Enough is Enough

[Fife-Hibee]

St Mirren, Sevco or St Johnstone?

We were garbage against St Mirren despite our laboured 1-0 win.
Although Sevco are a bigger club with more money/resources. A complete capsulation like that is never acceptable. They’re not Barcelona.
Even when we were 2-1 up today it didn’t feel like we were winning.

We’ve looked an utter shambles in 3/3 league games so far this season.

[FitbaFolkKen]

Sounds better when you do not say the teams we beat are mostly in lower leagues

It’s not a lie though is it?


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[FitbaFolkKen]

Deluded

Very good


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[FitbaFolkKen]

No excitement in 13.

No clue/system in 7.

There was a system today, the system changed to try and alter the game at 60 minutes.

If you can’t see that I would ask who doesn’t have a clue?


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[Daydreamer]

It's now 11 years since a first team player in the squad has either came through or been sold for money from the youth/development squad. In that time no player has came through the youth policy and played more than 150 games in that 11 years. The biggest players in that time have been Wotherspoon, Stanton and Booth and neither or any of these players in any of the people opinions I know who go to the games week in week out think that any of these players would be willing to propel Hibs in to any of the top four places but consistently the youth/development squad do not get any criticism on these threads on hibs. net. WHY.

The youth policy is a shambles and heads need to roll shortly. Some people will say Porteous will prove my theory wrong but where is he? If Porteous does eventually come through and prove me wrong I will be delighted but at this time I really have doubts that he will go on to be a first team regular playing 40 plus games a season.

East mains and a new indoor arena for what ????

[zitelli62]

After 40 years watching hibs this looks like alec Miller all over again I've been there seen it and done it this time I wont buy the t shirt once you lose the fans it only goes one way maybe not soon but it will happen.

[Silky]

How’s that then?

Maybe we find another Stubbs or Lennon? There are plenty better managers out there.

Are they available? Are they going to leave their jobs so early in the season to come to Hibs? And if they are not currently in a job are they really better? If they were, they'd be working.

[scooby]

No reading every comment but I can't believe a few games into a season folk are calling for the manager to go.

Modern day football fans for you. Just want instant success. Don't understand it takes a bit of time to build a team.

Oh and let's not even mentioned we have only lost one competitive game this season.

Just calm down ffs

I'm not sure if you've been to any games recently, but it's been absolutely dire, and has been since the split last season. The guy has a masters in bull**** but is being found out big time.
The board need to be brave and change things quickly, he's a dead man walking.

[ddoc]

I rarely post so expect this to go unnoticed. At what point in the last 50 years were we a shoe in for the points? I'm not suggesting that we've been brilliant recently but hounding the management at this point?

I also rarely post but it is hard to disagree with the many posters venting their spleen in regards to our performance this season to date. He got a lot of credit for getting us to where he did when he took over the sinking ship, but, from memory, our performance post split was mediocre at best. I have watched / listened to every game this season on Hibs TV and the best I can say is that we are less than impressive. Many poster have listed our perceived shortcoming / failures, and I agree that there have been many, but is the answer at this time a change in management. I am a fence sitter re this. One one hand I would be happy to see him go, on the other I reluctantly accept that he should be given to the end of the first round of games to prove he has got what it takes to get us up into the top four, and even as I write this I am doubting my sanity with what I have seen to date.

[Real Emerald]

I'm not sure if you've been to any games recently, but it's been absolutely dire, and has been since the split last season. The guy has a masters in bull**** but is being found out big time.
The board need to be brave and change things quickly, he's a dead man walking.

👍

[FitbaFolkKen]

After 40 years watching hibs this looks like alec Miller all over again I've been there seen it and done it this time I wont buy the t shirt once you lose the fans it only goes one way maybe not soon but it will happen.

If he wins us a cup I’m all in [emoji106]


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[#2 Double Tap]

Are they available? Are they going to leave their jobs so early in the season to come to Hibs? And if they are not currently in a job are they really better? If they were, they'd be working.

well with that logic we should never have hired the guy in charge at the moment.

not every unemployed manager has been sacked or is useless.

recent example in scotland is Steve Clarke.

[Real Emerald]

I also rarely post but it is hard to disagree with the many posters venting their spleen in regards to our performance this season to date. He got a lot of credit for getting us to where he did when he took over the sinking ship, but, from memory, our performance post split was mediocre at best. I have watched / listened to every game this season on Hibs TV and the best I can say is that we are less than impressive. Many poster have listed our perceived shortcoming / failures, and I agree that there have been many, but is the answer at this time a change in management. I am a fence sitter re this. One one hand I would be happy to see him go, on the other I reluctantly accept that he should be given to the end of the first round of games to prove he has got what it takes to get us up into the top four, and even as I write this I am doubting my sanity with what I have seen to date.

I presume you can’t go to the games but if you had been there you would definitely not be sitting on the fence. It’s like someone has pulled the plug at ER and all the progress and feel good factor has washed down the drain. It’s really sad considering our brilliant progress of late.

[gramskiwood]

Spot on. The levels of hysteria are unbelievable. We have a strong squad better than everyone apart from Celtic and Rangers and on a par with the Dons and them across the road.

Still confident we’ll finish in third

Do you go to the games? If we continue to play like this we will be bottom six at best.

[green day]

I have supported this guy since day1, but this was it.

Any semi competent east senior manager would have put a team and subbies better than that today.

His time is up, and anyone thinking "let's give him til the end of q1" is delusional.

[The 90+2]

Are they available? Are they going to leave their jobs so early in the season to come to Hibs? And if they are not currently in a job are they really better? If they were, they'd be working.

Take Stubbs back tomorrow.

[scooby]

I presume you can’t go to the games but if you had been there you would definitely not be sitting on the fence. It’s like someone has pulled the plug at ER and all the progress and feel good factor has washed down the drain. It’s really sad considering our brilliant progress of late.

👍

[The Harp Awakes]

Today was my final straw...

I love Hibernian FC, however today was awful!

Paul Heckingbottom, if you read this, please just go!

The atmosphere was toxic, tactics were woeful and more of a concern was that the feel good feeling is well and truly gone!

The whole stadium knew St Johnstone would equalise today - that makes the managers incompetence more frustrating.

Personally, I want him out....before it’s too late!!

Agreed. Calderwood mark 2. If the Board have got guts he'll be history.

[ddoc]

I presume you can’t go to the games but if you had been there you would definitely not be sitting on the fence. It’s like someone has pulled the plug at ER and all the progress and feel good factor has washed down the drain. It’s really sad considering our brilliant progress of late.

From the Blue Mountains in New South Wales my actual game time is limited to my, not very frequent, trips back to Leith. But I drag my sorry butt out of bed to tune in on Hibs TV, and my wife wonders why I bother as I, not as quietly as I think, curse away as I get back into bed.

[Criswell]

Sad to say but we have regressed back to being "Soft" again. A club who has average home gates of just over 2 thousand came to ER and totally bossed us. I've seen enough of this team already to suggest we will struggle even to achieve top six this season in it's present form.
Is there any money available to bring in any more signings? If there is, can Heckingbottom bring in players that can improve the playing squad? If not the danger signs are there.

[Real Emerald]

From the Blue Mountains in New South Wales my actual game time is limited to my, not very frequent, trips back to Leith. But I drag my sorry butt out of bed to tune in on Hibs TV, and my wife wonders why I bother as I, not as quietly as I think, curse away as I get back into bed.

Well done you 👍. It’s hard to gauge the atmosphere thing from afar but we really had things rocking in the past few seasons and despite being an age brought up with the Tornadoes I thought we for once had made the leap. Unfortunately as is normal with Hibs we’ve gone backwards. We still have time to hang on to the large ST support but decisions from the board are crucial. Well done for your support from afar 👍👍

[WhileTheChief..]

Are they available? Are they going to leave their jobs so early in the season to come to Hibs? And if they are not currently in a job are they really better? If they were, they'd be working.

So all the out of work managers are worse than PH? I seriously doubt that.

[MWHIBBIES]

Sad to say but we have regressed back to being "Soft" again. A club who has average home gates of just over 2 thousand came to ER and totally bossed us. I've seen enough of this team already to suggest we will struggle even to achieve top six this season in it's present form.
Is there any money available to bring in any more signings? If there is, can Heckingbottom bring in players that can improve the playing squad? If not the danger signs are there.
Hamilton bossed us at home the season we finished 4th.
One game means nothing, we aren't back to being soft because of one average performance. We've not been great and it could be a rough season but today alone isn't some great sign of anything.

[Ozyhibby]

Hamilton bossed us at home the season we finished 4th.
One game means nothing, we aren't back to being soft because of one average performance. We've not been great and it could be a rough season but today alone isn't some great sign of anything.

It’s not one game though is it? It’s all pre season, the league cup games and every league game so far.


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[MWHIBBIES]

It’s not one game though is it? It’s all pre season, the league cup games and every league game so far.


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It was one and a half league cup games, Elgin and Arbroath were both good performances.

We haven't been great in the league, I agree, but we very nearly won today and have a winnable league cup quarter.

The reaction has honestly been insane on here considering what has actually happened.

[Hibernia&Alba]

It was one and a half league cup games, Elgin and Arbroath were both good performances.

We haven't been great in the league, I agree, but we very nearly won today and have a winnable league cup quarter.

The reaction has honestly been insane on here considering what has actually happened.

If we don't look good against Elgin and Arbroath, we are in deep excrement. I do agree with you in relation to being measured just now, but it's a worrying situation nonetheless.

[Ozyhibby]

It was one and a half league cup games, Elgin and Arbroath were both good performances.

We haven't been great in the league, I agree, but we very nearly won today and have a winnable league cup quarter.

The reaction has honestly been insane on here considering what has actually happened.

You saw that today. The players were going through the motions. We’ve seen this movie before. And it’s been happening for about 7 or 8 games now.
There is no way back now. He won’t recover this situation because the players have no clue what they were meant to be doing out there.
Of course we have a winnable quarter, because we are one of the top clubs in Scotland. They should always be winnable. It’s not any measure of success though.
The only defence of Heckingbottom seems to be he needs more time but I haven’t seen for what? What is his style of play going to be? Is it going to be sitting back in two banks of four and trying to counter attack? Because even if he could make a success of that, and I don’t think he can, it’s not something I would want to watch anyway.
I don’t really want to argue his merits to be honest because he is now a dead man walking anyway. It’s just a matter of time. He won’t recover from this because the players are not on board with whatever it is he thinks he is doing.


