Hibs deserved the victory

[worcesterhibby]

A team low on confidence and low on luck deserved the victory on Saturday. We dominated the possession, created by far the best chances and (IMHO) had a perfectly good goal chopped off. Yes we are lacking some drive and confidence in front of goal, but it's absolutely typical that when Doidge does, well and finishes the ref decides to chalk it off because it brushed his fingers (maybe). There penalty was soft and we should have had one at the other end.

[Onceinawhile]

No, we didn't unfortunately.

Were we the better team? Probably, but you only deserve the win if you stick the ball in the net more often than the other team and for the 9th game in a row we haven't done that.

[paddy1875]

It’s got nothing to do with luck anymore. Maybe 1-2 games in the season you can say that but not now.

Shocking recruitment and management sees us where we are at the minute. Nothing else.

We’ve now won 1 game in the league this season. Not luck, we’re just not very good.

I thought it was a penalty for Hamilton all day long, the ball hits doidges hand also before he sticks it in the net. If these happened against us we’d be furious if the ref gives us nothing.


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[Hibbyradge]

It's not a perfectly good goal if it hit his hand. It's a foul.

That's the rule.

We were in front again and couldn't stay there. Same thing every week. It's just not good enough and no amount of should have, could have excuses will change that fact.

People are talking about the next 2 games being "winnable". They shouldn't be "winnable", they should be home bankers.

Saturday was "winnable" too, but we failed.

[green with envy]

When you take off both your wingers and replace them with central midfielders and only bring your CF on with 5 minutes left to play, that for me doesn't deserve a win.

[18Craig75]

I get the feeling that some fans will continue to clutch at straws until it’s too late and we are down.

I was guilty of it myself when Butcher was here. I remember saying to my mates that “We only need one win” until there were no games left and we found ourself in the play off spot.

Personally I’ve enjoyed the success on and off the park way too much since then to sleep walk back to mediocrity and relegation. Although not much I can do, I can only hope that LD or if need be RG takes the appropriate action now, it’s already gone too long.

[H18S NX]

It's not a perfectly good goal if it hit his hand. It's a foul.

That's the rule.

We were in front again and couldn't stay there. Same thing every week. It's just not good enough and no amount of should have, could have excuses will change that fact.

People are talking about the next 2 games being "winnable". They shouldn't be "winnable", they should be home bankers.
:aok:
Saturday was "winnable" too, but we failed.....Spot on m8 :aok:

[worcesterhibby]

I get the feeling that some fans will continue to clutch at straws until it’s too late and we are down.

I was guilty of it myself when Butcher was here. I remember saying to my mates that “We only need one win” until there were no games left and we found ourself in the play off spot.

Personally I’ve enjoyed the success on and off the park way too much since then to sleep walk back to mediocrity and relegation. Although not much I can do, I can only hope that LD or if need be RG takes the appropriate action now, it’s already gone too long.

I'm not clutching at straws nor am I defending the manager or suggesting that all his substitutions during the game were great or his tactics ideal. I'm not even suggesting his signings have been the right ones. Nor have I suggested whether he should be sacked or be retained. However I genuinely feel for the the players as a group, The effort and application has been very decent in the last few weeks in my opinion and they are due a break. A win would make a big difference to them.

Like I said, we were the better team...no more, no less. I hope for the sake of the players confidence that we get a break soon.

Would I like to see a new passionate, intelligent, forward thinking manager in place that could revitalise the team and have us playing fast, attacking football again ? Yes of course I would.

Do I think we are badly under-performing points wise this season and in danger of being drawn into a relegation battle ? Yes I do

Does that mean I spend my time coming on here and slagging off individual players and calling for everyone from the CEO to the Tea lady to get sacked ? NO it doesn't.

[Barman Stanton]

I'm not clutching at straws nor am I defending the manager or suggesting that all his substitutions during the game were great or his tactics ideal. I'm not even suggesting his signings have been the right ones. Nor have I suggested whether he should be sacked or be retained. However I genuinely feel for the the players as a group, The effort and application has been very decent in the last few weeks in my opinion and they are due a break. A win would make a big difference to them.

