Would you be relieved if we got a deal to leave?

[Hibbyradge]

I want to stay in the EU. If Scotland becomes independent, I'd want it to join.

I am terrified of a no-deal, so much do that I am suffering from mild anxiety. I have to switch the TV off whenever I see Johnson, Farage etc spouting their guff and I have to ignore the right wing newspapers.

So, the news that there is a possibility of a deal being struck is something of comfort to me, but I'm still conflicted.

How does everyone else feel?

[JeMeSouviens]

I want to stay in the EU. If Scotland becomes independent, I'd want it to join.

I am terrified of a no-deal, so much do that I am suffering from mild anxiety. I have to switch the TV off whenever I see Johnson, Farage etc spouting their guff and I have to ignore the right wing newspapers.

So, the news that there is a possibility of a deal being struck is something of comfort to me, but I'm still conflicted.

How does everyone else feel?

Exactly the same as you. I will be slightly relieved to avoid no deal but annoyed with myself for being relieved because I know this version of Brexit is awful. If the chatter is correct, then this is a soft Brexit for NI but much, much harder for the rest of the UK.

I think there's a decent chance that a deal will only pass the HoC with a confirmatory ref#2 attached. Pretty sure they're going to need Labour support as the DUP/ERG nutters peel off. I doubt many in Labour will support it as it stands, so a ref#2 might get forced on.

[Mr Grieves]

There's no details of what this deal is, but opinion from journalists suggest it will still be the hardest of hard Brexit's, that will still be hugely damaging to our economy and allow the tories to cut workers rights, environmental regulations etc. I'm still anxious.

[Cataplana]

Regardless of a deal, my biggest anxiety is the dark places a section of the British people are prepared to go. The genie of xenophobia and hatred will be hard to put back in the bottle.

As a country, England has regressed 50 years in terms of the language and attitudes they are prepared to accept, or rather, admit to.

[JeMeSouviens]

There's no details of what this deal is, but opinion from journalists suggest it will still be the hardest of hard Brexit's, that will still be hugely damaging to our economy and allow the tories to cut workers rights, environmental regulations etc. I'm still anxious.

:agree:

We'll be boiled frogs in this deal rather than run over ones.

At least a deal would give us a transition in which we might vote for Indy which would give us the chance to be maimed but still hopping with a chance of recovery frogs. (Have I taken this frog metaphor too far? :greengrin)

[southsider]

[QUOTE=JeMeSouviens;5953995]Exactly the same as you. I will be slightly relieved to avoid no deal but annoyed with myself for being relieved because I know this version of Brexit is awful. If the chatter is correct, then this is a soft Brexit for NI but much, much harder for the rest of the UK.

I think there's a decent chance that a deal will only pass the HoC with a confirmatory ref#2 attached. Pretty sure they're going to need Labour support as the DUP/ERG nutters peel off. I doubt many in Labour will support it as it stands, so a ref#2 might get forced on.[/
I had a run in with the Brexit Party at the entrance to subway that leads to Daley Rd last Sat. None of them would answer when I asked ‘ why would any sane person vote for something that would make us poorer ?
I have a flat in Spain and hoped to spend a bit more time there on retirement but looks like I will have to apply for Spanish Residency. As an EU citizen I had no problem but the crazy English have thrown the bath out along with the dirty water.

[Ozyhibby]

It sounds like a terrible deal for Scotland. Out the SM and CU and losing out on investment to NI because they have access to both.


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[Smartie]

It sounds like a terrible deal for Scotland. Out the SM and CU and losing out on investment to NI because they have access to both.


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It's a disaster for Scotland.

Hopefully it isn't allowed to do too much damage to us before the Scottish people wake up and do something about it.

[Ozyhibby]

It's a disaster for Scotland.

Hopefully it isn't allowed to do too much damage to us before the Scottish people wake up and do something about it.

Also means a hard border with England if we go independent which will be a very hard sell.


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[Ozyhibby]

Why the deal is worse than May’s deal.
https://twitter.com/chrisgiles_/status/1182595006382645249?s=21


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[Hibrandenburg]

Regardless of a deal, my biggest anxiety is the dark places a section of the British people are prepared to go. The genie of xenophobia and hatred will be hard to put back in the bottle.

