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HibeeHibernian4
24-08-2019, 05:06 PM
to get those who want him out back on side.

An improvement in the style of football?
A derby win?
A couple of exciting signings?
Beating Killie to get to Hampden?

Or is the situation completely unsalvageable in the eyes of some?

HUTCHYHIBBY
24-08-2019, 05:07 PM
The honourable thing.

HibeeHibernian4
24-08-2019, 05:09 PM
The honourable thing.

Assuming that means a resignation, why?

He's got credit in the bank from his work between February and April, which turned a potentially disastrous season into a decent one.

Speedway
24-08-2019, 05:09 PM
1. Fast flowing attacking football, with a cutting edge.
2. Take the fight to the OF
3. Win far more than we lose using the style outlined in #1
4. Inspire and connect with the fans in media communications.
5. Sign the players we actually need.
6. Sign players with pedigree at playing at an international level that we feel lucky to get.

That would do it for me.

B.H.F.C
24-08-2019, 05:09 PM
Win games against decent sides. Be a bit more positive.

It’s really, really boring.

He’s not coming back from this.

Squirrel 1875
24-08-2019, 05:10 PM
Nothing is unsalvageable. However, I think it has went too far. He has completely taken us back to the team we were when we got relegated. He is passionless, has zero personality and look totally incapable of turning it around. Unacceptable.

BoltonHibee
24-08-2019, 05:11 PM
Resign - he’s a fraud, simple as. The sooner folk or more importantly the board realise this the better.


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HUTCHYHIBBY
24-08-2019, 05:11 PM
Assuming that means a resignation, why?

He's got credit in the bank from his work between February and April, which turned a potentially disastrous season into a decent one.

He's lost the fan base, as Pretty Boy said elsewhere, very rarely does a manager come back from that.

Crab apple
24-08-2019, 05:12 PM
He lost me after the 6-1 defeat to the huns. It wasn't just the result but the performance was really poor too. The man talks the talk but it's results that count and we've shipped 11 goals in our last three games. He's apparently been well backed by the board so I think they'll give him until the end of the season.

tonyrougier123
24-08-2019, 05:12 PM
Find a player like omeonga,who carried us into the top six last season.loved that guy!!
Play allan centrally,that would give himself a fighting chance.

Drop mallan for a bit,see if he gets a reaction.

Sign a centre half comfortable on the ball.

Try a 3-5-2 formation.

HibeeHibernian4
24-08-2019, 05:12 PM
He's lost the fan base, as Pretty Boy said elsewhere, very rarely does a manager come back from that.

But what if the fanbase are wrong? I sit among them week after week and have come to the conclusion that most of them haven't got a clue.

Speedway
24-08-2019, 05:12 PM
Assuming that means a resignation, why?

He's got credit in the bank from his work between February and April, which turned a potentially disastrous season into a decent one.

How long does he live off a half-dozen games against mostly bottom 6 opposition for?

HappyAsHellas
24-08-2019, 05:12 PM
After the game today on the way home, my daughter said she couldn't remember the last time she had come away from ER buzzing after a great entertaining win or game. Hecky has to start entertaining us or he'll be out the door pronto.

crash
24-08-2019, 05:13 PM
if he had tried being honest with the support instead of feeding them bull5hit about a high pressing game and increased fitness levels.

jeffers
24-08-2019, 05:13 PM
The honourable thing.

This for me. His signings are poor, his football style poor and his playing our best player out of position is a joke. Oh and take that big huddy Doidge with you when you go.

we are hibs
24-08-2019, 05:14 PM
The style of football is abysmal. We look unfit. We dont win enough 2nd balls in midfield. The defence is a disorganised shambles.


Improve sharpish or change it. Dont let another season fritter away into midtable pish

Rocky
24-08-2019, 05:15 PM
Not put Vela in Allan's position would be a start. I'm generally a "happy clapper" but that was utterly incomprehensible.

Radium
24-08-2019, 05:15 PM
There is nothing he can do.

Today felt like championship under Stubbs. Soft goals and a team that doesn’t seem to believe in itself.

Talent is there, just not performing which comes back to the head coach.


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truehibernian
24-08-2019, 05:15 PM
He won’t last long - football is dreadful and pedestrian - hate punting managers but I’d consider it now. Bottom 6 football easily.

SMAXXA
24-08-2019, 05:15 PM
Win games against decent sides. Be a bit more positive.

It’s really, really boring.

He’s not coming back from this.

A draw at home to a team who have always gave us problems over the years and he’s not coming back from this is madness.

Some folk are going over the top with this result imo, and I’m sure it would be the same if we have had the start Aberdeen have had and Hearts and Killi and St J all traditionally been the better teams last couple of years. It happens, we need to improve I know that as much as the rest of fans but calling for his head after 3 league games is wrong again imo. Some folk have never taken to him and I fear never will and can’t wait to put the boot in and try get him out.

Hibbyradge
24-08-2019, 05:16 PM
Assuming that means a resignation, why?

