Heckingbottom’s comments on Scott Allan-bizarre

[superfurryhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49515412

Mostly about Kamberi, but near the end he mentions his substitution of Allan and the fans reaction to it getting through to and being off putting for the players.

Not sure if this has been posted before, I never read any .net after the result. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but Heckingbottom is sounding like a man under pressure. Snidey remarks about unwritten rules against subbing Allan ( which clearly isn’t the main concern, it’s more about his piss poor deployment of our best player), then highlighting the booing as a factor in unsettling our players ( which I very much doubt, I’m sure the players are smart enough to know why fans booed and have enough mental strength to deal with it).

Sorry Hecky, you would do well to avoid sounding like a smart arse and maybe show some humility. In the past Allan has often been subbed, we know that, but saying he’ll be subbed again in the future is beside the point. Maybe you could explain you’re strange team formation and address the tepid, uninspiring football your players produced?

[Heisenberg]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49515412

Mostly about Kamberi, but near the end he mentions his substitution of Allan and the fans reaction to it getting through to and being off putting for the players.

Not sure if this has been posted before, I never read any .net after the result. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but Heckingbottom is sounding like a man under pressure. Snidey remarks about unwritten rules against subbing Allan ( which clearly isn’t the main concern, it’s more about his piss poor deployment of our best player), then highlighting the booing as a factor in unsettling our players ( which I very much doubt, I’m sure the players are smart enough to know why fans booed and have enough mental strength to deal with it).

Sorry Hecky, you would do well to avoid sounding like a smart arse and maybe show some humility. In the past Allan has often been subbed, we know that, but saying he’ll be subbed again in the future is beside the point. Maybe you could explain you’re strange team formation and address the tepid, uninspiring football your players produced?

To be fair I picked up on this yesterday too and posted it in another thread. In his Hibs tv interview he goes into detail about his formation and team selection while also talking about the players performance making the fans anxious.

[superfurryhibby]

To be fair I picked up on this yesterday too and posted it in another thread. In his Hibs tv interview he goes into detail about his formation and team selection while also talking about the players performance making the fans anxious.

I never really watch Hibs TV, and fair enough from what you say Heckinbottom has discussed some of the issues, but did you agree with it?

Being a bit of a smart arse isn’t what’s required at the moment and transferring blame to the fans is a clear nonsense.

[Dublin07]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49515412

Mostly about Kamberi, but near the end he mentions his substitution of Allan and the fans reaction to it getting through to and being off putting for the players.

Not sure if this has been posted before, I never read any .net after the result. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but Heckingbottom is sounding like a man under pressure. Snidey remarks about unwritten rules against subbing Allan ( which clearly isn’t the main concern, it’s more about his piss poor deployment of our best player), then highlighting the booing as a factor in unsettling our players ( which I very much doubt, I’m sure the players are smart enough to know why fans booed and have enough mental strength to deal with it).

Sorry Hecky, you would do well to avoid sounding like a smart arse and maybe show some humility. In the past Allan has often been subbed, we know that, but saying he’ll be subbed again in the future is beside the point. Maybe you could explain you’re strange team formation and address the tepid, uninspiring football your players produced?

If you watch his press conference from yesterday he explains his team selection and why he took Scott off. He wanted Allan to come in off the right to create space for kamberi like he did last 20 against St mirren. Admitted it never worked for Allan but did result in kamberi having a good game. Allan was knackered after playing 120 minutes against Norton so didn't have the energy for that role. For me that was heckingbottoms fault as he should never have been asked to play 120 minutes.

He also said that the booing put some players off but they should be able to handle it as professionals.
Also said when we were getting praise last season we were not as good as we were made out and now we are being criticised we are not as bad as people as saying which happens in football all the time.

[bingo70]

To be fair I picked up on this yesterday too and posted it in another thread. In his Hibs tv interview he goes into detail about his formation and team selection while also talking about the players performance making the fans anxious.

Yeah, I gave him stick during the week as I thought he came across as acting the smart arse at the wrong time. In fairness to him though, I thought he dealt with it really well in yesterday’s press conference, he said he didn’t mean to sound flippant, to me at least he’s recognised that’s how it’s come across.

I was waiting for him to say something bad yesterday that everyone would jump on but i don’t think I could disagree or find fault with anything he said.

I’ve got a feeling tomorrow’s game could be a bit of a pivotal moment in our season, a win and it might just calm everyone down, a defeat and I’m not sure he’ll recover, especially with the games we have coming up.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Not exactly helping himself with these type of comments.

[jeffers]

He explained himself but I don’t agree with what he said. If he wants someone to occupy a full back why not play a winger there, occupying fullbacks is what they tend to do. And if he wants Scott Allan to come into the middle why not play him there in the first place. Instead he’s playing him out of position down to not having signed the right type of midfielders while persisting with playing one who if he isn’t taking a dead ball offers nothing.

He’s given us his explanation on what he wants Scott Allan to do and how that’s working out, I’d love a similar explanation regarding Mallan.

[bingo70]

He explained himself but I don’t agree with what he said. If he wants someone to occupy a full back why not play a winger there, occupying fullbacks is what they tend to do. And if he wants Scott Allan to come into the middle why not play him there in the first place. Instead he’s playing him out of position down to not having signed the right type of midfielders while persisting with playing one who if he isn’t taking a dead ball offers nothing.

He’s given us his explanation on what he wants Scott Allan to do and how that’s working out, I’d love a similar explanation regarding Mallan.

I thought the thinking was that Allan would occupy the full back by coming inside, leaving a big hole at the left back area for Flo to run into.

A winger hitting the bye line wouldn’t do that.

[jeffers]

I thought the thinking was that Allan would occupy the full back by coming inside, leaving a big hole at the left back area for Flo to run into.

A winger hitting the bye line wouldn’t do that.

A winger doesn’t just have to hit the bye line, in fact coming inside is what Horgan often does.

[Marvellous]

Are these new bizarre comments or are they the same ones that have been discussed to death since the were made a week ago?

[bigswissstriker]

I think hecky has a problem with how much scotty is liked. He wants to be the main attraction.

[Marvellous]

I think hecky has a problem with how much scotty is liked. He wants to be the main attraction.

Here we go with the infantile pish

[Weegreenman]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49515412

Mostly about Kamberi, but near the end he mentions his substitution of Allan and the fans reaction to it getting through to and being off putting for the players.

Not sure if this has been posted before, I never read any .net after the result. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but Heckingbottom is sounding like a man under pressure. Snidey remarks about unwritten rules against subbing Allan ( which clearly isn’t the main concern, it’s more about his piss poor deployment of our best player), then highlighting the booing as a factor in unsettling our players ( which I very much doubt, I’m sure the players are smart enough to know why fans booed and have enough mental strength to deal with it).

Sorry Hecky, you would do well to avoid sounding like a smart arse and maybe show some humility. In the past Allan has often been subbed, we know that, but saying he’ll be subbed again in the future is beside the point. Maybe you could explain you’re strange team formation and address the tepid, uninspiring football your players produced?

Couldnt agree more. If we win the match, he gets away with this but he’s a man now under pressure. I don’t see him coming back from this. Motherwell away has now become a must win or this place will explode.

[Peevemor]

I think hecky has a problem with how much scotty is liked. He wants to be the main attraction.

I think the opposite is true. From the interview I took it that neither he nor Scott want him to be singled out as some sort of superstar, saying that Scott is very much a team player.

[bigswissstriker]

Here we go with the infantile pish

Hardly infantile, just what I think. He wasn’t his signing and going by heckys other signings I doubt he’d have signed him off his own back, probs would’ve went to England for that type of player. Also, playing him out of position in addition to these bizarre comments. don’t come here telling me I’m talking pish for having an opinion.

[Marvellous]

Hardly infantile, just what I think. He wasn’t his signing and going by heckys other signings I doubt he’d have signed him off his own back, probs would’ve went to England for that type of player. Also, playing him out of position in addition to these bizarre comments. don’t come here telling me I’m talking pish for having an opinion.

You're talking 100%, unadulterated pish.

[Rumble de Thump]

Hardly infantile, just what I think. He wasn’t his signing and going by heckys other signings I doubt he’d have signed him off his own back, probs would’ve went to England for that type of player. Also, playing him out of position in addition to these bizarre comments. don’t come here telling me I’m talking pish for having an opinion.

You're talking pish for having an ill-informed opinion.

[bigswissstriker]

You're talking 100%, unadulterated pish.

In your opinion ☺️

[Marvellous]

In your opinion ☺️

At least be fair to the guy, no point in making up fanciful ideas when he's already taking a fair pounding on the forum.

[jeffers]

I think the opposite is true. From the interview I took it that neither he nor Scott want him to be singled out as some sort of superstar, saying that Scott is very much a team player.

I don’t think anyone is claiming he is a superstar, but he’s arguably our best midfielder and one of our best players. Still not sure convinced PH realises the booing was as much for playing him out of position as it was him being subbed.

If for example he decided to put Kamberi out wide again I’m sure he’d get stick for that too.

[SquashedFrogg]

I think hecky has a problem with how much scotty is liked. He wants to be the main attraction.

Aye, that'll be exactly what's going on 😶

[MWHIBBIES]

Perfectly reasonable comments. Reaction has been ridiculous. He played him right in one game, he tried something new. It didn't work. Its not like he has been playing him out there all season. Scott Allan already has his best goals return in a season for Hibs, Hecky knows how to play him.

[jeffers]

Perfectly reasonable comments. Reaction has been ridiculous. He played him right in one game, he tried something new. It didn't work. Its not like he has been playing him out there all season. Scott Allan already has his best goals return in a season for Hibs, Hecky knows how to play him.

Not true, he started him there against St Mirren.

[Barman Stanton]

Its inevitable the guy is going to have to go. Absolutely everything he says is picked apart by those that dont like him. Every non win will be a disaster. A shame but he is not getting a chance at all.

[HoboHarry]

Another thread criticising our manager. Is this the .net version of Going for 55?

[Keyser Sauzee]

Not true, he started him there against St Mirren.

Not true, he played Newell and Horgan in the wide roles against St Mirren.

[jeffers]

Not true, he played Newell and Horgan in the wide roles against St Mirren.

He was playing right midfield to begin with against St Mirren, not centrally.

[Keyser Sauzee]

He was playing right midfield to begin with against St Mirren, not centrally.

So he had Newell on the left and Horgan and Allan on the right?? Must have missed that

[jacomo]

I never really watch Hibs TV, and fair enough from what you say Heckinbottom has discussed some of the issues, but did you agree with it?

Being a bit of a smart arse isn’t what’s required at the moment and transferring blame to the fans is a clear nonsense.


He’s on the wrong track here and instead of realising that, he’s continued trying to pin the result on anxiety caused by the fans.

There are already a section of fans who haven’t taken to him and he should be doing all he can to win them over. I worry that he doesn’t realise this.

[Barman Stanton]

He’s on the wrong track here and instead of realising that, he’s continued trying to pin the result on anxiety caused by the fans.

There are already a section of fans who haven’t taken to him and he should be doing all he can to win them over. I worry that he doesn’t realise this.

He is being asked direct if the toxic atmosphere at Easter Road is affecting the players. Do you want him to lie and say no?

[jeffers]

So he had Newell on the left and Horgan and Allan on the right?? Must have missed that

Yes you must have. It wasn’t as rigid as it was against St Johnston but he was definitely playing on the right side.

[matty_f]

His press conference was absolutely fine, if anyone gets wound up about it it's because they're looking for something to get wound up about.

[Tyler Durden]

He was playing right midfield to begin with against St Mirren, not centrally.

No. He played centrally number 10. He wandered as you’d expect him to do but that’s totally different from playing right midfield

[Keyser Sauzee]

No. He played centrally number 10. He wandered as you’d expect him to do but that’s totally different from playing right midfield

Exactly

[jeffers]

No. He played centrally number 10. He wandered as you’d expect him to do but that’s totally different from playing right midfield

No. He started off on the right and moved centrally later on in the game. A few of us were commenting on it at the time.

[Keyser Sauzee]

No. He started off on the right and moved centrally later on in the game. A few of us were commenting on it at the time.

A few of u were wrong then. If Allan started on the right, where do u think Horgan started?

[Peevemor]

His press conference was absolutely fine, if anyone gets wound up about it it's because they're looking for something to get wound up about.

Exactly.

[jeffers]

A few of u were wrong then. If Allan started on the right, where do u think Horgan started?

Wider righty and more advanced.

