Why does the derby generally seem to matter more to Hearts?

[G B Young]

I'm not really talking about the fans, more about the clubs.

When I was a kid in the 1970s I don't recall there being any real worry among Hibs fans about the derby. For a good number of years we were the better team, as evidenced by our respective league positions, and as such we tended to win the vast majority of the derbies - the 7-0 game of course really ramming home our superiority in the fixture.

For me, there was a shift in Hearts' approach when they came back up to the top flight in 1983 and they won what was the first Edinburgh derby to be played in four or five years due Hearts having spent four of contained a few young Jambos like Mackay and Bowman who remembered the 70s and were fired up to turn the tables. Jim Jefferies, who suffered as a player at the hands of Hibs, was another determined to have his revenge when he became Hearts boss (still didn't stop him suffering a 6-2 defeat mind you!). They took a real stranglehold on the fixture which pretty much lasted until McLeish became Hibs boss, but you continue to hear a lot from their players about how it's all but written into their contract that they mustn't lose the derby.

Yes, Hibs have had our fair share of wins in recent years and we've had players at the club who really 'get' what it means to play in the derby, but do Hibs as a club really care as much? It seems to me that while Hearts would regard a season in which they won most of the derbies as a decent one no matter where they finished in the league, Hibs tend to win the fixture when, as in the 70s, they have simply been the better team (as opposed to fixating on the derby as the fixture to win above all others). The departure of Robbie Neilson in particular underlined the Hearts mentality. He'd done a pretty impressive job in taking them out of the Championship and finished third in the top flight, yet by losing a cup tie to Hibs his number was up as far as many fans were concerned.

[Cataplana]

There's a Randy Newman song called Rednecks. Google the lyrics of that and you will maybe understand the mentality of those that side with the establishment.

[Weegreenman]

As a supporter it means everything to me to beat Hearts but I’ve read many times on this forum that Hibs as a club are not defined by our results against Hearts.

What a croc of *****! I want to beat them and beat them bad and when we lose, I hurt like a mother ****er for days on end.

I would have thought most of my fellow supporters would feel the same but apparently not.
Now if the supporters don’t feel it, how the hell do you expect the players too?

[Diclonius]

I wish we cared as much about the derby as Hearts do.

[SRHibs]

Probably because we usually lose. It's easier to "not care" about the derby when that's the case.

[Sammy7nil]

From youth teams up it is hammered into their players you do not lose to Hibs. Now a this might seem sad but it has worked for long spells so much so Hearts have won more derbies at ER than Hibs.

I have seen so many derbies like today nothing between the teams both poor to average yet they win.

I don't know why we fail so often I have seen players like Davey Farrell give his all but get beat in Derby after Derby so not always lack of effort.

Answers on a postcard.

[The_Horde]

We've simply recruited wrong. That's the difference.

We've gone from Lennon and Stubbs (hearts haters) to Passivebottom and his team of half arsed english journeymen.

[GreenCastle]

It’s hammered into then from a young age the importance of it plus any new players know the significance.

Instead we have ex Jambos (Murray / Makel) coaching our youth players to gain own personal experience and currently a clueless manager and soft staff who hasn’t learn anything from previous games by lumping the ball to Berra every few minutes.

[JohnM1875]

It honestly isn't that long ago where it as the exact opposite. It mattered more to every single one of our players. That's why we had such a good record against them. 'Here we go, 10 in a row' etc.

[Sammy7nil]

We've simply recruited wrong. That's the difference.

We've gone from Lennon and Stubbs (hearts haters) to Passivebottom and his team of half arsed english journeymen.

This has gone on for decades with the odd blip here and there. Check the overall record we must have one of the worst records anywhere in the world.

[Turkish Green]

I wish we cared as much about the derby as Hearts do.
I suspect that we 'pretend' not to care as over the past 3 / 4 decades we have come off second best. That is why the 7-0 result is so important to us.

Never liked them anyway.

Now for whatever the reason, Hearts have been managed by ex-players who instill the need to beat Hibs as a matter of club pride. While not so much, Ian Murray aside, with Hibs.

