Genuine Expectations

[Since90+2]

I think as a support there is a need to have a genuine conversation of what the club should be achieving.

Currently our club, and it's all our club regardless of how you rate Heckingbottom, should be finishing about 5th in the league going by budget.

Foundation of Hearts is currently providing millions of pounds a year that we aren't competing with.

Without trolling and arguing, what can we as a support do to close that gap?

[Speedway]

I think as a support there is a need to have a genuine conversation of what the club should be achieving.

Currently our club, and it's all our club regardless of how you rate Heckingbottom, should be finishing about 5th in the league going by budget.

Foundation of Hearts is currently providing millions of pounds a year that we aren't competing with.

Without trolling and arguing, what can we as a support do to close that gap?

Donate to HSL like we should’ve been doing for the last 4 years?

[Sammy7nil]

Use our scouts and available budget well and hopefully pick up a few gems.

Play to a system that suits our players don't fit them in to an unworkable system

Perhaps harness the group build team morale camaraderie have them achieve more than the sum of their parts.

Engage with fans don't be downbeat talking about draws at home

Don't settle for hanging on at home against provincial teams.

Be bold have a swagger don't fear the Old Firm respect them but have a go especially at home.

Above all be Hibs we should always try to play football.

[Since90+2]

Donate to HSL like we should’ve been doing for the last 4 years?

It's not working though in my opinion.

HSL needs a major rebrand to attract more people to it. Call it "Forever Hibs" or something less corporate sounding. HSL hasn't worked ,and I say that as a donator to it.

[Sammy7nil]

It's not working though in my opinion.

HSL needs a major rebrand to attract more people to it. Call it "Forever Hibs" or something less corporate sounding. HSL hasn't worked ,and I say that as a donator to it.

Good shout a rebrand may help with donations from exiled Hibby's or older guys that can no longer attend games.

[Torto7]

Don't be pushovers and give me passages of play where I can have delusions of grandeur for 10 or 15 mins.

[One Day In Time]

I think as a support there is a need to have a genuine conversation of what the club should be achieving.

Currently our club, and it's all our club regardless of how you rate Heckingbottom, should be finishing about 5th in the league going by budget.

Foundation of Hearts is currently providing millions of pounds a year that we aren't competing with.

Without trolling and arguing, what can we as a support do to close that gap?

Their Foundation thing will die away. They ponied up money to save their club and I’ve no doubt we’d do the same. What they’ve done is no more than what we would have done in the same position

They’ll be recruiting fewer new recruits as that ‘cause’ ain’t there any more. Because they’re not replacing the drop offs their pool of contributions will start to dry up.

I think the pin out of the grenade will be when Budge pockets her dosh and hands it all over to them

It will be absolute carnage. There are stormy waters ahead for them

[Sammy7nil]

Their Foundation thing will die away. They ponied up money to save their club and I’ve no doubt we’d do the same. What they’ve done is no more than what we would have done in the same position

They’ll be recruiting fewer new recruits as that ‘cause’ ain’t there any more. Because they’re not replacing the drop offs their pool of contributions will start to dry up.

I think the pin out of the grenade will be when Budge pockets her dosh and hands it all over to them

It will be absolute carnage. There are stormy waters ahead for them

They have being doing it for years and it will be years before it dries up.

[Diclonius]

Way I see it:

1st/2nd: Beyond our wildest dreams
3rd: Target
4th: Acceptable
5th: Bare minimum
6th and below: Failure

[basehibby]

Progress - forward motion - improvement.

That's what I want to see even if it's incremental. Clubs like Hibs will lose key players from time to time but if the proceeds are invested wisely it should still be possible to move forward.

[DetroitHibs]

I expect bottom six, anything more is a bonus. Our average league position for the last 20 years is bottom six. That's not including the relegation years.

[Greencore]

Way I see it:

1st/2nd: Beyond our wildest dreams
3rd: Target
4th: Acceptable
5th: Bare minimum
6th and below: Failure


Pretty much this.

[makaveli1875]

I think as a support there is a need to have a genuine conversation of what the club should be achieving.

Currently our club, and it's all our club regardless of how you rate Heckingbottom, should be finishing about 5th in the league going by budget.

