Fraser Murray

[HibeeHibernian4]

Don’t want to be too harsh on a youngster, but what on earth was that performance today?

Failed to play a proper pass to Kamberi on the counter.
Looked dreadfully unfit and ran like he was towing a car.
Headed the ball to the County player for their equaliser.

Hopefully it’s just a rare blip, but he cost us that game today with his shambolic performance.

[Hibs90]

He is nowhere near good enough

[Heisenberg]

He is nowhere near good enough

I agree. Won’t make it at Hibs.

[ancient hibee]

Pulled out of the header I'm afraid.Second time that has cost us a goal.

[The Modfather]

I didn’t see his performances today, but a struggling team with no confidence and vastly lacking quality isn’t really a great platform to bring a youngster in from the cold. That said, Murray has shown some potential, but the longer he is out the team the better he seems to get. At the moment he’s in the same bracket as Harris, Stanton & Handling. Shown some potential but yet to actually show he will make it at Hibs. Miles behind Porteous and Shaw despite being a similar age.

[tonyrougier123]

The youngsters are not being prepared for the first team, time for change in that department as well imo.

As nice as all the coaches are its not good enough at hibs end of!!

[tamig]

He was shocking. Yet folk are lambasting Newall and Vela on another thread. Our academy guys get too easy a ride from many on here and folk have been crying out for Murray to be given a chance. On today’s evidence I can see why he’s been nowhere near the team lately. Cost us two points ultimately.

[Hiber-nation]

To say Fraser Murray cost us 2 points is utterly ridiculous. His mistake resulted in a goal - the likes of Vela made mistakes galore but got away with them.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

I am all for blooding youngsters but currently our senior players can't find the character and mindset to get themselves through the games never mind take the time to help the inexperienced ones through.

[easty]

To say Fraser Murray cost us 2 points is utterly ridiculous. His mistake resulted in a goal - the likes of Vela made mistakes galore but got away with them.

So...Murray cost us 2 points then

[tamig]

To say Fraser Murray cost us 2 points is utterly ridiculous. His mistake resulted in a goal - the likes of Vela made mistakes galore but got away with them.

So ultimately he cost us two points.

[BlackSheep]

Sometimes I wonder how easily people forget Fraser’s better performances.... he is a better player than both Vela and Newell and also has a bit of heart.

The difficulty with our youngsters is they don’t get a fair crack at the whip.

Hecky has persisted with Doidge for 4/5 games and only today is he dropped... maybe down to injury but still out of the squad.

If he gave the boys like Shaw and Murray that kind of consistent chance then they would both show their worth.

But instead they get cameos and have very little time to impress and this only increases the pressure on them, leading to mistakes and poor performances.

[Hiber-nation]

So ultimately he cost us two points.

Did you watch Newell today? Do you think that 2 good crosses and hiding the rest of the game makes it a good performance?

I doubt whether Murray will ultimately be good enough but to defend the likes of Newell and Vela is astonishing.

[tamig]

Sometimes I wonder how easily people forget Fraser’s better performances.... he is a better player than both Vela and Newell and also has a bit of heart.

The difficulty with our youngsters is they don’t get a fair crack at the whip.

Hecky has persisted with Doidge for 4/5 games and only today is he dropped... maybe down to injury but still out of the squad.

If he gave the boys like Shaw and Murray that kind of consistent chance then they would both show their worth.

But instead they get cameos and have very little time to impress and this only increases the pressure on them, leading to mistakes and poor performances.

Showed zero heart when he decided not to get his head to that ball today.

[easty]

Did you watch Newell today? Do you think that 2 good crosses and hiding the rest of the game makes it a good performance?

I doubt whether Murray will ultimately be good enough but to defend the likes of Newell and Vela is astonishing.

Who’s defending them?

[Speedway]

Fraser Murray bombed Pearl Harbor.

[Tully]

Murray bottled the header, but then again all hibs players bottled it again at 2 0

[Hiber-nation]

Who’s defending them?

Tamig on the other thread....

[telford hibbee]

Pulled out of the header I'm afraid.Second time that has cost us a goal.
I thought he misjudged the bounce of the ball. Schoolboy error granted but there have been worse mistakes from senior pros this season

[bringbackbenny]

Fraser Murray has double the heart of the the 2 shanest imposters ever to wear the jersey, Vela and Newall.

[Broken Gnome]

He didn't duck out of it, did he? Thought he just fluffed it. Not sure the rest of the time he was on much warranted the 'shocker' reviews he seems to be getting.

If he had got much on it, he had ten Hibs players basically still in our box so it was going nowhere but a Ross County player about 30 yards out.

[Sioux]

Sometimes I wonder how easily people forget Fraser’s better performances.... he is a better player than both Vela and Newell and also has a bit of heart.

The difficulty with our youngsters is they don’t get a fair crack at the whip.

Hecky has persisted with Doidge for 4/5 games and only today is he dropped... maybe down to injury but still out of the squad.

If he gave the boys like Shaw and Murray that kind of consistent chance then they would both show their worth.

But instead they get cameos and have very little time to impress and this only increases the pressure on them, leading to mistakes and poor performances.

If he was injured he wasn't dropped ffs. Even if he was dropped, he'd have been shaking his head at his replacement.

On the back of his performance today, should Murray get a game on Wednesday? Naw. Of course that criticism could be levelled at a few more. Murray's nowhere near the player the Hibs.net paparazzi would have us believe over the last few weeks.

[DetroitHibs]

I thought he misjudged the bounce of the ball. Schoolboy error granted but there have been worse mistakes from senior pros this season

Thought the same, there wasn’t another player even close to him. Just misjudged it.

[tamig]

Did you watch Newell today? Do you think that 2 good crosses and hiding the rest of the game makes it a good performance?

I doubt whether Murray will ultimately be good enough but to defend the likes of Newell and Vela is astonishing.
Newell put in more than two crosses today - and most were quality crosses.
I’ll have a go at players if I think it’s merited and I don’t think either Vela or Newell deserve the kicking they’re taking on here tonight. If we’d held on for the win today I can bet there would be no thread dedicated to them. They are easy targets on here. I like Fraser Murray but he’s now cost us twice this season by bottling out of aerial challenges.

[JimBHibees]

Don’t want to be too harsh on a youngster, but what on earth was that performance today?

Failed to play a proper pass to Kamberi on the counter.
Looked dreadfully unfit and ran like he was towing a car.
Headed the ball to the County player for their equaliser.

Hopefully it’s just a rare blip, but he cost us that game today with his shambolic performance.

Wtf shocking analysis. Give the boy a break.

[B.H.F.C]

I am all for blooding youngsters but currently our senior players can't find the character and mindset to get themselves through the games never mind take the time to help the inexperienced ones through.

Our most senior players, Hanlon and Stevenson, are an absolute disgrace at the moment.

[Real Emerald]

Newell put in more than two crosses today - and most were quality crosses.
I’ll have a go at players if I think it’s merited and I don’t think either Vela or Newell deserve the kicking they’re taking on here tonight. If we’d held on for the win today I can bet there would be no thread dedicated to them. They are easy targets on here. I like Fraser Murray but he’s now cost us twice this season by bottling out of aerial challenges.

If we’d won 4 nil today Newell’s performance would still be pish. He hides, can’t tackle, plays the ball straight back from where it comes from and occasionally finds space to whip in a decent cross. Any player in any level of football could have seamlessly swapped with him and done better. He is not what I want to see at Easter Road, if you’re happy with that you should maybe join the board, no ambition no heart and no passion.

[DaveF]

Murray is the least of our worries. This is a piss poor thread.

[Golden Bear]

I've not seen enough of the lad to fairly judge him but from what I have seen I can conclude that he lacks pace and is certainly not suited to play in a wide left position. And oh, he needs an injection of self confidence.

[DaveF]

And oh, he needs an injection of self confidence.

Which he won't get in this team when every single senior pro is abdicating responsibility.

[Nicho87]

And some people have been calling for him to start for weeks. Sorry but an element is not his fault but he’s not the player you bring on defending a 2-1 lead. Disastrous cameo

[Jones28]

To say Fraser Murray cost us 2 points is utterly ridiculous. His mistake resulted in a goal - the likes of Vela made mistakes galore but got away with them.

So he ****ed it Is what you’re saying. How many mistakes did Vela cost us?

[GoalsMcGinley]

Murray has a bad 10 minutes and he gets lambasted. Horgan has a bad 10 months and everyone backs him to the hilt. Hibs fans are a special breed man!


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[percy veer]

So he ****ed it Is what you’re saying. How many mistakes did Vela cost us?


Was it Vela that never closed down Graham for the first goal

[Jones28]

Was it Vela that never closed down Graham for the first goal

Dunno, wisney there.

[J-C]

Murray has a bad 10 minutes and he gets lambasted. Horgan has a bad 10 months and everyone backs him to the hilt. Hibs fans are a special breed man!


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You couldn't make it up eh?

We have a host of so called senior pro's playing like beginners and this young lad starting his career is thrown in to play left wing when he's a central midfielder and he gets called out for one bloody mistake, the fans of this club are a disgrace at times.

If you all want to vent your anger then aim it at the head coach, the two ghost like players of Vela and Newell, the ego that is Kamberi, the enigma that is Horgan or one of the worst right backs I've ever seen in Naismith.

[Hiber-nation]

So he ****ed it Is what you’re saying. How many mistakes did Vela cost us?

No idea what the asterisks hide. But it's more than likely not what I said.

No point in responding further as I see you said you weren't actually there.

[Jonnyboy]

You couldn't make it up eh?

We have a host of so called senior pro's playing like beginners and this young lad starting his career is thrown in to play left wing when he's a central midfielder and he gets called out for one bloody mistake, the fans of this club are a disgrace at times.