As a country, England has regressed 50 years in terms of the language and attitudes they are prepared to accept, or rather, admit to.

This is my biggest worry. Any deal will be seen by many as capitulation and the source of all our future woes. A hard Brexit would have at least proven to those who are resistant to any kind of expert advice that Brexit was a bad move, whereas any deal will only ensure the continuation of the EU myths and prolong the fuel supply for radges like Farage.

[Northernhibee]

Regardless of a deal, my biggest anxiety is the dark places a section of the British people are prepared to go. The genie of xenophobia and hatred will be hard to put back in the bottle.

As a country, England has regressed 50 years in terms of the language and attitudes they are prepared to accept, or rather, admit to.

All of the UKs soft influence in Europe is in tatters too.

If I slept with my best mates wife and then six months later went “It’s OK, I don’t fancy her anymore, are we mates again?” I wouldn’t expect to be welcomed back with open arms at all.

[Antifa Hibs]

Will a deal likely include free movement of people?

[Moulin Yarns]

Will a deal likely include free movement of people?

Absolutely not. That was the whole point for large numbers of voters.

[The Harp Awakes]

Also means a hard border with England if we go independent which will be a very hard sell.


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It will certainly need sorting out but it won't be anywhere near as big a deal as the Irish hard border issue. There no border tensions, no recent history of conflict and far fewer land crossing points. Also by the time we win the independence vote and liberation day is upon us, technology will have advanced several years which will ease the effort required in customs checks.

[Ozyhibby]

It will certainly need sorting out but it won't be anywhere near as big a deal as the Irish hard border issue. There no border tensions, no recent history of conflict and far fewer land crossing points. Also by the time we win the independence vote and liberation day is upon us, technology will have advanced several years which will ease the effort required in customs checks.

Fair point. Johnson and co would surely be in favour of alternative arrangements?


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[WeeRussell]

I'll be disappointed if Scotland don't end up independent after all this, regardless of what deal/no deal we/they end up with.

[Antifa Hibs]

Absolutely not. That was the whole point for large numbers of voters.

So what's the main point of a deal? Tariff free and check-free goods?

[Just_Jimmy]

I'm the same as Radge.

I'm anti Brexit in the strongest terms. I literally wake up feeling anxious about it all which is ridiculous tbh.

I do not under any circumstances want Brexit. The whole concept is utter stupidity and I do not and cannot respect anyone who voted for it and now still believes it to be best.

It's suicide.

At same time I'm just so utterly fatigued with it all. I just feel any argument to stay is pointless cos the people who can stop it won't lift a finger to stop it.



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[Moulin Yarns]

So what's the main point of a deal? Tariff free and check-free goods?

Ask a thousand leave voters and expect to get 999 different answers.

[Fife-Hibee]

Any deal that gets hammered together will be merely rhetoric, it will be a hard brexit regardless of how they try and spin it.

[Fife-Hibee]

Also means a hard border with England if we go independent which will be a very hard sell.


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Our neighbours are bams. Time to put up the fence.

[Smartie]

Our neighbours are bams. Time to put up the fence.

Are you suggesting we build a wall and make them pay for it?

[Ozyhibby]

Are you suggesting we build a wall and make them pay for it?

There are only about 6 roads that cross the border, surely we can get away with something half arsed?


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[Moulin Yarns]

There are only about 6 roads that cross the border, surely we can get away with something half arsed?


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Surprisingly a fair few more when you take all the B and unclassified roads into account. Around 32 as far as I could see.

[Future17]

There are only about 6 roads that cross the border, surely we can get away with something half arsed?


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That would be a cheek.

[Cataplana]

Will a deal likely include free movement of people?

The implications of that are the biggest concern to me.

Firstly, my ability to move around Europe would be reduced; secondly the doors are open to non Europeans to come into Britain and drive wages down.

[weecounty hibby]

I will be very disappointed to leave the EU under any circumstances. This bit about folk being tired of it all and just want it to be over is exactly where Johnson and Reese Mogg want you to be. It should never be a case of well let's just get it over with as it's dragged on a bit. I heard the chair of the SCoC this morning and he said he hoped we would get the best deal possible. When asked what the best deal possible would be he said "Something like we have now would be the best!!!" We all know that, business know that, the ****ing politicians know that, the EU know that, one eyed Martians know that so let's not just roll over and accept a deal, no matter what it looks like, that will make Scotland worse off. If/when it happens Independence is a must for us. Especially if NI get some kind of special deal to help smooth the way.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Our neighbours are bams. Time to put up the fence.