[One Day Soon]

Its inevitable the guy is going to have to go. Absolutely everything he says is picked apart by those that dont like him. Every non win will be a disaster. A shame but he is not getting a chance at all.


Non-wins aren't his problem, the playing style, his signings and his PR are the problem.

The first and last of those could definitely be fixed, the middle one only time will tell.

[The_Horde]

His press conference was absolutely fine, if anyone gets wound up about it it's because they're looking for something to get wound up about.

Scotty on the right was explained to a degree and an example was given of when it worked in our favour.

Not sure anyone is in the wrong for disagreeing with his explanation of why it didn't work last time out either though. Although I don't expect him to explain and give any weaknesses away to opposition managers.

[Barman Stanton]

Non-wins aren't his problem, the playing style, his signings and his PR are the problem.

The first and last of those could definitely be fixed, the middle one only time will tell.

Well I never mentioned what the issues were. I said every non win will be treated like a disaster, and I stick by that.

[Peevemor]

Non-wins aren't his problem, the playing style, his signings and his PR are the problem.

The first and last of those could definitely be fixed, the middle one only time will tell.

I don't see the problem with his PR. I didn't have an issue with what he said immediately post match last Saturday and the press conference during the week was very good IMO.

[SMAXXA]

I think it’s getting pretty tedious the manager talk at the moment. The guy can’t do right for doing wrong and some people will find fault in everything he does and says from now on. I thought he came across fine in his interview and explained his rational which he doesn’t need to do. I don’t think he’s a smart arse I actually think he seems a very decent guy who tries to be as honest as he can. Some people will never take to him so it’s going to be a long repetitive season and beyond when he’s here.

Back the team and get on with it and dare I say try support the man and his coaching team, that’s what supporters do don’t they through the good and the bad.

[nickwhibs]

His press conference was absolutely fine, if anyone gets wound up about it it's because they're looking for something to get wound up about.

Agreed. Feels like every small thing is being scrutinised at the moment. I agree we've been poor lately but let's get behind the team and manager.

[Brightside]

Perfectly reasonable comments. Reaction has been ridiculous. He played him right in one game, he tried something new. It didn't work. Its not like he has been playing him out there all season. Scott Allan already has his best goals return in a season for Hibs, Hecky knows how to play him.

Like this post.

[CMac1988]

It's worth creating a thread each week with a link to the pre-match conference to discuss as whilst they're on Hibs TV they also get uploaded to YouTube.

https://youtu.be/2Hgc5qeIVi4

If anything he's playing down his comments from his post match interview last week whilst still sticking to his point that it was his the decision and the one he thought was right. The video does the interview more justice as whilst I still disagree at least he explains his reasoning which is something many were scratching their heads at.

[SquashedFrogg]

Non-wins aren't his problem, the playing style, his signings and his PR are the problem.

The first and last of those could definitely be fixed, the middle one only time will tell.

I'd argue his PR is far better than our previous manager. A bit more grown up. Our playing style was also poor beginning of last season.

Opinions eh..

[Unseen work]

Against St Mirren we started off with

Horgan.....Allan......Newell....

................Kamberi.


Horgan then got subbed for Doidge where we went

Allan Mallan Vela Newell

Doidge Kamberi


Once we went to the 2 up top Allan drifted in and got the goal.

[JimBHibees]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49515412

Mostly about Kamberi, but near the end he mentions his substitution of Allan and the fans reaction to it getting through to and being off putting for the players.

Not sure if this has been posted before, I never read any .net after the result. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but Heckingbottom is sounding like a man under pressure. Snidey remarks about unwritten rules against subbing Allan ( which clearly isn’t the main concern, it’s more about his piss poor deployment of our best player), then highlighting the booing as a factor in unsettling our players ( which I very much doubt, I’m sure the players are smart enough to know why fans booed and have enough mental strength to deal with it).

Sorry Hecky, you would do well to avoid sounding like a smart arse and maybe show some humility. In the past Allan has often been subbed, we know that, but saying he’ll be subbed again in the future is beside the point. Maybe you could explain you’re strange team formation and address the tepid, uninspiring football your players produced?

Listened to the interview this morning and didn't think his comments were in a smart erse way. Thought his explanation was ok though would have liked him to mention that the performance wasn't great and we invited pressure. These press conferences you need to tend to watch as the journos will try and put a spin on it. Think it was over-emphasised in the BBC article.

https://www.youtube.com/user/HibernianTV

[One Day Soon]

I'd argue his PR is far better than our previous manager. A bit more grown up. Our playing style was also poor beginning of last season.

Opinions eh..


The PR and playing style of the previous manager is completely irrelevant, we only have one manager and that's PH.

It doesn't really matter what the detail of his press conference has been, as soon as he makes any reference to the players being affected by the crowd he's putting himself under pressure because it will be interpreted as it has been by the people who want him out. The much larger block of people who are neither passionately for or against him but who will believe any misrepresentation that is repeated also then start to believe it. It's just poor PR for him to have gone there at all.

As for the playing style, it is just grim to watch at the moment and there's only one way to turn that around. Let's see if he can manage it.

[Peevemor]

Listened to the interview this morning and didn't think his comments were in a smart erse way. Thought his explanation was ok though would have liked him to mention that the performance wasn't great and we invited pressure. These press conferences you need to tend to watch as the journos will try and put a spin on it. Think it was over-emphasised in the BBC article.

https://www.youtube.com/user/HibernianTV

He said something about not being happy with what we did in possession/our use of the ball.

[WeeRussell]

I don’t think anyone is claiming he is a superstar, but he’s arguably our best midfielder and one of our best players. Still not sure convinced PH realises the booing was as much for playing him out of position as it was him being subbed.

If for example he decided to put Kamberi out wide again I’m sure he’d get stick for that too.

For me he's definitely our best midfielder and only Kamberi comes close to competing as our best player in the squad. In fact.. yes he's a superstar :greengrin

I'll need convinced too - as I'm certain the booing was almost completely at Allan's number going up at that point in the game.

[JimBHibees]

Couldnt agree more. If we win the match, he gets away with this but he’s a man now under pressure. I don’t see him coming back from this. Motherwell away has now become a must win or this place will explode.

Well it shouldn't because tomorrow is a tough game of that there is no doubt. Need to bring another 1 or 2 in IMO.

[Unseen work]

Also think Hecky came across well in his interview.

Whittikar also said the fans behaviour was strange at booing when 1-0 up, which I agree with. Also said that it’s the players on the pitch that need to do better.

Hecky can only do so much from the sideline, it’s the players that need to take responsibility on the pitch. He can’t account for own goals and last minute equaliser am.

Really baffles me how some fans think it wouldn’t make the players nervous when they’re acting like that, of course it will have a negative effect.

[BILLYHIBS]

Listened to the interview this morning and didn't think his comments were in a smart erse way. Thought his explanation was ok though would have liked him to mention that the performance wasn't great and we invited pressure. These press conferences you need to tend to watch as the journos will try and put a spin on it. Think it was over-emphasised in the BBC article.

https://www.youtube.com/user/HibernianTV

Invited pressure because we sat too far back last twenty
Hecky was screaming at them to get out and move up the park but we were unable to
We had two to three breakaways that could have made it 3-1 but due to poor choices and rotten play we were unable to capitalise

[JimBHibees]

His press conference was absolutely fine, if anyone gets wound up about it it's because they're looking for something to get wound up about.

Couldn't agree more. Give the guy a chance he will realise more than anyone that the performance on Saturday wasn't good enough. Tomorrow is a tough game and hopefully Hallberg comes in and gives us more presence in the middle of the pitch allowing us to win more ball and get on the attack more.

[GonzoReturns]

Would suggest he’s also trying to protect Scott Allan, what we don’t see/know is how Allan has been during the week. One bad hypo can have a knock on effect for a few days. Did he not allude to that Scott hadn’t been his best during the week. That could have been anything. Agree criticism if he continues to play him out of position etc but some of the comments way over the top.

[JimBHibees]

I think it’s getting pretty tedious the manager talk at the moment. The guy can’t do right for doing wrong and some people will find fault in everything he does and says from now on. I thought he came across fine in his interview and explained his rational which he doesn’t need to do. I don’t think he’s a smart arse I actually think he seems a very decent guy who tries to be as honest as he can. Some people will never take to him so it’s going to be a long repetitive season and beyond when he’s here.

Back the team and get on with it and dare I say try support the man and his coaching team, that’s what supporters do don’t they through the good and the bad.

Agree totally.

[JimBHibees]

He said something about not being happy with what we did in possession/our use of the ball.

Agree he did and that was spot on though only half of it the most obvious problem was IMO we didn't win enough of the ball in the last part of the game. Lots of second balls only one team were winning.

[Stokesy's on fire]

Not a Hecky fan but yesterdays Hibs Tv interview was ok he gave his reasons for the tactics he deployed. Lets see how we do with Hallberg in this team.

[jacomo]

He is being asked direct if the toxic atmosphere at Easter Road is affecting the players. Do you want him to lie and say no?


Well ok, let him bash on and see if it makes him more popular or less popular.

[Borderhibbie76]

I think hecky has a problem with how much scotty is liked. He wants to be the main attraction.That's just not true...some on here are just posting utter nonsense and drivel and u are one of the biggest culprits. The jury is well and truly out on Hecky I agree but stop making up nonsense mate...hes explained his comments and his reasoning behind where he played allan and why he was subbed

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Barman Stanton]

Well ok, let him bash on and see if it makes him more popular or less popular.

Its only upsetting those that are picking up on every little thing he is saying. Of course the constant boo'ing and moaning at Easter Road will affect the players. Doesn't take a genius to realise that. Why him saying so would upset anyone is beyond me.

[Itsnoteasy]

If you watch his press conference from yesterday he explains his team selection and why he took Scott off. He wanted Allan to come in off the right to create space for kamberi like he did last 20 against St mirren. Admitted it never worked for Allan but did result in kamberi having a good game. Allan was knackered after playing 120 minutes against Norton so didn't have the energy for that role. For me that was heckingbottoms fault as he should never have been asked to play 120 minutes.

He also said that the booing put some players off but they should be able to handle it as professionals.
Also said when we were getting praise last season we were not as good as we were made out and now we are being criticised we are not as bad as people as saying which happens in football all the time.

A whole 120mins for a professional athlete, he must have been £u@k3d.

[Sammy7nil]

Its inevitable the guy is going to have to go. Absolutely everything he says is picked apart by those that dont like him. Every non win will be a disaster. A shame but he is not getting a chance at all.

If fans could see his plan, improvement in style, his signings making an improvement I am sure he would get time. The problem is none of that is apperent and we appear to be going backward. Nothing he has promised "high press or improved fitness" has happened he needs to deliver something positive.

[Borderhibbie76]

Its inevitable the guy is going to have to go. Absolutely everything he says is picked apart by those that dont like him. Every non win will be a disaster. A shame but he is not getting a chance at all.This in spades mate...really disappointed in a large element of our support at the moment. We are hounding the guy out simple as that. Dont get me wrong I'm nowhere near convinced about Hecky at all..but he deserves a bit longer than a month into the new season...in which weve lost 1 match albeit a heavy defeat and some poor-ish performances.

I dont think he will be here much longer tho

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[pollution]

Calm down everyone. This is a re-hash of a previous thread. I criticised him then but give him a chance against Motherwell.

[Since452]

Couldnt agree more. If we win the match, he gets away with this but he’s a man now under pressure. I don’t see him coming back from this. Motherwell away has now become a must win or this place will explode.

10 seconds or so away from a win. Thats football for you.

[Barman Stanton]

If fans could see his plan, improvement in style, his signings making an improvement I am sure he would get time. The problem is none of that is apperent and we appear to be going backward. Nothing he has promised "high press or improved fitness" has happened he needs to deliver something positive.

I agree, its not going well at the moment. But the reaction is way over the top. Perhaps give the team and manager a break from all the negativity and actually support them (dont mean you personally). Never know with a bit of breathing space and support we might get better performances.

[The_Horde]

Agree he did and that was spot on though only half of it the most obvious problem was IMO we didn't win enough of the ball in the last part of the game. Lots of second balls only one team were winning.

Glad someone else seen this as well. Defence were absolutely fine and if it wasn't for the offside goal they'd be getting praised for being strong.

The actual backs to the wall side of it in the last 10 wasn't unlike something that happened in similar situations under Stubbs or Lennon, these things happens in football sometimes.

The difference, for me, was the midfield under those guys would get the ball and get us up the pitch either on the counter or to buy some time.

