As funny as last night is, why are Scottish clubs so bad in Europe?

[Antifa Hibs]

Obviously money comes into it when you're up against the "elite" teams but even against teams in leagues similar or worse to our own why do we struggle so much as a country to compete in European football competitions?

[Diclonius]

Scotland's TV deal is the fourth worst in Europe after Romania, Austria and Russia, and has actually gone DOWN compared to what it used to be. That's why.

[sean04]

Celtics wage bill is more than the 14 top flight teams in Romania. Terrible result

[Onceinawhile]

Lack of money and having a behemoth of a league next to us unfortunately.

Also, I worry that the next generation of kids aren't being brought up to support Scottish football clubs, I had a 2014s training session last night and out of the c.30 kids there was only two wearing a Scottish team's strip (Hibs and Celtic at 1 a piece). There was however plenty english teams, german teams, Barca, Real and even PSG strips.

If we aren't putting money into our clubs, how can we expect them to compete?

[Kojock]

It's every other SPL teams fault for not providing enough competition.

[weecounty hibby]

The old firm. That is the high level issue but they are the biggest problem. We will at some point over the next few days hear about a lack of competition for them in Scotland. But they fail to see the irony of that when they hoover up any talent from other clubs and then often have them playing for the stiffs. See Allan Scott, Riordan Derek as just two examples from us alone.

[Jones28]

For me the lack of money argument doesn’t work here. Celtic just got £25million for an academy graduate - it’s basically money for very very little input. Last nights result is a shocker, worse than our defeat to Malmo IMO, up there with rangers going out to that team from Luxemburg (Progres?).

We - as in everyone else - receive paltry sums in transfers fees and from tv, meaning we simply can’t afford the quality required to compete - which is why we went out last season.

[FilipinoHibs]

I think we have fallen behind in sports science, technical training of new skills and the culture of what it takes to excel mat sport.

If Scotland can produce a world class and world beating tennis player from a small nation that dies not even play tennis then we should be able to do so with football.

I would get Judy Murray to take a critical look at what we do. She rejected the LTA and sent Andy to Barcelona. She travelled the world to look at the latest coaching techniques and brought it back to Scotland. Worth a go. We need somebody to disrupt what we are doing.

[Cataplana]

We often meet teams from places like Scandinavia, who are in the middle of their season. It's probable that if we met them a month later we would progress to the group stages.

There may be a strong argument for summer football in Scotland. As it is our season starts in July anyway. Why not put that back a month, and finish in March/April instead?

[weecounty hibby]

The SFA/SPFL as well. Pandering to the OF at any opportunity, selling Scottish football as the OF plus a load of others instead of as a whole. The history and tradition of clubs like Hibs, hearts, Aberdeen etc are completely ignored. Consider the history etc of ours against a Bournemouth. Consider our average attendance against a Bournemouth. Why is it then that they are paid multi millions and used in selling Sky to the masses. Whenever Scottish football is being sold it's all about celtic and rangers. Sickening. Not sure I'm making my point too well but hopefully someone will understand

[G B Young]

There's no great mystery. Scottish football, unfortunately, isn't very good - and has not been for a long time now. Because of that there are very few players or managers/coaches involved in our game who have much experience or expertise when it comes to competing in Europe. It will be interesting to see how Rangers progress in Europe under Gerrard this season. He remains a rookie manager but brings with him a wealth of European/world experience at club and international level.

As for the players, well, the national side's record over the last quarter of a century speaks for itself and shows that we simply don't have enough quality Scottish players to make a mark outwith our domestic club competitions. However, even at club level, where there are plenty of non-Scots involved, the budgets clubs are working with simply don't allow for signings of the quality required.

[Antifa Hibs]

Scotland's TV deal is the fourth worst in Europe after Romania, Austria and Russia, and has actually gone DOWN compared to what it used to be. That's why.

