Do we have a defensive midfielder at the club ?!

[GreenCastle]

1st team level NO.

Development team ?

I can only think of Tommy Block (he’s on loan - worth a recall ??)

Surely we should be giving someone a chance - it’s a massive problem area as we simply don’t make tackles / leave the dodgy back 4 very exposed.

[Speedway]

We have 3:

Block
Sterling
Hallberg if needed.

[Heisenberg]

Heckingbottom doesn’t want one. He said he wants all of his midfielders to defend, which doesn’t really work when those midfielders include Scott Allan, Stevie Mallan, Vicky Slivka and Josh Vela. Absolutely ridiculous recruitment this summer. Didn’t think last summer could be beaten but it looks like we’ve done it. Absolutely no semblance of a plan with the players we’ve signed.

[Leith Green]

Its actually ridiculous that he is getting away with this. Mallan and allan still playing together, no midfielder who can tackle or out muscle an opponent. He had all summer to sort his team the way he wanted and this is what we have. Absolute disgrace, he needs to go pronto..

[GreenCastle]

Heckingbottom doesn’t want one. He said he wants all of his midfielders to defend, which doesn’t really work when those midfielders include Scott Allan, Stevie Mallan, Vicky Slivka and Josh Vela. Absolutely ridiculous recruitment this summer. Didn’t think last summer could be beaten but it looks like we’ve done it. Absolutely no semblance of a plan with the players we’ve signed.

It’s a crazy notion.

Name with a good team in the world who doesn’t have a defensive midfielder ?

I’m not saying we play a Bartley type every game but when it’s glaring obvious we are struggling to win the ball / protect the back 4 why don’t we play one?!

Vela isn’t a DM
Hallberg isn’t a DM

It took us long enough to find a Bartley type then we got Milligan too who started playing well come January who he came back from Asia Cup.

I’m not saying Ojo was the answer but surely a younger player could do a job with some energy and a point to prove ?

[DH1875]

It’s a crazy notion.

Name with a good team in the world who doesn’t have a defensive midfielder ?

I’m not saying we play a Bartley type every game but when it’s glaring obvious we are struggling to win the ball / protect the back 4 why don’t we play one?!

Vela isn’t a DM
Hallberg isn’t a DM

It took us long enough to find a Bartley type then we got Milligan too who started playing well come January who he came back from Asia Cup.

I’m not saying Ojo was the answer but surely a younger player could do a job with some energy and a point to prove ?

I genuinely thought that Vela and Hallberg were/are DM's. Shows what I know :confused:

[1620]

Heckingbottom doesn’t want one. He said he wants all of his midfielders to defend, which doesn’t really work when those midfielders include Scott Allan, Stevie Mallan, Vicky Slivka and Josh Vela. Absolutely ridiculous recruitment this summer. Didn’t think last summer could be beaten but it looks like we’ve done it. Absolutely no semblance of a plan with the players we’ve signed.

His idea of them all defending might have chance of working with a rock solid back four. Hibs no longer have that unfortunately and with the complete lack of pace in our current back four (any of the permutations) we definitely need a strong competitive defensive midfielder because at the moment our back four needs all the help it can get and there is no one as far as I know at the club ready to play that role at first team level which is a disgrace.

[Bob Box Fish]

I genuinely thought that Vela and Hallberg were/are DM's. Shows what I know :confused:

Think both have been tagged as box to box midfielders.

[1620]

I genuinely thought that Vela and Hallberg were/are DM's. Shows what I know :confused:

Vela is less effective than Mallan and that is saying something and I don’t know anything about Hallberg but he is not described anywhere as a defensive midfield player.

[DH1875]

Think both have been tagged as box to box midfielders.

I'm sure when Vela signed I read somewhere that he also plays CB and that that's why I thought he was a DM.

[supermcginn]

Not 1 could tackle a fish supper. Disgrsceful from transfer committee.

[Bob Box Fish]

I'm sure when Vela signed I read somewhere that he also plays CB and that that's why I thought he was a DM.

Lennon played him left back when he was at Bolton.

[The 90+2]

Don’t sign one then say the players are soft as *****. Nae bother Hecks.

[andybev1]

edit - below

[andybev1]

Tommy block is at Queens park (re suggestions above), on a season loan. Pity as I think/hope h can progress to firs team. The strong sort of player we are crying out for.