[Hibernia&Alba]

In my era of the 1990s on, our record in the derby is abysmal; rarely have we been the dominant force. Why that should be, I honestly don't know, but even terrible Hearts sides (like today) have managed to lift themselves for the derby in a way we often have not. Perhaps we are just too nice and too soft, whereas they really care; but where does their motivation come from? I'm thoroughly sick of it overall.

[HibeeHibernian4]

This has gone on for decades with the odd blip here and there. Check the overall record we must have one of the worst records anywhere in the world.

Not even close to being one of the worst records in Scotland, let alone the world.

[Stokesy's on fire]

Today we simply let them off simple as we have now lost at home to the worst team in the top flight things are looking really grim for us and today was embarrassing.

[Sammy7nil]

I suspect that we 'pretend' not to care as over the past 3 / 4 decades we have come off second best. That is why the 7-0 result is so important to us.

Never liked them anyway.

Now for whatever the reason, Hearts have been managed by ex-players who instill the need to beat Hibs as a matter of club pride. While not so much, Ian Murray aside, with Hibs.

during our terrible run Hibs had Stanton, Blackley, Auld, Collins, Ormond, Suazee, Hughes and Mixu all were ex players.

[JohnM1875]

Today we simply let them off simple as we have now lost at home to the worst team in the top flight things are looking really grim for us and today was embarrassing.

Unfortunately Hearts aren't the worst team in the top flight. That accolade sits a lot closer to home.

[Hi Heid Yin]

Too much self pitying going on in this thread.

Any Jambo looking in will be having a field day.

I grew up watching derbies when Hearts couldn't score a goal at Tynecastle, never mind get a win.

The only derby that matters is the one just played, as that secures the bragging rights until the next one.

Our boys have done okay in the derbies in the last few years, and how can any of us ever forget Hanlon's late equaliser in the 2-2 Scottish Cup game at Tynecastle that set us on our way to that historical Scottish Cup Victory in May 2016?

Who at that moment of time cared a jot about sequences or how many derbies we had previously lost?

[Danderhall Hibs]

The answer is it doesn’t. That’s why there’s an uproar on here every time we lose to them, no matter how well we’re doing either side of the game (example being the 2-1 game 18 months or so ago when we were going for 2nd).

We tend to play it down in the build up etc though - maybe because of the horrendous run in the late 80s and 90s.

[Crab apple]

As fans it certainly doesn’t matter more to them than us. It generally matters to the players too. Seventies we were well on top. 83 onwards the tide started to turn. From the 90’s onwards they’ve generally had bigger budgets than us and recruited better although we’ve had our succesful periods recently under McLeish, Stubbs and Lennon. The reason they won today is that our current manager is incompetent.

[Sammy7nil]

Not even close to being one of the worst records in Scotland, let alone the world.

Enlighten me who has a worse home derby record in Scotland please only use real derbies not D Utd St Johnstone for example

[Sammy7nil]

Too much self pitying going on in this thread.

Any Jambo looking in will be having a field day.

I grew up watching derbies when Hearts couldn't score a goal at Tynecastle, never mind get a win.

The only derby that matters is the one just played, as that secures the bragging rights until the next one.

Our boys have done okay in the derbies in the last few years, and how can any of us ever forget Hanlon's late equaliser in the 2-2 Scottish Cup game at Tynecastle that set us on our way to that historical Scottish Cup Victory in May 2016?

Who at that moment of time cared a jot about sequences or how many derbies we had previously lost?

None of that matters only today's result :wink:

[JohnM1875]

Enlighten me who has a worse home derby record in Scotland please only use real derbies not D Utd St Johnstone for example

Haven't Hearts won more Edinburgh derbies at Easter Road then we have? Obviously haven't checked. And it might well just be some rank hearts chat.

[Sammy7nil]

Haven't Hearts won more Edinburgh derbies at Easter Road then we have? Obviously haven't checked. And it might well just be some rank hearts chat.

It is true.

[JohnM1875]

It is true.

Wow. Wish I hadn't asked. That is sickening.

[Hi Heid Yin]

None of that matters only today's result :wink:

:wink: Touche!