And yet teams from those countries have quite comfortably beat Scottish opposition in European competitions in the last few years?

For all our TV deal isn't the best, our ticket revenue and crowds will be much higher to compensate.

Celtic average 57000 a season. Tickets are £30+ compared to Cluj who average about the same as Killie and charge 4 quid!

Aberdeen average 15000 and tickets probably £25, Rijeka average 4000 and I couldn't find ticket prices for them but a Dinamo Zagreb SEASON ticket is £50.

They may make a million or more from TV but i'd imagine we'll turnover around the same or more in most cases. I include us v Molde in that so i'm not being biased ;)

[lyonhibs]

Because the pace and intensity of our league is so, on average, "helter skelter get the ball up top ASAP or you'll have someone on your ankles in a second" that when we come up against teams that play in a league where the style and pace of play is much more technical and the average player, especially midfield and up top, has such a better touch that getting a chasing from teams that, based on name alone, Scottish teams "should" be beating is almost inevitable.

It won't be changing any time soon either.

[Phil MaGlass]

Its a mix of all the above,
Scottish fitba is undersold as pointed out hy that boy to the SFA a couple of years ago.
Sports science, technical training of new skills,
SFA pandering to OF for the sake of TV and ignoring the rest,
Our season not starting early enough,
**** managers that are stuck in the past.
Small countries like Croatia can provide the world with world class players, how the hell can we not.

[DH1875]

Scotland's TV deal is the fourth worst in Europe after Romania, Austria and Russia, and has actually gone DOWN compared to what it used to be. That's why.

So do the Welsh and Irish leagues have a better TV deal than us? What about places like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuanian etc.... Do they genuinely have a better TV deal than Russia? Genuine question cause if its true, I find that amazing.

[James Stephen]

Because the default style in Europe is better - more technical, more suited to European refs, posession style suits two legged competition.

As long as Scottish football (including us fans by the way, who still groan and demand 'get stuck in') exists in a technical and intellectual time warp, I think we will always be left behind.

I also think the old firm are part of the problem, as they are so obsessed with beating one another, that they do not focus on more progressive styles. Celtic under rodgers were an exception, but now they have reverted back to a 'tried and trusted' type

[Keith_M]

Is it because all the others countries produce better players?

[SRHibs]

So do the Welsh and Irish leagues have a better TV deal than us? What about places like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuanian etc.... Do they genuinely have a better TV deal than Russia? Genuine question cause if its true, I find that amazing.

Na, there was a list of the 20 top deals quoted and we were 16th. It's not as bad as people make out.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_domestic_football_league_broadcast_deals_b y_country

[Antifa Hibs]

Na, there was a list of the 20 top deals quoted and we were 16th. It's not as bad as people make out.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_domestic_football_league_broadcast_deals_b y_country

And thats for the world. Take out Canada/USA and Brazil and we'd be 14th in Europe. We're actually 8th in the value per game aswell. Some countries may be getting more TV cash for the season but that's for broadcasting anything from 150 live games to the whole season for each team. We only broadcast 48 games per season.

As others have pointed out i think its our mentality as a country and technical ability. See kids football training sessions now and its the same drills they're doing still as I was back in 1991 - games evolved just slightly since then...

[The 90+2]

Lack of preparation. Most teams start with **** loads of new players in the summer not ready for big competitive games. I’ve no idea why Celtic especially don’t spend the big bucks in January to mould a team to play the qualifiers. Other teams like Killie come up against teams that know how to play two legged football and have done for years and years and one out of ten they will win a qualifier against a bigger team.

Celtic looked a shambles last night. They should be building on what made them successful last season instead of trying all new kind of ****.

[The 90+2]

So do the Welsh and Irish leagues have a better TV deal than us? What about places like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuanian etc.... Do they genuinely have a better TV deal than Russia? Genuine question cause if its true, I find that amazing.