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[Real Emerald]

You saw that today. The players were going through the motions. We’ve seen this movie before. And it’s been happening for about 7 or 8 games now.
There is no way back now. He won’t recover this situation because the players have no clue what they were meant to be doing out there.
Of course we have a winnable quarter, because we are one of the top clubs in Scotland. They should always be winnable. It’s not any measure of success though.
The only defence of Heckingbottom seems to be he needs more time but I haven’t seen for what? What is his style of play going to be? Is it going to be sitting back in two banks of four and trying to counter attack? Because even if he could make a success of that, and I don’t think he can, it’s not something I would want to watch anyway.
I don’t really want to argue his merits to be honest because he is now a dead man walking anyway. It’s just a matter of time. He won’t recover from this because the players are not on board with whatever it is he thinks he is doing.


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👍👍

[Hibernia&Alba]

**** off you Jambo ****

Steady on, fella. MW is no Jambo; let's be polite.

[scotiaf]

Watching yesterday’s game was not fun and we almost stole 3 points. However we have signed a lot of players and he’s still working out the right mix and match for the team. I can’t believe there is so much hatred after 3 games this season. He gets till Xmas unless there is a car crash 5 results ahead.

[SanFranHibs]

I certainly am not calling for PH's sacking but my natural optimism when new managers/players come took a bit of a knock reading the interview posted here when he said, '"We are drawing at home and we will draw many more at home this season, without a doubt....". I am hard pressed to see his high press at this moment.

I was feeling quite good after our latest signing, but Scott Allan played too wide and blowing a lead twice in this game followed by the manager forecasting MANY MORE draws at home certainly took the shine off my Saturday.

[Onion]

I certainly am not calling for PH's sacking but my natural optimism when new managers/players come took a bit of a knock reading the interview posted here when he said, '"We are drawing at home and we will draw many more at home this season, without a doubt....". I am hard pressed to see his high press at this moment.

I was feeling quite good after our latest signing, but Scott Allan played too wide and blowing a lead twice in this game followed by the manager forecasting MANY MORE draws at home certainly took the shine off my Saturday.

Frightening. His comments about the fans being responsible for us losing goals and him threatening to take Allan off again in the future are naive in the extreme (whether he believes it or not). He appears to be doing everything he can to get under the fans skin.

All he needs now is a sweetie bag to reveal his true identity :wink:

[FitbaFolkKen]

Frightening. His comments about the fans being responsible for us losing goals and him threatening to take Allan off again in the future are naive in the extreme (whether he believes it or not). He appears to be doing everything he can to get under the fans skin.

All he needs now is a sweetie bag to reveal his true identity :wink:

He actually said Allan was carrying a knock and he would make subs he thought were right. He also said that the players need to be tougher to deal with the anxiety of the crowd when it is there.


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[CRAZYHIBBY]

I said at the start of the season he would be out after 15 games....wasnt being a smart arse, i just dont feel his style of play suits hibs or the fans and im Not the only one seeing it.

[Unseen work]

He actually said Allan was carrying a knock and he would make subs he thought were right. He also said that the players need to be tougher to deal with the anxiety of the crowd when it is there.


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Crazy how some are trying to twist his words.

[MrSmith]

I said at the start of the season he would be out after 15 games....wasnt being a smart arse, i just dont feel his style of play suits hibs or the fans and im Not the only one seeing it.
Spot on 👍 I actually said this to my buddy after the last Killie game at ER. What an awful match that was.

[flash]

Frightening. His comments about the fans being responsible for us losing goals and him threatening to take Allan off again in the future are naive in the extreme (whether he believes it or not). He appears to be doing everything he can to get under the fans skin.

All he needs now is a sweetie bag to reveal his true identity :wink:

That's not really what he said regarding the fans though is it?

[matty_f]

Frightening. His comments about the fans being responsible for us losing goals and him threatening to take Allan off again in the future are naive in the extreme (whether he believes it or not). He appears to be doing everything he can to get under the fans skin.

All he needs now is a sweetie bag to reveal his true identity :wink:

He never said the fans were responsible for us losing goals, not even close.

It wasn’t a threat about taking Allan off, l what he said was that, like any player, he’s not likely to get 90 minutes every game so will be subbed again in the future.

And though you didn’t mention it, a poster above was worried that Heckinbottom said we would have more draws at home. That’s not in the slightest bit frightening, it’s just realistic.

I’m not defending Heckinbottom here, but there’s some amount of hysteria going on and seemingly rational people are losing their head at comments, which in context, are perfectly reasonable ones to make.

[sleeping giant]

He never said the fans were responsible for us losing goals, not even close.

It wasn’t a threat about taking Allan off, l what he said was that, like any player, he’s not likely to get 90 minutes every game so will be subbed again in the future.

And though you didn’t mention it, a poster above was getting frightened (!) that Heckinbottom said we would have more draws at home. That’s not in the slightest bit frightening, it’s just realistic.

I’m not defending Heckinbottom here, but there’s some amount of hysteria going on and seemingly rational people are losing their head at comments, which in context, are perfectly reasonable ones to make.

This has been the best post on here since yesterday.
Mass hysteria with folk picking apart everything he has said and twisting it like a bunch of bairns.

Twitter and Facebook are the same. Grown men greerting their eyes out because the manager said the atmosphere in tbe stadium affected the players.

Its cringeworthy stuff reading it.

[SeanWilson]

Hibs support is, and for the most part, always has been, the most fickle, most self loathing, predictable, moaning support ever.

See ***** like this? Boils my pish. We pay money to support our football club. We have a decent budget, we have a massive stadium, we have a massive support, we are well within our rights to expect to be 3rd or 4th best in this tiny wee country. We are well within our rights to call it as we see it and if anyone thinks that this utter pish is acceptable, they're off their ****ing heads.

[bawheid]

This has been the best post on here since yesterday.
Mass hysteria with folk picking apart everything he has said and twisting it like a bunch of bairns.

Twitter and Facebook are the same. Grown men greerting their eyes out because the manager said the atmosphere in tbe stadium affected the players.

Its cringeworthy stuff reading it.

Sadly, the internet has bred a generation of me me me a*seholes. Falling over each other to be proven right and have said it first.

[Phil MaGlass]

Ah cannae believe ahm no goin mad after yesterdays result, everyones goin intae overdrive and insulting each other . Thats not on, thats my job, so can everyone just shut the @#$& up and go oot intae the warm weather and catch a bit of fresh air.

Huv tae say, this sites been a laugh for the last wee while.
Take a step back folks and calm the @#$& doon,:wink:

[The Leith Dutch]

They were also booing the other sub at the time (can’t actually remember who it was now).

I don't think anyone was booing the players going off or coming on.
They were booing in frustration at the manager's decisions which are increasingly being viewed as clueless.

For the record - I'm almost always against booing directed towards the team or club but I can completely get why it happened in this scenario.
I think taking Allan off was a poor decision and I think playing Allan where he's playing him is a poor tactical decision.

[jacomo]

It was one and a half league cup games, Elgin and Arbroath were both good performances.

We haven't been great in the league, I agree, but we very nearly won today and have a winnable league cup quarter.

The reaction has honestly been insane on here considering what has actually happened.


The mood at the stadium yesterday seemed to be initially supportive and then increasingly unimpressed. Much the same as here.

I’m not calling for the manager’s head but I’m far from reassured that we are on the right path. Regardless of the result yesterday I expected to see clear progress in terms of how he wants us to play. I didn’t.

[blackpoolhibs]

Correct me if I'm wrong but is he not employed as a coach as the Hibs set up does not have a managerial position. Even Neil Lennon was a coach.

Unless you want to argue on semantics, I'm pretty sure its the manager who picks the team and employs the tactics needed to force a draw against the mighty St Johnstone?

[bawheid]

Unless you want to argue on semantics, I'm pretty sure its the manager who picks the team and employs the tactics needed to force a draw against the mighty St Johnstone?

Is that the same mighty St Johnstone that have won their previous two league games at Easter Road or a different one?

[The 90+2]

Is that the same mighty St Johnstone that have won their previous two league games at Easter Road or a different one?

Yep, the same St Johnstone who lost 7 goals to Celtic, got gubbed at home to Ross County and lost to Forfar and Montrose in the cup. That same team with same players outplayed us yesterday regardless of how they performed in previous seasons.

[SRHibs]

See ***** like this? Boils my pish. We pay money to support our football club. We have a decent budget, we have a massive stadium, we have a massive support, we are well within our rights to expect to be 3rd or 4th best in this tiny wee country. We are well within our rights to call it as we see it and if anyone thinks that this utter pish is acceptable, they're off their ****ing heads.

But we are 3 games into the season. We can still finish 3rd or 4th. We've not had a flying start to the season but 4 points is hardly a disaster.

The quoted poster is not wrong. The hysteria on this place is absolutely mental. Entertaining, mind you.

[green day]

Is that the same mighty St Johnstone that have won their previous two league games at Easter Road or a different one?

Without wanting to start an argument, St J record against us demonstrates that we have been underperforming massively and that needs to change.

We cant use their previous games as a yardstick of where we "should be".

Its been said many times before, regardless of any tweaks, our budget will be maybe 3 times that of St J, Hamilton, St Mirren - we should be blowing these teams away at home and trying to snatch what we can v Celtic / Rangers and competing fully with Hearts and Aberdeen.

That we dont even look like taking points from the crap teams tells you everything.

We are in real bother and it needs addressing - and if that means Hecky goes, then so be it. We simply cant start dropping down the league as we are not equipped for a dogfight.

[bawheid]

Yep, the same St Johnstone who lost 7 goals to Celtic, got gubbed at home to Ross County and lost to Forfar and Montrose in the cup. That same team with same players outplayed us yesterday regardless of how they performed in previous seasons.

St Johnstone have spells like the one you describe regularly. They always turn it around. They’ll get points at other venues too.

[blackpoolhibs]

Is that the same mighty St Johnstone that have won their previous two league games at Easter Road or a different one?

The very same one, i suppose things are better now then now we are getting a result against them now.:rolleyes:

[The 90+2]

St Johnstone have spells like the one you describe regularly. They always turn it around. They’ll get points at other venues too.

I can’t remember them losing to lower leave part timers in recent seasons and also usually quite solid against Celtic. They have been a shambles this season until they rock up to Easter Road and play our jumble sale side.

[bawheid]

Without wanting to start an argument, St J record against us demonstrates that we have been underperforming massively and that needs to change.