If you all want to vent your anger then aim it at the head coach, the two ghost like players of Vela and Newell, the ego that is Kamberi, the enigma that is Horgan or one of the worst right backs I've ever seen in Naismith.

This, in spades ✅

[Hiber-nation]

You couldn't make it up eh?

We have a host of so called senior pro's playing like beginners and this young lad starting his career is thrown in to play left wing when he's a central midfielder and he gets called out for one bloody mistake, the fans of this club are a disgrace at times.

If you all want to vent your anger then aim it at the head coach, the two ghost like players of Vela and Newell, the ego that is Kamberi, the enigma that is Horgan or one of the worst right backs I've ever seen in Naismith.

Agree with all that apart from Naismith. He was OK today, certainly miles better than James last week.

[J-C]

Agree with all that apart from Naismith. He was OK today, certainly miles better than James last week.


Dear god if he was better than James, how bad is James because Naismith was brutally slow and lost his man almost all game, he was shocking.

[Jones28]

No idea what the asterisks hide. But it's more than likely not what I said.

No point in responding further as I see you said you weren't actually there.

No, it doesn’t take a genius to figure it out. I was merely pointing out how daft your point was that Vela’s mistakes didn’t lead to goals but Murray’s did and has seen 3 points go to 1.

Our young players are talented, but they aren’t Teflon.

[HibeeHibernian4]

You couldn't make it up eh?

We have a host of so called senior pro's playing like beginners and this young lad starting his career is thrown in to play left wing when he's a central midfielder and he gets called out for one bloody mistake, the fans of this club are a disgrace at times.

Yeah, it wasn’t just one mistake though, was it? If you read my post properly you’d be aware of that.

He looked about two stone overweight whenever he ran today, I don’t know who that’s down to, but there’s the facts. He was slow as anything moving up and down the park and it bordered on painful to watch.

[J-C]

Yeah, it wasn’t just one mistake though, was it? If you read my post properly you’d be aware of that.

He looked about two stone overweight whenever he ran today, I don’t know who that’s down to, but there’s the facts. He was slow as anything moving up and down the park and it bordered on painful to watch.


Must've been a different Murray I seen taking the ball when he 1st came on and sprinting past the right back but on you go having a go at one of our young inexperienced players thrown into the deep end by Heckinbottom, we have a lot more serious problems than a young lad making an odd mistake today.

[Hiber-nation]

No, it doesn’t take a genius to figure it out. I was merely pointing out how daft your point was that Vela’s mistakes didn’t lead to goals but Murray’s did and has seen 3 points go to 1.

Our young players are talented, but they aren’t Teflon.

Nah it wasn't daft at all. Hanlon was bullied out of his first challenge in the match by wee Billy McKay. Didn't cost us a goal luckily but it was awful. Vela misplaced several passes but luckily they didn't result in a goal. Mistakes worse than Murray's. I could go on and on.

[DaveF]

Yeah, it wasn’t just one mistake though, was it? If you read my post properly you’d be aware of that.

He looked about two stone overweight whenever he ran today, I don’t know who that’s down to, but there’s the facts. He was slow as anything moving up and down the park and it bordered on painful to watch.

What a load of rubbish. You will be that fan who was slagging for being too light last season.

He came on with 10 mins to go into a team which was rudderless and on the back foot. Sure he fluffed a header but so what. The waste is space he replaced should be the target of your ire.

[Hiber-nation]

Yeah, it wasn’t just one mistake though, was it? If you read my post properly you’d be aware of that.

He looked about two stone overweight whenever he ran today, I don’t know who that’s down to, but there’s the facts. He was slow as anything moving up and down the park and it bordered on painful to watch.

Utterly bizarre post. No idea what game you were at.

[tamig]

Must've been a different Murray I seen taking the ball when he 1st came on and sprinting past the right back but on you go having a go at one of our young inexperienced players thrown into the deep end by Heckinbottom, we have a lot more serious problems than a young lad making an odd mistake today.

Fraser didn’t sprint at all today - let alone past an opponent. He did look like he was towing a caravan as another poster put it. I like him but he was very poor when he came on.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Must've been a different Murray I seen taking the ball when he 1st came on and sprinting past the right back but on you go having a go at one of our young inexperienced players thrown into the deep end by Heckinbottom, we have a lot more serious problems than a young lad making an odd mistake today.

Could you roughly tell me what minute this was in, I’ve got a HibsTV account and if I’ve got it wrong then, fair play, I’ll watch it back and hold my hands up. Don’t think I have though, he looked seriously short of pace today.

[makaveli1875]

Fraser Murray isn't the problem. We've been finding new ways to throw away the 3 points for weeks now

[matty_f]

Fraser didn’t sprint at all today - let alone past an opponent. He did look like he was towing a caravan as another poster put it. I like him but he was very poor when he came on.

I'm with you, I like Murray but he wasn't good today. Had the opportunity to take us forward or keep us forward a couple of times and didn't.


Not to blame for the draw by a long way, but I doubt he'll be happy with his contribution today.

[ABZHFC]

To say Fraser Murray cost us 2 points is utterly ridiculous. His mistake resulted in a goal - the likes of Vela made mistakes galore but got away with them.

Vela set up the second with a great tackle high up the pitch, something we’ve been crying out for all season

[J-C]

Could you roughly tell me what minute this was in, I’ve got a HibsTV account and if I’ve got it wrong then, fair play, I’ll watch it back and hold my hands up. Don’t think I have though, he looked seriously short of pace today.

Almost as soon as he came on, my 1st thought was at least he was positive and moved the ball quickly forward, I didn't catch the mistake as I was out the stadium going back to my cab to miss the crowd. There are more people to have a go at than a young lad starting out, he's a centre mid out on the left wing, we had Middleton sitting on the bench ffs?

[Jones28]

Nah it wasn't daft at all. Hanlon was bullied out of his first challenge in the match by wee Billy McKay. Didn't cost us a goal luckily but it was awful. Vela misplaced several passes but luckily they didn't result in a goal. Mistakes worse than Murray's. I could go on and on.

Mistakes worse than the one Murray made that costs us a goal? Oh do tell us more.

[Stokesy's on fire]

Remember when Terry Butcher did our young players some damage..same applies now Hecky is the problem and until he leaves regression is all that we will see. Stubbs in

[tamig]

Almost as soon as he came on, my 1st thought was at least he was positive and moved the ball quickly forward, I didn't catch the mistake as I was out the stadium going back to my cab to miss the crowd. There are more people to have a go at than a young lad starting out, he's a centre mid out on the left wing, we had Middleton sitting on the bench ffs?

He’s not immune from criticism when he screws things up. He cost us today.

[ABZHFC]

Almost as soon as he came on, my 1st thought was at least he was positive and moved the ball quickly forward, I didn't catch the mistake as I was out the stadium going back to my cab to miss the crowd. There are more people to have a go at than a young lad starting out, he's a centre mid out on the left wing, we had Middleton sitting on the bench ffs?

It wasn’t just the mistake, he played like he was wading through mud, looked hopelessly out of his depth

[bigwheel]

It wasn’t just the mistake, he played like he was wading through mud, looked hopelessly out of his depth

Was the same last week...looks like he is trying too hard ...and lacks composure

[Bobby's Cinema]

Sorry, haven’t read the comments on the thread but again I look at the manager here.

Makes a relatively attacking sub for us to use as an outball presumably and then instructs him to retain the ball and not run at defender and stretch.
- see the Newell sub at Aberdeen and previous examples, Ibrox for instance

The manager doesn’t know how to keep us playing once we have a lead. His performance as sub fits into that wider issue for me.

[tamig]

Sorry, haven’t read the comments on the thread but again I look at the manager here.

Makes a relatively attacking sub for us to use as an outball presumably and then instructs him to retain the ball and not run at defender and stretch.
- see the Newell sub at Aberdeen and previous examples, Ibrox for instance

The manager doesn’t know how to keep us playing once we have a lead. His performance as sub fits into that wider issue for me.
How do you know what he was instructed to do? Or are you actual Fraser Murray?

[Hiber-nation]

Mistakes worse than the one Murray made that costs us a goal? Oh do tell us more.

Hiding. Far worse than an honest mistake.

[DaveF]

He’s not immune from criticism when he screws things up. He cost us today.

Of course he isn't immune from criticism but the level of it for fluffing a header is unreal compared to the vast majority of senior players who collectively crapped it when put under pressure.

[Scouse Hibee]

Murray bottled the header, but then again all hibs players bottled it again at 2 0

He never bottled it just made an arse of it

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

How do you know what he was instructed to do? Or are you actual Fraser Murray?

I agree with Fraz, from the moment he came on the park he was very negative with the ball which is not like the laddies normal game at all. The conclusion is that he must have been instructed to play that way.

[tamig]

Of course he isn't immune from criticism but the level of it for fluffing a header is unreal compared to the vast majority of senior players who collectively crapped it when put under pressure.

He did similar against St Johnstone so not an isolated incident.

[Pilrig_Sauzee]

The team blew it, not Murray, but he didn’t have a good game and there a couple of moments when i thought he’d maybe tweaked a hamstring or something because he seemed to lack the confidence to make a burst of speed. He looked out of position, or unsure of his role, which i think is more the manager’s fault. Another of our younger players whose confidence has tanked under PH.

[DaveF]

He did similar against St Johnstone so not an isolated incident.

I wasn't there so can't comment but don't recall the outrage against at such a level as it is now?

[Crab apple]

He made a mistake today but he’ll learn from it. He's not the reason we’re second bottom and without a league win since 4th August. That’s down to the clown in charge.

