A little bit of ambition too much to ask boardroom??

[tonyrougier123]

We signed a load of players struggling at our club.

The players were there in the summer to bring in.

Steph omeonga

Efe ambrose

Lawrence shankland

Joe tortalano

Just a few examples of the sort of spine our team needed.

No one can tell me these boys went on to bigger things than hibs.

Its not asking much surely?

Last season we as the fans knew the squad was not balanced well,it cost us a really good coach in neil lennon(some wont agree fair enough).

We brought in heckingbottom got the initial bounce,then we lose the players brought in january who made the difference,even the head coach said himself omeonga was his best defender last season.
Then the summer window opens and business is attended to early,but still the same repetitive recruitment problems are evident in this season's roster.
That is before we even talk about the failings of the coaching team who are unprepared for a relegation dogfight.

If people at the club do not get their heads out of the clouds and see what is happening, we will end up back in the second tier of scottish football scratching our collective heads looking for answers as to what went wrong.

And as a support I think we have adequately raised our collective concerns on the issues needing addressed,across all social media platforms.

Some eloquently and others not so.
But make no mistake we are all hibernian,and thats why we are telling you!!

GGTTH

[oldbutdim]

We signed a load of players struggling at our club.

The players were there in the summer to bring in.

Steph omeonga

Efe ambrose

Lawrence shankland

Joe tortalano

Just a few examples of the sort of spine our team needed.

No one can tell me these boys went on to bigger things than hibs.

Its not asking much surely?

Last season we as the fans knew the squad was not balanced well,it cost us a really good coach in neil lennon(some wont agree fair enough).

We brought in heckingbottom got the initial bounce,then we lose the players brought in january who made the difference,even the head coach said himself omeonga was his best defender last season.
Then the summer window opens and business is attended to early,but still the same repetitive recruitment problems are evident in this season's roster.
That is before we even talk about the failings of the coaching team who are unprepared for a relegation dogfight.

If people at the club do not get their heads out of the clouds and see what is happening, we will end up back in the second tier of scottish football scratching our collective heads looking for answers as to what went wrong.

And as a support I think we have adequately raised our collective concerns on the issues needing addressed,across all social media platforms.

Some eloquently and others not so.
But make no mistake we are all hibernian,and thats why we are telling you!!

GGTTH

Well said.

:agree:

[tonyrougier123]

Well said.

:agree:

You having a sly pop at peoples opinion oldbutdim??😱

[ehf]

We signed a load of players struggling at our club.

The players were there in the summer to bring in.

Steph omeonga

Efe ambrose

Lawrence shankland

Joe tortalano

Just a few examples of the sort of spine our team needed.



GGTTH

Apparently we refused to meet Tortolano's wage demands, so recruited Newell in his place. We were close to a deal for Benny Brazil but there were complications with his agent and Hecky decided to go for Vela instead.

[Aim Here]

We signed a load of players struggling at our club.

The players were there in the summer to bring in.

Steph omeonga

Efe ambrose

Lawrence shankland

Joe tortalano

Just a few examples of the sort of spine our team needed.

No one can tell me these boys went on to bigger things than hibs.

Its not asking much surely?



It is.

Omeonga (or at least Genoa), Ambrose and Shankland were asking for more money than Hibs can afford - or at least they're demanding more money than Hibs think they're worth. Genoa think Omeonga is worth more than we can afford to pay for him (and I'm sure we tried to get his loan extended). Ambrose's wages were only cheap due to a mixture of Neil Lennon's influence and Efe's need for a UK visa - he's able to be more picky now. And we were outbid for Shankland by Dundee United who also have a new owner throwing money at their club, and willing to pay silly money for him - and in United's case, it's not silly. If we get Shankland, there's no guarantee he would make that much financial difference to us by getting us into Europe, say. Having him in Dundee United could easily mean the difference between promotion and another year of second-tier football, making him a much more concrete return on investment, financially speaking. Shankland is worth more to them than he is to us, and Dundee United paid out accordingly. (Sure, we're in relegation territory right now and splurging on players to keep us up might be necessary, but nobody expected that in the summer).

And yes, Tortalano's wage bill is perhaps affordable these days, but I'm not sure his first-team fitba' would be up to scratch after twenty years out of the game.

If you know where to find players of the calibre you suggest, at a price that Hibs can afford, feel free to alert the scouting team, but getting players isn't as easy as you're making out.

[SickBoy32]

Absolutely no excuse to have not went for Shankland, was the most obvious signing of the summer.

