just to be fighting relegation.

I don’t think many Hibs fans have overly ambitious expectations. We generally know our place. Of course nothing is guaranteed, but I would expect hostility when ANY big team is fighting relegation.

[MB62]

You have to remember that Hibs fans have been through a lot of pain over the last couple of decades. We have watched as the club built a complete new stadium and invested into infrastructure to the detriment of the team. We have watched our neighbours outspend us and beat us in some big games. The thinking was always that the pain would be worth it in the end when we have the advantage over our peers. I think this has contributed to the ill feeling among the support. We were not meant to go through all just to be fighting relegation.

I don’t think many Hibs fans have overly ambitious expectations. We generally know our place. Of course nothing is guaranteed, but I would expect hostility when ANY big team is fighting relegation.

:top marks

Thanks for saving me typing all this, yer spot on :thumbsup:

[worcesterhibby]

You have to remember that Hibs fans have been through a lot of pain over the last couple of decades. We have watched as the club built a complete new stadium and invested into infrastructure to the detriment of the team. We have watched our neighbours outspend us and beat us in some big games. The thinking was always that the pain would be worth it in the end when we have the advantage over our peers. I think this has contributed to the ill feeling among the support. We were not meant to go through all just to be fighting relegation.

I don’t think many Hibs fans have overly ambitious expectations. We generally know our place. Of course nothing is guaranteed, but I would expect hostility when ANY big team is fighting relegation.

I don't disagree with any of that..I guess I was just trying to put forward a logical, less emotional overview. However I fully accept that football for a fan is a highly emotional subject and logic often goes out of the window (and I include myself in that). Yes we have every right to be unhappy if we are fighting relegation, yes it was the right thing to sack Heckingbottom, yes we should be striving for decent periods of relative success. I guess what I was trying to counter-act was the type of post on here that says "Hibs should be top 4 every year...no excuses, no blips..anything else is failure and the board should be sacked along with the manager" I realise I am paraphrasing rather than quoting anyone directly there, but you and I both know that similar is posted on here every day. So when someone posts - "Aberdeen do it every year - So why can't we ?" I just feel it's important to point out that actually they don't.

They have done for the last few years though and it would be nice to think Hibs could reach that level of consistency for sure.

GGTTH :flag:

[wookie70]

That was me that said that. Clearly I was talking about in more recent years. I wasn't going back 25 years to be honest. I don't have a problem dealing with facts, I admit I obviously thought they had a better record than they did. You can call that fairytales if you like.

I just personally think that with average crowds of 17k+, our infrastructure pretty much done, no debt and us being a capital city team that we should probably aspire to be better than bottom 6 in a poor league. To many Hibs fans seem to be happy to settle with being bang average.

Aspirations are fine but you have to deal with reality and as said no team, when spending within their budget, always finish in the top six with the exception of Celtc and in years to come, if they don't go bust, The Rangers. I get fans wanting rid of managers when they are worried about relegation but it is expensive with no guarantee of success and can have longer and short term implications. So can relegation of course but we are in a league where a couple of wins would have seen us in a position that would be deemed to be reasonable if not aspirational. My worry, and it was the same for Lennon who went on as bad a run and who I didn't rate or particularly like, is that acting can actually be worse than waiting. There comes a tipping point which most fans seemed to have reach very early with Heck but in my view we were about a month away from having to make a decision. It could easily come back to haunt us but hopefully it will be a Stubbs like appointment rather than a Butcher one.

[Barman Stanton]

Aspirations are fine but you have to deal with reality and as said no team, when spending within their budget, always finish in the top six with the exception of Celtc and in years to come, if they don't go bust, The Rangers. I get fans wanting rid of managers when they are worried about relegation but it is expensive with no guarantee of success and can have longer and short term implications. So can relegation of course but we are in a league where a couple of wins would have seen us in a position that would be deemed to be reasonable if not aspirational. My worry, and it was the same for Lennon who went on as bad a run and who I didn't rate or particularly like, is that acting can actually be worse than waiting. There comes a tipping point which most fans seemed to have reach very early with Heck but in my view we were about a month away from having to make a decision. It could easily come back to haunt us but hopefully it will be a Stubbs like appointment rather than a Butcher one.

I was one of those that was constantly saying give him and his players more time. But the reality was that we were extremely poor and this was the right time to make the change imo. I just dont see any signs at all that he was the right man or that he would turn it around. I agree you need to give people time, but you also have to realise when you have made a mistake and make the change.

The proof in the pudding is normally when a manager has his own team, and lets be honest he has made a complete mess of that. For me releasing our 2 defensive midfielders and not replacing them was his biggest mistake. This decision has put our already fragile defense under way more pressure than was needed. Clearly he wanted a defensive midfielder as Ojo was his first choice signing. Seemed he had no plan B there. (of course if he had no say in any of this then he has been thrown under the bus).

[blackpoolhibs]

I was one of those that was constantly saying give him and his players more time. But the reality was that we were extremely poor and this was the right time to make the change imo. I just dont see any signs at all that he was the right man or that he would turn it around. I agree you need to give people time, but you also have to realise when you have made a mistake and make the change.

The proof in the pudding is normally when a manager has his own team, and lets be honest he has made a complete mess of that. For me releasing our 2 defensive midfielders and not replacing them was his biggest mistake. This decision has put our already fragile defense under way more pressure than was needed. Clearly he wanted a defensive midfielder as Ojo was his first choice signing. Seemed he had no plan B there. (of course if he had no say in any of this then he has been thrown under the bus).

Vela. :faf:

[worcesterhibby]

I was one of those that was constantly saying give him and his players more time. But the reality was that we were extremely poor and this was the right time to make the change imo. I just dont see any signs at all that he was the right man or that he would turn it around. I agree you need to give people time, but you also have to realise when you have made a mistake and make the change.

The proof in the pudding is normally when a manager has his own team, and lets be honest he has made a complete mess of that. For me releasing our 2 defensive midfielders and not replacing them was his biggest mistake. This decision has put our already fragile defense under way more pressure than was needed. Clearly he wanted a defensive midfielder as Ojo was his first choice signing. Seemed he had no plan B there. (of course if he had no say in any of this then he has been thrown under the bus).

again agree entirely.