Neandrathal BBC Pundits

[Cataplana]

On the radio yesterday, Michael Stewart rightly pointed out that Rangers can hardly say they are tackling sectarianism when they are selling Orange strips. He was the subjected to a tirade of vitriol from Billy Dodds, and particularly Derek Ferguson, who claimed the strips were an homage to the Dutch players who did so well for them in the past.

Time and again, Michael asked Ferguson if he could not see the connotations between an Orange strip, and the songs that the Huns sing. At one point I thought it would be fisticuffs, and Richard Gordon had to move the subject on.

My point is this. If the BBC employ people to comment on football, they should have to demonstrate an awareness of the issues involved (Ferguson said he could not see the connotation, and hadn't considered it until Stewart spoke - the contradiction was very much in keeping with his performance on the day). There must be some sort of diversity training that pundits can go on, as all Ferguson and Dodds did was fly a partisan flag, instead of admitting there is a connection between Rangers, Sectarianism, and the Orange Order.

If they want to argue that the Orange strips have nothing to do with that, with a straight face, then that is their business. As it was, the BBC could probably find more impartial contributors in the Loudon Arms.

[hibee1875]

I heard this too and was gobsmacked in all honesty that this was happening on the BBC and not Rangers TV.

Even Billy Dodds comment of “when I was young we’d go to the games and sing these songs and it was fine. It’s not fine nowadays, the young boys don’t know what they’re singing about”. How was it fine to sing it back in the day!?

Two absolute deluded dinosaurs. Rangers issue will never go away when everyone connected with them has their head so far in the sand.

[Dr Jimmy]

I couldn’t believe what I was hearing from those two yesterday. I actually burst out laughing when Ferguson said he hadn’t thought of the correlation with the tops and sectarianism until Stewart just mentioned it.

Operation sweep it under the carpet has begun!

[BILLYHIBS]

Michael Stewart fast becoming one of my favourite pundits

Everyone connected with The Rangers needs to be sent on a rehabilitation course

Starting to feel that Steven Gerrard is genuinely embarrassed by the behaviour of all of his clubs fans

[Carheenlea]

I heard this too and was gobsmacked in all honesty that this was happening on the BBC and not Rangers TV.

Even Billy Dodds comment of “when I was young we’d go to the games and sing these songs and it was fine. It’s not fine nowadays, the young boys don’t know what they’re singing about”. How was it fine to sing it back in the day!?

Two absolute deluded dinosaurs. Rangers issue will never go away when everyone connected with them has their head so far in the sand.

Billy Dodds is effectively saying that his generation knew what the songs about so that made it OK in his day. Guys a clown, and it’s a sad state of affairs that guys like him and Ferguson are being paid to be pundits by the BBC. Surely there are more thoughtful and erudite commentators of Scottish football than those pair.

[CloudSquall]

That line from Billy Dodds is incredible (for all the wrong reasons).

Let's say the songs were about ethnic minorities instead of catholics and he came out with the "when I was young we’d go to the games and sing these songs and it was fine" patter, he wouldn't be in a job now and would be unemployable going forward.

[JimBHibees]

Billy Dodds is effectively saying that his generation knew what the songs about so that made it OK in his day. Guys a clown, and it’s a sad state of affairs that guys like him and Ferguson are being paid to be pundits by the BBC. Surely there are more thoughtful and erudite commentators of Scottish football than those pair.

Ferguson and Dodds aren't the brightest to be fair.

[JimBHibees]

Billy Dodds is effectively saying that his generation knew what the songs about so that made it OK in his day. Guys a clown, and it’s a sad state of affairs that guys like him and Ferguson are being paid to be pundits by the BBC. Surely there are more thoughtful and erudite commentators of Scottish football than those pair.

The only reason they get a job is because they both played for Rangers

[hibee1875]

https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/complaints/forms/?lang=en&reset=&uid=309158700

[Crab apple]

It’s beyond embarrasing. They might not be the brightest lights in the room but they’re having a laugh if they can’t see the link.

[Pretty Boy]

I heard this too and was gobsmacked in all honesty that this was happening on the BBC and not Rangers TV.

Even Billy Dodds comment of “when I was young we’d go to the games and sing these songs and it was fine. It’s not fine nowadays, the young boys don’t know what they’re singing about”. How was it fine to sing it back in the day!?

Two absolute deluded dinosaurs. Rangers issue will never go away when everyone connected with them has their head so far in the sand.

That whole conversation was totally mental. 'These songs are offensive now' is the same as saying 'it's PC gone mad'. The songs are offensive now but they have always been offensive. It's the defence of the man who still talks about the 'nipping to the pakis for a pint of milk' despite everyone and their dog knowing that is a racial slur. It's not that the words have suddenly become offensive,, it's people now being brave enough to call it our for what it is.

Rangers (and Celtic) ultimately have little to gain by seriously tackling sectarianism. It's big business. Of course they will tick the boxes, broadcast the messages and so on but the orange strips, training tops etc will remain. It would also be interesting to know how many people either club has banned over the last decade, as an example time line, for such behaviour. At Ibrox recently a huge majority were singing the Billy Boys and Build My Gallows amongst others. Did the extensive Police presence, stewards, CCTV, SLOs and all the smart phones with cameras in the stadium not capture any of it?

[weecounty hibby]

Ferguson and Dodds aren't the brightest to be fair.
Being thick isn't an excuse for being a bigot

[James Stephen]

I couldn’t believe what I was hearing from those two yesterday. I actually burst out laughing when Ferguson said he hadn’t thought of the correlation with the tops and sectarianism until Stewart just mentioned it.

Operation sweep it under the carpet has begun!


The thing is, it doesn't matter a jot whether Derek Ferguson gets the connotations, he's hardly known for his razor sharp intellect. He's still struggling to read a match report out unless it's written in big capitals with a crayon.

The point is, we can all be damn sure that the huns marketing do know the connotations, and that is the point that Michael Stewart was making.

The quality of the guys they have on their now is lamentable. It used to be mostly made up of journalists, now it's ex players who are barely literate, often don't even understand the rules (saying 'in my day' or 'for me' doesn't negate the fact that the rules have changed).

[DMH0762]

It’s beyond embarrasing. They might not be the brightest lights in the room but they’re having a laugh if they can’t see the link.

Aye that William of Orange stuff escaped me too. Cannot for the life of me see the connection. Was King Billious not a raging homo ?

[James310]

They has a strip a few years ago with a sash running across it as well. I actually emailed Hummel the strip makers to point out they were endorsing bigotry as I suspected they never knew the significance, they were not interested. I don't for one minute believe Ferguson never saw the connection, he is a liar.

[hibbydog]

Being thick isn't an excuse for being a bigot

No but it is a reason, sadly.

[Fife-Hibee]

Well Billy Dodds was half right. The orange strips and scarfs are certainly in reference to A Dutchman...

The fact he thinks it’s ok to sing those songs (as long as you understand what they’re about) shows what a slavering bigot he actually is.

If the BBC had any integrity whatsoever, they’d sack him right now. But seeing as they don’t, it’s more likely Stewart (fair play to him) will get a slap on the wrist.

[Hibee Mac]

Michael Stewart - great pundit.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

I also heard Ferguson say that 'those types of songs' have now become offensive! WTF.

[BlackSheep]

They has a strip a few years ago with a sash running across it as well. I actually emailed Hummel the strip makers to point out they were endorsing bigotry as I suspected they never knew the significance, they were not interested. I don't for one minute believe Ferguson never saw the connection, he is a liar.

Denmark, where Hummel originated from, is predominantly a Protestant country. While they are not as fanatical about religion as other countries, they definitely er on that side of Christianity and it’s no surprise Hummel are more than happy to ignore the bigoted aspect of their strip designs.

On top of that, they know their market and all the hun fans will be throwing their money at anything to represent their religious hatred!

[wookie70]

From what Ferguson said he is a representative of Nil by Mouth and Kick It Out or similar organisations. He clearly said that The Rangers songbook was NOW deemed to be offensive. That is breathtaking ignorance. In his exchange about the orange kit he just sounded like a typical The Rangers fan. Stewart was saying that Ferguson was arguing that the club had done EVERYTHING they could and that having Orange strips was clearly an indication that that was not the case. Dodds wasn't any better and in a discussion that should have been about moving forward it felt like the old guard were far more comfortable in the past.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Cat amongst the Pigeons - love it;)

The marketers would hold the party line tho and would likely claim it was homage to the Dutch in the same way they did for the English players with that saddo George’s cross...

The Beeb are terrible surprisingly Off the Ball got in on the act about a month ago. A former player had written a show which on the face of it appear to be able the relationships between the uglies fans and their clubs they got around the sectarian issues by saying they counted the jokes and that there was an equal number for each team - top bantz.

When the dinosaur that is Tam Cowan (who should know better after his suspension) brings out references to the 70s term for a double choc wafer (and justifies if like Billy Dodds did - different era) and doesn’t get pulled up you know there’s a theme or culture in the Beeb around this.

[Cataplana]

https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/complaints/forms/?lang=en&reset=&uid=309158700

I've copied my original post to them. Anyone who wants to use it can feel free.

[Cataplana]

Denmark, where Hummel originated from, is predominantly a Protestant country. While they are not as fanatical about religion as other countries, they definitely er on that side of Christianity and it’s no surprise Hummel are more than happy to ignore the bigoted aspect of their strip designs.

On top of that, they know their market and all the hun fans will be throwing their money at anything to represent their religious hatred!



I am on that side of Christianity too, and think you are speaking nonsense. In fact, you have toppes Ferguson for bigotry this weekend. Something I didn't think would be possible.

[Monts]

Denmark, where Hummel originated from, is predominantly a Protestant country. While they are not as fanatical about religion as other countries, they definitely er on that side of Christianity and it’s no surprise Hummel are more than happy to ignore the bigoted aspect of their strip designs.

On top of that, they know their market and all the hun fans will be throwing their money at anything to represent their religious hatred!

Are you saying Hummel are bigots because they come from Denmark?? :confused:

[hibbydog]

Michael Stewart - great pundit.

Totally agree. Really refreshing that he has the intelligence and the balls to call these guys out for what they are.

[Cataplana]

Cat amongst the Pigeons - love it;)

The marketers would hold the party line tho and would likely claim it was homage to the Dutch in the same way they did for the English players with that saddo George’s cross...

The Beeb are terrible surprisingly Off the Ball got in on the act about a month ago. A former player had written a show which on the face of it appear to be able the relationships between the uglies fans and their clubs they got around the sectarian issues by saying they counted the jokes and that there was an equal number for each team - top bantz.

When the dinosaur that is Tam Cowan (who should know better after his suspension) brings out references to the 70s term for a double choc wafer (and justifies if like Billy Dodds did - different era) and doesn’t get pulled up you know there’s a theme or culture in the Beeb around this.

I actually think there is a changing of the guard at the Beeb just now, as old stagers who have traded on the same act for the last 25 years are cleared out. Jackie Bird has clearly been given the heave from the Hogmanay nonsense, I'm sure Only and Excuse will not reappear too.

With the arrival of new blood in the sports department, like Stewart and Thomson, it looks like an end for the likes of Fergie, Doddsy, and all the other ex OF players who know hee haw about the game.

The whole west coast, tongue in cheek bigotry is becoming a thing of the past.

[DMH0762]

I actually think there is a changing of the guard at the Beeb just now, as old stagers who have traded on the same act for the last 25 years are cleared out. Jackie Bird has clearly been given the heave from the Hogmanay nonsense, I'm sure Only and Excuse will not reappear too.

With the arrival of new blood in the sports department, like Stewart and Thomson, it looks like an end for the likes of Fergie, Doddsy, and all the other ex OF players who know hee haw about the game.

The whole west coast, tongue in cheek bigotry is becoming a thing of the past.

Beggars belief !!! So celebrating the death of a Catholic man by singing "Penny Arcade" is "tongue in cheek is it??? They and all connected with them are vile and know **** all about Christianity or tolerance.

Dream on you idiot if you believe the establishment will shift position.

[Jones28]

Michael Stewart fast becoming one of my favourite pundits

Everyone connected with The Rangers needs to be sent on a rehabilitation course

Starting to feel that Steven Gerrard is genuinely embarrassed by the behaviour of all of his clubs fans

You wonder if Gerrard new the half of it when he first came up here? Would he have had a clue about just how close these people’s knuckles were to floor?

[aljo7-0]

Denmark, where Hummel originated from, is predominantly a Protestant country. While they are not as fanatical about religion as other countries, they definitely er on that side of Christianity and it’s no surprise Hummel are more than happy to ignore the bigoted aspect of their strip designs.

On top of that, they know their market and all the hun fans will be throwing their money at anything to represent their religious hatred!
Catholicism is part of Christianity too! Or at least I always thought it was. Your post is wrong for a few reasons.

[Cataplana]

Beggars belief !!! So celebrating the death of a Catholic man by singing "Penny Arcade" is "tongue in cheek is it??? They and all connected with them are vile and know **** all about Christianity or tolerance.

Dream on you idiot if you believe the establishment will shift position.

Maybe you not calling people who disagree with you an idiot would be a step in the right direction?

As you may have picked up I am not happy with the behaviour of "the establishment" up until now.

Where we differ is that I see the free reign given to the likes of Michael Stewart as a sign of change.

I suspect I also differ in what we all "the establishment". To me it is bigots from both sides making jokes out of things like eating fish on a Friday, and playing flutes, keeping the Old Firms USP to the fore.