Not even sure it’s a question of boardroom ambition as the manager was heavily backed, and let’s be honest he wasted all the funds.

I do however think that the delay in the sacking of the manager shows a lack of ambition/bottle though. Quite incredible he lingers on.

[we are hibs]

Shankland wouldve suffered with the way we play.

[Jim44]

There’s no doubting Shankland’s scoring ability, at least at Championship level, so I’ve never understood the lack of interest in him from Premiership clubs. He would score for fun in a good team at the higher level.

[MWHIBBIES]

Board showed ambition, backed the manager and spent money.

[calumhibee1]

Absolutely no excuse to have not went for Shankland, was the most obvious signing of the summer.

Not even sure it’s a question of boardroom ambition as the manager was heavily backed, and let’s be honest he wasted all the funds.

I do however think that the delay in the sacking of the manager shows a lack of ambition/bottle though. Quite incredible he lingers on.

Do you know we didn’t go for Shankland? Seeing as DU have a wage bill 130% of their turnover and no other players of any real note I wouldn’t be surprised if the wages they’re paying him would have blown us out the water.

[Jim44]

Do you know we didn’t go for Shankland? Seeing as DU have a wage bill 130% of their turnover and no other players of any real note I wouldn’t be surprised if the wages they’re paying him would have blown us out the water.

I’m not doubting this figure, but I always thought that UEFA or FIFA had rules about the wage bill to turnover amount.

The crux of FFP regulations is the break-even requirement, where clubs are ordered to not spend more than the income that they generate, and that they must balance their books over the course of three years.

[calumhibee1]

I’m not doubting this figure, but I always thought that UEFA or FIFA had rules about the wage bill to turnover amount.

The crux of FFP regulations is the break-even requirement, where clubs are ordered to not spend more than the income that they generate, and that they must balance their books over the course of three years.

I’m sure someone said on here before that we don’t have FFP in Scotland. I wonder if that’s the case?

[Jim44]

I’m sure someone said on here before that we don’t have FFP in Scotland. I wonder if that’s the case?

I think we do but I think DU will be working within the rules.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29361839

[calumhibee1]

I think we do but I think DU will be working within the rules.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29361839

:aok:

[Since452]

I don't get why people are getting hung up on Shankland. He's out of our price range. Dundee United paying him a fortune. I work up in Dundee and it's well known how much he's earning. Doubt we could afford Omeonga's wages either. Did we not make Ambrose the best offer we could and he decided to use the get out clause instead?

Joe Tortolano is definitely one we could have got in however there's a rumour going about that he would only sign if he could flat share with Jimmy Boco and Rod said no.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

The Dundee UTD £3.7M loss last year maybe goes some way to explain why we didn’t push the boat out for Shankland, McNulty, Omeonga and Ambrose etc.

[The Harp Awakes]

At the start of LD's tenure the ambition was there; we managed to entice NL to the club and we were recruiting players, albeit loanees, from top premiership sides, e.g., Liverpool and Man City (twice).

Our level of ambition nose dived when NL left (perhaps that's the root cause of why he left?) and we appointed a relatively unknown and inexperienced HC with no knowledge of the the Club or the Scottish game. The Board clearly did not do their due diligence on him before the appointment. During Heck's tenure our recruitment has focused on the English lower leagues with disastrous consequences in terms of the quality of player brought in.

Our level of ambition has nose dived at a time when it should have risen; following promotion, the SC win, consolidating our position in the top 4/5 of the SPL, record home gates, feel good factor etc.

Unless there is a major injection of cash from our new owner to get us out of this mess, we will be in for several seasons of scraping draws against clubs with a fraction of our budget. Something has gone badly wrong with leadership at the Club over the past year to 18 months and the inability to put it right/act is generating a huge disconnect between the Club and the fans.

[ScottB]

What do you mean by ‘ambition’ exactly?

The quality of the players we signed is in question, but we undoubtedly used our resources to sign them. I see no evidence we have some unused cash pile sitting around that could have been spent, so, in this case, ambition means let’s run up a big loss on the playing budget?

It’s not ambitious to spend money you don’t have.

[Smartie]

I don’t have much of a problem with the standard of player signed. It’s how the budget only managed to stretch to getting a squad with such serious deficiencies in it that I have a problem with. There are various reasons why that might be.

[WeeRussell]

Board showed ambition, backed the manager and spent money.

That's my understanding too :agree: I just think they got the wrong guy.