Like I said, we were the better team...no more, no less. I hope for the sake of the players confidence that we get a break soon.

Would I like to see a new passionate, intelligent, forward thinking manager in place that could revitalise the team and have us playing fast, attacking football again ? Yes of course I would.

Do I think we are badly under-performing points wise this season and in danger of being drawn into a relegation battle ? Yes I do

Does that mean I spend my time coming on here and slagging off individual players and calling for everyone from the CEO to the Tea lady to get sacked ? NO it doesn't.

We really should always be the better team v Hamilton. It’s not really much comfort when we seem incapable of beating anyone in this league.

[hibeerealist]

When you take off both your wingers and replace them with central midfielders and only bring your CF on with 5 minutes left to play, that for me doesn't deserve a win.

Absolutely correct.

[Since452]

A team low on confidence and low on luck deserved the victory on Saturday. We dominated the possession, created by far the best chances and (IMHO) had a perfectly good goal chopped off. Yes we are lacking some drive and confidence in front of goal, but it's absolutely typical that when Doidge does, well and finishes the ref decides to chalk it off because it brushed his fingers (maybe). There penalty was soft and we should have had one at the other end.

Absolutely agree. We aren't playing badly. Last time i saw us play poorly was Killie away in the league. Could, perhaps should have won every game since.

[Heisenberg]

Absolutely agree. We aren't playing badly. Last time i saw us play poorly was Killie away in the league. Could, perhaps should have won every game since.

Yet we haven’t and have instead slipped to 11th place. There’s only so long we can continue waiting on them to win the next one.

[calumhibee1]

Yet we haven’t and have instead slipped to 11th place. There’s only so long we can continue waiting on them to win the next one.

That’s true. This thread was pointing out that we deserved to win though, not that we can’t keep not winning. The neutral pundits all agreed we deserved to win as well.

[Heisenberg]

That’s true. This thread was pointing out that we deserved to win though, not that we can’t keep not winning. The neutral pundits all agreed we deserved to win as well.

I’m a bit sick of it being honest. I don’t overly care if we “deserved” to win anymore. We simply didn’t do enough to win the game, which has been the case on a regular basis this season.

[gorgie greens]

That’s true. This thread was pointing out that we deserved to win though, not that we can’t keep not winning. The neutral pundits all agreed we deserved to win as well.

The thing is were not winning are we, every time we are winning we choke and it is now a habit that we do not want.
I thought at times we controlled the game but as green with envy said ,You take off your 2 wingers and put a CF on with 5 minutes to go is baffling at the very least , to be fair Flo played well on the left but we need two strikers on the pitch, even more so if the one you spent all your money on is not there to score the goals.

[The_Horde]

I’m a bit sick of it being honest. I don’t overly care if we “deserved” to win anymore. We simply didn’t do enough to win the game, which has been the case on a regular basis this season.

The thing that's in question Callum, is what exactly does 'deserving to win' mean in the grand scheme of things?

If we finish the season joint bottom with Hamilton, do we get to stay up ahead of Hamilton because we played better than them maybe, in our head to heads?

[lyonhibs]

"Hibs deserved to win" will go on the metaphorical gravestone of countless Hibs managers.

Fact is, we didn't. Again. We didn't do what was necessary to win. Again.

Everything else is just living in a hypothetical Hecky Universe where, looking at the league table, we can no longer afford to remain for a second longer. Get rid of him pronto IMO.

[calumhibee1]

The thing is were not winning are we, every time we are winning we choke and it is now a habit that we do not want.
I thought at times we controlled the game but as green with envy said ,You take off your 2 wingers and put a CF on with 5 minutes to go is baffling at the very least , to be fair Flo played well on the left but we need two strikers on the pitch, even more so if the one you spent all your money on is not there to score the goals.