[Hibernia&Alba]

It is true.

And a disgrace.

[Kano Kirsty]

This has gone on for decades with the odd blip here and there. Check the overall record we must have one of the worst records anywhere in the world.

The fact that Hearts have won more top flight games at our own ground really riles me. Does it matter more to them? I seriously doubt it but whatever it is, the records speak for themselves. 😡

[Fife-Hibee]

Hearts have always played a style against us that is effective far more often than not against our own style. Both clubs have their own 'ethos' if you will. That ethos doesn't change with players, managers or even ownership. It is instilled into the club and is passed on through every transition of manager, player, owner, staff.... etc.

Until the club fundamentally changes it principles, it's priorities and it's overall outlook on the game, that will continue to be the case.

[The_Horde]

This has gone on for decades with the odd blip here and there. Check the overall record we must have one of the worst records anywhere in the world.

The financial implications of those runs nearly killed them.

Since then, on a more level playing field financially, results are far more even and normal.

They don't have anything we haven't had for the last 4/5 years. We've literally just recruited the wrong manager and players.

[Sammy7nil]

The financial implications of those runs nearly killed them.

Since then, on a more level playing field financially, results are far more even and normal.

They don't have anything we haven't had for the last 4/5 years. We've literally just recruited the wrong manager and players.

There was a twenty year period where they spent more look at the record it is longer than that.

[broondog]

Probably because we usually lose. It's easier to "not care" about the derby when that's the case.

wht a load of ***** we usually lose? funny how you mention tht but can't back it up with any stats

[Sammy7nil]

wht a load of ***** we usually lose? funny how you mention tht but can't back it up with any stats

Eh ! Just look at our record?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Eh ! Just look at our record?

I’ve never run the numbers but I thought the lack of games against them when we were the dominant team skewed the figures a bit (2 games a season and not always in the same league).

[SRHibs]

wht a load of ***** we usually lose? funny how you mention tht but can't back it up with any stats

Sorry, I'll be glass half full for you. We usually don't win - 73.6% of times, according to the statistics.

[Sammy7nil]

I’ve never run the numbers but I thought the lack of games against them when we were the dominant team skewed the figures a bit (2 games a season and not always in the same league).

https://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=1227&team2_id=1289&teamTabs=h2h

Hearts 143 wins
Hibs 85 wins

We would need to win every derby for the next 15 years to catch up.

[Hibernia&Alba]

https://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=1227&team2_id=1289&teamTabs=h2h

Hearts 143 wins
Hibs 85 wins

We would need to win every derby for the next 15 years to catch up.

Sickening.

[hfc rd]

https://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=1227&team2_id=1289&teamTabs=h2h

Hearts 143 wins
Hibs 85 wins

We would need to win every derby for the next 15 years to catch up.


So overall that shows there have been more draws in this fixture than Hibs victories in Edinburgh derbies..

Sickening and embarrassing to say the least!

[Sammy7nil]

Not even close to being one of the worst records in Scotland, let alone the world.


Enlighten me who has a worse home derby record in Scotland please only use real derbies not D Utd St Johnstone for example

Are you still googling or have you given up ?

[Fife-Hibee]

So overall that shows there have been more draws in this fixture than Hibs victories in Edinburgh derbies..

Sickening and embarrassing to say the least!

Especially when you factor in the sheer number of draws where we should have won, had we not been so damn complacent.

[The 90+2]

We’re both good - they win

We’re both ***** - they win

We’re good they’re ***** - we scrape a win

They’re good we’re ***** - they hammer us.

**** knows why but it’s the truth.

Last season Easter road they rested their whole team for the cup final they still drew with half their team under 21s.

[hibeerealist]

Probably because we usually lose. It's easier to "not care" about the derby when that's the case.

Perhaps you are missing the point as to why we lose so many derbies!!!

[Mixu1875]

I think as a club 0-7 seriously embarrassed them and from then on it’s been instilled in every age group that no matter how good or bad things are, losing to us is never ever acceptable. Neilson had them 2nd in the league and was hounded out due to results against us.

[SRHibs]

Perhaps you are missing the point as to why we lose so many derbies!!!