He's got credit in the bank from his work between February and April, which turned a potentially disastrous season into a decent one.

The players turned it around themselves after they were released from Lennon's oppressive management "style".

Heckingbottom more or less admitted that when he told us that he just played who was available. Hanlon and McGregor weren't even training.

makaveli1875
24-08-2019, 05:17 PM
Nothing is unsalvageable. However, I think it has went too far. He has completely taken us back to the team we were when we got relegated. He is passionless, has zero personality and look totally incapable of turning it around. Unacceptable.

If he did some cartwheels up the touch line and told a couple of jokes in his interviews would it be more acceptable to you

SMAXXA
24-08-2019, 05:18 PM
The players turned it around themselves after they were released from Lennon's oppressive management "style".

Heckingbottom more or less admitted that when he told us that he just played who was available. Hanlon and McGregor weren't even training.

So is that a bigger indictment of the players than anyone else, or Lennon or both by that logic?

HUTCHYHIBBY
24-08-2019, 05:18 PM
But what if the fanbase are wrong? I sit among them week after week and have come to the conclusion that most of them haven't got a clue.

You asked, I answered. What about other folks responses?

Hiber-nation
24-08-2019, 05:18 PM
He won’t last long - football is dreadful and pedestrian - hate punting managers but I’d consider it now. Bottom 6 football easily.

Yep talks a great game but it's obvious he's seriously underestimated the game up here.

You could drive a bus through our midfield now and that was the area that we needed to strengthen.

cabbageandribs1875
24-08-2019, 05:19 PM
i told dempster NOT to hire heckingbottom, did she listen ? did she falkirk

madhatter
24-08-2019, 05:19 PM
Resign. Sad to say but he just doesn’t seem like he has it. Seems a nice guy but he keeps asking “do you know what I mean” in interviews and I honestly get the impression he talks a good game but is incapable of doing it. Also get the feeling he is more like a coach and a friend of the players. He doesn’t inspire the fans and, going by these performances, I don’t think he inspires the players.

HibeeHibernian4
24-08-2019, 05:20 PM
There is nothing he can do.

Today felt like championship under Stubbs. Soft goals and a team that doesn’t seem to believe in itself.

Talent is there, just not performing which comes back to the head coach.


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I don't think you watched us in the Championship under Stubbs, in that case...

Johnny_Leith
24-08-2019, 05:21 PM
I don't think you watched us in the Championship under Stubbs, in that case...

We believed in ourselves, but we did ship a lot of soft goals under Stubbsy.

Mr Grieves
24-08-2019, 05:21 PM
Decent football and decent results.

Unfortunately, I don't think our manager has the desire to play decent football and we don't have the personnel to play his long ball/sitting back game, so he's stuffed.

CloudSquall
24-08-2019, 05:21 PM
An improvement in the style of football, beating teams like St Jonhstone at home, quickly putting together a setttled team that looks as if it knows what it is meant to be doing.

cabbageandribs1875
24-08-2019, 05:21 PM
There is nothing he can do.

Today felt like championship under Stubbs. Soft goals and a team that doesn’t seem to believe in itself.

Talent is there, just not performing which comes back to the head coach.


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we can compare them next season



:devil:

Speedway
24-08-2019, 05:22 PM
i told dempster NOT to hire heckingbottom, did she listen ? did she falkirk

I told her the same, but I also advised against Appleton.

I also advised Rod against McLeish so I don’t blame them for ignoring me.

Hibbyradge
24-08-2019, 05:23 PM
So is that a bigger indictment of the players than anyone else, or Lennon or both by that logic?

Lennon had the team playing scared.

It's an indictment of Lennon.

Mr Grieves
24-08-2019, 05:25 PM
But what if the fanbase are wrong? I sit among them week after week and have come to the conclusion that most of them haven't got a clue.

The customer is always right...

HibeeHibernian4
24-08-2019, 05:25 PM
We believed in ourselves, but we did ship a lot of soft goals under Stubbsy.

We also played a lot of attractive, attacking football with frustratingly not enough end product. That's the direct opposite of what we are right now - not good to watch but clinical and scoring.

cabbageandribs1875
24-08-2019, 05:25 PM
I told her the same, but I also advised against Appleton.

I also advised Rod against McLeish so I don’t blame them for ignoring me.



she blocked me after the first warning so i didn't even get a chance to warn about appleton as well :I'm waiti



but i DID want big eck :)

madhatter
24-08-2019, 05:25 PM
A draw at home to a team who have always gave us problems over the years and he’s not coming back from this is madness.

Some folk are going over the top with this result imo, and I’m sure it would be the same if we have had the start Aberdeen have had and Hearts and Killi and St J all traditionally been the better teams last couple of years. It happens, we need to improve I know that as much as the rest of fans but calling for his head after 3 league games is wrong again imo. Some folk have never taken to him and I fear never will and can’t wait to put the boot in and try get him out.

