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Steve Austin
15-10-2019, 06:53 PM
I see Graeme mathie who I believe we want as George Craig's replacement is been linked to The Rangers now?.
From what I can gather he is good at what he does in regards player recruitment?,well I'm sure this season has left a lot to be desired so far?.:cb
There has been no official word from ER in regards him getting the Gig from George Craig?..:rolleyes:
Maybe we are going down the route of a new team of head of football operations and recruitment.

bingo70
15-10-2019, 06:56 PM
I’m not convinced he is wanted by us to replace George Craig.

If that was the plan would it not have been announced at the same time we announced Craig was retiring?

Brooster
15-10-2019, 07:12 PM
Mathie and Craig looking to get out after having no input whatsoever in our early season transfer activity.

Steve Austin
15-10-2019, 07:13 PM
I agree, I'm not sure why there has been a silence about Craig's replacement,and they could have said Graeme was replacing him?,unless he's unhappy at ER now ?.
The club should clarify his position to stop speculation and tell us what is happening in what is a crucial role at our club.

SMAXXA
15-10-2019, 07:16 PM
Mathie and Craig looking to get out after having no input whatsoever in our early season transfer activity.

Even with Hallberg?

oneone73
15-10-2019, 07:22 PM
Mathie and Craig looking to get out after having no input whatsoever in our early season transfer activity.

Craig is Hecky's boss. Who overruled Craig ... Leeann? Not sure I'm buying this one.

bingo70
15-10-2019, 07:24 PM
I just realised Graham Mathie and Alex Mathie that used to play for Ipswich aren’t the same people.

Does Graham Mathie have any history in football as a player? Not that it’s relevant to the job he’s doing of course, just curious now I’ve realised I was getting him mixed up with someone with a different name.

Billy Whizz
15-10-2019, 07:27 PM
I just realised Graham Mathie and Alex Mathie that used to play for Ipswich aren’t the same people.

Does Graham Mathie have any history in football as a player? Not that it’s relevant to the job he’s doing of course, just curious now I’ve realised I was getting him mixed up with someone with a different name.

He was a senior player in the lower leagues. Alex Ferguson played in the lower leagues, so not to be sniffed at
His dad (Ross) was a player at a few clubs in the late 60’s/early 70’s,and ended up as a Youth Coach at the SFA

B.H.F.C
15-10-2019, 07:28 PM
Craig is Hecky's boss. Who overruled Craig ... Leeann? Not sure I'm buying this one.

Heckingbottom has final say on signings.

Brooster
15-10-2019, 07:33 PM
Craig is Hecky's boss. Who overruled Craig ... Leeann? Not sure I'm buying this one.

You dont need to buy it but it's true. Hecky signed all the early ones without consulting the recruitment department and the results are evident. Halberg, Naismith and Middleton are Craig and Mathie signings.

hfc rd
15-10-2019, 07:33 PM
I see Graeme mathie who I believe we want as George Craig's replacement is been linked to The Rangers now?.
From what I can gather he is good at what he does in regards player recruitment?,well I'm sure this season has left a lot to be desired so far?.:cb
There has been no official word from ER in regards him getting the Gig from George Craig?..:rolleyes:
Maybe we are going down the route of a new team of head of football operations and recruitment.

Surprised. I thought they had just hired a guy from Southampton or is this for a different role?

Heisenberg
15-10-2019, 07:36 PM
You dont need to buy it but it's true. Hecky signed all the early ones without consulting the recruitment department and the results are evident. Halberg, Naismith and Middleton are Craig and Mathie signings.

If that’s true then there’s no point in having this supposedly amazing football structure if the manager is allowed to do deals outwith it. We should be hiring a manager to work within our parameters. LD has failed on that front by the looks of it.

Winston Ingram
15-10-2019, 07:37 PM
He was a senior player in the lower leagues. Alex Ferguson played in the lower leagues, so not to be sniffed at
His dad (Ross) was a player at a few clubs in the late 60’s/early 70’s,and ended up as a Youth Coach at the SFA

Alex Ferguson also played in the top division

tamig
15-10-2019, 07:41 PM
If that’s true then there’s no point in having this supposedly amazing football structure if the manager is allowed to do deals outwith it. We should be hiring a manager to work within our parameters. LD has failed on that front by the looks of it.

Thats the way just about every club in this country works. A lot of clubs have recruitment teams but the manager/HC always has the final say. As others have said Stubbs utilised the model to the full.

