2 up front

[eastcoasthibby]

I know its been said since the start of the season that we should be playing 2 up front ...and have to say I am not convinced with the balance of the squad that we have that it's best ..however having now seen the disaster that comes with playing 1 up front and watching the second half of the yesterday's game and the 2nd half of the Livie game it's blatantly obvious that we need to start the next couple of games that way and let's see what happens !! Which in turn should mean a change of shape in midfield as well ....probably a step too far for Heckys very limited tactical thinking ! Something has to change and the going to a 2 up front seems sensible ....if we are to start scoring goals and stop giving teams loads of time to build from the back ...let's see what happens 😊

[Baldy Foghorn]

Correct, his stubborness to play 1 striker from start is killing us. He had a free hit at them yesterday and shat it from the off

[Heisenberg]

Correct, his stubborness to play 1 striker from start is killing us. He had a free hit at them yesterday and shat it from the off

Only went for it when we were losing for the second game in a row. He’s not got a clue.

[Jim44]

Firstly, I hope this thread is redundant by lunchtime tomorrow. Secondly if it’s not, I Hope PH isn’t reading it, as he’ll stubbornly dig his heels in firmer and stick with his two dimensional thinking that one striker is the way to go.

[we are hibs]

Plays 2 upfront 2nd half wednesday and we score twice and play better.


Starts yesterday with 1 again. Play 2 upfront 2nd half and Score and play better (although we couldnt get much worse)


Not rocket science

[hibsbollah]

Disagree. Playing two up front isn't some sort of panacea that makes you more attacking or more effective. I think there's only 2 teams in our league play 2 front men and it's similarly unfashionable in other countries.

It's probably more urgent that we deal with combination of poor workplace culture, poor dressing room culture, lack of discipline, poor recruitment and poor leadership. Formations are a minor issue. But for what it's worth, a 451 can quickly be a 433 when you're attacking, the ubiquitous 4231 can easily give you 3 or even 5 attacking players with overlapping fullbacks and the three midfielders bombing past a deep striker. But none of it matters if you haven't got the personnel.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Disagree. Playing two up front isn't some sort of panacea that makes you more attacking or more effective. I think there's only 2 teams in our league play 2 front men and it's similarly unfashionable in other countries.

It's probably more urgent that we deal with combination of poor workplace culture, poor dressing room culture, lack of discipline, poor recruitment and poor leadership. Formations are a minor issue.

We were better in both second halves Wednesday and yesterday with two strikers

[Pretty Boy]

2 up front isn't the be all and end all but we simply don't have the players to play the 1 up front style PH wants.

By luck or design he stumbled across something that was fairly effective in the 2nd half in midweek and shelved it again at the 1st opportubity. I didn't see the game last night but by all accounts our best spell was once again when we had both Doidge and Kamberi on the park.

Football is as much about playing to your strengths as it is about sticking dogmatically to a philosophy, especially when the philosophy is quite evidently not working.

[B.H.F.C]

Disagree. Playing two up front isn't some sort of panacea that makes you more attacking or more effective. I think there's only 2 teams in our league play 2 front men and it's similarly unfashionable in other countries.

It's probably more urgent that we deal with combination of poor workplace culture, poor dressing room culture, lack of discipline, poor recruitment and poor leadership. Formations are a minor issue. But for what it's worth, a 451 can quickly be a 433 when you're attacking, the ubiquitous 4231 can easily give you 3 or even 5 attacking players with overlapping fullbacks and the three midfielders bombing past a deep striker. But none of it matters if you haven't got the personnel.

Playing two up front doesn’t guarantee you’ll be better or score more goals.

We don’t have a striker capable of playing up front on their own though.

[Unseen work]

To me is going for it or playing better 2ns half is more to do with the fact we’ve been battered in the first half and need to fully go for it to try and salvage a result.

I don’t see the big fascination with 2 strikers as very few teams play with one now a days. 1 out and out striker isn’t negative now a days.

If we played a 442 I think we would see our midfield overrun.

[hibsbollah]

We were better in both second halves Wednesday and yesterday with two strikers

I watched it too, and I think we got better because Celtic took their foot off the gas.