A lot of English nationalists would like to rebuild Hadrian's wall as a border to keep the pesky Jocks out, something you often see them say on social media. I'm all for that coz it would hand a significant chunk of England to Scotland :greengrin

In all seriousness though a deal which hands N Ireland soft access to the EU can only be a bad thing for Scotland, why would any company wanting to set up in the north of Britain choose Scotland or northern England for that matter with a hard border to cross when they could set up in N Ireland with practically unfettered access to Europe.

Deal or no deal from my point of view the sooner this **** is done and dusted the better so we can get on with the job of becoming independent. As an SNP voter and independence supporter its beginning to bug me just a tad that the party I vote for as seemingly the best vehicle for gaining us independence seems more intent on saving the UK from itself than making full use of the gift this Brexit nonsense has handed to it.

[LaMotta]

Also means a hard border with England if we go independent which will be a very hard sell.


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This is a key point. Any form of Brexit actually makes Scottish Independence less attractive.

The only thing that can make me relieved is if we have a second Brexit referendum and stop it. Then we can go for Independence.

Despite the positive noises about chances of a deal, I still dont think there will be a deal.

Because anything that is pallatable to the EU and Ireland is unlikely to be acceptable to tory hard brexiteers and DUP.

And vice versa.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

IMO a no deal Brexit makes Independence a certainty. The question then maybe becomes , what do your fear most of out those two?

[LaMotta]

IMO a no deal Brexit makes Independence a certainty. The question then maybe becomes , what do your fear most of out those two?

I think it makes Indpendence less likely.

[Moulin Yarns]

The implications of that are the biggest concern to me.

Firstly, my ability to move around Europe would be reduced; secondly the doors are open to non Europeans to come into Britain and drive wages down.

How? Have you heard of the minimum wage and national living wage? What line of work are you in that is likely to be at threat from lower wages because of an increase in potential employees? Do you have a contract, if so your salary is protected by the terms of your contract.

Which flood of non Europeans do you see coming to this basket case of a country and what jobs do you expect them to take?

Hang on, I've got it, you're a gypsy traveller, who sells pegs, picks tatties and soft fruit and you feel threatened.

Get a grip!

[Hibbyradge]

That would be a cheek.

:thumbsup:

[Fife-Hibee]

I think it makes Indpendence less likely.

Which is a completely baseless statement.

[LaMotta]

Which is a completely baseless statement.

You dont think a no deal complicates the argument for Independence?

[Peevemor]

You dont think a no deal complicates the argument for Independence?I think it works both ways, but it makes independence less likely than a soft Brexit IMO.

A hard border with England would definitely send some undecideds toward a no vote.

[LaMotta]

I think it works both ways, but it makes independence less likely than a soft Brexit IMO.

A hard border with England would definitely send some undecideds toward a no vote.

:agree:

[Moulin Yarns]

I think it works both ways, but it makes independence less likely than a soft Brexit IMO.

A hard border with England would definitely send some undecideds toward a no vote.

I'm struggling to see where the hard border comes from. Is Brexit not having a 'border' in the Irish Sea? Is the 'border' not some paperwork away from the actual border? If so then an Iscotland would have exactly the same, surely?

[Hibbyradge]

I'm struggling to see where the hard border comes from. Is Brexit not having a 'border' in the Irish Sea? Is the 'border' not some paperwork away from the actual border? If so then an Iscotland would have exactly the same, surely?

That's what we need to find out.

I don't understand how an iScotland in the EU could avoid a hard border with England out of the EU.

[Moulin Yarns]

That's what we need to find out.

I don't understand how an iScotland in the EU could avoid a hard border with England out of the EU.

D.

Think back 4 years and we were being told an iScotland would need border posts at england, but now we are getting the NI situation there is a precedent, and whatever is decided there will also work here (I know your in York but you get the idea :wink:) Imagine if Yorkshire got independence :greengrin:rotflmao:

[Since90+2]

No deal will never happen and at no point was it ever going to happen. Although it might not seem like it at times we have smart enough people in various positions in Government and the Civil Service who realise it would be hugely damaging to the country.

