Pound for Pound worst manager in years. Putting us backwards.

[Captain Trips]

Fenlon, Calderwood, Butcher etc all dross but had at least 1 factor in they had not the biggest budgets and always inherited squads needing work etc.

This joke has came in with about 10 games to go was able to assess the squad under no major fears have what was a decent team of players.

He then has a full pre season a free arrival of a classy midfielder in Allan, a club with finances on the up all and everything in place to move on.

He has totally ***xed everything right up from a position that should have been strength to this joke.

How dare you sack Butcher and continue with this disgrace under the circumstances afforded. No excuses for this other than GROSS INCOMPETANCE. If it continues its GROSS INCOMPETANCE from those above.

Heckingbottom pound for Pound is the worst manager in years a disgrace.

[Speedway]

Butcher is statistically our worst ever manager.

Compare his record to the current incompetent.

[Captain Trips]

Butcher is statistically our worst ever manager.

Compare his record to the current incompetent.

I don't give a **** about his record he never had the players or finances or time afforded hence Pound for Pound.

So for me the worst manager in years worse than Butcher by quite some way. I bet even TB, CC or PF would have had a few more wins with the squad PH started with then his funds.

[truehibernian]

I don't give a **** about his record he never had the players or finances or time afforded hence Pound for Pound.

So for me the worst manager in years worse than Butcher by quite some way. I bet even TB, CC or PF would have had a few more wins with the squad PH started with then his funds.

Trust me if you knew Butcher's pay-off he is by far and away the worst manager pound for pound - in saying that, financially (in recent times) it's actually Le God :cb:tin hat:

[Hibernia&Alba]

Still Butcher for me, as it was almost impossible to get us relegated from the position he inherited, yet he went and done it. That said, Hecky is shocking.

[Pete]

Butcher makes Heckingbottom look like Pep Guardiola.

[Captain Trips]

Trust me if you knew Butcher's pay-off he is by far and away the worst manager pound for pound - in saying that, financially (in recent times) it's actually Le God :cb:tin hat:

I'm not talking about wages I'm talking about opportunity and Heckingbottom was afforded by far the greatest to succeed than all mentioned.

How someone can manage what he has is really quite outstanding. Worse manager in years no win % changes that when tjose other guys had crap teams with less money.

NO EXCUSE IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM FOR THIS. ZERO.

[Jim44]

Focus should be off PH now as he has shot his bolt and is a lost cause. Pressure has to be put on LD and her team as they are turning a blind eye to our crisis.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Terry Butcher was a far worse manager.

Heckingbottom has plenty of faults and should leave the club ASAP, but why do we insist on using this hyperbole?

Of our last five managers, he’s third or fourth depending on how you judge Fenlon.

[Diclonius]

Butcher is statistically our worst ever manager.

No, Sauzee is.

[Captain Trips]

Terry Butcher was a far worse manager.

Heckingbottom has plenty of faults and should leave the club ASAP, but why do we insist on using this hyperbole?

Of our last five managers, he’s third or fourth depending on how you judge Fenlon.

I'm judging him on the opptunity afforded, PH should never ever have been put in a position to be compared to Fenlon, Calderwood etc but he has and that's the issue.

WTF more did a manager need to have a decent team? He has destroyed it and if keeps going we will be back on the merry-go-round of managers clearing up major messes.

[truehibernian]

I'm not talking about wages I'm talking about opportunity and Heckingbottom was afforded by far the greatest to succeed than all mentioned.

How someone can manage what he has is really quite outstanding. Worse manager in years no win % changes that when tjose other guys had crap teams with less money.

NO EXCUSE IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM FOR THIS. ZERO.

I know mate, I was trying to lighten it a little - I agree with your post and sentiment :aok:

Butcher and Franck however weren't poor after they left the club, put it that way :paid:

[Captain Trips]

I know mate, I was trying to lighten it a little - I agree with your post and sentiment :aok:

Butcher and Franck however weren't poor after they left the club, put it that way :paid:

Even if Heckingbottom was not being paid is not the point.

I look at Day 1 for all those managers and PH was miles ahead in terms of a platform yet his record by the week gets closer to theirs rather than further away. This is quite simply a monumental baws up.

Put it this way if he took over instead of Butcher we would have been relegated even sooner.

[hibeejeebies]

Fenlon, Calderwood, Butcher etc all dross but had at least 1 factor in they had not the biggest budgets and always inherited squads needing work etc.

This joke has came in with about 10 games to go was able to assess the squad under no major fears have what was a decent team of players.

He then has a full pre season a free arrival of a classy midfielder in Allan, a club with finances on the up all and everything in place to move on.

He has totally ***xed everything right up from a position that should have been strength to this joke.

How dare you sack Butcher and continue with this disgrace under the circumstances afforded. No excuses for this other than GROSS INCOMPETANCE. If it continues its GROSS INCOMPETANCE from those above.

Heckingbottom pound for Pound is the worst manager in years a disgrace.

Were you away when Butcher was here?

[judas]

Butcher is statistically our worst ever manager.

Compare his record to the current incompetent.

Nope. Sauzee is.

If we are talking win ratios then Heck is nowhere near our worst manager.

In fact he’s probably still in the top half.

[Captain Trips]

Were you away when Butcher was here?

Point missed entirely

[SickBoy32]

Totally agree with the OP.

The budget PH has wasted, and the general circumstances of his tenure - comfortably the worst manager this side of the millennium.

[Bob Box Fish]

On current form Hecky has won 1 of the last 15 league games. If I remember correctly Butchers horrific run was about 1 win from his last 20 ish league games ?

[HibeeHibernian4]

Point missed entirely

Not “point missed” at all, you’ve been presented with the facts but have decided that Heckingbottom is still the worst manager because...reasons.