[Barman Stanton]

What do you mean by ‘ambition’ exactly?

The quality of the players we signed is in question, but we undoubtedly used our resources to sign them. I see no evidence we have some unused cash pile sitting around that could have been spent, so, in this case, ambition means let’s run up a big loss on the playing budget?

It’s not ambitious to spend money you don’t have.

Didnt Gordon reportedly put around £1M into the club? If so then we do indeed have unused cash sitting around. They just dont want to spend it on the actual team.

[The 90+2]

The Dundee UTD £3.7M loss last year maybe goes some way to explain why we didn’t push the boat out for Shankland, McNulty, Omeonga and Ambrose etc.

Or they budgeted on promotion last season and it failed to materialise? They have still shown more ambition to get promoted again with their signings.

[worcesterhibby]

Or they budgeted on promotion last season and it failed to materialise? They have still shown more ambition to get promoted again with their signings.

I guess it depends whether you consider racking up debt to be ambition or stupidity.

[The 90+2]

I guess it depends whether you consider racking up debt to be ambition or stupidity.

We have hardly been making money ourselves in recent time.

[hfc rd]

Board showed ambition, backed the manager and spent money.

Agree.

100% they backed the manager in the summer but the problem now is that he’s wasted all that money on utter dross. That’s Heckingbottom’s fault and the blame firmly lies at his doorstep.

[tonyrougier123]

Board showed ambition, backed the manager and spent money.

So had he not been backed what type of player would we have brought in? Genuine question.
Looks like the barrel was well and truly scraped summer window,no quality in there whatsoever or ambition,scotty aside who was signed in january pre contract.

Scary thought that was a window the manager was backed in.

Some people are easily convinced what consists of a club the size of ours backing a manager.

Auckinleck talbot got any decent defensive midfielders?

[Andy74]

So had he not been backed what type of player would we have brought in? Genuine question.
Looks like the barrel was well and truly scraped summer window,no quality in there whatsoever or ambition,scotty aside who was signed in january pre contract.

Scary thought that was a window the manager was backed in.

Some people are easily convinced what consists of a club the size of ours backing a manager.

Auckinleck talbot got any decent defensive midfielders?

It’s not too tricky. Being backed is getting a budget to the limit of what we can afford.

We’ve done that. What the manager has ultimately spent it on is up to him.

[tonyrougier123]

It’s not too tricky. Being backed is getting a budget to the limit of what we can afford.

We’ve done that. What the manager has ultimately spent it on is up to him.
What did we actually spend though?,we already sourced from the bargain section of the transfer market.
We also had a fair few squad places vacant,not like we inflated an already bulging squad.

[hfc rd]

What did we actually spend though?,we already sourced from the bargain section of the transfer market.
We also had a fair few squad places vacant,not like we inflated an already bulging squad.


We did our business very early which showed that the board backed Heckingbottom and were willing to get the players in that he wanted early doors so they could have a pre-season together and build something towards the new season. We spent £200K-£300K on Doidge and had a £120K offer for Ojo accepted by S***thorpe only for him to turn us down for the sheep which looks like we dodged a bullet there too.

Just because these signings haven’t worked out, cannot be the boards fault. The blame lies firmly at Heckingbottom’s doorstep. These are the players that he wanted and it’s shown that they are not good enough.

[Smartie]

It might be that we've seen so little end product in a positive sense from many of our highest earners in the league.

Injury has deprived us of some - Gray and McGregor must be on a few quid each and have played very little football, I'd imagine Boyle's last contract would have seen him up there with our highest earners and we've got 10 minutes out of him in the league (a good 10 minutes mind).

Marciano and Kamberi have been on the bench a lot, they must be 2 of our highest earners. Not many saves or goals from them. Newell won't have come here for buttons, he's not started many games, not created much, not scored any in the league. Jackson hasn't really played much, I'd expect him to be on a decent wage.

In spite of playing every minute have we really seen enough in a positive sense from Stevie Mallan? I'd imagine we've spent a fair bit in wages to get him back from Barnsley, he was last season's marquee signing. The same could be said for Vela - it'll have taken a few quid to get him up here, he's been on the park a lot but what impact has he really made?

And that's before we get on to everybody's favourite goal machine.


That's a lot of season ticket ££££ for very little return.