We cant use their previous games as a yardstick of where we "should be".

Its been said many times before, regardless of any tweaks, our budget will be maybe 3 times that of St J, Hamilton, St Mirren - we should be blowing these teams away at home and trying to snatch what we can v Celtic / Rangers and competing fully with Hearts and Aberdeen.

That we dont even look like taking points from the crap teams tells you everything.

We are in real bother and it needs addressing - and if that means Hecky goes, then so be it. We simply cant start dropping down the league as we are not equipped for a dogfight.

Dropping down the league? The league is only three games old. It’s a waste of time even looking at the table just now because it changes dramatically with every set of fixtures. For example, if we’d held on yesterday we would have been third. As it is we’re seventh.

[bawheid]

The very same one, i suppose things are better now then now we are getting a result against them now.:rolleyes:

Not necessarily, but at the same time it’s not yet the end of the world.

[bawheid]

I can’t remember them losing to lower leave part timers in recent seasons and also usually quite solid against Celtic. They have been a shambles this season until they rock up to Easter Road and play our jumble sale side.

Eh....

18/19 season.

Celtic 5-0 St Johnstone
St Johnstone 0-6 Celtic

[The 90+2]

Dropping down the league? The league is only three games old. It’s a waste of time even looking at the table just now because it changes dramatically with every set of fixtures. For example, if we’d held on yesterday we would have been third. As it is we’re seventh.

Everyone can see how alarming it is and predictable it’s going to be. Our next here fixtures are massive now.

[The 90+2]

Eh....

18/19 season.

Celtic 5-0 St Johnstone
St Johnstone 0-6 Celtic

The same season they made the league cup quarters not dumped out by part timers.

[bawheid]

Everyone can see how alarming it is and predictable it’s going to be. Our next here fixtures are massive now.

As I said on another thread.

He’ll be judged by his results in the due course of time. I’ll be supporting him and the team in the meantime.

[bawheid]

The same season they made the league cup quarters not dumped out by part timers.

The point is that they have poor spells regularly. They had one earlier this season.

[Crab apple]

Not necessarily, but at the same time it’s not yet the end of the world.

Regardless whether this year or last year I think it’s reasonable to expect us to beat St Johnstone at home. The fact that we haven’t means questions should be asked.

[bawheid]

Regardless whether this year or last year I think it’s reasonable to expect us to beat St Johnstone at home. The fact that we haven’t means questions should be asked.

If you look at budgets then we should generally beat St Johnstone, and finish above them. We don’t always beat them, but we generally finish above them.

[NAE NOOKIE]

It was one and a half league cup games, Elgin and Arbroath were both good performances.

We haven't been great in the league, I agree, but we very nearly won today and have a winnable league cup quarter.

The reaction has honestly been insane on here considering what has actually happened.

Its not the results that are the real issue. Historically Hibs get a spanking at least once every 5 years or so at Ibrox or Parkhead and even decent Hibs teams have stuttered at home to teams we would hope / expect to be beating.

The issue is the manner in which we are handing the initiative to our opponents … in yesterday's game and to a lesser extent against St Mirren we either by accident or design allowed both our opponents at home in the league to take control of the game, its not a good sign and a lot of us have been over the course before with this, when you see a Hibs team playing like that it never ever has a good long term outcome.

On top of that the team is playing absolutely contrary to the way the manager said he was going to, from the beginning it was his mantra … "play a high pressing game". Well where is it? … from the very beginning that 'high press' consisted of 9 men in our own half against Celtic with a forward and midfielder trying to close down 4 defenders who passed around them easily … he continued that in every big game and it seems has now extended that to whoever we play this season.

At every opposition free kick and corner both against St Mirren and St Johnstone we left nobody up the pitch, with no out ball if you clear it you immediately get it coming back at you.

At yesterday's game it became obvious that what I thought against St Mirren was true, that we are competing, but we aren't playing any football .. where the hell is the passing movement through midfield opening up the chance for a shot from the edge of the box? Where the hell is the quick passing passage of play to spring a wide player in behind? I see very little of that.

We are slow, predictable, unimaginative and worse boring to watch … Saturday was a beautiful day and a 3pm Saturday kick off .. 15,000 + is a good crowd, but it was less than the last home game which had a similar away support and if we continue to serve up this type of game the crowds will diminish without a doubt.

Motherwell are up next and they are in decent form, followed by Killie away who aren't. If we come away from these fixtures with nowt, which looks likely on form like yesterday, and follow that up with a defeat at home to Hearts Heckingbottom will lose the support totally.

[jacomo]

Its not the results that are the real issue. Historically Hibs get a spanking at least once every 5 years or so at Ibrox or Parkhead and even decent Hibs teams have stuttered at home to teams we would hope / expect to be beating.

The issue is the manner in which we are handing the initiative to our opponents … in yesterday's game and to a lesser extent against St Mirren we either by accident or design allowed both our opponents at home in the league to take control of the game, its not a good sign and a lot of us have been over the course before with this, when you see a Hibs team playing like that it never ever has a good long term outcome.

On top of that the team is playing absolutely contrary to the way the manager said he was going to, from the beginning it was his mantra … "play a high pressing game". Well where is it? … from the very beginning that 'high press' consisted of 9 men in our own half against Celtic with a forward and midfielder trying to close down 4 defenders who passed around them easily … he continued that in every big game and it seems has now extended that to whoever we play this season.

At every opposition free kick and corner both against St Mirren and St Johnstone we left nobody up the pitch, with no out ball if you clear it you immediately get it coming back at you.

At yesterday's game it became obvious that what I thought against St Mirren was true, that we are competing, but we aren't playing any football .. where the hell is the passing movement through midfield opening up the chance for a shot from the edge of the box? Where the hell is the quick passing passage of play to spring a wide player in behind? I see very little of that.

We are slow, predictable, unimaginative and worse boring to watch … Saturday was a beautiful day and a 3pm Saturday kick off .. 15,000 + is a good crowd, but it was less than the last home game which had a similar away support and if we continue to serve up this type of game the crowds will diminish without a doubt.

Motherwell are up next and they are in decent form, followed by Killie away who aren't. If we come away from these fixtures with nowt, which looks likely on form like yesterday, and follow that up with a defeat at home to Hearts Heckingbottom will lose the support totally.


Good rational assessment.

There were a number of times yesterday where St Johnstone passed the ball back to their defence and instead of pressing them we dropped off. In midfield we were trying to win individual battles rather than hunting in packs.

I looked at the bench, expecting to see our manager - given what he has said - giving it the full Klopp. But he just stood with his arms folded as if everything was going to plan.

[Lago]

Unless you want to argue on semantics, I'm pretty sure its the manager who picks the team and employs the tactics needed to force a draw against the mighty St Johnstone?
I see semantics being argued on here daily not least by you.

[BILLYHIBS]

The best football I have seen at Easter Road in many a year was the second half of Neil Lennon’s second season

Now that was a high press

Ultimately ended in glorious failure but was exciting to watch

A proverbial roller coaster ride

Seems like a long time ago now and far removed from what is being served up now

[The Leith Dutch]

The best football I have seen at Easter Road in many a year was the second half of Neil Lennon’s second season

Now that was a high press

Ultimately ended in glorious failure but was exciting to watch

A proverbial roller coaster ride

Seems like a long time ago now and far removed from what is being served up now

That was some cracking stuff to be sure.

I'm struggling to remember us ever having a good second half of the season other than that.
I recall Yogi's team having a blinding first half of the season.

I suspect if you stiched those two half seasons together you'd have the SPL trophy in the cabinet ;)

[blackpoolhibs]

I see semantics being argued on here daily not least by you.

Ah right, so its semantics that are the reason we couldn't win yesterday. :rolleyes:

[BILLYHIBS]

That was some cracking stuff to be sure.

I'm struggling to remember us ever having a good second half of the season other than that.
I recall Yogi's team having a blinding first half of the season.

I suspect if you stiched those two half seasons together you'd have the SPL trophy in the cabinet ;)
I have watched HIBS for over fifty years and historically our title challenge is well and truly forgotten about come the Spring

I naively thought with Heckys high press a resurgent Flo and Scott Allan and Heckys new recruits we would see a return to those heady days but with each passing week it is looking more and more unlikely as we sit far too deep inviting more and more pressure on ourselves and players looking to the bench for answers

I have to say as a HIBS supporter I always expect to beat Celtic The Rangers Hearts and Aberdeen at home I do not think Hecky sees it that way he is far too careful which usually results in a defeat or a draw

[DH1875]

I think he's just your typical English man really. Totally underestimated us/size of the job, the league and Scottish football in general.

[Real Emerald]

I think he's just your typical English man really. Totally underestimated us/size of the job, the league and Scottish football in general.

Yes, the difference with Stubbs and Mowbray is that they both played in Scotland and knew what the league and passions were all about.

[DH1875]

I have watched HIBS for over fifty years and historically our title challenge is well and truly forgotten about come the Spring

I naively thought with Heckys high press a resurgent Flo and Scott Allan and Heckys new recruits we would see a return to those heady days but with each passing week it is looking more and more unlikely as we sit far too deep inviting more and more pressure on ourselves and players looking to the bench for answers

I have to say as a HIBS supporter I always expect to beat Celtic The Rangers Hearts and Aberdeen at home I do not think Hecky sees it that way he is far too careful which usually results in a defeat or a draw

IF and at this stage its still an IF he decides to try and sit in at home and try to snatch a point in these games then he really can do one.

[The Leith Dutch]

IF and at this stage its still an IF he decides to try and sit in at home and try to snatch a point in these games then he really can do one.

With the caveat NL had to go, I felt for most of his tenure that the manager, the team and the opposition in OF games always went in feeling we could win.

[hibeerealist]

But we are 3 games into the season. We can still finish 3rd or 4th. We've not had a flying start to the season but 4 points is hardly a disaster.

The quoted poster is not wrong. The hysteria on this place is absolutely mental. Entertaining, mind you.

No chance of 3rd or 4th playing as we are and that is probably in the minds of the many fans who are unhappy.

[Heedersnvolleys]

Take Stubbs back tomorrow.

Silly

[ahibby]

It’s only a 2-2 draw unluckily. People need to chill.

Agreed but the result isnt the concern its the performance that is.

[Ozyhibby]

Its not the results that are the real issue. Historically Hibs get a spanking at least once every 5 years or so at Ibrox or Parkhead and even decent Hibs teams have stuttered at home to teams we would hope / expect to be beating.