We didn’t play well for most of the games under Hecky last season as well if we are all being honest. We ground out results when we should have been comfortable based on player comparisons between the teams. Same is continuing, we are having to grind out results every single week.

He had to sort the midfield in the summer and he hasn’t. Players stopped pressing and sat really deep. He was a guy that repeatedly talked about high press. Sorry but some of the criticism is his fault, don’t talk about high press and fitness levels and then have Mallan jogging around in midfield doing nothing every game. Vela at least tackled and got touch tight. Mallan is yards of everyone.

B.H.F.C
24-08-2019, 05:26 PM
A draw at home to a team who have always gave us problems over the years and he’s not coming back from this is madness.

Some folk are going over the top with this result imo, and I’m sure it would be the same if we have had the start Aberdeen have had and Hearts and Killi and St J all traditionally been the better teams last couple of years. It happens, we need to improve I know that as much as the rest of fans but calling for his head after 3 league games is wrong again imo. Some folk have never taken to him and I fear never will and can’t wait to put the boot in and try get him out.

Saw you post earlier that your weren’t there today I think? The atmosphere about the place was terrible, no enjoyment about it. We’ve lost a couple of thousand from the gate as well which tells it’s own story, before you even consider what we saw on the pitch.

The crowd have turned on him, in a big way. It’s difficult to see him coming back from that because it’s difficult to see anything improving. It’s been poor, right from the first game of pre season.

1 league win in the last 8 by the way. Hardly any goals.

Not criticising you for it being at the game, if you weren’t, but the general feeling in the ground would add context to my original post.

Speedway
24-08-2019, 05:26 PM
she blocked me after the first warning so i didn't even get a chance to warn about appleton as well :I'm waiti



but i DID want big eck :)

I wanted Tommy Burns at the time. I might need to have a word with myself at some point.

HibeeHibernian4
24-08-2019, 05:27 PM
The customer is always right...

"The customer", if we're reducing Hibs' support down to a single hypothetical person, has nearly doubled in size since a certain Scottish Cup triumph. Perhaps those who got back on the bandwagon once we won something are struggling to come to terms with the fact that it's not all roses when it comes to following Hibs.

Hiber-nation
24-08-2019, 05:29 PM
Today felt like championship under Stubbs.

I saw absolutely no evidence of us passing a team into submission, having 70% possession and about 35 shots to 2.

Johnny_Leith
24-08-2019, 05:31 PM
We also played a lot of attractive, attacking football with frustratingly not enough end product. That's the direct opposite of what we are right now - not good to watch but clinical and scoring.

Totally agree. Played some great stuff under Stubbs in the championship. Scoring at the moment but were suspect defensively and don't control the game.

tonyrougier123
24-08-2019, 05:33 PM
I saw absolutely no evidence of us passing a team into submission, having 70% possession and about 35 shots to 2.

Exactly 👍.the football and the stats where never as bad as today's showing.

Turkish Green
24-08-2019, 05:33 PM
i told dempster NOT to hire heckingbottom, did she listen ? did she falkirk

Could end up as her legacy.

My first game of the season today, very poor performance which reflected poorly on Heckinbottom's ability.

judas
24-08-2019, 05:33 PM
1. Fast flowing attacking football, with a cutting edge.
2. Take the fight to the OF
3. Win far more than we lose using the style outlined in #1
4. Inspire and connect with the fans in media communications.
5. Sign the players we actually need.
6. Sign players with pedigree at playing at an international level that we feel lucky to get.

That would do it for me.

Not asking for much I see.

SMAXXA
24-08-2019, 05:33 PM
Saw you post earlier that your weren’t there today I think? The atmosphere about the place was terrible, no enjoyment about it. We’ve lost a couple of thousand from the gate as well which tells it’s own story, before you even consider what we saw on the pitch.

The crowd have turned on him, in a big way. It’s difficult to see him coming back from that because it’s difficult to see anything improving. It’s been poor, right from the first game of pre season.

1 league win in the last 8 by the way. Hardly any goals.

No I couldn’t make today but someone kindly sent me the link to hesgoal so watched the second half and felt the atmosphere was strange. Actually hears some encouragement from the crowd even Heckys GAWA so I’m not blaming the crowd for the situation although I didn’t agree with the boooooing when he took SA off and I think it did seem to make us that little bit more edgy and sat a bit deeper. I totally get peoples frustration and I’m feeling it aswell but genuinely feel it’s too early to want to sack him. We end up with someone else who maybe doesn’t rate the players and can’t do anything about it till January realistically, another rebuild. As I say I’m not saying he’s immune to criticism just not the sack at this stage.

Marvellous
24-08-2019, 05:34 PM
Could end up as her legacy.

My first game of the season today, very poor performance which reflected poorly on Heckinbottom's ability.

You'd need to be a special kind of simplistic, pessimistic moron to define Dempster on one poor appointment (if it proves to be one) in spite of all she's done for Hibs.

Unseen work
24-08-2019, 05:35 PM
Funny when you have a new manager in the previous ones instantly become much better.