Pretty Boy is right that it's about playing to your strengths. But neither Kamberi or Doidge are playing well enough for us. A fully fit Boyle breaking from deeper positions is the best chance of getting goals from open play at the moment.

[FitbaFolkKen]

Gary Caldwell(I know) on the radio yesterday said Doidge is the type of striker that needs a partner. He also said it is the first time he has seen him play. It amazes me that he can see that from 90 minutes but our management team persist in playing him as a lone striker.


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[BoomtownHibees]

To me is going for it or playing better 2ns half is more to do with the fact we’ve been battered in the first half and need to fully go for it to try and salvage a result.

I don’t see the big fascination with 2 strikers as very few teams play with one now a days. 1 out and out striker isn’t negative now a days.

If we played a 442 I think we would see our midfield overrun.

Playing with the 1 hasn’t worked at all this season however when we have played with 2, we have looked a wee bit better.

Surely it’s worth a try from the start rather than doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results

[Jim44]

Disagree. Playing two up front isn't some sort of panacea that makes you more attacking or more effective. I think there's only 2 teams in our league play 2 front men and it's similarly unfashionable in other countries.

It's probably more urgent that we deal with combination of poor workplace culture, poor dressing room culture, lack of discipline, poor recruitment and poor leadership. Formations are a minor issue. But for what it's worth, a 451 can quickly be a 433 when you're attacking, the ubiquitous 4231 can easily give you 3 or even 5 attacking players with overlapping fullbacks and the three midfielders bombing past a deep striker. But none of it matters if you haven't got the personnel.

I see where you’re coming from but I still think we’re more likely to find the net with two strikers on the pitch as has been seen recent games. D + K > D Simple algebra. Mind you I was poor at maths at school. :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

Gary Caldwell(I know) on the radio yesterday said Doidge is the type of striker that needs a partner. He also said it is the first time he has seen him play. It amazes me that he can see that from 90 minutes but our management team persist in playing him as a lone striker.


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Caldwell, as well as being a prize prick, is from that generation where it was all about 442 right from school, a big strong man and a fast wee man playing off each other. It can be a bit of a fall back position for ex pros looking for something to say, like 'your keeper shouldn't get beat at his near post'.

[Pretty Boy]

To me is going for it or playing better 2ns half is more to do with the fact we’ve been battered in the first half and need to fully go for it to try and salvage a result.

I don’t see the big fascination with 2 strikers as very few teams play with one now a days. 1 out and out striker isn’t negative now a days.

If we played a 442 I think we would see our midfield overrun.

As I said the issue is we have built a squad that is incapable of playing the 1 up front effectively. It relies on pace and energy out wide and that is non existent in our squad. The only player with anything resembling explosive pace has been injured all year. As it is we have been trying central midfielders stuck out wide, Newell (who seems slower than a week in Staughton) and Horgan who flatters to deceive. We have also experimented with Kamberi and Shaw wide left which didn't work.

If the plan all along has been to play 1 up front then it just calls the recruitment and managers judgement into question again. I'm not interested in what is fashionable. If we are the only team in the world to play 352 or 442 then I couldn't care less if it is more effective than the current set up.

[Smartie]

To me is going for it or playing better 2ns half is more to do with the fact we’ve been battered in the first half and need to fully go for it to try and salvage a result.

I don’t see the big fascination with 2 strikers as very few teams play with one now a days. 1 out and out striker isn’t negative now a days.

If we played a 442 I think we would see our midfield overrun.

I agree, but we're in that awkward position where we don't have any strikers who can do justice to playing up front on their own and no midfielders who would make a go of a flat 442.

352 would be my pick but Hecky is a strict back 4 man. A diamond in midfield might work.

I've never really seen Hibs do justice to any one up front system, all of our good teams have had 2 strikers. It might not be fashionable in the world football sense but having seen us play well with 2 strikers in the second half against Livi I'd be inclined to try to find a way to get them both onto the park together again.

Last night was a tough call, it might have seemed a bit gung-ho to go with the 2 strikers against Celtic leaving us short in midfield but against Ross County, Livingston and St Johnstone it shouldn't be asking too much.

