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Loopz
14-08-2019, 10:10 PM
This is in reply to 3pm’s question in another thread. I have no involvement in HSL apart from being a member, all views are personal and my interpretation only, (which may not be correct).

The HSL membership will be asked how they want their contributions to be managed, the obvious options are,

1. Shares
2. Playing budget
3. Infrastructure

I don’t think the directors could have been any more transparent stating it’s our organisation and the members will decide the future.

There was a lot of discussion about our new owner which whilst very relevant I felt became a distraction from how HSL promotes itself going forward as a vehicle for improving the overall health of the team we support.

Leeann spoke very passionately (and more importantly to me seemingly honestly) that she believes the club is progressing in a positive direction.

Lots of detail revealed about recent player acquisition decisions made by Hibs with LD defending the clubs process and outcomes.

HSL membership continues to grow and fans continue to donate shares.

I will not spend all night answering questions, get yourself along to next weeks meeting it was interesting and informative.

PaulSmith
14-08-2019, 10:22 PM
“Lots of detail revealed about recent player acquisition decisions made by Hibs with LD defending the clubs process and outcomes.”

I know you said you wouldn’t be up all night answering questions but I’m sure more detail would be welcome here..

Loopz
14-08-2019, 10:38 PM
“Lots of detail revealed about recent player acquisition decisions made by Hibs with LD defending the clubs process and outcomes.”

I know you said you wouldn’t be up all night answering questions but I’m sure more detail would be welcome here..

PS, only watching stranger things so,

McNulty, Omeonga, Bartley and Ambrose situations all discussed with LD defending the decisions made.

Fans at meeting questioning some of our recent signings. I felt (again only my interpretation) that Leeann believes it is far too early to make the decision that we have recruited poorly and actually stated, give them a chance or something similar.

I will say it again that although there was a lot of interesting detail, it detracted from the HSL discussion.

Purple & Green
15-08-2019, 07:23 AM
PS, only watching stranger things so,

McNulty, Omeonga, Bartley and Ambrose situations all discussed with LD defending the decisions made.

Fans at meeting questioning some of our recent signings. I felt (again only my interpretation) that Leeann believes it is far too early to make the decision that we have recruited poorly and actually stated, give them a chance or something similar.

I will say it again that although there was a lot of interesting detail, it detracted from the HSL discussion.

Thanks for the update loopz, very helpful. I did wonder if would be used as a platform for LD to defend the clubs actions. HSL - for me - is vehicle to put money into hibs I can afford to give. What hibs do with it, is in a sense up to them - I’m uncomfortable with some of hibs direction of travel but I do not doubt that any individual is doing a job for the best of reasons to the best of their ability. So presumably the members will be given a choice in the near future what to spend the funds on, given iirc hsl cant rattle along building up a cash pot without changing its a of a

This is why I’m looking at our neighbours with intrigue - how are they going to run a football club?

jacomo
15-08-2019, 07:27 AM
Thanks for the info. I wasn’t able to attend the meeting.

How many people turned up?

MartinfaePorty
15-08-2019, 07:48 AM
Thanks for the update - much appreciated. Would have been there if I hadn't already agreed to play football. Will definitely try and get to another event and also look to increase my contribution later on the year.: finances permitting

Loopz
15-08-2019, 08:00 AM
Thanks for the info. I wasn’t able to attend the meeting.

How many people turned up?

Approx 40.

Monktonhall 7
15-08-2019, 08:55 AM
Approx 40.

I was there last night. Very impressed with both Jim and LD. She mentioned that Aberdeen and our neighbours are having money shovelled into them by donors. Also that to sign McNulty and Omeonga would have cost the Club about £5m over a 3 year period and if we did have that money to spend on players, we wouldn’t be spending it on just those 2.

I left feeling positive about continuing my HSL donations, but I think there will be a tougher crowd at next weeks HSA meeting.

G B Young
15-08-2019, 08:57 AM
“Lots of detail revealed about recent player acquisition decisions made by Hibs with LD defending the clubs process and outcomes.”

I know you said you wouldn’t be up all night answering questions but I’m sure more detail would be welcome here..

Indeed. I trust her judgement so it would be good to see her interviewed on a more public platform (eg Hibs TV) about plans for the season and the direction the club is taking since the takeover.

Billy Whizz
15-08-2019, 09:01 AM
I was there last night. Very impressed with both Jim and LD. She mentioned that Aberdeen and our neighbours are having money shovelled into them by donors. Also that to sign McNulty and Omeonga would have cost the Club about £5m over a 3 year period and if we did have that money to spend on players, we wouldn’t be spending it on just those 2.

I left feeling positive about continuing my HSL donations, but I think there will be a tougher crowd at next weeks HSA meeting.

You can’t disagree with her thinking on spending that amount on 2 players

G B Young
15-08-2019, 09:24 AM
I was there last night. Very impressed with both Jim and LD. She mentioned that Aberdeen and our neighbours are having money shovelled into them by donors. Also that to sign McNulty and Omeonga would have cost the Club about £5m over a 3 year period and if we did have that money to spend on players, we wouldn’t be spending it on just those 2.