Bar 6 months when Allan was on loan, Lennon did not play good football. It was slow and we knocked it about without looking like scoring

i fear no matter what’s Heckingbottom does fans won’t want him, he can’t even make a sub without getting booed. Even though a lot of fans were saying Allan was poor and we were getting over run.

Some are jumping on the guy at every chance to criticise him.

Players need to take responsibility too.

Sir David Gray
24-08-2019, 05:37 PM
I honestly can't see how he can get people back onside.

He's lost some sections of the support and these numbers are growing by the week.

It's difficult to see any other outcome other than him leaving sooner rather than later.

madhatter
24-08-2019, 05:39 PM
Funny when you have a new manager in the previous ones instantly become much better.

Bar 6 months when Allan was on loan, Lennon did not play good football. It was slow and we knocked it about without looking like scoring

i fear no matter what’s Heckingbottom does fans won’t want him, he can’t even make a sub without getting booed. Even though a lot of fans were saying Allan was poor and we were getting over run.

Some are jumping on the guy at every chance to criticise him.

Players need to take responsibility too.

I see where you are coming from but I personally want him to leave now but will give him every chance to get it right. I just don’t think he has it. I wanted him to work out, I was excited when he first came in and talked about high press but ultimately fans want to see product on the park and he’s never really managed to get anything consistent on the park and looking at personnel he’ll never be able to get high press. He brought pressure on himself.

B.H.F.C
24-08-2019, 05:41 PM
No I couldn’t make today but someone kindly sent me the link to hesgoal so watched the second half and felt the atmosphere was strange. Actually hears some encouragement from the crowd even Heckys GAWA so I’m not blaming the crowd for the situation although I didn’t agree with the boooooing when he took SA off and I think it did seem to make us that little bit more edgy and sat a bit deeper. I totally get peoples frustration and I’m feeling it aswell but genuinely feel it’s too early to want to sack him. We end up with someone else who maybe doesn’t rate the players and can’t do anything about it till January realistically, another rebuild. As I say I’m not saying he’s immune to criticism just not the sack at this stage.

Just amended my last post. Not having a go at you for it being there. But knowing what the general feeling was in the ground is why I think he’s done. The negative reaction he got was when we were 1 up.

Real Emerald
24-08-2019, 05:41 PM
"The customer", if we're reducing Hibs' support down to a single hypothetical person, has nearly doubled in size since a certain Scottish Cup triumph. Perhaps those who got back on the bandwagon once we won something are struggling to come to terms with the fact that it's not all roses when it comes to following Hibs.

The people who jumped on the bandwagon are exactly the people we need to keep otherwise we’re back down to a 7000 core and struggling again. Unfortunately this managers signings, style of play and tactics have us on a course directly heading towards the dark days again. We need to act before we bottom out again. IMHO, he won’t get the fans back on side.

hibsbollah
24-08-2019, 05:42 PM
But what if the fanbase are wrong? I sit among them week after week and have come to the conclusion that most of them haven't got a clue.

Pas de scooby.

Speedway
24-08-2019, 05:42 PM
Not asking for much I see.

Do you see anything unreasonable in there?

Pretty Boy
24-08-2019, 05:50 PM
After the Rangers game I said he had to win the next 2 and if he could do it convincingly with a bit swagger then all the better. He has failed to do that.

If he wants the fans on side he needs to get back to winning games. Our league form is won 1, lost 1 and drew 1. With the fixtures we have had it should be better than that. Beyond winning we need to start seeing signs we are gelling, moving forward and improving. There has been scant evidence of that all season, if anything we are regressing in terms of performance levels.

Fans are fickle. If we take 7 points from our next 3 games, and 3 of those come against Hearts, then people will be lining up to crow about how they aren't 'bedwetters' and they always believed in Hecky.

Hibs90
24-08-2019, 05:51 PM
to get those who want him out back on side.

An improvement in the style of football?
A derby win?
A couple of exciting signings?
Beating Killie to get to Hampden?

Or is the situation completely unsalvageable in the eyes of some?

All 4 is a must for me.

jacomo
24-08-2019, 05:54 PM
to get those who want him out back on side.

An improvement in the style of football?
A derby win?
A couple of exciting signings?
Beating Killie to get to Hampden?

Or is the situation completely unsalvageable in the eyes of some?


I want to see some connection between what he says and what we do. I get that he is trying to implement a new system and that takes a lot of work, but he has been backed this summer to sign the type of players he wants and get rid of those he doesn’t.

And he needs to get results in the meantime. He’s thrown two points away today.

Real Emerald
24-08-2019, 05:57 PM
"The customer", if we're reducing Hibs' support down to a single hypothetical person, has nearly doubled in size since a certain Scottish Cup triumph. Perhaps those who got back on the bandwagon once we won something are struggling to come to terms with the fact that it's not all roses when it comes to following Hibs.