Are the Welsh and Irish leagues at the beginning of their season? You usually find regardless of how small the team is from they countries it’s the same ones over and over again in the competition playing over two legs, finding ways to snatch wins with managers who have played or managed lots of competitive football in Europe even if the majority of they games are pumpings.

[greenlad]

Because the default style in Europe is better - more technical, more suited to European refs, posession style suits two legged competition.

As long as Scottish football (including us fans by the way, who still groan and demand 'get stuck in') exists in a technical and intellectual time warp, I think we will always be left behind.

I also think the old firm are part of the problem, as they are so obsessed with beating one another, that they do not focus on more progressive styles. Celtic under rodgers were an exception, but now they have reverted back to a 'tried and trusted' type

This is it in a nutshell. You could also add the prevailing attitude in this country that football's "still a physical game" which manifests itself in the playing style of most teams, and also the refereeing. We get a domestic product more akin to rugby or the English lower leagues derided so much, than to the technical skillfest of a top Champions League game.

This differential means that we are nearly always badly exposed when coming up against more technical teams from so-called lesser nations. The game has moved on, but Scotland hasn't.

The TV deal excuse is nearly a complete red herring and improvement will only come when we up the skill level of our players and leagues, that way we'll be able to sell players to English clubs for more money and get a better TV deal for a more attractive product. Even with incremental improvement in that way we'll never compete with the top leagues in a commercial sense, although I don't think we'd want to anyway.

We should aspire to match the likes of Croatia, Portugal & Slovakia. All small countries with a lower GDP and dominated by a couple of larger clubs so doubt there is great broadcast revenue but the calibre of players produced is consistently better than ours over a period.

[Ozyhibby]

I think it’s down to the fact we play a very different game. The tackles, challenges and all round physicality of the game in Scotland is very different to what is played in Europe. Things that our refs let go would not be tolerated in Europe or England for that matter.
This encourages teams here to go for more physical players both in their academy recruitment and their first team recruitment. And when they go to play against European teams with European refs it is difficult to change your style of play with less technical players.


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[ballengeich]

Are our clubs really doing so badly for a country our size? We're currently 19th in the UEFA ranking. The only higher-placed countries with a smaller population are Cyprus and Croatia. Below us you'll find a number of bigger countries such as Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Switzerland et al.

What's more worrying is the lack of Scots playing in the top European leagues. There's a few in England, but the only one I can think of who's outside the UK is Liam Henderson.

[Sammy7nil]

It's every other SPL teams fault for not providing enough competition.


The old firm. That is the high level issue but they are the biggest problem. We will at some point over the next few days hear about a lack of competition for them in Scotland. But they fail to see the irony of that when they hoover up any talent from other clubs and then often have them playing for the stiffs. See Allan Scott, Riordan Derek as just two examples from us alone.


Both those are correct listen to sportssound tonight it ia cert to be mentioned. They dont do irony.


There's no great mystery. Scottish football, unfortunately, isn't very good - and has not been for a long time now. Because of that there are very few players or managers/coaches involved in our game who have much experience or expertise when it comes to competing in Europe. It will be interesting to see how Rangers progress in Europe under Gerrard this season. He remains a rookie manager but brings with him a wealth of European/world experience at club and international level.

As for the players, well, the national side's record over the last quarter of a century speaks for itself and shows that we simply don't have enough quality Scottish players to make a mark outwith our domestic club competitions. However, even at club level, where there are plenty of non-Scots involved, the budgets clubs are working with simply don't allow for signings of the quality required.


Lennon has a wealth of experience as a player and manager in Europe he got it wrong. Simples

[broondog]

Because our league has been on a downward spiral and is garbage now compared to other European leagues which have seen the opposite.prty simple reely

[#2 Double Tap]

it is because we have below average managers and the biggest factor is clubs lack the foresight to sign players who will be sold on for profit.....when we sell players for big money, it is never reinvested in the team, so the teams will never progress......

people say it is impossible to do it but you have to speculate to accumulate IMO, for example think back to mcarthy and mcarthur at hamilton or naismith and boyd at killie.......even last year Kamara at dundee was there for the taking........why a club like HIBS was not signing these players to then sell on for double is why we never progress like other european teams.