I left feeling positive about continuing my HSL donations, but I think there will be a tougher crowd at next weeks HSA meeting.

Presumably why the sheep are able to push the boat out more than us for guys like Ojo, while I'm guessing that this is where the cash comes for the yams to be able to shell out on a four-year deal for the (injured again) Naismith? Is it still the same donors who insist on a 'relaxed dress code' in the PBS directors 'box' (ie the section of seats in the one-tier, unfinished £18m stand where the directors happen to sit?)

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/ann-budge-hearts-benefactors-have-no-say-on-spend-but-have-one-condition-1-4845978

offshorehibby
15-08-2019, 09:45 AM
The HSL membership will be asked how they want their contributions to be managed, the obvious options are,

1. Shares
2. Playing budget
3. Infrastructure

I don’t think the directors could have been any more transparent stating it’s our organisation and the members will decide the future.

HSL membership continues to grow and fans continue to donate shares.



I couldn't make last nights meeting.

Was there any open descussuon on the above and what were the general thoughts of the people who did attend on the way forward for HSL

Daniel 1875
15-08-2019, 10:00 AM
I couldn't make last nights meeting.

Was there any open descussuon on the above and what were the general thoughts of the people who did attend on the way forward for HSL

General thoughts were that those donating to Hibernian Supporters would like to be able to decide where their donations go, via a number of strands as indicated above.

For example:
- Towards a share fund which would be in place if/when shares become available for purchase from the 17% of other shareholders or if there is another share issue in the future
- Towards the playing budget
- Towards infrastructure projects

Those were the three discussed last night and there will be an opportunity for anyone who couldn’t make it last night to give their views at next week’s meeting at the Hibs Club or to send your thoughts in by email to Jim and the Hibernian Supporters board.

Any proposals will be put to a vote of all HS members before any decisions are made, as I understand it this would be done via the website.

A few people suggested they’re quite happy to donate their money and allow the Hibs board to decide where this is spent, so perhaps a fourth option of ‘General monthly donation to club’ would be worthwhile too.

General feeling was that HS is here to stay and that hopefully allowing fans to decide where their cash goes will bring more people on board who perhaps didn’t agree with the original fan ownership/share purchase proposals.

weecounty hibby
15-08-2019, 10:05 AM
General thoughts were that those donating to Hibernian Supporters would like to be able to decide where their donations go, via a number of strands as indicated above.

For example:
- Towards a share fund which would be in place if/when shares become available for purchase from the 17% of other shareholders or if there is another share issue in the future
- Towards the playing budget
- Towards infrastructure projects

Those were the three discussed last night and there will be an opportunity for anyone who couldn’t make it last night to give their views at next week’s meeting at the Hibs Club or to send your thoughts in by email to Jim and the Hibernian Supporters board.

Any proposals will be put to a vote of all HS members before any decisions are made, as I understand it this would be done via the website.

A few people suggested they’re quite happy to donate their money and allow the Hibs board to decide where this is spent, so perhaps a fourth option of ‘General monthly donation to club’ would be worthwhile too.

General feeling was that HS is here to stay and that hopefully allowing fans to decide where their cash goes will bring more people on board who perhaps didn’t agree with the original fan ownership/share purchase proposals.
I really don't care how Hibs spend my money once HSL hand it over but one thing I would object strongly about is if we were to start buying up shares from others and my money going to them. I donate to improve Hibs, not to hand my money over to others

Daniel 1875
15-08-2019, 10:07 AM
I really don't care how Hibs spend my money once HSL hand it over but one thing I would object strongly about is if we were to start buying up shares from others and my money going to them. I donate to improve Hibs, not to hand my money over to others

I think that’s the idea behind giving the contributors the chance to decide where their money goes.

Some last night were happy to continue to donate to a share fund which would be in place to increase HS’s holding in the club as and when available. Others weren’t interested in the shares at all and just wanted to get a better team on the pitch every week.

Imo letting individuals decide where their money goes means that everyone can be content with what they are donating towards.

Billy Whizz
15-08-2019, 10:09 AM
Any detail on how much money HSL are sitting on

Torto7
15-08-2019, 11:53 AM
I'd love to see how LD estimated that MM and Omeonga would cost us 5m. It just seems a high figure for two players who were good for us but ultimately surplus to requirements at their clubs. I know from sparkies family that he was willing to take a big drop in wages but Reading were demanding high six figures. How much did the Belgium club pay for Steph?

Monktonhall 7
15-08-2019, 11:54 AM
Any detail on how much money HSL are sitting on

Approx £50k. They are currently bringing in £20k per month.

Billy Whizz
15-08-2019, 11:58 AM
Approx £50k. They are currently bringing in £20k per month.

Thanks, and I presume they will sit on it until a decision is made?