If you go back a few years and compare the early "return on investment" on the following - what did we get from Martin Boyle for a swap deal with Alex Harris? What did we get from Jason Cummings having signed him from Hutchie Vale and paid him (presumably peanuts) for a year before breaking into the first team? Darren McGregor on his free from Sevco, straight into the team as an outstanding regular. Malonga, signed on a free and a mercurial talent from day one. Scott Allan, a few weeks to get up to speed and a free transfer who was playing out his skin. Marvin Bartley, signed for nowt and dominating the midfield in derbies like we've rarely seen. And then the compensation found for a SJM, a player who is now an established international, a premiership player who is being talked about being transferred for insane figures.

[superfurryhibby]

It might be that we've seen so little end product in a positive sense from many of our highest earners in the league.

Injury has deprived us of some - Gray and McGregor must be on a few quid each and have played very little football, I'd imagine Boyle's last contract would have seen him up there with our highest earners and we've got 10 minutes out of him in the league (a good 10 minutes mind).

Marciano and Kamberi have been on the bench a lot, they must be 2 of our highest earners. Not many saves or goals from them. Newell won't have come here for buttons, he's not started many games, not created much, not scored any in the league. Jackson hasn't really played much, I'd expect him to be on a decent wage.

In spite of playing every minute have we really seen enough in a positive sense from Stevie Mallan? I'd imagine we've spent a fair bit in wages to get him back from Barnsley, he was last season's marquee signing. The same could be said for Vela - it'll have taken a few quid to get him up here, he's been on the park a lot but what impact has he really made?

And that's before we get on to everybody's favourite goal machine.


That's a lot of season ticket ££££ for very little return.


If you go back a few years and compare the early "return on investment" on the following - what did we get from Martin Boyle for a swap deal with Alex Harris? What did we get from Jason Cummings having signed him from Hutchie Vale and paid him (presumably peanuts) for a year before breaking into the first team? Darren McGregor on his free from Sevco, straight into the team as an outstanding regular. Malonga, signed on a free and a mercurial talent from day one. Scott Allan, a few weeks to get up to speed and a free transfer who was playing out his skin. Marvin Bartley, signed for nowt and dominating the midfield in derbies like we've rarely seen. And then the compensation found for a SJM, a player who is now an established international, a premiership player who is being talked about being transferred for insane figures.

Agreeing with all of this. It’s not just about the level of investment, it’s the quality of player brought. All managers have their flops, it’s inevitable, but the ratio of flops to successful signings has changed drastically.

[Andy74]

Agreeing with all of this. It’s not just about the level of investment, it’s the quality of player brought. All managers have their flops, it’s inevitable, but the ratio of flops to successful signings has changed drastically.

We’re judging people early in their career though just now against players when they moved on from us.

A number of our really successful recent signings didn’t necessarily look that way in their first ten games.

[ScottB]

Didnt Gordon reportedly put around £1M into the club? If so then we do indeed have unused cash sitting around. They just dont want to spend it on the actual team.

He cleared the debt, and that’s about it, no?

But ok, say there is a million sitting there, that works out to £19k a week, if all of it was just used on wages, so less the tax the club would owe, maybe £12 - £14k for the wage budget, not that even free players are free, with signing on fees, agent fees and the like. The mentioned McNulty and Omeonga were not going on frees though.

A million quid probably adds 1 or 2 decent players to the squad, for a year. Supposedly Dempster stated that those 2 would have cost the club 5 million to fund their deals.

We have the amount of money we have, to fund the squad, upkeep the stadium, run the youth teams etc. It’s not ambitious to spend money that isn’t there, or to, say, stop looking after the stadium to spend that money elsewhere (cough Rangers cough).

What would be ambitious then? Sacking an underperforming manager who seems to have wasted the money he did have, sooner rather than later? Maybe. Ambition is one of these things that sounds good but doesn’t really mean anything, particularly in this context, it’s really just people demanding the club spend more, but that’s no guarantee of anything. How much do Killie spend a year? Way less than we do, I’d imagine. Are they less ambitious?

[The Leith Dutch]

Board showed ambition, backed the manager and spent money.

100%
People need to distinguish between spending money badly and not being given money.

The board are not beyond criticism but we've got threads on here accusing them of both penny pinching and spending silly money on Doidge for example.

[Gloucester Hibs]

Folk explaining that Hecky was backed financially by the board, as if that somehow absolves them of all blame - who appointed the useless prick?

[The Leith Dutch]

Absolutely no excuse to have not went for Shankland, was the most obvious signing of the summer.

Not even sure it’s a question of boardroom ambition as the manager was heavily backed, and let’s be honest he wasted all the funds.