Of course we didn’t win, were all frustrated by that. We did deserve the victory though which is more the point of the thread than going over the fact we didn’t win - there’s a whole page of threads regarding that.

[B.H.F.C]

Of course we didn’t win, were all frustrated by that. We did deserve the victory though which is more the point of the thread than going over the fact we didn’t win - there’s a whole page of threads regarding that.

Do you really deserve to win if you have players failing to score from three yards and things like that? If you can’t keep a clean sheet when under little to no pressure?

The only thing we deserve is our current league position because we can’t score enough goals and we can’t keep a clean sheet.

[calumhibee1]

Do you really deserve to win if you have players failing to score from three yards and things like that? If you can’t keep a clean sheet when under little to no pressure?

The only thing we deserve is our current league position because we can’t score enough goals and we can’t keep a clean sheet.

Going by that logic nobody would ever deserve to win, unless they did actually win.

People have said Celtic deserved to win against us yet they were failing to score their chances in that game?

[Barman Stanton]

We just dont seem to have the mental strength to hold on to a lead. Im not convinced we do deserve to win. Especially the way we played after losing a goal.

[B.H.F.C]

Going by that logic nobody would ever deserve to win, unless they did actually win.

People have said Celtic deserved to win against us yet they were failing to score their chances in that game?

I never said they deserved to win against us. I thought we were worth our point. You generally get what you deserve. If you’re incapable of putting the ball in the net, you don’t deserve to win.

Every now and again can be considered unlucky. When it starts happening most weeks it’s just poor play.

[calumhibee1]

I never said they deserved to win against us. I thought we were worth our point. You generally get what you deserve. If you’re incapable of putting the ball in the net, you don’t deserve to win.

Every now and again can be considered unlucky. When it starts happening most weeks it’s just poor play.

Sorry, I didn’t mean you had, others had. To be fair there is something to be said for your last point.

[Scottie]

"We're ***** and we know we are" is a song made especially for us. We always seem to deserve to win but never do so Saturday is another example of that. 1 win in 9 games is unacceptable.

Lets be honest we are just a sub standard team with no money in a sub standard league as much as we dress it up.

Time for Ron to pony up and dig deep because left as it is we are heading straight down to the Championship rapidly.

[InchHibby]

Deserved exactly what we got and bringing on Kamberi for the final three or four minutes was an absolute joke.
Could have got this, could have got that means nothing when it really should be got this, got that.
I’m sorry the man has to go, he should have went when he got rid of Milligan and Bartley at the same time.

[bingo70]

I’ve just got round to watching the highlights.

What was Doidge’s goal chopped off for? Had to watch it with no sound so not sure if I’m missed something but it looked very harsh, suppose in that regards we did deserve to win, if it was as harsh as it looked anyway?

Ultimately he won’t be judged on individual games and we’ll end up where we deserve to be under him.

[mutley]

I agree with most of the above posts. For everything we moan against eg -it was a soft penalty and one end and it wasn't handball at the other, are exactly the same things we would be shouting for it t was the opposing team.

Who we have just now just aren't good enough. Our remaining players seem off the boil, and the new signings who all looked good on paper, are just not up to the job.. And as for the manager?? well, he certainly talks the talk, and even though I wanted him to come good, (like I have done with every manager) Heckingbottom just can't cut it in this league.

People keep saying the next game is a "must win". well every game is a must win for me, and if we don't start picking up some points now, it can only end one way, and that's back in the Championship.

[calumhibee1]

I’ve just got round to watching the highlights.

What was Doidge’s goal chopped off for? Had to watch it with no sound so not sure if I’m missed something but it looked very harsh, suppose in that regards we did deserve to win, if it was as harsh as it looked anyway?

Ultimately he won’t be judged on individual games and we’ll end up where we deserve to be under him.

It was apparently a handball. Pretty inconclusive from the highlights, would be impossible to say either way imo. Maybe the ref had a better angle than the cameras showed it from. Some reckon it was a clear as day handball of course.