[ancient hibee]

Lack of preparation. Most teams start with **** loads of new players in the summer not ready for big competitive games. I’ve no idea why Celtic especially don’t spend the big bucks in January to mould a team to play the qualifiers. Other teams like Killie come up against teams that know how to play two legged football and have done for years and years and one out of ten they will win a qualifier against a bigger team.

Celtic looked a shambles last night. They should be building on what made them successful last season instead of trying all new kind of ****.

Celtic should have signed a quality left back in January as they knew Tierney would be leaving.Instead they rushed into buying someone who was terrible in the tie last week and couldn’t be risked this week.Suspect Lawell will be “taking up interesting opportunities” outside Celtic in the not too distant
future as their recruitment has been pretty poor in the last couple of years.

[The 90+2]

Celtic should have signed a quality left back in January as they knew Tierney would be leaving.Instead they rushed into buying someone who was terrible in the tie last week and couldn’t be risked this week.Suspect Lawell will be “taking up interesting opportunities” outside Celtic in the not too distant
future as their recruitment has been pretty poor in the last couple of years.

Yep. They sit about being reactive instead of proactively knowing Tierney was off. Their signing policy has been honkin’ recently meanwhile the huns have caught up big time. Again they had years to sort it out and especially last January to build for the summer - maybe Brendan didn’t give a ***** though.

[chrisski33]

Because scottish football is pish and alot of folk wont admit it. Yes we maybe have 2 or 3 good players at the moment but in general Scottish clubs dont do well in Europe because Scottish football isnt good. Simples really

[wookie70]

The obvious answer is money but I think our style of football which is encouraged by referees is a factor. Take Aberdeen, the third best team in the country. They kick their way through the league every year and hardly ever get men sent off and usually get a dodgy tackle for about 3 or 4 players before the ref decides to book the next bad tackle which is often an opposition player(especially if they are playing Hibs)

Europe comes round and they have to completely change their style. The Rangers have done pretty well in Europe since their return and that is probably due to not having to change their style. Hibs under Lennon didn't do too badly and again we didn't need to change our style. Celtc don't do that badly but are up against decent sides generally.

I think Scottish Football needs to start punishing the hackers and making our product better to watch which may also make us a few more quid from a better TV deal.

[ScottB]

I think there’s still a bit of a dismissive attitude towards the former Soviet bloc nations from our game. Most of them are now markedly better than we are, but I suspect some folk still expect to run over them with ease.

[CMurdoch]

Celtic simply shot themselves in the foot time after time on Tuesday night

In the team selection they took McGregor out of the midfield and put him at full back
McGregor runs the show and keeps the structure of the team together.
Without McGregor, Brown struggles.
Hayes should have been played at left back and McGregor should have played in the midfield.

During the game the absence of McGregor in the midfield was an issue as per the above
and as a result a very average team were able to drag the Celtic backline all over the place.

The other major issue in the defeat was Brown giving a FREE penalty and goal to Cluj by choosing to handle the ball in the box for no reason.
A psychological weakness in the player much like Mackies hand ball on Sunday.

Celtics forward players were magnificent in the 2nd half but soft goals 2 and 3 for Cluj as a result of the above issues simply gave the game away.
I felt sorry for Christie, Eduard and Forrest who couldn't have played any better when Celtic started to go for it in the 2nd half.

The loss was absolutely nothing to do with issues or weaknesses with the Scottish game.

[jgl07]

It's every other SPL teams fault for not providing enough competition.

And they continue to sell their best players to sit on the bench at Parkhead or Ibrox.

What a load of ********s!