The issue is the manner in which we are handing the initiative to our opponents … in yesterday's game and to a lesser extent against St Mirren we either by accident or design allowed both our opponents at home in the league to take control of the game, its not a good sign and a lot of us have been over the course before with this, when you see a Hibs team playing like that it never ever has a good long term outcome.

On top of that the team is playing absolutely contrary to the way the manager said he was going to, from the beginning it was his mantra … "play a high pressing game". Well where is it? … from the very beginning that 'high press' consisted of 9 men in our own half against Celtic with a forward and midfielder trying to close down 4 defenders who passed around them easily … he continued that in every big game and it seems has now extended that to whoever we play this season.

At every opposition free kick and corner both against St Mirren and St Johnstone we left nobody up the pitch, with no out ball if you clear it you immediately get it coming back at you.

At yesterday's game it became obvious that what I thought against St Mirren was true, that we are competing, but we aren't playing any football .. where the hell is the passing movement through midfield opening up the chance for a shot from the edge of the box? Where the hell is the quick passing passage of play to spring a wide player in behind? I see very little of that.

We are slow, predictable, unimaginative and worse boring to watch … Saturday was a beautiful day and a 3pm Saturday kick off .. 15,000 + is a good crowd, but it was less than the last home game which had a similar away support and if we continue to serve up this type of game the crowds will diminish without a doubt.

Motherwell are up next and they are in decent form, followed by Killie away who aren't. If we come away from these fixtures with nowt, which looks likely on form like yesterday, and follow that up with a defeat at home to Hearts Heckingbottom will lose the support totally.

[emoji106]
100% it’s not the results. It’s the dreadful play that is going to lead to worsening results. Up til now, considering how bad we look, I would say the results have been good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Speedway]

With the caveat NL had to go, I felt for most of his tenure that the manager, the team and the opposition in OF games always went in feeling we could win.

And in most cases, the opposition was very wary of us.

[Franck Stanton]

Silly

No it isn't.

[truehibernian]

Not isn't.

I'd take Stubbs and Doolan back in a heartbeat :aok:

[scooby]

Its not the results that are the real issue. Historically Hibs get a spanking at least once every 5 years or so at Ibrox or Parkhead and even decent Hibs teams have stuttered at home to teams we would hope / expect to be beating.

The issue is the manner in which we are handing the initiative to our opponents … in yesterday's game and to a lesser extent against St Mirren we either by accident or design allowed both our opponents at home in the league to take control of the game, its not a good sign and a lot of us have been over the course before with this, when you see a Hibs team playing like that it never ever has a good long term outcome.

On top of that the team is playing absolutely contrary to the way the manager said he was going to, from the beginning it was his mantra … "play a high pressing game". Well where is it? … from the very beginning that 'high press' consisted of 9 men in our own half against Celtic with a forward and midfielder trying to close down 4 defenders who passed around them easily … he continued that in every big game and it seems has now extended that to whoever we play this season.

At every opposition free kick and corner both against St Mirren and St Johnstone we left nobody up the pitch, with no out ball if you clear it you immediately get it coming back at you.

At yesterday's game it became obvious that what I thought against St Mirren was true, that we are competing, but we aren't playing any football .. where the hell is the passing movement through midfield opening up the chance for a shot from the edge of the box? Where the hell is the quick passing passage of play to spring a wide player in behind? I see very little of that.

We are slow, predictable, unimaginative and worse boring to watch … Saturday was a beautiful day and a 3pm Saturday kick off .. 15,000 + is a good crowd, but it was less than the last home game which had a similar away support and if we continue to serve up this type of game the crowds will diminish without a doubt.

Motherwell are up next and they are in decent form, followed by Killie away who aren't. If we come away from these fixtures with nowt, which looks likely on form like yesterday, and follow that up with a defeat at home to Hearts Heckingbottom will lose the support totally.

Excellent assessment of where we are, and make no mistake, we're in trouble. 👍

[huggie1875]

It’s only a 2-2 draw unluckily. People need to chill.

we were lucky to get a draw and we have not performed well in any of our games

[huggie1875]

To make a point about our fans being moaning *******s. Any other elementary things I can explain for you?

if you think we are not happy cause we expect to make the champions league you are the most deluded guy on here
we should expect a lot better at home to St J

[huggie1875]

Hamilton bossed us at home the season we finished 4th.
One game means nothing, we aren't back to being soft because of one average performance. We've not been great and it could be a rough season but today alone isn't some great sign of anything.

but its not 1 game we haven't turned up in ANY of our games

[Golden Bear]

Its not the results that are the real issue. Historically Hibs get a spanking at least once every 5 years or so at Ibrox or Parkhead and even decent Hibs teams have stuttered at home to teams we would hope / expect to be beating.

The issue is the manner in which we are handing the initiative to our opponents … in yesterday's game and to a lesser extent against St Mirren we either by accident or design allowed both our opponents at home in the league to take control of the game, its not a good sign and a lot of us have been over the course before with this, when you see a Hibs team playing like that it never ever has a good long term outcome.

On top of that the team is playing absolutely contrary to the way the manager said he was going to, from the beginning it was his mantra … "play a high pressing game". Well where is it? … from the very beginning that 'high press' consisted of 9 men in our own half against Celtic with a forward and midfielder trying to close down 4 defenders who passed around them easily … he continued that in every big game and it seems has now extended that to whoever we play this season.

At every opposition free kick and corner both against St Mirren and St Johnstone we left nobody up the pitch, with no out ball if you clear it you immediately get it coming back at you.

At yesterday's game it became obvious that what I thought against St Mirren was true, that we are competing, but we aren't playing any football .. where the hell is the passing movement through midfield opening up the chance for a shot from the edge of the box? Where the hell is the quick passing passage of play to spring a wide player in behind? I see very little of that.

We are slow, predictable, unimaginative and worse boring to watch … Saturday was a beautiful day and a 3pm Saturday kick off .. 15,000 + is a good crowd, but it was less than the last home game which had a similar away support and if we continue to serve up this type of game the crowds will diminish without a doubt.

Motherwell are up next and they are in decent form, followed by Killie away who aren't. If we come away from these fixtures with nowt, which looks likely on form like yesterday, and follow that up with a defeat at home to Hearts Heckingbottom will lose the support totally.

:top marks

All very true, I don't think there's a word in there which any rational person could disagree with. I would only add that on the evidence so far, if push comes to shove later on in the season then I doubt if the present group of players have the bottle to battle their way out of trouble.

[Onceinawhile]

we were lucky to get a draw and we have not performed well in any of our games

St Johnstone equalised with the last kick (head) of the ball. We weren't lucky to get a draw at all.

St Johnstone had 2 shots on target more than us. They may have had a lot more shots, but our defensive structure made sure they were taken from poor positions and therefore unlikely to hit the target.

[MWHIBBIES]

but its not 1 game we haven't turned up in ANY of our games

Rubbish. We won 5 of them so we turned up in at least 5 FFS

[scooby]

St Johnstone equalised with the last kick (head) of the ball. We weren't lucky to get a draw at all.

St Johnstone had 2 shots on target more than us. They may have had a lot more shots, but our defensive structure made sure they were taken from poor positions and therefore unlikely to hit the target.

But the flip side is that the football we've been playing is eye bleeding, slow and boring. Can't remember the last time I was excited about going to a game, never mind anything happening on the pitch to get me out my seat.

According to Hecky our players are experiencing new levels of fitness and playing high press football. What a f****** joke, it couldn't be more pedestrian.

GET THE CLOWN OUT OF OUR CLUB

[flash]

But the flip side is that the football we've been playing is eye bleeding, slow and boring. Can't remember the last time I was excited about going to a game, never mind anything happening on the pitch to get me out my seat.

According to Hecky our players are experiencing new levels of fitness and playing high press football. What a f****** joke, it couldn't be more pedestrian.

GET THE CLOWN OUT OF OUR CLUB

No need.

[Onceinawhile]

But the flip side is that the football we've been playing is eye bleeding, slow and boring. Can't remember the last time I was excited about going to a game, never mind anything happening on the pitch to get me out my seat.

According to Hecky our players are experiencing new levels of fitness and playing high press football. What a f****** joke, it couldn't be more pedestrian.

GET THE CLOWN OUT OF OUR CLUB

What about our 2nd goal on Saturday?

I don't disagree it's gone downhill from the halycon days of losing 1-0 to st johnstone at Easter Road last season, but there's still glimpses of good football.

[Smartie]

St Johnstone equalised with the last kick (head) of the ball. We weren't lucky to get a draw at all.

St Johnstone had 2 shots on target more than us. They may have had a lot more shots, but our defensive structure made sure they were taken from poor positions and therefore unlikely to hit the target.

They horsed us for the entire second half.

We were lucky it took them so long to get the equaliser that there wasn't enough time for them to get their deserved winner.

[J-C]

They horsed us for the entire second half.

We were lucky it took them so long to get the equaliser that there wasn't enough time for them to get their deserved winner.


Michael Stewart said yesterday we were very poor and St Johnstone were by far the better team and deserved the win.

[Onceinawhile]

They horsed us for the entire second half.

We were lucky it took them so long to get the equaliser that there wasn't enough time for them to get their deserved winner.

5 shots on target compared to 3 is not, in any way a horsing.

Rocky barely had to work.

I'm not saying the performance was good enough or that I enjoyed the game - it wasn't and I didn't. But i don't buy the line that we should have been hammered.

[Speedway]

Fair play to Jackson.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/latest-hibs-news/adam-jackson-refutes-head-coach-s-claim-and-says-hibs-can-deal-with-boos-1-4990725

[The Modfather]

5 shots on target compared to 3 is not, in any way a horsing.

Rocky barely had to work.

I'm not saying the performance was good enough or that I enjoyed the game - it wasn't and I didn't. But i don't buy the line that we should have been hammered.

But on balance we probably did deserve to lose. We couldn’t get out of our half for large spells in the second half

[Smartie]

5 shots on target compared to 3 is not, in any way a horsing.

Rocky barely had to work.

I'm not saying the performance was good enough or that I enjoyed the game - it wasn't and I didn't. But i don't buy the line that we should have been hammered.

That might be what the stats say but I don't think they paint the true picture. Shots on target stats don't take into account your fullback or goalkeeper wiping a player out in a promising position, heading a good cross behind, or getting in a block.

I thought they were well on top and deserved to win the game.

At no point during the second half did I feel comfortable and if we'd managed to hold on for another minute to win it would have felt like daylight robbery.