The people who jumped on the bandwagon are exactly the people we need to keep otherwise we’re back down to a 7000 core and struggling again. Unfortunately this managers signings, style of play and tactics have us on a course directly heading towards the dark days again. We need to act before we bottom out again. IMHO, he won’t get the fans back on side.

Turkish Green
24-08-2019, 05:57 PM
Funny when you have a new manager in the previous ones instantly become much better.

Bar 6 months when Allan was on loan, Lennon did not play good football. It was slow and we knocked it about without looking like scoring

i fear no matter what’s Heckingbottom does fans won’t want him, he can’t even make a sub without getting booed. Even though a lot of fans were saying Allan was poor and we were getting over run.

Some are jumping on the guy at every chance to criticise him.

Players need to take responsibility too.

Statistics never lie? At home against relegation favourites St Johnstone and they have the better of the stats. I do hope this is a one-off but I doubt it.

hibeerealist
24-08-2019, 06:00 PM
But what if the fanbase are wrong? I sit among them week after week and have come to the conclusion that most of them haven't got a clue.

But you do (have a clue) and you think you are correct.

Fitba eh, opinions......

Squirrel 1875
24-08-2019, 06:00 PM
Can people who love Heckingbottom stop with the Neil Lennon comparisons? I’m yet to see a groundswell of posters who want Heckingbottom out say they wish Lennon was still here. He is irrelevant to this debate.

HibeeHibernian4
24-08-2019, 06:01 PM
But you do (have a clue) and you think you are correct.

Fitba eh, opinions......

Some people around me have been objectively wrong, mixing players up, calling for offsides that never were - so yes, that does influence how much I value their input.

proud_and_green
24-08-2019, 06:03 PM
Not put Vela in Allan's position would be a start. I'm generally a "happy clapper" but that was utterly incomprehensible.I'm a 'get rid of him now' er. But I think it might be a start if he played Allan in Allan's position not out on the bloody wing!

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WhileTheChief..
24-08-2019, 06:03 PM
Fans are fickle. If we take 7 points from our next 3 games, and 3 of those come against Hearts, then people will be lining up to crow about how they aren't 'bedwetters' and they always believed in Hecky.

Nope, they won’t, it won’t make a difference.

Even if we’d won 2-1 today the feedback on here would have been the same.

Eye bleeding, slow, lack of passion etc etc. That’s all still there and the odd result papering over the cracks won’t cut it.

The club needs to make the change quickly and nip this is the bud.

supermcginn
24-08-2019, 06:05 PM
Should have agreed to Appleton's release clause. Heck is miles out his depth.

supermcginn
24-08-2019, 06:06 PM
Nope, they won’t, it won’t make a difference.

Even if we’d won 2-1 today the feedback on here would have been the same.

Eye bleeding, slow, lack of passion etc etc. That’s all still there and the odd result papering over the cracks won’t cut it.

The club needs to make the change quickly and nip this is the bud.
Exactly this. Played off our home park by a team that lost to forfar and Montrose and that got destroyed 7 0 by celtic.

Jones28
24-08-2019, 06:08 PM
It’s worrying that he has been allowed to put his stamp on the team and taken the quality so far backwards.

Last season he still had Lennons players, who we knew were capable but the chemistry with NL was no longer right. Now? Really poor.

hibeerealist
24-08-2019, 06:11 PM
"The customer", if we're reducing Hibs' support down to a single hypothetical person, has nearly doubled in size since a certain Scottish Cup triumph. Perhaps those who got back on the bandwagon once we won something are struggling to come to terms with the fact that it's not all roses when it comes to following Hibs.


Get your point, I have followed HFC for 50 years however, is it unreasonable of the support (all, not just new ST holders since 2016) to expect us to at least play better than we did today?

Perhaps it is not too much to expect a win against a side that has struggled from the start of the season. They outplayed us for long spells today and a neutral would be confused if you told them we were the home side and with the better start.

Lastly, why would you feel it is right to have a go at supporters who “got back on the bandwagon ........”, we are all Hibs’ supporters and they are as good a supporter and as welcome at ER as you or I?

Pains me to hear the amount on here who blame or have a go at the support, regardless how long they have had a ST.

HIBERNIAN-0762
24-08-2019, 06:13 PM
Resign and take your lower league duds with you

tonyrougier123
24-08-2019, 06:13 PM
Can people who love Heckingbottom stop with the Neil Lennon comparisons? I’m yet to see a groundswell of posters who want Heckingbottom out say they wish Lennon was still here. He is irrelevant to this debate.
👍 totally agree,some ppl trying really hard to bring lennon into the debate.

This is heckingbottoms doing.what you all are watching is what he regards as high pressing, energetic football.

And its anything but.

hibeerealist
24-08-2019, 06:13 PM
Some people around me have been objectively wrong, mixing players up, calling for offsides that never were - so yes, that does influence how much I value their input.


You did say say in your post - most- not some. Yes there are some around me too but it certainly not most of the support.

Is It On....
24-08-2019, 06:14 PM
Assuming that means a resignation, why?