Smartie
15-10-2019, 07:42 PM
As long as it works, I don't care what they do.

It doesn't sound like an unreasonable approach - having a recruitment structure in place but allowing for flexibility so a manager can have a say in bringing in the odd player of his own.

Obviously when you end up with a squad like ours, questions need to be asked about what TF is going on and what we need to do differently to do better.

It would be very interesting to know what has led to each of our arrivals coming to the club, going all the way back to Stubbs' arrival, and assessing the relative successes of the recruitment team and each manager.

B.H.F.C
15-10-2019, 07:43 PM
If that’s true then there’s no point in having this supposedly amazing football structure if the manager is allowed to do deals outwith it. We should be hiring a manager to work within our parameters. LD has failed on that front by the looks of it.

Disagree. The manager still has to have the final say on who is going to be in his team. The recruitment team is a scouting and administration function to support the guy in charge. It at least that’s how I’d look at it.

Smartie
15-10-2019, 07:46 PM
Thats the way just about every club in this country works. A lot of clubs have recruitment teams but the manager/HC always has the final say. As others have said Stubbs utilised the model to the full.

In defence of our other managers, that structure is probably a bit easier to work within when you're being offered players like Scott Allan, Dylan McGeouch, Liam Henderson, John McGinn, Liam Fontaine, Darren McGregor and Dominic Malonga to work with (without knowing who and what has been offered to our subsequent managers).

lyonhibs
15-10-2019, 07:53 PM
You dont need to buy it but it's true. Hecky signed all the early ones without consulting the recruitment department and the results are evident. Halberg, Naismith and Middleton are Craig and Mathie signings.

But how did he actually sign them in terms of getting them on the dotted line? It's not him responsible for contracts so if Doidge et al really are purely his desired signings with no official scouting then that's a massive structural failing from LD et al

B.H.F.C
15-10-2019, 08:01 PM
But how did he actually sign them in terms of getting them on the dotted line? It's not him responsible for contracts so if Doidge et al really are purely his desired signings with no official scouting then that's a massive structural failing from LD et al

Is it really? Is the structure not there to support him? He has the final say, he said he wanted them, they then make it happen.

Like Lennon getting the likes of Ambrose and Marciano in. He said he wanted them, the club did it. It’s just that they were a lot better than the quality of player Heckingbottom wants.

Brooster
15-10-2019, 08:12 PM
Is it really? Is the structure not there to support him? He has the final say, he said he wanted them, they then make it happen.

Like Lennon getting the likes of Ambrose and Marciano in. He said he wanted them, the club did it. It’s just that they were a lot better than the quality of player Heckingbottom wants.

To a certain degree. The recruitment department still have to carry our due diligence on each player. They specifically advised the club NOT to sign two of Heckys targets.

lyonhibs
15-10-2019, 08:16 PM
Is it really? Is the structure not there to support him? He has the final say, he said he wanted them, they then make it happen.

Like Lennon getting the likes of Ambrose and Marciano in. He said he wanted them, the club did it. It’s just that they were a lot better than the quality of player Heckingbottom wants.

There's a difference between the final say and the entire say, that's my point. Did nobody from the club so any even light scouting/research into Ambrose or especially Marciano before they were brought in? I genuinely don't know.

SMAXXA
15-10-2019, 08:19 PM
To a certain degree. The recruitment department still have to carry our due diligence on each player. They specifically advised the club NOT to sign two of Heckys targets.

Who?

Brooster
15-10-2019, 08:20 PM
Who?

I'm not willing to say.

DarlingtonHibee
15-10-2019, 08:21 PM
There's a difference between the final say and the entire say, that's my point. Did nobody from the club so any even light scouting/research into Ambrose or especially Marciano before they were brought in? I genuinely don't know.

You genuinely don't know...

The 90+2
15-10-2019, 08:21 PM
Is it really? Is the structure not there to support him? He has the final say, he said he wanted them, they then make it happen.

Like Lennon getting the likes of Ambrose and Marciano in. He said he wanted them, the club did it. It’s just that they were a lot better than the quality of player Heckingbottom wants.

They can’t just be over ruled on any old ***** otherwise there’s no point in having that whole department- which seems to have been the case this summer and last summer.

Smartie
15-10-2019, 08:21 PM
Ambrose and Marciano are fairly high-profile and whilst possibly expensive, would have been fairly safe bets in terms of quality so I could understand the recruitment team being on board with these signings.