[Captain Trips]

Not “point missed” at all, you’ve been presented with the facts but have decided that Heckingbottom is still the worst manager because...reasons.

I have stated why quite clearly that given the position he was given compared to all else in recent history there is absolutely unequivocally no excuse at all to be 11th.

This isn't about ratios this is about the environment and over the past 10 years this was truly a great time and opportunity to be manager here. I'm not saying Butcher was any good he was a ****ing joke of a manager. I have been presented win ratios which are not the point.

From the starting point given to every manager over last 10 years, Heckingbottom is for me the worst at the moment.

Butcher had us 2nd bottom after a long run of games from a higher position with a bunch of rather pish players, Heckingbottom is currently 2nd bottom with a hell of a lot more choice and money. Fu££ing disgraceful.

Kind of the meaning in pound for Pound not simply ratio or I wouldn't have used term. Point missed again then.

The last thing I'm ever going to do is defend that disgrace Butcher but his starting point vs Heckingbottoms are night and day. Yet after 10 games we are 11th.

[stoneyburn hibs]

It's now a chore,back to the Butcher relegation season. It's all very well saying that our new owner is taking time to assess the situation. The situation now is pretty desperate. Something needs to give, I really hope it's not the lifeblood of Hibernian.

[Speedway]

Nope. Sauzee is.

If we are talking win ratios then Heck is nowhere near our worst manager.

In fact he’s probably still in the top half.

Statistically:

Relegations with Hibs:

Butcher 1

Sauzee 0

Statistically, Butcher is the worst manager in our history.

[One Day Soon]

I have stated why quite clearly that given the position he was given compared to all else in recent history there is absolutely unequivocally no excuse at all to be 11th.

This isn't about ratios this is about the environment and over the past 10 years this was truly a great time and opportunity to be manager here. I'm not saying Butcher was any good he was a ****ing joke of a manager. I have been presented win ratios which are not the point.

From the starting point given to every manager over last 10 years, Heckingbottom is for me the worst at the moment.

Butcher had us 2nd bottom after a long run of games from a higher position with a bunch of rather pish players, Heckingbottom is currently 2nd bottom with a hell of a lot more choice and money. Fu££ing disgraceful.

Kind of the meaning in pound for Pound not simply ratio or I wouldn't have used term. Point missed again then.

The last thing I'm ever going to do is defend that disgrace Butcher but his starting point vs Heckingbottoms are night and day.

I'm inclined to agree with you. Taking everything into account including the squad he started with, the resources put at his disposal to make signings, the goodwill and momentum still around the club from the Scottish Cup win, the high attendances and the relative weakness of most of the other teams in the league it is truly astonishing how poorly he has us performing. Empirically others were worse, in relative terms he takes it.

[blackpoolhibs]

People actually wanted rid of Lennon for this. :faf:

Anyone would be better they said. :faf:

[Captain Trips]

I'm inclined to agree with you. Taking everything into account including the squad he started with, the resources put at his disposal to make signings, the goodwill and momentum still around the club from the Scottish Cup win, the high attendances and the relative weakness of most of the other teams in the league it is truly astonishing how poorly he has us performing. Empirically others were worse, in relative terms he takes it.

Indeed that is it spot on.

Butcher had a poorish team but they were more than capable of finishing higher if manager was decent unfortunately Butcher was pish.

PH is in a totally different place with almost everything geared for a season of success not trying to be 6th. It's gauling how bad he has done and I would say its quite unprecedented to be doing this badly from a position of such relative strength.

[Captain Trips]

People actually wanted rid of Lennon for this. :faf:

Anyone would be better they said. :faf:

I want rid of PH but like all appointments it is possible to bring in next manager who could be worse than PH that doesn't make wanting rid wrong.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Trust me if you knew Butcher's pay-off he is by far and away the worst manager pound for pound - in saying that, financially (in recent times) it's actually Le God :cb:tin hat:



but at least he did manage to get rid of the dross we had before he was pushed, 14 or 15 players iirc ?, i've always though if he had managed to get rid of another two or three before getting said push we might not have been so dross in our first championship year, it's great how the players avoided the criticism though compared to the manager

[The Harp Awakes]

People actually wanted rid of Lennon for this. :faf:

Anyone would be better they said. :faf:

I know. F@rking hilarious.

[Hibernia&Alba]

People actually wanted rid of Lennon for this. :faf:

Anyone would be better they said. :faf:

Neil Lennon is several leagues above Hecky in management ability. It's a shame how it all ended, but it was a good era overall.

[Captain Trips]

Neil Lennon is several leagues above Hecky in management ability. It's a shame how it all ended, but it was a good era overall.

Most folk are several leagues above him.

[One Day Soon]

People actually wanted rid of Lennon for this. :faf:

Anyone would be better they said. :faf:


Act in haste, repent at leisure.

Whatever else, he feared no one. Now we are afraid of literally everyone.

[Jim44]

People actually wanted rid of Lennon for this. :faf:

Anyone would be better they said. :faf:

The fact that LD unfortunately replaced Lennon with a dud doesn’t make his chaotic latter spell with us any better.

[steakbake]

Lennon lost it towards the end. The fact the club hired Heckingbottom as his replacement doesn’t change that.

A panicked appointment, after Lennon’s departure was mishandled. Three year contract, the bizarre dropping out of the apparent first choice (Appleton) and we are where we are.

The best days of Lennon’s tenure were some of the best I’ve seen as a Hibee. But let’s not pretend this was the whole picture.

FWIW, I’d put Heckingbottom on a par with Calderwood/Adams. The most devastating is how the club’s revival since 2014 onwards has been undone in less than a year. Makes me furious that we’ve got such imposters in our midsts.