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

[Onion]

Hearts - hate-filled hickies who are fixated on one thing and who gauge success and failure against that one measure.

Hibs - have a life, are more rounded individuals who care about the bigger picture.

It's no accident Hibs fans are Hibs fans. Evolution in action.

[Steve-O]

We’re both good - they win

We’re both ***** - they win

We’re good they’re ***** - we scrape a win

They’re good we’re ***** - they hammer us.

**** knows why but it’s the truth.

Last season Easter road they rested their whole team for the cup final they still drew with half their team under 21s.

Shouldn’t laugh but you’re actually right. Bar 6-2 and 3-0 in the space of 10 months, we haven’t hammered them properly since 1973!

[Onion]

I think as a club 0-7 seriously embarrassed them and from then on it’s been instilled in every age group that no matter how good or bad things are, losing to us is never ever acceptable. Neilson had them 2nd in the league and was hounded out due to results against us.

Heckingbottom has us 2nd (bottom) and is still in a job.

Maybe that as much as anything explains why we lose more derbies ?

[Baader]

I think as a club 0-7 seriously embarrassed them and from then on it’s been instilled in every age group that no matter how good or bad things are, losing to us is never ever acceptable. Neilson had them 2nd in the league and was hounded out due to results against us.

Hearts, if I recall, only won one derby in the entire 1970s. 0-7 was obviously the start of 1973 so it was years until they upped the stakes.

[Mixu1875]

Hearts, if I recall, only won one derby in the entire 1970s. 0-7 was obviously the start of 1973 so it was years until they upped the stakes.

Correct but 0-7 was the start of it, I’’m sure. Ever since the 80’s I’ve felt the Derby had a different dynamic for them. Of course, this is just my feeling on the matter.

[FilipinoHibs]

I think we are all kidding ourselves if we think the derby means less to us than to them. You only get this sort of rubbish spouted on here when we have lost.

[DetroitHibs]

I’ve listened to a few of the Si Ferry podcasts and it’s drummed in to them, not to lose against us. Locke for weeks was drumming that in to the players before that final, many ex players mentioned that. I know it’s hard to stomach, was hard to listen to as well.

Who in that team today REALLY wanted it? Watch Hanlon's body language. As captain he doesn’t inspire me one bit. Doesn’t rally the lads and gets us going, he’s just not captain material. The only player that was really up for it was Porto.

[Baader]

Correct but 0-7 was the start of it, I’’m sure. Ever since the 80’s I’ve felt the Derby had a different dynamic for them. Of course, this is just my feeling on the matter.

I agree with you Mixu. Just think it mostly comes down to ftb Mercer coming in and the start of them living without their means. But it was a full ten years after 0-7.

[Jones28]

Hearts have always played a style against us that is effective far more often than not against our own style. Both clubs have their own 'ethos' if you will. That ethos doesn't change with players, managers or even ownership. It is instilled into the club and is passed on through every transition of manager, player, owner, staff.... etc.

Until the club fundamentally changes it principles, it's priorities and it's overall outlook on the game, that will continue to be the case.

Yet at time yesterday Hearts passed their forward and played some decent football, on the occasions hubs won it back it punted up the park to Kamberi. Where does that sit with the footballing ethos of either club?

[heretoday]

I think we are all kidding ourselves if we think the derby means less to us than to them. You only get this sort of rubbish spouted on here when we have lost.

Exactly. It means the same to both. We're just like them though it's painful to admit!

[Hibernia&Alba]

I think we are all kidding ourselves if we think the derby means less to us than to them. You only get this sort of rubbish spouted on here when we have lost.

Yet their record is massively better than ours, though the two clubs are of very similar size. It's hard to explain.

[Since452]

I wouldn't say it does. We're just pish

[Heisenberg]

I had a wee moan yesterday that both of their goals were lucky. On reflection it’s all about desire. Their equaliser was down to their player wanting it more and their winner was down to Vela not wanting it enough.

[Pete]

The only thing that's embarrassing is this thread.

Look at the results since 2012, a real watershed moment where our club mentality changed. It's pretty even.