[jacomo]

He was shocking. Yet folk are lambasting Newall and Vela on another thread. Our academy guys get too easy a ride from many on here and folk have been crying out for Murray to be given a chance. On today’s evidence I can see why he’s been nowhere near the team lately. Cost us two points ultimately.


Nonsense.

If he was poor today then he’s fluffed a chance to impress but he looked promising when he first broke into the team.

[SickBoy32]

Fraser didn’t sprint at all today - let alone past an opponent. He did look like he was towing a caravan as another poster put it. I like him but he was very poor when he came on.

Desperate to defend the expensive donkeys from England, and happy to lay the boot into a young laddie coming through ?

Bizarre in the extreme. Fraser Murray is far better than Newell and vela. Have a word

[J-C]

He did similar against St Johnstone so not an isolated incident.


Then maybe it's a manager's decision, the same manager who is very negative in every game. I said today at the game that I felt Stevenson has been particularly negative since Heckinbottom has came in. Under Stubbs and Lennon, Lewis used to bomb up and down that left side and his only real criticism was the final ball wasn't always great, he barely gets past the halfway line nowadays.

[Radium]

Should have started ahead of Vela.

Should have been brought on for Newell with half an hour to go.

He was brought on with 10 minutes to go when most senior players bottles had dropped and is to blame.

Management have shown no appetite to develop him because they are wedded to their summer signings.

Potential as part of an attacking midfield but management don’t seem interested.




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[Jones28]

Hiding. Far worse than an honest mistake.

They hid while scoring two goals.

[tamig]

Then maybe it's a manager's decision, the same manager who is very negative in every game. I said today at the game that I felt Stevenson has been particularly negative since Heckinbottom has came in. Under Stubbs and Lennon, Lewis used to bomb up and down that left side and his only real criticism was the final ball wasn't always great, he barely gets past the halfway line nowadays.

I don’t think Lewis has been fit this season having effectively missed pre-season.

[DaveF]

They hid while scoring two goals.

And their collective arse crapped it when put under pressure. I'm sure you will agree.

Even though you were not present.

[tamig]

Desperate to defend the expensive donkeys from England, and happy to lay the boot into a young laddie coming through ?

Bizarre in the extreme. Fraser Murray is far better than Newell and vela. Have a word
Fraser Murray’s mistake today cost us two points. Vela won the ball to set up our second goal. Bizarre? Aye right then.

[DaveF]

Fraser Murray’s mistake today cost us two points. Vela won the ball to set up our second goal. Bizarre? Aye right then.

Oh come on, I thought you were better than that.

Are you really slating a young kid who had 10mins and misjudged a header for 2 points over seasoned pros who shat it and failed to see out a game. Again.

[Jones28]

And their collective arse crapped it when put under pressure. I'm sure you will agree.

Even though you were not present.

Right, well as Dave seems to think opinions of those who weren’t able to make the game are irrelevant I’ll take my leave.

FWIW, yes I do agree. But I’m sure it’s irrelevant.

[tamig]

Oh come on, I thought you were better than that.

Are you really slating a young kid who had 10mins and misjudged a header for 2 points over seasoned pros who shat it and failed to see out a game. Again.

I’m not slating him Dave. I genuinely believe his mistake cost us the game. I’ve been castigated on another thread for defending Vela and Newell today - I really don’t believe they deserve the stick they’ve had on here tonight. I like Fraser Murray a lot. I just think he looked very poor today.

[Cool_Hand_Luke]

I’m not slating him Dave. I genuinely believe his mistake cost us the game. I’ve been castigated on another thread for defending Vela and Newell today - I really don’t believe they deserve the stick they’ve had on here tonight. I like Fraser Murray a lot. I just think he looked very poor today.

Whilst I don’t think anyone here can deny Murray made an error for the second goal - imho just a misjudgement of the ball which still had plenty to play before the ball hitting the net...what else could Murray have done in that position? - have you actually looked at Vela’s defending for it? Again - imho - Vela is far more to blame than Murray for the goal..but I would expect a player of his supposed quality not to stop and turn his back 5 yards before the Ross County player strikes it...

[DaveF]

I’m not slating him Dave. I genuinely believe his mistake cost us the game. I’ve been castigated on another thread for defending Vela and Newell today - I really don’t believe they deserve the stick they’ve had on here tonight. I like Fraser Murray a lot. I just think he looked very poor today.

I'm sure Murray isn't happy with his whole 10mins but to blame him for losing 2 points is, IMHO, utterly pathetic when the vast majority of the senior players crapped it yet again.

[ABZHFC]

I don't think anyone is blaming him purely because he made a mistake, that can happen to anyone, especially younger players. It's more concerning, really, that he looked so far off the pace, didn't even look too interested, from where I was anyway

[tamig]

I'm sure Murray isn't happy with his whole 10mins but to blame him for losing 2 points is, IMHO, utterly pathetic when the vast majority of the senior players crapped it yet again.

We’ll need to disagree on this one Dave.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

The youngsters are not being prepared for the first team, time for change in that department as well imo.

As nice as all the coaches are its not good enough at hibs end of!!

Maybe you needed to attend the HTC visit to get some perspective - unless you work there or hide in the bushes...

[stoneyburn hibs]

Done more in the first few minutes than the imposter he replaced.

[Crab apple]

Whilst I don’t think anyone here can deny Murray made an error for the second goal - imho just a misjudgement of the ball which still had plenty to play before the ball hitting the net...what else could Murray have done in that position? - have you actually looked at Vela’s defending for it? Again - imho - Vela is far more to blame than Murray for the goal..but I would expect a player of his supposed quality not to stop and turn his back 5 yards before the Ross County player strikes it...

Vela did exactly the same thing at the Derby for their second goal.

[Allant1981]

You couldn't make it up eh?

We have a host of so called senior pro's playing like beginners and this young lad starting his career is thrown in to play left wing when he's a central midfielder and he gets called out for one bloody mistake, the fans of this club are a disgrace at times.

If you all want to vent your anger then aim it at the head coach, the two ghost like players of Vela and Newell, the ego that is Kamberi, the enigma that is Horgan or one of the worst right backs I've ever seen in Naismith.

Murray plays out wide for the reserves

[J-C]

Murray plays out wide for the reserves

Yes I know that as he's very versatile but naturally a centre mid, I still think we have more serious problems than a young lad making a mistake, it happens with inexperience, far worse performances out there yesterday.

[Allant1981]

Yes I know that as he's very versatile but naturally a centre mid, I still think we have more serious problems than a young lad making a mistake, it happens with inexperience, far worse performances out there yesterday.


Yes there certainly was but theres no point in throwing things about like him being played out of position when he wasnt, if he makes mistakes then he should not be immune to criticism, folk on here have been saying for ages to get him in the team ahead of half the midfield almost but based on yesterday he is quite rightly not starting games

[J-C]

Yes there certainly was but theres no point in throwing things about like him being played out of position when he wasnt, if he makes mistakes then he should not be immune to criticism, folk on here have been saying for ages to get him in the team ahead of half the midfield almost but based on yesterday he is quite rightly not starting games


Strange that he's been a stand out for the Dev team recently and his performances when called upon for the 1st team have been very positive, the pass when Doidge scored against Morton was from a deep midfield position btw. Fraser is capable of playing across the attacking midfield right to left and equally adept in the deeper central role.

No harm in giving criticism when it due but some of the ever enthusiastic criticism of a young lad starting out on his career is everything that is wrong with this board in recent times.

[The Wireless]

The laddie has never had a run of 2 or 3 games. I like what he potentially could offer the team and think the boy would give 100% if given his chance. Yesterday’s cock up was a simple mistake and he was in no way responsible for the tactical apathy during and thereafter. Give the laddie a break.

[Allant1981]

Strange that he's been a stand out for the Dev team recently and his performances when called upon for the 1st team have been very positive, the pass when Doidge scored against Morton was from a deep midfield position btw. Fraser is capable of playing across the attacking midfield right to left and equally adept in the deeper central role.

No harm in giving criticism when it due but some of the ever enthusiastic criticism of a young lad starting out on his career is everything that is wrong with this board in recent times.

There is a significant step up from dev games to first team, as shaw has also found out, he is rightly getting game time every now and again, if he was starting every week just now in this team it would not do him any good I think

[HibeeHibernian4]

People keep trying to reduce this to "he made one mistake that led to their goal", but it's not that at all. He looked like he was running through treacle the entire time he was on the park. That is what worried me about his performance.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Interesting twist this one - crucifying a homemade youngster that’s had some serious injuries in his career and is now making his way back.

Well done the supporters who have identified this wage thief.

[wookie70]

Interesting twist this one - crucifying a homemade youngster that’s had some serious injuries in his career and is now making his way back.

Well done the supporters who have identified this wage thief.

The dev players need support imo. Porteous much have cost us 3 or 4 goals, the first yesterday was terrible defending on his part. We are rightly seeing the good in his performances and recognising that experience will mean the mistakes start becoming fewer and further apart.

Murray looks a real prospect to me and is a player who has done well in his appearances in the first team. He mis-timed a header yesterday but came into the game late and never quite got up to speed. I'd drop Vela or Newell and give Fraser 3 or 4 games and let him know he will be getting game time for the next month.

[J-C]

Just watched the highlights and although Murray mis timed the header Vela bottled it and never closed down Chalmers, instead turning his back on the player, cowardly football from him.

[B.H.F.C]

Just watched the highlights and although Murray mis timed the header Vela bottled it and never closed down Chalmers, instead turning his back on the player, cowardly football from him.

Shocking from Vela. Similar to his pathetic attempt to block the winning goal in the derby.

A fair bit happens after it, but in the build up to both goals Stevenson just lets them cross the ball. Really poor from him and something he does week in, week out.

[ancient hibee]

Pulled out of the header I'm afraid.Second time that has cost us a goal.