Our midfield last saturday were way too deep and posted. missing

[Weir07]

His press conference was absolutely fine, if anyone gets wound up about it it's because they're looking for something to get wound up about.

Exactly, watched his pre match press conference on YouTube this morning and he came across well, some people seem to have an agenda against him, which is odd. Let's judge at the end of the season, instead of putting a negative spin on every half heard story. My own view is the jury is out on him but the borderline hysteria that seems to be on this forum is beyond belief and something that truly is bizzare.

[Groathillgrump]

I think it’s getting pretty tedious the manager talk at the moment. The guy can’t do right for doing wrong and some people will find fault in everything he does and says from now on. I thought he came across fine in his interview and explained his rational which he doesn’t need to do. I don’t think he’s a smart arse I actually think he seems a very decent guy who tries to be as honest as he can. Some people will never take to him so it’s going to be a long repetitive season and beyond when he’s here.

Back the team and get on with it and dare I say try support the man and his coaching team, that’s what supporters do don’t they through the good and the bad



:top marks Great post SMAXXA

Too many people trying to twist everything Hecky says to support their own agenda.

He gave what seemed to me a perfectly reasonable explanation of why he subbed Scott. I, like many others, didn't agree with it at the time but he's the gaffer and making unpopular decisions comes with the territory.

Let's hope we can put on a good display on Saturday and bag the three points. Maybe that'll get rid of some of the negativity that seems to be infecting sections of the support.

[Dmas]

I'd argue his PR is far better than our previous manager. A bit more grown up. Our playing style was also poor beginning of last season.

Opinions eh..

Beginning of last 2 seasons we’ve been poor and saved the seasons by a decent January window both times.

[WeeRussell]

10 seconds or so away from a win. Thats football for you.

Annoying thing for me is you could spot the equaliser coming long before that. We were hanging on with a capital H and O, at home to St Johnstone.

[The Harp Awakes]

He is being asked direct if the toxic atmosphere at Easter Road is affecting the players. Do you want him to lie and say no?

I don't agree with the question. I don't think the atmosphere at Easter Road is toxic.

I think fans care and are getting frustrated for a number of reasons. We were looking for an improvement in the quality of player and performances over last season and on the evidence of what we've seen so far, both have deteriorated. The style of football being played is laboured and unattractive. The way the Manager has set up the team so far, at best, has been questionable and his substitutions have been strange and ineffective .

In response to the fans frustration, the Manager has tried to shift some of the blame onto the fans; not acceptable and way off the mark. He's in charge and needs to take responsibility to sort it out.

[Peevemor]

I don't agree with the question. I don't think the atmosphere at Easter Road is toxic.

I think fans care and are getting frustrated for a number of reasons. We were looking for an improvement in the quality of player and performances over last season and on the evidence of what we've seen so far, both have deteriorated. The style of football being played is laboured and unattractive. The way the Manager has set up the team so far, at best, has been questionable and his substitutions have been strange and ineffective .

In response to the fans frustration, the Manager has tried to shift some of the blame onto the fans; not acceptable and way off the mark. He's in charge and needs to take responsibility to sort it out.

But he hasn't. He said that, being a football fan himself, that he understands fan frustration. He said that the players, staff & himself have to be able to deal with that.

[The Harp Awakes]

But he hasn't. He said that, being a football fan himself, that he understands fan frustration. He said that the players, staff & himself have to be able to deal with that.

Without dissecting word for what he said, clearly he has raised the matter in an attempt to deflect the blame from himself.

Not a sensible move IMO.

[Barman Stanton]

Without dissecting word for what he said, clearly he has raised the matter in an attempt to deflect the blame from himself.

Not a sensible move IMO.

He never raised anything. He was asked a question by a journalist. And you can see he is reluctant to discuss it but is pushed for an answer. Journalists are not daft. They know the Hibs support have it in for him and are twisting the knife.

[007]

But he hasn't. He said that, being a football fan himself, that he understands fan frustration. He said that the players, staff & himself have to be able to deal with that.

Unfortunately some are scrutinising his every word and then misrepresenting what he said.

Worth watching his interview (link has already been posted but here it is again). Though no doubt folk will find more flaws in what he's said.

https://youtu.be/2Hgc5qeIVi4

[Danderhall Hibs]

A whole 120mins for a professional athlete, he must have been £u@k3d.

Were his blood sugar levels and that all ok?

[flash]

Without dissecting word for what he said, clearly he has raised the matter in an attempt to deflect the blame from himself.

Not a sensible move IMO.

Except that isn't remotely close to what happened in the press conference.

[jeffers]

Watched his interview again. He came across well, genuine and explained himself. I thought at the time his comment about there being a rule regarding substituting Scott Allan did him no favours and made came across as a smartarse. However he's said he didn't mean to be flippant so deserves some slack.

I'm hoping he recognises Scott Allan should be played more centrally so that both he and Kamberi, not just the latter, can be utulised to the best of their ability.

[ahibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49515412

Mostly about Kamberi, but near the end he mentions his substitution of Allan and the fans reaction to it getting through to and being off putting for the players.

Not sure if this has been posted before, I never read any .net after the result. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but Heckingbottom is sounding like a man under pressure. Snidey remarks about unwritten rules against subbing Allan ( which clearly isn’t the main concern, it’s more about his piss poor deployment of our best player), then highlighting the booing as a factor in unsettling our players ( which I very much doubt, I’m sure the players are smart enough to know why fans booed and have enough mental strength to deal with it).

Sorry Hecky, you would do well to avoid sounding like a smart arse and maybe show some humility. In the past Allan has often been subbed, we know that, but saying he’ll be subbed again in the future is beside the point. Maybe you could explain you’re strange team formation and address the tepid, uninspiring football your players produced?

Sorry mate but I disagree. It's apparent that this team of ours, and perhaps all teams, respond positively to support and negatively to their own support clearly turning against the team. The team includes the coaching staff, not just the players, they are all in it together. Scott Allan has to be substituted in games from time to time and for the crowd to specifically choose that time to boo, is a poor show. Let's not forget that the boos came from one segment, albeit a significant one, in the East stand. There was no booing in the area of the west stand upper north where I was, and the fans that surround me have been going for forty years and more. We were disappointed at the booing and we all agree that it is not the way to support the team and influence change, when change is needed. We have a fans rep who reads this and other forums who is very capable of presenting our views. There is no need to air our frustrations in public in a way that can negatively affect the players. Anyone who has played sport at a high level can testify that crowd reaction can have an affect.

As far as the coach is concerned, he can't please everyone. Supporters on this forum have been crying out for two up front, which is nonsense considering we have a midfield that is built to attack more than defend, but never the less, he gave them two up front. As a result Scott Allan is played out of position, you and I might have done it differently but he is the man on the spot and knows what's happening behind the scenes, something that we do not. Despite the negativity and possible errors in selection we should have held on and won the game. I don't know about uninspiring either, I think they showed a lot of character in the way they responded to the first equaliser and it was slick football that led up to that and a slick finish. We weren't to shabby on our way to going one up either. After our second though, yes we failed to dominate midfield which allowed them to mount attack after attack. The coach will have seen that and if he doesn't address it then we have significant grounds for complaint. He has brought in another midfielder, one who can score so he adds to the attacking ability the team already has and really attack is not the problem it's winning the ball in midfield to take some pressure of our defence and mount more attacks. Let's see him address that before we vehemently complain. He'd better address it.

[AlbertK86]

Yeah, I gave him stick during the week as I thought he came across as acting the smart arse at the wrong time. In fairness to him though, I thought he dealt with it really well in yesterday’s press conference, he said he didn’t mean to sound flippant, to me at least he’s recognised that’s how it’s come across.

I was waiting for him to say something bad yesterday that everyone would jump on but i don’t think I could disagree or find fault with anything he said.

I’ve got a feeling tomorrow’s game could be a bit of a pivotal moment in our season, a win and it might just calm everyone down, a defeat and I’m not sure he’ll recover, especially with the games we have coming up.

Agree ... thought he explained everything articulately and put context around his comments perceived to be disrespectful to fans and how Scotty was deployed. Said he knows he is far better in the middle and that he wants him on the pitch as much as possible cause he is such a technically gifted player. Recognised the best play/pass of the day was the one when he did move inside and threaded it through for Doidge


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Smartie]

I really like him.

All of his comments have made sense this week when you actually hear them from the horse's mouth and not manipulated by all sorts of folk for all sorts of agendas.

I don't like our midfield at present and I'm not sure whether or not he's happy with what he has. His job depends on it though, a couple of hours enjoyment every Saturday is all that is at stake for me.

We should be very, very careful about twisting every word that comes out of a manager's mouth and constantly clamouring for change as that can become a very difficult and expensive cycle once you're in it. We should know, we were there not long ago.

Our team reeks of "transition" at the moment which is not really acceptable given the amount of money the club have taken in in recent years.

He most certainly will be getting the benefit of the doubt from me.

[Captain Trips]

Interview is fine but the crowd had FA to do with any part of the performance. Nothing transferred anywhere from the stands. They didnt play well enough.

[matty_f]

Glad someone else seen this as well. Defence were absolutely fine and if it wasn't for the offside goal they'd be getting praised for being strong.

The actual backs to the wall side of it in the last 10 wasn't unlike something that happened in similar situations under Stubbs or Lennon, these things happens in football sometimes.

The difference, for me, was the midfield under those guys would get the ball and get us up the pitch either on the counter or to buy some time.

Our midfield last saturday were way too deep and posted. missing

I agree with that. The midfield were the culprits on Saturday, wrong options taken time and time again, or right options executed badly.

We had a few opportunities to break that fell apart due to our own failings rather than any good play by St Johnstone.

[matty_f]

Interview is fine but the crowd had FA to do with any part of the performance. Nothing transferred anywhere from the stands. They didnt play well enough.

How do you know this?

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Scott Allan played left mid under NL a few times. But because he was contributing to a much better team it was ok?

I missed the game last week so won't comment on individual performances but it seems to me that a select few have already identified Hecky as a "FRAUD" a "****" amongst many unsavoury expletives which I'm extremely uncomfortable with, therefore anything that doesn't go to plan MUST be his fault.

Massive game tomorrow so early on in his reign as so many are against the manager and some of the players already.

[Captain Trips]

How do you know this?

Was my opinion after I first heard it and was then mentioned by one of the players who is quoted. People given what goes on in stands way to much kudos I am reading guff like "toxic" ffs that was a walk in the park to some of the past 10 years.

We have cheered the club on in our 1000s and lost, we have been unhappy in stands and won. What you or I do really is not such a big factor in how we will play. The only thing for me that will affect a player is singling out.

“I don’t think the supporters’ anxiety seeped through to the players" Adam Jackson

[Barman Stanton]

Was my opinion after I first heard it and was then mentioned by one of the players who is quoted. People given what goes on in stands way to much kudos I am reading guff like "toxic" ffs that was a walk i the park to some of the past 10 years.

“I don’t think the supporters’ anxiety seeped through to the players" Adam Jackson

Decent interview with super Joe discussing abuse. Wont affect everyone but will certainly affect some.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibernian/interview-hibs-cult-hero-joe-tortolano-on-why-he-considered-ending-it-all-1-4916208

[hibsbollah]

Interview is fine but the crowd had FA to do with any part of the performance. Nothing transferred anywhere from the stands. They didnt play well enough.

You said this at the start of the week as well. With no evidence to contradict the reality that was staring us all in the face, that there was unprecedented booing of a substitution followed by an increased nervousness on the part of the players.

I think you're just defending a line you've taken without thinking it through.

But you also said at the start of the week that you reject proven psychological facts about criticism negatively affecting sporting performance. So there's actually no point me posting any further, its just another round earth vs flat earth debate:thumbsup:

[matty_f]

You said this at the start of the week as well. With no evidence to contradict the reality that was staring us all in the face, that there was unprecedented booing of a substitution followed by an increased nervousness on the part of the players.

I think you're just defending a line you've taken without thinking it through.

But you also said at the start of the week that you reject proven psychological facts about criticism negatively affecting sporting performance. So there's actually no point me posting any further, its just another round earth vs flat earth debate:thumbsup:

:agree:

[hibsbollah]

Decent interview with super Joe discussing abuse. Wont affect everyone but will certainly affect some.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibernian/interview-hibs-cult-hero-joe-tortolano-on-why-he-considered-ending-it-all-1-4916208

There's some interesting comments from Joe there, but I could tell Aidan Smith wrote that two sentences in by his strangled grasp on the basics of grammar and weird writing style. I just don't know how the guy became a published writer and journalist. That Heartfelt book literally burned my eyes right back into my sockets.