The fact that people are now leaning towards the view that it's better to get something rather than no deal has probably been the plan since Johnson took office. A last minute deal also helps the EU as it's made the likelihood of another country opting to leave pretty slim as Brexit has not exactly been viewed as a smooth process.

It seems the plan by Cummings and Johnson has worked. Remainers will now be happy with some sort of deal and leave voters will have won because we are leaving.

[Northernhibee]

The best deal is the one we have enjoyed for the last few decades.

Unwilling to compromise on my remain stance to be quite frank.

[Since90+2]

The best deal is the one we have enjoyed for the last few decades.

Unwilling to compromise on my remain stance to be quite frank.

Exactly. This whole thing is to make people who voted remain , like those on this thread, think that it's better than no deal and accept it. No deal would never have happened.

[Hibbyradge]

D.

Think back 4 years and we were being told an iScotland would need border posts at england, but now we are getting the NI situation there is a precedent, and whatever is decided there will also work here (I know your in York but you get the idea :wink:) Imagine if Yorkshire got independence :greengrin:rotflmao:

I realise that, but we don't know what the set up will be yet. Which is why I said we need to find that out first.

I can't imagine Yorkshire getting independence. Sir Geoffrey Boycott as prime minister :bitchy:

Mind you, a lot of folk here would welcome it and it has the same population as Scotland so, in theory, it could work. :hmmm:

[Hibbyradge]

Exactly. This whole thing is to make people who voted remain , like those on this thread, think that it's better than no deal and accept it. No deal would never have happened.

Who said anything about accepting anything?

The people posting on this thread would prefer a deal to no-deal but we would all prefer the status quo.

There's never been a Cummings/Johnson plan like the one you're so sure exists, because it doesn't matter what remainers think unless there's a 2nd referendum.

If there is, I'm sure we'll all be voting remain.

[Moulin Yarns]

I realise that, but we don't know what the set up will be yet. Which is why I said we need to find that out first.

I can't imagine Yorkshire getting independence. Sir Geoffrey Boycott as prime minister :bitchy:

Mind you, it has the same population as Scotland so, in theory, it could work. :hmmm:

Like

[Since90+2]

Who said anything about accepting anything?

The people posting on this thread would prefer a deal to no-deal but we would all prefer the status quo.

There's never been a Cummings/Johnson plan like the one you're so sure exists, because it doesn't matter what remainers think unless there's a 2nd referendum.

If there is, I'm sure we'll all be voting remain.

Sorry , it wasn't the intention to make it sound like a dig at posters.

I stand by my post though that this has been the plan since Johnson came to power and if Remain MPs remain resolute no deal won't happen. If they vote for the deal then it's obviously "game over" from a remain perspective.

[Hibbyradge]

Sorry , it wasn't the intention to make it sound like a dig at posters.

I stand by my post though that this has been the plan since Johnson came to power and if Remain MPs remain resolute no deal won't happen. If they vote for the deal then it's obviously "game over" from a remain perspective.

We don't have a deal agreed with the EU yet and the one that is being suggested won't get DUP or ERG support. Labour will whip against it so it's as unlikely to succeed as May's was.

Some plan.

[Hibbyradge]

Next to no chance of a deal by the deadline, if at all.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/11/boris-johnson-no-chance-brexit-deal-deadline-irish-border

[Since90+2]

We don't have a deal agreed with the EU yet and the one that is being suggested won't get DUP or ERG support. Labour will whip against it so it's as unlikely to succeed as May's was.

Some plan.

I think you'll be surprised when it comes to the DUP and the ERG. The majority of Tory rebels will back a deal and then you have Kinnock and his Labour chums. It will be close.

[Hibbyradge]

I think you'll be surprised when it comes to the DUP and the ERG. The majority of Tory rebels will back a deal and then you have Kinnock and his Labour chums. It will be close.

I'd be more than surprised. I'd be astounded. :hilarious

The hardliners will vote against anything which keeps NI in the customs union and the DUP won't accept being set aside from rUK.

The EU won't accept the DUP having the right to pull the plug unilaterally, and obviously, I included Sinn Fein in that.