We're in danger of losing that though but GTF with all this shoegazing.

[Crab apple]

The only thing that's embarrassing is this thread.

Look at the results since 2012, a real watershed moment where our club mentality changed. It's pretty even.

We're in danger of losing that though but GTF with all this shoegazing.

This. 100%. F..k the Hearts.

[Sammy7nil]

The only thing that's embarrassing is this thread.

Look at the results since 2012, a real watershed moment where our club mentality changed. It's pretty even.

We're in danger of losing that though but GTF with all this shoegazing.


This. 100%. F..k the Hearts.

You are acting like them only look at the stats that fit your agenda.

Our Derby record is shocking no hiding place from that. Levein has lost 9 out of 60 yes SIXTY derbies as a player or manager.

Hibs should be ashamed and start NOW to attempt redress the balance.

[Crab apple]

You are acting like them only look at the stats that fit your agenda.

Our Derby record is shocking no hiding place from that. Levein has lost 9 out of 60 yes SIXTY derbies as a player or manager.

Hibs should be ashamed and start NOW to attempt redress the balance.

There’s no agendas here Sammy. We’re all agreed that our derby record isn’t great but what’s the point in casting this up. I went to most of the 22 in a row games and it wasn’t pleasant. The 90’s and beyond they’ve been financially doped up for the most part. Pete’s right since 2012 things have been even steven. The here and now is what matters though. Sack the imposter manager and get players in who will win football matches.

[Cataplana]

during our terrible run Hibs had Stanton, Blackley, Auld, Collins, Ormond, Suazee, Hughes and Mixu all were ex players.

Ormond never managed Hibs against Hearts, not did Bertie Auld IIRC.

[Sammy7nil]

Ormond never managed Hibs against Hearts, not did Bertie Auld IIRC.

Oh well maybe that is why our record is so :doh:

[Sammy7nil]

There’s no agendas here Sammy. We’re all agreed that our derby record isn’t great but what’s the point in casting this up. I went to most of the 22 in a row games and it wasn’t pleasant. The 90’s and beyond they’ve been financially doped up for the most part. Pete’s right since 2012 things have been even steven. The here and now is what matters though. Sack the imposter manager and get players in who will win football matches.

This is not only a financially doped problem Hibs as a club and I include the fans have an issue with the Derby that needs to be addressed. The only way to do that is recognise and admit we have a problem

How many of those 142 derbies we have took place between 1995 and 2012 ?

[Diclonius]

Derby wins at Easter Road this decade:

Hibs: 7
Hearts: 7

Derby wins at Tynecastle this decade:

Hearts: 9
Hibs: 2

Desire having a **** team they can get a win at our place more than they have a right to. We on the other hand need all the planets to align, a blue moon AND they have to play terribly to get a win over at their place. I hope that changes next decade.

[dchibs]

Today we simply let them off simple as we have now lost at home to the worst team in the top flight things are looking really grim for us and today was embarrassing.

Are they the worst team though, we have players who cant tackle a fish supper or last for more than an hour, switch off for corners and free kicks a goalkeeper who could throw it to build up from the back decided to launch it to berra all the time a left back who stops and plays it back all the time, they also had a few injuries to players that would make them better, i know were missing Boyle and Magregor but to say they are the worst team when we are poor is pushing it a bit.

[CorrieHibs]

It’s engrained in them. They despise us and they have installed this arrogance that they don’t lose derbies.

For all their “big team” talk they have won 3 trophies in my lifetime (33) same as us. But, they have a knack of winning derbies and it’s something they are good at.

I think we’ve won about 8 times in my lifetime at Tynie. How many have they won at Easter Road?

Levein is a crap manager, but always has his teams are up for playing us. They have Locke working at the club who barely lost a derby telling the players how they don’t lose and how crap Hibs are.

A depleted squad, No Soutar, Naismith, Harring, Walker or Washington. Not won a match all season. Fans on his back and want him out. But they can still rock up to Easter Road and turn us over.

No disrespect to Makel and Murray, but should we not have Hibs men in their jobs? Like Hearts have Hearts men. Makel and Murray never played for us, therefore don’t know what it means to beat Hearts. They certainly know what it’s like to beat Hibs playing for Hearts.