[where'stheslope]

With the players we have at the moment, it weakens our team to play 2 up front as it takes a player from midfield!
We are not great at defending at the moment, and because of it we need our midfield to try and bolster our defense!
Everyone says attack is the best defense but with our smallish midfielders and our defense, it would be suicidal!!!!

[lucky]

2 up front would be start but Mallan and Vela also need dropped. Doidge did ok yesterday and does bring a presence up front he just lacks a goal scoring threat. But i think he will turn out ok for us. But the team lack pace and dig and bringing Boyle in only gives us pace. We need a midfield enforcer a Scott Brown type of player.

[hibsbollah]

I see where you’re coming from but I still think we’re more likely to find the net with two strikers on the pitch as has been seen recent games. D + K > D Simple algebra. Mind you I was poor at maths at school. :greengrin

There's nothing wrong with 2 up front (I don't mind the idea of Boyle playing off Doidges being a basketball power forward and knocking balls down to him,for example) I just think it's not the reason we're not winning games.

[#2 Double Tap]

1 striker or 2 is not going to change things for us until we find the right mix or fix the CM area.

[BoomtownHibees]

With the players we have at the moment, it weakens our team to play 2 up front as it takes a player from midfield!
We are not great at defending at the moment, and because of it we need our midfield to try and bolster our defense!
Everyone says attack is the best defense but with our smallish midfielders and our defense, it would be suicidal!!!!

Playing 352 would combat most of what you have pointed out here I reckon.

Rocky

Porteous
Jackson
Hanlon

Boyle
Slivka
Hallberg
Allan
Stevenson

Flo
Doidge

Could possibly play Boyle up top with Flo and play a RB at RWB

[FRes Hibbie]

I think it’s clear that we’ve played better with 2 strikers recently. Whether that’s because it suits the players better or it’s because we were chasing the games is debatable. I personally think it’s a bit of both.

[ancient hibee]

Our success against Celtic in recent seasons has come from playing two forward players(whether strikers or not)who got on top of their defenders and stopped them playing the ball out from the back and in some of the ER games causing panic in their defence.Yesterday by using a guy so slow he just can’t panic anyone it gave Celtic all the time in the world to settle in comfortably and find their rhythm.What’s more Lennon knew we would start that way because Hecky is so fixed in his ideas.Once Kamberi came on just having Doidge there without doing much occupied their defenders and Kamberi scores.It really isn’t rocket science that if you have a non tackling midfield you have to put pressure on further forward.

[CloudSquall]

Our midfield is being overrun with 5 in the middle, I don't understand how our midfield could get any worse by playing an extra striker instead.

I'd like to see Kamberi and Shaw up front with Allan in behind, Middleton and Boyle on the wings and Hallberg and Slivka sitting behind them.


I don't believe two up front will magically have us challenging for Europe but it is beyond me that anyone could believe Doidge up front on his own is still the answer.

[Keith_M]

We should get a female head coach

[where'stheslope]

We should get a female head coach
Good shout!!! At least she would be likely to change her mind!!!!!!:confused::confused::confused:

[Keith_M]

Good shout!!! At least she would be likely to change her mind!!!!!!:confused::confused::confused:



I was thinking more along the lines of "two up front" but, yeah, that as well.

[Jim44]

Good shout!!! At least she would be likely to change her mind!!!!!!:confused::confused::confused:


I was thinking more along the lines of "two up front" but, yeah, that as well.

Keep sexism out of football. :tsk tsk::tsk tsk::tsk tsk:

[hibsquaker]

Playing 352 would combat most of what you have pointed out here I reckon.

Rocky

Porteous
Jackson
Hanlon

Boyle
Slivka
Hallberg
Allan
Stevenson

Flo
Doidge

Could possibly play Boyle up top with Flo and play a RB at RWB

This

[HFC 0-7]

Playing 352 would combat most of what you have pointed out here I reckon.