I suspect we also differ on what "tongue in cheek" means. To me it means kidding on it's all just a bit of a laugh, high spirited youths, nothing to see here, type of thing.

When, in reality, it's about lame people using religion as a crutch for their own failure in life, whilst approving any atrocity they can visit on the other side. People who are offended by the slightest perceived affront to their tribe.

Mind you, if you do have a link to Derek Ferguson singing Penny Arcade - I'd love to see it for a new comedy show I'm going to pitch to the Beeb.

[The Harp Awakes]

On the radio yesterday, Michael Stewart rightly pointed out that Rangers can hardly say they are tackling sectarianism when they are selling Orange strips. He was the subjected to a tirade of vitriol from Billy Dodds, and particularly Derek Ferguson, who claimed the strips were an homage to the Dutch players who did so well for them in the past.

Time and again, Michael asked Ferguson if he could not see the connotations between an Orange strip, and the songs that the Huns sing. At one point I thought it would be fisticuffs, and Richard Gordon had to move the subject on.

My point is this. If the BBC employ people to comment on football, they should have to demonstrate an awareness of the issues involved (Ferguson said he could not see the connotation, and hadn't considered it until Stewart spoke - the contradiction was very much in keeping with his performance on the day). There must be some sort of diversity training that pundits can go on, as all Ferguson and Dodds did was fly a partisan flag, instead of admitting there is a connection between Rangers, Sectarianism, and the Orange Order.

If they want to argue that the Orange strips have nothing to do with that, with a straight face, then that is their business. As it was, the BBC could probably find more impartial contributors in the Loudon Arms.

The BBC would still be employing Ian Durrant if he hadn't have been caught 'red handed' singing F the Pope.

These pundits are part of the problem and one reason why Rangers will never move on. Bigotry is why the club exists and the vast majority of their supporters revel in it. If Rangers were to play in a European league every week, the Club would be shut down within months. They only get away with it because they exist in Scotland.

[lucky]

Only way Dodds and Ferguson will learn is when the BBC remove them from the radio and give them diversity training. Dodds admission should be sacking offence, historical sectarian behaviour is still sectarian behaviour and there is no place for it in Scotland never mind on our radios

[LeithMike]

Listened to this before the match yesterday as well. Very difficult listen and Michael Stewart was very much the voice of reason but a lone voice at that with the others ganging up on him because "he was going into the detail". Really admire Michael for the way he spoke up which I am sure means he wont fit in with the others.

The Rangers statement was a step in the right direction but how come it has only come after a UEFA punishment? The club has had a long time to deal with it but never said a word until UEFA stepped in. It seems to me that the new board has been playing to the bassist element of the support in recent years with the orange strip another indication of that and are exploiting bigotry for commercial reasons.

Shame on the SFA, SPFL and Scottish Government for not doing what is necessary. The BBC also need to look at their choice of analysts. There are too many who defend the Rangers board. I quite like Derek Ferguson but his comments to Michael Stewart were pretty awful.

Saying all that, I think it's important that while the supporters of other clubs condemn the sectarian singing, it's important that we don't return the hate with hate or things will just spiral.

I'd put Michael Stewart in charge of the SFA.







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[Cataplana]

The BBC would still be employing Ian Durrant if he hadn't have been caught 'red handed' singing F the Pope.

These pundits are part of the problem and one reason why Rangers will never move on. Bigotry is the very reason the club exists and the vast majority of their supporters revel in it. If Rangers were to play in a European league every week, the Club would be shut down within months. They only get away with it because they exist in Scotland.

I think what is more positive is that they are employing Michael Stewart, and we should be supporting him in light of the aggressive, and personal nature of the attacks on him yesterday.

At one point, he was accused of pettiness by Ferguson, who also have the "it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it" argument.

Getting guys like him off the air will make a massive difference to football reporting. Who knows, we may get commentators actuall saying what songs are being muted when covering games.

[banarc7062]

Michael Stewart fast becoming one of my favourite pundits

Everyone connected with The Rangers needs to be sent on a rehabilitation course

Starting to feel that Steven Gerrard is genuinely embarrassed by the behaviour of all of his clubs fans

I personally feel, as mentioned, Gerrard is feeling uncomfortabe with the Ranger support behaviour and will be glad when a good offer comes from an English club

[Hiber-nation]

Ah but "the Dutch boys". It was staggering really.

[Cataplana]

Ah but "the Dutch boys". It was staggering really.

In fairness, a Dutch Boy is very much at the centre of this.

As an aside, did I hear Ferguson say that he is employed by the SFA to go and teach kids about bigotry? How can he not have seen the connection between orange strips, and William of Orange?

Maybe if they want to praise their Dutch stars they could go yhr whole hog and have Royal Delft inspired training tops, or a third strip in the style of Piet Mondrian. There is so much more to Holland than the house of Orange.

Hardly crazy, as their club statements sound like they were drawn up in an Amsterdam coffee shop, and their anti bigotry policy was written by a surrealist.

[Betty Boop]

You wonder if Gerrard new the half of it when he first came up here? Would he have had a clue about just how close these people’s knuckles were to floor?

Do you really think Gerrard has never heard any offensive songs while he was a player?

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

The SFA and the SFL must be loving this stooshie because it is taking the heat of them for doing the square root of SFA to deal with this. UEFA find this racisim offensive but our authorities don't? Not in my name, if you don't mind. No wonder there are no major companies champing at the bit to put their name to us.

[LeithMike]

Listened to this before the match yesterday as well. Very difficult listen and Michael Stewart was very much the voice of reason but a lone voice at that with the others ganging up on him because "he was going into the detail". Really admire Michael for the way he spoke up which I am sure means he wont fit in with the others.

The Rangers statement was a step in the right direction but how come it has only come after a UEFA punishment? The club has had a long time to deal with it but never said a word until UEFA stepped in. It seems to me that the new board has been playing to the bassist element of the support in recent years with the orange strip another indication of that and are exploiting bigotry for commercial reasons.

Shame on the SFA, SPFL and Scottish Government for not doing what is necessary. The BBC also need to look at their choice of analysts. There are too many who are inherently biased to the club they support. Good journalism requires objectivity.

Saying all that, I think it's important that while the supporters of other clubs condemn the tolerance of sectrarianism, it's important that we don't return the hate with hate or things will just spiral.

Finally, I'd put Michael Stewart in charge of the SFA or at least take him on as a consultant.







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[oldbutdim]

So celebrating the death of a Catholic man by singing "Penny Arcade" is "tongue in cheek is it?

Can someone explain this to me please?
I always wondered why Penny Arcade was so popular with them.
:confused:

[Crab apple]

Can someone explain this to me please?
I always wondered why Penny Arcade was so popular with them.
:confused:

Apparently something to do with a murder carried out by loyalist paramilitaries in an amusement arcade.

[Cataplana]

Can someone explain this to me please?
I always wondered why Penny Arcade was so popular with them.
:confused:

I think it is something to do with a sectarian hit on a man in an amusement arcade.

[Weegreenman]

That whole conversation was totally mental. 'These songs are offensive now' is the same as saying 'it's PC gone mad'. The songs are offensive now but they have always been offensive. It's the defence of the man who still talks about the 'nipping to the pakis for a pint of milk' despite everyone and their dog knowing that is a racial slur. It's not that the words have suddenly become offensive,, it's people now being brave enough to call it our for what it is.

Rangers (and Celtic) ultimately have little to gain by seriously tackling sectarianism. It's big business. Of course they will tick the boxes, broadcast the messages and so on but the orange strips, training tops etc will remain. It would also be interesting to know how many people either club has banned over the last decade, as an example time line, for such behaviour. At Ibrox recently a huge majority were singing the Billy Boys and Build My Gallows amongst others. Did the extensive Police presence, stewards, CCTV, SLOs and all the smart phones with cameras in the stadium not capture any of it?

Nipping to the Paki’s is not a racial slur in my view. Paki’s is a shortening of Pakistani, someone who originated from Pakistan. Racism is something much different from just shortening of a name as detailed below.

racism



prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

[oldbutdim]

Apparently something to do with a murder carried out by loyalist paramilitaries in an amusement arcade.

Ah. I'm glad there is a perfectly good reason for the club to play it.

:thumbsup:

[bawheid]

Nipping to the Paki’s is not a racial slur in my view. Paki’s is a shortening of Pakistani, someone who originated from Pakistan. Racism is something much different from just shortening of a name as detailed below.

racism



prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.






🤦🏼

[Cataplana]

Nipping to the Paki’s is not a racial slur in my view. Paki’s is a shortening of Pakistani, someone who originated from Pakistan. Racism is something much different from just shortening of a name as detailed below.

racism



prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.



So, when the Hindu postmaster at Goldenacre used to refer to the Paki next door, he was simply shortening the name Pakistani? That's interesting, because as far as I could see they hated each others' guts.

:hijack:

[Jones28]

Do you really think Gerrard has never heard any offensive songs while he was a player?

Don’t be so obtuse, pretty clear that I was pointing out he perhaps didn’t know the extent of the problem at rangers.

[Just Alf]

Nipping to the Paki’s is not a racial slur in my view. Paki’s is a shortening of Pakistani, someone who originated from Pakistan. Racism is something much different from just shortening of a name as detailed below.

racism



prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.




Surely you've just proved yourself wrong by that quote at the end?

As many of those "pakis" you mention were actually from places other than Pakistan, to lump them all under the one banner because they're different from us is a clear sign those saying it think they're superior as it doesn't matter where they others come from as they're all the same anyway.



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[Jim44]

On the radio yesterday, Michael Stewart rightly pointed out that Rangers can hardly say they are tackling sectarianism when they are selling Orange strips. He iwas the subjected to a tirade of vitriol from Billy Dodds, and particularly Derek Ferguson, who claimed the strips were an homage to the Dutch players who did so well for them in the past.

Time and again, Michael asked Ferguson if he could not see the connotations between an Orange strip, and the songs that the Huns sing. At one point I thought it would be fisticuffs, and Richard Gordon had to move the subject on.

My point is this. If the BBC employ people to comment on football, they should have to demonstrate an awareness of the issues involved (Ferguson said he could not see the connotation, and hadn't considered it until Stewart spoke - the contradiction was very much in keeping with his performance on the day). There must be some sort of diversity training that pundits can go on, as all Ferguson and Dodds did was fly a partisan flag, instead of admitting there is a connection between Rangers, Sectarianism, and the Orange Order.

If they want to argue that the Orange strips have nothing to do with that, with a straight face, then that is their business. As it was, the BBC could probably find more impartial contributors in the Loudon Arms.

Dodds and Ferguson are cynical and patronising muppets. When the introduction of their orange tops was made, there was a lengthy thread on FF and, IIRC, there was no references to the strip being a nod to their ‘Dutch footballing connections’. On the contrary the tone of the thread was relief and satisfaction that their club management had grown a pair and were being proudly and openly confrontational, flying the flag of Protestantism and hatred of Catholics.

[bringbackbenny]

As an aside, did I hear Ferguson say that he is employed by the SFA to go and teach kids about bigotry? How can he not have seen the connection between orange strips, and William of Orange?

Yes he does, represents Show Racism the Red Card at events, schools etc up and down the country (and no doubt does a lot of good work..).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42508266

Wonder if you substituted Sectarianism for Racism what the ex Old Firm player buy-in would be. The trouble is most will talk a good game. Sub in Catholic for Black in the BBC article above wonder if they would get the irony?

They will talk a good game about how 'back in their day' there was little issues and would meet Celtic players would meet up after the game with fair banter etc.

[WhileTheChief..]

I always liked Penny Arcade, decent wee tune. Also liked Simply The Best.

It no fair that I can’t listen to them anymore.

[Kato]

I always liked Penny Arcade, decent wee tune. Also liked Simply The Best.

It no fair that I can’t listen to them anymore.

Great angle.

[ekhibee]

I'm playing the devil's advocate here, because I listened to the conversation too when I was driving through to the Hibs game. Whilst I agree that Michael Stewart raised some valid and important points, I don't agree that the football authorities should be implementing rules which prevent certain clubs from wearing certain colours, to me that's ludicrous. Why people wear them is not my concern, and to me it's like trying to exploit the recent ruling UEFA made on Rangers. Should we not wear green to Ibrox because it winds up their fans? If you're going to implement something like that it has to be for all clubs, not just one, and they should all be dealt with the same way.

I loathe Rangers, but they have issued a statement that agrees and accepts the punishment. The real problem is the knuckledraggers who bring their kids up to hate Catholics and use football as a forum for that hate.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Didn't hear the 'debate' yesterday, but if its true that Ferguson claimed not to see the link between sectarianism and The Rangurz habit of releasing orange away kits he must be spectacularly stupid. Hells bells, it was practically the first piece of Ibrox hypocrisy every other fan in Scotland thought of when their board released that statement last week. How can you change a mindset you pander to at every turn to make money?

Thank **** for the likes of Michael Stewart … at least we have one guy on the inside willing to call a spade a spade.

[Pretty Boy]

I'm playing the devil's advocate here, because I listened to the conversation too when I was driving through to the Hibs game. Whilst I agree that Michael Stewart raised some valid and important points, I don't agree that the football authorities should be implementing rules which prevent certain clubs from wearing certain colours, to me that's ludicrous. Why people wear them is not my concern, and to me it's like trying to exploit the recent ruling UEFA made on Rangers. Should we not wear green to Ibrox because it winds up their fans? If you're going to implement something like that it has to be for all clubs, not just one, and they should all be dealt with the same way.