[calumhibee1]

Fenlon, Calderwood, Butcher etc all dross but had at least 1 factor in they had not the biggest budgets and always inherited squads needing work etc.

This joke has came in with about 10 games to go was able to assess the squad under no major fears have what was a decent team of players.

He then has a full pre season a free arrival of a classy midfielder in Allan, a club with finances on the up all and everything in place to move on.

He has totally ***xed everything right up from a position that should have been strength to this joke.

How dare you sack Butcher and continue with this disgrace under the circumstances afforded. No excuses for this other than GROSS INCOMPETANCE. If it continues its GROSS INCOMPETANCE from those above.

Heckingbottom pound for Pound is the worst manager in years a disgrace.

If he had only been in charge this season then it would be hard to argue with that. Let’s keep in mind he took us to 5th place last season when top 6 looked off the cards. With that in mind, while he should now be sacked, if you’re wanting to consider how bad a manager he has been then that part of his spell also has to be considered. I wonder how much extra he gained us pound wise by not taking us to an 8th and sinking finish?

Nowhere near as bad as Butcher or Calderwood for me

[Baader]

Lennon lost it towards the end. The fact the club hired Heckingbottom as his replacement doesn’t change that.

A panicked appointment, after Lennon’s departure was mishandled. Three year contract, the bizarre dropping out of the apparent first choice (Appleton) and we are where we are.

The best days of Lennon’s tenure were some of the best I’ve seen as a Hibee. But let’s not pretend this was the whole picture.

FWIW, I’d put Heckingbottom on a par with Calderwood/Adams. The most devastating is how the club’s revival since 2014 onwards has been undone in less than a year. Makes me furious that we’ve got such imposters in our midsts.


Your last paragraph sums up the part that rankles with me as well. All the good work has been undone rapidly by a shocking appointment. We've regressed years because of this and it should not have been allowed to happen as we've seen it play out before.

[Smartie]

Lennon laid the foundations for this mess. We knew we were losing an entire midfield ( a very good midfield) during summer 2018, our succession planning was woefully inadequate. We've just continued that downward spiral.

[the tornadoe]

We were all told that hasty appointments were a thing of the past by Dempster. The board had implemented a structure where by a constant list of replacements was in place at any given time to replace staff who left the club. When Lennon left we took ages to appoint a new HC, our first choice for whatever reason fell through and I have no doubt Heckingbottom was appointed as a panic / hasty replacement for our first choice. Not sure our first choice would have been much better mind you but my point is Lennon leaving caught us out badly and that is down to the board and ultimately the CEO.

[Forza Fred]

Neil Lennon is several leagues above Hecky in management ability. It's a shame how it all ended, but it was a good era overall.

If Hecky stays, Lennon will certainly be ONE league above him next season.

[MWHIBBIES]

People actually wanted rid of Lennon for this. :faf:

Anyone would be better they said. :faf:

Who actually said that?

Lennon had a shocking record before going, he deserved it as much as Hecky.

[Captain Trips]

If he had only been in charge this season then it would be hard to argue with that. Let’s keep in mind he took us to 5th place last season when top 6 looked off the cards. With that in mind, while he should now be sacked, if you’re wanting to consider how bad a manager he has been then that part of his spell also has to be considered. I wonder how much extra he gained us pound wise by not taking us to an 8th and sinking finish?

Nowhere near as bad as Butcher or Calderwood for me

Butcher had a January window PH has had a full pre season to assess look and build with money a challenge. He has us 11th on -10 GD. I really do not see how this was even possible.

You mention ladt season well that's fine let's look at this one in full control and in full control of who went or stayed. Butcher is woeful started with pish added to pish finished pish. PH has not got such excuses. Disgrace of a performance from him.

[Halmyre Hibee]

Our CEO / board have made a mistake which we all do from time to time but it’s how we rectify the mistake and learn from it in the future that matters. So far the stubbornness in not dealing with this is tearing the heart out of our club. Our fans can be fickle but it’s gone beyond that. Hecky is a dead man walking and should have been away at the International break to allow us to regroup even under a temporary coach. We are Hibs we deserve better.

[calumhibee1]

Butcher had a January window PH has had a full pre season to assess look and build with money a challenge. He has us 11th on -10 GD. I really do not see how this was even possible.

You mention ladt season well that's fine let's look at this one in full control and in full control of who went or stayed. Butcher is woeful started with pish added to pish finished pish. PH has not got such excuses. Disgrace of a performance from him.

I don’t disagree with this season like I said. I don’t know why we wouldn’t look at last season as well though when we’re deciding how bad a manager he’s been. Both parts are relevant.

[we are hibs]

People actually wanted rid of Lennon for this. :faf:

Anyone would be better they said. :faf:


People wanted rid of lennon because he had 2 wins in 14 when he left. No one who wanted lennon away wanted him replaced by someone even worse. Dont try and rewrite history and claim people wanted rid of Lennon so heckingbottom could come in eh

[we are hibs]

I don’t disagree with this season like I said. I don’t know why we wouldn’t look at last season as well though when we’re deciding how bad a manager he’s been. Both parts are relevant.

Heckingbottom said last season is irrelevant when asked about his 1 win in 14 last week. So obviously he thinks his good run when he came in should be discounted too

[calumhibee1]

Heckingbottom said last season is irrelevant when asked about his 1 win in 14 last week. So obviously he thinks his good run when he came in should be discounted too

Nobody listens to PH except when it suits them do they :greengrin

Fair enough. I’d always consider what he done last season as part of his reign. Bearing that in mind, he’s still been an unsuccessful appointment but to me he’s definitely not the worst.