Juniper Greens
15-08-2019, 12:00 PM
I'd love to see how LD estimated that MM and Omeonga would cost us 5m. It just seems a high figure for two players who were good for us but ultimately surplus to requirements at their clubs. I know from sparkies family that he was willing to take a big drop in wages but Reading were demanding high six figures. How much did the Belgium club pay for Steph?

I very much doubt she would lie in that situation.
Even if a big drop was to say £5k a week, that would be quarter a mil per year.

Monktonhall 7
15-08-2019, 12:05 PM
Thanks, and I presume they will sit on it until a decision is made?

Absolutely.

Torto7
15-08-2019, 12:33 PM
I very much doubt she would lie in that situation.
Even if a big drop was to say £5k a week, that would be quarter a mil per year.

Oh I don't know. Chief Execs talk utter mince in my experience when it suits them. I'm filing this in the mince drawer.

Pagan Hibernia
15-08-2019, 01:03 PM
I really don't care how Hibs spend my money once HSL hand it over but one thing I would object strongly about is if we were to start buying up shares from others and my money going to them. I donate to improve Hibs, not to hand my money over to others

HSL means different things to different people. I donate to help increase supporter shareholding, and that would be my personal preference for how my donations are used.

Juniper Greens
15-08-2019, 01:29 PM
Oh I don't know. Chief Execs talk utter mince in my experience when it suits them. I'm filing this in the mince drawer.

Not sure she could in her role as a board member of HSL when addressing HSL shareholders.

4.5m rounded up to 5m she could get away with, but probably not much else.

10k between them on wages = 1.6m
£1m for the two of them transfer
Signing on fees of 100k each say
Massive increase in insurance premiums due to the at loss risk if injuries occur, (when compared wih the rest of the squad) let’s say another 300k a year.
Agents fees, 10% of everything bar insurance 300k.

That gets me to 3.4m. Pension and NI conts on top of that, I can probably believe it tbh

weecounty hibby
15-08-2019, 01:56 PM
HSL means different things to different people. I donate to help increase supporter shareholding, and that would be my personal preference for how my donations are used.

Even if that meant that your money was going to, for example me, rather than going to Hibs?

Pagan Hibernia
15-08-2019, 03:01 PM
Even if that meant that your money was going to, for example me, rather than going to Hibs?

yes. It was always great that HSL was money in the club’s hands as well as buying shares. Now that things have changed my priority is protecting HFCs long term future rather than sticking a few quid in a transfer kitty or whatever. Best way of doing that is to get as many shares in the hands of a supporters voting block as possible, where it will be guaranteed the vote will be used in the event of any mischief from RG or others.

crash
15-08-2019, 03:13 PM
Even if that meant that your money was going to, for example me, rather than going to Hibs?

Could the club not issue more shares for HSL to purchase?

Pagan Hibernia
15-08-2019, 03:15 PM
Could the club not issue more shares for HSL to purchase?

75% of the club would have to agree to a new share issue.

banchoryhibs
15-08-2019, 03:16 PM
Could the club not issue more shares for HSL to purchase?

That was suggested and Ron Gordon can be approached about this however he has stated that he does not wish to dilute his shareholding so it's unlikely that he'll agree to it.

crash
15-08-2019, 03:20 PM
That was suggested and Ron Gordon can be approached about this however he has stated that he does not wish to dilute his shareholding so it's unlikely that he'll agree to it.

Well he cant have it both ways, says he wants us to "Pony up", well this would be a way to get his wishes.

banchoryhibs
15-08-2019, 03:23 PM
The benefit of HSL holding 25.1% of the shareholding was discussed at some length. Whilst this will now be difficult to achieve it would provide a very high degree of protection should any majority shareholder wish to take some action that would ultimately damage our Club.

HSL's request that small shareholders donate the bulk of their holding to HSL has a great deal of merit!

One thing that I found out last night is that in the extremely unlikely event that HSL Members decide that its shareholding should be sold all of the proceeds would go to the Hibernian Community Foundation - nobody is out to make any money from their membership of HSL that's for sure!

banchoryhibs
15-08-2019, 03:28 PM
Well he cant have it both ways, says he wants us to "Pony up", well this would be a way to get his wishes.

Yes, it would.

Leeann and the other directors are convinced that Ron's intentions towards our Club are wholly honourable and I've no doubt that some detail of the new direction we're heading in will be made known soon. For example it was suggested that there may be an announcement about the improvements to HTC infrastructure shortly.

crash
15-08-2019, 03:31 PM
One thing that I found out last night is that in the extremely unlikely event that HSL Members decide that its shareholding should be sold all of the proceeds would go to the Hibernian Community Foundation - nobody is out to make any money from their membership of HSL that's for sure!
Was this in the constitution from the start, of not whose decision was that?