Rocky

Porteous
Jackson
Hanlon

Boyle
Slivka
Hallberg
Allan
Stevenson

Flo
Doidge

Could possibly play Boyle up top with Flo and play a RB at RWB

Wouldn’t risk Boyle as a wing back for a while yet, the amount of running required in that position could be a bit too soon for him.

[erin go bragh]

Rocky

Porteous
Jackson
Hanlon

Naismith
James

Slivka
Allan
Mallberg

Doidge /Shaw ( criminal how he has been treated imo )
Kamberi

[munchar]

Disagree. Playing two up front isn't some sort of panacea that makes you more attacking or more effective. I think there's only 2 teams in our league play 2 front men and it's similarly unfashionable in other countries.

It's probably more urgent that we deal with combination of poor workplace culture, poor dressing room culture, lack of discipline, poor recruitment and poor leadership. Formations are a minor issue. But for what it's worth, a 451 can quickly be a 433 when you're attacking, the ubiquitous 4231 can easily give you 3 or even 5 attacking players with overlapping fullbacks and the three midfielders bombing past a deep striker. But none of it matters if you haven't got the personnel.

Great point. Totally agree.
If you haven’t got the personnel, you have to have a game plan. Celtic always looking to get in behind the defence out wide, so baffling that we never had a CDM or 2 helping out the full backs. 1 up top as you say, can become a 3, if say Boyle & Horgan out wide.

[FitbaFolkKen]

Caldwell, as well as being a prize prick, is from that generation where it was all about 442 right from school, a big strong man and a fast wee man playing off each other. It can be a bit of a fall back position for ex pros looking for something to say, like 'your keeper shouldn't get beat at his near post'.

That’s all very well but it’s probably right in this case, stopped clock and all that!


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[Winston Ingram]

Genuine question - can anyone think of a successful side that has played a front 2 in the last decade?

[bingo70]

Genuine question - can anyone think of a successful side that has played a front 2 in the last decade?

This has been asked before and although I can’t remember the answers, there were some, even if it is pretty rare.

I can handle one up front, but he has to have two quick wingers on the flanks so you can counter attack quickly or push defences deeper.

Playing one up front with two wide midfielders, rather than wide forwards is what’s causing the problem, and why I’ve got such a beef with the signing of Newell when it was clearly a quick winger we needed.

Boyle coming back will undoubtably help us become a more exciting side gong forward but until he does come back we don’t have the players to play one up front IMO.


Oh.....Kamberi and McLaren did well up front together a couple of seasons back and contributed to a great run we went on.....there’s one example of it working.

[CloudSquall]

Genuine question - can anyone think of a successful side that has played a front 2 in the last decade?

Juventus

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Getting Boyle back is a bonus and offers a quick link with striker(s) in whatever formation we play

I'd go 352 with Boyle at RWB

Get our NUMBER ONE back in goal

**** this "no money left" nonsense. If we genuinely have no money I seriously worry about our finances. Sign EFE AMBROSE!! And have him alongside Porto and Hanlon

Lewy obvs LWB

Somehow find someone to play CDM alongside Hallberg and Allan with what we've got

Kamberi plus Doidge up top

[Vault Boy]

Genuine question - can anyone think of a successful side that has played a front 2 in the last decade?

I'm not a huge advocate of 2 striker tactics personally - off the top of my head though, Leicester when they won the PL.

[Andy74]

Personally think Doidge is fine up front on his own. We need better pace and delivery from the wide areas though.

I think Doidge is a better scorer than he’s shown and we’ve got much bigger issues elsewhere.

[we are hibs]

Genuine question - can anyone think of a successful side that has played a front 2 in the last decade?

Hibs in 2016 :wink:

[B.H.F.C]

Genuine question - can anyone think of a successful side that has played a front 2 in the last decade?

When we’ve had a decent side in the last few years, we played with two up top.

Got to the league cup final and won’t the Scottish with two up top.

Finished fourth with record points with two up top

We don’t have someone capable of playing as the one up front.

[CloudSquall]

Personally think Doidge is fine up front on his own. We need better pace and delivery from the wide areas though.

I think Doidge is a better scorer than he’s shown and we’ve got much bigger issues elsewhere.

Jesus wept, we deserve to go down.