[Captain Trips]

You said this at the start of the week as well. With no evidence to contradict the reality that was staring us all in the face, that there was unprecedented booing of a substitution followed by an increased nervousness on the part of the players.

I think you're just defending a line you've taken without thinking it through.

But you also said at the start of the week that you reject proven psychological facts about criticism negatively affecting sporting performance. So there's actually no point me posting any further, its just another round earth vs flat earth debate:thumbsup:

You said it affects everyone I showed you it doesnt.

"booing of a substitution followed by an increased nervousness on the part of the players" So Adam Jackson is lying?

[007]

Was my opinion after I first heard it and was then mentioned by one of the players who is quoted. People given what goes on in stands way to much kudos I am reading guff like "toxic" ffs that was a walk in the park to some of the past 10 years.

We have cheered the club on in our 1000s and lost, we have been unhappy in stands and won. What you or I do really is not such a big factor in how we will play. The only thing for me that will affect a player is singling out.

“I don’t think the supporters’ anxiety seeped through to the players" Adam Jackson

To strengthen your case about the booing you are saying cheering the team on doesn't help them. Have to disagree with that. IMO that point weakens your argument.

[hibeerealist]

If you watch his press conference from yesterday he explains his team selection and why he took Scott off. He wanted Allan to come in off the right to create space for kamberi like he did last 20 against St mirren. Admitted it never worked for Allan but did result in kamberi having a good game. Allan was knackered after playing 120 minutes against Norton so didn't have the energy for that role. For me that was heckingbottoms fault as he should never have been asked to play 120 minutes.

He also said that the booing put some players off but they should be able to handle it as professionals.
Also said when we were getting praise last season we were not as good as we were made out and now we are being criticised we are not as bad as people as saying which happens in football all the time.


Making it up as he goes along. It was very evident from early on in the match that SA out wide was NOT working, rather than change it (an admission that this permutation may not have worked) he left it until he subbed Scotty.

Hecky not doing himself any favours speaking like this as many of us will see right through it!!

[Captain Trips]

To strengthen your case about the booing you are saying cheering the team on doesn't help them. Have to disagree with that. IMO that point weakens your argument.

I didnt say that I suggest it isnt as big a factor in performance as some may hope. Some players will get boost some maybe just dont even think about it and that maybe same if atmosphere is not as good.

[ahibby]

Was my opinion after I first heard it and was then mentioned by one of the players who is quoted. People given what goes on in stands way to much kudos I am reading guff like "toxic" ffs that was a walk in the park to some of the past 10 years.

We have cheered the club on in our 1000s and lost, we have been unhappy in stands and won. What you or I do really is not such a big factor in how we will play. The only thing for me that will affect a player is singling out.

“I don’t think the supporters’ anxiety seeped through to the players" Adam Jackson

That's fair enough mate, it's my opinion that booing towards our collective team (including coaching staff), does have an effect on players. Steven Whittaker has said he noticed it and at 1-0 up was surprised by it. However, even though I wouldn't boo in a situation like last Saturday, not saying I'd never have cause to boo for something I'm only human too, I have to admit that the team didn't play well in general during the game. The shape looked wrong but as the coach has said it has been used before and we've won. I've said before that we need to win more ball in midfield and when we do we should be in a better place. I listened to PH interview a couple of times and the way he explains the technical reasons for playing SA wider tells me that he has already put a lot of thought in to it, it has worked before, and he has thought deeper in to it than any fan can as we should expect. We all have our views though and are entitled to them.

[matty_f]

You said it affects everyone I showed you it doesnt.

"booing of a substitution followed by an increased nervousness on the part of the players" So Adam Jackson is lying?

You also said it affected nobody.

[WhileTheChief..]

I agree, its not going well at the moment. But the reaction is way over the top. Perhaps give the team and manager a break from all the negativity and actually support them (dont mean you personally). Never know with a bit of breathing space and support we might get better performances.

The team has had great support at every game this season.

We were humpty in the league cup games, that was nowt to do with lack of support from the stands.

[hibsbollah]

You said it affects everyone I showed you it doesnt.

"booing of a substitution followed by an increased nervousness on the part of the players" So Adam Jackson is lying?

He's not lying, but as far as I know he's a Hibs player. He is not an academic, and has not published a peer reviewed scientific paper on sports psychology.

[Barman Stanton]

There's some interesting comments from Joe there, but I could tell Aidan Smith wrote that two sentences in by his strangled grasp on the basics of grammar and weird writing style. I just don't know how the guy became a published writer and journalist. That Heartfelt book literally burned my eyes right back into my sockets.

Is that the book where he supports Hearts for a year? Couldnt get my head around that at all.

[007]

I didnt say that I suggest it isnt as big a factor in performance as some may hope. Some players will get boost some maybe just dont even think about it and that maybe same if atmosphere is not as good.

Sorry but I disagree. You often hear players acknowledging the part the fans played in a win, particularly a big win.

If what the fans do makes little difference then there's very little point in cheering or singing.

[Captain Trips]

You also said it affected nobody.

Of individuals? I do not believe every single sportsperson is affected by it no. However as per Saturday the matter at hand is Adam Jackson lying then?

[hibeerealist]

Not true, he started him there against St Mirren.

He may even start SA there v Motherwell :confused: too!!!

[hibsbollah]

Is that the book where he supports Hearts for a year? Couldnt get my head around that at all.

You are not alone:greengrin It actually made me a bit queasy.

[Captain Trips]

Sorry but I disagree. You often hear players acknowledging the part the fans played in a win, particularly a big win.

If what the fans do makes little difference then there's very little point in cheering or singing.

Yeah you often hear players and managers saying lots of stuff, why no point in cheering a goal? not a happy event? I said it doesnt have a big affect did i say it had zero?

[matty_f]

Of individuals? I do not believe every single sportsperson is affected by it no. However as per Saturday the matter at hand is Adam Jackson lying then?

He's not lying but he's also not necessarily right - do you think he went and asked everyone first?

You said "Interview is fine but the crowd had FA to do with any part of the performance. Nothing transferred anywhere from the stands."

You're ok to dismiss Heckingbottom's claim that it did but hang your hat on Jackson's statement that he didn't think it did. It's a ridiculous position.

[Captain Trips]

He's not lying but he's also not necessarily right - do you think he went and asked everyone first?

You said "Interview is fine but the crowd had FA to do with any part of the performance. Nothing transferred anywhere from the stands."

You're ok to dismiss Heckingbottom's claim that it did but hang your hat on Jackson's statement that he didn't think it did. It's a ridiculous position.

Why are you hanging your hat on PH? PH obviuosly didnt ask everyone then did he or again is Jackson lying?

PH or you or me were not playing he was giving an opinion on Jackson and other 10 and he was one of the players who could only actually know this to be true or not, not PH. he stated it didnt affect the players so therefore AJ must have spoken to them, so I think your point is ridiculous.

Paul heckingbottom wasnt playing was he? It transferred to the "players" is his opinion, Jackson says different with what can only be facts as he was a "player". Of course I will dismiss his claim he was not playing and Jackson was.

So can you please clarify how its ridiculous I am going with the thoughts of one of the "players" who states it didnt affect them as a pose to the thoughts of the manager who was not playing?

[jeffers]

Just so I'm clear, there were three occasions on Saturday when a significant number of the crowd booed ? Once at the substitution, once at St Johnstone's first equaliser and finally at their second ? We scored a minute after their first goal and the game ended almost immediately after their second.

Of course the booing didn't help, but I'm not convinced it had much impact at all. Not only that but these instances all occured in the second half, yet Heckingbottom admits the side were anxious in the first half, so what caused that ?

[hibeerealist]

Sorry mate but I disagree. It's apparent that this team of ours, and perhaps all teams, respond positively to support and negatively to their own support clearly turning against the team. The team includes the coaching staff, not just the players, they are all in it together. Scott Allan has to be substituted in games from time to time and for the crowd to specifically choose that time to boo, is a poor show. Let's not forget that the boos came from one segment, albeit a significant one, in the East stand. There was no booing in the area of the west stand upper north where I was, and the fans that surround me have been going for forty years and more. We were disappointed at the booing and we all agree that it is not the way to support the team and influence change, when change is needed. We have a fans rep who reads this and other forums who is very capable of presenting our views. There is no need to air our frustrations in public in a way that can negatively affect the players. Anyone who has played sport at a high level can testify that crowd reaction can have an affect.

As far as the coach is concerned, he can't please everyone. Supporters on this forum have been crying out for two up front, which is nonsense considering we have a midfield that is built to attack more than defend, but never the less, he gave them two up front. As a result Scott Allan is played out of position, you and I might have done it differently but he is the man on the spot and knows what's happening behind the scenes, something that we do not. Despite the negativity and possible errors in selection we should have held on and won the game. I don't know about uninspiring either, I think they showed a lot of character in the way they responded to the first equaliser and it was slick football that led up to that and a slick finish. We weren't to shabby on our way to going one up either. After our second though, yes we failed to dominate midfield which allowed them to mount attack after attack. The coach will have seen that and if he doesn't address it then we have significant grounds for complaint. He has brought in another midfielder, one who can score so he adds to the attacking ability the team already has and really attack is not the problem it's winning the ball in midfield to take some pressure of our defence and mount more attacks. Let's see him address that before we vehemently complain. He'd better address it.

I would be surprised if the players thought they were being booed, I sit in the East and it was clear that the boos were a reaction to SA going off NOT Slivka and Horgan coming on however you go ahead and paint it your way. To say the boos only came from the East is untrue.

Of course a crowd booing their own team will put them off but this is not what happened, the players were not being booed and the only other time I heard boos was at the end of the game which is not unexpected given the result.

[flash]

The team has had great support at every game this season.

We were humpty in the league cup games, that was nowt to do with lack of support from the stands.

Those games were played in near silence.

[Keith_M]

He explained himself but I don’t agree with what he said. If he wants someone to occupy a full back why not play a winger there, occupying fullbacks is what they tend to do. And if he wants Scott Allan to come into the middle why not play him there in the first place. Instead he’s playing him out of position down to not having signed the right type of midfielders while persisting with playing one who if he isn’t taking a dead ball offers nothing.




Agreed.

Explaining his logic in where he played Allan, and what he expected of him merely served to confirm the suspicion that he doesn't realise what Allan's best role is, which is quite worrying.

[Keith_M]

Those games were played in near silence.



At the Stirling game, it was extremely quiet. It felt like everybody was still in holiday mode.

[Barman Stanton]

Just so I'm clear, there were three occasions on Saturday when a significant number of the crowd booed ? Once at the substitution, once at St Johnston's first equaliser and finally at their second ? We scored a minute after their first goal and the game ended almost immediately after their second.

Of course the booing didn't help, but I'm not convinced it had much impact at all. Not only that but these instances all occured in the second half, yet Heckingbottom admits the side were anxious in the first half, so what caused that ?

Cant you feel the restlessness around the stadium? The groans at misplaced passes, the grumbling etc. There is more to it than just booing individual moments. The atmosphere is just different this season.

[MWHIBBIES]

Not true, he started him there against St Mirren.

He definitely didn't, Horgan was on the right.

[BILLYHIBS]

At the Stirling game, it was extremely quiet. It felt like everybody was still in holiday mode.

Agree

Weird wasn’t it?

[CRAZYHIBBY]

The boos have to stop but at the same time players who play for hibs need a stronger mentality

[jeffers]

He definitely didn't, Horgan was on the right.

He definitely did. Horgan was further right and more advanced. It wasn't as rigid as last Saturday but he was not playing centrally. Heckingbottom even talks about him coming off the right against them in his interview yesterday and him scoring as a result of it.

[Captain Trips]

It does appear that some people have made up their minds already on PH and it seems to be quite a few. His set up vs Sevco and St J I was not impressed with but he still should get time to see how everyone beds in and we get settled.

[#2 Double Tap]

Cant you feel the restlessness around the stadium? The groans at misplaced passes, the grumbling etc. There is more to it than just booing individual moments. The atmosphere is just different this season.

:gwa::nlgwa now it is :rolleyes:.

Fans are unhappy and expressing it in large numbers because the play has been so dull, that falls at the managers door. Managers have different personalities and philosophies regards playing style which is no biggy. The problem with the atmosphere comes about mainly because heckingbottom sold the fans a philosophy that seems to have been based on fantasy. We appear to be playing a style that is the opposite of the one he told us we would be seeing imo. An example of this idea is why jose mourinho wouldn't or was never considered for the barca job.