Heisenberg
15-08-2019, 03:42 PM
I was there last night. Very impressed with both Jim and LD. She mentioned that Aberdeen and our neighbours are having money shovelled into them by donors. Also that to sign McNulty and Omeonga would have cost the Club about £5m over a 3 year period and if we did have that money to spend on players, we wouldn’t be spending it on just those 2.

I left feeling positive about continuing my HSL donations, but I think there will be a tougher crowd at next weeks HSA meeting.

Definitely going to be a tougher crowd now after what Hecky has said about our transfer business.

Lago
15-08-2019, 03:47 PM
I was there last night. Very impressed with both Jim and LD. She mentioned that Aberdeen and our neighbours are having money shovelled into them by donors. Also that to sign McNulty and Omeonga would have cost the Club about £5m over a 3 year period and if we did have that money to spend on players, we wouldn’t be spending it on just those 2.

I left feeling positive about continuing my HSL donations, but I think there will be a tougher crowd at next weeks HSA meeting.

Of course they are having money shovelled into them, their contribution set up is much simpler & more appealing than HSL.

CentreLine
15-08-2019, 04:04 PM
The benefit of HSL holding 25.1% of the shareholding was discussed at some length. Whilst this will now be difficult to achieve it would provide a very high degree of protection should any majority shareholder wish to take some action that would ultimately damage our Club.

HSL's request that small shareholders donate the bulk of their holding to HSL has a great deal of merit!

One thing that I found out last night is that in the extremely unlikely event that HSL Members decide that its shareholding should be sold all of the proceeds would go to the Hibernian Community Foundation - nobody is out to make any money from their membership of HSL that's for sure!

Couldn't agree more. The 25.1% target was a critical part of what made HSL important. The failure of us, as supporters, to "pony up" enough to make that happen made things a lot more difficult for HSL to protect our back but not impossible. On that basis, I have just emailed HSL to offer them 4000 of my shares. I know I could give them almost all of my shares but I like the round number of 1000 to keep. I will be encouraging family members and friends to do something similar and then it will be up to them if they want to do that.

malcolm
15-08-2019, 04:08 PM
I don’t see why as a small time investor I’d need sell or gift my shares to hsl. Surely I can authorise hsl to proxy vote my shares in whatever way they think fit until I revoke that authority?

It is not ownership but voting rights that matter.

hibeg
15-08-2019, 04:16 PM
The problem with proxy is that the vast majority of small shareholders don’t use their vote or go to the AGM.
At the meeting last night it was stated that over a quarter of a million shares have been donated to HSL in the last few weeks. It later transpired that most of them came from one individual.
Approx 1 million shares equates to 1% of the share issue. It would take some time to get up to 25%
Also HSL do not know who holds the nominee shares ( approx 10%)

DanishJohn
15-08-2019, 04:26 PM
yes. It was always great that HSL was money in the club’s hands as well as buying shares. Now that things have changed my priority is protecting HFCs long term future rather than sticking a few quid in a transfer kitty or whatever. Best way of doing that is to get as many shares in the hands of a supporters voting block as possible, where it will be guaranteed the vote will be used in the event of any mischief from RG or others.

Yep this is how I see it. I very much want my money going to purchase further shares, when they come available.

It safeguards our club.

I thought last night went very well and very encouraging to learn that HSL has recruited new members during this period of change.

I think there is a lot for us to look forward to and there are shares out there to be had.

Perhaps showing my age here but if you lived through the period of the Mercer takeover bid you surely must recall saying when we were saved


Never Again !

DanishJohn
15-08-2019, 04:39 PM
The problem with proxy is that the vast majority of small shareholders don’t use their vote or go to the AGM.
At the meeting last night it was stated that over a quarter of a million shares have been donated to HSL in the last few weeks. It later transpired that most of them came from one individual.
Approx 1 million shares equates to 1% of the share issue. It would take some time to get up to 25%
Also HSL do not know who holds the nominee shares ( approx 10%)

Slightly have to disagree with you on this.

You are bang on regarding the small shareholders not voting etc

During the course of the evening I heard JA say HSL had already started receiving donations of shares from individuals. It was later during the meeting that an individual stated he had transferred over a quarter of a million shares.

Not trying to nitpick here but the shares are being transferred over from more than just one person.

I think I heard it right but no doubt someone may correct me if I'm wrong.

Daniel 1875
15-08-2019, 05:21 PM
Of course they are having money shovelled into them, their contribution set up is much simpler & more appealing than HSL.

The “money shovelled in” stuff was in relation to one or two individuals putting in huge sums of money at both clubs. It was more of a point to give fans the understanding that in addition to the fan initiatives at Hearts and Aberdeen, they are being heavily backed by individuals to the tune of millions.

hibeg
15-08-2019, 06:05 PM
Slightly have to disagree with you on this.

You are bang on regarding the small shareholders not voting etc

During the course of the evening I heard JA say HSL had already started receiving donations of shares from individuals. It was later during the meeting that an individual stated he had transferred over a quarter of a million shares.

Not trying to nitpick here but the shares are being transferred over from more than just one person.