Now that I’ve seen it on Sportscene I realise that he didn’t pull out of the header like I thought at the game,he totally misjudged it.So apologies for that but I do think heading is a weakness in his game .

[DaveF]

Now that I’ve seen it on Sportscene I realise that he didn’t pull out of the header like I thought at the game,he totally misjudged it.So apologies for that but I do think heading is a weakness in his game .

That's nit picking in the extreme as every player has a weakness to some extent.

[Diclonius]

Fraser Murray not playing: "****'s sake why is he not on the pitch, Hecky out"

Fraser Murray gets ten minutes on the pitch as a substitute after a long time out, and admittedly plays badly: "****'s sake why is he on the pitch, he's no good enough for us and never has been and I knew it all along"

Some people just like having a right good moan about anything, eh.

[Stantons Angel]

For goodness sake!

How do you think this young laddie feels reading this and having to put up with you lot tearing him apart.

How would you feel if this were your son and you had to read the soul destroying comments written here.

Like you i cannot now defend this manager and his miracle 89 mins substitutions, he is panicing too

A while ago this board had a lot of good positive comments to make about Fraser aye Football fans i know are fickle.

But this is just unbelievable, read back on it..... this isnt about the laddie its you arguing with each other!

You may see it as he lost you the game..... but how did the ball get up that end of the park? Why did it bypass all the players it did?

Its supposed to be a team game and his team mates let him down too!

[GoalsMcGinley]

Just seen the equaliser back again. Fraser misjudged the bounce. After that Josh Vela’s attempt at a block is utterly pathetic. In fact it’s bordering on downright being a sh*tebag! Following that, a firmly believe the goalkeeper is slow getting down and should save it.


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[HibeeHibernian4]

Fraser Murray not playing: "****'s sake why is he not on the pitch, Hecky out"

Fraser Murray gets ten minutes on the pitch as a substitute after a long time out, and admittedly plays badly: "****'s sake why is he on the pitch, he's no good enough for us and never has been and I knew it all along"

Some people just like having a right good moan about anything, eh.

What if I were to tell you that the people who said the first thing might not have been the same people who said the second thing?

[MrRobot]

I don’t think Lewis has been fit this season having effectively missed pre-season.

Then he shouldn't be playing. I love Stevenson but he has been poor this season.

[IanFaeClerrie]

Don’t want to be too harsh on a youngster, but what on earth was that performance today?

Failed to play a proper pass to Kamberi on the counter.
Headed the ball to the County player for their equaliser.

He's not played enough. Earlier in the season he made a solid effect each time he came on.

The header was poor but Vela and Mallon should have closed down.

[IanFaeClerrie]

Then maybe it's a manager's decision, the same manager who is very negative in every game. I said today at the game that I felt Stevenson has been particularly negative since Heckinbottom has came in. Under Stubbs and Lennon, Lewis used to bomb up and down that left side and his only real criticism was the final ball wasn't always great, he barely gets past the halfway line nowadays.

I assume you are aware that our tactics are completely different now and that it's not Lewis' decision not to go forward.

[J-C]

I assume you are aware that our tactics are completely different now and that it's not Lewis' decision not to go forward.

Read my post again and I mentioned negativity since Heckingbottom came in, basically the same as what you've just posted?

[Anthony Soprano]

Seen plenty of folk on here saying he should be starting 11 but i've seen nothing from his so far to justify that bar one or two nice passes, IMO none of the youth players bar Porto are good enough to be in the first team

[GoalsMcGinley]

Seen plenty of folk on here saying he should be starting 11 but i've seen nothing from his so far to justify that bar one or two nice passes, IMO none of the youth players bar Porto are good enough to be in the first team

At this moment in time neither is Porto. He’s been as poor as any since he came back from injury. At fault for goals in most game’s for me


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[DaveF]

At this moment in time neither is Porto. He’s been as poor as any since he came back from injury. At fault for goals in most game’s for me


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Yep, he has definitely been culpable for a few goals but it's part of his learning and we should be able to accept this. It will make him a better player in the long run. If only we could afford the same grace to the like of Murray and Shaw they might thrive.

[Iggy Pope]

For goodness sake!

How do you think this young laddie feels reading this and having to put up with you lot tearing him apart.

How would you feel if this were your son and you had to read the soul destroying comments written here.

Like you i cannot now defend this manager and his miracle 89 mins substitutions, he is panicing too

A while ago this board had a lot of good positive comments to make about Fraser aye Football fans i know are fickle.

But this is just unbelievable, read back on it..... this isnt about the laddie its you arguing with each other!

You may see it as he lost you the game..... but how did the ball get up that end of the park? Why did it bypass all the players it did?

Its supposed to be a team game and his team mates let him down too!

100%
You got that email sorted out for me yet?
SY

[Anthony Soprano]

At this moment in time neither is Porto. He’s been as poor as any since he came back from injury. At fault for goals in most game’s for me


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Porto has proved his worth on numerous occasions before though and IMO is our best defender, I think Fraser Murray has the potential but as things stand at the moment isn't good enough to be in the first team.

[B.H.F.C]

Just seen the equaliser back again. Fraser misjudged the bounce. After that Josh Vela’s attempt at a block is utterly pathetic. In fact it’s bordering on downright being a sh*tebag! Following that, a firmly believe the goalkeeper is slow getting down and should save it.


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Vela’s attempt to block the shot was equalled by Stevenson’s attempt to block the cross in the first place.

Too many players not interested in doing the basics.

[Brightside]

I like Fraser but there was something very odd about his running style during the game. Also players don’t improve sitting on the bench. Motherwell developed great young players because they had to play. 20 mins every 6 weeks will cause more harm than good.

[Brightside]

Seen plenty of folk on here saying he should be starting 11 but i've seen nothing from his so far to justify that bar one or two nice passes, IMO none of the youth players bar Porto are good enough to be in the first team

Porto can have 6/7 mistakes in a game and he still gets MOTM shouts. It’s a weird situation. As long as you look like you’d go through a player and burst a ball people think you are the second coming. He’s got a long long way to go.

[Heisenberg]

Porto can have 6/7 mistakes in a game and he still gets MOTM shouts. It’s a weird situation. As long as you look like you’d go through a player and burst a ball people think you are the second coming. He’s got a long long way to go.

Porto has been better than Paul Hanlon this season. No question. Paul got bullied by wee Billy McKay on Saturday..

[Brightside]

Porto has been better than Paul Hanlon this season. No question. Paul got bullied by wee Billy McKay on Saturday..

So under every measurement he has not been better than him. But Paul is seen as soft by some and Porto is seen as the total opposite. Look at interception and tackle stats and Paul is our most consistent defender. Despite having a poor start. How many shots on target did Billy McKay get on Saturday? Fans have opinions on players and sometimes errors are forgotten about for that reason (like me and Hanlon). Scott Allan has actually been poor this season but because you get a couple of glimpses of magic in a game hes also seen as MOTM material for almost every game. He was as culpable as the rest of the midfield on Saturday for not closing down the opposition.

Back to the main point.....personally for me Fraser needs to go on loan somewhere and get a real run of games in order to progress. Hes not going to get that at Hibs.

[GoalsMcGinley]

So under every measurement he has not been better than him. But Paul is seen as soft by some and Porto is seen as the total opposite. Look at interception and tackle stats and Paul is our most consistent defender. Despite having a poor start. How many shots on target did Billy McKay get on Saturday? Fans have opinions on players and sometimes errors are forgotten about for that reason (like me and Hanlon). Scott Allan has actually been poor this season but because you get a couple of glimpses of magic in a game hes also seen as MOTM material for almost every game. He was as culpable as the rest of the midfield on Saturday for not closing down the opposition.

Back to the main point.....personally for me Fraser needs to go on loan somewhere and get a real run of games in order to progress. Hes not going to get that at Hibs.

Fraser will be away on loan in Jan if PH is still in charge. Simply has to for his own career.


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[Diclonius]

Porto can have 6/7 mistakes in a game and he still gets MOTM shouts. It’s a weird situation. As long as you look like you’d go through a player and burst a ball people think you are the second coming. He’s got a long long way to go.

Same situation as with McPake.

[DavidDavidGray]

How are people having a go at Porteous/Allan here? They are the only 2 players that have actually been decent this season, Allan creates at least 1/2 good chances per game and Porteous when you watch him is so defensively sound. Always seems to be in the right position, doesn’t lose headers and tries to get the ball forward. Could’ve done better with their first goal but I can’t understand why people seem so quick to criticise the players that are actually playing well for one mistake. Porteous gets MOTM shouts even if he makes a mistake in a game because for the rest of it he’ll have played well. Don’t get it at all

[GoalsMcGinley]

How are people having a go at Porteous/Allan here? They are the only 2 players that have actually been decent this season, Allan creates at least 1/2 good chances per game and Porteous when you watch him is so defensively sound. Always seems to be in the right position, doesn’t lose headers and tries to get the ball forward. Could’ve done better with their first goal but I can’t understand why people seem so quick to criticise the players that are actually playing well for one mistake. Porteous gets MOTM shouts even if he makes a mistake in a game because for the rest of it he’ll have played well. Don’t get it at all

Porto has been brought in to it because it seems he is immune from criticism and people seeing him as a 1st team player rather than a youngster. If it was Porto who had misjudged that header there would be a list of 10 players in front of him being blamed for costing us 2 points. I think Porto has huge potential but he’s miles away from being the finished article. He’s still to rash and since his return has cost us 3/4 goals that I can remember.


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[Eyrie]

I'm not going to blame Murray for a poor attempt at a header, because that's not one of his strengths.

I'll partly blame Mallan for starting to close their player down, then deciding to stop because it was Vela's man, and I'll mostly blame Vela for doing nothing at all.