[bingo70]

It does appear that some people have made up their minds already on PH and it seems to be quite a few. His set up vs Sevco and St J I was not impressed with but he still should get time to see how everyone beds in and we get settled.

In fairness the bad feeling towards him isn’t anything a couple of good results won’t fix.

A win tomorrow and there’s a completely different atmosphere about the place IMO.

I’ve been critical of him and I’m not convinced he’ll turn it around but he’s certainly got plenty time to do so.

[jeffers]

Cant you feel the restlessness around the stadium? The groans at misplaced passes, the grumbling etc. There is more to it than just booing individual moments. The atmosphere is just different this season.

It's not great but think it's a bit flat more than anything. I've seen it described on here as toxic and horrendous, I can't say I've felt that. I have admitted I was surprised at the reaction to St J's goal on Saturday, it is clear amongst some fans Heckingbottom is not at all popular.

[SMAXXA]

:top marks Great post SMAXXA

Too many people trying to twist everything Hecky says to support their own agenda.

He gave what seemed to me a perfectly reasonable explanation of why he subbed Scott. I, like many others, didn't agree with it at the time but he's the gaffer and making unpopular decisions comes with the territory.

Let's hope we can put on a good display on Saturday and bag the three points. Maybe that'll get rid of some of the negativity that seems to be infecting sections of the support.

I just find it frustrating when you see the abuse the mans getting and people sending him tweets saying get out our club etc etc, it’s totally out of order imo. I’m not saying anyone is beyond criticism and everything is always rosey but I do choose to believe that Hibernian FC stand for much more than behaviour like that. I’m proud of our club and for what I believe it stands for is triumph over adversity and supporting each other and having each other’s back amongst others. Hounding a man out at this stage is a disgrace imo and some of the comments from so called fans are exactly the same, a disgrace. Again that’s not me saying it because they have a different opinion than myself and I’m not entirely convinced all the abuse is from Hibs fans but have a wee bit of class and respect and try and be balanced.

We need solidarity and everyone pulling in the same direction, aye it won’t always be plain sailing but a bit patience and support I guarantee we will be better for that, wether Hecky is the man longer term or not.

[Barman Stanton]

It's not great but think it's a bit flat more than anything. I've seen it described on here as toxic and horrendous, I can't say I've felt that. I have admitted I was surprised at the reaction to St J's goal on Saturday, it is clear amongst some fans Heckingbottom is not at all popular.

Yeah as much as I want him to be given a chance, I think its probably better he goes sooner rather than later. Many have never and just wont take to him. I just hope the next manager gets a bit more support.

[Captain Trips]

In fairness the bad feeling towards him isn’t anything a couple of good results won’t fix.

A win tomorrow and there’s a completely different atmosphere about the place IMO.

I’ve been critical of him and I’m not convinced he’ll turn it around but he’s certainly got plenty time to do so.

As I say not happy with the setup on a couple of occasions and the topic at hand not impressed "suggesting" the fans had an effect on result when told by a player it was not a factor. He got it wrong as did some players and they need to sort it. He should be given the time to do so.

[BILLYHIBS]

I just find it frustrating when you see the abuse the mans getting and people sending him tweets saying get out our club etc etc, it’s totally out of order imo. I’m not saying anyone is beyond criticism and everything is always rosey but I do choose to believe that Hibernian FC stand for much more than behaviour like that. I’m proud of our club and for what I believe it stands for is triumph over adversity and supporting each other and having each other’s back amongst others. Hounding a man out at this stage is a disgrace imo and some of the comments from so called fans are exactly the same, a disgrace. Again that’s not me saying it because they have a different opinion than myself and I’m not entirely convinced all the abuse is from Hibs fans but have a wee bit of class and respect and try and be balanced.

We need solidarity and everyone pulling in the same direction, aye it won’t always be plain saying but a bit patience and support I guarantee we will be better for that, wether Hecky is the man longer term or not.
Shan patter if fellow hibbies are tweeting the man direct to his personal twitter account and telling him to get the” f*#k out of our club”

No respect!

What are we coming to?

Dearie me!

[JimBHibees]

I just find it frustrating when you see the abuse the mans getting and people sending him tweets saying get out our club etc etc, it’s totally out of order imo. I’m not saying anyone is beyond criticism and everything is always rosey but I do choose to believe that Hibernian FC stand for much more than behaviour like that. I’m proud of our club and for what I believe it stands for is triumph over adversity and supporting each other and having each other’s back amongst others. Hounding a man out at this stage is a disgrace imo and some of the comments from so called fans are exactly the same, a disgrace. Again that’s not me saying it because they have a different opinion than myself and I’m not entirely convinced all the abuse is from Hibs fans but have a wee bit of class and respect and try and be balanced.

We need solidarity and everyone pulling in the same direction, aye it won’t always be plain saying but a bit patience and support I guarantee we will be better for that, wether Hecky is the man longer term or not.

Agree totally big difference between having some concerns to behaving in a moronic way.

[WhileTheChief..]

Too many people trying to twist everything Hecky says to support their own agenda.


Seen this mentioned a lot recently, what agenda is it you guys think others have? What do you actually mean by using the word agenda here?

Could it not simply be that some of us are more concerned about what we are seeing than others?

No agenda, no spitting feathers or bed-wetting, just a different view to yours?

[Captain Trips]

Seen this mentioned a lot recently, what agenda is it you guys think others have? What do you actually mean by using the word agenda here?

Could it not simply be that some of us are more concerned about what we are seeing than others?

No agenda, no spitting feathers or bed-wetting, just a different view to yours?

Everyones agenda on here is the same we want Hibs to win, some boo hoping it enforces change some cheer hoping it inspires irrespective of all that nobody is entering ER hoping we play pish and lose however they convey this.

[matty_f]

Why are you hanging your hat on PH? PH obviuosly didnt ask everyone then did he or again is Jackson lying?

PH or you or me were not playing he was giving an opinion on Jackson and other 10 and he was one of the players who could only actually know this to be true or not, not PH. he stated it didnt affect the players so therefore AJ must have spoken to them, so I think your point is ridiculous.

Paul heckingbottom wasnt playing was he? It transferred to the "players" is his opinion, Jackson says different with what can only be facts as he was a "player". Of course I will dismiss his claim he was not playing and Jackson was.

So can you please clarify how its ridiculous I am going with the thoughts of one of the "players" who states it didnt affect them as a pose to the thoughts of the manager who was not playing?

I'm not hanging my hat on Heckingbottom's comments, and I'm not saying that Jackson is lying either.

There's most likely to be an element of truth in both statements, in that not all players were affected, but at the same time it's not true to say that none of the players were affected.

If people think that booing, anxiety etc doesn't transmit onto the pitch to some degree, they're living in cloud cuckoo land.

[WhileTheChief..]

Nah, its being used with a negative connotation as if we all have a sinister plan to bring down the club or something.

Basically its another dig at supporters. Place is full of it these days just for having a different outlook.

[Smartie]

Nah, its being used with a negative connotation as if we all have a sinister plan to bring down the club or something.

Basically its another dig at supporters. Place is full of it these days just for having a different outlook.

Yes, we all want Hibs to win but it is naive to think there aren't agendas other than this one out there.

There is a modern social media based one which seems to be a strange desire amongst folk to see who can be the first person to be able to go "look back at my posts, I told you all along, I was the first to want him gone". If we're not going to win, we can fall over each other to point out the faults of everyone from PH to LD to the pie stalls to the folk who do the twitter account.

It's peculiar narcissistic nonsense and it harms our club. I've not always been exactly impressed by our manager's every decision but we surely owe the man who is currently in position a bit of loyalty, support and patience?

This is different to people who may simply have a different outlook, which is always interesting and welcome.

[#2 Double Tap]

Nah, its being used with a negative connotation as if we all have a sinister plan to bring down the club or something.

Basically its another dig at supporters. Place is full of it these days just for having a different outlook.

One thing which comes across a bit strange, is that when heckingbottom was lying about no more transfers, his supporters spoke about "playing a poker game" and how that was a very good tactic. Yet doing so brought instant panic and anxiety to the other fans who took it at face value.

Then instead of spinning a yarn and bluffing to calm everyone down after a disappointing performance, he shows his hand face up and is now only telling the truth, which has coincidentally caused anger and an increased level of animosity towards him.

[bigwheel]

Feels like people are seeking any reason to be annoyed with our manager at the moment...I’d like to hope get behind him and the team over the coming weeks - let’s see where we are at Christmas ...there have been very few league games - let’s give him a real chance to get it right ..judge him when he has had the chance to get the squad performing ..

[Rumble de Thump]

One thing which comes across a bit strange, is that when heckingbottom was lying about no more transfers, his supporters spoke about "playing a poker game" and how that was a very good tactic. Yet doing so brought instant panic and anxiety to the other fans who took it at face value.

Then instead of spinning a yarn and bluffing to calm everyone down after a disappointing performance, he shows his hand face up and is now only telling the truth, which has coincidentally caused anger and an increased level of animosity towards him.

The strangest thing is probably that he didn't simply say there would be no more transfers but some people are adamant that's what he said.

[B.H.F.C]

Feels like people are seeking any reason to be annoyed with our manager at the moment...I’d like to hope get behind him and the team over the coming weeks - let’s see where we are at Christmas ...there have been very few league games - let’s give him a real chance to get it right ..judge him when he has had the chance to get the squad performing ..

As it stands, I think it’s more a case of let’s see where we stand at the end of September. Massive month for him, and the club. It will either buy him time or be the end of him IMO.

[#2 Double Tap]

The strangest thing is probably that he didn't simply say there would be no more transfers but some people are adamant that's what he said.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/hibs-transfer-business-done-summer-16615955

[loanheadhibby]

Ironically, playing away from home tomorrow may help Hibs/Hecky in the curret plight. Slightly less pressure and an away support that will get right behind the team? Hopefully we get a good result otherwise it just heaps more pressure on.

[superfurryhibby]

Having read the whole thread, I realise that the interview does add context to the article I posted. However, he still needs to take some responsibility for what’s happening. It may not be possible to acknowledge that your signings have largely been unimpressive, but the stuff about Allan and the impact of booing...nah. Players aren’t daft and they know what the booing was for.

Up until very recently I supported Heckingbottom, I try and support all Hibs managers and players. Sad to say that I think he is done, he did well enough to start, but it’s been pretty gash since the Hearts game. If he can’t get results in the next couple of games he’s done.

[Captain Trips]

I'm not hanging my hat on Heckingbottom's comments, and I'm not saying that Jackson is lying either.

There's most likely to be an element of truth in both statements, in that not all players were affected, but at the same time it's not true to say that none of the players were affected.

If people think that booing, anxiety etc doesn't transmit onto the pitch to some degree, they're living in cloud cuckoo land.

Im not saying it doesnt ever happen ever but I am saying on Saturday it didnt as I have seen quoted from one of the only people who can know this to be true or not. There is no element of truth in both its simply not true as quoted by one of the players.

If you are saying their is an elemt of truth in both then AJ must be taking pish? Well I will say it PH was talking pish the crowd had FA to do with the result it was his setup and the players nobody else. If you think that PH is right in anyway you must be saying AJ is talking pish. Cant be both as they are actually saying quite opposite things.

I think we might be in agreement:

1: His setup and tactics were not the best?
2. Some players did not play well?
3. The crowd didnt help?

1 and 2 we agree maybe? 3 we disagree. It just feels like you want to try and just not lay blame at door of the team and manager and are looking for other reasons. Jst IMO.

[Barman Stanton]

One thing which comes across a bit strange, is that when heckingbottom was lying about no more transfers, his supporters spoke about "playing a poker game" and how that was a very good tactic. Yet doing so brought instant panic and anxiety to the other fans who took it at face value.

Then instead of spinning a yarn and bluffing to calm everyone down after a disappointing performance, he shows his hand face up and is now only telling the truth, which has coincidentally caused anger and an increased level of animosity towards him.

'His Supporters'? He doesnt have supporters. What they are are Hibs fans who are trying to support the manager and team. Bonkers that anyone would think thats wrong.

[#2 Double Tap]

'His Supporters'? He doesnt have supporters. What they are are Hibs fans who are trying to support the manager and team. Bonkers that anyone would think thats wrong.

talk about twisting words.......the guys who defend him as opposed to people like me who want rid of him.

