The generic Hearts thread

[04Sauzee]

Have Hearts updated their fans on season ticket sales? They used to announce sales every other day when they were outselling Hibs

[HFC93]

Hearts won't go into administration, their fans would ultimately bail them out.

Through FoH, one way or another they would be bailed out, whether that included Budge leaving immediately etc I don't know but there is no way they will go into admin.

I would be interested in knowing how many folk are contributing to FOH. At it's peak it was around 8,000 I think, but does anyone know what the current number is?

[Keith_M]

Have Hearts updated their fans on season ticket sales? They used to announce sales every other day when they were outselling Hibs


Anybody that wants to buy a Season Ticket in their 'Platinum' sections will have to pay £450... to watch them play Championship teams.

That's eighteen home games, none of which are Class A, working out an average price of £25 per game (if they actually go to every game)

[Bostonhibby]

Anybody that wants to buy a Season Ticket in their 'Platinum' sections will have to pay £450... to watch them play Championship teams.

That's eighteen home games, none of which are Class A, working out an average price of £25 per game (if they actually go to every game)Platinum?

I thought they'd bought a load of recycled steel from a scrap dealer in Bolton?



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[Keith_M]

Platinum?

I thought they'd bought a load of recycled steel from a scrap dealer in Bolton?




Come on, this is Hearts we're talking about. It wouldn't be like them to exaggerate, would it?


:dunno:




This is the seating diagram and basically any seats in the purple sections will cost £450.... to watch them play Alloa, Arbroath, Ayr United, etc


https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/uploads/tinymce/TNMap.png

[Waxy]

When hearts are relegated on Monday, Arbroath will be above them in the league already on alphabetical order. 2nd best maroon team in Scotland.

[04Sauzee]

Come on, this is Hearts we're talking about. It wouldn't be like them to exaggerate, would it?


:dunno:




This is the seating diagram and basically any seats in the purple sections will cost £450.... to watch them play Alloa, Arbroath, Ayr United, etc


https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/uploads/tinymce/TNMap.png

That's a fair bit of purple seats

[Glory Lurker]

When hearts are relegated on Monday, Arbroath will be above them in the league already on alphabetical order. 2nd best maroon team in Scotland.

Stenhousemuir are raging at that comment!

[jacomo]

Does this not depend upon the stance our FM takes regarding bail-outs/handouts/helping hands from Westminster and it's bodies?

Just asking because Scottish football must be low on their priorities? Happy to be educated :greengrin


Directive from UK government is that banks and financial institutions should take a sympathetic view on any business in financial difficulties - this will hold true for HMRC as well.

I said weeks ago that one of the risks of this current situation is that badly run businesses will use Covid 19 as an excuse to cover their own failings. Hearts are largely responsible for their own problems, but I sill think that HMRC won’t want to do anything that could be viewed as harming a football club during this crisis.

[brog]

April/May/June is that time of the year when football clubs have their highest cash balances of the year (due to season ticket sales), and this is the sole reason why HMFC aren't heading to Administration any time in the next 3 months. They'll likely be bringing in close to £1m every fortnight for the next 8 weeks. If the anonymous donor really has stopped contributing then what is happening now is a tasteless attempt by HMFC to reposition their spending levels in preparation for the new season, likely to be in the Championship. They really do need a clear out to remove the high earners and excessive costs, and what better time to do it than under cover of a worldwide corona virus crisis.

The fun and games begin at the start of the new season when they find, once again, that they've spent most of their advance season ticket money to see them through to the end of the current season.


I think you're way over estimating their income here. £4m =16k seasons at £250 a time. They'll be lucky to get half of that number & I would expect quite a few to be on an instalment plan. They would bite your hand off for £2m over the next 2 or 3 months.

[JohnMcM]

Directive from UK government is that banks and financial institutions should take a sympathetic view on any business in financial difficulties - this will hold true for HMRC as well.

I said weeks ago that one of the risks of this current situation is that badly run businesses will use Covid 19 as an excuse to cover their own failings. Hearts are largely responsible for their own problems, but I sill think that HMRC won’t want to do anything that could be viewed as harming a football club during this crisis.

That makes sense to me. Thanks. I'm fairly ignorant of things fiscal and financial. :greengrin

[brog]

Directive from UK government is that banks and financial institutions should take a sympathetic view on any business in financial difficulties - this will hold true for HMRC as well.

I said weeks ago that one of the risks of this current situation is that badly run businesses will use Covid 19 as an excuse to cover their own failings. Hearts are largely responsible for their own problems, but I sill think that HMRC won’t want to do anything that could be viewed as harming a football club during this crisis.

There's a big gap between concept & reality however. Last I saw, a few days ago, it was a tiny % of those who had expressed an interest who had received a loan. Banks were also looking for personal guarantees, ie the loanee absorbs the risk. I can't see Budge doing that.

[Del Boy]

When hearts are relegated on Monday, Arbroath will be above them in the league already on alphabetical order. 2nd best maroon team in Scotland.

Maybe missed it, but why Monday?

[jacomo]

There's a big gap between concept & reality however. Last I saw, a few days ago, it was a tiny % of those who had expressed an interest who had received a loan. Banks were also looking for personal guarantees, ie the loanee absorbs the risk. I can't see Budge doing that.


I take your point, but i was talking about UK government mainly... I think HMRC’s previous hard ball stance has gone for now, unless they have very solid evidence that a company is deliberately defrauding the Treasury.

[dchibs]

Anybody that wants to buy a Season Ticket in their 'Platinum' sections will have to pay £450... to watch them play Championship teams.

That's eighteen home games, none of which are Class A, working out an average price of £25 per game (if they actually go to every game)

How much do they charge for the rusty part of their unfinished stand?

[tamig]

I would be interested in knowing how many folk are contributing to FOH. At it's peak it was around 8,000 I think, but does anyone know what the current number is?

They are holding up well and think there are still in excess of 7000 contributors.

[FilipinoHibs]

Maybe missed it, but why Monday?

SPFL board meeting.

[Squealing pig]

I hope this documentary getting filmed is key work because I’ve ran out of things to watch and can’t wait for it

[G B Young]

I've kind of lost track of the wages saga at Hearts. Why are they imposing a take it or leave it wage cut instead of coming to a deferral agreement like Hibs seemed to do without much fuss?

[HoboHarry]

I've kind of lost track of the wages saga at Hearts. Why are they imposing a take it or leave it wage cut instead of coming to a deferral agreement like Hibs seemed to do without much fuss?
Perhaps they don't have the cash to pay the bill in full when it falls due?

[Future17]

I've kind of lost track of the wages saga at Hearts. Why are they imposing a take it or leave it wage cut instead of coming to a deferral agreement like Hibs seemed to do without much fuss?

Budge said in her recent statement that she wasn't prepared to allow the creation of an unknown amount of debt. The subtext was that they either couldn't afford it to pay it in future or just don't want to have to when they consider there's an easier way out.

[cocteautwin]

I think you're way over estimating their income here. £4m =16k seasons at £250 a time. They'll be lucky to get half of that number & I would expect quite a few to be on an instalment plan. They would bite your hand off for £2m over the next 2 or 3 months.

The past few years they've taken in approx £5m in season ticket sales before 30 June (as per their accounts) so they must be bringing it in at a rate of around £0.5m a week. The instalment plans aren't financed by the clubs - the clubs get most of the season ticket price up front and the finance company collects the instalments. Their season ticket sales aren't going to be much lower than previous years, even if we are in the midst of a huge economic crisis.

There's little chance HMFC will be having a cash flow problem in the next 2-3 months but if they keep the spending rate at the same as previous 24 months they are going to hit a wall sometime around September. I think this is why Budge is pushing to have most of the highly paid team of duds removed from the club. They need to reposition the club for the championship, and even if by some miracle they push through a reorganisation they'll still want to get most of their players off the books as they've been garbage. It's pathetic they are using the virus as an excuse for their financial troubles when it should be widely known that they are in difficulty mostly because of owner incompetence.

[cocteautwin]

Budge said in her recent statement that she wasn't prepared to allow the creation of an unknown amount of debt. The subtext was that they either couldn't afford it to pay it in future or just don't want to have to when they consider there's an easier way out.

And thanks to the coronavirus they have an easier way out by blaming something else rather than their own incompetence.

[Barney McGrew]

I've kind of lost track of the wages saga at Hearts. Why are they imposing a take it or leave it wage cut instead of coming to a deferral agreement like Hibs seemed to do without much fuss?

It’s a wage cut and not a deferment they’re trying to put in place. The issue Hertz have is that most of their ‘name’ players generally joined them because they were getting more money at Tynecastle. Footballers are not known for their loyalty at the best of times and all they’ll be looking for is their money, especially the type of player they’ve signed.

If I’m one of those players looking at what other clubs are doing where wages are deferred and I know I’ll still get them somewhere down the line, I’m unlikely to voluntarily take a 50% cut where I lose out. I’d also be pretty pissed off that the owner was publicly hanging me out to dry while the recruitment department was simultaneously sending out emails to other agents saying there was money to spend on new players. Add in the fact they’ve got previous for shafting creditors, and that they’re clearly suffering cash flow problems then there’s no danger I’d be accepting anything especially where football debt is prioritised and well covered by the authorities.

Someone made a point on their season ticket numbers, and from what I have heard they are not very good at all - they’d expected that would bail them out for a bit but they’re struggling to shift them which has put even more pressure on the cash flow. Given that’s their only source of income right now and for the foreseeable future, and that they’re still not getting any prize money for last season due to the fannying about that them and Rangers are doing, it all adds up to a pretty precarious position. While they might not have massive debts (yet), there’s no way they have enough money to meet the payroll these next few months coming, hence why Budge is scrambling around in last chance saloon threatening clause 12.

Its all as they say, pleasing. :cb

[Caversham Green]

It’s a wage cut and not a deferment they’re trying to put in place. The issue Hertz have is that most of their ‘name’ players generally joined them because they were getting more money at Tynecastle. Footballers are not known for their loyalty at the best of times and all they’ll be looking for is their money, especially the type of player they’ve signed.

If I’m one of those players looking at what other clubs are doing where wages are deferred and I know I’ll still get them somewhere down the line, I’m unlikely to voluntarily take a 50% cut where I lose out. I’d also be pretty pissed off that the owner was publicly hanging me out to dry while the recruitment department was simultaneously sending out emails to other agents saying there was money to spend on new players. Add in the fact they’ve got previous for shafting creditors, and that they’re clearly suffering cash flow problems then there’s no danger I’d be accepting anything especially where football debt is prioritised and well covered by the authorities.

Someone made a point on their season ticket numbers, and from what I have heard they are not very good at all - they’d expected that would bail them out for a bit but they’re struggling to shift them which has put even more pressure on the cash flow. Given that’s their only source of income right now and for the foreseeable future, and that they’re still not getting any prize money for last season due to the fannying about that them and Rangers are doing, it all adds up to a pretty precarious position. While they might not have massive debts (yet), there’s no way they have enough money to meet the payroll these next few months coming, hence why Budge is scrambling around in last chance saloon threatening clause 12.