I loathe Rangers, but they have issued a statement that agrees and accepts the punishment. The real problem is the knuckledraggers who bring their kids up to hate Catholics and use football as a forum for that hate.

Did Stewart not argue that Rangers as a club should stop pandering to the bigots by releasing orange strips and leisure wear etc rather than saying there should be rules explicitly banning it?

[Cataplana]

Yes he does, represents Show Racism the Red Card at events, schools etc up and down the country (and no doubt does a lot of good work..).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42508266

Wonder if you substituted Sectarianism for Racism what the ex Old Firm player buy-in would be. The trouble is most will talk a good game. Sub in Catholic for Black in the BBC article above wonder if they would get the irony?

They will talk a good game about how 'back in their day' there was little issues and would meet Celtic players would meet up after the game with fair banter etc.

I actually think Derek Ferguson is an alright bloke. I very much doubt he is a card carrying Orangeman, just another of those who try to deny the connection between the Old Firm and sectarianism for what it is.

That is hardly a crime, but for the BBC to continue to employ people who are so out of their depth discussing the subject has to be wrong. I don't draw the line at the loyalist half either, the likes of Owen Coyle, are just as much to blame passing it all off as a bit of banter.

[tamig]

Ah but "the Dutch boys". It was staggering really.

I’m sure they used the Dutch boys excuse when they brought out an orange strip first time around. They actually had a few Dutch boys playing for them then though. I like Ferguson’s views on the lower league football but he isn’’t the brightest and made himself look even dafter yesterday.

[bringbackbenny]

I actually think Derek Ferguson is an alright bloke. I very much doubt he is a card carrying Orangeman, just another of those who try to deny the connection between the Old Firm and sectarianism for what it is.

That is hardly a crime, but for the BBC to continue to employ people who are so out of their depth discussing the subject has to be wrong. I don't draw the line at the loyalist half either, the likes of Owen Coyle, are just as much to blame passing it all off as a bit of banter.

I think that's correct, I've a close family member who's met him at an event and he came across very well, honest and engaging in trying to elicit change.

[Cataplana]

I'm playing the devil's advocate here, because I listened to the conversation too when I was driving through to the Hibs game. Whilst I agree that Michael Stewart raised some valid and important points, I don't agree that the football authorities should be implementing rules which prevent certain clubs from wearing certain colours, to me that's ludicrous. Why people wear them is not my concern, and to me it's like trying to exploit the recent ruling UEFA made on Rangers. Should we not wear green to Ibrox because it winds up their fans? If you're going to implement something like that it has to be for all clubs, not just one, and they should all be dealt with the same way.

I loathe Rangers, but they have issued a statement that agrees and accepts the punishment. The real problem is the knuckledraggers who bring their kids up to hate Catholics and use football as a forum for that hate.

I am pretty sure Dodds did raise the argument that other clubs wear orange strips. I say argument, it was more a cry for help. He spectacularly missed the point that those clubs do not have any association to the Orange Order.

The whole issue raised by Michael was that Rangers words don't match their actions. Another point that was raised was how many fans have actually been banned from Ibrox for sectarian behaviour.


Didn't hear the 'debate' yesterday, but if its true that Ferguson claimed not to see the link between sectarianism and The Rangurz habit of releasing orange away kits he must be spectacularly stupid. Hells bells, it was practically the first piece of Ibrox hypocrisy every other fan in Scotland thought of when their board released that statement last week. How can you change a mindset you pander to at every turn to make money?

Thank **** for the likes of Michael Stewart … at least we have one guy on the inside willing to call a spade a spade.

He went as far as to say that the entire away stand at Rugby Park was signing sectarian songs, yet nothing was done about it. Least of all by Kilmarnock who should have banned Rangers after their behaviour towards Steve Clarke the last time they were in Ayrshire.

For fans to pretend that their own club doesn't have a part to play is passing the buck. However, I think the cat is out of the bag now, and further European progress by The Rangers will most likely result in more severe sanctions - something King cannot afford.

[Cataplana]

I think that's correct, I've a close family member who's met him at an event and he came across very well, honest and engaging in trying to elicit change.

Truth is, I know a lot of West Coast guys who support Rangers, and just cannot see the way the world has changed.

[Moulin Yarns]

Listening to the game on the radio, the rangers scored and the fans give 'bouncy' a full on airing.

Now, because we know the context we would call it out, but would a match delegate?

[overdrive]

I actually think Derek Ferguson is an alright bloke. I very much doubt he is a card carrying Orangeman, just another of those who try to deny the connection between the Old Firm and sectarianism for what it is.

That is hardly a crime, but for the BBC to continue to employ people who are so out of their depth discussing the subject has to be wrong. I don't draw the line at the loyalist half either, the likes of Owen Coyle, are just as much to blame passing it all off as a bit of banter.

His sister in law is catholic, so he’d be pretty stupid if he did come out with any bigotry.

[Is It On....]

On the radio yesterday, Michael Stewart rightly pointed out that Rangers can hardly say they are tackling sectarianism when they are selling Orange strips. He was the subjected to a tirade of vitriol from Billy Dodds, and particularly Derek Ferguson, who claimed the strips were an homage to the Dutch players who did so well for them in the past.

Time and again, Michael asked Ferguson if he could not see the connotations between an Orange strip, and the songs that the Huns sing. At one point I thought it would be fisticuffs, and Richard Gordon had to move the subject on.

My point is this. If the BBC employ people to comment on football, they should have to demonstrate an awareness of the issues involved (Ferguson said he could not see the connotation, and hadn't considered it until Stewart spoke - the contradiction was very much in keeping with his performance on the day). There must be some sort of diversity training that pundits can go on, as all Ferguson and Dodds did was fly a partisan flag, instead of admitting there is a connection between Rangers, Sectarianism, and the Orange Order.

If they want to argue that the Orange strips have nothing to do with that, with a straight face, then that is their business. As it was, the BBC could probably find more impartial contributors in the Loudon Arms.

I wonder if Harthill also have an orange strip in homage to all the Dutch players that have played for them?

[Cataplana]

i wonder if harthill also have an orange strip in homage to all the dutch players that have played for them?

like

[660]

Is this available to listen to anywhere

[Cataplana]

Is this available to listen to anywhere

Doesn't seem to be anything on the iPlayer yet.

[monarch]

Nipping to the Paki’s is not a racial slur in my view. Paki’s is a shortening of Pakistani, someone who originated from Pakistan. Racism is something much different from just shortening of a name as detailed below.

racism



prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.


I’ll start with a disclaimer so I’ll state that I don’t know your ethnic background or colour (apart from being green) 😀.

However as a general point surely it’s not for middle class white persons to state what should and shouldn’t be offensive to brown skinned people. To indicate otherwise is surely to exhibit traits of white supremacy.

For what it’s worth I used to think along the same lines as yourself but found out that life is a great learning process.

Anyway, back on subject, I thought Mikey Stewart did a great demolition job on the two dinosaurs. Dodds asking Stewart to “prove it” was particularly cringeworthy from a supposed professional broadcaster.

[Fife-Hibee]

I'm just surprised these morons haven't be sponsored by Sunny Delight yet.

It's a blatant cash in to their majority bigot element. No sense of shame at all!

[Cataplana]

I’ll start with a disclaimer so I’ll state that I don’t know your ethnic background or colour (apart from being green) 😀.

However as a general point surely it’s not for middle class white persons to state what should and shouldn’t be offensive to brown skinned people. To indicate otherwise is surely to exhibit traits of white supremacy.

For what it’s worth I used to think along the same lines as yourself but found out that life is a great learning process.

Anyway, back on subject, I thought Mikey Stewart did a great demolition job on the two dinosaurs. Dodds asking Stewart to “prove it” was particularly cringeworthy from a supposed professional broadcaster.

Oh boy, that was cringeworthy. Did one of them also say "it just is, I don't care if you disagree?", or some similar bollocks?

[hibbyfraelibby]

Billy Dodds is effectively saying that his generation knew what the songs about so that made it OK in his day. Guys a clown, and it’s a sad state of affairs that guys like him and Ferguson are being paid to be pundits by the BBC. Surely there are more thoughtful and erudite commentators of Scottish football than those pair.

Time for a mass formal complaint through the BBC rebutal, sorry complaints, process before refering them to Ofcom for breaching the regulations

[Bishop Hibee]

If they wear an orange second strip in tribute to all their former Dutch players, surely they should wear a green away strip in tribute to all the players they’ve poached from Hibs?

[Crazyhorse]

Billy Dodds is effectively saying that his generation knew what the songs about so that made it OK in his day. Guys a clown, and it’s a sad state of affairs that guys like him and Ferguson are being paid to be pundits by the BBC. Surely there are more thoughtful and erudite commentators of Scottish football than those pair.

The logic of his position is that those singing sectarian songs don’t realise they are sectarian therefore they are less worthy of condemnation than his generation who knew that they were celebrating bigotry but carried on doing it.
The argument is moronic.
The reality is that both this generation and his generation know/knew very well that they are engaging in sectarianism.

[Crazyhorse]

The logic of his position is that those singing sectarian songs don’t realise they are sectarian therefore they are less worthy of condemnation than his generation who knew that they were celebrating bigotry but carried on doing it.
The argument is moronic.
The reality is that both this generation and his generation know/knew very well that they are engaging in sectarianism.


Sorry Carheenlea didn’t read your post. More or less the same point!

[mjhibby]

Billy Dodds is effectively saying that his generation knew what the songs about so that made it OK in his day. Guys a clown, and it’s a sad state of affairs that guys like him and Ferguson are being paid to be pundits by the BBC. Surely there are more thoughtful and erudite commentators of Scottish football than those pair.

It is just another sign showing the horrendous drop in quality on this show. There used to be decent,reasoned discussion about Scottish football but now things like sectarianism,racism etc are swept under the carpet and of course the dons,sevco or hertz can't be criticised. It's so bad I just can't listen to it. I feel sorry for Michael Stewart dealing with these clowns. Totally biased,horrendous broadcasting.

[A Hi-Bee]

It is just another sign showing the horrendous drop in quality on this show. There used to be decent,reasoned discussion about Scottish football but now things like sectarianism,racism etc are swept under the carpet and of course the dons,sevco or hertz can't be criticised. It's so bad I just can't listen to it. I feel sorry for Michael Stewart dealing with these clowns. Totally biased,horrendous broadcasting.

Nothing new at the glesgie beeb, really no defence for such views no matter how you spin it and lets not forget the other side of the divide they are just as bad.

[Iggy Pope]

Ah. I'm glad there is a perfectly good reason for the club to play it.

:thumbsup:

They’ve also started playing Sloop John B for pure entertainment and listening pleasure.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Is this available to listen to anywhere

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/scottish-football/id129625085?i=1000447706870

Here mate - embarrassing stuff.

[Iggy Pope]

I love Michael Stewart. I’d listen to ten of him before Billy Dodds.

[BILLYHIBS]

Listening to the game on the radio, the rangers scored and the fans give 'bouncy' a full on airing.

Now, because we know the context we would call it out, but would a match delegate?

Sorry!

How is Bouncy Bouncy sectarian?

Having a senior moment

[Iggy Pope]

Sorry!

How is Bouncy Bouncy sectarian?

Having a senior moment

The thread explains.....maybe it doesn’t. The song is thought to emanate from a sectarian killing where the victims head was repeatedly jumped upon.

[BILLYHIBS]

The thread explains.....maybe it doesn’t. The song is thought to emanate from a sectarian killing where the victims head was repeatedly jumped upon.

Just googled it Rangers fans claim they were doing it (1989) long before the sectarian killing(1997)and demanded a public apology from the late Gerry McNee

:dunno:

Not trying to be wide but genuinely did not know

[Iggy Pope]

Just googled it Rangers fans claim they were doing it (1989) long before the sectarian killing(1997)and demanded a public apology from the late Gerry McNee

:dunno:

Not trying to be wide but genuinely did not know

They’ll be telling the truth right enough . I was going to Hibs Rangers games before 1989 and since and never heard it. The fervour with which they sing it makes me agree with the blethering prick that was Gerry McNee. Did you hear it much in all your time watching HIBS back then?

[BILLYHIBS]

They’ll be telling the truth right enough . I was going to Hibs Rangers games before 1989 and since and never heard it. The fervour with which they sing it makes me agree with the blethering prick that was Gerry McNee. Did you hear it much in all your time watching HIBS back then?

Did not pay a lot of attention to the Hun **** tbh something about being up to their knees in fenian blood and “ We are the peepul!”

My first HIBS v Rangers game was a midweek game in 1968 and my hero Colin Stein ran oot wearing a Hun toap broke ma heart I developed a stammer and ma wee brother went cockeyed wi the stress o it aw

Thank god for Joe McBride SNR

What you say kinda makes sense though I remember they took great delight in doing the Bouncy Bouncy during the Manchester riots

[Carheenlea]

Just googled it Rangers fans claim they were doing it (1989) long before the sectarian killing(1997)and demanded a public apology from the late Gerry McNee

:dunno:

Not trying to be wide but genuinely did not know


They’ll be telling the truth right enough . I was going to Hibs Rangers games before 1989 and since and never heard it. The fervour with which they sing it makes me agree with the blethering prick that was Gerry McNee. Did you hear it much in all your time watching HIBS back then?