[mcfly]

Nobody listens to PH except when it suits them do they :greengrin

Fair enough. I’d always consider what he done last season as part of his reign. Bearing that in mind, he’s still been an unsuccessful appointment but to me he’s definitely not the worst.

Who cares discussing if he’s the worst or second worst that’s irrelevant.

He has assembled a team of absolute losers. No guts no fight no determination - nothing. Forget last year - he had better players to work with. Josh vela OMG hopeless

All the good work done by the prev 2 managers in instilling a belief and will to win has be undone by this man. Crowds will plummet and the silence from our board is worrying.

He is an appalling appt and it’s only gonna get worse.

There is No atmosphere at Easter road anymore.

Crowds are falling. Fans are angry - he is done as the manager and it’s just a matter of time.

An empty stadium may make a difference I don’t know - but surely 7k at hampden lets the board know.

They need to do their job, admit it hasn’t worked, pay him off and tell him to clear his desk on Monday

[calumhibee1]

Who cares discussing if he’s the worst or second worst that’s irrelevant.

He has assembled a team of absolute losers. No guts no fight no determination - nothing. Forget last year - he had better players to work with. Josh vela OMG hopeless

All the good work done by the prev 2 managers in instilling a belief and will to win has be undone by this man. Crowds will plummet and the silence from our board is worrying.

He is an appalling appt and it’s only gonna get worse.

There is No atmosphere at Easter road anymore.

Crowds are falling. Fans are angry - he is done as the manager and it’s just a matter of time.

An empty stadium may make a difference I don’t know - but surely 7k at hampden lets the board know.

They need to do their job, admit it hasn’t worked, pay him off and tell him to clear his desk on Monday

Who cares? It’s the whole point of this thread surely? :confused: plenty other threads for just slaughtering him on.

[mcfly]

Who cares? It’s the whole point of this thread surely? :confused: plenty other threads for just slaughtering him on.

Whatever mate whatever boring

[calumhibee1]

Whatever mate whatever boring

:faf:

I’m not sure what you were expecting from a thread discussing whether he’s our worst manager in years. Surely you expected a discussion as to whether he was the worst, second worst etc? :confused:

[blackpoolhibs]

People wanted rid of lennon because he had 2 wins in 14 when he left. No one who wanted lennon away wanted him replaced by someone even worse. Dont try and rewrite history and claim people wanted rid of Lennon so heckingbottom could come in eh

When you have a manager who's won you promotion and then taken us to the brink of our best finishing position in god knows how long, he should then be afforded a lot more time than some gave him.

Add in our best European run since the 70s, and having to replace the best midfield i've seen since the 70s too, then forgive me if i'm repeating myself, but those were the good times, they dont come round too often, but no, some dafty's wanted him replaced even when we were in that transition and still winning. :faf:

Now of course i dont know what went on between him and Dempster, and if it was gross breach of behaviour then she was in her right to get rid, but he had plenty in the tank in my opinion and would have made us better again, certainly better than this clown who's biggest claim to fame at Hibs is winning some games with Lennons players.

Give me Lennon the winner over secondbottom the winner.

[A Hi-Bee]

When you have a manager who's won you promotion and then taken us to the brink of our best finishing position in god knows how long, he should then be afforded a lot more time than some gave him.

Add in our best European run since the 70s, and having to replace the best midfield i've seen since the 70s too, then forgive me if i'm repeating myself, but those were the good times, they dont come round too often, but no, some dafty's wanted him replaced even when we were in that transition and still winning. :faf:

Now of course i dont know what went on between him and Dempster, and if it was gross breach of behaviour then she was in her right to get rid, but he had plenty in the tank in my opinion and would have made us better again, certainly better than this clown who's biggest claim to fame at Hibs is winning some games with Lennons players.

Give me Lennon the winner over secondbottom the winner.

We should have backed Lennon with the cash he wanted to take us to the next level, but we as ever closed the Biscuit tin very quickly and it all went to ***** after that. we are now paying for the maistakes of the past in the form of the board who as much as I can make out from afar are all just shuffling to make sure the keep their soft comfy seats at Easter Road. I dont like calling for a man to get the sack but sometimes it has to be done for the greater good. Just hope that we can find a replacement that fires up the support and the team as much as Lennon or Stubbs did.

[calumhibee1]

Quoted post deleted - no need to get personal

Why don’t you start that thread then? Then we can keep this thread on topic - the topic being whether he’s the worst manager we’ve had or not for the avoidance of doubt.

[Hibernia&Alba]

When you have a manager who's won you promotion and then taken us to the brink of our best finishing position in god knows how long, he should then be afforded a lot more time than some gave him.

Add in our best European run since the 70s, and having to replace the best midfield i've seen since the 70s too, then forgive me if i'm repeating myself, but those were the good times, they dont come round too often, but no, some dafty's wanted him replaced even when we were in that transition and still winning. :faf:

Now of course i dont know what went on between him and Dempster, and if it was gross breach of behaviour then she was in her right to get rid, but he had plenty in the tank in my opinion and would have made us better again, certainly better than this clown who's biggest claim to fame at Hibs is winning some games with Lennons players.

Give me Lennon the winner over secondbottom the winner.

Naughty. :greengrin

At least he isn't Rockbottom yet.....

[Gloucester Hibs]

It looks like he’s being given the full first round of league fixtures before we axe him isn’t it? FWIW up until the Killie away league game I was of this opinion too, performances since then have barely improved though and he should be long gone.

I think this guy could easily take us down and therefore worse than Butcher but I don’t want him around long enough to find out?!

[WhileTheChief..]

Lennon leaving came out of the blue, let’s not pretend otherwise.

I remember the threads on here well, disbelief was the first thoughts of most folks.

