Shocking News

[Moulin Yarns]

This story broke in the early morning, and I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned on here yet.


Essex lorry deaths: 39 bodies found in shipping container



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50150070

It's the sort of thing you imagine only happens in TV dramas but reading the story it appears to be a common occurance.

[Hibrandenburg]

This story broke in the early morning, and I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned on here yet.


Essex lorry deaths: 39 bodies found in shipping container



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50150070

It's the sort of thing you imagine only happens in TV dramas but reading the story it appears to be a common occurance.

Absolutely appalling. A small mercy that no children were amongst the dead. I imagine that most of them will have dumped their papers and it will take a long time to identify them.

[G B Young]

As you say it's hard to believe something like this has really happened. I found it hard to take in when I first saw the story and now that further details are starting to emerge it just gets worse.

Not only is the fate of those in the container utterly horrendous but for those who came upon such a scene and those who are dealing with its aftermath it's surely something you would never really come to terms with.

[Fife-Hibee]

Seems to be a lot of sympathy for the driver going around. Many claiming that he didn't know what was in the back of the truck.

As if they would know...

[Scouse Hibee]

Seems to be a lot of sympathy for the driver going around. Many claiming that he didn't know what was in the back of the truck.

As if they would know...

It’s a possibility many HGV drivers hook up already loaded trailers.

[Rocky]

I was a little surprised that driver had been arrested on suspicion of murder. Does that not imply that the police believe he intended to kill them?

[Hibee87]

I was a little surprised that driver had been arrested on suspicion of murder. Does that not imply that the police believe he intended to kill them?

That's what I thought when I read this earlier, I thought murder was defined as premeditated killing of another person. If he knew hey we're in there and a sir hole was accidentally sealed (which I imagine is what happened and they suffocated) then it would be involuntary manslaughter, no?
Horrible, horrible thing to read about either way.

[mjhibby]

Puts brexit into context. Just can't believe this is happening in 2019. We must root out these evil people who prey on those wanting asylum. Truly,truly shocking.

[Killiehibbie]

It’s a possibility many HGV drivers hook up already loaded trailers.

Most drivers will have no idea what is actually in the trailer or container they pick up. The loading is done out of their sight or even in another country in the case of containers. If the seal hasn't been tampered with or changed the driver can't get be accused of very much.

[RyeSloan]

Most drivers will have no idea what is actually in the trailer or container they pick up. The loading is done out of their sight or even in another country in the case of containers. If the seal hasn't been tampered with or changed the driver can't get be accused of very much.

Details are still way too sketchy to have any idea really of what’s gone on.

It’s rather unclear for example who raised the alarm that prompted the ambulance service to attend the trailer in he first place.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Details are still way too sketchy to have any idea really of what’s gone on.

I think that's why it didn't get much of a mention earlier, people waiting for more details before passing comment.

[Andy Bee]

Most drivers will have no idea what is actually in the trailer or container they pick up. The loading is done out of their sight or even in another country in the case of containers. If the seal hasn't been tampered with or changed the driver can't get be accused of very much.



Which is why the suspected murder charge for the driver is very sketchy, there's certainly a lot more to this than is in the public domain.

It's reported that it's a fridge motor so it's very possible the driver didn't know what was in the back, it's common place to only have a fridge trailer opened at its final destination by the warehouse staff but that could be verified very easily if that was the drivers defence.

This is a truly horrific state of affairs it really is.

[Cataplana]

Which is why the suspected murder charge for the driver is very sketchy, there's certainly a lot more to this than is in the public domain.

It's reported that it's a fridge motor so it's very possible the driver didn't know what was in the back, it's common place to only have a fridge trailer opened at its final destination by the warehouse staff but that could be verified very easily if that was the drivers defence.

This is a truly horrific state of affairs it really is.

Bizarrely they were saying on the news last night that they have to establish the cause of death. How can they be talking about a murder charge if that's the case?

[Hiber-nation]

Bizarrely they were saying on the news last night that they have to establish the cause of death. How can they be talking about a murder charge if that's the case?

I don't get it either. Maybe some incriminating evidence was found in the cab.

[Allant1981]

Apparently he only picked up the trailer about 30 minutes before the bodies were found, very strange if true

[Moulin Yarns]

Apparently he only picked up the trailer about 30 minutes before the bodies were found, very strange if true

Not really. Tilbury is a container port, Containers are loaded and stacked at one port and offloaded and stacked at another port with no tractor units used until they are due to be taken to final destinations. I gather he had driven from Northern Ireland to Dublin, ferry to Holyhead and onwards to the docks at Tilbury. For a haulage company to go one direction empty is not usually cost effective which makes me think they were paid a lot of money to just collect the container and deliver to an address, presumably back in Northern Ireland.