I’m sure Gerry McNee is still with us? Retired from broadcasting and journalism (thankfully)

[Iggy Pope]

I’m sure Gerry McNee is still with us? Retired from broadcasting and journalism (thankfully)

I’ve no idea.

[Sir David Gray]

I’m sure Gerry McNee is still with us? Retired from broadcasting and journalism (thankfully)

I believe he is too.

I didn't say anything since the other posts seemed so certain that he was deceased.

[Iggy Pope]

I believe he is too.

I didn't say anything since the other posts seemed so certain that he was deceased.

Only one post had him deceased mind you. It’s not about Gerry McNee this.

[BILLYHIBS]

I’m sure Gerry McNee is still with us? Retired from broadcasting and journalism (thankfully)

I profoundly apologise

I was getting him confused with the late great Ian Archer

Gerry if you are looking in.....Sorry!!

[Fife-Hibee]

Statement from the "Union Bears'.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EC1UVlzXYAAmDH2?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EC1UVlzXYAAmDH2?format=jpg&name=large

Absolute whack jobs. :lolrangers:

Are they honestly complaining that not all of their fans have been banned? :faf:

[Iggy Pope]

Sounds like the ‘club’ just got a whole lot less ‘quintessential’. No Surrender.

[California-Hibs]

Yep listened to the whole show as always (have to admit, I really enjoy SportSound, especially living away from home) I too found myself raging and shocked at what Derek Ferguson was coming out with. To blatantly lie about not seeing the connection with the orange strips until Michael Stewart (who is a great pundit btw!) Said it, was so infuriating. Well done to Stewart for hammering it home! Was disappointed when Richard Gordon broke it up

[Iggy Pope]

Yep listened to the whole show as always (have to admit, I really enjoy SportSound, especially living away from home) I too found myself raging and shocked at what Derek Ferguson was coming out with. To blatantly lie about not seeing the connection with the orange strips until Michael Stewart (who is a great pundit btw!) Said it, was so infuriating. Well done to Stewart for hammering it home! Was disappointed when Richard Gordon broke it up

“We a’ sung those songs when we were young”. Ach, it’s bollox.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Yep listened to the whole show as always (have to admit, I really enjoy SportSound, especially living away from home) I too found myself raging and shocked at what Derek Ferguson was coming out with. To blatantly lie about not seeing the connection with the orange strips until Michael Stewart (who is a great pundit btw!) Said it, was so infuriating. Well done to Stewart for hammering it home! Was disappointed when Richard Gordon broke it up

He had to break it up - Dodds was just about to say the same thing he’d said 3 or 4 times already.

[DMH0762]

Beggars belief !!! So celebrating the death of a Catholic man by singing "Penny Arcade" is "tongue in cheek is it??? They and all connected with them are vile and know **** all about Christianity or tolerance.

Dream on you idiot if you believe the establishment will shift position.

oldbutdim i referenced this already.... perhaps you should read the thread from the top !!!


Maybe you not calling people who disagree with you an idiot would be a step in the right direction?

As you may have picked up I am not happy with the behaviour of "the establishment" up until now.

Where we differ is that I see the free reign given to the likes of Michael Stewart as a sign of change.

I suspect I also differ in what we all "the establishment". To me it is bigots from both sides making jokes out of things like eating fish on a Friday, and playing flutes, keeping the Old Firms USP to the fore.

I suspect we also differ on what "tongue in cheek" means. To me it means kidding on it's all just a bit of a laugh, high spirited youths, nothing to see here, type of thing.

When, in reality, it's about lame people using religion as a crutch for their own failure in life, whilst approving any atrocity they can visit on the other side. People who are offended by the slightest perceived affront to their tribe.

Mind you, if you do have a link to Derek Ferguson singing Penny Arcade - I'd love to see it for a new comedy show I'm going to pitch to the Beeb.

Apologies for the idiot comment, you clearly are not.

Your ultimate interpretation of the "reality" of "tongue in cheek" is way off the mark. "Tongue in cheek" is indeed meant as a kid on, a laugh, a tease and not meant to be taken seriously.

The "lame people" you refer to are Bigoted, Socially dysfunctional specimens of humanity who glory in creating fear amongst any other group who do not conform to their model. Their affinity towards violence is a by product of their twisted idealism towards their "faith". It matters not that in actuality they know little or nothing about Christianity or indeed the monarchy that they blindly endorse.

Derek Ferguson singing Penny Arcade ? he's not the sharpest tool in the box but even he is not as dim as Jim White !!!


I think what is more positive is that they are employing Michael Stewart, and we should be supporting him in light of the aggressive, and personal nature of the attacks on him yesterday.

At one point, he was accused of pettiness by Ferguson, who also have the "it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it" argument.

Getting guys like him off the air will make a massive difference to football reporting. Who knows, we may get commentators actuall saying what songs are being muted when covering games.

Stewart is refreshingly honest and i feel wants to say more .

Interesting observation by the commentator (Ian McLeod?) on Sportscene. He mentioned that THIS team had not one the title since 2011, when we all know that THIS team have NEVER won the title. They did win the Petrofac cup i believe.
Just another example of the Beeb Scotland denial that Rangers ceased to exist in their original form and that THE Rangers are a totally new club. Also extremely lazy commentating as per the nor.
m


Can someone explain this to me please?
I always wondered why Penny Arcade was so popular with them.
:confused:

See above obd :aok:

[Hibernian Verse]

Imagine being an adult and signing off with "No Surrender". ****ing rockets.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

[BILLYHIBS]

Can someone explain this to me please?
I always wondered why Penny Arcade was so popular with them.
:confused:

Totally felt the same

I had no idea

Sad really

[BILLYHIBS]

Imagine being an adult and signing off with "No Surrender". ****ing rockets.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

More like a covert message from the UDA UVF or more like The Peoples Front of Judea

[Hibernian Verse]

More like a covert message from the UDA UVF or more like The Peoples Front of JudeaHonestly Billy, looking at all the incidents related to The Rangers this season already I'm starting to wonder how some people manage to get through their daily lives. A strange breed.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

[Stonewall]

oldbutdim i referenced this already.... perhaps you should read the thread from the top !!!



Apologies for the idiot comment, you clearly are not.

Your ultimate interpretation of the "reality" of "tongue in cheek" is way off the mark. "Tongue in cheek" is indeed meant as a kid on, a laugh, a tease and not meant to be taken seriously.

The "lame people" you refer to are Bigoted, Socially dysfunctional specimens of humanity who glory in creating fear amongst any other group who do not conform to their model. Their affinity towards violence is a by product of their twisted idealism towards their "faith". It matters not that in actuality they know little or nothing about Christianity or indeed the monarchy that they blindly endorse.

Derek Ferguson singing Penny Arcade ? he's not the sharpest tool in the box but even he is not as dim as Jim White !!!



Stewart is refreshingly honest and i feel wants to say more .

Interesting observation by the commentator (Ian McLeod?) on Sportscene. He mentioned that THIS team had not one the title since 2011, when we all know that THIS team have NEVER won the title. They did win the Petrofac cup i believe.
Just another example of the Beeb Scotland denial that Rangers ceased to exist in their original form and that THE Rangers are a totally new club. Also extremely lazy commentating as per the nor.
m



See above obd :aok:

It’s not lazy it’s the agreed bbc line I would bet.

[Biggie]

Not sure why anyone would be surprised by ferguson, and dodds comments. They are ball deep with the rangers philosophy. No danger would either of them do anything to damage their relationship with rangers or their fans. Too much to lose.
Naughty choice of guest for the topic by the beeb.

[FilipinoHibs]

I've copied my original post to them. Anyone who wants to use it can feel free.
Thanks will hit them with it. Was shocked by Ferguson and Dodds. The orange strip was cringeworthy. Well done to Michael Stewart. So good on many issues.

[FilipinoHibs]

Do you really think Gerrard has never heard any offensive songs while he was a player?

Not of a religious and sectarian nature.

[660]

Statement from the "Union Bears'.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EC1UVlzXYAAmDH2?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EC1UVlzXYAAmDH2?format=jpg&name=large

Absolute whack jobs. :lolrangers:

Are they honestly complaining that not all of their fans have been banned? :faf:

It started off coherent and then started making zero sense. Incredible stuff.

[FilipinoHibs]

I’ll start with a disclaimer so I’ll state that I don’t know your ethnic background or colour (apart from being green) 😀.

However as a general point surely it’s not for middle class white persons to state what should and shouldn’t be offensive to brown skinned people. To indicate otherwise is surely to exhibit traits of white supremacy.

For what it’s worth I used to think along the same lines as yourself but found out that life is a great learning process.

Anyway, back on subject, I thought Mikey Stewart did a great demolition job on the two dinosaurs. Dodds asking Stewart to “prove it” was particularly cringeworthy from a supposed professional broadcaster.
Paki is a racist slur - see look it up on Wiki. You are right that white people saying various slurs are not slurs because they so dies not make it racist particularly those being slurred say it is. White people have assimulatednany racist slurs into their everyday vocabulary without releasing the hurt and virgin of the terms. Recently I have issues with coconut and people implying Latinis are all drug dealers. I am of Latino South American Indian origin.

[The Modfather]

Paki is a racist slur - see look it up on Wiki. You are right that white people saying various slurs are not slurs because they so dies not make it racist particularly those being slurred say it is. White people have assimulatednany racist slurs into their everyday vocabulary without releasing the hurt and virgin of the terms. Recently I have issues with coconut and people implying Latinis are all drug dealers. I am of Latino South American Indian origin.

Is there a translated version of this post?

[Cataplana]

They’ve also started playing Sloop John B for pure entertainment and listening pleasure.

Wouldn't it be nice if we played it too?

[DMH0762]

Wouldn't it be nice if we played it too?

Some player was Sloop .

i been banging the drum for "Lust for Life" as our takin' the field song but nobody listens.

[1875godsgift]

Wouldn't it be nice if we played it too?

God only knows.

[DMH0762]

God only knows.

Gonna not be some "Good Vibrations" if this becomes a punfest

[Smartie]

Gonna not be some "Good Vibrations" if this becomes a punfest

Help Me Rhonda if it does.

[oldbutdim]

Help Me Rhonda if it does.

Wouldn't it be nice if you'd managed to get Ron's da in there somehow.

[Cataplana]

oldbutdim i referenced this already.... perhaps you should read the thread from the top !!!



Apologies for the idiot comment, you clearly are not.

Your ultimate interpretation of the "reality" of "tongue in cheek" is way off the mark. "Tongue in cheek" is indeed meant as a kid on, a laugh, a tease and not meant to be taken seriously.

The "lame people" you refer to are Bigoted, Socially dysfunctional specimens of humanity who glory in creating fear amongst any other group who do not conform to their model. Their affinity towards violence is a by product of their twisted idealism towards their "faith". It matters not that in actuality they know little or nothing about Christianity or indeed the monarchy that they blindly endorse.

Derek Ferguson singing Penny Arcade ? he's not the sharpest tool in the box but even he is not as dim as Jim White !!!



Stewart is refreshingly honest and i feel wants to say more .

Interesting observation by the commentator (Ian McLeod?) on Sportscene. He mentioned that THIS team had not one the title since 2011, when we all know that THIS team have NEVER won the title. They did win the Petrofac cup i believe.
Just another example of the Beeb Scotland denial that Rangers ceased to exist in their original form and that THE Rangers are a totally new club. Also extremely lazy commentating as per the nor.
m



See above obd :aok:

Thanks for the apology, much appreciated.

[LancsHibs]

The first step in dealing with this problem is to stop referring to ‘sectarianism’ as if it’s something similar to racism but not quite as bad. Let’s start calling it what it is racism is racism full stop.

[Cataplana]

It’s not lazy it’s the agreed bbc line I would bet.

I think at one time, it may well have been. The new generation of BBC pundits clearly hasn't had the memo though, or possibly their is a different memo now. It's important that we focus on the positive inroads that the likes of Stewart are making.

It's refreshing that he can get so close to the real issue, rather than the traditional nonsense about "society", or "minorities." On Saturday, he stopped just short of mentioning the Orange Order and Rangers in the same sentence, and nailed the minority of fans myth, by saying the entire stand at Rugby Park was singing party songs.

"You're focussing on the detail", bleated Dodds. It has been the lack of focus on the detail, that has allowed this nonsense to continue so long.


The first step in dealing with this problem is to stop referring to ‘sectarianism’ as if it’s something similar to racism but not quite as bad. Let’s start calling it what it is racism is racism full stop.

That is precisely what UEFA did, and if the statement from the Union Bears is a sign of the fans' response they are not finished with The Rangers.

[lapsedhibee]

The first step in dealing with this problem is to stop referring to ‘sectarianism’ as if it’s something similar to racism but not quite as bad. Let’s start calling it what it is racism is racism full stop.
Every bit as bad, but how is it racism? :dunno:

[LancsHibs]

Every bit as bad, but how is it racism? :dunno:

In the same way that bigotry and persecution towards any religious grouping is. If their songs and chants were directed against and celebrated the death of Jews, Muslims, Hindus etc it would not have been tolerated and called out as racism decades go

[Cataplana]

In the same way that bigotry and persecution towards any religious grouping is. If their songs and chants were directed against and celebrated the death of Jews, Muslims, Hindus etc it would not have been tolerated and called out as racism decades go

With respect, those are religions, not races. Insulting Catholics, or Protestants is sectarian. Insulting the Irish, or the British is racist.