Foundation of Hearts is currently providing millions of pounds a year that we aren't competing with.

Without trolling and arguing, what can we as a support do to close that gap?

We finished above them last 2 seasons and are currently above them. They need to close the gap on us as it stands

[KeithTheHibby]

Their Foundation thing will die away. They ponied up money to save their club and I’ve no doubt we’d do the same. What they’ve done is no more than what we would have done in the same position

They’ll be recruiting fewer new recruits as that ‘cause’ ain’t there any more. Because they’re not replacing the drop offs their pool of contributions will start to dry up.

I think the pin out of the grenade will be when Budge pockets her dosh and hands it all over to them

It will be absolute carnage. There are stormy waters ahead for them

Complete and utter speculation on your part.

[RoYO!]

As hertz have so ably demonstrated, having millions of pounds extra injected doesn’t translate to success on the field. You need the right people spending the money.

[Green Team]

As hertz have so ably demonstrated, having millions of pounds extra injected doesn’t translate to success on the field. You need the right people spending the money.100% spot on, there's numerous examples of this being the case over the years throughout the world of football.

Sent from my Lenovo TB3-X70F using Tapatalk

[Jim44]

Way I see it:

1st/2nd: Beyond our wildest dreams
3rd: Target
4th: Acceptable
5th: Bare minimum
6th and below: Failure

I think we’ll finish in 5th or 6th, with or without PH. If he goes, I don’t think it will be before New Year and probably too late for an incoming manager to take us out of the doldrums.

[The Harp Awakes]

Way I see it:

1st/2nd: Beyond our wildest dreams
3rd: Target
4th: Acceptable
5th: Bare minimum
6th and below: Failure

Agreed. I'd also add that it is reasonable to expect to beat teams like St Johnstone, Motherwell, Kilmarnock etc more often than not.

[danhibees1875]

I think we’ll finish in 5th or 6th, with or without PH. If he goes, I don’t think it will be before New Year and probably too late for an incoming manager to take us out of the doldrums.

Hecky came in late last year and managed to do so. :dunno:

3rd/4th is a good season, 5th is par for course, 6th is poor, and bottom 6 is a huge underachievement.

[mjhibby]

We finished above them last 2 seasons and are currently above them. They need to close the gap on us as it stands

Indeed. There is an obsession with money on here and while it does help Aberdeen had £4m more than us but couldn't finish above killie who had around half their budget. Hertz have had a couple million more than us to spend in the last couple of seasons but have finished behind us. The most important figures at the club are the manager and head of recruitment. It's no surprise that John park has been missed both at us and Celtic. As has been said we need to develop a style of play that suits the players and should we change managers the players would be comfortable knowing the system.
There is no foolproof way to get each manger selection right. LeeAnn has done brilliant ly so far and I trust her judgement. Just as an observation the hertz fans want potter out but are far less vocalising their disapproval. The dons fans put up with the dirge they are served and don't call for mcinness head. Just an observation but a very illuminating one.

[Pretty Boy]

What more can the club be doing? Why are we so far behind Hearts and Aberdeen in commercial income? Why are we turning down shirt sponsorship deals?

It's a sad indictment of Scottish football and those running it that clubs are constantly going to fans asking for handouts. It used to be the case that buying a ticket was 'doing your bit'. Now it's buy your ticket in March, donate to this scheme, give money to this, that and the other. I say that as a fan who does buy my ST on renewal day every year and who has been a member the Erin Trust through the Hibernians and into HSL.

The responsibilty for closing the gap on Hearts and Aberdeen lies with the club. Fans can do their little bits but constantly asking people to dip into their pockets is wearing a bit thin for me.

[JXM73]

I would love to see the high press and attacking football we were promised...oh and those fitness levels never seen before... i expect the team to show a bit.... league positions will take care of themselves...

[we are hibs]

Way I see it:

1st/2nd: Beyond our wildest dreams
3rd: Target
4th: Acceptable
5th: Bare minimum
6th and below: Failure

I agree with this but i would sacrifice top 6 if it meant winning a trophy. Winning trophies, cup parades does more for me than finishing 4th/5th/6th. Its about time we became a club who wins trophies more regularly than we usually do.