I don't know if I'd go as far as to say we should have been hammered but I don't think we'd have had too many complaints had we lost.

[Hiber-nation]

5 shots on target compared to 3 is not, in any way a horsing.

Rocky barely had to work.

I'm not saying the performance was good enough or that I enjoyed the game - it wasn't and I didn't. But i don't buy the line that we should have been hammered.

We were at home to a struggling St Johnstone. If we'd lost by 2 goals no-one would have complained. Well you know what I mean!

[Gypsy King]

Hopefully the ones booing subs can go with him. Pathetic support

Nonsense. It was tactically inept and everyone could see it. It cost us three points and he was rightly booed.

[Onceinawhile]

Nonsense. It was tactically inept and everyone could see it. It cost us three points and he was rightly booed.

The substitution that brought on Daryll Horgan? The one whose cross field switch was instrumental in the build up to the 2nd goal?

[The Leith Dutch]

That might be what the stats say but I don't think they paint the true picture. Shots on target stats don't take into account your fullback or goalkeeper wiping a player out in a promising position, heading a good cross behind, or getting in a block.

I thought they were well on top and deserved to win the game.

At no point during the second half did I feel comfortable and if we'd managed to hold on for another minute to win it would have felt like daylight robbery.

I don't know if I'd go as far as to say we should have been hammered but I don't think we'd have had too many complaints had we lost.

I think this sums it up well.
Stats wise it probably looks ok and result wise it's a draw to the last kick of the game.

But having been there and watched it we were awful for most of the second half.
We were penned in and second to almost every ball and you felt they were going to score a long time before they eventually did.
There were basic failings in how the team was set up and how they played and we lost the ball a lot.

I felt St Johnstone were quite a limited team too which is worrying.
It doesn't feel that teams have to be good or to play well to take something out of games with us.
The impression I get is that any team who play a decent midfield against us will control the centre of the park and put our defence under a heap of pressure at which point we'll concede goals.

[Salisbury Hibby]

The substitution that brought on Daryll Horgan? The one whose cross field switch was instrumental in the build up to the 2nd goal?Just picking that out doesn't mean it was the right substitutions. Allan should have been in the middle and I would rather have swapped Doidge for Horgan and brought Allan central.

Slivka, for a big guy, is powder puff and just doesn't offer much at all. I would have left him on the bench.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[emerald green]

Its not the results that are the real issue. Historically Hibs get a spanking at least once every 5 years or so at Ibrox or Parkhead and even decent Hibs teams have stuttered at home to teams we would hope / expect to be beating.

The issue is the manner in which we are handing the initiative to our opponents … in yesterday's game and to a lesser extent against St Mirren we either by accident or design allowed both our opponents at home in the league to take control of the game, its not a good sign and a lot of us have been over the course before with this, when you see a Hibs team playing like that it never ever has a good long term outcome.

On top of that the team is playing absolutely contrary to the way the manager said he was going to, from the beginning it was his mantra … "play a high pressing game". Well where is it? … from the very beginning that 'high press' consisted of 9 men in our own half against Celtic with a forward and midfielder trying to close down 4 defenders who passed around them easily … he continued that in every big game and it seems has now extended that to whoever we play this season.

At every opposition free kick and corner both against St Mirren and St Johnstone we left nobody up the pitch, with no out ball if you clear it you immediately get it coming back at you.

At yesterday's game it became obvious that what I thought against St Mirren was true, that we are competing, but we aren't playing any football .. where the hell is the passing movement through midfield opening up the chance for a shot from the edge of the box? Where the hell is the quick passing passage of play to spring a wide player in behind? I see very little of that.

We are slow, predictable, unimaginative and worse boring to watch … Saturday was a beautiful day and a 3pm Saturday kick off .. 15,000 + is a good crowd, but it was less than the last home game which had a similar away support and if we continue to serve up this type of game the crowds will diminish without a doubt.

Motherwell are up next and they are in decent form, followed by Killie away who aren't. If we come away from these fixtures with nowt, which looks likely on form like yesterday, and follow that up with a defeat at home to Hearts Heckingbottom will lose the support totally.

Good post. Cannot disagree with any of this, sadly.

[MrSmith]

Fair play to Jackson.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/latest-hibs-news/adam-jackson-refutes-head-coach-s-claim-and-says-hibs-can-deal-with-boos-1-4990725

Hecky lost the dressing room? It appears so.

[Peevemor]

Hecky lost the dressing room? It appears so.

Hardly!

[MrSmith]

Hardly!

I really don't see the need for one of players to come out and contradict the manager in the press. Something is definitely up.

[Marvellous]

I really don't see the need for one of players to come out and contradict the manager in the press. Something is definitely up.

Deary me :hilarious

[Hibeesmad]

Could have scored another 2 goals if it wasn’t for the sloppy passing of Horgan

[matty_f]

Hecky lost the dressing room? It appears so.

That’s some leap.

[Peevemor]

I really don't see the need for one of players to come out and contradict the manager in the press. Something is definitely up.

PH was giving his impressions of the game almost straight after the final whistle.

Jackson was obviously answering a direct question - something like "were the players affected by the negativity of the crowd?" Had he said yes we'd all be moaning that he should man up, he said "I don't think so", so you take that as him contradicting the manager who has therefore lost the dressing room.

Bit of a stretch, no?

[MrSmith]

PH was giving his impressions of the game almost straight after the final whistle.

Jackson was obviously answering a direct question - something like "were the players affected by the negativity of the crowd?" Had he said yes we'd all be moaning that he should man up, he said "I don't think so", so you take that as him contradicting the manager who has therefore lost the dressing room.

Bit of a stretch, no?

Could be a bit of a stretch and get what you are saying. Surely though, unity and consistency more the key right now?

[Peevemor]

Could be a bit of a stretch and get what you are saying. Surely though, unity and consistency more the key right now?

Maybe he didn't feel affected. What answer do you thin he should have given?

[flash]

It's funny how things go. I was raging on saturday and giving the manager pelters when he took SA off. All the way back to the car we were talking about how he needs to turn things around pretty quickly with the supporters.
Then i come on here and after about 15 minutes reading some of the stuff i do a complete u turn and decide to give him the benefit of the doubt and a reasonable period of time to get things moving forward.
Why? Because this forum is absolutely toxic just now. The same posters are posting on every single thread saying exactly the same thing relentlessly. Every utterance the manager makes is twisted to such an extent it almost becomes a parody.
The vast majority of punters i talk to at work and within my social circle are concerned but not to the extent that they are wanting rid of him at the earliest opportunity. if time passes and things don't improve then of course the board will subject his work to intense scrutiny. That's their job and i trust them to do it.
Maybe at some point in time it becomes the job of supporters to do just that and try to be that mythical 12th man. I am aware that the boos on Saturday were for the manager but, let's face it, the atmosphere before that was sterile at best.
No doubt some people will say it's the team's job to get the fans going not the other way around. I disagree. Look at the stadiums with incredible atmospheres before kick off. These teams rarely have a bad record at home. We can create that sort of atmosphere. We do it for derbies and European nights. I reckon a good, positive noisy Easter Road would make a real difference to the players.

[southsider]

It's funny how things go. I was raging on saturday and giving the manager pelters when he took SA off. All the way back to the car we were talking about how he needs to turn things around pretty quickly with the supporters.
Then i come on here and after about 15 minutes reading some of the stuff i do a complete u turn and decide to give him the benefit of the doubt and a reasonable period of time to get things moving forward.
Why? Because this forum is absolutely toxic just now. The same posters are posting on every single thread saying exactly the same thing relentlessly. Every utterance the manager makes is twisted to such an extent it almost becomes a parody.
The vast majority of punters i talk to at work and within my social circle are concerned but not to the extent that they are wanting rid of him at the earliest opportunity. if time passes and things don't improve then of course the board will subject his work to intense scrutiny. That's their job and i trust them to do it.
Maybe at some point in time it becomes the job of supporters to do just that and try to be that mythical 12th man. I am aware that the boos on Saturday were for the manager but, let's face it, the atmosphere before that was sterile at best.
No doubt some people will say it's the team's job to get the fans going not the other way around. I disagree. Look at the stadiums with incredible atmospheres before kick off. These teams rarely have a bad record at home. We can create that sort of atmosphere. We do it for derbies and European nights. I reckon a good, positive noisy Easter Road would make a real difference to the players.
yeh canny make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

[flash]

yeh canny make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

And with one response my 15 minutes of hard toil is eviscerated.

[MrSmith]

Maybe he didn't feel affected. What answer do you thin he should have given?

something along the lines of "boys are digging in and playing for the manager. etc" You know the generic supportive response.

[flash]

something along the lines of "boys are digging in and playing for the manager. etc" You know the generic supportive response.

As Jackson was his captain at Barnsley and has followed him up here it seems unlikely he would use his first post match interview to call the manager out.

[MrSmith]

As Jackson was his captain at Barnsley and has followed him up here it seems unlikely he would use his first post match interview to call the manager out.

Didn't know that and probably right.

[flash]

Didn't know that and probably right.

No worries. I think Jackson was just giving the professional answer.

[007]

It's funny how things go. I was raging on saturday and giving the manager pelters when he took SA off. All the way back to the car we were talking about how he needs to turn things around pretty quickly with the supporters.
Then i come on here and after about 15 minutes reading some of the stuff i do a complete u turn and decide to give him the benefit of the doubt and a reasonable period of time to get things moving forward.
Why? Because this forum is absolutely toxic just now. The same posters are posting on every single thread saying exactly the same thing relentlessly. Every utterance the manager makes is twisted to such an extent it almost becomes a parody.
The vast majority of punters i talk to at work and within my social circle are concerned but not to the extent that they are wanting rid of him at the earliest opportunity. if time passes and things don't improve then of course the board will subject his work to intense scrutiny. That's their job and i trust them to do it.
Maybe at some point in time it becomes the job of supporters to do just that and try to be that mythical 12th man. I am aware that the boos on Saturday were for the manager but, let's face it, the atmosphere before that was sterile at best.
No doubt some people will say it's the team's job to get the fans going not the other way around. I disagree. Look at the stadiums with incredible atmospheres before kick off. These teams rarely have a bad record at home. We can create that sort of atmosphere. We do it for derbies and European nights. I reckon a good, positive noisy Easter Road would make a real difference to the players.

Plus you can't always be sure some of the negative posts aren't Jambos stirring up trouble. Hopefully the mods are weeding them out though it's not always obvious.