I think I heard it right but no doubt someone may correct me if I'm wrong.

That’s why I said the majority came from a single shareholder. I think that’s pretty much correct.
My point really was that donations are not going to make much difference,for many years, unless HSL are donated shares from nominee holders, rather than hoovering up small shareholders shares.
Every share donation helps but in the real world the nominees hold the key, as they hold 10%

I know everything is up in the air at the moment but if the club gave HSL some publicity, then maybe others would consider contributing
20k a month contributions, with 40k in the bank, is great, but is dwarfed by Dons and Hearts.

malcolm
15-08-2019, 07:23 PM
The problem with proxy is that the vast majority of small shareholders don’t use their vote or go to the AGM.
At the meeting last night it was stated that over a quarter of a million shares have been donated to HSL in the last few weeks. It later transpired that most of them came from one individual.
Approx 1 million shares equates to 1% of the share issue. It would take some time to get up to 25%
Also HSL do not know who holds the nominee shares ( approx 10%)

If hsl could organise/publicise the opportunity for small shareholders to nominate hsl as their proxy then that they don’t attend is not relevant. It may perhaps be only of potential great value if there is something contentious to be voted on but publicising the possibility of such a mechanism in advance of its need is not a bad idea and might help to make the mobilising of support easier. Regardless of any immediate need, each proxy would I understand count as a vote for any vote decided by ordinary show of hands - so brings influence.

Ideally if small shareholders not currently using their vote could have a means to easily roll on their proxy authority to each successive meeting, without need for any specific direction of intent for each decision and meeting, this would add to hsl influence. I think fan ownership has a potential for chaos and indecision and believe fan influence through a mechanism like hsl can only be a success if there is general trust and belief that the mechanism (hsl in this case) would vote appropriately.

Sadly looking at the existing propensity to mistrust and to believe all the mis and disinformation around any ownership of Hibs it would be a hard slog.

Meanwhile I will trust in the good intentions of the new majority shareholder. I also don’t believe, unlike some, that he has any obligation to invest more money. Perhaps more relevant I hope he won’t lend in reckless fashion either.

Billy Whizz
15-08-2019, 07:27 PM
Any legal reason why we can’t donate to HSL on the e-ticketing website, yet we can donate to Hibernian Community
Just asking

Purple & Green
15-08-2019, 07:50 PM
Approx £50k. They are currently bringing in £20k per month.

This could be interpreted as not in accordance with the articles of association.

I think the notion that hsl can continue to take money from members, impacting on the existing members without increasing its shareholding is just messy. I’m happy to put money hibs way through a vehicle like hsl but not sure that collecting money for donation to hibs is a way forward, especially while LD sits on the hibs board and hsl board - that’s two hats and a bit messy for me.

I’m not getting my head round how new members can control the shareholding in hibs without ever having contributed to the buying of shares.

I don’t understand why RG did this this way.

Thinking out loud, rather than donate the money to hibs hsl could look into giving the club interest free loans for a set period - that way if RG does turn out to be less than straight then there is recourse to funding or debt to equity etc. Thinking out loud I might be happy with that.

Speedway
15-08-2019, 07:56 PM
Approx £50k. They are currently bringing in £20k per month.

So we’re giving our club roughly 10% of what FoH are giving theirs?

Lago
15-08-2019, 07:57 PM
The “money shovelled in” stuff was in relation to one or two individuals putting in huge sums of money at both clubs. It was more of a point to give fans the understanding that in addition to the fan initiatives at Hearts and Aberdeen, they are being heavily backed by individuals to the tune of millions.
I was under the impression that was what Ron was doing at Hibs??

Purple & Green
15-08-2019, 07:58 PM
Yes, it would.

Leeann and the other directors are convinced that Ron's intentions towards our Club are wholly honourable and I've no doubt that some detail of the new direction we're heading in will be made known soon. For example it was suggested that there may be an announcement about the improvements to HTC infrastructure shortly.

I can’t think why any of the directors would say different?

It’s no secret there will be improvements to HTC infrastructure - we are committed to them by 2020 as part of project brave.

Salisbury Hibby
15-08-2019, 08:05 PM
Well he cant have it both ways, says he wants us to "Pony up", well this would be a way to get his wishes.Absolutely - No donation without representation :)

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Hibbyradge
15-08-2019, 08:11 PM
Oh I don't know. Chief Execs talk utter mince in my experience when it suits them. I'm filing this in the mince drawer.

It sounds like mince to me too.

Even if each player cost £1m to buy, it would leave £3m in wages or £1m per year, £0.5m each or £10k a week.

And I doubt both players were valued at £1m each.

Lago
15-08-2019, 08:52 PM
It sounds like mince to me too.

Even if each player cost £1m to buy, it would leave £3m in wages or £1m per year, £0.5m each or £10k a week.

And I doubt both players were valued at £1m each.

Smoke and mirrors

tamig
15-08-2019, 09:30 PM
I can’t think why any of the directors would say different?