[DavidDavidGray]

Porto has been brought in to it because it seems he is immune from criticism and people seeing him as a 1st team player rather than a youngster. If it was Porto who had misjudged that header there would be a list of 10 players in front of him being blamed for costing us 2 points. I think Porto has huge potential but he’s miles away from being the finished article. He’s still to rash and since his return has cost us 3/4 goals that I can remember.


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Of course he’s not the finished article mate it’s his second actual season of professional football, he doesn’t get stick because everyone can see he does more than enough to make up for it. Cannot see how your logic goes to blaming one of our best and youngest players. Players like Vela, Newell etc get more stick than Porteous because they make a lot more mistakes, don’t try as hard and don’t do enough to warrant being let off of criticism. He’s not immune from criticism it’s just strange to have a go at a player who’s actually playing well

[GoalsMcGinley]

Of course he’s not the finished article mate it’s his second actual season of professional football, he doesn’t get stick because everyone can see he does more than enough to make up for it. Cannot see how your logic goes to blaming one of our best and youngest players. Players like Vela, Newell etc get more stick than Porteous because they make a lot more mistakes, don’t try as hard and don’t do enough to warrant being let off of criticism. He’s not immune from criticism it’s just strange to have a go at a player who’s actually playing well

I’m not having a pop at him. He’s been one of the better players. The point I’m making is that he cost us a goal at Aberdeen and not a dicky was said. Porto and Murray are the least of our worries right now. There’s a list as long as my arm who should be getting it stinking before they 2


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[Unseen work]

Jack Ross saying he’s been really impressed with Fraser Murray, wonder if we’ll start seeing him get more of a run out.

[04Sauzee]

Jack Ross saying he’s been really impressed with Fraser Murray, wonder if we’ll start seeing him get more of a run out.

I thought he might have got a shot when newall wasn't in the team on Wednesday. Murray needs to start making the bench as a minimum.

[Unseen work]

I thought he might have got a shot when newall wasn't in the team on Wednesday. Murray needs to start making the bench as a minimum.

Agree that he needs to start cementing his place. Bit of an odd one how years ago he came in and looked very food then wasn’t seen again for a while. End of last season he again came into the team and got a great assist v Aberdeen, expected him to kick on this season but has hardly touched a ball.

[Billy Whizz]

I thought he might have got a shot when newall wasn't in the team on Wednesday. Murray needs to start making the bench as a minimum.

Think Hibs thought Newell would make it, played really well on Tuesday, maybe in contention for a place in the squad today

[04Sauzee]

Think Hibs thought Newell would make it, played really well on Tuesday, maybe in contention for a place in the squad today

I hope so Billy, needs some game time if he's to make it at ER and I'd love him to make it.

[Billy Whizz]

I hope so Billy, needs some game time if he's to make it at ER and I'd love him to make it.

Think we all would, was in great form on Tuesday

[J-C]

Think we all would, was in great form on Tuesday

Think he's done well most games he played, wrongly accused of not going for a ball when he misjudged it and been very good in most reserve games, needs to be given a chance.

[Smartie]

The problem I think Murray has it that it's hard to work out what type of player he is, where he fits into a team and in what formation. I remember John Collins having the same sort of issue with Dean Shiels.

He's not a striker, he's not a central midfielder, he's not a winger. I suppose I was starting to think the same about Newell and he really seems to have come into his own as part of the diamond.

Murray's biggest problem is that the way we play he's probably most naturally suited to playing behind the strikers and there is some serious competition for just one place in there.

It's a shame because I really like him as a player, he's clearly got an awful lot about him (as did Shiels) but I just don't know where and how we accommodate him. And some of the criticism he has received for very minor errors has been ridiculous.


I do think that like Shaw he really needs to be playing regularly very soon, he's not going to improve much further playing in the reserves and only getting very fleeting appearances in our first team.

[Jones28]

The problem I think Murray has it that it's hard to work out what type of player he is, where he fits into a team and in what formation. I remember John Collins having the same sort of issue with Dean Shiels.

He's not a striker, he's not a central midfielder, he's not a winger. I suppose I was starting to think the same about Newell and he really seems to have come into his own as part of the diamond.

Murray's biggest problem is that the way we play he's probably most naturally suited to playing behind the strikers and there is some serious competition for just one place in there.

It's a shame because I really like him as a player, he's clearly got an awful lot about him (as did Shiels) but I just don't know where and how we accommodate him. And some of the criticism he has received for very minor errors has been ridiculous.


I do think that like Shaw he really needs to be playing regularly very soon, he's not going to improve much further playing in the reserves and only getting very fleeting appearances in our first team.

Would you describe him as a left sided inside forward?

[Smartie]

Would you describe him as a left sided inside forward?

Possibly.

What formation do you need to play to accommodate one of those?

[Diclonius]

Bit of an odd one how years ago he came in and looked very food then wasn’t seen again for a while.

Let's hope he still has the appetite to make it after a long period of having nothing on his plate.

[Unseen work]

What is everyone’s opinion of him?

A lot of managers seem to rate him and see him daily in training but for me I’m just not convinced.

When he first came on the scene I thought he looked very good but now when I see him come on he seems to not make much of an impact. He’s neat and tidy on the ball but just doesn’t seem to do much else.

I’m not convinced that he’ll beat an opposition player with pace, strength or in a one v one scenario.

He is quite good at receiving the ball on the half turn but for me if he wants to play the number 10 role he needs to be a much bigger threat.

Interesting he slotted back into centre mid yesterday when Slivka went off, albeit was when we went all out attack but could we see him there in future?

I see him as similar to Danny Handling in a way, a lot of people are desperate for him to excel and be a first team regular but we’re not seeing much.

21 in May so he’s not the youngest, desperately needs a spell on loan playing first team football consistently to get some confidence.

[Onceinawhile]

Thought he was thoroughly meh on Saturday. Needs more games, but not convinced he will get them at easter road. Think he'll make a career out of football, but not necessarily at any higher level.

[Alfred E Newman]

We already have five pages of debate on the ability and future of Fraser Murray, do we really need any more at the moment?

[Unseen work]

We already have five pages of debate on the ability and future of Fraser Murray, do we really need any more at the moment?

Sorry, never realised there was a limit on how much we can discuss players.

Fwiw most the previous pages are discussing when he made a mistake which cost a goal

[cameronw-hfc]

I rate fraser highly and think hes been hard done by. He's been unfortunate with injuries and hecky not playing him after saying how highly rated he was. Still think with some decent game time he can be a good player

[Helensburghhibs]

When newell got injured I actually thought Fraser would have been a better direct replacement than Lewis in that formation. Lewis is a solid defender but the good thing about 3 at the back is allowing the wingbacks to be very attacking which isn't Lewis strength

[Billy Whizz]

He should start on Friday night v Inverness

[DaveF]

Thought he was thoroughly meh on Saturday. Needs more games, but not convinced he will get them at easter road. Think he'll make a career out of football, but not necessarily at any higher level.

Thoroughly meh? Had one shot at goal during his 30mins which was more than most in the team managed. If he was meh, let's hear your pearls of wisdom on everyone else. Should be riveting.

[04Sauzee]

Thought he was thoroughly meh on Saturday. Needs more games, but not convinced he will get them at easter road. Think he'll make a career out of football, but not necessarily at any higher level.

Thought he looked good when he came on, nothing meh for me

[truehibernian]

He should start on Friday night v Inverness

Not for me Billy - play our strongest 11 and Fraser isn't even in our strongest 16. Needs a loan in the Championship or a lower league down south next season and regular game time to really develop. Nowhere near first team (SPFL) level in my opinion. Was really surprised we never loaned him in the window as he has talent (great technically) but needs to grow physically and play against men, not boys.

[Gaffer1875]

I want to rate him but I don’t. Last time I saw him was when he came on against Dundee U at home in the cup replay, some nice touches but didn’t track back, no really press one energy.

I hope he proves me wrong though!


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[HendoDelivered]

Think a loan would benefit him massively.

[The Modfather]

Showed promise when he first broke through, was badly managed (Should have either been given game time or sent on loan), and hasn’t improved much in the last 2 years as a result. Sadly, don’t think he’ll ever make it above being a squad player getting the odd 20 mins here and there.

Think he’s an example of the wider questions about our youth set up and pathway to the first team over the last decade or so.

[Onceinawhile]

Thoroughly meh? Had one shot at goal during his 30mins which was more than most in the team managed. If he was meh, let's hear your pearls of wisdom on everyone else. Should be riveting.

If an attacking midfielder having a shot easily saved by the goalkeeper means they played well, then I guess Scott Allan did too?

All I'm saying is I didn't think he was a standout either way. Didn't hugely impress me, didn't think he was terrible.

[neil7908]

Think a loan would benefit him massively.

Agreed. He's still young but the times I've seen him he hasn't looked an SPL level player.

A season in the Championship would be ideal for him. We have loads of central midfielders and right now he's behind them all imo.

[DetroitHibs]

I'll stick my neck out and say he won't make it at Hibs.

[jacomo]

I'll stick my neck out and say he won't make it at Hibs.


Thanks. Your view of his development from Detroit is highly valued.

[Smartie]

Thought he looked good when he came on, nothing meh for me

So did I.

He's looked pretty lively during his last few cameos.

He was better during his time on the pitch than a few of the more celebrated players who played on Saturday.

[Smartie]

Showed promise when he first broke through, was badly managed (Should have either been given game time or sent on loan), and hasn’t improved much in the last 2 years as a result. Sadly, don’t think he’ll ever make it above being a squad player getting the odd 20 mins here and there.

Think he’s an example of the wider questions about our youth set up and pathway to the first team over the last decade or so.

I think we need to start asking some more questions of the club in this area pretty soon.