Prior to that weekend there were very few people asking for him to be sacked and there was absolutely no sign of that from the stands at ER.

[HibeeHibernian4]

When you have a manager who's won you promotion and then taken us to the brink of our best finishing position in god knows how long, he should then be afforded a lot more time than some gave him.

Add in our best European run since the 70s, and having to replace the best midfield i've seen since the 70s too, then forgive me if i'm repeating myself, but those were the good times, they dont come round too often, but no, some dafty's wanted him replaced even when we were in that transition and still winning. :faf:

Now of course i dont know what went on between him and Dempster, and if it was gross breach of behaviour then she was in her right to get rid, but he had plenty in the tank in my opinion and would have made us better again, certainly better than this clown who's biggest claim to fame at Hibs is winning some games with Lennons players.

Give me Lennon the winner over secondbottom the winner.

We weren't winning? We won 2 out of 14 games and he was taking us towards the relegation play-off spot.

[HibeeHibernian4]

We should have backed Lennon with the cash he wanted to take us to the next level, but we as ever closed the Biscuit tin very quickly and it all went to ***** after that. we are now paying for the maistakes of the past in the form of the board who as much as I can make out from afar are all just shuffling to make sure the keep their soft comfy seats at Easter Road. I dont like calling for a man to get the sack but sometimes it has to be done for the greater good. Just hope that we can find a replacement that fires up the support and the team as much as Lennon or Stubbs did.

Lennon had plenty of financial backing and made about three good signings in his time at Hibs (Marciano, Ambrose and Kamberi).

[blackpoolhibs]

We weren't winning? We won 2 out of 14 games and he was taking us towards the relegation play-off spot.

Have a look on here at the time when we were 2nd behind herts and still in Europe.


Its just funny. :faf:

And even when we were not winning, Lennon had given us some great times, he had plenty kudos in the bank, but there were posters here on his back when he was winning and still in Europe.

[Captain Trips]

Why don’t you start that thread then? Then we can keep this thread on topic - the topic being whether he’s the worst manager we’ve had or not for the avoidance of doubt.

No it isn't actually worst or not. I am stating pond for Pound he is the worst. There is no "or not". For me he is and again it isn't down to simply ratios if we're case I would have just said he is the worst manager ever and statistically he isn't.

So for me ratios, squad on arrival, money to spend. He has done the worst with tools provided.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Who cares what Heckingbottom's record is in comparison to any of our previous managers, all that matters is, is he doing what we need him to be doing and the answer is no he isnt. He has a team capable of getting in front in matches, but which then seems incapable of holding onto a lead, that fact seemed about to change on Saturday and then astonishingly we still managed to chuck away a game we could and should have been at least 3 - 0 up in before we conceded.

Nobody expects us to beat Celtic on Saturday, better Hibs teams with better managers than him have failed to do it at Hampden against worse Celtic teams. But we do expect him to beat Livvi on Wednesday and if we dont then only beating Celtic on Saturday should be able to save him ... if that doesnt happen then it should be cheerio Hecky because does anybody realistically expect him to get results in our next round of league fixtures, which if anything are tougher than this round has been given who we are due to play home and away.

[calumhibee1]

No it isn't actually worst or not. I am stating pond for Pound he is the worst. There is no "or not". For me he is and again it isn't down to simply ratios if we're case I would have just said he is the worst manager ever and statistically he isn't.

So for me ratios, squad on arrival, money to spend. He has done the worst with tools provided.

Ok, so you started a thread for you to state that he is. Nobody is then to discuss their own thoughts on the matter because you said he is and that’s that - not a .net fact but a Captain Trips fact if you will.

[Captain Trips]

Ok, so you started a thread for you to state that he is. Nobody is then to discuss their own thoughts on the matter because you said he is and that’s that - not a .net fact but a Captain Trips fact if you will.

No you can discuss absolutely but it is my opinion. You are free to discuss of course my POV is he is our worst manager in recent years all things I state considered.

[Captain Trips]

100% Right up there with the worst.

[hibsbollah]

No you can discuss absolutely but it is my opinion. You are free to discuss of course my POV is he is our worst manager in recent years all things I state considered.

Both these sentences are a total ****ing mess. I'm not wanting to play the English teacher here but just try to make a basic effort to be understandable.

[Captain Trips]

Both these sentences are a total ****ing mess. I'm not wanting to play the English teacher here but just try to make a basic effort to be understandable.

Ignore it then it was not aimed at you. Hark at Dickens there.

[hibsbollah]

Ignore it then it was not aimed at you.

It doesn't matter who it was aimed at. If you put it on the board you need to make sure it makes some sort of sense.

[Captain Trips]

It doesn't matter who it was aimed at. If you put it on the board you need to make sure it makes some sort of sense.

It does to me and frankly I don't give a toss if you understand it or not. I'm sure you can go through plenty of threads and run your critical eyes over them. Give them gold stars or whatever you fancy.

Was the paragraph above clear enough?

[Squirrel 1875]

People actually wanted rid of Lennon for this. :faf:

Anyone would be better they said. :faf:

So true.

[WestCoastHibby]

Focus should be off PH now as he has shot his bolt and is a lost cause. Pressure has to be put on LD and her team as they are turning a blind eye to our crisis.

Absolutely: those in the leather swivel seats get away with it hiding in plain sight

[Squirrel 1875]

OP makes a valid point. Heckingbottom inherited a squad which should be challenging for Europe, with finances to improve the squad. Not many of our previous managers have joined us in such a position. He did, and look where he has got us. For me, worst manager we have ever had.

[The 90+2]

Both these sentences are a total ****ing mess. I'm not wanting to play the English teacher here but just try to make a basic effort to be understandable.