I have no idea what you mean when you say that about Kinnock. He's as pro-EU and anti-Brexit as they come.

[beensaidbefore]

The implications of that are the biggest concern to me.

Firstly, my ability to move around Europe would be reduced; secondly the doors are open to non Europeans to come into Britain and drive wages down.

Does your last point not echo the concern of many leave voters, albeit their concern was EU migrants driving wages down? :confused:

[Since90+2]

I'd be more than surprised. I'd be astounded. :hilarious

The hardliners will vote against anything which keeps NI in the customs union and the DUP won't accept being set aside from rUK.

The EU won't accept the DUP having the right to pull the plug unilaterally, and obviously, I included Sinn Fein in that.

I have no idea what you mean when you say that about Kinnock. He's as pro-EU and anti-Brexit as they come.

If you have no idea about Kinnock then I'm surprised you are so invested in this conversation.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/opinion/house-commons/106475/stephen-kinnock-mp-boris-johnson-must

If that is "as pro EU and anti brexit as they come" then we truly do have no chance of remaining. Surely someone that pro EU and anti Brexit would not support a withdrawal deal that takes us out the EU?

Kinnock will vote for a withdrawal deal as he has supported over the past few months.

[Hibbyradge]

If you have no idea about Kinnock then I'm surprised you are so invested in this conversation.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/opinion/house-commons/106475/stephen-kinnock-mp-boris-johnson-must

If that is "as pro EU and anti brexit as they come" then we truly do have no chance of remaining. Surely someone that pro EU and anti Brexit would not support a withdrawal deal that takes us out the EU?

Kinnock will vote for a withdrawal deal as he has supported over the past few months.

Ha ha, I thought you meant Neil Kinnock :hilarious

I deserve a :doh:

[Since90+2]

Ha ha, I thought you meant Neil Kinnock :hilarious

I deserve a :doh:

Sure you did , considering I said Kinnock and Neil Kinnock hasn't been a MP since 1995.

Sometimes its just better to admit you were wrong and move on. Perhaps that's been the whole problem with Brexit. Folk got so entrenched in a position and don't want to admit their mistake , which Brexit is.

[Cataplana]

Sorry , it wasn't the intention to make it sound like a dig at posters.

I stand by my post though that this has been the plan since Johnson came to power and if Remain MPs remain resolute no deal won't happen. If they vote for the deal then it's obviously "game over" from a remain perspective.

To be fair to them. (God that's difficult.) They can argue that the EU sobered up when faced by Boris, and his gunboat diplomacy.

[Hibbyradge]

Sure you did :wink:

That's uncharitable and churlish.

I see the wink so I'll assume that you're joking.

I had completely forgotten about the prodigal son and his tiny band. They are frankly irrelevant in this at the moment although I suppose they might become more significant if things change.

In any case, as predicted, the DUP have already come out against any deal which keeps NI in the customs union.

Edit: I hadn't seen your edit. So you weren't joking. Well done.

I thought you were talking about Kinnock snr. That's bad enough, but if it pleases you to try to patronise me, you crack on.

[lapsedhibee]

Sure you did , considering I said Kinnock and Neil Kinnock hasn't been a MP since 1995.

Sometimes its just better to admit you were wrong and move on. Perhaps that's been the whole problem with Brexit. Folk got so entrenched in a position and don't want to admit their mistake , which Brexit is.

:bitchy:

[lapsedhibee]

I had completely forgotten about the prodigal son and his tiny band. They are frankly irrelevant in this at the moment although I suppose they might become more significant if things change.
Kinnock Jr and Lisa Nandy have been pretty cogent whenever they've been in the spotlight explaining their views. Welcome change from the infantile stuff that comes out of the Cabinet's gobs.

[Ozyhibby]

I know well the work that Kinnock jnr has been doing on brexit and that Neil Kinnock has long since retired but I have to admit when I read it I thought of Neil Kinnock as well.
Showing my age.


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[Hibbyradge]

Kinnock Jr and Lisa Nandy have been pretty cogent whenever they've been in the spotlight explaining their views. Welcome change from the infantile stuff that comes out of the Cabinet's gobs.

A lot of the details have passed me by or rather, as I explained in the OP, I am avoiding most of the news broadcasts because they're literally doing my head in. Anger or depression are never far away if I succumb and watch a programme.