We seem to get a lot of players who get close to the first team, never really get a chance then end up being released in their early twenties.

[jacomo]

I think we need to start asking some more questions of the club in this area pretty soon.

We seem to get a lot of players who get close to the first team, never really get a chance then end up being released in their early twenties.


:agree:

[basehibby]

I think he has great technique and looks a good physical specimen - tall and quick - but undoubtably needs to grab his chances by the scruff of the neck in what is a midfield full of talented players.

He has the talent but his chances at Hibs will not come thick and fast unless he makes an irrefutable claim via goals and assists when he does get the chance to play.

[GoalsMcGinley]

I want to rate him but I don’t. Last time I saw him was when he came on against Dundee U at home in the cup replay, some nice touches but didn’t track back, no really press one energy.

I hope he proves me wrong though!


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Nonsense. The 1st thing be done that night was chase a nothing ball in to the corner which won us a corner that the 3rd goal came from. Hibs fans man. Honestly.


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[Alfred E Newman]

I'll stick my neck out and say he won't make it at Hibs.

Good for you.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Some on here seem desperate for him to fail. I'm not one of them. He has the attributes to cement his place in the team, especially if JR persists with 3-5-2

For those advocating a loan to develop him that is not what he needs. He needs game time at Hibs which he is now getting, along with Gullan. JR is giving him that game time and seems to use him as a 60th minute sub, usually for Scott Allan to change the approach in the 2nd half. If the manager has confidence in him so do I.

[Heisenberg]

Don’t see him ever becoming a first team regular with us unfortunately. Should’ve been out on loan before now.

[JDT]

I'd play him before Slivka that's for sure

[DaveF]

Some on here seem desperate for him to fail. I'm not one of them. He has the attributes to cement his place in the team, especially if JR persists with 3-5-2

For those advocating a loan to develop him that is not what he needs. He needs game time at Hibs which he is now getting, along with Gullan. JR is giving him that game time and seems to use him as a 60th minute sub, usually for Scott Allan to change the approach in the 2nd half. If the manager has confidence in him so do I.

Completely agree. If Murray had been given the number of chances Slivka has for example, and failed then some.of these comments might have some merit. But he hasn't so give the laddie time rather than writing him off.

[Billy Whizz]

Completely agree. If Murray had been given the number of chances Slivka has for example, and failed then some.of these comments might have some merit. But he hasn't so give the laddie time rather than writing him off.

Last 2 games Fraser has come on, Ross County and Livingston, he’s been excellent. About time he gets a start

[DaveF]

Last 2 games Fraser has come on, Ross County and Livingston, he’s been excellent. About time he gets a start

Yep I agree Billy. He may well not make it but I'd like to seem him being given a fair chance to prove his worth first.

[The Modfather]

Some on here seem desperate for him to fail. I'm not one of them. He has the attributes to cement his place in the team, especially if JR persists with 3-5-2

For those advocating a loan to develop him that is not what he needs. He needs game time at Hibs which he is now getting, along with Gullan. JR is giving him that game time and seems to use him as a 60th minute sub, usually for Scott Allan to change the approach in the 2nd half. If the manager has confidence in him so do I.

Can you point to any posts that show they are desperate for him to fail? Folk have pointed out he’s been badly managed and left to stagnate for a couple of years, and as a result difficult to see him ever being more than a squad player. Others disagree but I fail to see how it’s an unreasonable opinion.

[Unseen work]

Last 2 games Fraser has come on, Ross County and Livingston, he’s been excellent. About time he gets a start

Excellent?! Really?

If that’s him playing excellent I’d hate to see him having a poor game.

[J-C]

Oh a young up and coming prospect, do we support him, nah! he's pi_sh and won't make it here, even if we've hardly seen him play.

[scoopyboy]

Last 2 games Fraser has come on, Ross County and Livingston, he’s been excellent. About time he gets a start

I really want Fraser to make it Billy but I have my doubts.

You have saw a lot more of him than me in Development games etc so I hope your faith turns up trumps. Maybe starts is what he needs as short periods as a sub isn't ideal.

[GoalsMcGinley]

Oh a young up and coming prospect, do we support him, nah! he's pi_sh and won't make it here, even if we've hardly seen him play.

Done it to every young player ever to come through the system. Golden generation included. I’d hate to see the amount of stick Garry O’Connor would have got in his 1st season or two!!


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[Billy Whizz]

I really want Fraser to make it Billy but I have my doubts.

You have saw a lot more of him than me in Development games etc so I hope your faith turns up trumps. Maybe starts is what he needs as short periods as a sub isn't ideal.

Scoopyboy, trust me he’s good enough
Jack wanted him at Hibs rather than send him out on loan

[scoopyboy]

Scoopyboy, trust me he’s good enough
Jack wanted him at Hibs rather than send him out on loan

I trust you Billy.

I like his set piece deliveries and has a good first touch.

For me he has to put himself about a bit more, in some of the games he comes on in I think he is easily bullied

[CMac1988]

Time will tell and he still has a fair amount left to prove so.

We have a pretty talented midfield just now all vying for one another's position. On recent showing though why not give him a start in front of Slivka if Newell is still injured?

[Robbo6-2]

He passed the ball to more hibs players in the 30minutes he was on a hell of alot more than Allan did in the previous 60

[Peevemor]

Done it to every young player ever to come through the system. Golden generation included. I’d hate to see the amount of stick Garry O’Connor would have got in his 1st season or two!!


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I remember when GO'C got his first regular run in the first team. He did everything but score and gave the impression that he was maybe trying too hard.

The fans were 100% behind him though.

[The Tubs]

He should start on Friday night v Inverness


I agree. It might be what Allan needs to focus his mind.

[CapitalGreen]

I remember when GO'C got his first regular run in the first team. He did everything but score and gave the impression that he was maybe trying too hard.

The fans were 100% behind him though.

That’s a bit revisionist, Garry O’Connor got plenty stick from fans both at games and on here in his first few seasons. In summer 2003 before Mowbray came in there were fans who wouldn’t have been bothered if was to have left.

[easty]

Last 2 games Fraser has come on, Ross County and Livingston, he’s been excellent. About time he gets a start

Excellent is a push. He was better than the others who were underperforming around him.

[Peevemor]

That’s a bit revisionist, Garry O’Connor got plenty stick from fans both at games and on here in his first few seasons. In summer 2003 before Mowbray came in there were fans who wouldn’t have been bothered if was to have left.

Not when he first broke into the team - maybe afterward once he was more established.

[WeeRussell]

I think he’s going to be a good player, and can make it at us.

Didn’t particularly impress me on Saturday, as was the case with most of our players bar Docherty.

But from what I’ve seen from Fraser before, he definitely has a future at us.

[CapitalGreen]

Not when he first broke into the team - maybe afterward once he was more established.

He would have been 19/20 years old at the time, same age as Murray is now.

[Smartie]

That’s a bit revisionist, Garry O’Connor got plenty stick from fans both at games and on here in his first few seasons. In summer 2003 before Mowbray came in there were fans who wouldn’t have been bothered if was to have left.

O’Connor was average in a Williamson team that lumped it long to him because he was big.

As soon as Mowbray came in we saw a different player. I’ve always thought O’Connor was a bit under appreciated - he’d knock his pan in for 90 minutes doing all the donkey work and Riordan would produce a couple of smart finishes and be motm. In a team full of very good players O’Connor was up there with the best of them.

[Peevemor]

He would have been 19/20 years old at the time, same age as Murray is now.

Fair enough.

GO'C got a handful of appearances here and there up until about Christmas, then in January he got a string of appearances/matches and everyone was behind him and desperate from him to score which he eventually did toward the end of the month and he went on to finish that season fairly well.

He didn't score that many for the next couple of seasons, but the whole team was getting stick as we were in our darkest Blobby period (and playing some of the worst football that we'd seen in a long time).

[Peevemor]

O’Connor was average in a Williamson team that lumped it long to him because he was big.

As soon as Mowbray came in we saw a different player. I’ve always thought O’Connor was a bit under appreciated - he’d knock his pan in for 90 minutes doing all the donkey work and Riordan would produce a couple of smart finishes and be motm. In a team full of very good players O’Connor was up there with the best of them.

:agree:

[JimBHibees]

I think we need to start asking some more questions of the club in this area pretty soon.

We seem to get a lot of players who get close to the first team, never really get a chance then end up being released in their early twenties.

Younger players have to prove that they are good enough. Coaches will always try and choose the best team based on what they see in training and friendly games.

[J-C]

Coaches are under pressure to hit the ground running and we never seem to get one that lasts more than 2 seasons, so young players never get a chance to develop. New manager comes in and wants/needs experienced players asap to get his team moving up the table, youngsters are then ignored while average older players are preferred, so the merry go round continues.

[easty]

Coaches are under pressure to hit the ground running and we never seem to get one that lasts more than 2 seasons, so young players never get a chance to develop. New manager comes in and wants/needs experienced players asap to get his team moving up the table, youngsters are then ignored while average older players are preferred, so the merry go round continues.

The coaches are there to win games. They pick the team they think will be best equipped to do that. The youngsters aren't ignored, if they're good enough to get a place in the team, then they'll be picked.

[GoalsMcGinley]

The coaches are there to win games. They pick the team they think will be best equipped to do that. The youngsters aren't ignored, if they're good enough to get a place in the team, then they'll be picked.

Simply untrue. Proven by our previous managers signing lower league guff rather than our young guys a chance.


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[bigwheel]

Simply untrue. Proven by our previous managers signing lower league guff rather than our young guys a chance.


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Like Doidge? Newell ? Boyle? McGinn ?

[Diclonius]

I'd start him against ICT in place of Allan.