[Hibeesmad]

People outwith Scotland only pay interest to Celtic & Rangers. If McGinn was previously a Celtic player they would have sold him for £10m+

[Onion]

Poor quality players and managers, and far too much focus on domestic issues. Sevco and Celtic and obsessed with each other and 10IAR, Yams can only get it up 4 times a season, Aberdeen are stuck in the 1980s, and other clubs including Hibs lack experience.

[heretoday]

Poor quality players. Look at the class of guy we used to employ back in the day and look at the average joes we're lumbered with now. Celtic are the same albeit on a slightly raised level. If they had got through the other night Slavia would have gubbed them in the next round. The rich have got richer to the detriment of everyone else.

[Antifa Hibs]

The obvious answer is money but I think our style of football which is encouraged by referees is a factor. Take Aberdeen, the third best team in the country. They kick their way through the league every year and hardly ever get men sent off and usually get a dodgy tackle for about 3 or 4 players before the ref decides to book the next bad tackle which is often an opposition player(especially if they are playing Hibs)

Europe comes round and they have to completely change their style. The Rangers have done pretty well in Europe since their return and that is probably due to not having to change their style. Hibs under Lennon didn't do too badly and again we didn't need to change our style. Celtc don't do that badly but are up against decent sides generally.

I think Scottish Football needs to start punishing the hackers and making our product better to watch which may also make us a few more quid from a better TV deal.

Money to a certain extend but Ajax last season had a smaller wage bill and smaller turnover than Celtic. They pumped Madrid over two legs and were about 8 seconds away from a Champions League final.

Rest of post is spot on.

[Crazyhorse]

Money to a certain extend but Ajax last season had a smaller wage bill and smaller turnover than Celtic. They pumped Madrid over two legs and were about 8 seconds away from a Champions League final.

Rest of post is spot on.

Your substantive point is pretty much spot on but let’s not compare that pile of fly sh it with a truly great football club.

[theonlywayisup]

The obvious answer is money but I think our style of football which is encouraged by referees is a factor. Take Aberdeen, the third best team in the country. They kick their way through the league every year and hardly ever get men sent off and usually get a dodgy tackle for about 3 or 4 players before the ref decides to book the next bad tackle which is often an opposition player(especially if they are playing Hibs)

Europe comes round and they have to completely change their style. The Rangers have done pretty well in Europe since their return and that is probably due to not having to change their style. Hibs under Lennon didn't do too badly and again we didn't need to change our style. Celtc don't do that badly but are up against decent sides generally.

I think Scottish Football needs to start punishing the hackers and making our product better to watch which may also make us a few more quid from a better TV deal.

Fully agree. I can think of May's assault on Boyle, Cochrane's on McGinn and the St. Johnstone player's tackle again on McGinn as tackles that should have been reds. Instead they were a "take one for the team" yellow. But all were dangerous tackles and prevented an attack on goals.

[GonzoReturns]

The obvious answer is money but I think our style of football which is encouraged by referees is a factor. Take Aberdeen, the third best team in the country. They kick their way through the league every year and hardly ever get men sent off and usually get a dodgy tackle for about 3 or 4 players before the ref decides to book the next bad tackle which is often an opposition player(especially if they are playing Hibs)


Europe comes round and they have to completely change their style. The Rangers have done pretty well in Europe since their return and that is probably due to not having to change their style. Hibs under Lennon didn't do too badly and again we didn't need to change our style. Celtc don't do that badly but are up against decent sides generally.

I think Scottish Football needs to start punishing the hackers and making our product better to watch which may also make us a few more quid from a better TV deal.

Until we fundamentally change our whole approach to how the game is coached/played/refereed we will continue to struggle in Europe both at club level and international level.