[lapsedhibee]

In the same way that bigotry and persecution towards any religious grouping is. If their songs and chants were directed against and celebrated the death of Jews, Muslims, Hindus etc it would not have been tolerated and called out as racism decades go

It wouldn't have been called out as racism decades ago because decades ago racism was a narrower term. If being racist now means persecuting people because of their beliefs, then it must have been racist to persecute witches, yes? (Don't mind the broadening of definitions, so long as the language stays consistent. :agree:)

[Rumble de Thump]

With respect, those are religions, not races. Insulting Catholics, or Protestants is sectarian. Insulting the Irish, or the British is racist.

Race: a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics.

[lapsedhibee]

Race: a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics.

So Hibs fans, then. :rolleyes:

[Cataplana]

Race: a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics.

Interesting, because I would say you can choose your religion, but not your race. You can choose your nationality, but not your birthplace.

At the end of the day, the matter of orange strips is what is important here, and we shouldn't lose sight of that in our keeness to categorise what category of offensive behaviour it falls into.

[LancsHibs]

I’m sure racism covers religious beliefs and national identity. If it doesn’t it should so my point remains let’s call it ‘racism’ and drop ‘sectarianism’, people might take more notice.

[lapsedhibee]

I’m sure racism covers religious beliefs and national identity. If it doesn’t it should so my point remains let’s call it ‘racism’ and drop ‘sectarianism’, people might take more notice.

I fear things will only deteriorate in Norniron if half the people there think of themselves as belonging to one race and the other half to a different race.

In other words, what you suggest might have an unintended consequence.

[Cataplana]

I’m sure racism covers religious beliefs and national identity. If it doesn’t it should so my point remains let’s call it ‘racism’ and drop ‘sectarianism’, people might take more notice.

That's what UEFA did, but as you can see, people get into all sorts of silly discussion when the word racism is brought up. Whatever it is called, the SFA has to acknowledge that a member club is being repeatedly sanctioned by UEFA, or our whole game comes into disrepute.

[Lendo]

Nipping to the Paki’s is not a racial slur in my view. Paki’s is a shortening of Pakistani, someone who originated from Pakistan. Racism is something much different from just shortening of a name as detailed below.

racism



prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.



holy ****... Have I woken up in 1970?

[Sweet Left Peg]

Michael Stewart fast becoming one of my favourite pundits

Everyone connected with The Rangers needs to be sent on a rehabilitation course

Starting to feel that Steven Gerrard is genuinely embarrassed by the behaviour of all of his clubs fans

Yep, agree with you about Michael Stewart. He calls things as they are and not how he thinks they should be. His analysis during the Hibs game seemed spot on, calling out the decision the play Allan wide right, identifying that St Johnstone would get something back when we were in the lead both times, suggesting that we don't know our best formation.

I didn't listen to the argument with Ferguson and Dodds but it doesn't surprise me one bit. Blinkered, pre-Historic backward thinking idiots who seem to be members of this media clique that the BBC, in their infinite wisdom, employ to appeal in some way to the OF. Bringing out an orange away strip when they had a large contingent of Dutch players and Manager was a very convenient way of tapping into the £Loyal and profiting from their sectarian rivalry that has blighted our game for years. Any suggestion that subsequent issues of orange strips are in someway a nod to the part played by Advocaat, van Bronckhorst, Mols etc to a very successful period in their history is laughable, blatantly untrue and a complete insult to the tax paying public who funded those very same players who Rangers otherwise would not have been able to afford.

[Cataplana]

Yep, agree with you about Michael Stewart. He calls things as they are and not how he thinks they should be. His analysis during the Hibs game seemed spot on, calling out the decision the play Allan wide right, identifying that St Johnstone would get something back when we were in the lead both times, suggesting that we don't know our best formation.

I didn't listen to the argument with Ferguson and Dodds but it doesn't surprise me one bit. Blinkered, pre-Historic backward thinking idiots who seem to be members of this media clique that the BBC, in their infinite wisdom, employ to appeal in some way to the OF. Bringing out an orange away strip when they had a large contingent of Dutch players and Manager was a very convenient way of tapping into the £Loyal and profiting from their sectarian rivalry that has blighted our game for years. Any suggestion that subsequent issues of orange strips are in someway a nod to the part played by Advocaat, van Bronckhorst, Mols etc to a very successful period in their history is laughable, blatantly untrue and a complete insult to the tax paying public who funded those very same players who Rangers otherwise would not have been able to afford.

:agree: Too many riding that gravy train.

[ancient hibee]

That's what UEFA did, but as you can see, people get into all sorts of silly discussion when the word racism is brought up. Whatever it is called, the SFA has to acknowledge that a member club is being repeatedly sanctioned by UEFA, or our whole game comes into disrepute.

Two member clubs surely.

[Hibernia&Alba]

This thread is mental:

Hummel, being Danish, might not have a problem with protestant bigotry.

Paki isn't racist.


WTF? I thought I'd been re-directed to Follow Follow.

[Greencore]

This thread is mental:

Hummel, being Danish, might not have a problem with protestant bigotry.

Paki isn't racist.


WTF? I thought I'd been re-directed to Follow Follow.

Is the word pole for polish or Scot for Scottish racist these days? No disagreeing with you, just wanna know people's opinions on the matter 😊

[Cataplana]

Two member clubs surely.

Has the other arse cheek been sanctioned too? (Genuine question.)

[ancient hibee]

Has the other arse cheek been sanctioned too? (Genuine question.)

Frequently.Fined and part of Celtic Park closed.We have also been sanctioned of course.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

I think it is something to do with a sectarian hit on a man in an amusement arcade.

And yet the sfa played it over the pa system prior to the 2016 final

[Paisley Hibby]

Nipping to the Paki’s is not a racial slur in my view. Paki’s is a shortening of Pakistani, someone who originated from Pakistan. Racism is something much different from just shortening of a name as detailed below.

racism



prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.






Wow. Do you really believe that? Most often you'll find the shop is run by someone who was born in Scotland - so is it their brown skin you're really on about? And if you mean ethinic origin then they could be from Bangladesh or India just as easily as Pakistan?

[Cataplana]

Frequently.Fined and part of Celtic Park closed.We have also been sanctioned of course.

My big worry with the strict liability (?) thing is that other clubs will get away with nothing.

The big two are forever insisting they aren't the only ones with a problem.

[Cataplana]

And yet the sfa played it over the pa system prior to the 2016 final

Yes, but the SFA believe the orange strips are a tribute to Van Bronckhurst and company.

My question is though. Is it still ok to play other Roy Orbison songs?

[Carheenlea]

And yet the sfa played it over the pa system prior to the 2016 final

It’s been debated before about the origins behind it becoming a Rangers supporters staple, but let’s be honest here - it’s not just been plucked from the air because it’s a catchy 60’s pop song.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Yes, but the SFA believe the orange strips are a tribute to Van Bronckhurst and company.

My question is though. Is it still ok to play other Roy Orbison songs?

Pretty Woman - no, it objectifies females

I drove all night - no, it supports breaking and entering

Crying - yes, but it reminds them of the 2016 final

The stuff with the Travelling Wilburys is fine though

Hope that helps

[Cataplana]

Pretty Woman - no, it objectifies females

I drove all night - no, it supports breaking and entering

Crying - yes, but it reminds them of the 2016 final

The stuff with the Travelling Wilburys is fine though

Hope that helps

Blue Bayou, Blue Angel, there's a pattern emerging here.

[lapsedhibee]

Blue Bayou, Blue Angel, there's a pattern emerging here.

He had a song in Blue Velvet too.

[vuefrom1875]

No surprise hear, Billy Dodds& Barry Ferguson ,very limited intellect, especially on the English language .....couple of bigoted huns so I wouldn't expect anything else from this pair fannies 😎

[mjhibby]

Trying to explain to non Scots about the sectarianism which is still mainstream is utterly embarrassing. The fact we are even having to talk about it obscene far less folk still living it. It's like a country stuck in a time warp but if the bigot bros weren't the two dominant teams they would have be dealt with decades ago. But as has been said so many benefit from this disgusting behaviour that nobody will bite the hands that feed.
Ashamed to be Scottish when folk outside this country ask about it. Sportsound should be taken off the air in any decent society but for figures like Ferguson and Dodds to talk it was ok in the day and folk are over sensitive beggars belief. Words cant described how much I loath that programme.

[Is It On....]

Not sure why anyone would be surprised by ferguson, and dodds comments. They are ball deep with the rangers philosophy. No danger would either of them do anything to damage their relationship with rangers or their fans. Too much to lose.
Naughty choice of guest for the topic by the beeb.

Imagine if they had admitted to signing NF / BM stuff in the 80s? They wouldn't be in a job, far less being employed by the nation's public service broadcaster. The fact they are able to tell listeners there tales of past "glories" and still be in a job says as much about the BBCs attitude to sectarianism as it does about them.

[Crazyhorse]

Pretty Woman - no, it objectifies females

I drove all night - no, it supports breaking and entering

Crying - yes, but it reminds them of the 2016 final

The stuff with the Travelling Wilburys is fine though

Hope that helps

Well from memory there were some questionable role models there...

‘Tweeter and the monkey man were hard up for cash
They stayed up all night selling cocaine and hash’

Although I’m sure sure we can blame Mr B Dylan for that couplet.

[Radium]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190826/1f25a8499110df8388c710456717bbd0.jpg

The branding for TRFC tv is just misinterpreted [emoji521]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DMH0762]

I think at one time, it may well have been. The new generation of BBC pundits clearly hasn't had the memo though, or possibly their is a different memo now. It's important that we focus on the positive inroads that the likes of Stewart are making.

It's refreshing that he can get so close to the real issue, rather than the traditional nonsense about "society", or "minorities." On Saturday, he stopped just short of mentioning the Orange Order and Rangers in the same sentence, and nailed the minority of fans myth, by saying the entire stand at Rugby Park was singing party songs.

"You're focussing on the detail", bleated Dodds. It has been the lack of focus on the detail, that has allowed this nonsense to continue so long.

What an imbecile. What else are "pundits" employed for if not to concentrate on "detail". ****s like him and Ferguson should not be given air time. There are none so blind as them that can see. Stewart can be objective as he has no history with the bigot brothers ..
Beebs "jobs for the boys" policy needs stopped.





And yet the sfa played it over the pa system prior to the 2016 final


Yes, but the SFA believe the orange strips are a tribute to Van Bronckhurst and company.

My question is though. Is it still ok to play other Roy Orbison songs?


It’s been debated before about the origins behind it becoming a Rangers supporters staple, but let’s be honest here - it’s not just been plucked from the air because it’s a catchy 60’s pop song.

If that was played prior to the cup final(i was unable to attend due to hospitalisation) then it simply confirms the SFA's odious pandering to the masses and marks them as weak and unfit for purpose.

The song was adopted by the UDA as a celebration of the death, in an amusement arcade, of a "mark" who just happened to be , allegedly an IRA sympathiser. The Hun support picked up on the song from their allegiance to all things UDA.

If i and others are aware of this then surely the SFA were also aware. Does nobody in that organisation every query the motives of the Hun or the reasoning behind their actions


No surprise hear, Billy Dodds& Barry Ferguson ,very limited intellect, especially on the English language .....couple of bigoted huns so I wouldn't expect anything else from this pair fannies ��

Yet the beeb Scotland allow them to air their defence of the set in stone bigotry that putrifies within Ipox with impunity. Richard Gordon is a **** also and a weak one at that.

[mjhibby]

Imagine if they had admitted to signing NF / BM stuff in the 80s? They wouldn't be in a job, far less being employed by the nation's public service broadcaster. The fact they are able to tell listeners there tales of past "glories" and still be in a job says as much about the BBCs attitude to sectarianism as it does about them.

It certainly does. It's like an old boys club where they think it's naughty to come out with the crap they do knowing no one is going to pull them up on it. Shameful.

[Danderhall Hibs]

No surprise hear, Billy Dodds& Barry Ferguson ,very limited intellect, especially on the English language .....couple of bigoted huns so I wouldn't expect anything else from this pair fannies 😎

I’m not make a habit of defending Barry Ferguson but it wasn’t him. It was his brother who denied the orange strip was anything other than a tribute to the Dutch players that played for them 15 years ago.

I’m pretty sure Barry’s married to a catholic so maybe he’s not a bigot?

[Cataplana]

I’m not make a habit of defending Barry Ferguson but it wasn’t him. It was his brother who denied the orange strip was anything other than a tribute to the Dutch players that played for them 15 years ago.

I’m pretty sure Barry’s married to a catholic so maybe he’s not a bigot?

I don't think Derek is either, just a passionate supporter of his team that doesn't really understand why people are so upset by the subject.

He probably doesn't think about King Billy much at all. What he needs is a bit of help to make understand the real issues, and the BBC should be doing that.

Danny Baker got the sack for tweeting a picture that was deemed offensive. He admitted his mistake, and it's time that BBC Scotland followed suit.

It's endemic in tg West. I had a Lanarkshire employer once, the one thing their diversity course didn't mention was sectarianism.

That was in a public fundeld organisation. What hope is there when government owned organisations can't act on bigotry?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Does the freedom of information requests extend to the BBC ?
Min any case since it is wholly publicly funded it should be possible to ask what % of staff have received diversity training (and maybe even ask on what it covers and how long).

[Cataplana]

Does the freedom of information requests extend to the BBC ?
Min any case since it is wholly publicly funded it should be possible to ask what % of staff have received diversity training (and maybe even ask on what it covers and how long).