[we are hibs]

What more can the club be doing? Why are we so far behind Hearts and Aberdeen in commercial income? Why are we turning down shirt sponsorship deals?

It's a sad indictment of Scottish football and those running it that clubs are constantly going to fans asking for handouts. It used to be the case that buying a ticket was 'doing your bit'. Now it's buy your ticket in March, donate to this scheme, give money to this, that and the other. I say that as a fan who does buy my ST on renewal day every year and who has been a member the Erin Trust through the Hibernians and into HSL.

The responsibilty for closing the gap on Hearts and Aberdeen lies with the club. Fans can do their little bits but constantly asking people to dip into their pockets is wearing a bit thin for me.

This is the thing for me. You dont ask the fans to bring the additional revenue when we are running without a sponsor. Thats just cheek. I would have no problem paying a wee bit extra if i knew it was A) being spent on the first team playing squad and B ) hibs had explored every possible avenue to bring in additional revenue. My gut tells me neither are happening at the minute.

[Sir David Gray]

My expectations are that we actually compete for 3rd place. Whether we actually achieve 3rd or not is another matter.

4th or 5th are acceptable since I consider us to be on a par with Aberdeen and Hearts and I realise that occasionally we will be behind them.

Anything lower than 5th is not good enough.

As far as the cups are concerned, it depends on the draw. With the way that the League Cup is set up now, we should be at least getting to the quarter finals every season.

With the Scottish Cup it's a bit more of a lottery. We should always be coming in at the 4th round stage as a Premiership club but since it's not seeded, we could potentially get Celtic or Rangers away and that would probably be us out. With a kind draw I'd like to see us get into quarter finals or the semi finals more often than not.

I don't think any of the above is unrealistic.

[Onceinawhile]

I'd like the recruitment team to recruit good players and the manager to make them more than the sum of their parts, whilst playing entertaining football.

At the moment, I'm not convinced I'm seeing the first one, I'm definitely not seeing the second and the third is happening more and more sparsely.

[scooby]

I'd like the recruitment team to recruit good players and the manager to make them more than the sum of their parts, whilst playing entertaining football.

At the moment, I'm not convinced I'm seeing the first one, I'm definitely not seeing the second and the third is happening more and more sparsely.

👍

[scooby]

I would love to see the high press and attacking football we were promised...oh and those fitness levels never seen before... i expect the team to show a bit.... league positions will take care of themselves...

Exactly, hopefully we are all starting to see through the bull**** we're being fed by our deluded coach.

[Diclonius]

I agree with this but i would sacrifice top 6 if it meant winning a trophy. Winning trophies, cup parades does more for me than finishing 4th/5th/6th. Its about time we became a club who wins trophies more regularly than we usually do.

Yup, that goes without saying. A trophy regardless of where we finish is a great season.

[Antifa Hibs]

What more can the club be doing? Why are we so far behind Hearts and Aberdeen in commercial income? Why are we turning down shirt sponsorship deals?

It's a sad indictment of Scottish football and those running it that clubs are constantly going to fans asking for handouts. It used to be the case that buying a ticket was 'doing your bit'. Now it's buy your ticket in March, donate to this scheme, give money to this, that and the other. I say that as a fan who does buy my ST on renewal day every year and who has been a member the Erin Trust through the Hibernians and into HSL.

The responsibilty for closing the gap on Hearts and Aberdeen lies with the club. Fans can do their little bits but constantly asking people to dip into their pockets is wearing a bit thin for me.

This.

Aberdeen's record turnover(s) has been the result of decent success on the pitch. Consecutive 2nd place finishes, european football for about 5-6 years on the bounce, a trophy and god-know's how many trips to Hampden. This was well before they launched the AberDNA scheme.

If the club need more money they need to took at generating it. We have no sponsor on our shirt, hospitality section that is around a third full at best, hospitality boxes behind the goal that are used as storage cupboards and now no doubt dwindling home crowds.

I don't agree with the money thing anyway. Hearts have a bigger budget than us and we've finished above them back to back seasons and should be 5 clear of them. Aberdeen and Hibs have bigger budget's than Killie yet Killie finished above both teams last season.