[B.H.F.C]

Personally think Doidge is fine up front on his own. We need better pace and delivery from the wide areas though.

I think Doidge is a better scorer than he’s shown and we’ve got much bigger issues elsewhere.

We’d have bigger issues if he was scoring. But he isn’t, so it is a big issue.

We are getting players in to the final third and in support more at the moment with Allan, Horgan, Boyle, and Mallan all chipping in with goals in the last few league games. Yet Doidge, in the last few games, hasn’t threatened the goals at all.

[BoomtownHibees]

Personally think Doidge is fine up front on his own. We need better pace and delivery from the wide areas though.

I think Doidge is a better scorer than he’s shown and we’ve got much bigger issues elsewhere.

What makes you think he’s “fine up front on his own?” He’s has been piss-poor and has yet to score in the league.

[Nicho87]

Genuine question - can anyone think of a successful side that has played a front 2 in the last decade?

Leicester won the league playing 4-4-2 every week

[basehibby]

I agree with the OP - playing one up top this season has not worked out for us. Certainly at home to the likes of St Johnstone and Ross County I would have liked to see us play with two up top. Our strikers have not been scoring much this season and I think that could change somewhat if they were less isolated.

[wookie70]

Hibs in 2016 :wink: and when Lennon had his best spell with Flo and McLaren. Getting players into the final third is more important than formation imo. Our movement is terrible so often good balls across the box find noone. Think of how Stevenson's crossing got much better when McLaren arrived. Same crosses but a player gambling to get across the near post defender. Doesn't matter if that player is in a front two or a Pat McGinley type.

[Winston Ingram]

When we’ve had a decent side in the last few years, we played with two up top.

Got to the league cup final and won’t the Scottish with two up top.

Finished fourth with record points with two up top

We don’t have someone capable of playing as the one up front.

It’s debatable if we were actually that good. We were a good side in cups but average in the league.

[Winston Ingram]

Leicester won the league playing 4-4-2 every week

That’s debatable. Okazaki was pretty much a 10 and spent most his time scurrying about midfield

[FilipinoHibs]

Personally think Doidge is fine up front on his own. We need better pace and delivery from the wide areas though.

I think Doidge is a better scorer than he’s shown and we’ve got much bigger issues elsewhere.

He is hiding it well. 1 in 17 in the championship. Zero against an SPL in league and cup.

[BILLYHIBS]

I like Doidge but maybe his level is League 2 or Conference or whatever it is they call it down there

[sauzeelegod]

Genuine question - can anyone think of a successful side that has played a front 2 in the last decade?

Atletico Madrid.

[B.H.F.C]

That’s debatable. Okazaki was pretty much a 10 and spent most his time scurrying about midfield

You asked about success. Success for Hibs is winning a cup or qualifying for Europe. We’ve done both in recent seasons and it’s been done playing two up front. It doesn’t mean playing two up front is always the answer but you need to play a system that suits your players. Currently, we done have anybody capable of playing as a lone striker.

[Edinburgh Green]

He is hiding it well. 1 in 17 in the championship. Zero against an SPL in league and cup.

He’s scored in the cup

[ancient hibee]

Personally think Doidge is fine up front on his own. We need better pace and delivery from the wide areas though.

I think Doidge is a better scorer than he’s shown and we’ve got much bigger issues elsewhere.

Far too early in the day for jokes.

[Smartie]

Personally think Doidge is fine up front on his own. We need better pace and delivery from the wide areas though.

I think Doidge is a better scorer than he’s shown and we’ve got much bigger issues elsewhere.

He's been a bit hot and cold, but I don't think Doidge himself is necessarily the problem. His confidence looks shot and his finishing has been horrible so far but the goals he scored in the cup showed that he has it in him to finish with a bit of composure. When you only play one striker and he's not scoring and out of confidence, it puts you in a perilous position.

The midfield is where it is all wrong for us - both in the middle and out wide. Hopefully Boyle's return will help but our defence don't get enough cover and the forward doesn't get enough support. The midfield is all wrong.

Doidge is one of a good few players who it just hasn't happened for so far but who in the right team I could see making a decent impact.