You could include that question in a complaint.

[Scouse Hibee]

Do you really think Gerrard has never heard any offensive songs while he was a player?

This is a lot deeper than offensive songs!

[AltheHibby]

Good to see the Scotland manager speak out about sectarianism on BBC Breakfast this morning.

Well done Steve Clarke.

[Dmas]

I don't think Derek is either, just a passionate supporter of his team that doesn't really understand why people are so upset by the subject.

He probably doesn't think about King Billy much at all. What he needs is a bit of help to make understand the real issues, and the BBC should be doing that.

Danny Baker got the sack for tweeting a picture that was deemed offensive. He admitted his mistake, and it's time that BBC Scotland followed suit.

It's endemic in tg West. I had a Lanarkshire employer once, the one thing their diversity course didn't mention was sectarianism.

That was in a public fundeld organisation. What hope is there when government owned organisations can't act on bigotry?

I live in South Lanakshire and work in Glasgow, I never realised just how bad a problem it was until I moved here it's everywhere the usual bigoted words from both sides thrown around like a beach ball at a festival it's almost as if they are all desensitised to what there saying to each other, it's mental and more importantly it's being passed on to their children and the cycle continues as no one is doing anything to combat it.

[bigwheel]

I live in South Lanakshire and work in Glasgow, I never realised just how bad a problem it was until I moved here it's everywhere the usual bigoted words from both sides thrown around like a beach ball at a festival it's almost as if they are all desensitised to what there saying to each other, it's mental and more importantly it's being passed on to their children and the cycle continues as no one is doing anything to combat it.

Is it really that bad there ? Wow

I can’t say I’ve ever noticed anti Protestant comments..I’ve heard anti catholic ones...and certainly Pro republican stances. But not anti Protestant

[Dmas]

Is it really that bad there ? Wow

I can’t say I’ve ever noticed anti Protestant comments..I’ve heard anti catholic ones...and certainly Pro republican stances. But not anti Protestant

It’s maybe just my work place but it’s pretty bad.

A recent example of it at home, my mother in law works in one of 2 schools in the area one is catholic the other not, we have a festival for a week in September mostly for kids really, my 2 are coming of age to be able to take notice of it so we where going to participate a little in it, we asked her to join in as well as the kids spend a decent amount of time at her house through the week her reply was

“no I’m not doing that that’s a Protestant thing”

I quizzed her on it as there’s no reason to have thought that at all and her only defence was that the other School are big on it and not hers! Mental makes you wonder if the children in that school are being taught to not take part in it because of the other schools participation

[green day]

It’s maybe just my work place but it’s pretty bad.

A recent example of it at home, my mother in law works in one of 2 schools in the area one is catholic the other not, we have a festival for a week in September mostly for kids really, my 2 are coming of age to be able to take notice of it so we where going to participate a little in it, we asked her to join in as well as the kids spend a decent amount of time at her house through the week her reply was

“no I’m not doing that that’s a Protestant thing”

I quizzed her on it as there’s no reason to have thought that at all and her only defence was that the other School are big on it and not hers! Mental makes you wonder if the children in that school are being taught to not take part in it because of the other schools participation

That story echoes Steve Clarke's chat that his kids knew nothing of sectarianism when in London..........then he moved back to the west of Scotland.

If you have seemingly nice people like your mother in law having those unconscious attitudes, then there is little hope.

It might not be a popular view on here, but separate schools based on religion cements this nonsense on both sides.

[Hibernian Verse]

So...who watched Peaky Blinders last night?

Group marches in singing the Billy Boys and kills a "fenian" on a cross and twitter explodes with Rangers fans glorifying it. Bet Dodds enjoyed it!

My point is, though, who is watching that thinking "I can't wait to sing that at Ibrox on Sunday"? How do we get through to these people?

[JeMeSouviens]

I’m not make a habit of defending Barry Ferguson but it wasn’t him. It was his brother who denied the orange strip was anything other than a tribute to the Dutch players that played for them 15 years ago.

I’m pretty sure Barry’s married to a catholic so maybe he’s not a bigot?

So is Derek.

That podcast is absolutely cringeworthy.

[Peevemor]

Admins, any chance the thread title could be corrected please - ie. "neanderthals".

[Cataplana]

Admins, any chance the thread title could be corrected please - ie. "neanderthals".

I concur, it's been bugging me for days.

[BILLYHIBS]

Stevie Clarke still looks emotional recalling the sectarian abuse he received from the Hun while Manager of Kilmarnock ( Reporting Scotland)

He thought Scotland had moved on.....NOT!

Time it did!

[Dmas]

That story echoes Steve Clarke's chat that his kids knew nothing of sectarianism when in London..........then he moved back to the west of Scotland.

If you have seemingly nice people like your mother in law having those unconscious attitudes, then there is little hope.

It might not be a popular view on here, but separate schools based on religion cements this nonsense on both sides.

Totally agree I think the schooling system needs to be involved in the fight against it from the very start, I was in catholic schools for primary and secondary I see no benefit to it other than a divide from early ages.

My brother in law was recently accepted to a teaching position in a catholic secondary school in Edinburgh and was told that although his whole application process was very impressive he will need to improve his attitudes towards Catholicism during his probation period, also something that makes you think if schools are turning away good teachers on the basis of their beliefs in certain faiths which (should) hold no barring on a child’s future

[Dmas]

So...who watched Peaky Blinders last night?

Group marches in singing the Billy Boys and kills a "fenian" on a cross and twitter explodes with Rangers fans glorifying it. Bet Dodds enjoyed it!

My point is, though, who is watching that thinking "I can't wait to sing that at Ibrox on Sunday"? How do we get through to these people?

Big fan of the show (not watched yet though) but you knew as soon as this seasons plot was announced that we’d have a problem up here because of it

[Cataplana]

Totally agree I think the schooling system needs to be involved in the fight against it from the very start, I was in catholic schools for primary and secondary I see no benefit to it other than a divide from early ages.

My brother in law was recently accepted to a teaching position in a catholic secondary school in Edinburgh and was told that although his whole application process was very impressive he will need to improve his attitudes towards Catholicism during his probation period, also something that makes you think if schools are turning away good teachers on the basis of their beliefs in certain faiths which (should) hold no barring on a child’s future

I have heard of people being refused promotion because they weren't "Catholic enough." That tells you what chance a Protestant has of being a head teacher in such a school.

What I have never understood is, if the faith is so pure, what does it fear from its followers being exposed to other faiths?

[AltheHibby]

I have heard of people being refused promotion because they weren't "Catholic enough." That tells you what chance a Protestant has of being a head teacher in such a school.

What I have never understood is, if the faith is so pure, what does it fear from its followers being exposed to other faiths?

My wife taught RE at a Catholic secondary right up to the point where they asked who her priest was. The penguins had her taken out of RE classes there and then.

The worst of it is, it was all the same curriculum and exams regardless of what faith they did or didn't have..

Faith schools of all kinds (private schools included) need ending.

[DMH0762]

This is a lot deeper than offensive songs!

You Scouse will know more than i, but were Liverpool and Everton not able to get over the protestant/catholic divide. They have a healthy rivalry based more on bragging and territorial rights. I.E. Stanley Park


I live in South Lanakshire and work in Glasgow, I never realised just how bad a problem it was until I moved here it's everywhere the usual bigoted words from both sides thrown around like a beach ball at a festival it's almost as if they are all desensitised to what there saying to each other, it's mental and more importantly it's being passed on to their children and the cycle continues as no one is doing anything to combat it.

IMHO parents and not teachers are the cause. You are bang on in that they are desensitised and think of hate towards other groups as the norm.
I know it is a movie but American History X sends a very strong message out re' how a simple conversation, over dinner. with ones parents can totally make you revise your conception of other "groups" and perception of the "imagined "threat they oppose to you and yours

[hibbyfraelibby]

This thread is mental:


Paki isn't racist.


WTF? I thought I'd been re-directed to Follow Follow.

Do you actually know the origin of the term PAKIstan?

It arose out of the secterian decision to break up British India when they were looking for a name for the new "nation". It stands for Punjabi And Kashmiri India

[The 90+2]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190826/1f25a8499110df8388c710456717bbd0.jpg

The branding for TRFC tv is just misinterpreted [emoji521]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Am I missing something here?

[BILLYHIBS]

am i missing something here?

orangers!

[Peevemor]

Am I missing something here?

I looked for a wee while and found nothing either.

[superfurryhibby]

Admins, any chance the thread title could be corrected please - ie. "neanderthals".

Indeed, it’s a bit strange it’s been left as it is. Quite funny though.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Do you actually know the origin of the term PAKIstan?

It arose out of the secterian decision to break up British India when they were looking for a name for the new "nation". It stands for Punjabi And Kashmiri India

And how is that relevant to a pejorative term of abuse applied to all immigrants from the Indian sub-continent? Let's ask someone of Pakistani descent (or Indian and Bangladeshi, who are also called that name) whether they think it's racist to be called a Paki….. Of course it's a racist slur, never used as a term of endearment but always a term of abuse.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

So...who watched Peaky Blinders last night?

Group marches in singing the Billy Boys and kills a "fenian" on a cross and twitter explodes with Rangers fans glorifying it. Bet Dodds enjoyed it!

My point is, though, who is watching that thinking "I can't wait to sing that at Ibrox on Sunday"? How do we get through to these people?

I did. Wonder why the Beeb put out a warner for material that may offend and be upsetting when the content is fiction based on fact, but the Beeb up here don't think that they need to do the same thing when racists are singing it for real.

[beensaidbefore]

I’m not make a habit of defending Barry Ferguson but it wasn’t him. It was his brother who denied the orange strip was anything other than a tribute to the Dutch players that played for them 15 years ago.

I’m pretty sure Barry’s married to a catholic so maybe he’s not a bigot?

Not a fan either, but fair's fair, BF, is quoted in the paper condemning it saying he can't believe its still going on 15 years orso down the line.

Could be talking pish, but certainly won't do him any favours wihh the hoardes, so can't see this being for the sake of it.

[beensaidbefore]

Is it really that bad there ? Wow

I can’t say I’ve ever noticed anti Protestant comments..I’ve heard anti catholic ones...and certainly Pro republican stances. But not anti Protestant

Not trying to pick a fight here, but could that be unconscious bias here? Ime you hear the terms that are offensive to you, but other symtuff passes without registering, or striking the same chords?

[beensaidbefore]

I did. Wonder why the Beeb put out a warner for material that may offend and be upsetting when the content is fiction based on fact, but the Beeb up here don't think that they need to do the same thing when racists are singing it for real.

I'd be interested to see how they got out of that one. Sure the old firm on tv should come with a government health warning!

[ancient hibee]

My wife taught RE at a Catholic secondary right up to the point where they asked who her priest was. The penguins had her taken out of RE classes there and then.

The worst of it is, it was all the same curriculum and exams regardless of what faith they did or didn't have..

Faith schools of all kinds (private schools included) need ending.


Penguins? Interesting word on a thread about sectarianism.

[Cataplana]

Penguins? Interesting word on a thread about sectarianism.

He's on Rocky ground with that one.

[AltheHibby]

Penguins? Interesting word on a thread about sectarianism.

It's what the kids called the nuns. As all involved were Catholic it was not intended as sectarian.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Penguins? Interesting word on a thread about sectarianism.

Never seen Blues Brothers?

[mjhibby]

I live in South Lanakshire and work in Glasgow, I never realised just how bad a problem it was until I moved here it's everywhere the usual bigoted words from both sides thrown around like a beach ball at a festival it's almost as if they are all desensitised to what there saying to each other, it's mental and more importantly it's being passed on to their children and the cycle continues as no one is doing anything to combat it.

Tribalism at its worst. Sport should take the place of tribalism and be a release but instead it's become a vocal point for containing bigotry disguised as supporting your team. So depressing that in 2019 this is the situation. We are meant to be the intelligent beings. Sometimes I wonder if that's entirely true.

[mjhibby]

That story echoes Steve Clarke's chat that his kids knew nothing of sectarianism when in London..........then he moved back to the west of Scotland.

If you have seemingly nice people like your mother in law having those unconscious attitudes, then there is little hope.

It might not be a popular view on here, but separate schools based on religion cements this nonsense on both sides.

Nothing to do with the schools. No reason why there can't be separate schools. It's people who continue with this nonsense not the school. My mate got far more re at his non Catholic school than the Catholic ones I attended. To my eyes bigotry of all kind is getting worse and we are losing all the ground gained in the last few decades trump and Johnson are only making matters worse.

[green day]

Nothing to do with the schools. No reason why there can't be separate schools. It's people who continue with this nonsense not the school. My mate got far more re at his non Catholic school than the Catholic ones I attended. To my eyes bigotry of all kind is getting worse and we are losing all the ground gained in the last few decades trump and Johnson are only making matters worse.

That's fine, it's your opinion.

For me, separating children based on the fact they are Catholic gives the foaming at the mouth orange types a ready made excuse to point the finger at Catholics and the Catholic church.

It doesn't bother me tbh, but I really don't see any need for it, particularly when the vast majority of kids at these schools have no real interest in religion.

[Eyrie]

That's fine, it's your opinion.

For me, separating children based on the fact they are Catholic gives the foaming at the mouth orange types a ready made excuse to point the finger at Catholics and the Catholic church.

It doesn't bother me tbh, but I really don't see any need for it, particularly when the vast majority of kids at these schools have no real interest in religion.