He's got credit in the bank from his work between February and April, which turned a potentially disastrous season into a decent one.

How much of the improvement do you think was down to having Marc McNulty upfront?

B.H.F.C
24-08-2019, 06:15 PM
Nope, they won’t, it won’t make a difference.

Even if we’d won 2-1 today the feedback on here would have been the same.

Eye bleeding, slow, lack of passion etc etc. That’s all still there and the odd result papering over the cracks won’t cut it.

The club needs to make the change quickly and nip this is the bud.

Agreed. Had we not lost that goal, I wouldn’t feel much different.

Radium
24-08-2019, 06:19 PM
I don't think you watched us in the Championship under Stubbs, in that case...

I did but we are on an anonymous Internet forum so how are you expected to know.

We lost too many games against beatable sides, with many of the goals coming late on. We were good against TRFC and Hearts but too often weren’t able to put alleged lesser sides away.

Take that to today, Horgan has 2 opportunities to play over the top passes to players running through and scuffs both. That’s not a lack of talent at this level it’s a lack of belief.

Stubbs is a Legend for winning the cup. His 3rd place in the championship was less impressive.


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The Captain....
24-08-2019, 06:25 PM
I see us being in a similar position as we were under Calderwood. Lame duck manager unpopular with the support but Board not wanting to sack him early on. We'll limp along in much the same way as we've started as there is insufficient ability in the players brought in to play the type of football the manager proclaims he wants us playing.

He'll still be manager by Xmas unless he chucks it and resigns as I dont see Dempster sacking him. She is not one for admitting errors.



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wookie70
24-08-2019, 06:38 PM
Heck just needs to find a formula that works in midfield. The defense are being over run and the ball is coming into and around the box far too often. We have far too many passengers in midfield and I just can't see where Scottie fits in if we stick with Mallan.Heck has to take some of the blame for players performances and the balance in midfield. Allan today may have been playing out of position but he was atrocious. Horgan looked like he had his laces tied together and Mallan is never a DM and looks so much better when he is higher up the park.

I am fairly neutral on Heck. I like what he says but there hasn't been enough evidence of his said plan on the park. His signings haven't been great, so far, but I don't think, on the whole, they are disastrous. Doidge has started slowly but there were decent signs today, Jackson looks OK, James looks decent and Newell hasn't been great but not played a huge amount and look at Horgan today if you want to see how poor wingers can be. Vela looks like he might do a job but is lacking fitness, we knew that. We also have SDG and Lewis far from fully match fit which was a big part of the problems today as the wingers were winning most of their 1 on 1s and there were far too many 1 on 1s as the midfield were not stopping the passes or even slowing them down. Our biggest problem is we lack legs in midfield just as we did when Heck took over. One the players brought in to remedy this has played a handful of games and the other just arrived and contributed 1 half time draw so far. He has only had a single window to deal with this issue. Rome wasn't built in a day.

The players played very poorly barring an odd few today. I don't think the shape helped and there did seem to be a lack of energy. Was it the shape, is it the motivation from the manager or just a bad day at the office for too many players, I suspect a mixture of all three with a dash of a Saints team who have a great record at ER recently. It's all too early to be sure for me but given the venom shown by some I doubt I'll have the chance to make my mind up before Heck is chased. That will of course cost a fortune and may be the start of years of issues.

Heck has found himself with a squad that was very unbalanced, lacking pace and motivation and had legends starting to feel the years in their legs. He has had one window and it isn't clicking just now. Saying that we got a point today at home to St Johnstone who scored very late to earn their point. On their last two visits with Lennon in charge they scored very late on both occasions for all three points. It is an improvement in result but the performance was poor. I don't think I would blame the manager for the subs but he has to take his share of the blame for St Js looking the better team at ER given the respective budgets.

I hope he goes on to be a successful manager but Hibs fans turn on managers very quickly and it usually comes down to style of football more than results, the two tend to go hand in hand though. As a support it does feel we are hoping the team fails so Heck gets emptied. That is not a support to me and the treatment Heck has received is ridiculous. Careful what you wish for as the last time the support behaved like this when a manager was playing workmanlike football but safely in the middle of the league we got Butcher. I fear the similar will happen again.

Northernhibee
24-08-2019, 06:42 PM
But what if the fanbase are wrong? I sit among them week after week and have come to the conclusion that most of them haven't got a clue.

100% this.

The_Horde
24-08-2019, 06:46 PM
I think he's already f***** it in all honesty with some of his signings, but if they somehow pull it around and get used to playing in front of more than just the wealdstone raider and his dug and they win the derby it might buy him something.

Can see Levein getting the better of him though.

H18 SFR
24-08-2019, 06:47 PM
I see us being in a similar position as we were under Calderwood. Lame duck manager unpopular with the support but Board not wanting to sack him early on. We'll limp along in much the same way as we've started as there is insufficient ability in the players brought in to play the type of football the manager proclaims he wants us playing.