[FitbaFolkKen]

It's funny how things go. I was raging on saturday and giving the manager pelters when he took SA off. All the way back to the car we were talking about how he needs to turn things around pretty quickly with the supporters.
Then i come on here and after about 15 minutes reading some of the stuff i do a complete u turn and decide to give him the benefit of the doubt and a reasonable period of time to get things moving forward.
Why? Because this forum is absolutely toxic just now. The same posters are posting on every single thread saying exactly the same thing relentlessly. Every utterance the manager makes is twisted to such an extent it almost becomes a parody.
The vast majority of punters i talk to at work and within my social circle are concerned but not to the extent that they are wanting rid of him at the earliest opportunity. if time passes and things don't improve then of course the board will subject his work to intense scrutiny. That's their job and i trust them to do it.
Maybe at some point in time it becomes the job of supporters to do just that and try to be that mythical 12th man. I am aware that the boos on Saturday were for the manager but, let's face it, the atmosphere before that was sterile at best.
No doubt some people will say it's the team's job to get the fans going not the other way around. I disagree. Look at the stadiums with incredible atmospheres before kick off. These teams rarely have a bad record at home. We can create that sort of atmosphere. We do it for derbies and European nights. I reckon a good, positive noisy Easter Road would make a real difference to the players.

I totally agree, I wasn't happy on Saturday either but on here was just a meltdown. I was quite vocal in my defence of Heckoingbottom and what he was doing but I couldn't say I enjoyed Saturday. However I can't remember .net being this poisonous for quite some time which got my back up a bit and I waded in.... schoolboy error!

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

It's funny how things go. I was raging on saturday and giving the manager pelters when he took SA off. All the way back to the car we were talking about how he needs to turn things around pretty quickly with the supporters.
Then i come on here and after about 15 minutes reading some of the stuff i do a complete u turn and decide to give him the benefit of the doubt and a reasonable period of time to get things moving forward.
Why? Because this forum is absolutely toxic just now. The same posters are posting on every single thread saying exactly the same thing relentlessly. Every utterance the manager makes is twisted to such an extent it almost becomes a parody.
The vast majority of punters i talk to at work and within my social circle are concerned but not to the extent that they are wanting rid of him at the earliest opportunity. if time passes and things don't improve then of course the board will subject his work to intense scrutiny. That's their job and i trust them to do it.
Maybe at some point in time it becomes the job of supporters to do just that and try to be that mythical 12th man. I am aware that the boos on Saturday were for the manager but, let's face it, the atmosphere before that was sterile at best.
No doubt some people will say it's the team's job to get the fans going not the other way around. I disagree. Look at the stadiums with incredible atmospheres before kick off. These teams rarely have a bad record at home. We can create that sort of atmosphere. We do it for derbies and European nights. I reckon a good, positive noisy Easter Road would make a real difference to the players.
Absolutely. This message board has seriously lost the plot recently.

There are a small number on here almost willing the manager to fail so they can all feel a bit smug when they tell us that they were right all along.

PH may/may not be the man but he and the team deserves some backing and a little bit of time at the very least until we find out one way or another. If we give him the support then at least we can say we gave him a fair crack of the whip rather than a hiding to nothing that some people are taking great pleasure in.

[ancient hibee]

No worries. I think Jackson was just giving the professional answer.
When knows.Hecky walked out on Barnsley just after signing a new contract and they were relegated.Maybe not bosom buddies:greengrin.
This forum is just all our opinions.It’s a mistake to confuse it with real life.

[Victor]

Not sure if it has previously been mentioned, but does anyone else think that the deals given to Gray and McGregor have become a bit of a millstone? I appreciate that they are club legends and that they deserved some recognition, but if money is tight, were their 4 year deals a bit of an extravagance? I don’t know how much input, if any, the manager had into the length of the contracts, but as they are both now injured it has has left us short in defence. Could the money have been better used bringing in cover? The reality is that David Gray, in particular, has been injury prone for a couple of seasons now, with short term replacements brought in by the previous manager. Did Heckingbottom feel obliged to use him regardless of his fitness? He appeared to be struggling for most of the first half on Saturday and was providing very little as an attacking option.

[Salisbury Hibby]

Not sure if it has previously been mentioned, but does anyone else think that the deals given to Gray and McGregor have become a bit of a millstone? I appreciate that they are club legends and that they deserved some recognition, but if money is tight, were their 4 year deals a bit of an extravagance? I don’t know how much input, if any, the manager had into the length of the contracts, but as they are both now injured it has has left us short in defence. Could the money have been better used bringing in cover? The reality is that David Gray, in particular, has been injury prone for a couple of seasons now, with short term replacements brought in by the previous manager. Did Heckingbottom feel obliged to use him regardless of his fitness? He appeared to be struggling for most of the first half on Saturday and was providing very little as an attacking option.I think it is a millstone, because (quite rightly) Hanlon and Stevenson could expect the same.

Sounds tough, but maybe Hibs should have been more ruthless. You get a contract to play if you can still cut it. If you want another role in the club, then that's a different type of contract.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[flash]

Not sure if it has previously been mentioned, but does anyone else think that the deals given to Gray and McGregor have become a bit of a millstone? I appreciate that they are club legends and that they deserved some recognition, but if money is tight, were their 4 year deals a bit of an extravagance? I don’t know how much input, if any, the manager had into the length of the contracts, but as they are both now injured it has has left us short in defence. Could the money have been better used bringing in cover? The reality is that David Gray, in particular, has been injury prone for a couple of seasons now, with short term replacements brought in by the previous manager. Did Heckingbottom feel obliged to use him regardless of his fitness? He appeared to be struggling for most of the first half on Saturday and was providing very little as an attacking option.
Probably the most surprising contracts I have ever seen handed out by Hibs.

[ancient hibee]

Probably the most surprising contracts I have ever seen handed out by Hibs.

Not nearly as surprising as some handed out to incoming players this year.It will be safe to assume that the Gray/McGregor contracts will have financial reductions as they move from being senior players to being junior coaches or whatever.No such luck with Vela,Doidge and Newell.

[flash]

Not nearly as surprising as some handed out to incoming players this year.It will be safe to assume that the Gray/McGregor contracts will have financial reductions as they move from being senior players to being junior coaches or whatever.No such luck with Vela,Doidge and Newell.

It was for me but I haven't written off people who are two minutes in the door.

[Since452]

Everyone seemed delighted with the contracts Gray and McGregor were given. Dempster and the club got a lot of praise for it. People who knew a bit about English football were delighted with Vela signing etc. Reminds me of when Butcher got the managers job. He was most fans choice and we were all delighted. Shows how quickly negativity spreads.

[flash]

Everyone seemed delighted with the contracts Gray and McGregor were given. Dempster and the club got a lot of praise for it. People who knew a bit about English football were delighted with Vela signing etc. Reminds me of when Butcher got the managers job. He was most fans choice and we were all delighted. Shows how quickly negativity spreads.
Everyone I go to games with thought the contracts were utterly bizarre regardless of how much we love them both. Why would you give 4 year deals to aging players who are never going to want to leave anyway?

[ancient hibee]

Everyone I go to games with thought the contracts were utterly bizarre regardless of how much we love them both. Why would you give 4 year deals to aging players who are never going to want to leave anyway?


Because they're not four year playing contracts?

[flash]

Because they're not four year playing contracts?

That makes no sense whatsoever.

[ancient hibee]

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Can't help that but that's what they are.

[flash]

Can't help that but that's what they are.

No worries thanks for that.

[#2 Double Tap]

Everyone seemed delighted with the contracts Gray and McGregor were given. Dempster and the club got a lot of praise for it. People who knew a bit about English football were delighted with Vela signing etc. Reminds me of when Butcher got the managers job. He was most fans choice and we were all delighted. Shows how quickly negativity spreads.

it always changes when you are exposed to watching it in the flesh every week.....thats why scouting via video and stats is such a bad idea.

[Lago]

That makes no sense whatsoever.
Agree, and I wonder how much the manager/coach was involved in the decision ? I feel it was a LD initiative.
Additionally there's never been a clear statement as to what the 4 year contracts in tail, other than involvement in other areas. ��

[SMAXXA]

Before a ball was kicked and we seen the fixtures, I’d say I would have probably said we would be where we are and would have hoped more than expected to beat SJ based on previous games against them at ER. We are where I thought would be reasonable points wise and we’ve still not really played that great certainly not in an entire game yet. I’d say with the turn over of players and early days it’s a decent platform to build on.

I didn’t expect the goal difference to be as bad don’t get me wrong but I’d say the last 20m of the Huns game will be an exception from a goals conceded perspective.

I’m not writing us off just yet

[J-C]

That makes no sense whatsoever.


The contracts will allow them to flow from being pro players and onto the coaching set up without any need for negotiations, they'll reduce in wages accordingly.

[Smartie]

They were both excellent in the second half of last season and earned those contracts.

That's before you get into what they've done in the past.

[Hibbyradge]

It's funny how things go. I was raging on saturday and giving the manager pelters when he took SA off. All the way back to the car we were talking about how he needs to turn things around pretty quickly with the supporters.
Then i come on here and after about 15 minutes reading some of the stuff i do a complete u turn and decide to give him the benefit of the doubt and a reasonable period of time to get things moving forward.
Why? Because this forum is absolutely toxic just now. The same posters are posting on every single thread saying exactly the same thing relentlessly. Every utterance the manager makes is twisted to such an extent it almost becomes a parody.
The vast majority of punters i talk to at work and within my social circle are concerned but not to the extent that they are wanting rid of him at the earliest opportunity. if time passes and things don't improve then of course the board will subject his work to intense scrutiny. That's their job and i trust them to do it.
Maybe at some point in time it becomes the job of supporters to do just that and try to be that mythical 12th man. I am aware that the boos on Saturday were for the manager but, let's face it, the atmosphere before that was sterile at best.
No doubt some people will say it's the team's job to get the fans going not the other way around. I disagree. Look at the stadiums with incredible atmospheres before kick off. These teams rarely have a bad record at home. We can create that sort of atmosphere. We do it for derbies and European nights. I reckon a good, positive noisy Easter Road would make a real difference to the players.

Have I understood this properly?

You were giving the manager pelters and saying that he needed to change things because of what was happening on the pitch and the part he played in that, but you decided to do a 180° U-turn and give him your full backing, because you don't like what some people are saying on a message board?

How does that excuse the poor decisions, poor performances and bad results? :confused:

[flash]

Have I understood this properly?