I've been pretty much restricting myself to headlines, BBC front page stories and Guardian reports for a while now. I find this forum as safe a place to read about what's happening as any!

[Cataplana]

How? Have you heard of the minimum wage and national living wage? What line of work are you in that is likely to be at threat from lower wages because of an increase in potential employees? Do you have a contract, if so your salary is protected by the terms of your contract.

Which flood of non Europeans do you see coming to this basket case of a country and what jobs do you expect them to take?

Hang on, I've got it, you're a gypsy traveller, who sells pegs, picks tatties and soft fruit and you feel threatened.

Get a grip!

Any need? Its about supply and demand. The minimum wage is a safety net, we should be looking to pay people in excess of that, but if you have enough people happy to work for that then it's what employers pay.

[Cataplana]

How? Have you heard of the minimum wage and national living wage? What line of work are you in that is likely to be at threat from lower wages because of an increase in potential employees? Do you have a contract, if so your salary is protected by the terms of your contract.

Which flood of non Europeans do you see coming to this basket case of a country and what jobs do you expect them to take?

Hang on, I've got it, you're a gypsy traveller, who sells pegs, picks tatties and soft fruit and you feel threatened.

Get a grip!

Any need? Its about supply and demand. The minimum wage is a safety net, we should be looking to pay people in excess of that, but if you have enough people happy to work for that then it's what employers pay.

[Moulin Yarns]

Any need? Its about supply and demand. The minimum wage is a safety net, we should be looking to pay people in excess of that, but if you have enough people happy to work for that then it's what employers pay.

I'm still trying to figure out where this threat is coming from. Is it the hundreds of thousands of Romanians that the Daily Mail warned you about?


Despite fears that Great Britain will be overrun by migrants ready to steal jobs, drain the system, and stretch the waiting time for your doctor’s appointment, the truth looks very different.The M&S suit you bought to wear to your job interview? That wouldn’t exist without a migrant. That Queen song blasting in your ears as you walk to the GP? Wouldn’t exist without a refugee.


Out of all EU countries, the UK has the most citizens living abroad.


migrants from the European Economic Area contributed 34% more in taxes than they received in benefits between 2001 and 2011.


26% of doctors in the NHS were born abroad That really lowers the wages :rolleyes:


https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/facts-migration-immigration-impact-uk-tabloids/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjL3AwKyW5QIVhrHtCh24awUWEAAYASA AEgLi__D_BwE


In 2018, the most common reason that non-EU migrants gave for having originally moved to the UK was family (49% of non-EU born), followed by work (20%). The high shares of family migrants in the non-EU population in part reflects the fact that people who come on family visas are more likely to settle permanently than people who come on work or student visas – as explained in the Migration Observatory briefing, Settlement in the UK.

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-an-overview/


I'm happy for you to disprove any of the above to support your opinion that non EU migrants will take all our jobs and lower the wages. If you can?

[Cataplana]

From what I can make out you are picking me up wrong.

My concern cane from the fact that the EU would no longer be able to set immigration policy, or employment law.

I believe these are good reasons to remain in the EU.

Also, I don't read the Daily Mail.

Edit: far from me proving you wrong, you have shown me my fears are unfounded. Which is pretty much what adult discussion is about.

Next time, I won't say what worries me, and just labour on with the sane prejudices and fears.

[Jones28]

Agriculture NEEDS a deal to survive in the short term, a bit of a worry for livestock producers who rely on export markets.

Overall a deal would reduce my anxiety massively, but I’m still angry about Brexit and would be delighted for revoke/remain in any guise.

[Hibbyradge]

From what I can make out you are picking me up wrong.

My concern cane from the fact that the EU would no longer be able to set immigration policy, or employment law.

I believe these are good reasons to remain in the EU.

Also, I don't read the Daily Mail.

Edit: far from me proving you wrong, you have shown me my fears are unfounded. Which is pretty much what adult discussion is about.

Next time, I won't say what worries me, and just labour on with the sane prejudices and fears.

Now now.

[Cataplana]

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/brexit-nhs-staff-shortages-burnout-culture-needs-fixing-685618?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=fb&utm_campaign=jp_reshare

Stockpile nurses, what are they indentured slaves? Here's a better idea increase their wages to a level that would make them want to stay.