[hibeerealist]

Shan patter if fellow hibbies are tweeting the man direct to his personal twitter account and telling him to get the” f*#k out of our club”

No respect!

What are we coming to?

Dearie me!

Agreed, certainly no need for that!

[Unseen work]

Social media is making it border line impossible for players/fans to succeed.

One bad game and fans are all over it absolutley slating them.

Its happening at all clubs now.

[hibsbollah]

Yes, we all want Hibs to win but it is naive to think there aren't agendas other than this one out there.

There is a modern social media based one which seems to be a strange desire amongst folk to see who can be the first person to be able to go "look back at my posts, I told you all along, I was the first to want him gone". If we're not going to win, we can fall over each other to point out the faults of everyone from PH to LD to the pie stalls to the folk who do the twitter account.

It's peculiar narcissistic nonsense and it harms our club. I've not always been exactly impressed by our manager's every decision but we surely owe the man who is currently in position a bit of loyalty, support and patience?

This is different to people who may simply have a different outlook, which is always interesting and welcome.

:agree: Its very much Poster Ego at work. Once you form a view and express it on an online forum, its hard to retract it, even if you were just making a prediction that didnt come 100% true. Its great being right all along, and if you publicly decide its 'Heckxit time' after losing 6-1 to Rangers its hard to back down. Or in my case, when you announce that Pa Kujabi is going to be a superstar after a 45 minute cameo...

I was much happier on here when I started owning up when I was talking pish and got things wrong:greengrin. Welcome to the human race, nobody knows it all, especially when it comes to intangibles like sport.

[matty_f]

Im not saying it doesnt ever happen ever but I am saying on Saturday it didnt as I have seen quoted from one of the only people who can know this to be true or not. There is no element of truth in both its simply not true as quoted by one of the players.

If you are saying their is an elemt of truth in both then AJ must be taking pish? Well I will say it PH was talking pish the crowd had FA to do with the result it was his setup and the players nobody else. If you think that PH is right in anyway you must be saying AJ is talking pish. Cant be both as they are actually saying quite opposite things.

I think we might be in agreement:

1: His setup and tactics were not the best?
2. Some players did not play well?
3. The crowd didnt help?

1 and 2 we agree maybe? 3 we disagree. It just feels like you want to try and just not lay blame at door of the team and manager and are looking for other reasons. Jst IMO.

That post only makes sense if you can only handle black and white ideas. There's no 'true' point in it, both Jackson and Heckingbottom can be right from their perspectives, and I'm not saying either is lying.

I do think it's likely that one's mistaken, and I don't think it's Heckingbottom, but that's just my opinion.

I'm not trying to deflect blame either.

There seems to be a nonsense theory that by saying something had an affect then it becomes the sole reason for the performance.

That's clearly nonsense.

There are loads of things that contributed to the low level of our performance, not least the set up of the team and the way the players played.

That's not to say that other factors didn't play a part.

The idea that one thing is to 'blame' is ridiculous, as ridiculous as this argument, really.

[Onion]

Ironically, playing away from home tomorrow may help Hibs/Hecky in the curret plight. Slightly less pressure and an away support that will get right behind the team? Hopefully we get a good result otherwise it just heaps more pressure on.

:agree:Hecky badly needs a win, ideally with a good performance. Hibs fans need to start to see the team moving in the right direction, and quickly. His stupid comments this week have done him no favours, especially if he cannot turn this around.

[Captain Trips]

That post only makes sense if you can only handle black and white ideas. There's no 'true' point in it, both Jackson and Heckingbottom can be right from their perspectives, and I'm not saying either is lying.

I do think it's likely that one's mistaken, and I don't think it's Heckingbottom, but that's just my opinion.

The only ridiculous stance on this is yours, why are you not accepting the word of somebody directly involved and just deciding to add well its a bit of both or whatever. I find that ridiculous tbh.

I'm not trying to deflect blame either.

There seems to be a nonsense theory that by saying something had an affect then it becomes the sole reason for the performance.

That's clearly nonsense.

There are loads of things that contributed to the low level of our performance, not least the set up of the team and the way the players played.

That's not to say that other factors didn't play a part.

The idea that one thing is to 'blame' is ridiculous, as ridiculous as this argument, really.

I never said it was one factor the point is the crowd had no effect on team or result fact according to only person who can know it. So on this particular occasion the crowd factor is black and white and you therefore are saying AJ is lying or mistaken?

[SMAXXA]

I never said it was one factor the point is the crowd had no effect on team or result fact according to only person who can know it. So on this particular occasion the crowd factor is black and white and you therefore are saying AJ is lying or mistaken?

He doesn’t speak for the 11 on the park though he’s giving his opinion so I don’t think you can say that’s a fact whatsoever

[007]

talk about twisting words.......the guys who defend him as opposed to people like me who want rid of him.

Would defeats in the next couple of games be worth it to get rid of him quicker?

[Captain Trips]

He doesn’t speak for the 11 on the park though he’s giving his opinion so I don’t think you can say that’s a fact whatsoever

He said players. Is it not more coming from a player so yeah it's likely a fact and not an opinion.

[Peevemor]

I never said it was one factor the point is the crowd had no effect on team or result fact according to only person who can know it. So on this particular occasion the crowd factor is black and white and you therefore are saying AJ is lying or mistaken?How was he meant to answer? If he'd said that the players were affected then he'd have been accused of, at best being a flowery blouse or, at worst, blaming the fans. He answered "no, I don't think so" and was immediately accused on here of contradicting his manager, a sure sign that the latter has lost the dressing room.

People should know better than to hang on to every answer given in interviews.

[Sioux]

Yeah as much as I want him to be given a chance, I think its probably better he goes sooner rather than later. Many have never and just wont take to him. I just hope the next manager gets a bit more support.

The same was said of Lennon, and undoubtedly any manager of the recent past. But here we go again.

The shelf life of a Hibs manager is cut short because Hibs fans don't accept anything other than instant 'success', whatever that means. Someone said earlier in the thread that it wasn't acceptable for Hibs to be in transition. That is mind blowing when based on the reality of our situation, where managers last less than two years.

Manager after manager, no matter where, tell us that you need a couple of years to make noticeable and effective change. Too many are forced to change their plans too early to satisfy fans, journalists, social media terrorists et al. What's that phrase about doing the same thing time and time again but expecting a different outcome?

[Captain Trips]

How was he meant to answer? If he'd said that the players were affected then he'd have been accused of, at best being a flowery blouse or, at worst, blaming the fans. He answered "no, I don't think so" and was immediately accused on here of contradicting his manager, a sure sign that the latter has lost the dressing room.

People should know better than to hang on to every answer given in interviews.

So not hanging onto what, certain things that suit a certain scanario? If not to hang onto AJ you equally not hang onto PH initial comments then?

[Weegreenman]

Heckingbottom is no different to any other manager, he will be judged on results. As it stands, W1 D1 L1

He’ll get my 100% backing but we need to see an improvement regards performance from our players. Some of them need to take a right long hard look at themselves after being totally out passed/played by St.Johnston. Unacceptable in my book and cannot continue without consequences.

[Jim44]

Would defeats in the next couple of games be worth it to get rid of him quicker?

I am scunnered that any Hibs supporter thinks this way. Careful what you wish for. A few defeats on the trot and sacking PH could throw us into free fall. Surely we want to see us winning every game and, if that means an upturn in PH’s standing with the fans and a disappointment for the ones who have him out the door already, tough.

[Peevemor]

So not hanging onto what, certain things that suit a certain scanario? If not to hang onto AJ you equally not hang onto PH initial comments then?I took PH's initial comments for what they were - his impression and feelings in the immediate aftermath of the match. I certainly didn't hear anything which merited the reaction of some on here.

[Since452]

Im genuinely staggered some people want a manager out after 3 league games. Crazy.

[B.H.F.C]

Im genuinely staggered some people want a manager out after 3 league games. Crazy.

That argument again. I think a lot of doubts are based on a bit more than that.

[SMAXXA]

He said players. Is it not more coming from a player so yeah it's likely a fact and not an opinion.

No he never he was referring to 1 player Jackson

[Hibs4185]

I don’t think we were booing the substitution as such, I think we were booing the dire football we had watched for the previous 65 minutes and the only glimpse of anything creative had came from Scott Allan the twice he drifted centrally, and he was the one guy who in all probability would’ve been the player to provide a split second of magic to win the game.

If we had been drawing and playing decent football, no one would’ve booed the substitution and trusted in the managers decision.

[malcolm]

He said players. Is it not more coming from a player so yeah it's likely a fact and not an opinion.

It appears that on here many have a great difficulty in perceiving that their own opinion actually isn’t a fact. So having an argument about the potential fact or opinion of someone else is probably a no hoper in terms of agreement. :faf: All of course in my own opinion which I don’t hold to be factual at all.:wink:

[Captain Trips]

No he never he was referring to 1 player Jackson

?

Jackson said the players were not affected.

[JohnMcM]

Im genuinely staggered some people want a manager out after 3 league games. Crazy.

To be fair to everyone on here and their views and comments, we might do well to remember it's not just 3 league games.

It seems to me many people who are criticising PH are taking into account the performances and tactics of the final top six 5-6 games last season.

Couple that with the arguably poor performances so far this season, including the LC matches. Yes we got through in the LC,,,,,, but man, the on field performances were far from stimulating.

Now take in that thrashing at Ibrox, the general disgruntlement about our recent recruitment and what's been delivered on the pitch by some of those players, I can understand the negativity.

What I find hard to agree with is the disdain shown by our support "during" matches. Keep your boos until the final whistle and make it clear later what your "beef" is.

We are Hibs. Please, if you come to a match, support our team whilst the ball is being kicked.

:flag:

[007]

I am scunnered that any Hibs supporter thinks this way. Careful what you wish for. A few defeats on the trot and sacking PH could throw us into free fall. Surely we want to see us winning every game and, if that means an upturn in PH’s standing with the fans and a disappointment for the ones who have him out the door already, tough.

It's not what I'm wanting, I agree with what you say. I was just wondering if things had gotten that bad were others wanting it. I accept its a poor question to ask so I'll retract it with my apologies.

[#2 Double Tap]

Would defeats in the next couple of games be worth it to get rid of him quicker?

Not at all, defeat in the next two puts us in such a bad situation, we could really start to struggle if that happens.

When the players confidence levels start to drop off drastically the unthinkable can often happen, as we have seen previously. Sticking with a coaching team who are producing football that does not generate a feel good factor or any excitement for the fans, while at the same time produces negativity that starts to breed anxiety in the stadium seems utterly pointless because it will likely only end one way anyhow.

It is all down to the general playing style, we could win the next 5 but do so playing mind numbing hoof ball and I would still hold the view the manager should be replaced. If there was a big improvement in playing style though, my views and beliefs about the current regime could change, but up until now there has been no evidence of improvement or signs of progression and after last week it kinda looks like that is going to continue.

[Cataplana]

If he goes on the back of a mob whipping up hysteria, I won't be back. A small number of fans are having a disproportionate effect on stability at the club.

[brianmc]

Heckingbottom is no different to any other manager, he will be judged on results. As it stands, W1 D1 L1

He’ll get my 100% backing but we need to see an improvement regards performance from our players. Some of them need to take a right long hard look at themselves after being totally out passed/played by St.Johnston. Unacceptable in my book and cannot continue without consequences.

^^This is exactly how I see things too. Results AND performance need to improve.

[Borderhibbie76]

Shan patter if fellow hibbies are tweeting the man direct to his personal twitter account and telling him to get the” f*#k out of our club”

No respect!

What are we coming to?

Dearie me!They are indeed.. I've seen it several times this week on twitter and its Hibs fans if their profile pics are anything to go by. Poor behaviour from certain Hibs fans it really is

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Shrekko]

To be fair to everyone on here and their views and comments, we might do well to remember it's not just 3 league games.

It seems to me many people who are criticising PH are taking into account the performances and tactics of the final top six 5-6 games last season.

Couple that with the arguably poor performances so far this season, including the LC matches. Yes we got through in the LC,,,,,, but man, the on field performances were far from stimulating.

Now take in that thrashing at Ibrox, the general disgruntlement about our recent recruitment and what's been delivered on the pitch by some of those players, I can understand the negativity.

What I find hard to agree with is the disdain shown by our support "during" matches. Keep your boos until the final whistle and make it clear later what your "beef" is.

We are Hibs. Please, if you come to a match, support our team whilst the ball is being kicked.

:flag:

This is where I am.