You’re only ripping the structure of the sentences because you disagree with CTs general opinion imo.

[Captain Trips]

You’re only ripping the structure of the sentences because you disagree with CTs general opinion imo.

I'm not worried 90±2, it really is irrelevant to the thread anyway if the particular response I made is understood or not.

[The 90+2]

I'm not worried 90±2, it really is irrelevant to the thread anyway if the particular response I made is understood or not.

It was perfectly understandable.

[Crab apple]

He's certainly taken the club backwards from where it has been under the previous two managers and with a bigger transfer budget. Unfortunately I think he'll be here until Xmas. The longer he stays the more that questions should start to be asked of our CEO.

[The Modfather]

When you have a manager who's won you promotion and then taken us to the brink of our best finishing position in god knows how long, he should then be afforded a lot more time than some gave him.

Add in our best European run since the 70s, and having to replace the best midfield i've seen since the 70s too, then forgive me if i'm repeating myself, but those were the good times, they dont come round too often, but no, some dafty's wanted him replaced even when we were in that transition and still winning. :faf:

Now of course i dont know what went on between him and Dempster, and if it was gross breach of behaviour then she was in her right to get rid, but he had plenty in the tank in my opinion and would have made us better again, certainly better than this clown who's biggest claim to fame at Hibs is winning some games with Lennons players.

Give me Lennon the winner over secondbottom the winner.

Lennon left an absolute shambles of a squad for a new manager. That the new manager was Heckingbottom and he has managed to make a poor hand considerably worse, doesn’t change the state Lennon left us in.

Lennon was good with the midfield he was lucky to inherit. I would say he made a good midfield under Stubbs into an excellent midfield. The squad he left however was bereft of overall quality and short of both quality and quantity in a number of positions.

We were in freefall under Lennon with selection bingo most weeks. He had credit in the bank, but not that much left IMO after various outbursts (Jim Duffy spat, Rugby Park sending off), threats to quit, calling out the players and specifically Kamberi every week but never acknowledging any his own mistakes. As well the 2 in 14 run he was on. No one expected it to come to an end the way it did, but if whatever happened hadn’t happened he was getting into sackable territory for what was happening on the field anyway IMO.

[mcfly]

Thing is with Heckingbottom is he won’t sell season tickets.

His style of football is awful
He has NO eye for a player

We will be back to £7-8k crowds max and that fear is what should make the board act

[Danderhall Hibs]

Lennon left an absolute shambles of a squad for a new manager. That the new manager was Heckingbottom and he has managed to make a poor hand considerably worse, doesn’t change the state Lennon left us in.

Lennon was good with the midfield he was lucky to inherit. I would say he made a good midfield under Stubbs into an excellent midfield. The squad he left however was bereft of overall quality and short of both quality and quantity in a number of positions.

We were in freefall under Lennon with selection bingo most weeks. He had credit in the bank, but not that much left IMO after various outbursts (Jim Duffy spat, Rugby Park sending off), threats to quit, calling out the players and specifically Kamberi every week but never acknowledging any his own mistakes. As well the 2 in 14 run he was on. No one expected it to come to an end the way it did, but if whatever happened hadn’t happened he was getting into sackable territory for what was happening on the field anyway IMO.

:agree: where we’re we when he left the club? Where are we now? Pretty similar positions if I recall correctly.

[Captain Trips]

Lennon left an absolute shambles of a squad for a new manager. That the new manager was Heckingbottom and he has managed to make a poor hand considerably worse, doesn’t change the state Lennon left us in.

Lennon was good with the midfield he was lucky to inherit. I would say he made a good midfield under Stubbs into an excellent midfield. The squad he left however was bereft of overall quality and short of both quality and quantity in a number of positions.

We were in freefall under Lennon with selection bingo most weeks. He had credit in the bank, but not that much left IMO after various outbursts (Jim Duffy spat, Rugby Park sending off), threats to quit, calling out the players and specifically Kamberi every week but never acknowledging any his own mistakes. As well the 2 in 14 run he was on. No one expected it to come to an end the way it did, but if whatever happened hadn’t happened he was getting into sackable territory for what was happening on the field anyway IMO.

I disagree about squad he left I think it was more than decent and that is where we will differ on the job on Heckingbottom. Shambles all of Heckingbottoms making.

[blackpoolhibs]

Lennon apparently left us in a shambles, my idea of a shambles is a relegation fight.

Lennon had credit in the bank, and had had us playing well and qualifying for Europe, this clown will take us down and has no credit at all in the bank, and filled the squad with utter dross.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Lennon apparently left us in a shambles, my idea of a shambles is a relegation fight.

Lennon had credit in the bank, and had had us playing well and qualifying for Europe, this clown will take us down and has no credit at all in the bank, and filled the squad with utter dross.

Where were we when he left? I thought we were certainties for the bottom 6 and sliding?

[Fuzzywuzzy]

What were his post match comments? Heard something in the radio this morning but had moist kids in the car. Thought I caught something along the lines of "this isn't about me"

[Yorkshire HFC]

Fenlon, Calderwood, Butcher etc all dross but had at least 1 factor in they had not the biggest budgets and always inherited squads needing work etc.

Heckingbottom pound for Pound is the worst manager in years a disgrace.

Out of interest, do you think you're better at your job than Heckingbottom is at his?

[Captain Trips]

Out of interest, do you think you're better at your job than Heckingbottom is at his?

Yes, but that is not exactly hard. Are you better at yours? I'm the Jurgen Klopp of my job.

[Yorkshire HFC]

Yes, but that is not exactly hard. Are you better at yours? I'm the Jurgen Klopp of my job.

You must be good then.

[Captain Trips]

You must be good then.