You were giving the manager pelters and saying that he needed to change things because of what was happening on the pitch and the part he played in that, but you decided to do a 180° U-turn and give him your full backing, because you don't like what some people are saying on a message board

How does that excuse the poor decisions, poor performances and bad results? :confused:

It doesn't. I took a step back and realised it was far too early to make a definitive decision. The role of the relentless negativity of some posters was simply that it made me realise I was getting caught up in their nonsense.
If the manager fails to learn from his mistakes he wont last long.

[flash]

Incidentally I have reread my post and, while it's far from perfect, fail to see where I said he has my full backing.

[Hibbyradge]

Incidentally I have reread my post and, while it's far from perfect, fail to see where I said he has my full backing.

Ok. Your 180° u-turn comment suggested that, but I see that you're giving him the benefit of the doubt.

So, in fact, you've only turned 120′? :greengrin

Dontcha just wish folk would stop twisting things and exaggerating on here? :tee hee: :wink:

[JimBHibees]

Incidentally I have reread my post and, while it's far from perfect, fail to see where I said he has my full backing.

You didn't you said you would give him a bit more time and then see where he and the club were. Similar to myself to be honest there are obvious concerns however no way is it too late to be turned around with a couple of decent wins and performances. A negative would IMO our most obvious leaders on the park McGregoer and Gray are likely to be out for a while.

[flash]

Ok. Your 180° u-turn comment suggested that, but I see that you're giving him the benefit of the doubt.

So, in fact, you've only turned 120′? :greengrin

Dontcha just wish folk would stop twisting things and exaggerating on here? :tee hee: :wink:

Ach it's the nature of the beast but i get your point. i actually noticed the contradiction you pointed out when i read my own post but couldn't be ersed doing anything about it. :doh:

[SMAXXA]

He has my backing at this stage don’t mind saying it

[The Leith Dutch]

He has my backing at this stage don’t mind saying it

Genuine question (coming from someone who thinks we should move him on) - do you see something in
him as a bloke or in what he's doing or saying that makes you think he can turn things around performance
wise? If so, I'm curious what it is as ultimately it's the root of my issues with him that I just don't see anything.

For what it's worth, he'd start to win me back if we started to look like an organised, disciplined team even if
the results didn't immediately follow. I just worry he's going to persist in doing the same things he's doing now
in the mistaken belief things will magically improve with hard work from the players and more listening.

[SMAXXA]

Genuine question (coming from someone who thinks we should move him on) - do you see something in
him as a bloke or in what he's doing or saying that makes you think he can turn things around performance
wise? If so, I'm curious what it is as ultimately it's the root of my issues with him that I just don't see anything.

For what it's worth, he'd start to win me back if we started to look like an organised, disciplined team even if
the results didn't immediately follow. I just worry he's going to persist in doing the same things he's doing now
in the mistaken belief things will magically improve with hard work from the players and more listening.

Maybe it’s blind faith mate or a part of me doesn’t want another rebuild say someone else comes in and has to start from scratch wanting his own players in. I also feel like it’s too early, in the grand scheme of things he’s not had that long to work with his full squad and I feel he deserves that opportunity.

In terms of the performance and organisation side of things I don’t see is as bad as some make us out to be. We have looked decent in spells but also I’d agree we looked poor at times in other regards. Speaking to a couple of the players I know they are fully behind him and that’s a position I’d rather us be in as something to build on.

I agree with a lot of the criticism of certain points made and I’m certainly not burying my head in the sand or a happy clapper as folk say. Managers need time and in the grand scheme of things I don’t feel he’s had enough.

I’ve said all along give it 10 games in to the season and if results are poor and performances the same id have little complaints if we parted company.

[Smartie]

He has my backing at this stage don’t mind saying it

I think we're a defensive midfielder away from having a good side.

I remember Stubbs having a slow start, and he stumbled upon the diamond formation that seemed to suit our players better.

PH does things that frustrate me but I don't think we're far away from being on the right track.

Last season though, I don't think Lennon was far away but ended up leaving us in 8th. Getting the midfield nearly right = getting the midfield wrong, and that can be costly.

I've never been one for sacking managers, especially when they're not long in the door.

I'd sooner see the back of some highly rated players who I just can't see fitting into our side.

[MrSmith]

Not backing but not sacking neither - I'm just MEH!

[The Leith Dutch]

Maybe it’s blind faith mate or a part of me doesn’t want another rebuild say someone else comes in and has to start from scratch wanting his own players in. I also feel like it’s too early, in the grand scheme of things he’s not had that long to work with his full squad and I feel he deserves that opportunity.

In terms of the performance and organisation side of things I don’t see is as bad as some make us out to be. We have looked decent in spells but also I’d agree we looked poor at times in other regards. Speaking to a couple of the players I know they are fully behind him and that’s a position I’d rather us be in as something to build on.

I agree with a lot of the criticism of certain points made and I’m certainly not burying my head in the sand or a happy clapper as folk say. Managers need time and in the grand scheme of things I don’t feel he’s had enough.

I’ve said all along give it 10 games in to the season and if results are poor and performances the same id have little complaints if we parted company.

Cheers for the feedback - like I say, genuinely curious.

The fact that he's got the players on side is definitely a plus point and I'd agree
that another rebuild is something I have little appetite for.

The frustrating thing is I actually don't think it's a bad group of players - a few I've
got concerns on but I think with everyone fit we can put 11 players on the park that'll
compete if not for 3rd then at least a tilt at 4th.

Either way we'll see - I think that as long as he doesn't do anything calamitous like losing
the next three games he'll be here till Christmas at least so much of the discussion here is
irrelevant - a harsher man than me might say all of it ;)

[Speedway]

Not backing but not sacking neither - I'm just MEH!

And that's a much bigger problem for the club.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I want him out. Turning on the support will only end up one way.

[hibeerealist]

Cheers for the feedback - like I say, genuinely curious.

The fact that he's got the players on side is definitely a plus point and I'd agree
that another rebuild is something I have little appetite for.

The frustrating thing is I actually don't think it's a bad group of players - a few I've
got concerns on but I think with everyone fit we can put 11 players on the park that'll
compete if not for 3rd then at least a tilt at 4th.

Either way we'll see - I think that as long as he doesn't do anything calamitous like losing
the next three games he'll be here till Christmas at least so much of the discussion here is
irrelevant - a harsher man than me might say all of it ;)

But has he got the players onside LD, wonder if SA is onside with him?

I am not so sure, the players look confused and look to the bench quite a lot. Where is the high press he promised?

We do not look like a side confident in what we are doing.

[Peevemor]

I want him out. Turning on the support will only end up one way.

He didn't.

"You have to get tougher and get used to it. Everyone wants to play at the top level but as you go up the scrutiny gets higher and higher. Whether it’s unfair or not. Scrutiny get s higher and as a player you have to deal with it."

[Smartie]

He didn't.

"You have to get tougher and get used to it. Everyone wants to play at the top level but as you go up the scrutiny gets higher and higher. Whether it’s unfair or not. Scrutiny get s higher and as a player you have to deal with it."

When you get to a position where every comment he makes is being twisted into an attack on him it can be a very difficult situation to turn around.

I don't think it's unsalvageable yet, but there are some worrying signs.

[allezsauzee]

So the manager's first transfer window isn't even over with and we are wanting him out. And why? because we are mid table after 3 games!! I'm not convinced all of his signings are good enough for the SPL but that would apply to pretty much every manager we've had in recent years. Hecky will make some mistakes but I'd say I've seen enough from February onwards to say that he knows how to organise a team and is shrewd enough tactically to get things right.

Alternatively we could pay off the management team, pay to get a new management team if they are currently employed who will then want to spend money on making their own mistakes. It's time for Hibs to stick with someone rather than giving up at the first sign of trouble, otherwise we are doomed for another cycle of Paateleinen/Yogi/Calderwood/Fenlon/Butcher wasting any money that we have recycling squads

[Peevemor]

When you get to a position where every comment he makes is being twisted into an attack on him it can be a very difficult situation to turn around.

I don't think it's unsalvageable yet, but there are some worrying signs.

I agree, but I think we could make more effort on here to calm the hysteria that's breaking out. It's seems to have become fact that he criticised the fans on Saturday - he didn't. He said that he had his reasons for subbing Allan and didn't realise there was a law against doing so. He also said that the players, many playing in the top tier for the first time, have to learn to cope with higher expectations from the supporters.

[SMAXXA]

So the manager's first transfer window isn't even over with and we are wanting him out. And why? because we are mid table after 3 games!! I'm not convinced all of his signings are good enough for the SPL but that would apply to pretty much every manager we've had in recent years. Hecky will make some mistakes but I'd say I've seen enough from February onwards to say that he knows how to organise a team and is shrewd enough tactically to get things right.

Alternatively we could pay off the management team, pay to get a new management team if they are currently employed who will then want to spend money on making their own mistakes. It's time for Hibs to stick with someone rather than giving up at the first sign of trouble, otherwise we are doomed for another cycle of Paateleinen/Yogi/Calderwood/Fenlon/Butcher wasting any money that we have recycling squads

👏👏👏 spot on imo

[jeffers]

C’mon. His comment about not realising there was a law about substituting Scott Allan was in response to the boos and was clearly criticising the fans. His reasons for the substitution were no more than excuses rather than admit he was wrong in the first place by playing him out of position again.

[Hibs4185]

I’m on the fence whether he should go or be given more time but I don’t think we can afford to let this drag on until Xmas. The feel good factor around the club is disappearing at an alarming rate and it will be hard to get it back. The euphoria of the Scottish cup won’t ever be repeated even if we win it this year, and if we want to grow as a club, for me it means we have to be decisive, and give him a few games but no more.

[Victor]

C’mon. His comment about not realising there was a law about substituting Scott Allan was in response to the boos and was clearly criticising the fans. His reasons for the substitution were no more than excuses rather than admit he was wrong in the first place by playing him out of position again.

I don’t think the fans are above criticism. If they were booing the substitution of Allan, then they were in the wrong. Allan was very poor, regardless of where he we was meant to be playing and he was probably right in replacing him. Unfortunately his replacement didn’t do much better.

[Peevemor]

C’mon. His comment about not realising there was a law about substituting Scott Allan was in response to the boos and was clearly criticising the fans.

Or maybe it was his response to the support criticising him?


His reasons for the substitution were no more than excuses rather than admit he was wrong in the first place by playing him out of position again.


Possibly, but it's not unusual for Allan to be subbed 20 minutes from time.