I fully understand the negativity, it’s the way people are choosing to display their feelings. There’s a balance and a way of not hurting the club too much.

The way some folk have been abused for simply asking for a bit of calm and support for the players is really poor too.

[JohnMcM]

They are indeed.. I've seen it several times this week on twitter and its Hibs fans if their profile pics are anything to go by. Poor behaviour from certain Hibs fans it really is

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

100% agreed.

[erin go bragh]

I am scunnered that any Hibs supporter thinks this way. Careful what you wish for. A few defeats on the trot and sacking PH could throw us into free fall. Surely we want to see us winning every game and, if that means an upturn in PH’s standing with the fans and a disappointment for the ones who have him out the door already, tough.

Defo Jim . I never ever want Hibs to lose . Winning is the way for PH to turn this around.

[hibsbollah]

To be fair to everyone on here and their views and comments, we might do well to remember it's not just 3 league games.

It seems to me many people who are criticising PH are taking into account the performances and tactics of the final top six 5-6 games last season.

Couple that with the arguably poor performances so far this season, including the LC matches. Yes we got through in the LC,,,,,, but man, the on field performances were far from stimulating.

Now take in that thrashing at Ibrox, the general disgruntlement about our recent recruitment and what's been delivered on the pitch by some of those players, I can understand the negativity.

What I find hard to agree with is the disdain shown by our support "during" matches. Keep your boos until the final whistle and make it clear later what your "beef" is.

We are Hibs. Please, if you come to a match, support our team whilst the ball is being kicked.

:flag:



:agree:Good post.

[matty_f]

I never said it was one factor the point is the crowd had no effect on team or result fact according to only person who can know it. So on this particular occasion the crowd factor is black and white and you therefore are saying AJ is lying or mistaken?

Go on YouTube and search for “spinning woman optical illusion” the video you get is of a ballerina spinning on her toes. When you watch it sometimes she’s rotating anti-clockwise, sometimes clockwise.

You can see her spinning clockwise at the exact same time as someone else is watching the same image is seeing her spin anti-clockwise.

It’s all about perspective. AJ and Hecky can both be right, from their perspective. Perhaps AJ doesn’t think any of the players were affected, he probably considers himself right in that regard. If Vela had been asked maybe he’d have said that it did have an impact, and he’d consider himself right.

Perspective is the key. It’s not possibly to say that it impacted noone or that it impacted everyone, but the most likely scenario is that it affected some of them.

Quoting Jackson and using that as a fact is wrong.

[JohnMcM]

They are indeed.. I've seen it several times this week on twitter and its Hibs fans if their profile pics are anything to go by. Poor behaviour from certain Hibs fans it really is

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


This is where I am.

I fully understand the negativity, it’s the way people are choosing to display their feelings. There’s a balance and a way of not hurting the club too much.

The way some folk have been abused for simply asking for a bit of calm and support for the players is really poor too.

:thumbsup:

[hibsbollah]

It appears that on here many have a great difficulty in perceiving that their own opinion actually isn’t a fact. So having an argument about the potential fact or opinion of someone else is probably a no hoper in terms of agreement. :faf: All of course in my own opinion which I don’t hold to be factual at all.:wink:

I like the quadruple contradiction:greengrin

You've summed up nicely something the modern world seems to have forgotten; that facts and opinions ARE different. Opinions are like ********s, everyone has one. Facts are a bit more precious. (Although im not doubting the importance of a well rounded ******** too). But when you start disbelieving science, youre on very shaky ground. You may as well go around shouting Fake News! at the moon wearing a tinfoil hat. But thats a wee bit off topic.

[Captain Trips]

Go on YouTube and search for “spinning woman optical illusion” the video you get is of a ballerina spinning on her toes. When you watch it sometimes she’s rotating anti-clockwise, sometimes clockwise.

You can see her spinning clockwise at the exact same time as someone else is watching the same image is seeing her spin anti-clockwise.

It’s all about perspective. AJ and Hecky can both be right, from their perspective. Perhaps AJ doesn’t think any of the players were affected, he probably considers himself right in that regard. If Vela had been asked maybe he’d have said that it did have an impact, and he’d consider himself right.

Perspective is the key. It’s not possibly to say that it impacted noone or that it impacted everyone, but the most likely scenario is that it affected some of them.

Quoting Jackson and using that as a fact is wrong.

Sorry but thats rubbish Matty, PH is talking about what he thinks, AJ is talking about what he knows so there is no perspective. If I have an opinion on how a person feels and they tell me that is not how they feel then who is correct? Me who is observing or the actual person? I would suggest the actual person unless they are lying. Vela wasn't asked so you either accept AJ or not and I accept his views on how players like himself felt above PH who manager or not was an observer and not in their minds.

So quoting Jackson and using it as a fact is completely right.

But if others on here can decide that they actually know better than AJ then well done or change what he is meaning then ok.

[Captain Trips]

I like the quadruple contradiction:greengrin

You've summed up nicely something the modern world seems to have forgotten; that facts and opinions ARE different. Opinions are like ********s, everyone has one. Facts are a bit more precious. (Although im not doubting the importance of a well rounded ******** too). But when you start disbelieving science, youre on very shaky ground. You may as well go around shouting Fake News! at the moon wearing a tinfoil hat. But thats a wee bit off topic.

If somebody tells me how they feel I can only think its a fact. If somebody tells me how they think somebody else feels then I cant. Simple?

[ancient hibee]

Is the real elephant in the room that most were looking forward to Heck bringing in his own players with the club being at a probably all time financial high.Most of us are pretty underwhelmed and coupled with the difficulty in getting into a game a lot of us think that everything has gone a bit pear shaped.Throw in so-so performances and last minute goals against it's hardly surprising that initial rumbles are are turning thunderous.

[Captain Trips]

Is the real elephant in the room that most were looking forward to Heck bringing in his own players with the club being at a probably all time financial high.Most of us are pretty underwhelmed and coupled with the difficulty in getting into a game a lot of us think that everything has gone a bit pear shaped.Throw in so-so performances and last minute goals against it's hardly surprising that initial rumbles are are turning thunderous.

I understand what you are saying AH I think the time to look at everything is after first round of games when the new players have a good few matches under belt. I have no issue with his signings as hardly played so they need time my only issues are his deflecting his IMO poor set up on Saturday by looking at outside forces and his set up that I have seen versus the Celtic and Sevco. So im hoping for a few changes in that area. I think very harsh to want him out now that some are wanting coupled with personal stuff on twitter.

[matty_f]

Sorry but thats rubbish Matty, PH is talking about what he thinks, AJ is talking about what he knows so there is no perspective. If I have an opinion on how a person feels and they tell me that is not how they feel then who is correct? Me who is observing or the actual person? I would suggest the actual person unless they are lying. Vela wasn't asked so you either accept AJ or not and I accept his views on how players like himself felt above PH who manager or not was an observer and not in their minds.

So quoting Jackson and using it as a fact is completely right.

But if others on here can decide that they actually know better than AJ then well done or change what he is meaning then ok.

You’ve obviously never asked your Mrs what’s wrong and she’s said “nothing, I’m fine” :faf:

I don’t think you understand what a fact is.

What if Heckingbottom asked the players before he gave his interview?

Jackson gave his opinion, that’s not fact.

Your post is almost completely nonsense.

Here’s what Jackson said:
“I don’t think the supporters’ anxiety seeped through to the players.”

So he’s giving his opinion. That is not fact. Not in any way, shape or form, can that be described as fact.

[Captain Trips]

You’ve obviously never asked your Mrs what’s wrong and she’s said “nothing, I’m fine” :faf:

I don’t think you understand what a fact is.

What if Heckingbottom asked the players before he gave his interview?

Jackson gave his opinion, that’s not fact.

Your post is almost completely nonsense.

I do know what a fact is it appears so AJ is lying then, ok just like the wife is. Jackson gave his mindset that is a fact PH cant as he is not a mind reader, you are now just making up scenarios that "might" have happened. AJ told you and me what he actually thought so what else can it be other than fact or a lie so what is it?

You are told how somebody feels by the person its either true or not pure and simple. I believe him you dont. He is lying to you and telling truth to me so that's your ballerina analogy there.

[matty_f]

I do know what a fact is it appears so AJ is lying then, ok just like the wife is. Jackson gave his mindset that is a fact PH cant as he is not a mind reader, you are now just making up scenarios that "might" have happened. AJ told you and me what he actually thought so what else can it be other than fact or a lie so what is it?

It’s his opinion. I’ve edited my last post with his wording, which was:

“I don’t think the supporters’ anxiety seeped through to the players.”

When you say “I don’t think” or “I think” then what you’re presenting next is your opinion or perspective. It’s not a fact.

He’s not lying but it doesn’t make it fact.

[hibsbollah]

If somebody tells me how they feel I can only think its a fact. If somebody tells me how they think somebody else feels then I cant. Simple?

You are spectacularly wrong. A feeling is not a fact. And like I said previously, the fact that you don't know that you are wrong about this, doesn't make it any less of a fact.

Although the fact that I am wasting my Friday evening debating this point instead of watching a very exciting looking Dundee derby is evidence that I'm a bit of a fanny.

[Captain Trips]

It’s his opinion. I’ve edited my last post with his wording, which was:

“I don’t think the supporters’ anxiety seeped through to the players.”

When you say “I don’t think” or “I think” then what you’re presenting next is your opinion or perspective. It’s not a fact.

He’s not lying but it doesn’t make it fact.

Well if PH "asked" the players in one of your scenarios then AJ must have. He is telling you how it is you can accept it or not but that result had FA to do with anyone in that crowd this is bottom line and if a player thinks it then that trumps everyone else involved. So for me its a fact.

[Captain Trips]

You are spectacularly wrong. A feeling is not a fact. And like I said previously, the fact that you don't know that you are wrong about this, doesn't make it any less of a fact.

Although the fact that I am wasting my Friday evening debating this point instead of watching a very exciting looking Dundee derby is evidence that I'm a bit of a fanny.

Are you serious? I think you had better watch the Derby to actually tell me that somebody telling me how they feel is not a fact is frankly quite ridiculous and I am wondering now if you are on windup? A feeling is not a fact????

I am unhappy that Sevco got through last night. That is how I feel and its a fact. Enjoy the Derby.

[hibsbollah]

Are you serious? I think you had better watch the Derby to actually tell me that somebody telling me how they feel is not a fact is frankly quite ridiculous and I am wondering now if you are on windup? A feeling is not a fact????

I am unhappy that Sevco got through last night. That is how I feel and its a fact. Enjoy the Derby.

Have you ever noticed that you can't get normal pork anymore? Every ****ing thing is 'pulled pork'. Pulled pork sandwiches from scotmid.its more common than cheese ffs. Can you explain what 'pulled pork' actually is?

[malcolm]

If somebody tells me how they feel I can only think its a fact. If somebody tells me how they think somebody else feels then I cant. Simple?

The only fact here is that they have told you something.. but you don’t know if what they have told you is true and in this case is it what they really feel or if they are being economical with the truth.:greengrin.

Tbh I’m not sure a player interview is that reliable a medium for a player to give an honest appraisal of their own feelings. There’s a whole counselling industry into helping folk get a handle on their feelings or we might call it reappraising their opinion of them :greengrin

Anyway I’ve forgot what you were both opining on and I’m not taking sides!

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Have you ever noticed that you can't get normal pork anymore? Every ****ing thing is 'pulled pork'. Pulled pork sandwiches from scotmid.its more common than cheese ffs. Can you explain what 'pulled pork' actually is?
(Mechanically?) stripped after into ribbons after cooking no?

[Captain Trips]

Have you ever noticed that you can't get normal pork anymore? Every ****ing thing is 'pulled pork'. Pulled pork sandwiches from scotmid.its more common than cheese ffs. Can you explain what 'pulled pork' actually is?

https://saundersonsecurity.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/4/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/w/h/wheel-clamp_1.jpg

[matty_f]

Well if PH "asked" the players in one of your scenarios then AJ must have. He is telling you how it is you can accept it or not but that result had FA to do with anyone in that crowd this is bottom line and if a player thinks it then that trumps everyone else involved. So for me its a fact.

You are not making any sense.

The player said he didn’t think the anxiety seeped from the crowd. He’s not saying it definitely didn’t or definitely did.

He’s giving his opinion. That is categorically not a fact.

[Captain Trips]

You are not making any sense.

The player said he didn’t think the anxiety seeped from the crowd. He’s not saying it definitely didn’t or definitely did.

He’s giving his opinion. That is categorically not a fact.