Heckingbottom has (had?) a reputation for unearthing and working well with unknown players from the English lower leagues and I suspect this will have appealed to LD - working with cheaper players (given we've probably shelled out a fair bit during the Lennon era, for one reason or another). I reckon she's giving PH time with the players of his own selection to see if he can do something but the signs aren't good. I can understand the recruitment team being less happy with players they know less about (or know about but rate less) being signed if they suspect they are not of the required quality.

It will be very interesting to see where we go from here.

The 90+2
15-10-2019, 08:22 PM
I'm not willing to say.

There’s no danger you’re not telling the truth either.

bingo70
15-10-2019, 08:24 PM
Ambrose and Marciano are fairly high-profile and whilst possibly expensive, would have been fairly safe bets in terms of quality so I could understand the recruitment team being on board with these signings.

Heckingbottom has (had?) a reputation for unearthing and working well with unknown players from the English lower leagues and I suspect this will have appealed to LD - working with cheaper players (given we've probably shelled out a fair bit during the Lennon era, for one reason or another). I reckon she's giving PH time with the players of his own selection to see if he can do something but the signs aren't good. I can understand the recruitment team being less happy with players they know less about (or know about but rate less) being signed if they suspect they are not of the required quality.

It will be very interesting to see where we go from here.

Wonder if that’s one of the reasons Heckingbottom is looking like he’s trying to force the issue with Newell, like he needs to prove he’s better than what he’s shown so far.

FWIW if this is the route we’re going down we might be better looking abroad for a manager that knows how to function in this system. Assuming of course this is more common abroad than maybe it is here.

bingo70
15-10-2019, 08:31 PM
More smoke and mirrors, must be great to post, without any evidence, oh sorry you have club source 🙄

Love it when people ask for evidence on here.

It’s a football forum, not a court of law, what sort of evidence you after?

Since452
15-10-2019, 08:33 PM
Mathie and Craig looking to get out after having no input whatsoever in our early season transfer activity.

If they had input in Brian Graham, Neil Earldley, Nelom, Mavrais, Big Dave, Rherras, Hyndman and Bigiriama im quite pleased.

B.H.F.C
15-10-2019, 08:37 PM
They can’t just be over ruled on any old ***** otherwise there’s no point in having that whole department- which seems to have been the case this summer and last summer.

Of course there is a point to having it. Who else would do the PowerPoint presentations to send to prospective signings?

Seriously though, and not just based on Brooster’s post above, I think you could look at the signings and ascertain straight away who are his and who fits in more with the previous type of signings we’ve made so they’re still impacting in some way.

BoomtownHibees
15-10-2019, 08:46 PM
I'm not willing to say.

Vela is one that I’ve saw mentioned on here. Newell would be my guess for the other

oldbutdim
15-10-2019, 08:53 PM
Vela is one that I’ve saw mentioned on here. Newell would be my guess for the other

I'd put my mortgage on it being Newell; it's a certainty.

Fair enough, I don't actually have a mortgage because the house is paid up, but that's entirely irrelevant.

J-C
15-10-2019, 08:55 PM
I'm not willing to say.


I'll say, I was told Vela and Newell.

Vela has taken an age to catch up fitness wise and still looks slower then a week in jail, Newell just looks like he's up here for a holiday, hardly plays except the last 10 mins of each game, just to get his appearance money.

JimBHibees
15-10-2019, 09:14 PM
I'll say, I was told Vela and Newell.

Vela has taken an age to catch up fitness wise and still looks slower then a week in jail, Newell just looks like he's up here for a holiday, hardly plays except the last 10 mins of each game, just to get his appearance money.

Actually think Vela will continue to improve. Not played for a while before he joined us.

angus hibby
15-10-2019, 09:19 PM
I'll say, I was told Vela and Newell.

Vela has taken an age to catch up fitness wise and still looks slower then a week in jail, Newell just looks like he's up here for a holiday, hardly plays except the last 10 mins of each game, just to get his appearance money.

Newell has been an unused sub on at least 3 occasions that I can think of. He started the first 2 league games IIRC, so can only have come on as a sub on 2, maybe 3 occasions.

Stuart93
15-10-2019, 09:19 PM
I’m not sure it’s a great sign there’s been no announcement regarding someone replacing George Craig...I hope the wheels aren’t falling off with regards to the structure put in place at the club post relegation

Jones28
15-10-2019, 09:24 PM
I'll say, I was told Vela and Newell.