It’s no secret there will be improvements to HTC infrastructure - we are committed to them by 2020 as part of project brave.

What are the 2020 Project Brave requirements? I’ve still to see anything stating a full sized indoor pitch is needed to retain elite status. Are you talking about other improvements? If so, what?

Pagan Hibernia
15-08-2019, 10:32 PM
So we’re giving our club roughly 10% of what FoH are giving theirs?

Yep. There’s all sorts of reasons why that’s the case but those are the naked facts.

#2 Double Tap
15-08-2019, 10:45 PM
Yep. There’s all sorts of reasons why that’s the case but those are the naked facts.

The reason that HSL failed to attract the numbers, and really the reason it has failed, is because it was the club who set the whole scheme up, if it had been an independent entity with people elected to run it, it would have been much more successful IMO.

People underestimate how much hatred their was for Rod Petrie, and more importantly how hardly anyone, except the happy clappers trusted him.........all the money hibs took in under his reign, people where suspicious of where it all went. Obviously they seen the stadium and east mains, but there was a feeling that the money was not all going on those things......after all he was an accountant and their job is to hide the money, that is why HSL only gives 10% of what FOH generates.

Viva_Palmeiras
15-08-2019, 11:58 PM
I was there last night. Very impressed with both Jim and LD. She mentioned that Aberdeen and our neighbours are having money shovelled into them by donors. Also that to sign McNulty and Omeonga would have cost the Club about £5m over a 3 year period and if we did have that money to spend on players, we wouldn’t be spending it on just those 2.

I left feeling positive about continuing my HSL donations, but I think there will be a tougher crowd at next weeks HSA meeting.

If you’re a Hearts fan and organised to save the club but realised if you kept your powder dry until Roman-offskid the.ln could pump in money (presum these donations are not subject to tax? So more efficient way of putting money into the club? What’s better £380 for a season ticket of £380 for a donation out of interes (tax wise it costs/admin?)

Geo_1875
16-08-2019, 03:57 AM
The reason that HSL failed to attract the numbers, and really the reason it has failed, is because it was the club who set the whole scheme up, if it had been an independent entity with people elected to run it, it would have been much more successful IMO.

People underestimate how much hatred their was for Rod Petrie, and more importantly how hardly anyone, except the happy clappers trusted him.........all the money hibs took in under his reign, people where suspicious of where it all went. Obviously they seen the stadium and east mains, but there was a feeling that the money was not all going on those things......after all he was an accountant and their job is to hide the money, that is why HSL only gives 10% of what FOH generates.

FoH didn't have a group of Hearts supporters actively campaigning against them. That's one of the reasons FoH brings in 10X more than HSL

tonyrougier123
16-08-2019, 04:16 AM
Why is what foh are doing always a measuring stick for hsl donations?

DanishJohn
16-08-2019, 06:03 AM
Why is what foh are doing always a measuring stick for hsl donations?


Well if you think about it, Hearts and Hibs are comparable in size of supports.
Both supports have desires and ambitions what they want from their club.

Hearts supporters donate a lot more money to their club than what Hibs supporters do.
(Forget the very wealthy ones and the quoted £4 Million figure.)
I am just talking about the 8000 contributing members, all ordinary guys who are putting in over a million a year.

Now because Hearts get a lot more money from their fans, they have more income than Hibs.
That in turns puts them in a better position than Hibs ie they can if they so wish operate a bigger player budget than Hibs.They might just be able to buy any player Hibs might be chasing. They can do this because they have more money than Hibs.

If they get really lucky and then get a good manager then it's take off for them.

We have to accept that they will probably start finishing above us.

I could of course be talking bollocks.

Think of this though. In the 1960s Everton and Liverpool shared a city and both had comparable supports
They were on a par for success.Both viewed as equals.

Fast forward to 2019.

jacomo
16-08-2019, 07:43 AM
I don’t see why as a small time investor I’d need sell or gift my shares to hsl. Surely I can authorise hsl to proxy vote my shares in whatever way they think fit until I revoke that authority?

It is not ownership but voting rights that matter.


Jim wants 25% so he can get a seat at the big table.

jacomo
16-08-2019, 08:09 AM
It sounds like mince to me too.

Even if each player cost £1m to buy, it would leave £3m in wages or £1m per year, £0.5m each or £10k a week.

And I doubt both players were valued at £1m each.


I can imagine McNulty wanting £10k a week (maybe basic wage would be lower but inc bonuses etc). He’s on loan at Sunderland so presumably no one met Reading’s valuation, but they would surely be looking to recoup close to £1m for him.

Omeonga listed on transfermarkt (I know) with a transfer value of £1.62m.

LD might have rounded up to £5m but it doesn’t seem implausible.

This is why we are in the loan market: the quality of player we want costs too much money.

hibeg
16-08-2019, 09:13 AM
Jim wants 25% so he can get a seat at the big table.