[supermcginn]

I'd start him against ICT in place of Allan.

No thanks.

[BILLYHIBS]

I'd start him against ICT in place of Allan.

Let me think about that one.....

No!

[DetroitHibs]

Lads almost 21, he needs to be starting first team games already.

[calumhibee1]

Simply untrue. Proven by our previous managers signing lower league guff rather than our young guys a chance.


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Who have we not gave a chance to because of lower league guff?

[Hibs90]

Lads almost 21, he needs to be starting first team games already.

File him under the same category as Shaw. Doesn't get enough game time to improve, but arguably doesn't do enough when he does get game time.

[GoalsMcGinley]

Like Doidge? Newell ? Boyle? McGinn ?

Like James, Maxwell, Middleton, Slivka and that’s just this season.

I can give you examples from previous seasons if you like?


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[hibbysam]

Like James, Maxwell, Middleton, Slivka and that’s just this season.

I can give you examples from previous seasons if you like?


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Can you quantify those names with the players they kept out the team?

[GoalsMcGinley]

Like James, Maxwell, Middleton, Slivka and that’s just this season.

I can give you examples from previous seasons if you like?


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You can add Horgan to that list as well. Gets a free ride coz he scored a couple at tynie.


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[calumhibee1]

You can add Horgan to that list as well. Gets a free ride coz he scored a couple at tynie.


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I’m not Horgans biggest fan but with 10 goals in 73 games and a good number of assists I think it’s easy to see why he’s been ahead of Murray in the pecking order.

Also, what young players have been kept out the team by James and Maxwell? You can’t pick a crap goalie and say they’re keeping a young attacking midfielder out the team? :confused:

[MWHIBBIES]

Like James, Maxwell, Middleton, Slivka and that’s just this season.

I can give you examples from previous seasons if you like?


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Slivka has shown a lot more than Murray. And I very much like Murray and want him to do well. Slivka is clearly a better player.

[calumhibee1]

You can add Horgan to that list as well. Gets a free ride coz he scored a couple at tynie.


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I’m not Horgans biggest fan but with 10 goals in 73 games and a good number of assists I think it’s easy to see why he’s been ahead of Murray in the pecking order.

[MikeyS]

Like James, Maxwell, Middleton, Slivka and that’s just this season.

I can give you examples from previous seasons if you like?


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What 'lower league' did we sign Maxwell, Middleton & Slivka from??

Like Easty said above, managers are paid to win matches by putting what they see as the best players out on the park. I dont think any of our previous managers can be accused of purposely trying to block young players just for the sake of it.

[ancient hibee]

We have changed managers so frequently that none have seen young players coming through.It’s only natural that a new manager will go for experienced players who he thinks can”do a job” rather than risking youngsters who may do him out of a job.

[wookie70]

I’m not Horgans biggest fan but with 10 goals in 73 games and a good number of assists I think it’s easy to see why he’s been ahead of Murray in the pecking order.

Also, what young players have been kept out the team by James and Maxwell? You can’t pick a crap goalie and say they’re keeping a young attacking midfielder out the team? :confused:

Horgan has scored at a rate of a goal every 4.8 matches and Murray a goal every 2.5 matches. Both are around an assist every 3.7 games with Murray very slightly ahead. Murray, at least on stats, is worth a try for a good few games even as sub. Allan has been poor for weeks, Horgan very inconsistent and Mallan injured. I like Murray but if he can't get game time then he needs to be developed elsewhere.

[Hibeesmad]

Horgan has scored at a rate of a goal every 4.8 matches and Murray a goal every 2.5 matches. Both are around an assist every 3.7 games with Murray very slightly ahead. Murray, at least on stats, is worth a try for a good few games even as sub. Allan has been poor for weeks, Horgan very inconsistent and Mallan injured. I like Murray but if he can't get game time then he needs to be developed elsewhere.

Not bad when you consider that £7 million Ryan Kent hasn't had an assist in the league in over a year.

[Hibernian Verse]

Not bad when you consider that £7 million Ryan Kent hasn't had an assist in the league in over a year.Yeah but it's Horgan that's ***** don't forget!

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[Unseen work]

Horgan has scored at a rate of a goal every 4.8 matches and Murray a goal every 2.5 matches. Both are around an assist every 3.7 games with Murray very slightly ahead. Murray, at least on stats, is worth a try for a good few games even as sub. Allan has been poor for weeks, Horgan very inconsistent and Mallan injured. I like Murray but if he can't get game time then he needs to be developed elsewhere.

Murray as in Fraser Murray? He has a goal every 2.5 matches?

I must have missed all of these competitive goals.

[PH91]

Is Murray's versatility hampering him? He comes on but never consistently in the same position, I'm not even sure what his strongest position is.

He seems like a wide midfielder to me i.e. wide of a 4 rather than a wide forward. Where did he play in the development team?

[calumhibee1]

Murray as in Fraser Murray? He has a goal every 2.5 matches?

I must have missed all of these competitive goals.

I think it’s probably when you add up all his minutes and goals and then divide those minutes by 90 to get full games if that makes sense. So if someone makes 9x 10 minute sub appearances and score 2 then they’re scoring 2 goals a game.

The thing with Murray is that his goal every 2.5 games means he’s played about 7 and a half first team games using that sort of logic. The majority of they “games” will probably be against lower league teams where as Horgans will be much more heavily weighted towards being against teams at Scottish Premiership level.

[wookie70]

I think it’s probably when you add up all his minutes and goals and then divide those minutes by 90 to get full games if that makes sense. So if someone makes 9x 10 minute sub appearances and score 2 then they’re scoring 2 goals a game.

The thing with Murray is that his goal every 2.5 games means he’s played about 7 and a half first team games using that sort of logic. The majority of they “games” will probably be against lower league teams where as Horgans will be much more heavily weighted towards being against teams at Scottish Premiership level.

Yep, I used 90 minutes of game time and you are right that Fraser's goals are all in cup games. Horgan has 6 goals in the top league and 4 in cup games. Looking again I have made an arse of it as the stats included dev games in the challenge cup, albeit against Elgin and the like. He is a goal every 3 games for the first team so still very good. He is only likely to score and assist when he gets on the pitch and most of his appearances have been against lesser opposition.

[tamig]

I trust you Billy.

I like his set piece deliveries and has a good first touch.

For me he has to put himself about a bit more, in some of the games he comes on in I think he is easily bullied

Agreed. His set pieces are very good and he does seem to have bulked up a bit. He needs to learn how to use that added muscle though. Far too easily nudged out of things.

[B.H.F.C]

Agreed. His set pieces are very good and he does seem to have bulked up a bit. He needs to learn how to use that added muscle though. Far too easily nudged out of things.

I think it’s more of a mental thing than anything. He’s coming up for 21 but he’s still like a wee laddie on the pitch. Neat and tidy on the ball, has more to offer I think, but needs to show a bit more belief, arrogance or whatever you want to call it. I just think he’s a bit too timid.

[Unseen work]

I think it’s more of a mental thing than anything. He’s coming up for 21 but he’s still like a wee laddie on the pitch. Neat and tidy on the ball, has more to offer I think, but needs to show a bit more belief, arrogance or whatever you want to call it. I just think he’s a bit too timid.

This is sort of where I’m at.

He keeps the ball well but it’s normally one or two touches then a simple pass. He very rarely takes risk or makes a penetrating pass or run, when he comes on and we’re chasing the game or looking for a goal he needs to make more of an impact imo.

He got a fantastic assist last season against Aberdeen but we’ve not seen it nearly enough.

[calumhibee1]

I think it’s more of a mental thing than anything. He’s coming up for 21 but he’s still like a wee laddie on the pitch. Neat and tidy on the ball, has more to offer I think, but needs to show a bit more belief, arrogance or whatever you want to call it. I just think he’s a bit too timid.

:agree:

This is why I always say JC was a good player. He didn’t have that same overcoached feel that guys like Murray, Stanton, Handling etc have and was a bit more of a maverick. If these guys had JCs belief to go and try things rather than just keep it simple they’d maybe have come closer to making it here imo.

[DaveF]

:agree:

This is why I always say JC was a good player. He didn’t have that same overcoached feel that guys like Murray, Stanton, Handling etc have and was a bit more of a maverick. If these guys had JCs belief to go and try things rather than just keep it simple they’d maybe have come closer to making it here imo.

What do you want Murray to do? He has good skill, can make a (forward) pass and isn't afraid to shoot - something even John McGinn was criticised for early on in his career.

If he gets half a dozen games and does nothing then fine, he would merit the criticism. But until that happens I maintain he isn't getting a fair chance.

[JimBHibees]

I think ideally he would have went on loan for this part of the season think there was mention of Dundee however got a run against United and also 30 mins at the weekend which is a fair chunk of the game so think he is getting a chance. Up to Fraser to build on that over next few games.

[The Count]

:agree:

This is why I always say JC was a good player. He didn’t have that same overcoached feel that guys like Murray, Stanton, Handling etc have and was a bit more of a maverick. If these guys had JCs belief to go and try things rather than just keep it simple they’d maybe have come closer to making it here imo.

Interesting point.Are kids over coached these days becoming robotic rather than natural.Never thought of that angle before.

[MagicSwirlingShip]

Hard to judge a laddie without seeing him play a few 90 minutes in a row. He’s still young enough to make an impact , hope he gets his chance and grabs it

[04Sauzee]

Interesting point.Are kids over coached these days becoming robotic rather than natural.Never thought of that angle before.

Not sure what it's like at the academies but if yiu go to any kids games at the weekend and you will see coaches shouting at kids to go here or go there etc. Lids aren't even aloud to think for themselves to learn from their mistakes.