[Ozyhibby]

The obvious answer is money but I think our style of football which is encouraged by referees is a factor. Take Aberdeen, the third best team in the country. They kick their way through the league every year and hardly ever get men sent off and usually get a dodgy tackle for about 3 or 4 players before the ref decides to book the next bad tackle which is often an opposition player(especially if they are playing Hibs)

Europe comes round and they have to completely change their style. The Rangers have done pretty well in Europe since their return and that is probably due to not having to change their style. Hibs under Lennon didn't do too badly and again we didn't need to change our style. Celtc don't do that badly but are up against decent sides generally.

I think Scottish Football needs to start punishing the hackers and making our product better to watch which may also make us a few more quid from a better TV deal.

100% correct imo.


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[Hi Heid Yin]

Continental teams are in the main often littered with more technically-gifted players with pace and who appear to move the ball effortlessly from teammate to teammate.
They know how to slow down and speed up a game, when to make those penetrating runs, how to be patient and when to strike. Their speed of thought coupled with their technical ability allows for one-touch football in tight areas, conjuring up goals seemingly out of nothing.
Scottish football can be exciting, but the "100MPH up-and-at-em, gung-ho" approach is often trumped by the "possession-based, incisive, clinical" football of our European counterparts.

[HibsGW]

Continental teams are in the main often littered with more technically-gifted players with pace and who appear to move the ball effortlessly from teammate to teammate.
They know how to slow down and speed up a game, when to make those penetrating runs, how to be patient and when to strike. Their speed of thought coupled with their technical ability allows for one-touch football in tight areas, conjuring up goals seemingly out of nothing.
Scottish football can be exciting, but the "100MPH up-and-at-em, gung-ho" approach is often trumped by the "possession-based, incisive, clinical" football of our European counterparts.

See, I understand what people mean when they say this but it’s essentially just saying our style of play is rubbish. Why would it be? If these teams play such slow build up surely our gung-ho right at em style would blow them away because they couldn’t handle the pace of our game. There’s different styles and for whatever reason, we normally struggle to impose our style in Europe. I don’t think the up and at em style is the problem because that style is exactly what makes McGinn and Robertson probably our 2 best players. It’s the exact style Liverpool play with, albeit with vastly superior technical ability. At the end of the day there’s no excuse for the result like Celtic got the other day and on paper there is totally no explanation. It’s a complicated problem and thats why I reckon it’s taken so long to fix, it almost comes across as a lack of confidence at times. There’s more than enough quality players in the national team and the Celtic team to defeat the type of opposition they so frequently slip up against.

[where'stheslope]

At the moment we start the season in August and finish at the end of May, why not start the season in March and finish in November?
This way we take out what can be our worst 3 months of the year, and will be ready for the start of European competitions.
If we do well in these competitions, it will be the same as going on to World or European competitions in the summer months!
Other countries cope with it and it seems to give them the upper hand over our teams, so why not at least try it!!!!

[judas]

Scotland's TV deal is the fourth worst in Europe after Romania, Austria and Russia, and has actually gone DOWN compared to what it used to be. That's why.

This.

And Austria gets a better TV deal the we do.

[Hi Heid Yin]

See, I understand what people mean when they say this but it’s essentially just saying our style of play is rubbish. Why would it be? If these teams play such slow build up surely ourgung-ho right at em style would blow them away because they couldn’t handle the pace of our game. There’s different styles and for whatever reason, we normally struggle to impose our style in Europe. I don’t think the up and at em style is the problem because that style is exactly what makes McGinn and Robertson probably our 2 best players. It’s the exact style Liverpool play with, albeit with vastly superior technical ability. At the end of the day there’s no excuse for the result like Celtic got the other day and on paper there is totally no explanation. It’s a complicated problem and thats why I reckon it’s taken so long to fix, it almost comes across as a lack of confidence at times. There’s more than enough quality players in the national team and the Celtic team to defeat the type of opposition they so frequently slip up against.

It is a problem when the technical ability is not there.
Too many Scottish teams rely solely on a fast and physical approach, but the continentals can also play at pace, a higher pace in most cases, and can mix it equally, but they additionally have the expertise and skills to follow through and hurt - therein lies the difference.
This said, Sevco, because of the Gerrard influence, are actually playing a more European-type football this season and it is paying dividends.