Vela has taken an age to catch up fitness wise and still looks slower then a week in jail, Newell just looks like he's up here for a holiday, hardly plays except the last 10 mins of each game, just to get his appearance money.

There was something on a Bolton forum about Vela enjoying the party lifestyle too.

Jones28
15-10-2019, 09:27 PM
If they had input in Brian Graham, Neil Earldley, Nelom, Mavrais, Big Dave, Rherras, Hyndman and Bigiriama im quite pleased.

6 of those you mention were on short term deals as either cover or extended trials. You can’t bash them for giving players a chance to earn an extended deal. If they were dishing out 3/4 year deals on them that’s fair enough.

ian cruise
15-10-2019, 09:33 PM
Fair bit of revisionism going on re:Vela. It's easy to be critical of his recent firm but when he signed almost everyone was positive about it with comments saying they couldn't believe we've signed such a talent, etc. The only person I remember who was overly critical was BoltonHibee and in his defense he was one of the few who'd actually seen a lot of him playing.

If the papers had release news that we were after him in advance and it never happened he'd be another in the list of players the club never showed enough ambition to get, similar to Ojo.

matty_f
15-10-2019, 09:35 PM
I'll say, I was told Vela and Newell.

Vela has taken an age to catch up fitness wise and still looks slower then a week in jail, Newell just looks like he's up here for a holiday, hardly plays except the last 10 mins of each game, just to get his appearance money.

There have been a few posts with that accusation and also hinting to him only getting a game because he's Hecky's mate. Not really helpful, and I don't think the allegations stand up to much scrutiny.

Hibbyradge
15-10-2019, 09:40 PM
Fair bit of revisionism going on re:Vela. It's easy to be critical of his recent firm but when he signed almost everyone was positive about it with comments saying they couldn't believe we've signed such a talent, etc. The only person I remember who was overly critical was BoltonHibee and in his defense he was one of the few who'd actually seen a lot of him playing.

If the papers had release news that we were after him in advance and it never happened he'd be another in the list of players the club never showed enough ambition to get, similar to Ojo.

Yes, people have changed their tune about Vela, but it's not really revisionism.

Hopes were high when he signed, he's been observed playing, and hopes have been dashed.

There was a lot of revisionism after folk saw Efe Ambrose play for us too! :wink:

jacomo
15-10-2019, 09:45 PM
There have been a few posts with that accusation and also hinting to him only getting a game because he's Hecky's mate. Not really helpful, and I don't think the allegations stand up to much scrutiny.


The rumours may well be just that, but they flourish because of a disconnect between the fans and the team.

Ditto the discussion on another thread about Doidge and whether he’s been out drinking or not.

The manager and players are in a hole and although we’ve picked up some results recently the team is far from convincing.

They’ve got it all to prove this season and the grumbling will continue until they do.

ian cruise
15-10-2019, 09:46 PM
Yes, people have changed their tune about Vela, but it's not really revisionism.

Hopes were high when he signed, he's been observed playing, and hopes have been dashed.

There was a lot of revisionism after folk saw Efe Ambrose play for us too! :wink:

I think there is an element of revisionism when we're consistently seeing criticism of our recruitment team and strategy. I don't disagree the signings have underperformed but the recruitment team signed exactly the type of players we keep seeing other clubs making and our fans ask why we can't do the same. We had a purple patch where more signings were good than bad around the cup win but that's not the norm for many teams.

It's similar to when we were lucky enough to get the golden generation through our youth set up then everyone assumed we'd started to do something disastrously different as we weren't churning out the same quality year after year.

J-C
15-10-2019, 09:48 PM
There have been a few posts with that accusation and also hinting to him only getting a game because he's Hecky's mate. Not really helpful, and I don't think the allegations stand up to much scrutiny.


Wee bit sarcasm Matty, just trying to figure out Heckingbottom's mindset when it came to bringing him on as a sub for 4 out of the last 5 games, always for Hallberg.

ian cruise
15-10-2019, 09:52 PM
Wee bit sarcasm Matty, just trying to figure out Heckingbottom's mindset when it came to bringing him on as a sub for 4 out of the last 5 games, always for Hallberg.

Maybe it's because we spent a decent amount of money on his wages and though the management accept he's not hit the ground running enough to be starting games, they're hoping is he gets some run outs he'll learn to adapt to Scottish football and grow in confidence?