[Hulk1875]

Heckingbottom doesn’t want one. He said he wants all of his midfielders to defend, which doesn’t really work when those midfielders include Scott Allan, Stevie Mallan, Vicky Slivka and Josh Vela. Absolutely ridiculous recruitment this summer. Didn’t think last summer could be beaten but it looks like we’ve done it. Absolutely no semblance of a plan with the players we’ve signed.

You can’t just I want all midfielders to defend some can’t and by looks of it none of ours can. Can’t believe the feeling about the place right now I’m usually quite a positive person would be like give him time but I can’t

[Is It On....]

Not 1 could tackle a fish supper. Disgrsceful from transfer committee.

I thought the transfer committee provided names of players for the position the manager requested. If that's the case, then the reason we don't have one is because our manager didn't request one. In his interview tonight he said "we're going are a pretty side, but soft." If that's what he thinks then it's up to him to sort it out because we have signed 9 players this summer that presumably agreed with.

[eastcoasthibby]

Ben Stirling isn't the answer either, I don't think he is anywhere near or able to do the DM job, not got the physical presence at all.

[Tyler Durden]

In certain circumstances you can play without a nominated defensive midfielder. Think of our starting cup final team in the 3-5-2 formation for example.

Even if we added Ngolo ****e to the team now, we’d still struggle. As there is a lack of aggression and desire through the whole team. There is no real pressing or hunting in packs type team work when we don’t have the ball. And we’re slow and ponderous on the ball.

So whilst the lack of a DM is a big problem and it’s unfathomable how we’ve got here, it’s still just the tip of the iceberg

[GreenCastle]

I genuinely thought that Vela and Hallberg were/are DM's. Shows what I know :confused:

Both can sit but they aren’t natural defensive midfielders.

The issue without a ball winning high energy level player is Allan and others waste a lot of energy trying to get the ball back when they should be using up their energy at other end of the park.

The manager is right we are soft - Aberdeen and Hearts will bully us and things could get bad regarding score lines if Motherwell took 3 of us , Rangers 6 and St Johnstone scored 2 against us at home and could have scored more if they had a striker.

[GreenCastle]

In certain circumstances you can play without a nominated defensive midfielder. Think of our starting cup final team in the 3-5-2 formation for example.

Even if we added Ngolo ****e to the team now, we’d still struggle. As there is a lack of aggression and desire through the whole team. There is no real pressing or hunting in packs type team work when we don’t have the ball. And we’re slow and ponderous on the ball.

So whilst the lack of a DM is a big problem and it’s unfathomable how we’ve got here, it’s still just the tip of the iceberg

True but you compensate by having 3 high energy midfielders.

I wouldn’t classify any of our current midfield as high energy.

Omeonga is the closest we have had for a while.

Milligan and Bartley both read the game and turned the ball over.

Every good team has a natural DM or several players that can run and run and run giving the opposition no time to settle.

[Tyler Durden]

True but you compensate by having 3 high energy midfielders.

I wouldn’t classify any of our current midfield as high energy.

Omeonga is the closest we have had for a while.

Milligan and Bartley both read the game and turned the ball over.

Every good team has a natural DM or several players that can run and run and run giving the opposition no time to settle.

Yeah 100%.

I was happy we let Milligan go. At the time I had faith that Hecky would be bringing in 2 energetic midfielders. I thought with his background in the Championship he’d be focused on pace and athleticism. Probably signing a quick RB also.

Instead we seem to have signed several slow players. Including Newell and Doidge that were types that we never even really needed.

What I also find weird, is that he doesn’t want a DM but we’re not even better in possession... we don’t see any benefit of apparently fielding all these more “rounded” players. It’s a mess

[Sammy7nil]

I don't expect either to be a DM but Allan and Mallan are like a man short out of possession. Both think hanging a leg out for someone to walk round is a tackle. They would be far better just staying out the way.

[rotherhamrob]

I've said elsewhere that a midfield of Stirling, Campbell, gullan and Murray would show more fight and composure than the ***** in there just now.
Is Murray injured?

[RIP]

Ben Stirling isn't the answer either, I don't think he is anywhere near or able to do the DM job, not got the physical presence at all.

Ben must be spitting blood just now watching the cowards handed a first team place. There isn’t a single one who could match him for strength or aggression

[GreenCastle]

We will also pick up yellow cards often = suspensions as Mallan and Allan can’t tackle.

Our right back James is quick but all other new players are slow - even Middleton doesn’t look that fast considering he’s meant to be quick ?