I'd agree, and point out that we don't have state funded schools for Muslims, Jews, Hindus or any other religious group.

Schools should be secular and teach pupils about all faiths in a neutral manner. Let the kids make their own minds up.

[ian cruise]

Never seen Blues Brothers?

Last week it was Peep Show, now people are being whooshed by Blues Brothers references, what has become of this forum? I blame Heckingbottom, and Petrie, and the admins (obviously).

Petrie out!
Heckingbottom out!
Admins out!

[One Day Soon]

That's fine, it's your opinion.

For me, separating children based on the fact they are Catholic gives the foaming at the mouth orange types a ready made excuse to point the finger at Catholics and the Catholic church.

It doesn't bother me tbh, but I really don't see any need for it, particularly when the vast majority of kids at these schools have no real interest in religion.


Bigots focus on the religion and its followers wherever they can: individuals, churches, priests, schools and anything else they feel can be identified with Catholicism. The notion that Catholic schools should be abolished to remove a target for bigots is completely wrong. In what other context do we blame the victim for the actions of the criminal?

There may be arguments for an end to denominational schooling (though I don't agree with them), but removing a target for bigots isn't one of them.

[givescotlandfreedom]

Stevie Clarke still looks emotional recalling the sectarian abuse he received from the Hun while Manager of Kilmarnock ( Reporting Scotland)

He thought Scotland had moved on.....NOT!

Time it did!
I went to a big non-dom school in Edinburgh but a few of us were sent to an RC school for one subject mine wasn't doing. The other kids were brand new and just the same as at my own school but a couple of the teachers were a bit unpleasant eg making comments about other pupils being 'good Catholic boys/girls' if one of us did something wrong. Wasn't overly bothered but it was a bit weird and it's stuck with me 18 years later.

[Victor]

Just to make it clear, there are no Protestant schools. Roman Catholic (all Christians are part of the ‘Catholic’ Church) schools are open to everyone, not just those who belong to the Roman Catholic Church. In fact a lot of Hindu/Muslim and Jewish parents send their children to RC schools, because they support religion. They send them to denominational schools out with the mainstream for them to receive specific religious instruction.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Weegreenman]

That's fine, it's your opinion.

For me, separating children based on the fact they are Catholic gives the foaming at the mouth orange types a ready made excuse to point the finger at Catholics and the Catholic church.

It doesn't bother me tbh, but I really don't see any need for it, particularly when the vast majority of kids at these schools have no real interest in religion.

I tend to agree with this, separating kids because of religion isn’t a good thing in my book.

[BILLYHIBS]

I went to a big non-dom school in Edinburgh but a few of us were sent to an RC school for one subject mine wasn't doing. The other kids were brand new and just the same as at my own school but a couple of the teachers were a bit unpleasant eg making comments about other pupils being 'good Catholic boys/girls' if one of us did something wrong. Wasn't overly bothered but it was a bit weird and it's stuck with me 18 years later.

Sorry to hear that

Unacceptable

I went to a Catholic School and we had a Regi Teacher first thing who took the Class Registration and would give you a talk on RE and morals, life in general and always about doing the right thing

We had Assembly once a week which on Feast Days might include Mass

The Priests and Teachers were brand new great guys usually always hibbies it was the nuns you had to watch out for :greengrin

[Cataplana]

Interesting stuff, thinking about it, I don't think sending Catholic children to a separate school, is quite the same thing as grown men singing songs and playing flutes .

Catholics have a right to follow their faith, and a fundamental principle of Protestantism is to tolerate other religions.

While I do question the need to school kids separately, and think that attending the same school would promote tolerance, it's a classic example of whataboutery.

Fact is the poison spread by the Orange order is at the core of Scotland's sectarian problem. I don't see the same evangelical approach from the Catholics.

There just doesn't seem to be the same need to make a public display of their faith, as exists in hardcore loyalist communities. I don't think the Vatican will be attempting a comeback in Scotland any time soon, so maybe it's a good time to move on from 17th century politics.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Last week it was Peep Show, now people are being whooshed by Blues Brothers references, what has become of this forum? I blame Heckingbottom, and Petrie, and the admins (obviously).

Petrie out!
Heckingbottom out!
Admins out!

Lol

Yeah it was me that started the peep show one too

I should watch less tv

[Dmas]

Nothing to do with the schools. No reason why there can't be separate schools. It's people who continue with this nonsense not the school. My mate got far more re at his non Catholic school than the Catholic ones I attended. To my eyes bigotry of all kind is getting worse and we are losing all the ground gained in the last few decades trump and Johnson are only making matters worse.

I was taught far more about other religions than the religion of the school I attended during R.E classes, I don’t think it’s whats being taught in school that’s the issue it’s more of the immediate separation of children into groups based on faith at 5 years old onwards.
Totally agree with your other comment in regards to trump and Johnson, guys like that are benefitting hugely by using separation tactics in there politics.

[mjhibby]

I was taught far more about other religions than the religion of the school I attended during R.E classes, I don’t think it’s whats being taught in school that’s the issue it’s more of the immediate separation of children into groups based on faith at 5 years old onwards. H
Totally agree with your other comment in regards to trump and Johnson, guys like that are benefitting hugely by using separation tactics in there politics.

It's not just those two cretins. All over the world govts are offering quick,easy fix solutions to complex problems by blaming outsiders/immigrants/ the eu and this is drastically heightening divisions. Both the USA and the UK are as polarised as I can remember and unless we educate tolerance then we could feasibly slide back to the 70s without noticing. Right wing agendas are by definition divisive as they offer solutions which can't be achieved then the resentment builds up. I'm not particularly in favour of Catholic schools I just don't think getting rid will help the problem. It's the families where it's in their DNA that we need to break down. Bigotry of course has been increased enormously by social media where folk say things under anonymity that they would never say in the street. I know the 70s weren't perfect but with all forms of bigotry on the increase and nonsense pc police everywhere I can't help think that life was better and less stressed then. Or maybe my mind's playing tricks on me.

[The Harp Awakes]

That's fine, it's your opinion.

For me, separating children based on the fact they are Catholic gives the foaming at the mouth orange types a ready made excuse to point the finger at Catholics and the Catholic church.

It doesn't bother me tbh, but I really don't see any need for it, particularly when the vast majority of kids at these schools have no real interest in religion.

The same argument about achools is trotted out every time this problem raises it's head. It's a smokescreen. Look across the border into England and Wales and you will see catholic and non-denominal schools and religious bigotry is not a problem whatsoever.

The sectarianism is endemic in Scottish and Northern Irish society. It continues because it is so rife in the West of Scotland that the authorities, including football authorities, turn a blind eye to it.

[Cataplana]

Getting back to football. The existence of two teams which focus on the religious divide has to be one of the biggest factors in maintaining divisions in our society

Hence the fact that Rangers orange strip is a sign of a club that has no real interest in doing anything to stop sectarianism.

[bigwheel]

It's a complex topic this...

to me , there is no doubt deep heritage in British culture which has been anti-catholic..from the reformation to the Treaty of the union - where (I believe) it is still illegal for a Catholic to be Head of State for the UK...For many years catholics found it unequal around employment opportunities. Which created (and perhaps in some areas still exists) an approach to help each other around employment.

Yet, equally, there is a mistrust (even amongst many catholics) of the Catholic Church..their lack of transparency and handling of some damaging issues - have created an unhealthy view of the Catholic Church.

There are few examples of the same level oppression against protestants..doesn't exist in a systemic way. I'm not saying there won't be a few examples - and certainly the IRA supporting tone of the Celtic (and some other) fans creates a real "them and us" environment - but it is not as deeply held in the way catholics have been viewed and treated over many centuries in Scotland. Doesn't mean it is not seen as hateful though.

The orange strip thing is a little example of this complexity. The fact is it was chosen by Rangers for both reasons - one to celebrate their dutch players, but likely triggered by very well knowing that it would play to these "traditions" prejudices. There is no way they would have chosen a green strip had they had a long history of successful players from (say) Ireland, Saudi, etc...

[Moulin Yarns]

My wife taught RE at a Catholic secondary right up to the point where they asked who her priest was. The penguins had her taken out of RE classes there and then.

The worst of it is, it was all the same curriculum and exams regardless of what faith they did or didn't have..

Faith schools of all kinds (private schools included) need ending.

OMFG :rolleyes:

[Bishop Hibee]

Anti Catholic abuse is the fault of Catholics for having Roman Catholic schools. Good one.

Under Murray, Oldco had made some progress eliminating mating sectarian chanting from Ibrox. The current mob have tacitly encouraged the worst elements in their support to create an “us against the world” mentality. Coming back to bite them now.

[FilipinoHibs]

I tend to agree with this, separating kids because of religion isn’t a good thing in my book.

In my town there was not enough kids to support aRC high school so the kids from the local RC primary went to the same high school.as all the other children. We had morning assemblies that were Christian - no other religions in the town. They reflected Church of Scotland, RC and Episcopalian Faith's. No religious bigotry apart from a few from a Glasgow over spill estate .

[Cataplana]

Anti Catholic abuse is the fault of Catholics for having Roman Catholic schools. Good one.

Under Murray, Oldco had made some progress eliminating mating sectarian chanting from Ibrox. The current mob have tacitly encouraged the worst elements in their support to create an “us against the world” mentality. Coming back to bite them now.

I agree with your point. In the interests of balance, can you suggest any reasons for anti protestant abuse, if it exists.

I sometimes think comedians and pundits playing up their origins is a bit unnecessary. For example, Billy Connolly frequently takes a pop at Presbyterianism, and blames it for all Scotland's ills.

Likewise, I can get a bit bored with Catholic friends always joking that there is a Protestant conspiracy to keep them down. Where is that being fostered?

It can be quite amusing to hear that it is a mason who is giving all the decisions against, as the same masons seem to give all the decisions against us when we play Celtic.

Is freemasonry actually anti Hibs?

[Sammy7nil]

I agree with your point. In the interests of balance, can you suggest any reasons for anti protestant abuse, if it exists.

I sometimes think comedians and pundits playing up their origins is a bit unnecessary. For example, Billy Connolly frequently takes a pop at Presbyterianism, and blames it for all Scotland's ills.

Likewise, I can get a bit bored with Catholic friends always joking that there is a Protestant conspiracy to keep them down. Where is that being fostered?

It can be quite amusing to hear that it is a mason who is giving all the decisions against, as the same masons seem to give all the decisions against us when we play Celtic.

Is freemasonry actually anti Hibs?

The facts are the Orange Order are anti Catholic so much so you are permanently barred if found attending a catholic funeral.

As recent as 30 - 40 years ago there were jobs Catholics just could not get. Was that down to freemasonsry I dont know but it did go on. Personally I have not encountered bigotry witnessed loads but find the East Coast far more inclusive than the west coast.

[Hibernia&Alba]

The schools debate is valuable. I attended a faith school (RC), but I support the idea of dissolving them, on the grounds that religion is a private matter which shouldn't be eligible for public money. This separation of church and state is seen in the USA and France, for example. In England they also have Anglican schools; in Scotland our non-denominational schools are Protestant schools in all but name. Faith schools do not teach bigotry; they are a symptom of division and not the cause of prejudice. However, separating children at school age does fortify a sense of 'us and them' which may be unhelpful in a society with a sectarian problem. This is more applicable in Scotland; in England sectarianism is much less a problem, but there remains the question of whether public money should be used for religious purposes. I would prefer to state to stay out of religion completely, and in Scotland it may also help break down barriers.

[BILLYHIBS]

The schools debate is valuable. I attended a faith school (RC), but I support the idea of dissolving them, on the grounds that religion is a private matter which shouldn't be eligible for public money. This separation is seen in the USA and France, for example. In England they also have Anglican schools; in Scotland our non-denominational schools are Protestant schools in all but name. Faith schools do not teach bigotry; they are a symptom of division and not the cause of prejudice. However, separating children at school age does fortify a sense of 'us and them' which may be unhelpful in a society with a sectarian problem. This is more applicable in Scotland; in England sectarianism is much less a problem, but there remains the question of whether public money should be used for religious purposes. I would prefer to state to stay out of religion completely, and in Scotland it may also help break down barriers.

:agree:

Good post

[007]

Pretty Woman - no, it objectifies females

I drove all night - no, it supports breaking and entering

Crying - yes, but it reminds them of the 2016 final

The stuff with the Travelling Wilburys is fine though

Hope that helps

What about the album Penny Arcade is off? Big o(t).

[Hibernia&Alba]

What about the album Penny Arcade is off? Big o(t).

Now That's What I Call Bigotry, Volume 1690. Smashing wee compilation for all knuckle-draggers: hatred, murder, battles from centuries ago; it's all there.

[green day]

Anti Catholic abuse is the fault of Catholics for having Roman Catholic schools. Good one.

If you take that from what I said, then perhaps I should apologise for not wording it better - that was certainly not my intention.

[The Spaceman]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-49472084

I thoroughly look forward to the daily reporting by the BBC of The Rangers fans acting in such a way and worse by the busload :fuming:

We should just film every one of those horrible ****s next time we are there and plaster them all over social media/newsfeeds.