You could also, you know, recruit more people to the profession, using the same strstegy. Something that is beyond the main union. https://www.rcn.org.uk/news-and-events/news/rcn-responds-to-immigration-white-paper

"By all means, continue to pay our members less than 30k, just make them exempt from the minimum wage for immigration.'

I accept that the figures show immigration does not effect wages, but at the same time, here is one union that is fully behind immigration because it attracts people to work at a low wage. They should be attracting people to come and work at a high wage. No wonder the leaders were ousted.

[Fife-Hibee]

You dont think a no deal complicates the argument for Independence?

No I don't. It yet again points out quite clearly why the UK doesn't suit Scotlands interests.

[SHODAN]

Latest Queen's speech rumour is ending of free movement under UK law, so: No. I would not in any way be relieved. I want a route out if Johnson and co turn this into a libertarian tax haven.

[Cataplana]

Latest Queen's speech rumour is ending of free movement under UK law, so: No. I would not in any way be relieved. I want a route out if Johnson and co turn this into a libertarian tax haven.

I have been racking my brain as to where I could go if I wanted to leave this country. Hopefully other EU countries will offer a sympathetic approach to those of us who want out.

Would this ending of free movement make it harder for us to leave?

[Hibernia&Alba]

I have been racking my brain as to where I could go if I wanted to leave this country. Hopefully other EU countries will offer a sympathetic approach to those of us who want out.

Would this ending of free movement make it harder for us to leave?

Yes, it's back to the era of visas and work permits. If the other EU countries want to make things awkward for British visitors, they need only tie up the applications in red tape.

[Cataplana]

Yes, it's back to the era of visas and work permits. If the other EU countries want to make things awkward for British visitors, they need only tie up the applications in red tape.

So, the problem would be entering other countries, as opposed to leaving this one? I fear that people in essential occupations, like health care, might be prevented from leaving this country.

[Fife-Hibee]

So, the problem would be entering other countries, as opposed to leaving this one? I fear that people in essential occupations, like health care, might be prevented from leaving this country.

What makes you so sure you’ll have to leave Scotland?

[Hibernia&Alba]

So, the problem would be entering other countries, as opposed to leaving this one? I fear that people in essential occupations, like health care, might be prevented from leaving this country.

I don't think that would be legal, due its being discriminatory. Much more likely we end up recruiting more doctors and nurses from outside the EU - then the bigots in the country will no doubt start complaining about black immigration again, talking nostalgically about the era when white Europeans used to come in large numbers, whilst conveniently forgetting they never wanted them here. You can read it like a book. Some of the Brexit types want to return to some mythical English/British white Christian past when there was no crime and we all played cricket on the village green.

[Cataplana]

What makes you so sure you’ll have to leave Scotland?

It's always been a dream, however if Scotland is an EU country, it would solve seeking citizenship elsewhere.


I don't think that would be legal, due its being discriminatory. Much more likely we end up recruiting more doctors and nurses from outside the EU - then the bigots in the country will no doubt start complaining about black immigration again, talking nostalgically about the era when white Europeans used to come in large numbers, whilst conveniently forgetting they never wanted them here. You can read it like a book. Some of the Brexit types want to return to some mythical English/British white Christian past when there was no crime and we all played cricket on the village green.

You can certainly read them like a book.

I did raise this possibility earlier of people from outside the EU working for lower wages, and it was something the likes of the RCN were happy to go along with. On the whole though emigration does not play a big part on wage levels; so, the evidence suggests that we'll be none the worse off if people come from within the EU, or outwith the EU.

As for being illegal, what would that concern an unelected fascist junta? The general public are already happy for public servants like the military and NHS to be underpaid and treated shabbily as it is - can't see much of an uprising to defend "our boys", or "the angels", should Herr Johnson and Dokter Cummings tell us they are happy to work for free.

[LaMotta]

No I don't. It yet again points out quite clearly why the UK doesn't suit Scotlands interests.

From that perspective I agree.

However given that the majority of Scotland's "exports" go to the RUK, it would without doubt be an issue for many businesses in an independent Scotland in the EU, if there was Tariffs in place on goods for transactions between Scotland and UK.

Thats a serious issue that is hard to address.