[J-C]

I understand the type of coach/manager wants, a young hungry up and coming progressive one and in Stubbs we had that but circumstances changed. Lennon was out the blue and wasn't a match for our blue print and for a while it worked but his character started overshadowing the club and the rest is history. In comes Heckingbottom as young up and coming hungry coach but he is only 2nd choice, Appleton was it but he was greedy about money if he was sacked, not great tbh and the here we are with Hecky.

We as a club should be pushing for 3rd/4th every season with our budget and not just the odd wee venture into Europe. Our recruitment team are fine and if used properly get it right, Stubbs used it to it's fullest and we had a really decent squad, Lennon and Heckingbottom haven't really benefited from them and used their own contacts to get certain players, Lennon having to twice use the January window and recruitment team to fix his mistakes and it looks like Hecky will have to do the same.

What I want to see is a brand of football that I can be proud of, quick passing, in your face football that will put a smile back on your face, non of this slow side to side back passing slow build up pi sh.

[One Day In Time]

Complete and utter speculation on your part.

Most of this board is speculation and people sharing their opinions. What I do know for sure is that they do have concerns about their drop off stats. Any ‘business’ needs to replace customers lost through death, change of circumstances etc

They are NOT doing that. That is a fact

The rest is my view you’re right

[Yorkshire HFC]

How many times have Hibs finished 3rd in the last 30 years? Not many - that is not a realistic expectation.

[we are hibs]

How many times have Hibs finished 3rd in the last 30 years? Not many - that is not a realistic expectation.

And thats why we will always be a mediocre mid table club. Because we never try to better ourselves and our ambitions.

[SquashedFrogg]

Most of this board is speculation and people sharing their opinions. What I do know for sure is that they do have concerns about their drop off stats. Any ‘business’ needs to replace customers lost through death, change of circumstances etc

They are NOT doing that. That is a fact

The rest is my view you’re right

How is it a fact?

[hibbydog]

Way I see it:

1st/2nd: Beyond our wildest dreams
3rd: Target
4th: Acceptable
5th: Bare minimum
6th and below: Failure

That's very sensible and I totally agree. Which is why I find the current levels of hysteria totally baffling. You should base your expectations on what has happened in the past, not what you want to happen. Two totally separate things.

I've followed Hibs for 30 + years and we've genreally fallen short of expectations. But I go to Easter Road in hope, not expecation. Yes, we should be beating St Johnstone at home. But I've also seen us relegated, beaten 7-0 by Malmo, beaten at home to Stranraer...etc etc

It doesnt stop me from wanting better, but a strong dose of reality would really do a lot of hibbys some good.

GGTTH

[KeithTheHibby]

How many times have Hibs finished 3rd in the last 30 years? Not many - that is not a realistic expectation.

Agreed, historically that hasn't been the case however with the infrastructure and potential this club has I would fully expect Hibs to be challenging for 3rd place every season.

[KeithTheHibby]

Most of this board is speculation and people sharing their opinions. What I do know for sure is that they do have concerns about their drop off stats. Any ‘business’ needs to replace customers lost through death, change of circumstances etc

They are NOT doing that. That is a fact

The rest is my view you’re right

If it's a fact you will be able to provide evidence then?

[B.H.F.C]

How many times have Hibs finished 3rd in the last 30 years? Not many - that is not a realistic expectation.

We’ve under achieved for much of that period.

In those 30 odd years we’ve rarely had 12-13k season ticket holders. We’ve rarely been able to sign players, with relative regularity, for six figure fees.

Chuck in the fact that Kilmarnock managed to finish third on a much smaller budget then finishing third is anything but unrealistic.

[twiceinathens]

How many times have Hibs finished 3rd in the last 30 years? Not many - that is not a realistic expectation.
3 times in last 44 seasons since change from old first division
Relegated three times
average position 6th

[Col2]

I understand the type of coach/manager wants, a young hungry up and coming progressive one and in Stubbs we had that but circumstances changed. Lennon was out the blue and wasn't a match for our blue print and for a while it worked but his character started overshadowing the club and the rest is history. In comes Heckingbottom as young up and coming hungry coach but he is only 2nd choice, Appleton was it but he was greedy about money if he was sacked, not great tbh and the here we are with Hecky.