Very competent my recent appraisal was expectations achieved. Are you better at your job than Heckingbottom is at his?

[Allant1981]

Very competent my recent appraisal was expectations achieved. Are you better at your job than Heckingbottom is at his?

Are you only a quarter of the way through your year or did you achieve the expectations after a full year

[The 90+2]

Where were we when he left? I thought we were certainties for the bottom 6 and sliding?

Certainties for bottom 6 but a lot, lot safer than we are now. It was time for him to leave also, no question but **** me what an alternative we’ve taken.

The contracts given to the players we have brought in is going to take a couple of years to recover from and cost the club money, that’s for sure. All joy has been taken out of it now and the feel good factor is a distant memory.

[The 90+2]

Are you only a quarter of the way through your year or did you achieve the expectations after a full year

Hecky is three quarters through his first year. The end result looks complete carnage.

[Captain Trips]

Are you only a quarter of the way through your year or did you achieve the expectations after a full year

No a good few years into it year on year. No worries here. How about you? Are you better at your job than Heckingbottom?


Where I am the Jurgen Klopp, Heckingbottom is the Terry Butcher.

Sorry I'm getting that last bit wrong Terry Butcher is the Heckingbottom of managers.

[Andy74]

Certainties for bottom 6 but a lot, lot safer than we are now. It was time for him to leave also, no question but **** me what an alternative we’ve taken.

The contracts given to the players we have brought in is going to take a couple of years to recover from and cost the club money, that’s for sure. All joy has been taken out of it now and the feel good factor is a distant memory.

If we think Lennon deserved to leave then we might as well pack up now.

We are never, ever, going to get any manager who doesn’t have a bad spell.

If they are all going to get emptied for it then we will just be doing this constantly.

[Speedway]

If we think Lennon deserved to leave then we might as well pack up now.

We are never, ever, going to get any manager who doesn’t have a bad spell.

If they are all going to get emptied for it then we will just be doing this constantly.

Also, when’s the last time a manager departed Hibs only to beat Lazio in the Europa league with his new team?

We don’t know what we’re doing.

[The 90+2]

If we think Lennon deserved to leave then we might as well pack up now.

We are never, ever, going to get any manager who doesn’t have a bad spell.

If they are all going to get emptied for it then we will just be doing this constantly.

I think it was best all round he left, he certainly didn’t have the motivation he had at the beginning of the job or even the second season and it was time for a thresh start.

[The 90+2]

Also, when’s the last time a manager departed Hibs only to beat Lazio in the Europa league with his new team?

We don’t know what we’re doing.

Mowbray took his side to beat Man City and Spurs if that counts?

[Allant1981]

No a good few years into it year on year. No worries here. How about you? Are you better at your job than Heckingbottom?


Where I am the Jurgen Klopp, Heckingbottom is the Terry Butcher.

Sorry I'm getting that last bit wrong Terry Butcher is the Heckingbottom of managers.

So you are only achieving expectations after a few years and not exceeding them, tut tut!! You cant be that good at your job. In all seriousness I think he has been told top 6 this season, which we arent a million miles away from despite playing absolute horse s!!t for weeks, he would probably have been told to get a decent cup run, he has ticked that box also for the league cup. Doesnt mean we as fans have to like it and he is quite rightly getting it tight but until the board decide he is no longer the man for the job then the team should get backed

[blackpoolhibs]

Lennon was getting dogs abuse from some on here, when we were winning. :faf:

Now i don't know what went on with him and Dempster, but it was enough to see him part ways with us, but not enough for her to get rid of his picture off her desk.

When you have given the club its best season in years, when you have given the club its best European run in years, you should have some credit in the bank if things are going badly.

That was not given by some, yet the same ones have given this clown excuse after excuse even though we are worse than we ever were under Lennon.:confused:

We had the good times under Lennon, but as i said at the time, you should enjoy them as they dont always last, but Lennon in my opinion had got us playing well, had got us terrific result, and deserved the chance to try again.

His falling out with Dempster put paid to that, and we now see the consequences. :rolleyes:

[Box 17]

Lennon apparently left us in a shambles, my idea of a shambles is a relegation fight.

Lennon had credit in the bank, and had had us playing well and qualifying for Europe, this clown will take us down and has no credit at all in the bank, and filled the squad with utter dross.

To be fair to Hecky he wasn't helped by losing 2 decent players in Omeonga and McNulty. That's been our problem, bringing in quantity over quality.

Not sure if that is all to do with the manager and more a consequence of our financial position.

[Captain Trips]

So you are only achieving expectations after a few years and not exceeding them, tut tut!! You cant be that good at your job. In all seriousness I think he has been told top 6 this season, which we arent a million miles away from despite playing absolute horse s!!t for weeks, he would probably have been told to get a decent cup run, he has ticked that box also for the league cup. Doesnt mean we as fans have to like it and he is quite rightly getting it tight but until the board decide he is no longer the man for the job then the team should get backed

Not allowed exceeding as don't want to cause a fuss.

[Allant1981]

Not allowed exceeding as don't want to cause a fuss.

Aye ok

[Captain Trips]

So you are only achieving expectations after a few years and not exceeding them, tut tut!! You cant be that good at your job. In all seriousness I think he has been told top 6 this season, which we arent a million miles away from despite playing absolute horse s!!t for weeks, he would probably have been told to get a decent cup run, he has ticked that box also for the league cup. Doesnt mean we as fans have to like it and he is quite rightly getting it tight but until the board decide he is no longer the man for the job then the team should get backed

Told top 6? I think told Europe. The man is pish at being a manager of Hibs.

[Captain Trips]

Aye ok

Is the the route you are going down as Heckingbottom is utter push? You know it don't you.