[SMAXXA]

I don’t think the fans are above criticism. If they were booing the substitution of Allan, then they were in the wrong. Allan was very poor, regardless of where he we was meant to be playing and he was probably right in replacing him. Unfortunately his replacement didn’t do much better.

I’d agree with this but I also see the frustrating side of it you only need to look at the through ball he played for Doidge from central and he really should have scored and game over, taking him off we lost that. Albeit we are defending a lead and he’s tiring and not great defensively so I really don’t get the big issue taking him off to try manage the game with the pace of Horgan and Middleton on the counter. Been made too much an issue the Allan sub for me and fans need to realise we are more than just SA as talented as he is.

[Baldy Foghorn]

He didn't.

"You have to get tougher and get used to it. Everyone wants to play at the top level but as you go up the scrutiny gets higher and higher. Whether it’s unfair or not. Scrutiny get s higher and as a player you have to deal with it."

He said in one article the anxiousness emanating from the stands transferred to the players. He also made a comment about fans "downing tools" last season. Two sweeping remarks regards the support doesn't sit well with me

[jeffers]

I don’t think the fans are above criticism. If they were booing the substitution of Allan, then they were in the wrong. Allan was very poor, regardless of where he we was meant to be playing and he was probably right in replacing him. Unfortunately his replacement didn’t do much better.

Rightly or wrongly it doesn’t work that way. When a manager starts having a go at the fans it rarely ends well.

Allan wasn’t great on Saturday, no argument, but still offered more in open play than Mallan did. I’ve said this a few times now, but he played him out of position against St Mirren as well and it was only once he moved into a central position he was able to influence the game as he can. You’d have hoped Heckingbottom would have learned from that, clearly he didn’t.

[B.H.F.C]

I’d agree with this but I also see the frustrating side of it you only need to look at the through ball he played for Doidge from central and he really should have scored and game over, taking him off we lost that. Albeit we are defending a lead and he’s tiring and not great defensively so I really don’t get the big issue taking him off to try manage the game with the pace of Horgan and Middleton on the counter. Been made too much an issue the Allan sub for me and fans need to realise we are more than just SA as talented as he is.

Allan being subbed wasn’t the big issue. Allan has always been subbed pretty regularly over his spells here. Had he been playing where he should have been and been ineffective, it wouldn’t have got that type of reaction. The fact everybody was utterly baffled about him being stuck on the right wing for an hour before being hooked was what led to the reaction.

[SMAXXA]

Cheers for the feedback - like I say, genuinely curious.

The fact that he's got the players on side is definitely a plus point and I'd agree
that another rebuild is something I have little appetite for.

The frustrating thing is I actually don't think it's a bad group of players - a few I've
got concerns on but I think with everyone fit we can put 11 players on the park that'll
compete if not for 3rd then at least a tilt at 4th.

Either way we'll see - I think that as long as he doesn't do anything calamitous like losing
the next three games he'll be here till Christmas at least so much of the discussion here is
irrelevant - a harsher man than me might say all of it ;)

No worries it’s refreshing to have a discussion or exchange if views without being shot down wether your in agreement or not, debate the merits.

[Hibbyradge]

So the manager's first transfer window isn't even over with and we are wanting him out. And why? because we are mid table after 3 games!! I'm not convinced all of his signings are good enough for the SPL but that would apply to pretty much every manager we've had in recent years. Hecky will make some mistakes but I'd say I've seen enough from February onwards to say that he knows how to organise a team and is shrewd enough tactically to get things right.

Alternatively we could pay off the management team, pay to get a new management team if they are currently employed who will then want to spend money on making their own mistakes. It's time for Hibs to stick with someone rather than giving up at the first sign of trouble, otherwise we are doomed for another cycle of Paateleinen/Yogi/Calderwood/Fenlon/Butcher wasting any money that we have recycling squads


"Paateleinen/Yogi/Calderwood/Fenlon/Butcher"

Just as a matter of interest, in hindsight, do you think we should have changed any of those managers earlier than we did, or do you think we should have given them even more time?

[FilipinoHibs]

C’mon. His comment about not realising there was a law about substituting Scott Allan was in response to the boos and was clearly criticising the fans. His reasons for the substitution were no more than excuses rather than admit he was wrong in the first place by playing him out of position again.

Yup he could just explained the rationale for subbing Scott without the sarcastic comment. Seems a bit immature- thinking of the knock his teeth out comment. Would also have helped if said playing Scott wide did not work

[21.05.2016]

I'm yet to be convinced that he's the right man tbh, his signings bar a couple have done little to impress and the performances even against lower league oppositions have been far from good enough.

Early days so willing to give him a chance but i do worry atm. There just seems to be a bit of bad feeling around the club atm.

I felt his "i didn't know there was a law against subbing Scott Allan" comment was a bit cheeky. Nobody is saying Allan or anyone for that matter is immune from getting taken off but dont play players out of position then when it doesnt work take them off. Rectify the error, put him back into his natural position and give us the best chance to kill off the game.

[Bobby's Cinema]

The style mentality and system is a big concern for me.

I don't think the manager is giving the group of players the best chance to succeed the way he is setting us up.


That said, he has done enough results wise to get more of a chance than some are prepared to give him imo.
He is clearly still experimenting as seen by changing to 2 up top, moving Allan around all over the place.

Still hopeful he is picking things up with each game and there will be clear signs we are learning from mistakes over the next 6-8weeks.

[jeffers]

Allan being subbed wasn’t the big issue. Allan has always been subbed pretty regularly over his spells here. Had he been playing where he should have been and been ineffective, it wouldn’t have got that type of reaction. The fact everybody was utterly baffled about him being stuck on the right wing for an hour before being hooked was what led to the reaction.

Saved me posting this. Personally my booing was a much that he'd been played out of position as it was him being subbed. As has been stated he's been subbed numerous times before, but never with a reaction like the one on Saturday.

[Keith_M]

I don’t think the fans are above criticism. If they were booing the substitution of Allan, then they were in the wrong. Allan was very poor, regardless of where he we was meant to be playing and he was probably right in replacing him. Unfortunately his replacement didn’t do much better.


Where Allan is played and the role he's given will surely affect how much he contributes to the game.

We were still winning when he was subbed and ended up drawing 2-2, so I'd argue that subbing him wasn't exactly very successful.

I still don't get the booing from such a large amount of our support, though. I get that they weren't happy with the substitution but that surprised me, and couldn't have filled the players with confidence (I'm convinced it affected Horgan, for one).

---------------------------------------

My feeling on Heckingbottom is still the same. I'm waiting to be convinced that he has an eye for a player, knows how to get the best out of the players at his disposal and is actually tactically astute. I've been at a lot og games this season and still waiting to see any evidence of any of those things.

I'm not calling for his head and I won't stop supporting the team but I admit to being a bit concerned that we might not actually turn into a decent side and that the attendances will plunge as a result.

[One Day Soon]

So the manager's first transfer window isn't even over with and we are wanting him out. And why? because we are mid table after 3 games!! I'm not convinced all of his signings are good enough for the SPL but that would apply to pretty much every manager we've had in recent years. Hecky will make some mistakes but I'd say I've seen enough from February onwards to say that he knows how to organise a team and is shrewd enough tactically to get things right.

Alternatively we could pay off the management team, pay to get a new management team if they are currently employed who will then want to spend money on making their own mistakes. It's time for Hibs to stick with someone rather than giving up at the first sign of trouble, otherwise we are doomed for another cycle of Paateleinen/Yogi/Calderwood/Fenlon/Butcher wasting any money that we have recycling squads


My doubts about him have noting to do with league position or results. It's entirely related to the style of play, lack of energy/tempo/press and strong reservations about his signings. I would swap quite calmly for an opening run of consecutive defeats if I was looking at a team on the park that persuaded me it had spirit, purpose and showed clear signs of progression. In fact, so far, the team I have seen has shown weakness, lack of urgency and signs of going backwards from last season.

I remain a cautiously pessimistic bed clapper. I want him to succeed and he should be given more time to prove that he can, but truly I believe that he will fail.

[hibeerealist]

C’mon. His comment about not realising there was a law about substituting Scott Allan was in response to the boos and was clearly criticising the fans. His reasons for the substitution were no more than excuses rather than admit he was wrong in the first place by playing him out of position again.


:agree:

[hibeerealist]

My doubts about him have noting to do with league position or results. It's entirely related to the style of play, lack of energy/tempo/press and strong reservations about his signings. I would swap quite calmly for an opening run of consecutive defeats if I was looking at a team on the park that persuaded me it had spirit, purpose and showed clear signs of progression. In fact, so far, the team I have seen has shown weakness, lack of urgency and signs of going backwards from last season.

I remain a cautiously pessimistic bed clapper. I want him to succeed and he should be given more time to prove that he can, but truly I believe that he will fail.


Unfortunately, I cannot disagree with any of this ODS, it is bang on.

[hibeerealist]

I'm yet to be convinced that he's the right man tbh, his signings bar a couple have done little to impress and the performances even against lower league oppositions have been far from good enough.

Early days so willing to give him a chance but i do worry atm. There just seems to be a bit of bad feeling around the club atm.

I felt his "i didn't know there was a law against subbing Scott Allan" comment was a bit cheeky. Nobody is saying Allan or anyone for that matter is immune from getting taken off but dont play players out of position then when it doesnt work take them off. Rectify the error, put him back into his natural position and give us the best chance to kill off the game.

Common sense and a tactically aware manager would have rectified it much earlier therefore he is either tactically unaware OR not man enough to concede that he was wrong OR maybe even both! Whichever, it is not helping the team or the players.

[Dr Jimmy]

My doubts about him have noting to do with league position or results. It's entirely related to the style of play, lack of energy/tempo/press and strong reservations about his signings. I would swap quite calmly for an opening run of consecutive defeats if I was looking at a team on the park that persuaded me it had spirit, purpose and showed clear signs of progression. In fact, so far, the team I have seen has shown weakness, lack of urgency and signs of going backwards from last season.

I remain a cautiously pessimistic bed clapper. I want him to succeed and he should be given more time to prove that he can, but truly I believe that he will fail.

This is where I am too. It all has a Colin Calderwood feel to it and it worries me. Hope I am wrong though.

[allezsauzee]

"Paateleinen/Yogi/Calderwood/Fenlon/Butcher"

Just as a matter of interest, in hindsight, do you think we should have changed any of those managers earlier than we did, or do you think we should have given them even more time?

I think you are missing my point that they were all appointed after panicking.

[MrSmith]

!