We as a club should be pushing for 3rd/4th every season with our budget and not just the odd wee venture into Europe. Our recruitment team are fine and if used properly get it right, Stubbs used it to it's fullest and we had a really decent squad, Lennon and Heckingbottom haven't really benefited from them and used their own contacts to get certain players, Lennon having to twice use the January window and recruitment team to fix his mistakes and it looks like Hecky will have to do the same.

What I want to see is a brand of football that I can be proud of, quick passing, in your face football that will put a smile back on your face, non of this slow side to side back passing slow build up pi sh.

That’s a great summary. Add in the last of the feel good factor from May 2016 has disappeared and other than Scott Allan we don’t have many players to get us very excited (mcginn, McGeouch, even Cummings) then it’s logical to see why things feel crap at the moment.

[SquashedFrogg]

I understand the type of coach/manager wants, a young hungry up and coming progressive one and in Stubbs we had that but circumstances changed. Lennon was out the blue and wasn't a match for our blue print and for a while it worked but his character started overshadowing the club and the rest is history. In comes Heckingbottom as young up and coming hungry coach but he is only 2nd choice, Appleton was it but he was greedy about money if he was sacked, not great tbh and the here we are with Hecky.

We as a club should be pushing for 3rd/4th every season with our budget and not just the odd wee venture into Europe. Our recruitment team are fine and if used properly get it right, Stubbs used it to it's fullest and we had a really decent squad, Lennon and Heckingbottom haven't really benefited from them and used their own contacts to get certain players, Lennon having to twice use the January window and recruitment team to fix his mistakes and it looks like Hecky will have to do the same.

What I want to see is a brand of football that I can be proud of, quick passing, in your face football that will put a smile back on your face, non of this slow side to side back passing slow build up pi sh.

Stubbs built a team in the championship. There was plenty of 'side to side' football under him. Lennon certainly benfited from that squad initially but couldn't maintain it when a few big players left. Hence the slide down the table last season before PH arrived.

[One Day In Time]

If it's a fact you will be able to provide evidence then?

I know someone with connections at FOH. They are not replacing year on year, the pledgers they are losing.

That I’m itself is hardly surprising surely given how long ago they were in admin.

Have a wee look across the road. They’re in turmoil. The ante Levein camp is growing and the anti Budge group is also gathering momentum

It’s going to get very very messy unless they start getting some good results and quickly

[One Day In Time]

How is it a fact?

Well my flattened reptilian friend, you’ll just have to take my word for it.

Have a think about it. The emotional pull involved in getting out of admin, getting promoted and consolidating has long been replaced by Leveins hoofball, Budges alienation of a big part of their fan base, the new stand fiasco and now a run of league game results that looks like this. The natives are revolting.

lwwdldlwllldlllldl

[monktonharp]

I think as a support there is a need to have a genuine conversation of what the club should be achieving.

Currently our club, and it's all our club regardless of how you rate Heckingbottom, should be finishing about 5th in the league going by budget.

Foundation of Hearts is currently providing millions of pounds a year that we aren't competing with.

Without trolling and arguing, what can we as a support do to close that gap?I genuinely expect us to be challenging seriously , year in year out for at least 3rd position and at least.....regular cup semi finals. the gorgie mob have much more debt to service that we do. that is all

[Yorkshire HFC]

3 times in last 44 seasons since change from old first division
Relegated three times
average position 6th

And I've been watching / following Hibs since I was 7 - that's 46 of those years. Through the Ormond, Auld and Blackley times - these wee the real bad times, not now. Ofcourse as a fan you want better, but as I get older, I also get more realistic.

[Sammy7nil]

How many times have Hibs finished 3rd in the last 30 years? Not many - that is not a realistic expectation.

FFS Motherwell finished third back to back was that realistic?

It is realistic whether we achieve it is another matter.

[Since452]

I expect to see us playing better football as the weeks go on.
PH will get the new players gelled into the team he wants, playing the way he wants.
Fully confident in him and expecting loads from the team.

Exciting times ahead and really looking forward to them.

Completely agree

[Sioux]

I know someone with connections at FOH. They are not replacing year on year, the pledgers they are losing.

That I’m itself is hardly surprising surely given how long ago they were in admin.

Have a wee look across the road. They’re in turmoil. The ante Levein camp is growing and the anti Budge group is also gathering momentum

It’s going to get very very messy unless they start getting some good results and quickly

Change a few names and that's a mirror image of what's going on here.

[One Day In Time]

[/B]

Change a few names and that's a mirror image of what's going on here.

I agree but the context of the statement was in relation to future Foundation pledges. They’ve got folks cancelling because they’re fed up with results.

The point I was making is that now they’ve saved their club, they’ll stop pledging if results are crap or they disagree with signings etc

[monktonharp]

I agree but the context of the statement was in relation to future Foundation pledges. They’ve got folks cancelling because they’re fed up with results.

The point I was making is that now they’ve saved their club, they’ll stop pledging if results are crap or they disagree with signings etcon the converse side, there are none contributing to our similar system as they cant see progress any time soon. Am I wrong ? the new ownership has compounded that, as he has made very few comments

[jacomo]

That's very sensible and I totally agree. Which is why I find the current levels of hysteria totally baffling. You should base your expectations on what has happened in the past, not what you want to happen. Two totally separate things.

I've followed Hibs for 30 + years and we've genreally fallen short of expectations. But I go to Easter Road in hope, not expecation. Yes, we should be beating St Johnstone at home. But I've also seen us relegated, beaten 7-0 by Malmo, beaten at home to Stranraer...etc etc

It doesnt stop me from wanting better, but a strong dose of reality would really do a lot of hibbys some good.

GGTTH


Like you I’m too old to get hysterical about football these days, but given all that Hibs have done to put us in terms of investment in infrastructure etc, we should now be looking to reap the benefits, shouldn’t we?

4th seems an entirely reasonable target.

[One Day In Time]

on the converse side, there are none contributing to our similar system as they cant see progress any time soon. Am I wrong ? the new ownership has compounded that, as he has made very few comments

I agree. The difference was though that we weren’t staring down the barrel of a gun. Sometimes it needs a massive foot up the backside to shock people into action.

I think we’ve been a bit lazy and complacent.

The point though about across the road though was made in response to someone talking about the gap created by them having their foundation pledges

My point was and still is, that their numbers are only going one way due to a combination of job done mentality, not replacing expired donors, and protests about the results and way the club is being run

[Hibees210516]

When you look around the whole league and take it all into consideration, there is no way that we should be expecting a bottom 6 finish. We should definitely be targeting for a top 4 finish. We are not looking particularly amazing this season (which I think is down to incompetence this season through our manager) but neither have other teams. Killie, Hearts and even Aberdeen have not looked particularly dangerous themselves. If Hecky decides to start making sense in his tactical approaches and narrows down a way of playing football with the players he has got then I think we will be fine to assume a top 4 target.

If we sort out all the issues with our matchday tactics we could be a completely different team. Hecky doesn't know what formation he wants to play and with what players - I mean 442 with 2 target men and Scotty Allan right wing? come on. Also its clear as day - if he wants us to have high pressure from the front, it makes absolutely no sense for our defensive line to sit so deep as they have been. The high pressure up front and deep back line creates a massive amount of space in the middle which we are getting exploited for. Hecky also fails to see the positions we need filling and its worrying that he can't see this.

If we fix our recruitment and sort out our tactical shape I feel we have a team that can play football and can challenge for 4th and even 3rd.

[Keith_M]

First and foremost, we need to retain what we do have. This includes, for the last three seasons, our highest average support in over forty years. That is our main source of income and we really don't want people to start drifting away.

To ensure that doesn't happen, people have to be leaving Easter Road having enjoyed the game of football they just watched. Struggling to beat teams that will likely be fighting relegation, or even teams from lower leagues, while playing unnatractive football are not going to help.

The message to the coach and players has to be "step up to the mark or make room for somebody else that will".


If we start playing attractive football, beat 'lesser' teams comfortably and compete well against the bigger sides, no matter who the coach is, I'll be happy with that.

[Hibiza]

Sorry to say but yet another year of mediocrity 6th.