[paddy1875]

I’ve just got round to watching the highlights.

What was Doidge’s goal chopped off for? Had to watch it with no sound so not sure if I’m missed something but it looked very harsh, suppose in that regards we did deserve to win, if it was as harsh as it looked anyway?

Ultimately he won’t be judged on individual games and we’ll end up where we deserve to be under him.

Handball from the basketball player


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[My_Wife_Camille]

I’ve just got round to watching the highlights.

What was Doidge’s goal chopped off for? Had to watch it with no sound so not sure if I’m missed something but it looked very harsh, suppose in that regards we did deserve to win, if it was as harsh as it looked anyway?

Ultimately he won’t be judged on individual games and we’ll end up where we deserve to be under him.
Clear as day handball, the best angle for it was in the Sportscene analysis where Michael Stewart is talking about it. The ball is travelling up the way and hits Doidge’s wrist which takes the sting out the ball and directs it away from Doidge and drops sharply to his left. You can also see the spin on the ball change after it hits his wrist.

[Squirrel 1875]

It was apparently a handball. Pretty inconclusive from the highlights, would be impossible to say either way imo. Maybe the ref had a better angle than the cameras showed it from. Some reckon it was a clear as day handball of course.

Nothing inconclusive about it. The ball hits his hand because he failed to control the ball with his foot.

[calumhibee1]

Nothing inconclusive about it. The ball hits his hand because he failed to control the ball with his foot.

The fact that the commentator couldn’t see it, other pundits couldn’t see it and plenty fans couldn’t see it would suggest there is.

[Squirrel 1875]

The fact that the commentator couldn’t see it, other pundits couldn’t see it and plenty fans couldn’t see it would suggest there is.

What are you talking about? Michael Stewart actually pointed it out on sport scene. What can’t you see?

Genuinely curious. Can’t you see how much worse we are under Heckingbottom? Can’t you see where this is heading? Do you think eleventh is ok?

[calumhibee1]

What are you talking about? Michael Stewart actually pointed it out on sport scene. What can’t you see?

Genuinely curious. Can’t you see how much worse we are under Heckingbottom? Can’t you see where this is heading? Do you think eleventh is ok?

I never mentioned Michael Stewart. Someone mentioned a pundit earlier, I’ve no idea what his name was. The commentator on the highlights couldn’t see it either. What can’t I see? An apparent blatant, clear as day handball, that’s what we’re talking about is it not? :confused:

[Squirrel 1875]

I never mentioned Michael Stewart. Someone mentioned a pundit earlier, I’ve no idea what his name was. The commentator on the highlights couldn’t see it either. What can’t I see? An apparent blatant, clear as day handball, that’s what we’re talking about is it not? :confused:

You said pundits etc. I pointed out you were wrong because Michael Stewart spotted it on sportscene.

I’m curious about your wider views on the side at the minute, as you seem to be the last man standing in favour of Heckingbottom. Perhaps I’m wrong, but I’d like to know where you stand on this. How much further do we have to fall before you change your mind on him? Do you even think we are that bad?

[One Day Soon]

This weekly 'if my auntie had baws she'd be my uncle' defence is wearing a bit thin now.

I've long argued that any manager needs probably a minimum of four windows to get his team close to where he wants it to be, and more like six to properly redevelop a squad. However that would be against a background of expectation of - at worst - mid-table irrelevance while the change is going on and the gradual emergence of a discernible style of play.

It appears to me that the signings have been largely botched so far, there is no style of play emerging (other than toothless dullness) and rather than mid table we're flirting with the relegation zone. This is objectively unacceptable for a club with our comparatively strong resources in this league. I'm left asking WTF the targets were that PH was set upon his appointment to the job and why the Board things he's currently on a trajectory to meet them, whatever they were.

[calumhibee1]

You said pundits etc. I pointed out you were wrong because Michael Stewart spotted it on sportscene.