Even at development level hearts are desperate to beat us. So, much so they play 6/7 first team players to make sure they do.

Our record under them with Stubbs and Lennon was good and I always felt confident that we would beat them especially at home. Going to yesterday’s game and the build up during the week, I wasn’t confident at all and neither were the players.

We have definitely lost our way again.

[Diclonius]

It’s engrained in them. They despise us and they have installed this arrogance that they don’t lose derbies.

For all their “big team” talk they have won 3 trophies in my lifetime (33) same as us. But, they have a knack of winning derbies and it’s something they are good at.

I think we’ve won about 8 times in my lifetime at Tynie. How many have they won at Easter Road?

Levein is a crap manager, but always has his teams are up for playing us. They have Locke working at the club who barely lost a derby telling the players how they don’t lose and how crap Hibs are.

A depleted squad, No Soutar, Naismith, Harring, Walker or Washington. Not won a match all season. Fans on his back and want him out. But they can still rock up to Easter Road and turn us over.

No disrespect to Makel and Murray, but should we not have Hibs men in their jobs? Like Hearts have Hearts men. Makel and Murray never played for us, therefore don’t know what it means to beat Hearts. They certainly know what it’s like to beat Hibs playing for Hearts.

Even at development level hearts are desperate to beat us. So, much so they play 6/7 first team players to make sure they do.

Our record under them with Stubbs and Lennon was good and I always felt confident that we would beat them especially at home. Going to yesterday’s game and the build up during the week, I wasn’t confident at all and neither were the players.

We have definitely lost our way again.

If you question why Hibs don't have the same "beat Hearts at all costs" mentality as they do you get shot down on here. "They're losers [sic] who are obsessed with us" etc.

Personally I don't see much fun in beating wee teams 2 or 3 nil and then getting kicked off the park in a 1-0 loss to a terrible Hearts team, as happened in the past and may well start happening again. **** this quiet dignity moral victory pish, I want US to beat THEM at all costs.

Regards to the ex players thing, I think that's a red herring. We had plenty ex players in charge (especially during the 80s) and that's made no difference. Stubbs never had any association before he joined and he had the best record against them in years. The club, not the staff, leads on this IMO.

[FilipinoHibs]

There’s no agendas here Sammy. We’re all agreed that our derby record isn’t great but what’s the point in casting this up. I went to most of the 22 in a row games and it wasn’t pleasant. The 90’s and beyond they’ve been financially doped up for the most part. Pete’s right since 2012 things have been even steven. The here and now is what matters though. Sack the imposter manager and get players in who will win football matches.

I went to them all to. In the 70s we were less concerned about Hearts. Rangers and Celtic were the real rivals. That changed after we both had spells in the lower league and our standard dropped. I saw 17 and 22 in a row. Most of younger fans probably brought up on Sauzee and Latapy and saw some good pumpings -- 6-2, 0-3 , 3-1. 2013 of course was nadir as well as 4-0 in semi but we still had victories. We have dominated in the Stubbs, Lennon and Ph last season. Probably why so many are throwing toys out the pram. But I agree PH must go and moved quickly. We must learn lessons of the past.

[PISTOL1875]

The problem with Hibs is that we are just far too weak.. We have players like Stevenson , Mallan and our captain hanlon who are just too nice.. Porto gave Uche a elbow in the coupon off the ball yesterday and you'd never see anyone else in the current playing squad with that type of attitude..

It boils my p155 when I hear Hibs fans going on about derbies like ' it's just another game '' and '' its not important to beat them '' That type of attitude sums up Hibs . Powder puff , gutless and chicken hearted..

[Golden Bear]

In all my years of supporting Hibs, ability wise, the current squad is by no means the worst I've seen but for lack of fight and the apparent willingness to readily accept defeat then this current mob are in my eyes right there at the top of the tree.

We all knew what was coming as soon as hertz equalised yesterday and its been a common theme this season. No backbone, no spirit , no effective leadership on the park , its all so friggin predictable.

:grr: