...after just 3 games

[Speedway]

Is a phrase getting a lot of usage by those defending the manager.

Except it’s not 3 games is it.

He’s won 2 league games since the beginning of April, won 1 game against top 6 opposition out of 8, played dull football in almost all 22 matches so far, laid down to Rangers and picked up 11 of his 12 wins versus bottom six or part time teams.

The reaction you’re reading on .net is of a support who have sussed him out 6 games slower than fans of his last club.

Not ‘after just 3 games’.

[Kaff]

Is a phrase getting a lot of usage by those defending the manager.

Except it’s not 3 games is it.

He’s won 2 league games since the beginning of April, won 1 game against top 6 opposition out of 8, played dull football in almost all 22 matches so far, laid down to Rangers and picked up 11 of his 12 wins versus bottom six or part time teams.

The reaction you’re reading on .net is of a support who have sussed him out 6 games slower than fans of his last club.

Not ‘after just 3 games’.

Agree 100%
Strangely yesterday we played with pace, aggression and impetus directly after they scored their first goal, we equalise and then go back to slow, safe triangles with sideways backwards and then hoofed clearances again.
Bizarre that he can't see that is what invites all the pressure on us?
We have lost the art of quick short passing in straight lines through the midfield and with it any chance of competing with the better teams.
Unfortunately he has to go if that's where we're heading as its a style of play relying on individual stars like Fenlon had with Leigh baling him out, we've now got Scott A who he's trying to marginalise!

[The 90+2]

Yep. It’s a major security blanket.

[ac1]

Thing is I have said on more than a few occasion I don’t think I have seen us fired up under Heckingbottom - could be wrong but I have never came away from any game under him yet saying we were really up for that. Even Tynecastle we got lucky that they missed 2 or 3 sitters. I actually thought St Johnstone came out fired up in the 2nd half yesterday. When are we going to do that? The Easter Road Derby we were the better side but Hearts came out fired up 2nd half and could have won it in the end

[DH1875]

Will be interesting to see how he sets us up at home against celtic, the rangers and the yams. If its just sitting in and waiting for them to break us down I think I'll scream.

[Wakeyhibee]

Is a phrase getting a lot of usage by those defending the manager.

Except it’s not 3 games is it.

He’s won 2 league games since the beginning of April, won 1 game against top 6 opposition out of 8, played dull football in almost all 22 matches so far, laid down to Rangers and picked up 11 of his 12 wins versus bottom six or part time teams.

The reaction you’re reading on .net is of a support who have sussed him out 6 games slower than fans of his last club.

Not ‘after just 3 games’.

Agreeing more and more with this, although picking stats from the poor run of form detracts from the point.

As it stands I think we're Mid table average. Unfortunately there's 8 other clubs like that too. It's not gonna take much for it to go reasonably well, mid table or a disaster.

I can't see us changing manager now and he'll get til November unless that is RG is the type for results now.

[The Leith Dutch]

Is a phrase getting a lot of usage by those defending the manager.

Except it’s not 3 games is it.

He’s won 2 league games since the beginning of April, won 1 game against top 6 opposition out of 8, played dull football in almost all 22 matches so far, laid down to Rangers and picked up 11 of his 12 wins versus bottom six or part time teams.

The reaction you’re reading on .net is of a support who have sussed him out 6 games slower than fans of his last club.

Not ‘after just 3 games’.

I do find it odd that the other games are not counted.

While there is often kneejerk BS on here the current judgement is on much more than 3 games and is a result of a number of things:
- Worsening results following a promising start
- Poor performances regardless of results
- Tactical naivity
- Odd team formations
- Playing players out of pisition
- Unconvincing recruitment

The problem with much of the above is that it's not easy to see any manager turning all that around.
I certainly don't see PH turning it all around.

I think the best he could hope for is getting a bit lucky with results which would do nothing other than papering over the cracks.

[Hiber-nation]

Agreeing more and more with this, although picking stats from the poor run of form detracts from the point.

As it stands I think we're Mid table average. Unfortunately there's 8 other clubs like that too. It's not gonna take much for it to go reasonably well, mid table or a disaster.

I can't see us changing manager now and he'll get til November unless that is RG is the type for results now.

Look at the games we have coming up... Motherwell away, Killie away twice, hearts, Celtic and Aberdeen. Huge improvement needed for us to get anything from that lot.

[Wakeyhibee]

Look at the games we have coming up... Motherwell away, Killie away twice, hearts, Celtic and Aberdeen. Huge improvement needed for us to get anything from that lot.

Agree, i was giving it up to the Motherwell game. A win yesterday and a point at Fir Park would have put any concerns on hold.

[The Harp Awakes]

Thing is I have said on more than a few occasion I don’t think I have seen us fired up under Heckingbottom - could be wrong but I have never came away from any game under him yet saying we were really up for that. Even Tynecastle we got lucky that they missed 2 or 3 sitters. I actually thought St Johnstone came out fired up in the 2nd half yesterday. When are we going to do that? The Easter Road Derby we were the better side but Hearts came out fired up 2nd half and could have won it in the end

I agree about lack of motivation. For me, one of the worst performances under Heckingbottom was in the Cup last season against Celtic at Easter Road. The way he set up the team that day was abysmal and we didn't lay a glove on them. There was no passion or heart and it looked to me he had already conceded the game and was trying to keep the score down. It was a Cup tie at home FFS. I said on here after that game that we better get ready for regular pumpings against Rangers and Celtic and got a fair bit of abuse for it. A few months later we played Rangers at home in the league and got well and truly rodgered by them in the 1st half. How we were only 1 goal down at HT was astonishing. Happily we scored in the 2nd half to get a draw but the scoreline was a farce. Wind the clock forward to the start of this season and we get well and truly humiliated at Ibrox. A total embarrassment as it should have been 10.

Others have pointed to the stats which say that Heck's record is decent. However for me these stats are disguising the truth which is we are going backwards under the current Manager. Alan Stubbs said that when he arrived at Hibs the players were scared to play at Easter Road and that they were mentally weak. Well all the good work Stubbs and Lennon did to instil a bit of steel in the team looks to have vanished now. I think swift action is needed otherwise this could turn much worse.

[Crab apple]

I agree about lack of motivation. For me, one of the worst performances under Heckingbottom was in the Cup last season against Celtic at Easter Road. The way he set up the team that day was abysmal and we didn't lay a glove on them. There was no passion or heart and it looked to me he had already conceded the game and was trying to keep the score down. It was a Cup tie at home FFS. I said on here after that game that we better get ready for regular pumpings against Rangers and Celtic and got a fair bit of abuse for it. A few months later we played Rangers at home in the league and got well and truly rodgered by them in the 1st half. How we were only 1 goal down at HT was astonishing. Happily we scored in the 2nd half to get a draw but the scoreline was a farce. Wind the clock forward to the start of this season and we get well and truly humiliated at Ibrox. A total embarrassment as it should have been 10.

Others have pointed to the stats which say that Heck's record is decent. However for me these stats are disguising the truth which is we are going backwards under the current Manager. Alan Stubbs said that when he arrived at Hibs the players were scared to play at Easter Road and that they were mentally weak. Well all the good work Stubbs and Lennon did to instil a bit of steel in the team looks to have vanished now. I think swift action is needed otherwise this could turn much worse.

The stats are that we’ve shipped 11 goals in 3 games. And for me the performances haven’t been anywhere near good enough.

[Hakim Sar]

I'd love for PH to turn this ship around but I just don't see it happening. He has signed players from a market that he clearly knows well and has a lot of faith in, they may come good, I hope they do. There's a big part of me that really wants Hecky to turn this round, not just for Hibs but for himself. I'm rooting for him, there's something about him that I really like and it's bitterly disappointing that we look complete rubbish in a weak league. But there is a real feeling that Heckys signings are just not up to it as a collective unit. Echoes of Fenlons loan signings, who on paper had some credentials, but on grass where the game is actually played we're nothing short of brutal.When Hibs have to revamp an entire squad it feels like a failure more often than a success. Would have been interesting to see us really only persue a policy of minimal transfer transactions but signing one or two real quality additions that can be sold on. Instead we have 5 or 6 players that we are lumbered with and have me petrified of another relegation scrap which could severely damage the club and the hard work of the last 5 years.

[SMAXXA]

3 league games with his squad is that better? Agree with your points btw but can’t really use last season good or bad as it wasn’t his team this is where he should be getting judged. Finished top of the LC group, into the quarters, W1 D1 and L1 in the league and it’s still August that’s another way to look at it

[Sir David Gray]

Is a phrase getting a lot of usage by those defending the manager.

Except it’s not 3 games is it.

He’s won 2 league games since the beginning of April, won 1 game against top 6 opposition out of 8, played dull football in almost all 22 matches so far, laid down to Rangers and picked up 11 of his 12 wins versus bottom six or part time teams.

The reaction you’re reading on .net is of a support who have sussed him out 6 games slower than fans of his last club.

Not ‘after just 3 games’.

We've actually only won one game out of ten against last season's top six sides.

Hibs 0-2 Celtic
Hibs 1-1 Rangers
Hibs 0-0 Kilmarnock
Hearts 1-2 Hibs
Hibs 0-0 Celtic
Hibs 1-1 Hearts
Rangers 1-0 Hibs
Kilmarnock 1-0 Hibs
Hibs 1-2 Aberdeen
Rangers 6-1 Hibs

[Speedway]

3 league games with his squad is that better? Agree with your points btw but can’t really use last season good or bad as it wasn’t his team this is where he should be getting judged. Finished top of the LC group, into the quarters, W1 D1 and L1 in the league and it’s still August that’s another way to look at it

Same type of football with his squad and his predecessors Smaxxa.

Not what we need, however we slice it.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

What if he gave the guys in position a shot and then decided he needed to change things up - that to implement his plans the likes of Milligan would have to move on but replacements would be challenging to find and take time to gel?

Stats can be used to highlight many things but often mask the true picture. for the - we
we scrapped through by the skin of our teeth there’s the bonkers linesman decisions

i say let him get his head down and on with the job like Stubbs and Mogga were given the time
to do and let’s see where we are. I’m not enamoured with the performances against the Uglies - he needs to show he can learn from that.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Is a phrase getting a lot of usage by those defending the manager.

Except it’s not 3 games is it.

He’s won 2 league games since the beginning of April, won 1 game against top 6 opposition out of 8, played dull football in almost all 22 matches so far, laid down to Rangers and picked up 11 of his 12 wins versus bottom six or part time teams.

The reaction you’re reading on .net is of a support who have sussed him out 6 games slower than fans of his last club.

Not ‘after just 3 games’.

Tony Mowbray's start as Hibs manager after twenty two games is statistically worse than Heckingbottom's, just so you're aware.

Mowbray: P22, W10, D4, L8

Heckingbottom: P22, W11, D6, L5

And in that Mowbray start were embarrassing defeats to FK Vetra, a 4-4 draw against Dundee from a 4-1 lead, back-to-back defeats against a bang average Kilmarnock side and a derby defeat to boot.

I'm not suggesting that Heckingbottom is likely to go on and replicate Mowbray's success with us, but well done on 'sussing' him out.

[JimBHibees]

Tony Mowbray's start as Hibs manager after twenty games is statistically worse than Heckingbottom's, just so you're aware.

Mowbray: P22, W10, D4, L8

Heckingbottom: P22, W11, D6, L5

And in that Mowbray start were embarrassing defeats to FK Vetra, a 4-4 draw against Dundee from a 4-1 lead, back-to-back defeats against a bang average Kilmarnock side and a derby defeat to boot.

I'm not suggesting that Heckingbottom is likely to go on and replicate Mowbray's success with us, but well done on 'sussing' him out.

Any fan could see the quality of the football under Mowbray with a largely very young untried team and was night and day with what we saw on Saturday. All very slow to me and while yes we can control the game to some extent we should be at teams right from the start at home, there is little tempo and intensity. To drop off like we did and be dominated by a functional St Johnstone team was pretty depressing. The midfield put out was bizarre and defensively we were all over the place.

[bingo70]

Tony Mowbray's start as Hibs manager after twenty games is statistically worse than Heckingbottom's, just so you're aware.

Mowbray: P22, W10, D4, L8

Heckingbottom: P22, W11, D6, L5

And in that Mowbray start were embarrassing defeats to FK Vetra, a 4-4 draw against Dundee from a 4-1 lead, back-to-back defeats against a bang average Kilmarnock side and a derby defeat to boot.

I'm not suggesting that Heckingbottom is likely to go on and replicate Mowbray's success with us, but well done on 'sussing' him out.

I get annoyed at managers win % being discussed because it doesnt tell the whole story and people put too much emphasis on them.

Does your games for Heckingbottom include league cup group games against amateur or semi professional sides we should be beating comfortably? Have the games against Morton and Stirling Albion been marked as wins or draws? Mowbray never got the luxury of extra time to put away sides in his draws.

You’ve then got to take into account performance levels and judging what we saw in the park with our own eyes and not based on stats. I don’t remember those games under Mowbray but I do remember watching Mowbrays side, even in his early days, and enjoying what i saw.

[HibeeHibernian4]

You’ve then got to take into account performance levels and judging what we saw in the park with our own eyes and not based on stats. I don’t remember those games under Mowbray but I do remember watching Mowbrays side, even in his early days, and enjoying what i saw.

Is there a chance that this is nostalgic whitewashing of the start of the Mowbray era? Because it ended well, you believe it must've always been going well. It wasn't. No better than Heckingbottom's start, anyway.

[bingo70]

Is there a chance that this is nostalgic whitewashing of the start of the Mowbray era? Because it ended well, you believe it must've always been going well. It wasn't. No better than Heckingbottom's start, anyway.

I don’t think it is.

There’s a reason Heckingbottom is under pressure now and Mowbray wasn’t then, it’s not because people just hate him as he has a silly name. This Hibs team is rubbish imo, Mowbrays team was good, even if it wasn’t without its flaws.

[Keith_M]

Agree 100%
Strangely yesterday we played with pace, aggression and impetus directly after they scored their first goal, we equalise and then go back to slow, safe triangles with sideways backwards and then hoofed clearances again.
Bizarre that he can't see that is what invites all the pressure on us?



That was something I found really bizarre.

We showed for a very short spell, that we can play fantastically exciting, attacking football, and Flo's finish was a contender for goal of the season. Then we seem to go straight back to turgid football.

(This isn't a comment on should he stay or go, just an observation)



I was also confused that he could see that Allan wasn't contributing enough on the wing but, instead of moving him to where he would be more effective, he subbed him.

I'm wondering if he knows how to get the best out of the players at his disposal or if he has a rigid 'style' that he wants to play and tries to force a square peg into a round hole.

[The Leith Dutch]

That was something I found really bizarre.

We showed for a very short spell, that we can play fantastically exciting, attacking football, and Flo's finish was a contender for goal of the season. Then we seem to go straight back to turgid football.

(This isn't a comment on should he stay or go, just an observation)



I was also confused that he could see that Allan wasn't contributing enough on the wing but, instead of moving him to where he would be more effective, he subbed him.

I'm wondering if he knows how to get the best out of the players at his disposal or if he has a rigid 'style' that he wants to play and tries to force a square peg into a round hole.

Ultimately the reason I'm firmly in the move PH on category is that I don't see him being capable of turning it round.

I genuinely thinks he looks at the formation, the team selection and where he's playing players as being "right" and that if he just keeps doing the same thing results will improve.
I completely disagree - I think it needs a change of approach if he's to see an improvement.

I think he's playing a formation that won't work in this league and certainly won't work with the players we've got and against the opposition we're playing in the SPL.
I'm also increasingly of the opinion that he thinks if a player isn't delivering from the position he's being played in that the answer is not changing the position but the player trying harder or following his instruction better.

Clearly that's all my opinion rather than anything else but given there's a sizeable chunk of people who think he should get more time I'm genuinely curious as to why.
Presumably they don't think that what we're seeing right now is good performances?
So given that I'd like to understand what they're seeing that gives them the impression that PH will turn things around.

I'm just not seeing anything other than the same kind of stubborness Butcher had that it couldn't possibly be what he was doing that was leading to the bad performances and ultimately bad results.

[B.H.F.C]

Is there a chance that this is nostalgic whitewashing of the start of the Mowbray era? Because it ended well, you believe it must've always been going well. It wasn't. No better than Heckingbottom's start, anyway.

Nope, you could clearly see what he was trying to develop.

That 4-4 game with Dundee that you mention, we had a 20 minute spell of football, which is up there with the best football I’ve ever seen from a Hibs team. I remember Riordan scoring the most incredible volley to make it 5-1 which was (wrongly) disallowed. We then capitulated but the type of football we saw was night and day to Heckingbottom.

A fairer question for me would be how you felt after 22 games under Mowbray. IMO, nobody would have been bored and not particularly fussed for going to ER. He was bringing fans back, Heckingbottom is having the opposite effect at the moment.

[Speedway]

Tony Mowbray's start as Hibs manager after twenty two games is statistically worse than Heckingbottom's, just so you're aware.

Mowbray: P22, W10, D4, L8

Heckingbottom: P22, W11, D6, L5

And in that Mowbray start were embarrassing defeats to FK Vetra, a 4-4 draw against Dundee from a 4-1 lead, back-to-back defeats against a bang average Kilmarnock side and a derby defeat to boot.

I'm not suggesting that Heckingbottom is likely to go on and replicate Mowbray's success with us, but well done on 'sussing' him out.

Completely comparable budgets and performances. Well done for pointing that out.

[Turkish Green]

We've actually only won one game out of ten against last season's top six sides.

Hibs 0-2 Celtic
Hibs 1-1 Rangers
Hibs 0-0 Kilmarnock
Hearts 1-2 Hibs
Hibs 0-0 Celtic
Hibs 1-1 Hearts
Rangers 1-0 Hibs
Kilmarnock 1-0 Hibs
Hibs 1-2 Aberdeen
Rangers 6-1 Hibs

Hearts are going through their own problems at the moment under Potter. The derby at ER will be the last chance saloon as far as I am concerned. A defeat and Heckinbottom must be gone.

[Percy Vere]

Look at the games we have coming up... Motherwell away, Killie away twice, hearts, Celtic and Aberdeen. Huge improvement needed for us to get anything from that lot.

Why?
Cos Motherwell, Killie, Hearts and Aberdeen are on fire?????
Get a grip

[Hiber-nation]

Why?
Cos Motherwell, Killie, Hearts and Aberdeen are on fire?????
Get a grip

I have a grip thanks.

If you don't think they are potentially difficult games considering the way we've been playing then good on you.

[brianmc]

Hearts are going through their own problems at the moment under Potter. The derby at ER will be the last chance saloon as far as I am concerned. A defeat and Heckinbottom must be gone.

As poor as that lot are you can guarentee they'll be well organised and fired up for the Derby.
Us?
I fear we'll continue to be a disorganised, (apparently) unmotivated shambles.
I'm NOT looking forward to it.

[The Leith Dutch]

Why?
Cos Motherwell, Killie, Hearts and Aberdeen are on fire?????
Get a grip

What a lot of folk are looking at is how we're playing games rather than the results.
The above teams - particularly Hearts and Aberdeen - are, while sometimes uninspiring, usually well organised and competitive in the middle of the park.
Given how we're playing right now those attributes alone suggest they'll be a problem for us.

Not saying they're great teams by any stretch but St Johnstone are a worse team and they turned us over in the second half on Saturday.