[Allant1981]

Told top 6? I think told Europe. The man is pish at being a manager of Hibs.

Quite possibly but as none of us are employed by the club then we wont know, think we agree it's been pish though and gets sorted soon

[Captain Trips]

Quite possibly but as none of us are employed by the club then we wont know, think we agree it's been pish though and gets sorted soon

Well if told 6th is OK they need punted as well. IMO of course.

[MacGruber]

Lennon was getting dogs abuse from some on here, when we were winning. :faf:

Now i don't know what went on with him and Dempster, but it was enough to see him part ways with us, but not enough for her to get rid of his picture off her desk.

When you have given the club its best season in years, when you have given the club its best European run in years, you should have some credit in the bank if things are going badly.

That was not given by some, yet the same ones have given this clown excuse after excuse even though we are worse than we ever were under Lennon.:confused:

We had the good times under Lennon, but as i said at the time, you should enjoy them as they dont always last, but Lennon in my opinion had got us playing well, had got us terrific result, and deserved the chance to try again.

His falling out with Dempster put paid to that, and we now see the consequences. :rolleyes:


Not for me. Lennon's time was up, was right time for him to leave. Not that Lennon wasn't a bad manager for us or that we weren't lucky to have him, he just didn't seem interested anymore. He's found a new level of motivation at Celtic. Maybe Hibs just never matched his ambition. However it came about it was good whilst it lasted but it was never going to last long.

No doubt Heckingbottom has taken us backwards at an alarming rate. He needs emptied too - doubt anyone ia left arguing to the contrary

[MacGruber]

Lennon apparently left us in a shambles, my idea of a shambles is a relegation fight.

Lennon had credit in the bank, and had had us playing well and qualifying for Europe, this clown will take us down and has no credit at all in the bank, and filled the squad with utter dross.

Yeah agreed. Lennon would likely have finished bottom 6 last year but your point still stands

[mcfly]

Yeah agreed. Lennon would likely have finished bottom 6 last year but your point still stands

Possibly but you don’t get the Celtic job twice if you are a rubbish manager.

Lennon raised our clubs profile, he put fight into the team and set high standards.

Would he have wasted the budget on this rubbish? I doubt it.

Heckingbottom out

[Betty Boop]

[QUOTE=hibsbollah;5976315]It doesn't matter who it was aimed at. If you put it on the board you need to make sure it makes some sort of sense.[/QUOTE

Not like you to be so picky. Grumpy ! :greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

Not for me. Lennon's time was up, was right time for him to leave. Not that Lennon wasn't a bad manager for us or that we weren't lucky to have him, he just didn't seem interested anymore. He's found a new level of motivation at Celtic. Maybe Hibs just never matched his ambition. However it came about it was good whilst it lasted but it was never going to last long.

No doubt Heckingbottom has taken us backwards at an alarming rate. He needs emptied too - doubt anyone ia left arguing to the contrary

Lennon is certainly passionate, and he says things he probably shouldn't at inappropriate times, maybe even spits his dummy out occasionally too?

I don't know what went on when he left, but it was clear he'd fallen out with Dempster.

As a manager i'd have kept him, as i believe he could have turned things round, maybe not as bad as this clown has turned things around though? :wink:

None of us know what really went on though, and perhaps that possibility was never on? :confused:

[cmcd]

In my 70 years I have had to put up with the likes of Bertie Auld . Pat Stanton (hero) John Blackley (hero) Jim Duffy. Sauzee (hero) John Lambie .etc etc. A few of these guys were wonderful players but hopeless managers .I'm sure there have been more but my memory is not what it used to be . You never know PH may come good 😜

[Captain Trips]

[QUOTE=hibsbollah;5976315]It doesn't matter who it was aimed at. If you put it on the board you need to make sure it makes some sort of sense.[/QUOTE

Not like you to be so picky. Grumpy ! :greengrin

A long and exciting day for them maybe had a can of Barbican on the way to the match. Easy done.

[Crab apple]

To be fair to Hecky he wasn't helped by losing 2 decent players in Omeonga and McNulty. That's been our problem, bringing in quantity over quality.

Not sure if that is all to do with the manager and more a consequence of our financial position.

I think that’s a fair question but our CEO has consistently stated that PH was given our largest ever transfer budget. If true then I doubt any of our previous managers would have ended up with the poor squad PH has put together.

[CathroMustStay]

No one will ever be worse than Butcher.

[Since452]

I don't think the impact of not having Gray and McGregor avaliable can be overlooked. We're lacking leaders on the park and they're two of the best.

[bigwheel]

I don't think the impact of not having Gray and McGregor avaliable can be overlooked. We're lacking leaders on the park and they're two of the best.

I don’t think McGregor wouldn’t get in the side if fit ...on the bench. A fit Gray is a miss - but tbh I’m not sure we will ever see Gray play 30+ games in a season for us again

That said. We are lacking leaders. I agree with that

[Captain Trips]

No one will ever be worse than Butcher.

Heckingbottom I would say is the poor man's Butcher however as he had a considerable bigger budget than Butcher he is the rich man's Terry Butcher.

[Speedway]

Not for me. Lennon's time was up, was right time for him to leave. Not that Lennon wasn't a bad manager for us or that we weren't lucky to have him, he just didn't seem interested anymore. He's found a new level of motivation at Celtic. Maybe Hibs just never matched his ambition. However it came about it was good whilst it lasted but it was never going to last long.

No doubt Heckingbottom has taken us backwards at an alarming rate. He needs emptied too - doubt anyone ia left arguing to the contrary

Lennon's ambitions may have been undeliverable for Hibs and maybe they weren't but either way, that's definitely where his frustrations were coming from.