[Hibbyradge]

Bizarrely they were saying on the news last night that they have to establish the cause of death. How can they be talking about a murder charge if that's the case?

He's been arrested "on suspicion" of murder.

No charges have been laid.

When they learn more about what happens, the correct charges, if any, will be prepared.

[Pretty Boy]

I deal with delivery drivers on a daily basis, some of them long distance, and they work under a lot of pressure to meet deadlines and it seems a pretty lonely and stressful job. The guys exclusively employed directly by the company they are delivering for are always aware of what they are delivering but the guys who drive the big Euro trucks with full containers on the back quite often only pick up the load at the port and have no idea what is in the back. It's also not uncommon to get a couple of guys who have travelled from Germany or Poland who have very little English and again have simply picked a container up and shared the driving for an extended period.

Details are so vague at the moment it's hard to draw any conclusions about what has gone on. Of course every sympathy is with the poor people in the back of the truck, not just for the way they have died but also for the kind of life they may have been living before ending up in such a situation. There is a young girl from Malawi who goes to the same church as me who was a victim of human trafficking in her early teens and her story is absolutely horrendous. Fortunately she escaped but thousands don't. It will be interesting to see how things play out but if it is found the driver was unaware of the people present in the back I hope there is support for him as well as it is likely to be hugely traumatic for him.

It's just a really sad story.

[Allant1981]

Not really. Tilbury is a container port, Containers are loaded and stacked at one port and offloaded and stacked at another port with no tractor units used until they are due to be taken to final destinations. I gather he had driven from Northern Ireland to Dublin, ferry to Holyhead and onwards to the docks at Tilbury. For a haulage company to go one direction empty is not usually cost effective which makes me think they were paid a lot of money to just collect the container and deliver to an address, presumably back in Northern Ireland.

Sorry I meant it was strange he was charged with murder if he only collected the trailer 30 minutes before, it came into the country almost 2 weeks ago I'm sure

[Sylar]

Turns out all of the dead are Chinese. Did they willingly get into this unit thinking they were bound for a new life somewhere in Europe...?

Desperately sad story.

[Billy Whizz]

Turns out all of the dead are Chinese. Did they willingly get into this unit thinking they were bound for a new life somewhere in Europe...?

Desperately sad story.

Just read that too. What a long journey for them, and to end like this, just shocking

One thing I haven’t read about, was who raised the emergency alarm?
Was it the Driver?

[Allant1981]

Just read that too. What a long journey for them, and to end like this, just shocking

One thing I haven’t read about, was who raised the emergency alarm?
Was it the Driver?

Read earlier it was the driver but again that seems strange if he has then been arrested on suspicion of murder

[Scouse Hibee]

Not really. Tilbury is a container port, Containers are loaded and stacked at one port and offloaded and stacked at another port with no tractor units used until they are due to be taken to final destinations. I gather he had driven from Northern Ireland to Dublin, ferry to Holyhead and onwards to the docks at Tilbury. For a haulage company to go one direction empty is not usually cost effective which makes me think they were paid a lot of money to just collect the container and deliver to an address, presumably back in Northern Ireland.

It doesn’t look like a shipping container in the photographs, it’s a refrigerated trailer unit.

[southsider]

It doesn’t look like a shipping container in the photographs, it’s a refrigerated trailer unit.

Reports suggest people were Chinese.

[Andy Bee]

Not really. Tilbury is a container port, Containers are loaded and stacked at one port and offloaded and stacked at another port with no tractor units used until they are due to be taken to final destinations. I gather he had driven from Northern Ireland to Dublin, ferry to Holyhead and onwards to the docks at Tilbury. For a haulage company to go one direction empty is not usually cost effective which makes me think they were paid a lot of money to just collect the container and deliver to an address, presumably back in Northern Ireland.


It's a fridge trailer though not a container, it can only be moved by a lorry.

[Cataplana]

He's been arrested "on suspicion" of murder.

No charges have been laid.

When they learn more about what happens, the correct charges, if any, will be prepared.

I can get understand why they want to hold on to the guy, and that they probably know a lot more about this than has been released to the press.

I just find it curious that a man can be arrested before they have established what crime has been committed.

The old fashioned phrase was "helping police with their enquiries." I wonder where the suggestion of murder came from.

[Hibbyradge]

The old fashioned phrase was "helping police with their enquiries." I wonder where the suggestion of murder came from.

39 bodies in the back of a freezer on wheels would be a bit of a hint.

If they didn't arrest the driver, he'd be free to walk away. I think if they charged him with manslaughter or trafficking or something lesser than murder, it would cause the prosecution some difficulty if they were to change the charge to murder in future.

It's not impossible but It's safer to downgrade a charge than upgrade.

Defence lawyers will, rightly, use any little thing to throw doubt on the prosecution case.