I do however think that the delay in the sacking of the manager shows a lack of ambition/bottle though. Quite incredible he lingers on.

Not saying we shouldn't have gone for him but easy to say it's obvious when he's scoring for another club at a different level.
Would he have done it in the SPL? Would he have done it in a Hibs jersey?
Seen us sign plenty players with the kind of rep Shankland has in the lower leagues and they've been a damp squib for us.

Put it in a reverse way - if you look at how Scott Allan has played for us you wouldn't have been disappointed if he'd cost us a million.
Yet at other clubs he's been uninspiring.

We might well have been paying top dollar wages for Shankland while not giving him the service from what I'd still argue is our biggest problem - an unbalanced and ineffective midfield.

[The Leith Dutch]

Folk explaining that Hecky was backed financially by the board, as if that somehow absolves them of all blame - who appointed the useless prick?

No. Folk are explaining that the board financially backing the manager absolves them of blame for not financially backing the manager. There's a ton of threads on the fact that PH needs to go and pointing out the board need to get the replacement right.

[MWHIBBIES]

So had he not been backed what type of player would we have brought in? Genuine question.
Looks like the barrel was well and truly scraped summer window,no quality in there whatsoever or ambition,scotty aside who was signed in january pre contract.

Scary thought that was a window the manager was backed in.

Some people are easily convinced what consists of a club the size of ours backing a manager.

Auckinleck talbot got any decent defensive midfielders?

Might be a genuine question but it's still a daft one. Good money doesn't guarantee good players. He was definitely backed in the summer.

[WeeRussell]

No. Folk are explaining that the board financially backing the manager absolves them of blame for not financially backing the manager. There's a ton of threads on the fact that PH needs to go and pointing out the board need to get the replacement right.

Beat me tae it..

[tonyrougier123]

Might be a genuine question but it's still a daft one. Good money doesn't guarantee good players. He was definitely backed in the summer.

Daft how?
Did you answer the question or just rabble of nonsense.
Where is your proof we spent good money genius?😂
We would have brought guys in like we did regardless.hibs do it all the time and folk like you fall for it.
Penny pinching in the bargain market after selling off good players that MADE the club money.
And going through the motions ,and spending that cash on ripped up manager contracts, before struggling at the foot of the table.
Repeat!repeat!repeat!

[Gloucester Hibs]

No. Folk are explaining that the board financially backing the manager absolves them of blame for not financially backing the manager. There's a ton of threads on the fact that PH needs to go and pointing out the board need to get the replacement right.

I get that, just thought this thread was becoming a bit of a board love-in and it needed some perspective 😈

[HibeeHibernian4]

"Ambition" is the sort of code word that gets used to move clubs ten miles away from their spiritual home. No thanks.

[The 90+2]

Might be a genuine question but it's still a daft one. Good money doesn't guarantee good players. He was definitely backed in the summer.

He missed on his main target of the season though. Doidge costing money is used to bash the club apparently but now he was backed?

[MWHIBBIES]

He missed on his main target of the season though. Doidge costing money is used to bash the club apparently but now he was backed?
I've always said he was backed.

Daft how?
Did you answer the question or just rabble of nonsense.
Where is your proof we spent good money genius?😂
We would have brought guys in like we did regardless.hibs do it all the time and folk like you fall for it.
Penny pinching in the bargain market after selling off good players that MADE the club money.
And going through the motions ,and spending that cash on ripped up manager contracts, before struggling at the foot of the table.
Repeat!repeat!repeat!
Oh yeah, I've definitely fallen for the big ruse. We signed all these guys for free and the board took huge pay cheques.

Hibs do it all the time? You do realise Hibs are under new ownership? Even since Dempster joined we haven't penny pinched at all. Signed guys like Stokes and Ambrose in the championship FFS.

[tonyrougier123]

I've always said he was backed.

Oh yeah, I've definitely fallen for the big ruse. We signed all these guys for free and the board took huge pay cheques.

Hibs do it all the time? You do realise Hibs are under new ownership? Even since Dempster joined we haven't penny pinched at all. Signed guys like Stokes and Ambrose in the championship FFS.
It usually takes a relegation before we start speculating to accumulate.

The doidge fee is a cop out for folk like you,leading you to believe we are investing in the squad substantially.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think he's been backed, money to spend on players, 9 players signed i think?

It's the quality of those signings in my opinion that is up for question, not the amount of money we spent.