[easty]

:agree:

This is why I always say JC was a good player. He didn’t have that same overcoached feel that guys like Murray, Stanton, Handling etc have and was a bit more of a maverick. If these guys had JCs belief to go and try things rather than just keep it simple they’d maybe have come closer to making it here imo.

JC was just better than them.

It’s not overcoaching that’s resulted in Danny Handling now playing at Edin City. It’s the fact that he wasn’t good enough to play at our level. The same goes for Sam Stanton. We’ll have to wait and see if Fraser Murray has what it takes. You need the ability, the drive, and the attitude to make it.

Unless the suggestion is that our coaches don’t know what they’re doing and aren’t coaching well, then to say anyone fails to make it cos of “over-coaching” is nonsense.

[easty]

Not sure what it's like at the academies but if yiu go to any kids games at the weekend and you will see coaches shouting at kids to go here or go there etc. Lids aren't even aloud to think for themselves to learn from their mistakes.

Coaches are coaching then?

[Brightside]

Not sure what it's like at the academies but if yiu go to any kids games at the weekend and you will see coaches shouting at kids to go here or go there etc. Lids aren't even aloud to think for themselves to learn from their mistakes.

thats just poor coaching - and if you or anyone has a coach doing that move the kid elsewhere. Coaching in games should be minimal. Thats what training sessions are for.

[Onceinawhile]

Not sure what it's like at the academies but if yiu go to any kids games at the weekend and you will see coaches shouting at kids to go here or go there etc. Lids aren't even aloud to think for themselves to learn from their mistakes.

Then those coaches should be removed. Coaches shouldn't joystick their players, that's one of the most central themes running through the SFA's coaching courses.

[easty]

thats just poor coaching - and if you or anyone has a coach doing that move the kid elsewhere. Coaching in games should be minimal. Thats what training sessions are for.


Then those coaches should be removed. Coaches shouldn't joystick their players, that's one of the most central themes running through the SFA's coaching courses.

Youth coaches aren't meant to tell kids where they should be on the pitch? I take it thats been the norm for a while then, and explains why Scotland have had such a **** defence for so long.:greengrin

[Smartie]

JC was just better than them.

It’s not overcoaching that’s resulted in Danny Handling now playing at Edin City. It’s the fact that he wasn’t good enough to play at our level. The same goes for Sam Stanton. We’ll have to wait and see if Fraser Murray has what it takes. You need the ability, the drive, and the attitude to make it.

Unless the suggestion is that our coaches don’t know what they’re doing and aren’t coaching well, then to say anyone fails to make it cos of “over-coaching” is nonsense.

In the case of Stanton and Handling, their problem was mainly their physical development - neither of them were either going to be quite strong or quick enough to get beyond a certain level.

Both were (are) tidy technical players with a good set of skilful attributes.

We often get criticised for letting good players go for being "too wee" and then see them develop physically - I'd say that in the case of this pair, they were always too wee and were either too easily muscled off the ball or didn't quite have that extra burst of pace to take them away from players. There's only a certain improvement can be made in this area - Riordan tried and failed for years to bulk up and no matter how hard Stevie Mallan tries he'll never have a burst of pace to take him away from players. Those 2 had better other attributes to overcome their weaknesses that Stanton and Handling just didn't have.

[J-C]

In the case of Stanton and Handling, their problem was mainly their physical development - neither of them were either going to be quite strong or quick enough to get beyond a certain level.

Both were (are) tidy technical players with a good set of skilful attributes.

We often get criticised for letting good players go for being "too wee" and then see them develop physically - I'd say that in the case of this pair, they were always too wee and were either too easily muscled off the ball or didn't quite have that extra burst of pace to take them away from players. There's only a certain improvement can be made in this area - Riordan tried and failed for years to bulk up and no matter how hard Stevie Mallan tries he'll never have a burst of pace to take him away from players. Those 2 had better other attributes to overcome their weaknesses that Stanton and Handling just didn't have.

That was a problem with the Jim McDonough era at Hibs, technically good players but were never physically or mentally ready to take the net step up to the 1st team.

[Robbo6-2]

Suspended for Fridays game for sending off in reserves.

What a nightmare for the laddie

[Greenbeard]

Slivka has shown a lot more than Murray. And I very much like Murray and want him to do well. Slivka is clearly a better player.
100% no future for Slivka at Hibs. Def potential future for Murray. Wave goodbye to one. Give opportunities to the other.
But I worry that Slivka will start v ICT on Friday and against lesser opposition will get the time and space he needs to put in a decent shift and have some folk raving about what a classy player he is when he is really powder puff p1sh.

[Brightside]

Youth coaches aren't meant to tell kids where they should be on the pitch? I take it thats been the norm for a while then, and explains why Scotland have had such a **** defence for so long.:greengrin

Tell them at training. You can guide them on the pitch - especially when younger - but they have to learn from mistakes they make on the pitch. Telling kids what passes to make during a game is pish poor - but as others have said you hear it every week at youth games.

[Onceinawhile]

Youth coaches aren't meant to tell kids where they should be on the pitch? I take it thats been the norm for a while then, and explains why Scotland have had such a **** defence for so long.:greengrin

It's not that you shouldn't help them. Say your defender is standing in front of their attacker - if you shout at them to get back two yards or whatever, then they rely on you making the decision for them. If you tell them something like "don't forget to check your shoulders" then you can make them aware of the threat and they can figure out what action to take for themselves. Or you can say nothing and the opposition might score, then you feedback to them after the game that it's important to be goalside and if not, you need to check your shoulders and (hopefully) the defender realises this for future games. OK, your team has taken the hit of losing an avoidable goal if you had told the defender where to go, but hopefully, the player has developed.

[calumhibee1]

JC was just better than them.

It’s not overcoaching that’s resulted in Danny Handling now playing at Edin City. It’s the fact that he wasn’t good enough to play at our level. The same goes for Sam Stanton. We’ll have to wait and see if Fraser Murray has what it takes. You need the ability, the drive, and the attitude to make it.

Unless the suggestion is that our coaches don’t know what they’re doing and aren’t coaching well, then to say anyone fails to make it cos of “over-coaching” is nonsense.

Overcoached maybe is the wrong way to put it. But we do seem to bring through a lot of players who’s first thought is to get the ball under control and play a safe pass - whether that’s just coincidence or whether they have any sort of thought of driving with the ball, commuting a man etc coached out of them because we want them to pass the ball to death I’ve no idea.

Any time we have someone willing to do something a bit out of the ordinary it’s telling that they generally haven’t been at Hibs as a youth, or if they have, like JC, then it wasn’t for long. Guys like Allan, Boyle, Barker, JC, Docherty, McGinn have been the best we’ve had at being able to change a game or take it by the scruff of the neck recently. All of them having done most or all of their youth development elsewhere.

Not since Riordan and co have we really brought someone through the youth system who looks like they’d be willing to try something a bit out the ordinary.

[Brightside]

It's not that you shouldn't help them. Say your defender is standing in front of their attacker - if you shout at them to get back two yards or whatever, then they rely on you making the decision for them. If you tell them something like "don't forget to check your shoulders" then you can make them aware of the threat and they can figure out what action to take for themselves. Or you can say nothing and the opposition might score, then you feedback to them after the game that it's important to be goalside and if not, you need to check your shoulders and (hopefully) the defender realises this for future games. OK, your team has taken the hit of losing an avoidable goal if you had told the defender where to go, but hopefully, the player has developed.

Yep - I would always shout "Shoulders" to defenders during games. Same with telling strikers to watch the line etc. Its little words of encouragement and ensuring good habits. I still shout the same to Lewis at home games!

[scoopyboy]

Suspended for Fridays game for sending off in reserves.

What a nightmare for the laddie

It is but its better than an injury.

I'm not so sure a Scottish Cup quarter final was the game to start him in anyway.

ICT will kick everything that moves.

[04Sauzee]

thats just poor coaching - and if you or anyone has a coach doing that move the kid elsewhere. Coaching in games should be minimal. Thats what training sessions are for.

I agree, i help with my boys team and it's something i have observed in matches against other team. Kids are probably scared to try something different on the pitch. Midweeks or for coaching, weekends are for allowing the kids to express themselves

[500miles]

Is Fraser definitely suspended for Friday? Wasn't Cummings in a similar position previously?

[foxy]

Is Fraser definitely suspended for Friday? Wasn't Cummings in a similar position previously?

Yes he is because it was for violent conduct and the 1st game of the 2 game suspension is Friday and the 2nd game will be the next Reserve Cup game.

Think Cummings was sent off for dissent and swearing at the referee in a development league game if my memory is correct and that suspension only applied to development games

[DaveF]

Yes he is because it was for violent conduct and the 1st game of the 2 game suspension is Friday and the 2nd game will be the next Reserve Cup game.

Think Cummings was sent off for dissent and swearing at the referee in a development league game if my memory is correct and that suspension only applied to development games

I can't see anything on the SFA disciplinary pages? The latest update is Keating's hearing which is scheduled for tomorrow.

[Billy Whizz]

I can't see anything on the SFA disciplinary pages? The latest update is Keating's hearing which is scheduled for tomorrow.

Usually updated on a Thursday

[JimBHibees]

Usually updated on a Thursday

Really quite unfortunate for Fraser as would have played a part from the bench IMO.

[Billy Whizz]

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/6067/los34-27-february-2020.pdf

1st team game immediate, and 1 SPFL Reserve cup match

[Onceinawhile]

Really quite unfortunate for Fraser as would have played a part from the bench IMO.

Unbelievably unlucky. Shame for the lad. Likely means more game time for Jamie gullan I'd imagine.

[ancient hibee]

Unbelievably unlucky. Shame for the lad. Likely means more game time for Jamie gullan I'd imagine.


He's not unlucky.It's been described as a dreadful tackle.