I’m curious about your wider views on the side at the minute, as you seem to be the last man standing in favour of Heckingbottom. Perhaps I’m wrong, but I’d like to know where you stand on this. How much further do we have to fall before you change your mind on him? Do you even think we are that bad?

Ok, pundit, not pundits. The commentator certainly couldn’t see it, neither could numerous posters on here, so the idea that its a clear as day handball is nonsense. If you think it was then fair enough, no way is it clear as day or conclusive from the replays though.

I reckon he bought himself more time after the last 3 decent results before sat. I thought he’d need 7 out of 9 from the next 3 which is still attainable with the most difficult of the 3 out the way. If we don’t win on Saturday then it’ll probably be time for him to go for me.

[blackpoolhibs]

I see we are top of the should have won league. Woooohooooo.

[inglisavhibs]

We really should always be the better team v Hamilton. It’s not really much comfort when we seem incapable of beating anyone in this league.

Our record at Hamilton is 50 games and 18 wins, with Hamilton winning 20.

[#2 Double Tap]

A team low on confidence and low on luck deserved the victory on Saturday. We dominated the possession, created by far the best chances and (IMHO) had a perfectly good goal chopped off. Yes we are lacking some drive and confidence in front of goal, but it's absolutely typical that when Doidge does, well and finishes the ref decides to chalk it off because it brushed his fingers (maybe). There penalty was soft and we should have had one at the other end.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAx-Fqi_zrw

[basehibby]

It's not a perfectly good goal if it hit his hand. It's a foul.

That's the rule.

We were in front again and couldn't stay there. Same thing every week. It's just not good enough and no amount of should have, could have excuses will change that fact.

People are talking about the next 2 games being "winnable". They shouldn't be "winnable", they should be home bankers.

Saturday was "winnable" too, but we failed.

The rule is that handball has to be intentional for it to be a foul - in which case it did look soft to me. It was hard to see even if there was contact never mind whether it was intentional so qualifies as software than creme brulee!

Regardless, it's the latest in a long line of hard luck stories and the old adage that you make your own luck has got to come into play.

[The_Horde]

The rule is that handball has to be intentional for it to be a foul - in which case it did look soft to me. It was hard to see even if there was contact never mind whether it was intentional so qualifies as software than creme brulee!

Regardless, it's the latest in a long line of hard luck stories and the old adage that you make your own luck has got to come into play.

You should look above and see what the rule actually is. We've already had one poster make a fool or himself over the new rules.

[Spike Mandela]

100% we deserved that victory. Bad luck, bad finishing and bad decisions all contributing.

Doidge took his goal well , Hibs have had, at least from my memory, 3 goals chalked off wrongly this season. This decision was certainly questionable.

A 2-1 victory with a late Doidge winner and two home games to come would have had a slightly more, emphasising the slightly, more optimistic mood on here.

[Fife-Hibee]

When is it going to sink in that just like life itself, football isn't fair? Football doesn't reward you with what you "deserve", it rewards you for actually winning, regardless of whether it was "deserved" or not.

We're a club with a long running history of games we "deserved to win". "Deserved to win" isn't the same as "winning" though. Playing well for 90 minutes doesn't guarantee us the points. Playing well for 1 minute and scoring then spending the other 89 minutes successfully keeping the opposition from scoring is perfectly acceptable if it wins games.

[J-C]

Am I the only one on here who's fed up to the back teeth of hearing excuses like, unlucky, we deserved, if only we got this or that decision etc. The fact that we've played ever so slightly better in certain games means nothing unless we get the wins and points. No one expected a point against Celtic, so that's a bonus but we had 2 very winnable games and blew a lead in all 3 games, we got what we deserved, 3 points instead of 7. Shocking misses, handballs and soft penalties happens to many teams, I'm fed up feeling hard done to and sorry for ourselves, if this manager and his players can't hack it then it's time for him and the majority of the players to sod off.

[One Day Soon]

When is it going to sink in that just like life itself, football isn't fair? Football doesn't reward you with what you "deserve", it rewards you for actually winning, regardless of whether it was "deserved" or not.