He'll still be manager by Xmas unless he chucks it and resigns as I dont see Dempster sacking him. She is not one for admitting errors.



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I basically said the same on another thread.

Fifehibby74
24-08-2019, 06:51 PM
Win

Crab apple
24-08-2019, 06:57 PM
Nope, they won’t, it won’t make a difference.

Even if we’d won 2-1 today the feedback on here would have been the same.

Eye bleeding, slow, lack of passion etc etc. That’s all still there and the odd result papering over the cracks won’t cut it.

The club needs to make the change quickly and nip this is the bud.

Totally agree. It’s an easy soundbite to say fans are fickle but they can see when something isn’t working. Change needed but I think the board will let him see out the season.

Keith_M
24-08-2019, 06:57 PM
to get those who want him out back on side.

An improvement in the style of football?
A derby win?
A couple of exciting signings?
Beating Killie to get to Hampden?

Or is the situation completely unsalvageable in the eyes of some?



Sign the players that are quite obviously missing from our squad, e.g. a Defensive Midfielder
Play players in their correct positions on the pitch, like Allan in the centre of the park.
Completely change his instructions on the style of play so we don't have to watch eye-bleedingly dull football.
Sort out the obvious deficiencies in the defence.
Stop making strange substitutions, like when we're getting humped at Ibrox and have gone down to ten men, suddenly deciding it's a good idea to bring on an extra striker.
Stop wasting the club's money on players that don't look like they're ever going to be good enough for this level of football. IMHO, he's signed one decent player and the rest are dross.
Stop talking ******* about the way he intends to set up the team to play and promising things like "fitness levels never seen before"




Any idea what the are chances of that happening?

:dunno:

Heckys Wheel
24-08-2019, 07:00 PM
Resign - he’s a fraud, simple as. The sooner folk or more importantly the board realise this the better.


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This “fraud” patter is absolutely rotten. See it all over twitter as well.

number9dream
24-08-2019, 07:02 PM
Win

Simple as that.
Big improvement required but people looking in will be wondering why all the outrage after one defeat in eight games?
No way the board are moving to sack him any time soon.
Needs to find a system that has balance and our best players on the park - and quick. Doidge stays on the bench until he's earned a place.

gaz1875
24-08-2019, 07:02 PM
When he first came in after NL I remember thinking we have a manager playing players in the right positions and in a set formation. This season so far we have gone back to playing players out of position and no apparent formation. Is he playing his favourites just to give them games? Something I accused NL of doing.

Is It On....
24-08-2019, 07:03 PM
Statistics never lie? At home against relegation favourites St Johnstone and they have the better of the stats. I do hope this is a one-off but I doubt it.

I was winding up our neighbours when they drew at home with RC who had more possession and shots. Their forum was full of similar commentary on style of play, etc. I personally don't think either team should ever have less of the play and less shots attempted when playing at home against St Johnstone or Ross County.

That maybe arrogant but I am not saying we should always beat them just that they shouldn't have the better of the game. It's up to the manager to put it right, and for example, playing Scott Allan out of position does not inspire confidence that its going to happen.

BoltonHibee
24-08-2019, 07:06 PM
This “fraud” patter is absolutely rotten. See it all over twitter as well.

I’ve not seen twitter but I’ll be having a look shortly. My fraud comment is not patter, that’s exactly what I think he is. If you don’t like that fine.


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NOLA
24-08-2019, 07:18 PM
Sack him now. The fans have turned against him, there’s no way back.


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SMAXXA
24-08-2019, 07:19 PM
Sack him now. The fans have turned against him, there’s no way back.


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Minority or majority as certainly not all?

NOLA
24-08-2019, 07:29 PM
Minority or majority as certainly not all?

Maybe not all but certainly he can’t continue, grew up watching hibs under Lexo thinking surely this year he goes but he stuck around and we were poor for the majority of his tenure. Are we as a club confident in Heckingbottom? Writing is on the wall.


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HibeeHibernian4
24-08-2019, 07:39 PM
This “fraud” patter is absolutely rotten. See it all over twitter as well.

It's the calling card of people who don't have anything intelligent to offer to the debate.

If you think Heckingbottom's a bad manager and should go, you've got to have more to back that up with than "he's a fraud".

Keith_M
24-08-2019, 08:01 PM
It's the calling card of people who don't have anything intelligent to offer to the debate.

If you think Heckingbottom's a bad manager and should go, you've got to have more to back that up with than "he's a fraud".


How did you feel about my response to your question?

Unseen work
24-08-2019, 08:24 PM
He signed a 3 and a half year deal when he was appointed, he won’t be going anywhere.

Hibernia&Alba
24-08-2019, 08:26 PM
Hee neds to improve the defending as a team, be more tactically astute and improve the style of play. There is a lot wrong just now.

Greencore
24-08-2019, 08:27 PM
22437
Heckingbottom: "You fans don't know what you want! That's why you're still fans - 'cause you're stupid!" https://t.co/eQVViHr8i7

I'm_cabbaged
24-08-2019, 08:34 PM
He signed a 3 and a half year deal when he was appointed, he won’t be going anywhere.