[The Leith Dutch]

We do need to stop playing 5 players who we signed purely for their attacking nous in the same starting XI.
I'm at a ****ing loss as to why the manager is doing that and then being surprised that we're getting overun in midfield.

We did not sign any of Kamberi, Allan, Mallan, Middleton or Horgan to tackle.
I don't mean they get a free pass or shouldn't be trying but it's not why we signed them and it's not what they're good at.

A Defensive Midfielder would be a good signing but even with the players we have - put out a proper midfield.

[DH1875]

We do need to stop playing 5 players who we signed purely for their attacking nous in the same starting XI.
I'm at a ****ing loss as to why the manager is doing that and then being surprised that we're getting overun in midfield.

We did not sign any of Kamberi, Allan, Mallan, Middleton or Horgan to tackle.
I don't mean they get a free pass or shouldn't be trying but it's not why we signed them and it's not what they're good at.

A Defensive Midfielder would be a good signing but even with the players we have - put out a proper midfield.

We should be playing a 4-2-3-1 with a forward line of Horgan, Allan and Middleton with Flo up top. Play Vela or the other new signing in midfield along with a new DM and its job done as far as I'm concerned.

[GreenCastle]

We should be playing a 4-2-3-1 with a forward line of Horgan, Allan and Middleton with Flo up top. Play Vela or the other new signing in midfield along with a new DM and its job done as far as I'm concerned.

Yup.

4-2-3-1 for me or 3-5-2.

Not a midfield that rotates and no one can be arsed sitting in to protect.

2 holding players that stop us leaking goals and tighten everything up.

[CloudSquall]

Is Bartley playing week in week out for Livingston?


Tragic if so.

[LeithMike]

Deleted - didn't reply to post.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[Just Jimmy]

I said a while back we're looking to fill the Bartley roll whilst we just had Marvin Bartley at the club and allowed him to go for free.

it's absolutely criminal considering he was dying to stay and play.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[LeithMike]

True but you compensate by having 3 high energy midfielders.

I wouldn’t classify any of our current midfield as high energy.

Omeonga is the closest we have had for a while.

Milligan and Bartley both read the game and turned the ball over.

Every good team has a natural DM or several players that can run and run and run giving the opposition no time to settle.Good post. Energy is what we lack. You can get away with a slow holding player if you have legs in front. You cant get away with 3 who cant get up and down the park like Mallan, Vela and Alan. I just dont see where Mallan fits into a successful midfield.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[The Leith Dutch]

We should be playing a 4-2-3-1 with a forward line of Horgan, Allan and Middleton with Flo up top. Play Vela or the other new signing in midfield along with a new DM and its job done as far as I'm concerned.


Yup.

4-2-3-1 for me or 3-5-2.

Not a midfield that rotates and no one can be arsed sitting in to protect.

2 holding players that stop us leaking goals and tighten everything up.

:agree:

It's what I'm finding most infuriating about PH - it's staggeringly obvious that we need 2 proper Centre Midfielders playing in the CM roles.
It's not even nuanced - most teams play 2 or 3 people in the starting XI whose job it is to at least compete in the midfield and ideally establish control of it.

I've said before - I think a lot of these head coaches see what the top rated guys like Klopp and Guardiola are doing and get dazzled by how they play.
The problem is that a lot of these formations depend on a lot of context and quality of player.

Tiki-Taka falls apart if the players you can afford often misplace passes.
I also suspect that even if they don't misplace passes if you don't have the same precision and speed of thought as players like Iniesta then you'd get regularly kicked off the ball over the course of a season in Scotland

Same with Klopp's high energy style.
It works brilliantly with players of the calibre of Salah, Mane and Firminho.
It's fabulous if they have the fitness levels of those players, are paid high end EPL wages and have a coach like Klopp who they'd run through a brick wall for.

In short it's not just the formation. Scottish opposition, the quality of player we can afford and the fact that even without insulting him PH is not going to inspire the players to the heights that Klopp and Guardiola will.

PH is trying to be too clever given where he's working and with the resources at his disposal.

[J-C]

Even Klopp realises you need combative midfielders like Henderson, Milner and Fabinho, you can only play expansive football if you have a solid base behind it.

[The Modfather]

:agree:

It's what I'm finding most infuriating about PH - it's staggeringly obvious that we need 2 proper Centre Midfielders playing in the CM roles.
It's not even nuanced - most teams play 2 or 3 people in the starting XI whose job it is to at least compete in the midfield and ideally establish control of it.