We're a club with a long running history of games we "deserved to win". "Deserved to win" isn't the same as "winning" though. Playing well for 90 minutes doesn't guarantee us the points. Playing well for 1 minute and scoring then spending the other 89 minutes successfully keeping the opposition from scoring is perfectly acceptable if it wins games.


Indeed. And adherents of a number of political, business and personal projects can all attest to that. Eg (to go off on quite a departure) Al Gore 'deserved' to win his presidential race against George Bush in 2000 but didn't by the slenderest of margins and due to shenanigans in Florida you could describe as the political equivalent of a stonewall penalty being denied. Who knows what difference he might have made to the climate change debate if elected way back then?

The point is I remember very few of the losing cup finals - and certainly not in detail - but the wins burn brightly. 'Deserving' is worth, literally, nothing.

[H18S NX]

The league table does not lie,we deserve to be where we are,we are going nowhere with this clown in charge,and the board are culpable for allowing this to continue.Disgraceful.

[Allant1981]

Am I the only one on here who's fed up to the back teeth of hearing excuses like, unlucky, we deserved, if only we got this or that decision etc. The fact that we've played ever so slightly better in certain games means nothing unless we get the wins and points. No one expected a point against Celtic, so that's a bonus but we had 2 very winnable games and blew a lead in all 3 games, we got what we deserved, 3 points instead of 7. Shocking misses, handballs and soft penalties happens to many teams, I'm fed up feeling hard done to and sorry for ourselves, if this manager and his players can't hack it then it's time for him and the majority of the players to sod off.

Yip I agree, we need to start playing better and winning games

[18Craig75]

Am I the only one on here who's fed up to the back teeth of hearing excuses like, unlucky, we deserved, if only we got this or that decision etc. The fact that we've played ever so slightly better in certain games means nothing unless we get the wins and points. No one expected a point against Celtic, so that's a bonus but we had 2 very winnable games and blew a lead in all 3 games, we got what we deserved, 3 points instead of 7. Shocking misses, handballs and soft penalties happens to many teams, I'm fed up feeling hard done to and sorry for ourselves, if this manager and his players can't hack it then it's time for him and the majority of the players to sod off.

Said it earlier, the excuses and hard luck stories are a mark of how far expectations have fallen. If we want to be competing at the top end of the league and playing in Europe again, we need to as fans keep our expectations high. We’ve gone right back to the boy band days, unfortunately there’s a lot of fans that seem content with this and unwilling to demand more.

Newell’s interview in the paper this morning also hit a nerve. More excuses “we just need the rub of the green”. No - you make your own luck and get out what you put in. Right now, collectively from top to bottom, the club is not doing enough.

[blackpoolhibs]

Am I the only one on here who's fed up to the back teeth of hearing excuses like, unlucky, we deserved, if only we got this or that decision etc. The fact that we've played ever so slightly better in certain games means nothing unless we get the wins and points. No one expected a point against Celtic, so that's a bonus but we had 2 very winnable games and blew a lead in all 3 games, we got what we deserved, 3 points instead of 7. Shocking misses, handballs and soft penalties happens to many teams, I'm fed up feeling hard done to and sorry for ourselves, if this manager and his players can't hack it then it's time for him and the majority of the players to sod off.

I'm not sure if i'm fed up with the excuses, but i am fed up with Hibs. My love for the club seems to be waning at an alarming rate.

I find each bad result less hurtful than it was in the past, so much so i actually laughed when they equalised on Saturday, as i was discussing the game with a mate, and we both said it can only be so long until accies equalise as that's what just happens to Hibs.

Never have i felt so disconnected with the club.

[Hibbyradge]

The rule is that handball has to be intentional for it to be a foul - in which case it did look soft to me. It was hard to see even if there was contact never mind whether it was intentional so qualifies as software than creme brulee!



Intention plays no part in the referee's consideration.

If it hits the attacker's hand before he scores, the goal is disallowed.