Its all as they say, pleasing. :cb

Their high basic/low bonus model won't be helping either. Hibs and Aberdeen will have saved the bonuses they would have paid if the season had continued as normal and the deferral debt will be lower than HoMFC would have incurred if they had gone down the deferral route.

Players like Boyce signed for them on the basis of a high basic wage in comparison with Aberdeen, but he would almost certainly have earned more through bonuses while the season was ongoing. He's now going to lose at least a percentage of that high basic wage while Aberdeen's players will be paid in full eventually. He must be kicking himself (or images of his agent).

[Geo_1875]

Why all this talk of administration? Surely they can just declare self-sufficiency like they did last time.

[Sammy7nil]

I hope this documentary getting filmed is key work because I’ve ran out of things to watch and can’t wait for it


Their high basic/low bonus model won't be helping either. Hibs and Aberdeen will have saved the bonuses they would have paid if the season had continued as normal and the deferral debt will be lower than HoMFC would have incurred if they had gone down the deferral route.

Players like Boyce signed for them on the basis of a high basic wage in comparison with Aberdeen, but he would almost certainly have earned more through bonuses while the season was ongoing. He's now going to lose at least a percentage of that high basic wage while Aberdeen's players will be paid in full eventually. He must be kicking himself (or images of his agent).

Just had a thought I wonder if making the top six attracts a player bonus sure it will so Hibs dropping place may not be a disaster for our board. No extra gate money as no games played so it may result in a bigger loss to be sixth?

Hibs will eventually agree a wage decrease with the players and Hearts will shout loudly they did the right thing first. Unfortunately they did not they jumped the gun and tried to bully players instead of considering their family needs and working with them for the benefit of them and the club.

[brog]

The past few years they've taken in approx £5m in season ticket sales before 30 June (as per their accounts) so they must be bringing it in at a rate of around £0.5m a week. The instalment plans aren't financed by the clubs - the clubs get most of the season ticket price up front and the finance company collects the instalments. Their season ticket sales aren't going to be much lower than previous years, even if we are in the midst of a huge economic crisis.

There's little chance HMFC will be having a cash flow problem in the next 2-3 months but if they keep the spending rate at the same as previous 24 months they are going to hit a wall sometime around September. I think this is why Budge is pushing to have most of the highly paid team of duds removed from the club. They need to reposition the club for the championship, and even if by some miracle they push through a reorganisation they'll still want to get most of their players off the books as they've been garbage. It's pathetic they are using the virus as an excuse for their financial troubles when it should be widely known that they are in difficulty mostly because of owner incompetence.

I haven't seen their a/cs & i appreciate you're a knowledgeable poster but im struggling to get my head round this. £5m = 20k seasons @£250 or over 16k at £300, all before end June? Do their a/cs actually identify season ticket revenue separately or are your numbers all revenue?

[Peevemor]

The past few years they've taken in approx £5m in season ticket sales before 30 June (as per their accounts) so they must be bringing it in at a rate of around £0.5m a week.

I'd be surprised if they give as detailed à breakdown.

ST sales up to June 2019, will also include July & August 2018.

[Caversham Green]

I haven't seen their a/cs & i appreciate you're a knowledgeable poster but im struggling to get my head round this. £5m = 20k seasons @£250 or over 16k at £300, all before end June? Do their a/cs actually identify season ticket revenue separately or are your numbers all revenue?

Season ticket money sold before 30 June for the following season is recorded in the Balance Sheet as deferred income. HoMFC's deferred income was £5.199m. It's possible there was other income received in advance included but the bulk of it would be season ticket money.

By comparison Hibs deferred income and accruals was £5.781m, but HoMFC showed accruals of ££1.048m separately so the true comparison was £5.781 vs £6.247.

[H18 SFR]

Their high basic/low bonus model won't be helping either. Hibs and Aberdeen will have saved the bonuses they would have paid if the season had continued as normal and the deferral debt will be lower than HoMFC would have incurred if they had gone down the deferral route.

Players like Boyce signed for them on the basis of a high basic wage in comparison with Aberdeen, but he would almost certainly have earned more through bonuses while the season was ongoing. He's now going to lose at least a percentage of that high basic wage while Aberdeen's players will be paid in full eventually. He must be kicking himself (or images of his agent).

I can see us paying/deferring an average of the bonus they will have missed out on. Just a hunch.

[greenginger]

I'd be surprised if they give as detailed à breakdown.

ST sales up to June 2019, will also include July & August 2018.

Their accounts to June 2019 show deferred income as £ 5.2 million and I’ve always taken that to be mostly season ticket sales. Some might be pre payments for other forms of sponsorship.

unfortunately for them , they only had £ 600 k in the bank to show for it at the end of their financial year.

[Keith_M]

I think any talk of them going into Admin is wishful thinking.

They still have regular FoffH money coming in and will now be able to use part of next Season's ST money to help see them through till the end of this season (as is the norm for them).

I think the main effect of missing four home games is that it'll be even longer till they finish building their new stand.

[Caversham Green]

I can see us paying/deferring an average of the bonus they will have missed out on. Just a hunch.

I think it probably depends on how things develop. If finances allow I could see the club paying a general bonus when the deferred wages are settled, but they'll be walking a fine line between keeping the players happy and keeping the club afloat.

[Greenworld]

Their accounts to June 2019 show deferred income as £ 5.2 million and I’ve always taken that to be mostly season ticket sales. Some might be pre payments for other forms of sponsorship.

unfortunately for them , they only had £ 600 k in the bank to show for it at the end of their financial year.Thats the big one 600k in the bank and what other bills fall due in the month / next month apart from wages.
The last i saw they had moved 1000 season tickets there's been nothing since . As pointed out FOC contributions are holding up so credit has to be given to their fans.
The players that have not agreed to a cut was rumored to be about 20 with the pfa.
Its very messy and seem to the only club in the spfl leagues openly fighting with their players . This clause allowing to not pay the players is a srange one if implemented does thevplayer become a free agent ?

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[Barney McGrew]

The last i saw they had moved 1000 season tickets there's been nothing since

Less than 1500 was the number I was told at the end of last week.

If that’s accurate - and I’ve no reason to doubt it is given the source - then unless they start selling at a serious rate over the next month then they’re really in the deep stuff.

[H18 SFR]

Less than 1500 was the number I was told at the end of last week.

If that’s accurate - and I’ve no reason to doubt it is given the source - then unless they start selling at a serious rate over the next month then they’re really in the deep stuff.

I still think that if it comes out that they’re genuinely in the brown stuff there will be a flurry of FoH donations and season tickets bought.

They’re clearly financially wounded, but thoughts of their demise or administration etc are far fetched.

[Greenworld]

Less than 1500 was the number I was told at the end of last week.

If that’s accurate - and I’ve no reason to doubt it is given the source - then unless they start selling at a serious rate over the next month then they’re really in the deep stuff.Yup this is a defining moment for hearts and Anne Budge

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[malcolm]

Thats the big one 600k in the bank and what other bills fall due in the month / next month apart from wages.
The last i saw they had moved 1000 season tickets there's been nothing since . As pointed out FOC contributions are holding up so credit has to be given to their fans.
The players that have not agreed to a cut was rumored to be about 20 with the pfa.
Its very messy and seem to the only club in the spfl leagues openly fighting with their players . This clause allowing to not pay the players is a srange one if implemented does thevplayer become a free agent ?

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

I’d say the clause has never been used and is untested as to what it means in practice as the wording is not as clear as it could be. It is possible that it was not given as much thought as it might have, if it was considered a real possibility. So whether it means it operates within the term agreed for a contract, perhaps allows for the suspended time to be added on the end if the contract, or perhaps even less likely was just meant to pause the duties of the contracted player to the club whilst there are no games due to the suspension of competition, it is a matter of interpretation. It also may be intended to be applied to all that have it in the contract not some. Budge may have got an opinion from a legal person but that is simply an opinion untested in court.

In the kind of circumstances where an employer was picking on some to suspend but not others, a normal employee with at least 2 years service can opt to resign and claim constructive dismissal (not an easy road). If Budge picks on those not bending to her will to suspend in circumstances where the underlying suspension of the game applies to all then I’d like to think that it would give grounds for legal action. I’m sure that the players union will keep the players right and will also have sought an opinion. All good clean fun:wink:

[cocteautwin]

I haven't seen their a/cs & i appreciate you're a knowledgeable poster but im struggling to get my head round this. £5m = 20k seasons @£250 or over 16k at £300, all before end June? Do their a/cs actually identify season ticket revenue separately or are your numbers all revenue?

I don't think their accounts actually separate or highlight what the pre 30 June season ticket money number was but it's fairly reasonable to assume almost 100% of the deferred income number is advance season ticket sales and I've just taken that number (£5m) and divided it by 10 to get an approximate number of £0.5m a week over 10 weeks.

Not so sure on what the make up of each season ticket might be, I think a lot of their tickets are priced at £450. Minus the VAT, that gives £375 in revenue. I would assume that a lot of the early season ticket buyers would be less hard up for cash and probably seated in the more expensive seats, maybe? Perhaps a lot of the early season tickets sold are the higher priced seats?

[Keith_M]

Less than 1500 was the number I was told at the end of last week.

If that’s accurate - and I’ve no reason to doubt it is given the source - then unless they start selling at a serious rate over the next month then they’re really in the deep stuff.


They put their Season Tickets on sale later than us, though,

I think they did that last year as well and eventually caught up (roughly) with the number we sold.

Though the fact they don't know what league they'll be in will probably have an effect on sales, especially if they're charging £450 for most of the seats in the main and Wheatfield stands.

[brog]

Season ticket money sold before 30 June for the following season is recorded in the Balance Sheet as deferred income. HoMFC's deferred income was £5.199m. It's possible there was other income received in advance included but the bulk of it would be season ticket money.

By comparison Hibs deferred income and accruals was £5.781m, but HoMFC showed accruals of ££1.048m separately so the true comparison was £5.781 vs £6.247.

Thanks, & to GG, I went in & saw that. The problem I'm having reconciling is how their deferred income of £5.2m from mostly season ticket sales (£4.9m at 30/6/18) matches up to total gate receipt income of just under £6m. Remember in last financial year they had a semi at Murrayfield in front of 60k & a Scottish Cup semi & final. Add that to 6 home games against us & the uglies, a further 13 home league games & 6 home cup games & they only brought in £1m more than the deferred income figure? Illumination would be appreciated.
PS, I recognise we could probably ask the same question about us but we IIRC, don't break our turnover down.