I've said before - I think a lot of these head coaches see what the top rated guys like Klopp and Guardiola are doing and get dazzled by how they play.
The problem is that a lot of these formations depend on a lot of context and quality of player.

Tiki-Taka falls apart if the players you can afford often misplace passes.
I also suspect that even if they don't misplace passes if you don't have the same precision and speed of thought as players like Iniesta then you'd get regularly kicked off the ball over the course of a season in Scotland

Same with Klopp's high energy style.
It works brilliantly with players of the calibre of Salah, Mane and Firminho.
It's fabulous if they have the fitness levels of those players, are paid high end EPL wages and have a coach like Klopp who they'd run through a brick wall for.

In short it's not just the formation. Scottish opposition, the quality of player we can afford and the fact that even without insulting him PH is not going to inspire the players to the heights that Klopp and Guardiola will.

PH is trying to be too clever given where he's working and with the resources at his disposal.

Even Klopp acknowledges the need for steel in the midfield. Fabinho, Henderson & Wijnaldum aren’t the most glamorous players but are integral to the flair, energy and attacking talent we all admire about Liverpool.

[J-C]

Even Klopp acknowledges the need for steel in the midfield. Fabinho, Henderson & Wijnaldum aren’t the most glamorous players but are integral to the flair, energy and attacking talent we all admire about Liverpool.

Copycat 😋

[GreenCastle]

:agree:

It's what I'm finding most infuriating about PH - it's staggeringly obvious that we need 2 proper Centre Midfielders playing in the CM roles.
It's not even nuanced - most teams play 2 or 3 people in the starting XI whose job it is to at least compete in the midfield and ideally establish control of it.

I've said before - I think a lot of these head coaches see what the top rated guys like Klopp and Guardiola are doing and get dazzled by how they play.
The problem is that a lot of these formations depend on a lot of context and quality of player.

Tiki-Taka falls apart if the players you can afford often misplace passes.
I also suspect that even if they don't misplace passes if you don't have the same precision and speed of thought as players like Iniesta then you'd get regularly kicked off the ball over the course of a season in Scotland

Same with Klopp's high energy style.
It works brilliantly with players of the calibre of Salah, Mane and Firminho.
It's fabulous if they have the fitness levels of those players, are paid high end EPL wages and have a coach like Klopp who they'd run through a brick wall for.

In short it's not just the formation. Scottish opposition, the quality of player we can afford and the fact that even without insulting him PH is not going to inspire the players to the heights that Klopp and Guardiola will.

PH is trying to be too clever given where he's working and with the resources at his disposal.

Good post.

I watched the game back on Alba and I think 5 passes was the most we made in a row.

5 passes !

Even by Hibs standard that’s awful. We waste loads of energy chasing to get it back.

I feel Hecky is experimenting with us as he plans longer term to be back down south.

Not sure if he cares enough to change it.

[jacomo]

Lennon played him left back when he was at Bolton.


Lennon plays McGregor at left back at Celtc.

[jacomo]

:agree:

It's what I'm finding most infuriating about PH - it's staggeringly obvious that we need 2 proper Centre Midfielders playing in the CM roles.
It's not even nuanced - most teams play 2 or 3 people in the starting XI whose job it is to at least compete in the midfield and ideally establish control of it.

I've said before - I think a lot of these head coaches see what the top rated guys like Klopp and Guardiola are doing and get dazzled by how they play.
The problem is that a lot of these formations depend on a lot of context and quality of player.

Tiki-Taka falls apart if the players you can afford often misplace passes.
I also suspect that even if they don't misplace passes if you don't have the same precision and speed of thought as players like Iniesta then you'd get regularly kicked off the ball over the course of a season in Scotland

Same with Klopp's high energy style.
It works brilliantly with players of the calibre of Salah, Mane and Firminho.
It's fabulous if they have the fitness levels of those players, are paid high end EPL wages and have a coach like Klopp who they'd run through a brick wall for.

In short it's not just the formation. Scottish opposition, the quality of player we can afford and the fact that even without insulting him PH is not going to inspire the players to the heights that Klopp and Guardiola will.

PH is trying to be too clever given where he's working and with the resources at his disposal.


Good post.

I’m a bit concerned that our ‘very thorough’ recruitment process didn’t pick this up. Just what did PH tell Hibs during his interview?