Or maybe it is a Producers-esque strategy by Newell and Heckingbottom to make Hibs so poor the both get sacked with a bumper pay out?

I know which I think is less likely.

ancient hibee
15-10-2019, 09:53 PM
It’s not quite so cut and dried with the manager/head coach having the final say.I believe that the club will never bring in a player that the coach doesn’ t want but it may be that the coach will say he must have such and such player but the club will tell him no.

J-C
15-10-2019, 10:01 PM
Fair bit of revisionism going on re:Vela. It's easy to be critical of his recent firm but when he signed almost everyone was positive about it with comments saying they couldn't believe we've signed such a talent, etc. The only person I remember who was overly critical was BoltonHibee and in his defense he was one of the few who'd actually seen a lot of him playing.

If the papers had release news that we were after him in advance and it never happened he'd be another in the list of players the club never showed enough ambition to get, similar to Ojo.


TBH most knew little about him apart from the interest from Liverpool and Man U around 4 years ago but looking back at some news clippings, it's obvious he's never reached the potential shown when he was younger, I think that's why h's been a disappointment since he came in.

ian cruise
15-10-2019, 10:07 PM
TBH most knew little about him apart from the interest from Liverpool and Man U around 4 years ago but looking back at some news clippings, it's obvious he's never reached the potential shown when he was younger, I think that's why h's been a disappointment since he came in.

It's not really Vela's fault if people had unrealistic expectations of him based on 4 years ago though, also he's only been playing at this level for about 2 months, he could still come good.

I don't think our recruitment has been that bad, I think how our manager is using the players that we have is the problem. Unfortunately until we have a turn around on form or a new manager this constant bad feeling towards the team/club that is floating over Hibs right now is not going anywhere.

SMAXXA
15-10-2019, 10:23 PM
There was something on a Bolton forum about Vela enjoying the party lifestyle too.

So that’s him and Doidge party animals now lol

Steve Austin
15-10-2019, 10:58 PM
Surprised. I thought they had just hired a guy from Southampton or is this for a different role?



Yes,Ross Wilson is the guy?.He wants Mathie in his new look recruitment team at Ibrox.
If we lose both him and Craig its a whole new team at ER:confused:

oldbutdim
15-10-2019, 11:01 PM
So that’s him and Doidge party animals now lol

Newell's off the hook I guess.

He'd turn up the wrong party or fail to get past the doorman.

hibsboy69
16-10-2019, 09:15 PM
Mathie and Craig looking to get out after having no input whatsoever in our early season transfer activity.

Well from what I've been told Mathie will be getting George Craig's job !

So one of us is wrong ! :greengrin

jodjam
16-10-2019, 09:29 PM
Newell's off the hook I guess.

He'd turn up the wrong party or fail to get past the doorman.

He was golfing today at Archerfield with Boyle and Whittaker

Brooster
16-10-2019, 09:55 PM
Well from what I've been told Mathie will be getting George Craig's job !

So one of us is wrong ! :greengrin

I hope you are right. He was certainly looking elsewhere before George announced his departure.

Brightside
17-10-2019, 12:15 PM
Vela is one that I’ve saw mentioned on here. Newell would be my guess for the other

Vela was but forward by the dept....even before Hecky.

Brightside
17-10-2019, 12:16 PM
I’m not sure it’s a great sign there’s been no announcement regarding someone replacing George Craig...I hope the wheels aren’t falling off with regards to the structure put in place at the club post relegation

I think we will see a host of announcements at the AGM.

PatHead
17-10-2019, 12:30 PM
I think we will see a host of announcements at the AGM.

Hopefully before then. Be good to get some certainty and momentum about the place again.

The 90+2
17-10-2019, 12:38 PM
I think we will see a host of announcements at the AGM.

I don’t think the AGM will be the time for announcements and resignations etc so I’m thinking in the lead up. Something must be brewing behind the scenes.

Brightside
17-10-2019, 12:51 PM
I don’t think the AGM will be the time for announcements and resignations etc so I’m thinking in the lead up. Something must be brewing behind the scenes.

Yep there is a lot of stuff going on.

DarlingtonHibee
17-10-2019, 01:06 PM
Yep there is a lot of stuff going on.

Like what?

hibsboy69
25-10-2019, 06:49 PM
Mathie and Craig looking to get out after having no input whatsoever in our early season transfer activity.

Oh Broonster........this hasn’t aged well !

I told you so !!!!!!!! 👍🏻😁