[Caversham Green]

I’d say the clause has never been used and is untested as to what it means in practice as the wording is not as clear as it could be. It is possible that it was not given as much thought as it might have, if it was considered a real possibility. So whether it means it operates within the term agreed for a contract, perhaps allows for the suspended time to be added on the end if the contract, or perhaps even less likely was just meant to pause the duties of the contracted player to the club whilst there are no games due to the suspension of competition, it is a matter of interpretation. It also may be intended to be applied to all that have it in the contract not some. Budge may have got an opinion from a legal person but that is simply an opinion untested in court.

In the kind of circumstances where an employer was picking on some to suspend but not others, a normal employee with at least 2 years service can opt to resign and claim constructive dismissal (not an easy road). If Budge picks on those not bending to her will to suspend in circumstances where the underlying suspension of the game applies to all then I’d like to think that it would give grounds for legal action. I’m sure that the players union will keep the players right and will also have sought an opinion. All good clean fun:wink:

It seems to me the key word is 'suspended'. It's applied to both the contract and the season within the same clause so you would expect it to have an identical meaning in both cases. As things stand the season is suspended with the intention of completing it at some future date (although that looks increasingly unlikely to happen) therefore I would expect the same to hold true for the contracts - ie they will have to be fulfilled if and when the season can be completed. It's unclear what will happen when they finally decide the season can't be continued but it's doubtful that the contracts could just be cancelled in those circumstances. They certainly can't just get rid of underperforming players as some over on the dark pink side are advocating.

All IMHO of course.

[brog]

I don't think their accounts actually separate or highlight what the pre 30 June season ticket money number was but it's fairly reasonable to assume almost 100% of the deferred income number is advance season ticket sales and I've just taken that number (£5m) and divided it by 10 to get an approximate number of £0.5m a week over 10 weeks.

Not so sure on what the make up of each season ticket might be, I think a lot of their tickets are priced at £450. Minus the VAT, that gives £375 in revenue. I would assume that a lot of the early season ticket buyers would be less hard up for cash and probably seated in the more expensive seats, maybe? Perhaps a lot of the early season tickets sold are the higher priced seats?

Thanks, just saw after I posted in response to Cav & GG. I understand your thinking but something doesn't add up, see my comments above, given total gate income was under £6m

[The Modfather]

It seems to me the key word is 'suspended'. It's applied to both the contract and the season within the same clause so you would expect it to have an identical meaning in both cases. As things stand the season is suspended with the intention of completing it at some future date (although that looks increasingly unlikely to happen) therefore I would expect the same to hold true for the contracts - ie they will have to be fulfilled if and when the season can be completed. It's unclear what will happen when they finally decide the season can't be continued but it's doubtful that the contracts could just be cancelled in those circumstances. They certainly can't just get rid of underperforming players as some over on the dark pink side are advocating.

All IMHO of course.

That’s what I am curious about, depending on various outcomes if it is possible to cancel contracts how will it be decided which contracts to cancel? The players union, and UEFA, will surely be close to this so clubs don’t use it as a convenient excuse to get rid of players not wanted.

[Bostonhibby]

I think any talk of them going into Admin is wishful thinking.

They still have regular FoffH money coming in and will now be able to use part of next Season's ST money to help see them through till the end of this season (as is the norm for them).

I think the main effect of missing four home games is that it'll be even longer till they finish building their new stand.This could well be right but it was a bit of a surprise to see Budge hit the panic button so early when faced with a comparaviely small loss of revenue from the remaining home games, especially for such a huge well funded club.

Events since then, and their cash balances from all that cash flow suggests there's an issue that but for the crisis they'd have been able to conceal, defer or sustain longer term.

We'll probably never know but it's great entertainment.

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[Carheenlea]

At least Hearts are now acting with a bit of humility and dignity befitting of their status of one of footballs most famous clubs by starting to apologise to those they left high and dry. Well done Hearts :aok

https://mobile.twitter.com/ApologyHearts

[whiskyhibby]

At least Hearts are now acting with a bit of humility and dignity befitting of their status of one of footballs most famous clubs by starting to apologise to those they left high and dry. Well done Hearts :aok

https://mobile.twitter.com/ApologyHearts


😂😂

[Frankhfc]

I’d say the clause has never been used and is untested as to what it means in practice as the wording is not as clear as it could be. It is possible that it was not given as much thought as it might have, if it was considered a real possibility. So whether it means it operates within the term agreed for a contract, perhaps allows for the suspended time to be added on the end if the contract, or perhaps even less likely was just meant to pause the duties of the contracted player to the club whilst there are no games due to the suspension of competition, it is a matter of interpretation. It also may be intended to be applied to all that have it in the contract not some. Budge may have got an opinion from a legal person but that is simply an opinion untested in court.

In the kind of circumstances where an employer was picking on some to suspend but not others, a normal employee with at least 2 years service can opt to resign and claim constructive dismissal (not an easy road). If Budge picks on those not bending to her will to suspend in circumstances where the underlying suspension of the game applies to all then I’d like to think that it would give grounds for legal action. I’m sure that the players union will keep the players right and will also have sought an opinion. All good clean fun:wink:


It seems to me the key word is 'suspended'. It's applied to both the contract and the season within the same clause so you would expect it to have an identical meaning in both cases. As things stand the season is suspended with the intention of completing it at some future date (although that looks increasingly unlikely to happen) therefore I would expect the same to hold true for the contracts - ie they will have to be fulfilled if and when the season can be completed. It's unclear what will happen when they finally decide the season can't be continued but it's doubtful that the contracts could just be cancelled in those circumstances. They certainly can't just get rid of underperforming players as some over on the dark pink side are advocating.

All IMHO of course.

Agreed. Clause 12 is ambiguous. It clearly lacks definition and guidance. In the event a club refuses to pay a players salary based on clause 12, my instinct is that clause 12 will fail if it is tested in court. The agreed deferral of wages appears to be not only the safe route to go down, but, that it is also the morally correct one.

[lord bunberry]

That’s what I am curious about, depending on various outcomes if it is possible to cancel contracts how will it be decided which contracts to cancel? The players union, and UEFA, will surely be close to this so clubs don’t use it as a convenient excuse to get rid of players not wanted.
This is the bit that I’d like to know more about. Surely they can’t suspend some players wages but still pay others. If they’re going to invoke the article 12 it has to be across the board.

[Scotty Leither]

The latest witterings from Budge - incidentally styled as the CHAIRMAN's update on their website (they can't even get that incontrovertible fact right) states that: "As a fan-owned club we're unable to take on a substantial amount of player debt which the club might not be in a position to honour..." is a shameless attempt to load the guilt onto the players for their current plight.

It also sets up another admin event if the SPFL board finally get this long-drawn out saga concluded this week, and they do drop a league.

Cue then the FoH being painted as the "new saviours" of HMFC mark 3 as they shed another mountain of debt and are hailed by English, Stewart and co as the model for everyone to follow.

It's so transparent it's laughable.

[DaveF]

At least Hearts are now acting with a bit of humility and dignity befitting of their status of one of footballs most famous clubs by starting to apologise to those they left high and dry. Well done Hearts :aok

https://mobile.twitter.com/ApologyHearts

Brilliant 😁

[Keith_M]

The latest witterings from Budge - incidentally styled as the CHAIRMAN's update on their website (they can't even get that incontrovertible fact right) states that: "As a fan-owned club we're unable to take on a substantial amount of player debt which the club might not be in a position to honour..." is a shameless attempt to load the guilt onto the players for their current plight.

It also sets up another admin event if the SPFL board finally get this long-drawn out saga concluded this week, and they do drop a league.

Cue then the FoH being painted as the "new saviours" of HMFC mark 3 as they shed another mountain of debt and are hailed by English, Stewart and co as the model for everyone to follow.

It's so transparent it's laughable.


They're still rabbiting on about being fan-owned ...... but they're still NOT fan-owned.


You're right about the rest, they have no shame whatsoever.

[Frankhfc]

This is the bit that I’d like to know more about. Surely they can’t suspend some players wages but still pay others. If they’re going to invoke the article 12 it has to be across the board.

This would definitely be included as part of any action against clause 12. Players shouldn't be forced into accepting wage cuts upon the threat of being paid no wages at all. Its almost certain it will be tested in court/tribunal, imo, if Budge carries out her threats.

[Frankhfc]

I see Budge is now appearing to state that the proposed enforced rule of accepting wage cuts is on the basis that she can't make one rule for some and not for others, that it wouldn't be fair on those who accept the new rule of enforced wage cuts.

I doubt clause 12 was formed for clubs to act in this way. It certainly doesn't state that it does. I hope the ones who are suspended when they refuse take it further. Budge is clearly using an ambiguous clause for cost cutting and the non payment of some players only.

[CapitalGreen]

I see Budge is now appearing to state that the proposed enforced rule of accepting wage cuts is on the basis that she can't make one rule for some and not for others, that it wouldn't be fair on those who accept the new rule of enforced wage cuts.

I doubt clause 12 was formed for clubs to act in this way. It certainly doesn't state that it does. I hope the ones who are suspended when they refuse take it further. Budge is clearly using an ambiguous clause for cost cutting and the non payment of some players only.

She also said she has no problem cutting some players wages because she had to pay those players when they were injured 😳

[Bostonhibby]

She also said she has no problem cutting some players wages because she had to pay those players when they were injured [emoji15]She's Trump like making it up as she goes along now, in a couple of weeks she'll be saying she always favoured relegating the team at the bottom of the league.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[greenginger]

I see Budge is now appearing to state that the proposed enforced rule of accepting wage cuts is on the basis that she can't make one rule for some and not for others, that it wouldn't be fair on those who accept the new rule of enforced wage cuts.

I doubt clause 12 was formed for clubs to act in this way. It certainly doesn't state that it does. I hope the ones who are suspended when they refuse take it further. Budge is clearly using an ambiguous clause for cost cutting and the non payment of some players only.


She has a lawyer and three accountants on her board so she should not be short of professional advice. Does she not listen or do they not speak ?

[Aldo]

She has a lawyer and three accountants on her board so she should not be short of professional advice. Does she not listen or do they not speak ?

I really do think that she’s of the opinion she can say what she wants because she’s the Chairwoman of them.

The air of superiority hangs over her.

The problem is she cannot remember what she said 30 seconds after it was spouted and has contradicted herself on numerous occasions, making her look stupid and inept.

Cannot wait for wages day and how this next episode is going to pan out!


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[Liberal Hibby]

Come on, this is Hearts we're talking about. It wouldn't be like them to exaggerate, would it?


:dunno:




This is the seating diagram and basically any seats in the purple sections will cost £450.... to watch them play Alloa, Arbroath, Ayr United, etc


https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/uploads/tinymce/TNMap.png

Why do they put 'family' in quote marks - it's weird. Is it not their family stand?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

This is the man ....
... who’s a Jambo

https://youtu.be/2wBUYG6_YMI

[Frankhfc]

She also said she has no problem cutting some players wages because she had to pay those players when they were injured 😳

Could certainly form part of a narrative for cost cutting, however, it would, imo, be irrelevant as per clause 12.