[Cataplana]

39 bodies in the back of a freezer on wheels would be a bit of a hint.

If they didn't arrest the driver, he'd be free to walk away. I think if they charged him with manslaughter or trafficking or something lesser than murder, it would cause the prosecution some difficulty if they were to change the charge to murder in future.

It's not impossible but It's safer to downgrade a charge than upgrade.

Defence lawyers will, rightly, use any little thing to throw doubt on the prosecution case.

Fair enough, I get it now.

[Andy Bee]

Now reported as being frozen to death, I really hope they nail every single person that has any sort of involvement in this.

[ekhibee]

This actually brought a tear to my eye, so desperately sad. There was a similar event in 2000 when 55 people died in a refrigerated lorry, they'd been loaded in Holland and transported from Belgium. From what I've read of this so far, this lorry was also coming from Zeebrugge, the same port as the previous one. Absolutely tragic. The worst thing about it is that very probably a chain is involved, and they'll never get to the real people responsible.

[Jim44]

Just catching a bit about it on the news, I think I heard them mentioning the Mafia.

[Billy Whizz]

Just catching a bit about it on the news, I think I heard them mentioning the Mafia.

Not sure about Mafia, but this tragic case is just probably a fraction of these sort of people trafficking movements!

I wonder what went wrong with this journey, verses, probably many that happen day after day

Been a few incidents in Edinburgh of Chinese people being here illegally, so this isn’t going to stop

[Jim44]

Not sure about Mafia, but this tragic case is just probably a fraction of these sort of people trafficking movements!

I wonder what went wrong with this journey, verses, probably many that happen day after day

Been a few incidents in Edinburgh of Chinese people being here illegally, so this isn’t going to stop

The word Mafia was definitely mentioned in the report, but to be honest, I didn’t hear everything that was said ........ maybe they were referring to the Bulgarian mafia. :dunno:

[Killiehibbie]

Not sure about Mafia, but this tragic case is just probably a fraction of these sort of people trafficking movements!

I wonder what went wrong with this journey, verses, probably many that happen day after day

Been a few incidents in Edinburgh of Chinese people being here illegally, so this isn’t going to stop
I think i read human trafficking is 3rd in global crime after drugs and guns.
I could only imagine the freezer was mistakenly turned on or the interior door that pulls down to create a seperate temperature zone was up and they didn't know how to pull it down or even see it in the dark.

[Moulin Yarns]

Looks like a breakthrough in identifying the victims

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50185788

[Billy Whizz]

Bit on BBC News, that they think some of the victims maybe Vietnamese. Seemingly paid £30,000 to get to the U.K.

[Hibernia&Alba]

What a tragedy; 39 dead is just horrendous. No doubt the full picture of events will emerge, but that's such a loss of life. The fact they were trying to enter the country illegally shouldn't affect our judgement. Anyone so desperate to travel across the world must be trying to escape a dire situation.

[danhibees1875]

Anyone so desperate to travel across the world must be trying to escape a dire situation.

That's my thought process when I hear of these events. Things like this or crossing the channel in small unstable rafts with infants. How bad their life must be to take these risks, in the hope of finding what you and I would easily take for granted.

[Hibernia&Alba]

That's my thought process when I hear of these events. Things like this or crossing the channel in small unstable rafts with infants. How bad their life must be to take these risks, in the hope of finding what you and I would easily take for granted.

Indeed. Most people will have compassion for a group of people suffocating in a lorry, but there will be some who dismiss such victims because they were trying to enter the country illegally. We must remember these people would have been trafficked, and someone is getting rich off of smuggling vulnerable people in search of a better life. They were also victims in that sense. Nobody takes the decision to try to move across the world lightly; it's dangerous, as those 39 people sadly learned.

[G B Young]

Indeed. Most people will have compassion for a group of people suffocating in a lorry, but there will be some who dismiss such victims because they were trying to enter the country illegally. We must remember these people would have been trafficked, and someone is getting rich off of smuggling vulnerable people in search of a better life. They were also victims in that sense. Nobody takes the decision to try to move across the world lightly; it's dangerous, as those 39 people sadly learned.

You'd have to have a heart of stone to dismiss them, even if they were travelling illegally. I quite agree, anyone who is prepared to put themselves in such a horribly vulnerable position is clearly desperate. The way these people have died is unimaginable and I find it deeply upsetting to read about, especially as we start to hear their stories from those who may have been their families.

[Betty Boop]

The driver charged with 39 counts of murder, human trafficking, money laundering, etc etc

[Mr Grieves]

The driver charged with 39 counts of murder, human trafficking, money laundering, etc etc

Manslaughter rather than murder

[Cataplana]

The driver charged with 39 counts of murder, human trafficking, money laundering, etc etc

Sounds like he hasn't been prepared to talk.