A lot of supporters will though

Leith Green
24-08-2019, 08:53 PM
He signed a 3 and a half year deal when he was appointed, he won’t be going anywhere.

But surely his severance package was negotiated before he was appointed. Wasn't that where the appleton deal broke down. Can the club afford to sack him? Can the club afford not to sack him??

cabbageandribs1875
24-08-2019, 08:57 PM
He signed a 3 and a half year deal when he was appointed, he won’t be going anywhere.



because that's how it works in football of course

Paisley Hibby
24-08-2019, 11:16 PM
Heck just needs to find a formula that works in midfield. The defense are being over run and the ball is coming into and around the box far too often. We have far too many passengers in midfield and I just can't see where Scottie fits in if we stick with Mallan.Heck has to take some of the blame for players performances and the balance in midfield. Allan today may have been playing out of position but he was atrocious. Horgan looked like he had his laces tied together and Mallan is never a DM and looks so much better when he is higher up the park.

I am fairly neutral on Heck. I like what he says but there hasn't been enough evidence of his said plan on the park. His signings haven't been great, so far, but I don't think, on the whole, they are disastrous. Doidge has started slowly but there were decent signs today, Jackson looks OK, James looks decent and Newell hasn't been great but not played a huge amount and look at Horgan today if you want to see how poor wingers can be. Vela looks like he might do a job but is lacking fitness, we knew that. We also have SDG and Lewis far from fully match fit which was a big part of the problems today as the wingers were winning most of their 1 on 1s and there were far too many 1 on 1s as the midfield were not stopping the passes or even slowing them down. Our biggest problem is we lack legs in midfield just as we did when Heck took over. One the players brought in to remedy this has played a handful of games and the other just arrived and contributed 1 half time draw so far. He has only had a single window to deal with this issue. Rome wasn't built in a day.

The players played very poorly barring an odd few today. I don't think the shape helped and there did seem to be a lack of energy. Was it the shape, is it the motivation from the manager or just a bad day at the office for too many players, I suspect a mixture of all three with a dash of a Saints team who have a great record at ER recently. It's all too early to be sure for me but given the venom shown by some I doubt I'll have the chance to make my mind up before Heck is chased. That will of course cost a fortune and may be the start of years of issues.

Heck has found himself with a squad that was very unbalanced, lacking pace and motivation and had legends starting to feel the years in their legs. He has had one window and it isn't clicking just now. Saying that we got a point today at home to St Johnstone who scored very late to earn their point. On their last two visits with Lennon in charge they scored very late on both occasions for all three points. It is an improvement in result but the performance was poor. I don't think I would blame the manager for the subs but he has to take his share of the blame for St Js looking the better team at ER given the respective budgets.

I hope he goes on to be a successful manager but Hibs fans turn on managers very quickly and it usually comes down to style of football more than results, the two tend to go hand in hand though. As a support it does feel we are hoping the team fails so Heck gets emptied. That is not a support to me and the treatment Heck has received is ridiculous. Careful what you wish for as the last time the support behaved like this when a manager was playing workmanlike football but safely in the middle of the league we got Butcher. I fear the similar will happen again.

Excellent post. I hope the Board are thinking this way too.

snedzuk
25-08-2019, 12:05 AM
1. Fast flowing attacking football, with a cutting edge.
2. Take the fight to the OF
3. Win far more than we lose using the style outlined in #1
4. Inspire and connect with the fans in media communications.
5. Sign the players we actually need.
6. Sign players with pedigree at playing at an international level that we feel lucky to get.

That would do it for me.

Your No. 2 - McInnes interviewed after their 0-0 today said they have tried over 7 years to instill in Aberdeen 'the Old Firm mentality' - they go into every game expecting to win it. How very far we are away from that tonight.

snedzuk
25-08-2019, 12:07 AM
There is nothing he can do.

Today felt like championship under Stubbs. Soft goals and a team that doesn’t seem to believe in itself.

Talent is there, just not performing which comes back to the head coach.


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Except when Stubbs said 'we go again' I believed him

The Harp Awakes
25-08-2019, 12:13 AM
He signed a 3 and a half year deal when he was appointed, he won’t be going anywhere.

We're you at the game today mate? If you were you would have witnessed most of the stadium in uproar at the Manager's subs. The fans will dictate how long he is here particularly if the crowds continue to dwindle.

MrRobot
25-08-2019, 10:30 AM
1. Fast flowing attacking football, with a cutting edge.
2. Take the fight to the OF
3. Win far more than we lose using the style outlined in #1
4. Inspire and connect with the fans in media communications.
5. Sign the players we actually need.
6. Sign players with pedigree at playing at an international level that we feel lucky to get.

That would do it for me.

Number 6 is easier said than done, see Harry and Nelon last season. Couldn’t care if they are internationals or not, as long as they make the team better.

Agree with the rest.