She has a lawyer and three accountants on her board so she should not be short of professional advice. Does she not listen or do they not speak ?

It wouldn't appear so. I think she spouts stuff that the hearts fans want to hear and for fandangos like Tom English to fawn over her.

[Just Alf]

Agreed. Clause 12 is ambiguous. It clearly lacks definition and guidance. In the event a club refuses to pay a players salary based on clause 12, my instinct is that clause 12 will fail if it is tested in court. The agreed deferral of wages appears to be not only the safe route to go down, but, that it is also the morally correct one.I believe Clause 12 is all about clubs ending the season with the same players it started with, hence the contract being put on hold while the league's on hold. It was simply intended to ensure teams would have all their players until season end, Any players signed between the suspension and the league restarting aren't eligible to play until the new season kicks off. It wasn't expected there would ever be a situation this long or that any team would try to bump players of their wages during the 'down time'

So I've been told anyways...

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[Frankhfc]

I believe Clause 12 is all about clubs ending the season with the same players it started with, hence the contract being put on hold while the league's on hold. It was simply intended to ensure teams would have all their players until season end, Any players signed between the suspension and the league restarting aren't eligible to play until the new season kicks off. It wasn't expected there would ever be a situation this long or that any team would try to bump players of their wages during the 'down time'

So I've been told anyways...

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Certainly sounds plausible. Would explain the simplicity of it. Definitely doesn't state it should be used in conjunction of cost reducing contract alterations for some and no wages for others as Dr Budge is. I really hope its tested in a legal capacity.

[007]

At least Hearts are now acting with a bit of humility and dignity befitting of their status of one of footballs most famous clubs by starting to apologise to those they left high and dry. Well done Hearts :aok

https://mobile.twitter.com/ApologyHearts

🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

[Kojock]

They're still rabbiting on about being fan-owned ...... but they're still NOT fan-owned.


You're right about the rest, they have no shame whatsoever.

I have to disagree, Budgie is a Hear7s fan and owns them so technically they are fan owned 😂

[gaz1875]

I believe Clause 12 is all about clubs ending the season with the same players it started with, hence the contract being put on hold while the league's on hold. It was simply intended to ensure teams would have all their players until season end, Any players signed between the suspension and the league restarting aren't eligible to play until the new season kicks off. It wasn't expected there would ever be a situation this long or that any team would try to bump players of their wages during the 'down time'

So I've been told anyways...

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Hertz possibly pushed for clause 12 to be inserted just in case they had world war 3 to win single handed :confused:

[lapsedhibee]

At least Hearts are now acting with a bit of humility and dignity befitting of their status of one of footballs most famous clubs by starting to apologise to those they left high and dry. Well done Hearts :aok

https://mobile.twitter.com/ApologyHearts

I don't really get that. The author is suggesting that Hearts stiffed this person and that person, but I don't think I've never seen any sort of list naming all the people that Hearts owed money to published. Does such a list exist, with names and how much money was owed to each? :dunno:

[Just Alf]

Hertz possibly pushed for clause 12 to be inserted just in case they had world war 3 to win single handed :confused:Think you've just nailed it. :agree:

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[Waxy]

I don't really get that. The author is suggesting that Hearts stiffed this person and that person, but I don't think I've never seen any sort of list naming all the people that Hearts owed money to published. Does such a list exist, with names and how much money was owed to each? :dunno:

I’d like to see that too.

[jacomo]

I have to disagree, Budgie is a Hear7s fan and owns them so technically they are fan owned 😂


Ok cool. But this means most clubs in Scotland are fan owned.

[HoboHarry]

I don't really get that. The author is suggesting that Hearts stiffed this person and that person, but I don't think I've never seen any sort of list naming all the people that Hearts owed money to published. Does such a list exist, with names and how much money was owed to each? :dunno:
Is this what you are looking for?

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-list-creditors-full-1566016

[zelda]

If clause 12 is applied and the players contract is suspended until football is resumed, would that not mean they will resume their pay when the football starts again ? ie a deferment? Surely it cannot be used to terminate a contract without compensation?

[high bee]

Hearts Finally Apologise
@ApologyHearts
·
40m
AB Ukio Bankas. Hmmm. Tricky one this. On the one hand Vlad stole from his own bank and owed them £15,488,290 causing the bank to go bust and possibly thousands of people to lose their jobs/pensions. On the other hand we won two cups, so.... swings and roundabouts. #naeharmdone



Hahaha comedy gold.

[Bostonhibby]

I’d like to see that too.It should be okay to share it, it's Hearts own list, they put it together themselves but I don't think they took out a copyright or anything on it, it's not as if they'll be doing a documentary or anything like that.

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[spike220]

Reasons I want hearts to stay up:

1.It will help us financially.
2.I would miss the derby.
3.It also another thing to remind them of we could even make up a wee song about it.

[HoboHarry]

Reasons I want hearts to stay up:

1.It will help us financially.
2.I would miss the derby.
3.It also another thing to remind them of we could even make up a wee song about it.
Reasons I want Hearts to stay up:

1. Nope, there are no reasons.

[Frankhfc]

If clause 12 is applied and the players contract is suspended until football is resumed, would that not mean they will resume their pay when the football starts again ? ie a deferment? Surely it cannot be used to terminate a contract without compensation?

That would seem to be the reasonable definition of clause 12.

Dr Budge is using it to abdicate Hearts from its responsibility of paying agreed contract salaries.

Hopefully, some of the players will challenge Hearts cost cutting on the back of a pandemic in either court or a tribunal.

:aok:

[cocteautwin]

Thanks, just saw after I posted in response to Cav & GG. I understand your thinking but something doesn't add up, see my comments above, given total gate income was under £6m

Yes, that's an interesting point, I never noticed that. I'm no VAT Expert but I wonder if the deferred income includes the VAT until the tax point is reached when the new season kicks off? If that's the case then the deferred income number needs to be reduced by 20% to enable an accurate comparison to the gate income number. £4m taken in advance, with total receipts of £6m. That makes more sense. Not sure though.

The same numbers aren't split out in HFC accounts so difficult for us to make an exact comparison using our own numbers.

Edit - if anyone knows if the above VAT point is correct, it would be good to know. If HMFC had taken in £5m of advance season ticket money (including VAT £1m), shown this in deferred income, but left only £0.6m in cash, thus having spent £0.4m of their VAT cash already, before accounting for it to HMRC, then perhaps they are even more of a basket case than we ever thought.

[MacGruber]

Some Jambos starting to claim victory that a 14-14-14 reconstruction is universally popular and has the support required already.

Doubt it has but also have never had any doubt that they will escape this one way or the other. It's what cockroaches do.

[Ozyhibby]

Some Jambos starting to claim victory that a 14-14-14 reconstruction is universally popular and has the support required already.

Doubt it has but also have never had any doubt that they will escape this one way or the other. It's what cockroaches do.

Every premiership club losing money is universally popular? Must be some good drugs floating about Gorgie these days.[emoji106][emoji23][emoji23]


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[Future17]

If clause 12 is applied and the players contract is suspended until football is resumed, would that not mean they will resume their pay when the football starts again ? ie a deferment? Surely it cannot be used to terminate a contract without compensation?

A deferment ultimately requires payment of the wages due during the period of deferment. A suspension doesn't. I agree with you about termination though.

[cocteautwin]

Some Jambos starting to claim victory that a 14-14-14 reconstruction is universally popular and has the support required already.

Doubt it has but also have never had any doubt that they will escape this one way or the other. It's what cockroaches do.

3 easy "NOs" must be Hibs, Celtic, Ross County I'd imagine. That's enough.

[Juniper Greens]

3 easy "NOs" must be Hibs, Celtic, Ross County I'd imagine. That's enough.

So, if the following conditions are met, 4 no's are required.
1. The money distribution model for the top 12 clubs does not change
2. The number of teams within the SPFL remains at 42.

Potentially they could come up with that in a 14 X 3 setup. Really stiffs brora and kelty though, so I don't understand how Ann can say it's "for the good of the game"

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes, that's an interesting point, I never noticed that. I'm no VAT Expert but I wonder if the deferred income includes the VAT until the tax point is reached when the new season kicks off? If that's the case then the deferred income number needs to be reduced by 20% to enable an accurate comparison to the gate income number. £4m taken in advance, with total receipts of £6m. That makes more sense. Not sure though.

The same numbers aren't split out in HFC accounts so difficult for us to make an exact comparison using our own numbers.

Edit - if anyone knows if the above VAT point is correct, it would be good to know. If HMFC had taken in £5m of advance season ticket money (including VAT £1m), shown this in deferred income, but left only £0.6m in cash, thus having spent £0.4m of their VAT cash already, before accounting for it to HMRC, then perhaps they are even more of a basket case than we ever thought.

Deferred income will be net of VAT.

The VAT will be shown in the VAT creditor.

[Col2]

So Hearts are one of the three clubs needed to vote for a general meeting.

So Budge has decided the Deloitte independent investigation isn’t enough and doesn’t meet her super high standards even though she said recently she wasn’t after the removal of SPFL Doncaster and co.

Are we the to assume Budge is so desperate that she is willing to de-rail the motion that got 83% approval and willing to run up costs of 000s for QC (for SPFL which is funded by clubs)? The same Budge that is trying to show horn a reconstruction through that will reduce the price payments per top flight club by c15%?

So is this ALL about:-

- Rangers trying to get a null and void or no champion outcome and as a minimum a tainted title?
- Hearts doing everything they can morally right or not to delay relegation confirmation and hope a new proposal and vote comes through that wipes out the fact that they were the worst team in the league all season?

[zelda]

That would seem to be the reasonable definition of clause 12.

Dr Budge is using it to abdicate Hearts from its responsibility of paying agreed contract salaries.

Hopefully, some of the players will challenge Hearts cost cutting on the back of a pandemic in either court or a tribunal.

:aok:

Isn't she just. I wouldn't like to think she'll get away with it. It is THEM tho.

[zelda]

A deferment ultimately requires payment of the wages due during the period of deferment. A suspension doesn't. I agree with you about termination though.

But if the time suspended is added onto the contract then the wages will be paid. eg if a 2 year deal stretches to 2 years 2 months with 2 months suspended, surely the player will still end up with 2 years pay?

[007]

So, if the following conditions are met, 4 no's are required.
1. The money distribution model for the top 12 clubs does not change
2. The number of teams within the SPFL remains at 42.

Potentially they could come up with that in a 14 X 3 setup. Really stiffs brora and kelty though, so I don't understand how Ann can say it's "for the good of the game"

Sure I saw, or heard, a week or so ago changing the number of teams in the Premiership needed 11-1.

[cocteautwin]

Deferred income will be net of VAT.

The VAT will be shown in the VAT creditor.

OK, thanks. I wonder what else might be in the Deferred Income number? As per Brog, it does seem high compared to their annual gate receipts.

[CropleyWasGod]

OK, thanks. I wonder what else might be in the Deferred Income number? As per Brog, it does seem high compared to their annual gate receipts.

Grants towards the new stand?

See Note 1.14

[Greenworld]

Sure I saw, or heard, a week or so ago changing the number of teams in the Premiership needed 11-1.It does

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[Heisenberg]

Oh dear

https://t.co/ZPwvYgIp7w?amp=1

[cocteautwin]

Deferred income will be net of VAT.

The VAT will be shown in the VAT creditor.

Actually, would the VAT be shown as part of Other taxation and Social Security? That number is only £0.6m which seems low if the VAT is in there and they've taken £5m of gross season ticket sales. Might depend on what their output VAT is although we wouldn't expect that to be too high in the close season. One would also expect the tax number to be higher than £0.6m if VAT, PAYE, Social Security etc is in there. The low Tax creditor number might suggest that the Gross Season ticket number is shown in Deferred Income. Another HMFC Accounting mystery on Hibs.net!

[CropleyWasGod]

Actually, would the VAT be shown as part of Other taxation and Social Security? That number is only £0.6m which seems low if the VAT is in there and they've taken £5m of gross season ticket sales. Might depend on what their output VAT is although we wouldn't expect that to be too high in the close season. One would also expect the tax number to be higher than £0.6m if VAT, PAYE, Social Security etc is in there. The low Tax creditor number might suggest that the Gross Season ticket number is shown in Deferred Income. Another HMFC Accounting mystery on Hibs.net!

That might be the case if you're assuming that all of the Deferred Income is ST sales. But I thought you were saying that it isn't.

[Kaiser1962]

Sure I saw, or heard, a week or so ago changing the number of teams in the Premiership needed 11-1.

I think what they seemed to be doing was not to change the prize money per place, then it would require a 9-3 majority in favour. In order to get that place 13 and 14 would recieve the same as the current 1 + 2 in the Championship recieves currently and so on down the places. I would highlight the "I think" part....

[007]

Oh dear

https://t.co/ZPwvYgIp7w?amp=1

Is that not what they want anyway? To get rid of as many as possible as soon as possible. Hickey is the only one who has any value and funnily enough, he wasn't asked to take a wage cut.

[Keith_M]

Is that not what they want anyway? To get rid of as many as possible as soon as possible. Hickey is the only one who has any value and funnily enough, he wasn't asked to take a wage cut.



Would be useful to see a list of what they paid for various players they're now trying to dump.

I think they might regret letting some of them leave for nothing.

[greenginger]

I think what they seemed to be doing was not to change the prize money per place, then it would require a 9-3 majority in favour. In order to get that place 13 and 14 would recieve the same as the current 1 + 2 in the Championship recieves currently and so on down the places. I would highlight the "I think" part....

So, they are asking two teams to play in the premier league, pay premier league wages, appear on t v in premier league live matches, and then accept championship money. ? :rolleyes:

[Smartie]

Is that not what they want anyway? To get rid of as many as possible as soon as possible. Hickey is the only one who has any value and funnily enough, he wasn't asked to take a wage cut.

I was wondering if that probably wasn't what every club would want to have happen with their players at the moment? Is the transfer value of any squad of players at the moment higher than their wage liability?

What's the point of having a squad of players if you're not going to play any football any time soon?

Looking at the number of players still in contract at their clubs beyond this season, is it not the case that the clubs with the least players probably stand the best chance of being able to survive a sustained period without income?

I mean - Berra, Damour, Naismith, Boyce - they're on big bucks for what they realistically contribute (especially towards a football club who cannot play football games). If they came to you and threatened to walk away, would you not hold the door open and usher them out with a huge smile?

(Without wishing to condone the treatment of the players, which I think is disgraceful from Hearts. I just question, from the players' point of view, the wisdom of threatening Hearts with the very thing they probably want to happen?)

[RossScott1991]

Fancy abit of a laugh on a Monday. Was looking to see if anyone could source me the thread on jamboskickback that would have covered our Scottish cup final win. Would love to read the replies to moment David Gray scores, anyone got that thread to hand😂

[RossScott1991]

https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/161000-the-official-losers-v-sevco-scottish-cup-final-thread/

Never mind found it😂

[brog]

That might be the case if you're assuming that all of the Deferred Income is ST sales. But I thought you were saying that it isn't.

I suspect the VAT is included in the Deferred Income figure of £5m, which per a note in their accounts is mostly season tickets. The net figure would therefore be about £4.2m. That explains the disparity between the deferred figure & the final gates receipt total of £6m but the actual # still seems high. In 2018 they sold 10k by 3 May & 13k by 3 August. In 2019 they had sold 10.5k by 3 June. If we're extremely generous let's say they sold 13k by end June, that works out at £385 per ticket which seems high. Anyway, given they have no idea what division they'll be in next season I don't see them hitting those numbers in next 2 months.

[The 90+2]

Reasons I want Hearts to stay up:

1. Nope, there are no reasons.

😁

[brog]

https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/161000-the-official-losers-v-sevco-scottish-cup-final-thread/

Never mind found it😂

Brilliant!! I was looking for this as well. Why is it not in The Vault?

[MrSmith]

Does the Kaunas Cowboy still own a percentage of the Jumbos?

[nonshinyfinish]

https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/161000-the-official-losers-v-sevco-scottish-cup-final-thread/

Never mind found it😂

If anyone wants to jump to the good bit, our equaliser is on page 16.

[RossScott1991]

If anyone wants to jump to the good bit, our equaliser is on page 16.

Thoroughly entertaining read this, have never seen it before. Complete meltdown about Robbie Neilson. The reaction to when rangers go 2.1 compared to next couple pages at 2.2 is brillaint hahaha

[Joe6-2]

Every premiership club losing money is universally popular? Must be some good drugs floating about Gorgie these days.[emoji106][emoji23][emoji23]


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There’s something floating about Gorgie!

[RossScott1991]

“Atleast with them being in the lower league we won’t have to put up with them gloating at a game”

my favourite comment on that cup final thread. Now I really need to try find the thread when we knocked them out the next again season as a lower league team!

[PH91]

“Atleast with them being in the lower league we won’t have to put up with them gloating at a game”

my favourite comment on that cup final thread. Now I really need to try find the thread when we knocked them out the next again season as a lower league team!

Brilliant.

My favourite is this guys prediction.

"Hibs' cup win will paper over the cracks but they'll be back to playing to 8,000 or less next year and losing money hand over fist"

[Aldo]

So 5pm is deadline to accept Budges offer or its nae wages time!


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[Gloucester Hibs]

Brilliant!! I was looking for this as well. Why is it not in The Vault?

The equivalent thread on follow follow is also a must-read!

[Gmack7]

The equivalent thread on follow follow is also a must-read!

can someone post this please

[007]

So 5pm is deadline to accept Budges offer or its nae wages time!


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Will be interesting to see what happens if some players call her bluff. They've been quick to go public a few times on this situation so I wonder if she'll continue to do so and let us know what all the players have done. Or maybe that doesn't suit the agenda.

[Caversham Green]

Grants towards the new stand?

See Note 1.14

Older accounts show a grant of £1.8m being written off over 50 years. It would mean that there was still £1.08m left at 30/6/19 but for reasons I don't understand the grant disappears from the accounts after 2015. Presumably it's related to the administration, but that was accounted for in 2014. I can't see what happened to it from a quick scan of the accounts and life's too short to look any deeper.

I notice in one set of accounts reference is made to sponsorships received in advance so that might be inflating the deferred income as well.

[Aldo]

Will be interesting to see what happens if some players call her bluff. They've been quick to go public a few times on this situation so I wonder if she'll continue to do so and let us know what all the players have done. Or maybe that doesn't suit the agenda.

Will indeed. I hope they do. I cannot wait to see what positive spin she puts on it!

We have to remember though it’s what big teams do.


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[CropleyWasGod]

Older accounts show a grant of £1.8m being written off over 50 years. It would mean that there was still £1.08m left at 30/6/19 but for reasons I don't understand the grant disappears from the accounts after 2015. Presumably it's related to the administration, but that was accounted for in 2014. I can't see what happened to it from a quick scan of the accounts and life's too short to look any deeper.

I notice in one set of accounts reference is made to sponsorships received in advance so that might be inflating the deferred income as well.

Maybe they got an Arts Council Grant for the provocative Stairs to Nowhere creation. Paid in advance, on the condition that it would be repayable if they ever went anywhere.

[Joe6-2]

Maybe they got an Arts Council Grant for the provocative Stairs to Nowhere creation. Paid in advance, on the condition that it would be repayable if they ever went anywhere.

Is there a door tax I haven’t heard about? Like the old window tax

[brog]

Maybe they got an Arts Council Grant for the provocative Stairs to Nowhere creation. Paid in advance, on the condition that it would be repayable if they ever went anywhere.

They're hoping to make a profit when it wins the Turner Prize!!

[cocteautwin]

I suspect the VAT is included in the Deferred Income figure of £5m, which per a note in their accounts is mostly season tickets. The net figure would therefore be about £4.2m. That explains the disparity between the deferred figure & the final gates receipt total of £6m but the actual # still seems high. In 2018 they sold 10k by 3 May & 13k by 3 August. In 2019 they had sold 10.5k by 3 June. If we're extremely generous let's say they sold 13k by end June, that works out at £385 per ticket which seems high. Anyway, given they have no idea what division they'll be in next season I don't see them hitting those numbers in next 2 months.

Yes, that’s seems like the most logical explanation to me, shown gross within deferred income. The tax liability at year end is too low to include the VAT on advance season ticket money.

Without wanting to delve deeper in to football club VAT accounting it doesn’t seem unreasonable to account for the output VAT at some tax point in the future when the games are played.

[Gloucester Hibs]

can someone post this please

Found the Rangers Media one which might have been the one I was remembering anyway - page 55 for Stokes' equaliser! Enjoy...

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/topic/295233-the-official-rangers-vs-hibernian-thread/page/55/#comments

[matty_f]

Found the Rangers Media one which might have been the one I was remembering anyway - page 55 for Stokes' equaliser! Enjoy...

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/topic/295233-the-official-rangers-vs-hibernian-thread/page/55/#comments

How about the kickback thread for the 2-2? Anyone save that?


Anyway - I thought the clause 12 was to protect clubs from being in a position (as they do now) where the date of the season ending passes without the season being completed.

That would naturally cause clubs an issue with players being out of contract, so a clause that says their contact would continue for the suspended period means that the club can complete the season with the required number of players.

I don't think some of the folk inside football have got their heads around that yet, and I would say that it almost certainly wasn't intended as a means to avoid paying players.

[Since452]

How about the kickback thread for the 2-2? Anyone save that?


Anyway - I thought the clause 12 was to protect clubs from being in a position (as they do now) where the date of the season ending passes without the season being completed.

That would naturally cause clubs an issue with players being out of contract, so a clause that says their contact would continue for the suspended period means that the club can complete the season with the required number of players.

I don't think some of the folk inside football have got their heads around that yet, and I would say that it almost certainly wasn't intended as a means to avoid paying players.

That's one thread I've not seen but I'd love to. Was my birthday that day!

[Moulin Yarns]

How about the kickback thread for the 2-2? Anyone save that?


Anyway - I thought the clause 12 was to protect clubs from being in a position (as they do now) where the date of the season ending passes without the season being completed.

That would naturally cause clubs an issue with players being out of contract, so a clause that says their contact would continue for the suspended period means that the club can complete the season with the required number of players.

I don't think some of the folk inside football have got their heads around that yet, and I would say that it almost certainly wasn't intended as a means to avoid paying players.

I hope posters who claimed the opposite, that contracts couldn't be suspended, will acknowledge their mistake.

This is what I suggested way back, without knowing the clause, but some posters kept saying that the clubs couldn't just extend contracts, even though I was saying suspend the contract, and were claiming Kilmarnock would only have 4 players.

[easty]

I hope posters who claimed the opposite, that contracts couldn't be suspended, will acknowledge their mistake.

This is what I suggested way back, without knowing the clause, but some posters kept saying that the clubs couldn't just extend contracts, even though I was saying suspend the contract, and were claiming Kilmarnock would only have 4 players.

Clubs can’t just extend contracts. They can suspend pay, they can’t say - we’re paying you later so you have to stay with us and play til we decide to pay you.

[matty_f]

I hope posters who claimed the opposite, that contracts couldn't be suspended, will acknowledge their mistake.

This is what I suggested way back, without knowing the clause, but some posters kept saying that the clubs couldn't just extend contracts, even though I was saying suspend the contract, and were claiming Kilmarnock would only have 4 players.

Without the knowledge of the clause to suspend contracts, they were right.
I'm not even sure if that clause exists in all contracts.

If a player does have that clause then the contract permits the club to extend without further consultation.

[lord bunberry]

I hope posters who claimed the opposite, that contracts couldn't be suspended, will acknowledge their mistake.

This is what I suggested way back, without knowing the clause, but some posters kept saying that the clubs couldn't just extend contracts, even though I was saying suspend the contract, and were claiming Kilmarnock would only have 4 players.
Kilmarnock haven’t used clause 12 as far as I’m aware.

[Tug Wilson]

I was wondering if that probably wasn't what every club would want to have happen with their players at the moment? Is the transfer value of any squad of players at the moment higher than their wage liability?

What's the point of having a squad of players if you're not going to play any football any time soon?

Looking at the number of players still in contract at their clubs beyond this season, is it not the case that the clubs with the least players probably stand the best chance of being able to survive a sustained period without income?

I mean - Berra, Damour, Naismith, Boyce - they're on big bucks for what they realistically contribute (especially towards a football club who cannot play football games). If they came to you and threatened to walk away, would you not hold the door open and usher them out with a huge smile?

(Without wishing to condone the treatment of the players, which I think is disgraceful from Hearts. I just question, from the players' point of view, the wisdom of threatening Hearts with the very thing they probably want to happen?)

I previously posted on a thread that Hearts have 26 players contracted for next season. This is a massive squad.

They definitely will be happy to see many of these guys walk away but they will also lose a number of players that they want to keep.

Also, when football does return then they will have to rebuild their squad. Their recent attempts at this have been piss poor and Our Daniel hasn't looked likely to improve that record.

[Billy Whizz]

I previously posted on a thread that Hearts have 26 players contracted for next season. This is a massive squad.

They definitely will be happy to see many of these guys walk away but they will also lose a number of players that they want to keep.

Also, when football does return then they will have to rebuild their squad. Their recent attempts at this have been piss poor and Our Daniel hasn't looked likely to improve that record.

Think 8 out of contract players have been told they can leave, presume inc Loan players

[Iggy Pope]

That's one thread I've not seen but I'd love to. Was my birthday that day!

Snap.

[Kaiser1962]

Oh dear

https://t.co/ZPwvYgIp7w?amp=1


Is that not what they want anyway? To get rid of as many as possible as soon as possible. Hickey is the only one who has any value and funnily enough, he wasn't asked to take a wage cut.

Pretty much playing into their hands. Gives them the opportunity to clear the decks. Some (most) of these players will get nowhere near their current deals elsewhere. And where do they move to?

[jacomo]

So 5pm is deadline to accept Budges offer or its nae wages time!


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Looking forward to a new STATEMENT at 5:01pm bragging about their success, with a coded dig at Hibs for good measure.

[Kaiser1962]

How about the kickback thread for the 2-2? Anyone save that?


Anyway - I thought the clause 12 was to protect clubs from being in a position (as they do now) where the date of the season ending passes without the season being completed.

That would naturally cause clubs an issue with players being out of contract, so a clause that says their contact would continue for the suspended period means that the club can complete the season with the required number of players.

I don't think some of the folk inside football have got their heads around that yet, and I would say that it almost certainly wasn't intended as a means to avoid paying players.

Could it be argued that the date for the season ending has not yet passed?

[Aldo]

Looking forward to a new STATEMENT at 5:01pm bragging about their success, with a coded dig at Hibs for good measure.

Without a doubt. Leading the way blah blah blah


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[007]

Looking forward to a new STATEMENT at 5:01pm bragging about their success, with a coded dig at Hibs for good measure.

Following the departure of all players except for Aaron Hickey, Hearts propose the league season is played to a finish by way of a game of Cuppy.

[matty_f]

Could it be argued that the date for the season ending has not yet passed?

Yeah but that is pretty much irrelevant as far as the suspension goes, in fact all clubs who have that clause in the contracts should be looking to exercise it in the unlikely event that the season gets finished at some point.

That's not to say they should stop paying players, that's not really in the spirit of the contract, but they should be taking steps to ensure they have a squad if the season gets finished in July, for example.

[mjh]

[QUOTE=Aldo;6155299]Without a doubt. Leading the way blah blah blah

Suspect there's some TV gold being recorded over the next hour or so!

[The 90+2]

[QUOTE=Aldo;6155299]Without a doubt. Leading the way blah blah blah

Suspect there's some TV gold being recorded over the next hour or so!

Nah she’s just full of threats and hot air. Guaranteed nothing gets done in the next few days or all the players have miraculously agreed a wage cut.

[Aldo]

[QUOTE=mjh;6155313]

Nah she’s just full of threats and hot air. Guaranteed nothing gets done in the next few days or all the players have miraculously agreed a wage cut.

Maybe but let’s wait and see!


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[The 90+2]

[QUOTE=90+2;6155321]

Maybe but let’s wait and see!


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Yep.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/188618-accies-chairmain-thinks-reconstruction-i-just-about-saving-hearts/

The comment by Gin Rummy is a pearler

[RoYO!]

GinRummy GinRummy
Posted 1 hour ago
All these wee diddy clubs having a pop at us, acting as if they actually matter. Some of them with such small supports it would be an absolute irrelevance if they went under. I hope they all end up ******.

I'll leave it up to the "wee diddy clubs" to take great pleasure in sending you down mate! xD

[EdinMike]

GinRummy GinRummy
Posted 1 hour ago
All these wee diddy clubs having a pop at us, acting as if they actually matter. Some of them with such small supports it would be an absolute irrelevance if they went under. I hope they all end up ******.

I'll leave it up to the "wee diddy clubs" to take great pleasure in sending you down mate! xD

Should print that off and stick it to all their directors’ office walls.

[weecounty hibby]

GinRummy GinRummy
Posted 1 hour ago
All these wee diddy clubs having a pop at us, acting as if they actually matter. Some of them with such small supports it would be an absolute irrelevance if they went under. I hope they all end up ******.

I'll leave it up to the "wee diddy clubs" to take great pleasure in sending you down mate! xD

Thing is, in the minds of the deluded ****wits like this every club in Scotland is a diddy club to the famous! They are the bigliest team in the land don't you know?!

[Fuzzywuzzy]

GinRummy GinRummy
Posted 1 hour ago
All these wee diddy clubs having a pop at us, acting as if they actually matter. Some of them with such small supports it would be an absolute irrelevance if they went under. I hope they all end up ******.

I'll leave it up to the "wee diddy clubs" to take great pleasure in sending you down mate! xD

I meant this one

All he’s interested in is his own self interest and he doesn’t speak for the other clubs so isn’t in a position to say it only suits Hearts. I’d imagine it’d suit Inverness as well so why not mention them.


There’s a few clubs out there trying to make out it’s all about Hearts and conveniently forgetting their own self interest is the only thing driving them

[jacomo]

https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/188618-accies-chairmain-thinks-reconstruction-i-just-about-saving-hearts/

The comment by Gin Rummy is a pearler


I see some of them are still describing relegation as being ‘expelled’. Dear oh dear.

[Greenworld]

Did they get the players areement or not 5pm has come and gone ?

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[Billy Whizz]

Did they get the players areement or not 5pm has come and gone ?

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Just waiting on Queen Ann’s statement

[HFC93]

Did they get the players areement or not 5pm has come and gone ?

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Apparently Michael Smith agreed to the pay cut, but his agent's email stating this has been withdrawn/gone missing.

[whiskyhibby]

Just waiting on Queen Ann’s statement

or BDOs ..........:cb:cb

[ancient hibee]

Apparently Michael Smith agreed to the pay cut, but his agent's email stating this has been withdrawn/gone missing.

Caught in the firewall.

[Billy Whizz]

Apparently Michael Smith agreed to the pay cut, but his agent's email stating this has been withdrawn/gone missing.

Seemingly not a happy bunny

[Waxy]

Does it mean they actually cant pay people?

[WoreTheGreen]

Seemingly not a happy bunny

Hopping mad

[Aldo]

I would think that if all went well Budge would have been shouting from the rooftops telling everyone??


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[ronaldo7]

Tom English will be waiting for the scoop

[jacomo]

I demand a STATEMENT.

[The 90+2]

Tom English will be rimming Budge’s hoop

Fixed 😁

[hibeerealist]

or BDOs ..........:cb:cb

Nice one Whisky, I can see what you have on your mind there so fingers crossed!!

[Tug Wilson]

Have to hand it to Ann Budge, she has managed to deflect a lot of the fans anger onto the Hearts players. And every other club in Scotland as well.

It is Trumpesque in its brilliance.

They are more concerned with having a pop at their own players and other chairmen than actually asking how they got into this situation.

Deluded idiots

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/majority-hearts-squad-agree-wage-cuts-avoid-contracts-being-suspended-2551898

Majority take the cuts


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[berwickhibee]

Have to hand it to Ann Budge, she has managed to deflect a lot of the fans anger onto the Hearts players. And every other club in Scotland as well.

It is Trumpesque in its brilliance.

They are more concerned with having a pop at their own players and other chairmen than actually asking how they got into this situation.

Deluded idiots

And therein lies the truth.

She has been a disaster but let's fool our thick fans by blaming everybody else. 😁

[A Hi-Bee]

get them to **** and then more, cheating low life hertz ****s

[CapitalGreen]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/majority-hearts-squad-agree-wage-cuts-avoid-contracts-being-suspended-2551898

Majority take the cuts


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If Barry is saying “at least two” are holding out then you know it’s more than 2. He’ll be getting his info from club with their most positive of spin on it. We’ll get the players side of things in the tabloids later tonight once their agents have leaked the true story.

[Waxy]

At least 2 could be the whole squad.

[JimBHibees]

At least 2 could be the whole squad.

At least 2 is many more than 2. Shambles of a club.

[Rumble de Thump]

"I cannot – and will not, in good conscience – leave the club in a position again where football debt is left as a ‘legacy’ for those who follow." I wonder what her good conscience tells her about refusing to honour contracts she signed with her employees, and publicly threatening and hanging said employees out to dry.

[007]

Seems a bit of a cheek to be one of the ones calling for the SPFL EGM for an investigation into some of the SPFL board for bullying/coercion.

[Waxy]

"I cannot – and will not, in good conscience – leave the club in a position again where football debt is left as a ‘legacy’ for those who follow." I wonder what her good conscience tells her about refusing to honour contracts she signed with her employees, and publicly threatining and hanging said employees out to dry.

Does anyone trust anyone at the wongadome?

[Springbank]

Sorry if I missed it but any idea who the 'minimum of 2' are?

[RoYO!]

Seems a bit of a cheek to be one of the ones calling for the SPFL EGM for an investigation into some of the SPFL board for bullying/coercion.

Has there ever been a better example of coersion than "take the pay cut or there's the door"?!

[Iain G]

Has there ever been a better example of coersion than "take the pay cut or there's the opening where the door should be but we haven't ordered that yet"?!

Just fixed that for accuracy... 😁

[The 90+2]

Sorry if I missed it but any idea who the 'minimum of 2' are?

Two internationalists.

[NOLA]

Hertz finding out how well liked they are by every other club in Scotland except their big bigot brother in govan ....

[Coco Bryce]

Two internationalists.

They have internationalists in that squad? 😂

Defo can't be Naismith. He took his wage cut at the very start.

[Col2]

It’s Smith, Uche and Berra is what I heard.

[-Jonesy-]

Poetic justice if Berra is holding out on that shower

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Poetic justice if Berra is holding out on that shower

Indeed, especially the way they treated him. Totally shambolic way to treat their players, hope this hits HMFC hard.

[Keith_M]

So, long after almost every club, they've finally got their players (or most of them) to take a wage reduction, through weeks of coercion and threats.


The class of that club knows no bounds.

:aok:




p.s I thought I'd just point out that their overall wage bill, despite the reductions, is still massively higher than that at Easter Road. Amazing stuff, Queen Ann

[JimBHibees]

So, long after almost every club, they've finally got their players (or most of them) to take a wage reduction, through weeks of coercion and threats.


The class of that club knows no bounds.

:aok:




p.s I thought I'd just point out that their overall wage bill, despite the reductions, is still massively higher than that at Easter Road. Amazing stuff, Queen Ann

Even after the agreed cuts? Incredible if that is the case.

[Greenworld]

Poetic justice if Berra is holding out on that showerWill he not still be getting paid by dundee

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[Peevemor]

Will he not still be getting paid by dundee

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His contract is with Hearts - not Dundee. Hearts pay his wages and Dundeee will reimburse Hearts whatever amount waas agreed.

[Mainstandman]

I wonder if Budge was hoping that more would not agree so she could get rid of them and their wage. as it stands she'll have to find 70-90% of their wage bill which still appears unsustainable for them. and lumbered with them for the duration of their contracts.

[CentreLine]

I wonder if Budge was hoping that more would not agree so she could get rid of them and their wage. as it stands she'll have to find 70-90% of their wage bill which still appears unsustainable for them. and lumbered with them for the duration of their contracts.

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of how many players agreed to what percentage. My money is on any players who accepted a reduction did so on the bases of no more than 10%. Just a hunch

[Biggie]

Yeah it would be interesting to see how much some of these guys are on....I mean £6 / 8k per week at a club like hearts is a nonsense, and surely asking for trouble.

[Peevemor]

Yeah it would be interesting to see how much some of these guys are on....I mean £6 / 8k per week at a club like hearts is a nonsense, and surely asking for trouble.

Yeah, but Budge has managed to claw back 10% from most of them.

So that's nice...

[CockneyRebel]

Yeah, but Budge has managed to claw back 10% from most of them.

So that's nice...


But it's still nowhere near the 50% that she said was necessary for the club operations to remain sustainable.

[sean04]

They have changed there tune. When the players weren’t agreeing to the reduction in wages they were all ***** and hopefully the leave. Players agree wage reductions, great guys, great players, come on hearts! What a club 😂😂

[Jim44]

They have changed there tune. When the players weren’t agreeing to the reduction in wages they were all ***** and hopefully the leave. Players agree wage reductions, great guys, great players, come on hearts! What a club 😂😂

I haven’t taken much interest in their player problems but I assume there has recently been a bit of a climb down on their behalf. Probably less from a sense of loyalty and goodwill towards their club, which has treated them like dirt, but more from a sense of self preservation in view of the ongoing virus crisis, ensuring some income and the unknown dilemma of the end of contracts/summer transfer window dogfight.

[Real Emerald]

But it's still nowhere near the 50% that she said was necessary for the club operations to remain sustainable.

Yes, and they’ve now used their get out of jail card. If they can’t pay wages and have costs they can’t meet the next stage will be administration. They can dump all their players, bump their debts and take a points deduction this season when they look like being relegated anyway. Maybe I’m being a bit too simplistic as I’m not sure of all the implications of administration but it certainly wouldn’t surprise me.

[HoboHarry]

But it's still nowhere near the 50% that she said was necessary for the club operations to remain sustainable.
Where is it being reported that the figure was 10%? I haven't seen it as yet.....

[Joe6-2]

Yeah it would be interesting to see how much some of these guys are on....I mean £6 / 8k per week at a club like hearts is a nonsense, and surely asking for trouble.

Yeah but, but it’s to avoid relegation

[LancsHibs]

Sorry but I hadn’t been playing close attention to the situation but could someone answer the following questions for me as simply as possible thank you:
Why aren’t Hertz relegated yet?
What’s the hold up?
When do we expect it to happen?

[jacomo]

Yes, and they’ve now used their get out of jail card. If they can’t pay wages and have costs they can’t meet the next stage will be administration. They can dump all their players, bump their debts and take a points deduction this season when they look like being relegated anyway. Maybe I’m being a bit too simplistic as I’m not sure of all the implications of administration but it certainly wouldn’t surprise me.


They would do all that and still claim relegation is ‘unfair’.

Classless club.

[Waxy]

Sorry but I hadn’t been playing close attention to the situation but could someone answer the following questions for me as simply as possible thank you:
Why aren’t Hertz relegated yet?
What’s the hold up?
When do we expect it to happen?

I thought they were going to do it yesterday.
There was meant to be an SPFL meeting yesterday. Did it happen?

[monarch]

It’s a pity we can’t get the semi final played now. With all the wage shenanigans and threats from the club owner their dressing room spirit must be on the floor.

[Keith_M]

Where is it being reported that the figure was 10%? I haven't seen it as yet.....


From the Banderson article (https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-players-face-5pm-wages-deadline-2550549) from yesterday


"With monthly salaries due to reach bank accounts on Thursday, those agreeing to reductions of between 10 and 30 per cent must do so by close of business this afternoon for money to be processed."

[jacomo]

From the Banderson article (https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-players-face-5pm-wages-deadline-2550549) from yesterday


"With monthly salaries due to reach bank accounts on Thursday, those agreeing to reductions of between 10 and 30 per cent must do so by close of business this afternoon for money to be processed."


The fitting and lighting of the name and Hearts crest are still amateurish, but that is the best photo of their new main stand I have seen... it really doesn’t look too bad there.

[Kato]

From the Banderson article (https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-players-face-5pm-wages-deadline-2550549) from yesterday


"With monthly salaries due to reach bank accounts on Thursday, those agreeing to reductions of between 10 and 30 per cent must do so by close of business this afternoon for money to be processed."Thought I'd blundered into a thread from 2011 there. Banderson makes these things sound so banal.

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[brog]

So, long after almost every club, they've finally got their players (or most of them) to take a wage reduction, through weeks of coercion and threats.


The class of that club knows no bounds.

:aok:




p.s I thought I'd just point out that their overall wage bill, despite the reductions, is still massively higher than that at Easter Road. Amazing stuff, Queen Ann

Their total wage bill is indeed higher than ours but it's not massively & there's a strong case to be made that the average wage of our 1st team squad is actually higher than their's. The real difference comes from their bloated structure, 122 players & coaches etc versus our 76, & 71 admin & commercial staff versus our 35. They also have 146 p/t hospitality staff.
Here's the most recent (6/19) numbers.
Wages & salaries; Us, £5.561m Them, £7.446m. As above their total includes 146 p/t staff. If we say approx £3k a year each, we can knock off the £446k leaving their bill at £7m. Now let's say we both pay much the same for Comm/admin staff, say £20k a year, (this # doesn't really matter), that reduces our wage bill by £700k & Hearts by £1.42m. The balance of the wage bill is now Hibs, £4.861m, Hearts £5.58m.
We're shown as having 27 1st team players, including 4 loans & they have 29 inc 2 loans. We have 4 senior coaches shown & they have 5, plus Potter & Worzel!
That means they have an additional 86 players & coaches to our 45. Again let's choose a salary for these players etc. I often see £500 pw (£25k pa) bandied about on here as a wage for younger players. For arguments sake let's knock it down to £300 pw or £15k pa. That knocks their remaining (senior Players) wage bill down to £4.29m & ours to £4.19m.
Given they have 36 senior staff to pay compared to our 31, a straight average comes out at £119k pa for them & £135k pa for us. Now we can argue for ever about the numbers I've guesstimated here but whatever #s you use I believe it's apparent that our players are being paid at least comparable with those at PBS. Incidentally despite us only having 111 footballing/comm/admin staff to their 193, our pension payments are more than twice what Hearts are expending. The good news is Hearts reducing 1st team wages by 10/30% is not going to be significant.

[HoboHarry]

The fitting and lighting of the name and Hearts crest are still amateurish, but that is the best photo of their new main stand I have seen... it really doesn’t look too bad there.
Agreed, best to be in the dark in keeping with their fans.....

[Zazu62]

It’s a pity we can’t get the semi final played now. With all the wage shenanigans and threats from the club owner their dressing room spirit must be on the floor.

They never got paid for weeks/months on end under Romanov If anything it helped them creates a siege mentality

[Iggy Pope]

Might’ve been noted already and sorry I can’t post a link, but there is an entertaining Twitter account, baiting our chums under the name Hearts Finally Apologise. It’s made me laugh.

[Billy Whizz]

Might’ve been noted already and sorry I can’t post a link, but there is an entertaining Twitter account, baiting our chums under the name Hearts Finally Apologise. It’s made me laugh.

It’s on one of the threads Iggy

[Since452]

Once this is all over Hearts should look back and be embarrassed at the way they've conducted themselves.

Then again it is Hearts so probably won't

[Jack]

I wonder if Budge was hoping that more would not agree so she could get rid of them and their wage. as it stands she'll have to find 70-90% of their wage bill which still appears unsustainable for them. and lumbered with them for the duration of their contracts.

If the staff have been furloughed the government will be chipping in towards that amount.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200428/ce730d25e4c09384842f348a42a619a5.jpg

Is this the Jambo that writes for the guardian who has been pushing reconstruction the last couple of weeks?


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[Col2]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200428/ce730d25e4c09384842f348a42a619a5.jpg

Is this the Jambo that writes for the guardian who has been pushing reconstruction the last couple of weeks?


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Yup and on a single mission to keep the Jambos in the top league. Ignores all facts and counter arguments and now king fud on social media.

[007]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200428/ce730d25e4c09384842f348a42a619a5.jpg

Is this the Jambo that writes for the guardian who has been pushing reconstruction the last couple of weeks?


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Yes, he's the one that tries to pass himself off as a journalist. Would love to hear what BS he'd spout when those tweets were put in front of him.

[jacomo]

Yes, he's the one that tries to pass himself off as a journalist. Would love to hear what BS he'd spout when those tweets were put in front of him.


Give it a go. £10 says he gives it the 1-5 then blocks you.

[007]

Give it a go. £10 says he gives it the 1-5 then blocks you.

Someone's already done it.

https://twitter.com/BIGSHORTY100/status/1255156931238322176?s=19

[Crazyhorse]

The fitting and lighting of the name and Hearts crest are still amateurish, but that is the best photo of their new main stand I have seen... it really doesn’t look too bad there.

It looks pitch black so I’m inclined to agree that is definitely the best photo!
Maybe I’m looking at a different one to you?

[Since452]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200428/ce730d25e4c09384842f348a42a619a5.jpg

Is this the Jambo that writes for the guardian who has been pushing reconstruction the last couple of weeks?


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Oh dear

[truehibernian]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200428/ce730d25e4c09384842f348a42a619a5.jpg

Is this the Jambo that writes for the guardian who has been pushing reconstruction the last couple of weeks?


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The very same Ewan Murray...............never let him forget :cb

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/aug/02/hearts-jim-jefferies-vladimir-romanov

[Bostonhibby]

If ever there was a shoe in for the Duncan gig it's Ewan.

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[EdinMike]

The very same Ewan Murray...............never let him forget :cb

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/aug/02/hearts-jim-jefferies-vladimir-romanov

“ Hearts' greatest player, Willie Bauld, refused to set foot inside Tynecastle for years after being charged for the matchball for his testimonial game.”

They really are cheapskates.

[Stonewall]

If the staff have been furloughed the government will be chipping in towards that amount.

Ultimately it’s us that pays.

[O'Rourke3]

Ultimately it’s us that pays.I'm happy enough about my contribution to that so long as they go down....

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[MWHIBBIES]

It’s a pity we can’t get the semi final played now. With all the wage shenanigans and threats from the club owner their dressing room spirit must be on the floor.

They could start the u14s and we'd find a way to make a meal of it.

[ballengeich]

Ultimately it’s us that pays.

and many generations to follow.

[Rumble de Thump]

Yes, he's the one that tries to pass himself off as a journalist. Would love to hear what BS he'd spout when those tweets were put in front of him.

I always find it disturbing when a journalist abuses their position to spout biased garbage for their own selfish agenda. People like Ewan Murray shouldn't be confused with decent, quality and impartial journalists.

[jacomo]

The very same Ewan Murray...............never let him forget :cb

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/aug/02/hearts-jim-jefferies-vladimir-romanov


He’s unbearable. But he’s at least consistent - when Hearts do something indefensible, he will try to obfuscate the issue and throw mud in as many directions as possible (bonus points for any needless and out of context digs at us of course).

Still, that article - maroon tinged throughout - carries the tacit admission that Hearts are a basket case and have been for decades.

All this fury and indignation is not really about ‘unfairness’. It’s about the horrific consequences of relegation for them. They are in a hole.

[Dan Sarf]

“ Hearts' greatest player, Willie Bauld, refused to set foot inside Tynecastle for years after being charged for the matchball for his testimonial game.”

They really are cheapskates.

Em, Hibs refused to pay for Gordon Smith's ankle operation.

[Ozyhibby]

Em, Hibs refused to pay for Gordon Smith's ankle operation.

Yip, people complaining about what agents take out of the game forget how disgracefully clubs treated players before they came along.


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[Eyrie]

Em, Hibs refused to pay for Gordon Smith's ankle operation.

And he went on to win two more league titles after paying for the operation himself.

Interesting fact - Huns RIP and Celtc have the most league titles, but Smith is third with five which puts him ahead of us, Aberdeen and Hearts who each have four. And Smith never played for the Ugly Sisters.

[brog]

Yip, people complaining about what agents take out of the game forget how disgracefully clubs treated players before they came along.


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I think it's ok to complain about both. Players were treated disgracefully but some current agents, a well known Scottish one springs to mind, behave disgracefully.

[Waxy]

Jambos are at the tantrum stage now.

[AltheHibby]

Jambos are at the tantrum stage now.

And they're infighting about joining the English leagues. And that muppet Lawson reckons they're the most Scottish club up here!

https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/188450-is-it-now-time-to-consider-getting-out-of-this-corrupt-scottish-league/

[Bostonhibby]

And they're infighting about joining the English leagues. And that muppet Lawson reckons they're the most Scottish club up here!

https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/188450-is-it-now-time-to-consider-getting-out-of-this-corrupt-scottish-league/Pleasing. You'd think Hearts were being relegated, why haven't some of these revolutionary ideas came up before on kickback? Say around January for example, or when they were bragging about beating st Mirren before the lockdown then relegating them?

By the looks of it there's going to be an awful lot of corrupt leagues around the world relegating the teams that were at the bottom when the season had to end.



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[Waxy]

If you dont relegate you cant promote. Pretty simple.

[Dalianwanda]

Calling in the big guns now of the statement world

"I can't believe I am saying this, but I would love for Jim Traynor to come back and help out the clubs taking the SPFL to task. Despite my dislike for the guy, he would run rings round the SPFL."

[Kato]

“ Hearts' greatest player, Willie Bauld, refused to set foot inside Tynecastle for years after being charged for the matchball for his testimonial game.”

They really are cheapskates.He was given a bill for the whole event. The reason the match ball is mentioned so much is that it was itemised on that bill.

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[ACLeith]

Dug out my Para Handy DVD to pass the time this afternoon. The opening credits showed the book that engineer Dan McPhail was reading, it was called “Hearts Adrift”.

[Since452]

And they're infighting about joining the English leagues. And that muppet Lawson reckons they're the most Scottish club up here!

https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/188450-is-it-now-time-to-consider-getting-out-of-this-corrupt-scottish-league/

The hypocrisy in that thread man. "We all want a level playing field" 😂😂😂

[Cabbage East]

If ever there was a shoe in for the Duncan gig it's Ewan.

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Can anyone explain all this 'Duncan' chat? :confused:

[jacomo]

Can anyone explain all this 'Duncan' chat? :confused:


Ask Judy.

Or search for Duncan Murray on t’internet... not so much the black sheep of the family as the disliked, useless maroon one.

[Newry Hibs]

If you dont relegate you cant promote. Pretty simple.

Well, watched the 'that was the team that was' about Hibs and the first season after the Mercer bid, we were languishing bottom and then there was an announcement that there would be no relegation that season.

[Waxy]

Well, watched the 'that was the team that was' about Hibs and the first season after the Mercer bid, we were languishing bottom and then there was an announcement that there would be no relegation that season.

That was for proper league expansion. We ended up second bottom.

[Hibernianinc]

And they're infighting about joining the English leagues. And that muppet Lawson reckons they're the most Scottish club up here!

https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/188450-is-it-now-time-to-consider-getting-out-of-this-corrupt-scottish-league/

That's quite staggering.

Where were these utter trumpets when they were busy 'winning' a Scottish cup against us, using laundered money while bumping charities etc., and benefiting from one of the most inept (corrupt in their eyes) refereeing performances since Alan Freeland forgot 2 yellows = red.

For all their noise, they'll put their cardigans back on, fawn over Budge's next statement and hand over their money without question. As always.

Fannys.

[A Hi-Bee]

Are they doon yet?

:thumbsup:

[jacomo]

Well, watched the 'that was the team that was' about Hibs and the first season after the Mercer bid, we were languishing bottom and then there was an announcement that there would be no relegation that season.


Sure. And if a properly considered reconstruction plan that improves the league gets approved by the SPFL membership, other clubs may benefit in a similar way in future.

Zero chance of that being in place for next season though.

[jacomo]

Maybe we could just get all the Duncans to self-isolate for 18 months? And Hearts to self-isolate from football?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTo3-halKBw

[A Hi-Bee]

**** the hertz are they no doon yet.

:greengrin

[Waxy]

**** the hertz are they no doon yet.

:greengrin

Late Friday would favourite for the announcement.

[A Hi-Bee]

Late Friday would favourite for the announcement.

****in cockroaches on any day of the week.
Get them doon.

:greengrin

[O'Rourke3]

Maybe we could just get all the Duncans to self-isolate for 18 months? And Hearts to self-isolate from football?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTo3-halKBwThey've been self isolating from football for years. It's social distancing thry are vert poor at. Usua.ly a contact to knee or ankle...

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[Captain Trips]

Some positive news coming out of Tynecastle: Hearts squads PPE arrives ready for training:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71addw%2BynWL._SL1500_.jpg






The Budge though says she will be taking no chances:




https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61w6id1B6zL._AC_SY355_.jpg

[jacomo]

I think it's ok to complain about both. Players were treated disgracefully but some current agents, a well known Scottish one springs to mind, behave disgracefully.


True dat.

Also, I would argue that it’s changes in law rather than agents that has changed the balance of power between players and clubs.

[tamig]

The hypocrisy in that thread man. "We all want a level playing field" 😂😂😂

A phrase never to be found in the Yamasaurus. An alien concept to them.