[brisbanehibs]

I think we are technically and culturally way behind international football generally. My son learned the game down under before we moved home. He was generally technically stronger than his team mates in Scotland of same age and had grown up in a positive, encouraging atmosphere where skill was taught and valued at the expense of competition. Of course the weather helped enormously too as playing in warm weather encouraged a less frantic game with more time on the ball and slower pace. The A League is a good example of this. On returning home he had to grow up very very quickly. His technical skill meant he was targetted by defenders who on more than one occasion were encouraged by coaches to "break his f%cking legs",he had to get used to rutted pitches in winter, parents and coaches who thought it was ok to abuse refs, other kids and other parents, and a coaching system designed to get the ball forward quickly without the need for a midfield - or grass. The state of the pitches made this a necessity sometimes. SFA organisation of junior coaching was and still is shambolic in my view if not non existent at his level....meanwhile we have a national association that has nothing to say on sectarianism in our game, a toxic culture in many Premier League games especialy involving the OF and all in all it feels like we are in a bit of a time warp....feel better now, thanks for listening....😂😁

[Hi Heid Yin]

I think we are technically and culturally way behind international football generally. My son learned the game down under before we moved home. He was generally technically stronger than his team mates in Scotland of same age and had grown up in a positive, encouraging atmosphere where skill was taught and valued at the expense of competition. Of course the weather helped enormously too as playing in warm weather encouraged a less frantic game with more time on the ball and slower pace. The A League is a good example of this. On returning home he had to grow up very very quickly. His technical skill meant he was targetted by defenders who on more than one occasion were encouraged by coaches to "break his f%cking legs",he had to get used to rutted pitches in winter, parents and coaches who thought it was ok to abuse refs, other kids and other parents, and a coaching system designed to get the ball forward quickly without the need for a midfield - or grass. The state of the pitches made this a necessity sometimes. SFA organisation of junior coaching was and still is shambolic in my view if not non existent at his level....meanwhile we have a national association that has nothing to say on sectarianism in our game, a toxic culture in many Premier League games especialy involving the OF and all in all it feels like we are in a bit of a time warp....feel better now, thanks for listening....😂😁

:agree::agree:

[CMurdoch]

Celtic simply shot themselves in the foot time after time on Tuesday night

In the team selection they took McGregor out of the midfield and put him at full back
McGregor runs the show and keeps the structure of the team together.
Without McGregor, Brown struggles.
Hayes should have been played at left back and McGregor should have played in the midfield.

During the game the absence of McGregor in the midfield was an issue as per the above
and as a result a very average team were able to drag the Celtic backline all over the place.

The other major issue in the defeat was Brown giving a FREE penalty and goal to Cluj by choosing to handle the ball in the box for no reason.
A psychological weakness in the player much like Mackies hand ball on Sunday.

Celtics forward players were magnificent in the 2nd half but soft goals 2 and 3 for Cluj as a result of the above issues simply gave the game away.
I felt sorry for Christie, Eduard and Forrest who couldn't have played any better when Celtic started to go for it in the 2nd half.

The loss was absolutely nothing to do with issues or weaknesses with the Scottish game.


Moving on from my above post to directly answer the OP's question "Why are Scottish teams so rubbish in Europe"

The answer is that Celtic & Rangers are not rubbish in Europe but all other Scottish clubs when they get their chance are.

Some degree of order arrived back at Rangers in the form of the persuasive powers of Steven Gerrard.
The result last season was a massive improvement in the Scotland UEFA Coefficient which saw us start last season in 26th place and by the end move up to 20th.
This trend will continue this season. We have already moved up to 19th above Switzerland and will almost certainly overtake Croatia & Serbia by the end of this season to finish in 17th. As usual it all hinges on Celtic & Rangers not messing up in the next round of matches.
Next season i would expect Celtic & Rangers to perform decently again which would see Scotland chase down Greece, Denmark and the Czech Republic to finish in 14th or 15th.
This position will see Scotland awarded an additional European place.