Unfair to single him out. If it ever came to it, a HSL member would have to be voted in by the membership.
The guy appears to work hard, but if farting against thunder with the negativity towards HSL by a vocal band of Hibs fans
As others have stated, Hearts bring in about 100k per month from 8000 fans. We bring in 20k from 2500 fans. We have 40k in the bank

If more fans contributed then we would generate more money, simple.

Also if HSL built up a war chest of cash then this could be used if another share issue was ever forthcoming.
I know that wouldn’t appease guys who want money to go to the team, but many others are concerned about the possibility that the current 23% of shares owned by HSL and small shareholders could be diluted!

Purple & Green
16-08-2019, 02:47 PM
What are the 2020 Project Brave requirements? I’ve still to see anything stating a full sized indoor pitch is needed to retain elite status. Are you talking about other improvements? If so, what?

Specifically the indoor pitch, and looking back the club have been talking about installing it a long time before RG came on the scene.

However, on going to see what the specifics are of Elite status, there's nothing from CAS criteria online. If you have a copy of the CAS criteria I'd be interested to see what it says, there's plenty of chatter online from various clubs not looking to attain Elite academy status specifically because of the requirement of an indoor pitch.

Purple & Green
16-08-2019, 02:49 PM
Unfair to single him out. If it ever came to it, a HSL member would have to be voted in by the membership.
The guy appears to work hard, but if farting against thunder with the negativity towards HSL by a vocal band of Hibs fans
As others have stated, Hearts bring in about 100k per month from 8000 fans. We bring in 20k from 2500 fans. We have 40k in the bank

If more fans contributed then we would generate more money, simple.

Also if HSL built up a war chest of cash then this could be used if another share issue was ever forthcoming.
I know that wouldn’t appease guys who want money to go to the team, but many others are concerned about the possibility that the current 23% of shares owned by HSL and small shareholders could be diluted!

Loan the money to the club for now, interest free, in exchange for first option in any future share issue. Everyones a winner, HSL can commit to owning more shares, and Hibs get cash in the here and now. Whats not to like?

OfficialHSL
16-08-2019, 03:06 PM
Jim wants 25% so he can get a seat at the big table.

Jacomo

I don't ever recall speaking to you about this but if I have perhaps you could remind me.

As a Director of an Organisation whose principle objective is to acquire as many shares in the Club as possible I'm not sure what our Members would expect me to do, other than pursue that objective.

In particular, achieving an ownership stake of 20% entitles Hibernian Supporters to nominate someone to the Board of the Club. That can can only be achieved with an ownership stake, nothing else.

As other posters have already stated on here, things aren't really terribly complicated. If you have spare cash that you won't miss and you feel you want to provide some additional financial support to your Club, donate to us.

That's what the Hearts, Aberdeen and Motherwell folks are doing.

www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk


Jim Adie

marinello59
16-08-2019, 03:10 PM
Jacomo

I don't ever recall speaking to you about this but if I have perhaps you could remind me.

As a Director of an Organisation whose principle objective is to acquire as many shares in the Club as possible I'm not sure what our Members would expect me to do, other than pursue that objective.

In particular, achieving an ownership stake of 20% entitles Hibernian Supporters to nominate someone to the Board of the Club. That can can only be achieved with an ownership stake, nothing else.

As other posters have already stated on here, things aren't really terribly complicated. If you have spare cash that you won't miss and you feel you want to provide some additional financial support to your Club, donate to us.

That's what the Hearts, Aberdeen and Motherwell folks are doing.

www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk


Jim Adie

Given the way the ability to purchase shares to meet that objective ended has there been any approach to the new owner to grant HSL a seat on the board now?

Billy Whizz
16-08-2019, 03:13 PM
Jim, can you please have a look at my post of page 2, asking why fans can’t donate on the e-ticketing page, but can donate to the Hibernian Foundation Community!

Hibbyradge
16-08-2019, 03:21 PM
Smoke and mirrors

Is that the same as mince? :dunno:

OfficialHSL
16-08-2019, 03:31 PM
Given the way the ability to purchase shares to meet that objective ended has there been any approach to the new owner to grant HSL a seat on the board now?

Marinello59

We have met with Ron only twice, once very briefly.

To be fair to him he has asked us, along with everyone else, to give himself the chance to get his feet under the table and get to know people, processes, history etc before doing anything. To us that seemed a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

While achieving representation would be good for our Members and indeed being able to achieve a 25.1% stake would be excellent, our biggest desire is to simply drive up Membership. Aberdeen fans are donating an extra £500,000 to their Club.From around February our friends across the City will have the option of giving their Club an extra £1.2m per year. There is not a lot of money is floating around Scottish football so if fans, who can afford to do so, feel they want to provide some addition funding then why not. If others don't want to, that of course is their prerogative. We can make this as complicated as we want it but it really boils down to that.


Hibernian Supporters

marinello59
16-08-2019, 03:33 PM
Marinello59

We have met with Ron only twice, once very briefly.