[villager]

The schools debate is valuable. I attended a faith school (RC), but I support the idea of dissolving them, on the grounds that religion is a private matter which shouldn't be eligible for public money. This separation is seen in the USA and France, for example. In England they also have Anglican schools; in Scotland our non-denominational schools are Protestant schools in all but name. Faith schools do not teach bigotry; they are a symptom of division and not the cause of prejudice. However, separating children at school age does fortify a sense of 'us and them' which may be unhelpful in a society with a sectarian problem. This is more applicable in Scotland; in England sectarianism is much less a problem, but there remains the question of whether public money should be used for religious purposes. I would prefer to state to stay out of religion completely, and in Scotland it may also help break down barriers.

Nicely put, agree with all your post. :top marks

[ancient hibee]

The schools debate is valuable. I attended a faith school (RC), but I support the idea of dissolving them, on the grounds that religion is a private matter which shouldn't be eligible for public money. This separation is seen in the USA and France, for example. In England they also have Anglican schools; in Scotland our non-denominational schools are Protestant schools in all but name. Faith schools do not teach bigotry; they are a symptom of division and not the cause of prejudice. However, separating children at school age does fortify a sense of 'us and them' which may be unhelpful in a society with a sectarian problem. This is more applicable in Scotland; in England sectarianism is much less a problem, but there remains the question of whether public money should be used for religious purposes. I would prefer to state to stay out of religion completely, and in Scotland it may also help break down barriers.

In England of course it was the anti Jewish movement that was their sectarianism.

[cabbageandribs1875]

the vile filth hit with another charge


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49503683

Rangers will not ask for any tickets for their next European away game after receiving another Uefa charge for sectarian singing, the club say.

[Carheenlea]

the vile filth hit with another charge


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49503683

Rangers will not ask for any tickets for their next European away game after receiving another Uefa charge for sectarian singing, the club say.

Strict Liability is forcing them into taking preventative action. Not taking tickets for the next away fixture in Europe is one way of avoiding any further complaints of racism/sectarianism, and I reckon they will be absolutely bricking it before tomorrow nights Ibrox tie that their fans won`t be able to refrain from repeating the offending songs that got them into trouble with UEFA in the first place.
They'll be able to relax on Sunday though for the Old Firm game though when it comes back under SFA/SPFL jurisdiction - carry on as you were chaps.

[Topographic Hibby]

the vile filth hit with another charge


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49503683

Rangers will not ask for any tickets for their next European away game after receiving another Uefa charge for sectarian singing, the club say.Interesting.

If we hear them singing the same songs on Sunday afternoon, can we suggest that TRFC don’t ask for tickets for their next visit to ER?

[Argylehibby]

Anti Catholic abuse is the fault of Catholics for having Roman Catholic schools. Good one.

Under Murray, Oldco had made some progress eliminating mating sectarian chanting from Ibrox. The current mob have tacitly encouraged the worst elements in their support to create an “us against the world” mentality. Coming back to bite them now.

Murray did make inroads but I'm sure in his interview when he made the it has to stop plea at the end he said fans had to stop singing those songs in the stadium because the club would get fined by EUFA and they couldn't afford that. It wasn't because it was wrong or embarrassed the club but that it would cost them cash. That was a cop out To ensure they didn't alienate the fans but got them to behave during European ties.

The media in this country are are cowards and Mickey Stewart is a breath of fresh air. When the current majority shareholder announced the club was going to return to their traditions not one journalist, radio or tv reporter had the guts to ask for an explanation of what that meant, was it a return of their policy on signing Catholics?

[JimBHibees]

Strict Liability is forcing them into taking preventative action. Not taking tickets for the next away fixture in Europe is one way of avoiding any further complaints of racism/sectarianism, and I reckon they will be absolutely bricking it before tomorrow nights Ibrox tie that their fans won`t be able to refrain from repeating the offending songs that got them into trouble with UEFA in the first place.
They'll be able to relax on Sunday though for the Old Firm game though when it comes back under SFA/SPFL jurisdiction - carry on as you were chaps.

UEFA is clearly showing what needs to be done. What is so difficult about this?

[Peevemor]

UEFA is clearly showing what needs to be done. What is so difficult about this?

Last weekend during a L1 match between Brest & Reims the referee stopped play due to homophobic chanting from the crowd. This was in line with a new directive from the French league. The club president (I think) took the mic and told the supporters to cut it out. Play was resumed after 10 minutes

Something similar happened in the Nicee v Marseille match last night.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/28/nice-marseille-homophobic-banners-clement-turpin

From what I understand, repeat offending will lead to sanctions.

Maybe the league can do something about it without the need for strict liability?

[mixumatosis]

Never seen Blues Brothers?

I feel like the Illinois nazis ought to have got a mention here.

I hate Illinois nazis.

[InchHibby]

What makes me laugh is the crap coming from The The Rangers board, the part of the statement saying, “ the minority “, the minority my axxx, more like somewhere between the majority and them all.
Even the first song they sing when their team comes onto the pitch has in their bigoted minds, sectarian connotations.

[BoomtownHibees]

What makes me laugh is the crap coming from The The Rangers board, the part of the statement saying, “ the minority “, the minority my axxx, more like somewhere between the majority and them all.
Even the first song they sing when their team comes onto the pitch has in their bigoted minds, sectarian connotations.

And the club happily play it over the tannoy

[BILLYHIBS]

If the Huns sing their pish tonight they are dead meat!

They just can’t help themselves :greengrin

[Cataplana]

If the Huns sing their pish tonight they are dead meat!

They just can’t help themselves :greengrin

Guaranteed they will sing it.

[Lendo]

Guaranteed they will sing it.

There is absolutely zero chance of them being well behaved tonight. No surrender and all that *****.

If they go through i fully expect/hope for a stadium closure for the next home leg.

[The Baldmans Comb]

Not mine but tonight the Legia Warsaw fans should.....

"Dress up as priests, complete with crucifixis and rosary beads and sprinkle imaginiary holy water on the ground".

Thereafter just take the bye into the next round.😂

[cabbageandribs1875]

i might watch this, but i'd rather the cameras concentrated on the filth in the stands instead of what's happening on the pitch, i want to see the "teddy bears" faces all contorted, lots of gritting teeth, smoke coming out of their lugs just desperately wanting to sing their filthy "party" songs, go on all you "Bears" you know you want to, hello hello,you are the silly boys

[FilipinoHibs]

If the Huns sing their pish tonight they are dead meat!

They just can’t help themselves :greengrin

Yes had Hun on facebook tell me Hello Hello does not mention Catholics so not sectarian. Thenian of course a derogatory name for Catholics in Scotland.

[Carheenlea]

The biggest problem for Rangers is that these people are not deep rooted religious bigots who have then started supporting Rangers, they have embraced sectarianism and bigotry because they support Rangers. Sectarianism is a byproduct of supporting Rangers for far too many.
The numbers who follow Rangers who genuinely possess deep rooted sectarian views and live their life in such a way will definitely be in the minority at Ibrox, but it’s the 90 minute, or match-day bigots who make up the much larger chunk of the support who ultimately are the bigger problem for the club. If those fans could behave in the manner they live their lives when not following Rangers then the true zealots are easier identified and managed.

[BILLYHIBS]

Yes had Hun on facebook tell me Hello Hello does not mention Catholics so not sectarian. Thenian of course a derogatory name for Catholics in Scotland.
Ha Ha!
Just had a Hun trying to spin me the same line something about gangs forming in Bridgeton in Glasgow in the 1930s against Catholic immigrants from Ireland and because Catholic workers accepted lower wages it caused the Great Depression??
You just couldnae make it up!
The song was so catchy they just started singing it at all Rangers games and the whole stadium joined in as they still do
“We are up to our knees in Fenian blood!”
Dearie me
Hopefully we are nearing the end game with all this pish
As The Rangers now realise this is going to cost them money if they do not get their house in order
We need the SFA to follow UEFAs example and keep fining them,the diets, Celtic and anyone else that sings sectarian songs

[Since452]

Michael Stewart is a brilliant pundit. Doesn't dress things up and says what the normal fan on the street thinks. Seems to rub some other pundits of a certain persuasion up the wrong way which is great.

[JohnMcM]

I wonder if UEFA would ever consider forcing the SFA's hand?

For example, if there is repeat behaviour tonight and/or thereafter, in addition to further punishment for the individual club(s), could they tell the SFA that no Scottish club will play in their competitions until we get our house in order?

Any ITK's here?

Asking on behalf of 60,000 non-Glaswegian friends who also watch Scottish football week in, week out.

[Cataplana]

I wonder if UEFA would ever consider forcing the SFA's hand?

For example, if there is repeat behaviour tonight and/or thereafter, in addition to further punishment for the individual club(s), could they tell the SFA that no Scottish club will play in their competitions until we get our house in order?

Any ITK's here?

Asking on behalf of 60,000 non-Glaswegian friends who also watch Scottish football week in, week out.

Strict liability should mean no other club comes to harm.

If all clubs are punished , then that suggests all clubs are at fault, and that all clubs can do something about it.

[JohnMcM]

Strict liability should mean no other club comes to harm.

If all clubs are punished , then that suggests all clubs are at fault, and that all clubs can do something about it.

Thanks:greengrin

[Keith_M]

Ha Ha!
Just had a Hun trying to spin me the same line something about gangs forming in Bridgeton in Glasgow in the 1930s against Catholic immigrants from Ireland and because Catholic workers accepted lower wages it caused the Great Depression??
You just couldnae make it up!
The song was so catchy they just started singing it at all Rangers games and the whole stadium joined in as they still do
“We are up to our knees in Fenian blood!”
Dearie me
Hopefully we are nearing the end game with all this pish
As The Rangers now realise this is going to cost them money if they do not get their house in order
We need the SFA to follow UEFAs example and keep fining them,the diets, Celtic and anyone else that sings sectarian songs



When workers in the 1920s and 30s were striking for better wages and conditions, their Employers took advantage of anyone desperate for work and employed them as scab labour. It just so happens that, at that time, there were tens of thousands who'd fled Ireland and were literally desperate for work.

That caused a lot of ill feeling towards them, as they'd helped to undermine the efforts of the workers trying to improve their own lives. The thing is, the real enemy were the ones in charge, and both groups were just being used.

Some of the more extreme among the Loyalists that had moved from Ireland helped paint it as a religious issue, us against them.

[Cataplana]

When workers in the 1920s and 30s were striking for better wages and conditions, their Employers took advantage of anyone desperate for work and employed them as scab labour. It just so happens that, at that time, there were tens of thousands who'd fled Ireland and were literally desperate for work.

That caused a lot of ill feeling towards them, as they'd helped to undermine the efforts of the workers trying to improve their own lives. The thing is, the real enemy were the ones in charge, and both groups were just being used.

Some of the more extreme among the Loyalists that had moved from Ireland helped paint it as a religious issue, us against them.

Does that have any bearing on the BBC's diversity policy? :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

What makes me laugh is the crap coming from The The Rangers board, the part of the statement saying, “ the minority “, the minority my axxx, more like somewhere between the majority and them all.
Even the first song they sing when their team comes onto the pitch has in their bigoted minds, sectarian connotations.

The latest line is that UEFA are punishing them because they're finally capable of putting in a title challenge. :faf: Its a papist conspiracy I tell you.

[FilipinoHibs]

The latest line is that UEFA are punishing them because they're finally capable of putting in a title challenge. :faf: Its a papist conspiracy I tell you.

I can confirm the Vatican is behind this. They are desperate for 10 in a row.

[Victor]

The majority of Scots are of Irish descent. If, as the Ibrox loyal, decree, we all went home because ‘the Famine is over’ there would probably only be two men and a dog at most The Rangers games.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[FilipinoHibs]

The majority of Scots are of Irish descent. If, as the Ibrox loyal, decree, we all went home because ‘the Famine is over’ there would probably only be two men and a dog at most The Rangers games.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Not true. We are a mixture of Scots, Picts, Angles and Gaels who all did not come from Ireland.

[Peevemor]

Not true. We are a mixture of Scots, Picts, Angles and Gaels who all did not come from Ireland.

And vikings.

[norhfc]

My family ended up in Edinburgh during the potato famine so as I told my kids when they asked what they where singing at us, well the first part is historically correct.

[Moulin Yarns]

And vikings.

Aye, and Romans, but what did the Vikings ever do for us? :wink:

[BILLYHIBS]

Aye, and Romans, but what did the Vikings ever do for us? :wink:

Rape, pillage and Nicklaus Gunnarson 😁

[Cataplana]

My family ended up in Edinburgh during the potato famine so as I told my kids when they asked what they where singing at us, well the first part is historically correct.

That is a particularly nasty song.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49529380

Funny how a match delegate can report thistle

[Sir David Gray]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49529380

Funny how a match delegate can report thistle

I'm looking forward to reading the match delegate's report after Sunday's match.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I'm looking forward to reading the match delegate's report after Sunday's match.

You will still be reading it at Christmas; it will be as long as a Tolstoy novel.

[FilipinoHibs]

Last weekend during a L1 match between Brest & Reims the referee stopped play due to homophobic chanting from the crowd. This was in line with a new directive from the French league. The club president (I think) took the mic and told the supporters to cut it out. Play was resumed after 10 minutes

Something similar happened in the Nicee v Marseille match last night.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/28/nice-marseille-homophobic-banners-clement-turpin

From what I understand, repeat offending will lead to sanctions.

Maybe the league can do something about it without the need for strict liability?

National leagues doing something about it apart from Scotland. Hearts would be on the hook for up to your Knees and all the Hibbies are..

[Sir David Gray]

You will still be reading it at Christmas; it will be as long as a Tolstoy novel.

The sad thing is, I'm not sure that it will be.