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Percy Vere
07-09-2019, 09:12 AM
So what did Belgium do in the last ten years to go from 66 to 1in the world rankings? Watching Scotland through the 70s 80s 90s we were always better than Belgium. Or on a par. Is it beyond our national and domestic games wit to look at their model and copy it?

Cataplana
07-09-2019, 09:16 AM
I bet they didn't sack a manager who was making progress to replace him with one of their cronies who had been unemployable for years.

Keith_M
07-09-2019, 09:31 AM
It's in the genes.

They realised that too many white Belgians weren't going to get them anywhere so they branched out a wee bit.

https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/files/2014/06/brazil_soccer_wcup__804225a.jpg

Scotland needs to invade some other countries, leave immediately, then play guys from the former 'colonies'.

McKenzie
07-09-2019, 09:40 AM
Overhauled their coaching system basing it more on small sided games - even as far down as 1v1 and 2v2 at the foundation ages. Why have 7 a side teams with squads of 10/11 where players will touch the ball for a minute or 2 when they could touch the ball hundreds of times in these situations. The Scottish fa is so backwards that until the coaching system is reviewed we will continually produce players who are sub standard.

Keith_M
07-09-2019, 09:49 AM
Overhauled their coaching system basing it more on small sided games - even as far down as 1v1 and 2v2 at the foundation ages. Why have 7 a side teams with squads of 10/11 where players will touch the ball for a minute or 2 when they could touch the ball hundreds of times in these situations. The Scottish fa is so backwards that until the coaching system is reviewed we will continually produce players who are sub standard.



Scottish Football is so far behind because of the people in charge. There focus is on appeasing The Rangers and Celtc and to hang with the rest of us.

blackpoolhibs
07-09-2019, 09:52 AM
We have this SAME conversation every time the international team play and invariably get beat. Nothing EVER happens, we keep doing the same things apart from replacing one losing manager after another.

Those in charge of the game in Scotland are so entrenched in their ways, that we won't see any upturn is success unless we completely change the whole set up.

Turkeys dont vote for christmas, and the gravy train is too good for those in charge to get off and let people who know what's needed take over.

Bookkeeper
07-09-2019, 10:28 AM
We have this SAME conversation every time the international team play and invariably get beat. Nothing EVER happens, we keep doing the same things apart from replacing one losing manager after another.

Those in charge of the game in Scotland are so entrenched in their ways, that we won't see any upturn is success unless we completely change the whole set up.

Turkeys dont vote for christmas, and the gravy train is too good for those in charge to get off and let people who know what's needed take over.


:top marksNothing more to be said, really. We'll never improve until its changed from the top down.

ScottB
07-09-2019, 10:44 AM
It’s not a mystery, it’s well documented, the efforts France, Spain, Iceland, Belgium etc etc etc went to.

We have endless debate, the odd investigation, and then? What has actually changed in the 21 years since our last tournament? Zip.

wallpaperman
07-09-2019, 11:02 AM
It's in the genes.

They realised that too many white Belgians weren't going to get them anywhere so they branched out a wee bit.

https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/files/2014/06/brazil_soccer_wcup__804225a.jpg

Scotland needs to invade some other countries, leave immediately, then play guys from the former 'colonies'.

Certainly an element of truth that they have benefited enormously from first or second generation immigration, as have other countries in continental Europe.

GreenCastle
07-09-2019, 11:19 AM
We have this SAME conversation every time the international team play and invariably get beat. Nothing EVER happens, we keep doing the same things apart from replacing one losing manager after another.

Those in charge of the game in Scotland are so entrenched in their ways, that we won't see any upturn is success unless we completely change the whole set up.

Turkeys dont vote for christmas, and the gravy train is too good for those in charge to get off and let people who know what's needed take over.

Agreed.

Many countries have over taken Scotland - not just Belgium.

we are hibs
07-09-2019, 11:19 AM
I bet they didn't sack a manager who was making progress to replace him with one of their cronies who had been unemployable for years.

Strachan wasnt making progress.

lord bunberry
07-09-2019, 03:19 PM
Strachan wasnt making progress.

I think he was, it wasn’t massive strides though. We’ve gone backwards big time since he left.

Percy Vere
07-09-2019, 04:25 PM
Overhauled their coaching system basing it more on small sided games - even as far down as 1v1 and 2v2 at the foundation ages. Why have 7 a side teams with squads of 10/11 where players will touch the ball for a minute or 2 when they could touch the ball hundreds of times in these situations. The Scottish fa is so backwards that until the coaching system is reviewed we will continually produce players who are sub standard.

It's got to start at grassroots. I did a coaching certificate years ago for working with kids. It was decent but never any follow up or getting you back to improve your skills. Obviously no bigger plan and probably no different now.

Percy Vere
07-09-2019, 04:26 PM
We have this SAME conversation every time the international team play and invariably get beat. Nothing EVER happens, we keep doing the same things apart from replacing one losing manager after another.

Those in charge of the game in Scotland are so entrenched in their ways, that we won't see any upturn is success unless we completely change the whole set up.

Turkeys dont vote for christmas, and the gravy train is too good for those in charge to get off and let people who know what's needed take over.

Well said.

Percy Vere
07-09-2019, 04:28 PM
Strachan wasnt making progress.

I think he meant Ally Macleod 😂

Sioux
07-09-2019, 04:43 PM
We have this SAME conversation every time the international team play and invariably get beat. Nothing EVER happens, we keep doing the same things apart from replacing one losing manager after another.

Those in charge of the game in Scotland are so entrenched in their ways, that we won't see any upturn is success unless we completely change the whole set up.

Turkeys dont vote for christmas, and the gravy train is too good for those in charge to get off and let people who know what's needed take over.

Who are these people?

SonOfDavidFrancey
07-09-2019, 04:57 PM
Certainly an element of truth that they have benefited enormously from first or second generation immigration, as have other countries in continental Europe.

Including Engerlund

FRes Hibbie
07-09-2019, 05:00 PM
I think he meant Ally Macleod 😂

I assumed Levein.

Crazyhorse
07-09-2019, 05:23 PM
So what did Belgium do in the last ten years to go from 66 to 1in the world rankings? Watching Scotland through the 70s 80s 90s we were always better than Belgium. Or on a par. Is it beyond our national and domestic games wit to look at their model and copy it?

We have discussed the changes Belgium made to their domestic leagues before. They have a 16 team league but have introduced various play off groupings at the end of the season to reduce meaningful games. Over the past two decades since the nadir of Belgian club teams in Europe and the national team at the end of the 1990s they have kept changing things to try to improve and make it more competitive (i.e avoid Anderlecht or Bruges winning every year). I don’t live there now but a couple of years ago I think they also drastically reduced the number of senior teams and overhauled the whole structure.
Zomtic and their SFA/SMM pals already think this season is an enormous success for Scottish football. The bigots bros are in the group stages of the
Europa league so no change is necessary.

Tobias Funke
07-09-2019, 06:44 PM
Our governing body and media are too busy fudding themselves off to the Old Firm to be interested in the state of our national game.

The Harp Awakes
07-09-2019, 07:03 PM
Scottish Football is so far behind because of the people in charge. There focus is on appeasing The Rangers and Celtc and to hang with the rest of us.

Sums it up perfectly. Nothing more to say and it ain't going to change anytime soon.

Diclonius
07-09-2019, 07:04 PM
I believe 2009 was the year the Belgian government introduced mandatory "kick the baw aboot in the park" time after school and banned all of "the Xboxes" and "the Playstations".

What? They do all that in Belgium too? Beats me then.

blackpoolhibs
07-09-2019, 07:05 PM
Who are these people?

People who have the country's success as their first priority, not their own. Have a look at the top table, then cull it, none of them have a ****in clue.

steakbake
07-09-2019, 09:11 PM
The rot’s at the top. We’ll never progress while people who are so limited in ambition and vision run the game. It’s like being run by duffers from a pish bowling club.

Purple & Green
07-09-2019, 09:29 PM
So what did Belgium do in the last ten years to go from 66 to 1in the world rankings? Watching Scotland through the 70s 80s 90s we were always better than Belgium. Or on a par. Is it beyond our national and domestic games wit to look at their model and copy it?

Belgium were euro championship finalists in 1980, and 4th placed at the 86 World Cup regularly qualifying for the knock out stages in the 80s and 90s.

They inflicted a rare defeat at Hampden in 83 iirc.

Percy Vere
07-09-2019, 10:53 PM
Belgium were euro championship finalists in 1980, and 4th placed at the 86 World Cup regularly qualifying for the knock out stages in the 80s and 90s.

They inflicted a rare defeat at Hampden in 83 iirc.

Must be my rose tinted specs. They have a good record against us. Nevertheless their ranking was a lot lower at times.

DetroitHibs
07-09-2019, 11:26 PM
The two biggest sides in Scotland Hoover up all the good young talent, but very few made the break thru due to the pressures on each old firm team to compete.

where'stheslope
09-09-2019, 06:07 PM
Strachan wasnt making progress.
Strachan should have been given the job to run the SFA and help make football changes from a footballers point of view!
Just now the SFA is being run by the Tash who nearly everyone on here wanted out of our club, and is now in charge of the National game????
And we wonder how the National team is not going anywhere???
Get in people who have experience of playing on the pitch, not people who Lord it in the stands every week!!!!!

Onceinawhile
10-09-2019, 11:10 AM
We have discussed the changes Belgium made to their domestic leagues before. They have a 16 team league but have introduced various play off groupings at the end of the season to reduce meaningful games. Over the past two decades since the nadir of Belgian club teams in Europe and the national team at the end of the 1990s they have kept changing things to try to improve and make it more competitive (i.e avoid Anderlecht or Bruges winning every year). I don’t live there now but a couple of years ago I think they also drastically reduced the number of senior teams and overhauled the whole structure.
Zomtic and their SFA/SMM pals already think this season is an enormous success for Scottish football. The bigots bros are in the group stages of the
Europa league so no change is necessary.


If folk think our split is mental, they would do well to look at the belgian league :agree::agree:

MrSmith
10-09-2019, 11:21 AM
For starters, the insidious nature of the SFA & SFL must change. One national body and not pandering to The Rangers for starters! The OO is in deep and trying to pass off as masons - they are not!

Once we have one national body, we can restructure and get back 16 teams each playing two games with each team per season. This would open up the entire league with very few meaningless games.

A singular national body must also be taken out of Glasgow and re-homed in a neutral town or city. A center of excellence set up to reflect both natural and modern football coaching. We need people who are in the game to be part of a new system. Pat Nevin for me as Chief. Furthered by people of his ilk, understanding, professionalism and love of the game involved at all levels. No more OO, bean counters or those sympathetic to the Rangers involved.

Sorry, I do hate the Rangers.

Ronniekirk
10-09-2019, 12:21 PM
Despite all the Think Tank Reports and money spent they clearly aren’t addressing what needs to be done as we are stagnant at best and being overtaken in rankings by countries who have always been behind us but have now overtaken us
Struggling to get crowds over the 30 000 and to be fair for what’s on offer that’s a reasonable core support
Clearly what’s being done isn’t impacting and therefore you would think it makes sense to look to Belgium and ask what they are doing right and then get on with implementing it But as someone else mentioned it’s the the Quality of Coaching that is part of the issue
The remains I g games in our group are fairly meaningless now for spectators but Clarke needs to be looking to shape a team that can do the business in the back foot play offs Fail to get us through those coupled with on going poor results wouldn’t be unacceptable but sorting the Bigger Picture is Crucial



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

hibsbollah
10-09-2019, 01:17 PM
Any subscriber listener to the SFAs usually terrible Scottish Football Coaching Podcast a couple of months ago could tell you. The guest was the youth football supremo in Belgium. What he initiated was paid coaches working with teams where fun not winning was the main focus until age 14. Training featured a lot of short sided games, 2 vs 2s and emphasising ball skills over tactics or team shape. No tactics until much older. In games if you make a mistake while dribbling that results in a goal, no problem, keep dribbling. Be greedy. As long as you're improving as a group of individials, it doesn't matter if you win.

The parallels with the Scottish kids game couldn't be greater. Despite the SFA coaching courses trying their best to promote this kind of progressive thinking, the culture is still win at all costs, lowest common denominator pump the ball long no mistakes, and if you have the choice of improve your existing flawed player or recruit in another one from a less 'prestigious' boys club, choose the latter because its quicker and less hassle.

Purple & Green
10-09-2019, 01:40 PM
Any subscriber listener to the SFAs usually terrible Scottish Football Coaching Podcast a couple of months ago could tell you. The guest was the youth football supremo in Belgium. What he initiated was paid coaches working with teams where fun not winning was the main focus until age 14. Training featured a lot of short sided games, 2 vs 2s and emphasising ball skills over tactics or team shape. No tactics until much older. In games if you make a mistake while dribbling that results in a goal, no problem, keep dribbling. Be greedy. As long as you're improving as a group of individials, it doesn't matter if you win.

The parallels with the Scottish kids game couldn't be greater. Despite the SFA coaching courses trying their best to promote this kind of progressive thinking, the culture is still win at all costs, lowest common denominator pump the ball long no mistakes, and if you have the choice of improve your existing flawed player or recruit in another one from a less 'prestigious' boys club, choose the latter because its quicker and less hassle.

Does it help when our grassroots football teams get virtually no support from the SFA while huge amounts are poured into elite academies?

hibsbollah
10-09-2019, 04:14 PM
Does it help when our grassroots football teams get virtually no support from the SFA while huge amounts are poured into elite academies?

Clearly not. But the central problem is crap coaching. Once a crap coach becomes a coach he tends to hang around. Crap coaches also don't know they are crap. So don't change. It's the same reason you get these abuse or bullying scandals in a way, there is very little scrutiny of Scottish coaches, especially in the grassroots game. You need to appoint coaches who are paid. That costs money. Iceland did it and the results are obvious.

Onceinawhile
10-09-2019, 09:25 PM
Any subscriber listener to the SFAs usually terrible Scottish Football Coaching Podcast a couple of months ago could tell you. The guest was the youth football supremo in Belgium. What he initiated was paid coaches working with teams where fun not winning was the main focus until age 14. Training featured a lot of short sided games, 2 vs 2s and emphasising ball skills over tactics or team shape. No tactics until much older. In games if you make a mistake while dribbling that results in a goal, no problem, keep dribbling. Be greedy. As long as you're improving as a group of individials, it doesn't matter if you win.

The parallels with the Scottish kids game couldn't be greater. Despite the SFA coaching courses trying their best to promote this kind of progressive thinking, the culture is still win at all costs, lowest common denominator pump the ball long no mistakes, and if you have the choice of improve your existing flawed player or recruit in another one from a less 'prestigious' boys club, choose the latter because its quicker and less hassle.

Thanks for the heads up. Was a great listen. Interesting that they start at 2v2 then 3 v 3, whereas we start at 4v4.

I was amazed to hear about how they encourage dribbling instead of passing but it made perfect sense. Far easier to teach passing down the line than dribbling. I'll certainly take that on board for future coaching.