Of which he will include himself so fact.

[matty_f]

Of which he will include himself so fact.

:faf: you’re at it!!

[hibsbollah]

Of which he will include himself so fact.

When applying mustard or ketchup to a hotdog, apply it between the dog and the bread, not on top of the dog. This will avoid any embarrassing smears. Particularly if you have a beard or moustache.

[hibsbollah]

(Mechanically?) stripped after into ribbons after cooking no?

So why is that a good thing? I'm genuinely baffled.

[Captain Trips]

:faf: you’re at it!!

This is for you as well 😂

https://saundersonsecurity.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/4/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/w/h/wheel-clamp_1.jpg

[hibsbollah]

Of which he will include himself so fact.

:top marks

[matty_f]

This is for you as well 😂

https://saundersonsecurity.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/4/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/w/h/wheel-clamp_1.jpg

I think all the posters on here think you’re talking pish.

By your logic, because I am one of the posters so include myself, it’s a fact that you’re talking pish.

[bingo70]

I think all the posters on here think you’re talking pish.

By your logic, because I am one of the posters so include myself, it’s a fact that you’re talking pish.

Just want to point out that as one of the posters being included in ‘all the posters’, I’ve no idea what either of you are on about and who's been clamped?

Hopefully Hibs win tomorrow though, that’s my contribution to the debate.

[matty_f]

Just want to point out that as one of the posters being included in ‘all the posters’, I’ve no idea what either of you are on about and who's been clamped?

Hopefully Hibs win tomorrow though, that’s my contribution to the debate.

Me too.

And thank you for helping make the point, even if it was inadvertently.

[Captain Trips]

I think all the posters on here think you’re talking pish.

By your logic, because I am one of the posters so include myself, it’s a fact that you’re talking pish.

No my logic is based on AJ being in same room as those involved of which there were 13 or 14 people. So what you suggest is your logic not mine. Mine is based on a few people together your analagy is like your thoughts on it ridiculous.

Matty now appearing in Captains back pocket.

[matty_f]

No my logic is based on AJ being in same room as those involved of which there were 13 or 14 people. So what you suggest is your logic not mine so therefore I think your talking pish and by the very logic you believe it actually you who is talking pish by all posters as I think you are.

Matty now appearing in Captains back pocket.

Wow.

I’ve read and re-read that and I think I can just about work or what you’re trying to say. You’re still wrong, by the way.

AJ would have been in the same room as PH, so that’s made matters more confusing hasn’t it?

Saying you’ve got someone in your back pocket doesn’t make it so, by the way.

I’m hoping you’re just taking this stance for some banter or out of boredom.

[Captain Trips]

Wow.

I’ve read and re-read that and I think I can just about work or what you’re trying to say. You’re still wrong, by the way.

AJ would have been in the same room as PH, so that’s made matters more confusing hasn’t it?

Saying you’ve got someone in your back pocket doesn’t make it so, by the way.

I’m hoping you’re just taking this stance for some banter or out of boredom.

Funny I was thinking same awaiting the banter though. Although your thoughts on the subject could be deemed banter. Adam "the truth" Jackson vs Matty "guessing and conjecture" F.

[matty_f]

Funny I was thinking same awaiting the banter though. Although your thoughts on the subject could be deemed banter. Adam "the truth" Jackson vs Matty "guessing and conjecture" F.

I have no words. I'm out. You can claim that as clamping if it makes you feel better.

[hibsbollah]

Funny I was thinking same awaiting the banter though. Although your thoughts on the subject could be deemed banter. Adam "the truth" Jackson vs Matty "guessing and conjecture" F.

You know that 'Derry Girls' show? It's much funnier than you would expect.

[Captain Trips]

I have no words. I'm out. You can claim that as clamping if it makes you feel better.

It doesnt make me feel better no.

[Captain Trips]

You know that 'Derry Girls' show? It's much funnier than you would expect.

https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_crop,h_1690,w_3008,x_0,y_310/f_auto,q_auto,w_1100/v1554926226/shape/mentalfloss/istock-145839390.jpg

[Mon Dieu4]

When applying mustard or ketchup to a hotdog, apply it between the dog and the bread, not on top of the dog. This will avoid any embarrassing smears. Particularly if you have a beard or moustache.

Wish I'd known that tip years ago, once took a date to the cinema, I'd not eaten all day so got a hot dog, put mustard and tomato sauce over the top of it, needed to take my coat off so balanced said hotdog on my knees, as I took my coat off the hotdog rolled down my legs leaving mustard and sauce stains at two inch intervals all the way down my legs :faf:

[hibsbollah]

Wish I'd known that tip years ago, once took a date to the cinema, I'd not eaten all day so got a hot dog, put mustard and tomato sauce over the top of it, needed to take my coat off so balanced said hotdog on my knees, as I took my coat off the hotdog rolled down my legs leaving mustard and sauce stains at two inch intervals all the way down my legs :faf:

Some ****ing sense at last, good to see you:greengrin

Have you had the 'posh dogs' from M&S? It takes the hot dog to another level.

[Mon Dieu4]

Some ****ing sense at last, good to see you:greengrin

Have you had the 'posh dogs' from M&S? It takes the hot dog to another level.

I have indeed, they are a game changer, just like Scott Allan if played in the right position

[hibsbollah]

I have indeed, they are a game changer, just like Scott Allan if played in the right position

Scott Allan, the Dog.
Horgan, the Mustard.
Newell, the bread.
Mallan....

Nah this doesn't really work :party:

[One Day Soon]

This thread is an almost perfect vignette of social media and its completely polarising nature.

There's a perfectly respectable argument to be put that PH is so far struggling in terms of performances, playing style and the tempo at which we play. His signings look nothing special so far. We aren't delivering the high press he suggested and nor do we look more fit than ever before. These factors more than any others are his biggest weakness at the moment. We desperately need to see some signs on the park that we are beginning to gel, regardless of results.

It ought to be possible to make those points without some of his defenders exhibiting the football equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome or his detractors ludicrously dismissing him completely at this stage. Its equally reasonable to make those criticisms on .net and to support the team at games regardless. However he isn't helping himself by getting into any kind of discussion about the fans, whether instigated by reporters or not. It's just not a good subject for him while we are playing as we are.

I remain a cautiously pessimistic Bed Clapper until we start to play much better football. I hope we will and that PH can sort it out, but the next five or six games on the fixture list look like they may leave him little room to prove it.

[One Day Soon]

Is the real elephant in the room that most were looking forward to Heck bringing in his own players with the club being at a probably all time financial high.Most of us are pretty underwhelmed and coupled with the difficulty in getting into a game a lot of us think that everything has gone a bit pear shaped.Throw in so-so performances and last minute goals against it's hardly surprising that initial rumbles are are turning thunderous.

Pretty good summary. The supporters booing debate is a red herring really.

[hibsbollah]

This thread is an almost perfect vignette of social media and its completely polarising nature.

There's a perfectly respectable argument to be put that PH is so far struggling in terms of performances, playing style and the tempo at which we play. His signings look nothing special so far. We aren't delivering the high press he suggested and nor do we look more fit than ever before. These factors more than any others are his biggest weakness at the moment. We desperately need to see some signs on the park that we are beginning to gel, regardless of results.

It ought to be possible to make those points without some of his defenders exhibiting the football equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome or his detractors ludicrously dismissing him completely at this stage. Its equally reasonable to make those criticisms on .net and to support the team at games regardless. However he isn't helping himself by getting into any kind of discussion about the fans, whether instigated by reporters or not. It's just not a good subject for him while we are playing as we are.

I remain a cautiously pessimistic Bed Clapper until we start to play much better football. I hope we will and that PH can sort it out, but the next five or six games on the fixture list look like they may leave him little room to prove it.

GTF and stay on topic:rolleyes:
Any hot dog wisdom?

[Hiber-nation]

This thread is an almost perfect vignette of social media and its completely polarising nature.

There's a perfectly respectable argument to be put that PH is so far struggling in terms of performances, playing style and the tempo at which we play. His signings look nothing special so far. We aren't delivering the high press he suggested and nor do we look more fit than ever before. These factors more than any others are his biggest weakness at the moment. We desperately need to see some signs on the park that we are beginning to gel, regardless of results.

It ought to be possible to make those points without some of his defenders exhibiting the football equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome or his detractors ludicrously dismissing him completely at this stage. Its equally reasonable to make those criticisms on .net and to support the team at games regardless. However he isn't helping himself by getting into any kind of discussion about the fans, whether instigated by reporters or not. It's just not a good subject for him while we are playing as we are.

I remain a cautiously pessimistic Bed Clapper until we start to play much better football. I hope we will and that PH can sort it out, but the next five or six games on the fixture list look like they may leave him little room to prove it.

Excellent post in what was turning into a car crash of a thread.

[jacomo]

This is where I am.

I fully understand the negativity, it’s the way people are choosing to display their feelings. There’s a balance and a way of not hurting the club too much.

The way some folk have been abused for simply asking for a bit of calm and support for the players is really poor too.


Fair point.

[One Day Soon]

GTF and stay on topic:rolleyes:
Any hot dog wisdom?


None. However on this year's fishing trip - coarse, not fly - we were given sausage and chorizo sausage rolls from a very posh butcher in Grayshott, Hampshire. Life changing. Better than a perfectly executed high press.

[bingo70]

Pretty good summary. The supporters booing debate is a red herring really.

I wonder if we’ve not given Heckingbottom enough credit and that was part of his thinking?

Make a bit of an issue elsewhere and we forget about the players?

That’s not a criticism of him by the way, the way things were going if he’s done something to deflect the criticism away from the players he’s done a good job.

[One Day Soon]

I wonder if we’ve not given Heckingbottom enough credit and that was part of his thinking?

Make a bit of an issue elsewhere and we forget about the players?

That’s not a criticism of him by the way, the way things were going if he’s done something to deflect the criticism away from the players he’s done a good job.


I don't know. Maybe. But I know I am tired of second guessing him, the players, each other, Leeann, the recruitment team and now Ron. So I'd just like to see us playing good, fast, attacking football with guts and energy. Then we can all get back to being excited about Hibs instead of being worried about Hibs.

[bingo70]

I don't know. Maybe. But I know I am tired of second guessing him, the players, each other, Leeann, the recruitment team and now Ron. So I'd just like to see us playing good, fast, attacking football with guts and energy. Then we can all get back to being excited about Hibs instead of being worried about Hibs.

Did you only start watching Hibs 3 years ago? 😉

Joking aside, I’ve always been worried about watching Hibs, even when we were good I expected us to **** up so I’m not sure that much has changed.

[Captain Trips]

I don't know. Maybe. But I know I am tired of second guessing him, the players, each other, Leeann, the recruitment team and now Ron. So I'd just like to see us playing good, fast, attacking football with guts and energy. Then we can all get back to being excited about Hibs instead of being worried about Hibs.

Indeed, the way we lined up against Celtic and Sevco was very poor almost lets hope we can hang in. We all know they have good players but having a go is only way to play them.

[One Day Soon]

Did you only start watching Hibs 3 years ago? 😉

Joking aside, I’ve always been worried about watching Hibs, even when we were good I expected us to **** up so I’m not sure that much has changed.


I can honestly say that at 4-1 up in the 2007 League Cup final I still thought we'd somehow concede three more.

[Captain Trips]

I can honestly say that at 4-1 up in the 2007 League Cup final I still thought we'd somehow concede three more.

I remember being at games watching people celebrate when we go 2-0 up and although I did I still felt uneasy. I do though remember the time when we went 0-2 up at the millenium derby and saying to my mate yesss we have won this.

[FilipinoHibs]

Did you only start watching Hibs 3 years ago? 😉

Joking aside, I’ve always been worried about watching Hibs, even when we were good I expected us to **** up so I’m not sure that much has changed.

There were a few games during the Sauzee/Latapy period before Russell went MIA that I was not worried about Hibs. 10 weeks in 50 years is not a lot 😳

[BILLYHIBS]

There were a few games during the Sauzee/Latapy period before Russell went MIA that I was not worried about Hibs. 10 weeks in 50 years is not a lot ��
:agree:

I was never worried watching Turnbulls Tornadoes

It was always a case of how much we would win by

It was like watching a game of chess watching them play

They were only together for about two years

Shudda won more trophies

[SquashedFrogg]

I can honestly say that at 4-1 up in the 2007 League Cup final I still thought we'd somehow concede three more.

Haha. I was exactly the same.

[Doh Rae Me]

When does M+S open?