The question the OP should have asked is "Why are Scottish clubs other than Celtic and Rangers so bad in Europe?"
The obvious answer is that they are simply not good or rich enough.
Having said that this seasons other representatives Kilmarnock & Aberdeen both under performed.
Last season Hibs did as well as could have been expected.

Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen are moving into more prosperous times and I am hoping this will see an upturn in their performances in European competition.

By the end of next seasons no country with a population less than Scotland will be ahead of us in the UEFA Coefficient
Bottom line is that Scottish football is much better than many folk give it credit for.

P.S. Scotland are top of the UEFA Coefficient League this season which evidences that we are doing well

[JimBHibees]

Personally think the style of football (overly aggressive, constant fouling, wasting time, stopping free kicks etc) which is allowed in Scotland particularly by weak officials is found out when playing more technical game e.g Aberdeen get papped out by a middling Croatian team while getting a player sent off.

[JimBHibees]

I think we are technically and culturally way behind international football generally. My son learned the game down under before we moved home. He was generally technically stronger than his team mates in Scotland of same age and had grown up in a positive, encouraging atmosphere where skill was taught and valued at the expense of competition. Of course the weather helped enormously too as playing in warm weather encouraged a less frantic game with more time on the ball and slower pace. The A League is a good example of this. On returning home he had to grow up very very quickly. His technical skill meant he was targetted by defenders who on more than one occasion were encouraged by coaches to "break his f%cking legs",he had to get used to rutted pitches in winter, parents and coaches who thought it was ok to abuse refs, other kids and other parents, and a coaching system designed to get the ball forward quickly without the need for a midfield - or grass. The state of the pitches made this a necessity sometimes. SFA organisation of junior coaching was and still is shambolic in my view if not non existent at his level....meanwhile we have a national association that has nothing to say on sectarianism in our game, a toxic culture in many Premier League games especialy involving the OF and all in all it feels like we are in a bit of a time warp....feel better now, thanks for listening....😂😁

Pretty much nailed it there, absolutely spot on with all points.

[JimBHibees]

The obvious answer is money but I think our style of football which is encouraged by referees is a factor. Take Aberdeen, the third best team in the country. They kick their way through the league every year and hardly ever get men sent off and usually get a dodgy tackle for about 3 or 4 players before the ref decides to book the next bad tackle which is often an opposition player(especially if they are playing Hibs)

Europe comes round and they have to completely change their style. The Rangers have done pretty well in Europe since their return and that is probably due to not having to change their style. Hibs under Lennon didn't do too badly and again we didn't need to change our style. Celtc don't do that badly but are up against decent sides generally.

I think Scottish Football needs to start punishing the hackers and making our product better to watch which may also make us a few more quid from a better TV deal.

Spot on the clogging teams get away with murder. One good thing about Gerrard is at least he is trying to play the game the right way good passing and possession but fast attacking game.

[jgl07]

This.

And Austria gets a better TV deal the we do.
I am not surprised at all. The whole game in Scotland has been structured for the benefit of two teams. With one of them away from the Premiership for four years, it has become totally uncompetitive. As a result the product is crap.

Try watching a match on TV between, say, Hamilton and Livingston in front of 1,500 in a two sided stadium. There is next to no noise coming from the crowd. There will be few skills on display.

Ok that doesn’t happen much as most matches televised are OF away games. This has contributed to the downward spiral.

[DH1875]

This.

And Austria gets a better TV deal the we do.


Its already been established in the thread that we are in fact not the 4th worst.

Apparently Celtics annual wage bill is over £12 million more than the ENTIRE wage bill for the Romanian league. There's no real reason other than, they blew it.