[The Leith Dutch]

Even Klopp acknowledges the need for steel in the midfield. Fabinho, Henderson & Wijnaldum aren’t the most glamorous players but are integral to the flair, energy and attacking talent we all admire about Liverpool.

Yep.

And also, while it's a slight over simplification as there are a fair few at Liverpool who can get goals, it's noticeable he's playing only 3 players whose main asset to the team is their attacking flair. That seems far, far more balanced than our current set up using 5. I include Mallan there as, if you're not playing him for the offensive side of his game he wouldn't be getting a game at all (and there's reasonable argument that even the offensive side isn't delivering right now and I'm sure there's a thread on that anyway).

I'm guessing that if Klopp swapped Henderson and Fabinho for Shaqiri and Origi they'd be getting murdered in midfield too.

[1620]

Good post.

I watched the game back on Alba and I think 5 passes was the most we made in a row.

5 passes !

Even by Hibs standard that’s awful. We waste loads of energy chasing to get it back.

I feel Hecky is experimenting with us as he plans longer term to be back down south.

Not sure if he cares enough to change it.

I also watched it back on Alba and concluded in another post last night that I feel the manager has his own philosophy on how the game should be played and our club are the guinea pigs for his experiment. Get him out. Let him experiment elsewhere.

[MWHIBBIES]

Ben must be spitting blood just now watching the cowards handed a first team place. There isn’t a single one who could match him for strength or aggression

Right, but what about football ability, because that is what you need to win matches.

[Saint Hibee]

Watching the game yesterday, it seems that Liam Donnelly is the exact kind of defensive player we need.

[Steve Austin]

Having surrendered so meekly in midfield this season ,how about Jaoquim Adao as a possible answer!!:rolleyes:.
Yes he was at them in Gorgie,But he is currently at FC sion and available on loan ?.He put himself about and looked like he could pass a ball too?.:agree:
Dont shoot me down !!.

[GreenCastle]

I also watched it back on Alba and concluded in another post last night that I feel the manager has his own philosophy on how the game should be played and our club are the guinea pigs for his experiment. Get him out. Let him experiment elsewhere.

Yup.

He cares but at the same time he seems too stubborn to change shape.

I can’t even see any signs it will work with the players we have or have brought in.

He should go back to basics and make us hard to beat as shipping goals is going to keep us in this mess.

[Captain Trips]

I want somebody with dig right in front of defence that can play simple passes. I don't care if they never score or go past halfway line but in order to have Allan or Mallan away from coming back this type of player is needed.

[Zazu62]

Steven Whittaker? He played last season as a DM. Now he’s back playing as a full back.

[calumhibee1]

Both can sit but they aren’t natural defensive midfielders.

The issue without a ball winning high energy level player is Allan and others waste a lot of energy trying to get the ball back when they should be using up their energy at other end of the park.

The manager is right we are soft - Aberdeen and Hearts will bully us and things could get bad regarding score lines if Motherwell took 3 of us , Rangers 6 and St Johnstone scored 2 against us at home and could have scored more if they had a striker.

Why do so many people keep saying this about Hearts? They may well come to ER and beat us. But they’ve had a worse start to the season than us and a lot of people seem to have us dead to rights for when we play them and some folk even by a few goals.. they’ve not even won a game yet?

[DetroitHibs]

We don’t have a single player at the team that’s actually intimidating. Think it was Mallan that got smashed at the weekend and nobody gave a monkeys. We are soft as ***** and have no enforcer or player that intimidates the opposition. Bartley and McGinn wouldn’t take any of that, they both would make sure the other team knew they were in a game. Now we get bullied all over the shop, it’s embarrassing.

[GreenCastle]

Why do so many people keep saying this about Hearts? They may well come to ER and beat us. But they’ve had a worse start to the season than us and a lot of people seem to have us dead to rights for when we play them and some folk even by a few goals.. they’ve not even won a game yet?

Well they beat Motherwell away in the cup.

If you have watched them the one thing they can do is kick lumps out of teams and get in teams faces.

We will get hammered in the Derby unless something is changed as the current midfield doesn’t have he right balance.

[hibby6270]

Is Bartley playing week in week out for Livingston?


Tragic if so.

He definitely played on Saturday. As to every week? Not sure.

[bigwheel]

Is Bartley playing week in week out for Livingston?


Tragic if so.

Seems to be

[MWHIBBIES]

Is Bartley playing week in week out for Livingston?


Tragic if so.
How is it tragic?