To be fair to him he has asked us, along with everyone else, to give himself the chance to get his feet under the table and get to know people, processes, history etc before doing anything. To us that seemed a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

While achieving representation would be good for our Members and indeed being able to achieve a 25.1% stake would be excellent, our biggest desire is to simply drive up Membership. Aberdeen fans are donating an extra £500,000 to their Club.From around February our friends across the City will have the option of giving their Club an extra £1.2m per year. There is not a lot of money is floating around Scottish football so if fans, who can afford to do so, feel they want to provide some addition funding then why not. If others don't want to, that of course is their prerogative. We can make this as complicated as we want it but it really boils down to that.


Hibernian Supporters

Thanks for the answer.

OfficialHSL
16-08-2019, 03:33 PM
Jim, can you please have a look at my post of page 2, asking why fans can’t donate on the e-ticketing page, but can donate to the Hibernian Foundation Community!

Billy

We are not really sure why. Would you mind emailing us a screenshot of this. We have asked the Club on previous occasions if we could be included in the Season Purchase process and that request is still there.


Hibernian Supporters

Turkish Green
16-08-2019, 03:37 PM
As others have stated, Hearts bring in about 100k per month from 8000 fans. We bring in 20k from 2500 fans. We have 40k in the bank


Using my ready reckoner that equates to £12.5 head/month for the yams and £8 head/month for us. We just need to up the ante and/or alternatively increase the number of fans donating.

Where the difference lies is that due to going into administration, Hearts had a clear goal for the yams to contribute. For me, Hibs not going into administration has meant that many supporters have assumed that there will always be a rich benevolent benefactor looking after the financial good will of the club.

Farmer & Petrie (thank God) have gone but I am still to be convinced on RG's agenda for the club. Not all are like the Bunnet.

Billy Whizz
16-08-2019, 03:38 PM
Billy

We are not really sure why. Would you mind emailing us a screenshot of this. We have asked the Club on previous occasions if we could be included in the Season Purchase process and that request is still there.


Hibernian Supporters

I’ll email it to you. You have to buy a ticket, then it asks if you want to donate various amounts

Should be with you now

OfficialHSL
16-08-2019, 03:38 PM
Loan the money to the club for now, interest free, in exchange for first option in any future share issue. Everyones a winner, HSL can commit to owning more shares, and Hibs get cash in the here and now. Whats not to like?

Purple& Green

It's not as simple as that :

1. Our Articles do not permit us to lend any money to anyone

2. We have not had any real sense from Members that this is a route they would want to pursue. Most seem to want to just donate

3. We have no reason to believe the Club would want to borrow money.

Hibernian Supporters

superfurryhibby
16-08-2019, 03:56 PM
Yep. There’s all sorts of reasons why that’s the case but those are the naked facts.

They actually aren't.

The figures are actually c £120000/ month. A significant amount of money nonetheless, but lets not indulge them too much with gross exaggeration. There are also a whole load of rewards attached to donation which( will make the final net worth a bit less too.

Hibs fans will give more, but we need the scheme to be right. So does the direction of travel from our new owner. First team first, infrastructure can wait.

Purple & Green
16-08-2019, 05:22 PM
Purple& Green

It's not as simple as that :

1. Our Articles do not permit us to lend any money to anyone

2. We have not had any real sense from Members that this is a route they would want to pursue. Most seem to want to just donate

3. We have no reason to believe the Club would want to borrow money.

Hibernian Supporters

1. The articles don't permit you to donate money either do they?

2. I would humbly suggest you take Independent legal advice on that - we've just been taken over and have no idea of the direction of travel. I'd be amazed if any other fans ownership group is donating money to a football club. Taking money from new members for no tangible return impacts on the existing members - the more I think about it, donating money to the club is a mental proposition which is asking for a trouble.

3. But they would take donations from stakeholders? Read what you are saying and proposing? - I hope the club have the good sense to see the negative impact on HSL this would bring and refuse to accept donations.

I appreciate you are working really hard to keep HSL relevant and trying to build momentum, but please think again.

Just Alf
16-08-2019, 05:55 PM
1. The articles don't permit you to donate money either do they?

2. I would humbly suggest you take Independent legal advice on that - we've just been taken over and have no idea of the direction of travel. I'd be amazed if any other fans ownership group is donating money to a football club. Taking money from new members for no tangible return impacts on the existing members - the more I think about it, donating money to the club is a mental proposition which is asking for a trouble.

3. But they would take donations from stakeholders? Read what you are saying and proposing? - I hope the club have the good sense to see the negative impact on HSL this would bring and refuse to accept donations.

I appreciate you are working really hard to keep HSL relevant and trying to build momentum, but please think again.Not sure about the rest but from early on there's always been an option to use HSL to donate rather than buy shares, this was to give a vehicle for those that were against fan ownership but still wanted to contribute to the playing budget.

Was clunky at the start needing to arrange things via email etc but I'm sure I saw somewhere there's now a link on their website with that option.

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