Alan Stubbs

[ivan03]

I said before Heckys appointment I wanted Stubbs and I stand by it. I know there’s fans out there that said no chance but let’s be honest here. Stubbs built the majority of our team that won the cup, got promoted and had a record breaking season in the premier league under Lennon. McGinn Gray McGeouch Fyvie Allan Boyle Bartley to name a few. Yes he didn’t get us promoted, which Lennon did without Rangers or hearts in the league BUT he had us playing the Hibs way, the feel good factor was there, he changed the mentality against hearts, he actually went to tyncastle and played football, played hearts off the park at times. We struggled to win games when teams sat in against us, yes, we also struggled with this under Lennon. I would love to have Stubbs back in the premier league, even losing games he’d have us playing the Hibs way, an attacking and exciting brand of football with no fear.

[Hibbyradge]

Maybe bookmark this and we can discuss this when we've got a managerial vacancy. :agree:

[Heisenberg]

Not this again!!

He’s had his time at Hibs. He won’t get back in at any top level club after the shambles at St Mirren.

Also, we currently have a manager.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

What’s he done since to suggest he’d be a success?
I don’t fink it’s this simple...

[chrisski33]

Been here done. He didnt get us promotion. As mentioned whats he done since he made the mistake of jumping ship?

[easty]

No thanks

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I said before Heckys appointment I wanted Stubbs and I stand by it. I know there’s fans out there that said no chance but let’s be honest here. Stubbs built the majority of our team that won the cup, got promoted and had a record breaking season in the premier league under Lennon. McGinn Gray McGeouch Fyvie Allan Boyle Bartley to name a few. Yes he didn’t get us promoted, which Lennon did without Rangers or hearts in the league BUT he had us playing the Hibs way, the feel good factor was there, he changed the mentality against hearts, he actually went to tyncastle and played football, played hearts off the park at times. We struggled to win games when teams sat in against us, yes, we also struggled with this under Lennon. I would love to have Stubbs back in the premier league, even losing games he’d have us playing the Hibs way, an attacking and exciting brand of football with no fear.

That’s some linguistical gymnastics to avoid tripping up over your contradictions there :)

“I would love to have Stubbs back in the premier league, even losing games he’d have us playing the Hibs way, an attacking and exciting brand of football with no fear.” I can just imagine a Jambo rubbing his chinny-chin-chin taking the p155 with that statement.

[ivan03]

I don’t understand why people wouldn’t want him. Would Lennon have built such a squad and got us promoted? I’m not so sure.

Stubbs has us playing great football, especially against the better sides who didn’t sit in against us, we would open them up, Aberdeen, St J, hearts in the cup etc.

[ivan03]

That’s some linguistical gymnastics to avoid tripping up over your contradictions there :)

“I would love to have Stubbs back in the premier league, even losing games he’d have us playing the Hibs way, an attacking and exciting brand of football with no fear.” I can just imagine a Jambo rubbing his chinny-chin-chin taking the p155 with that statement.

Meaning if we lost games it wouldn’t be cos we are playing boring football with half hearted players and no game plan. Likeyesterfah.

[Allant1981]

How many times will this be discussed, he failed in what was probably his main job, get us promoted, the cup win was great and I loved that day but he was employed to get us out the league, he then failed at rotherham and st mirren so there is nothing to suggest he has progressed as a manager but actually went backwards

[My_Wife_Camille]

SOS Stubbsy

[Hibeesmad]

Still don’t understand why he left to go to Rotherham

[GreenCastle]

Doolan...

Where is he now ?!

[Hibeesmad]

If he stuck with us, got promoted and achieved similar feat to Lennon’s fantastic season then he probably could have got the Celtic gig

[IWasThere2016]

If he stuck with us, got promoted and achieved similar feat to Lennon’s fantastic season then he probably could have got the Celtic gig

Stubbs achieved more than Lennon IMHO

[Hibeesmad]

Stubbs achieved more than Lennon IMHO

Football is a game of opinions

[DH1875]

Still don’t understand why he left to go to Rotherham

Exactly. His reasons for leaving are the reasons he should be nowhere near the job.

[Barman Stanton]

I wanted Stubbs at the time. For some reason loads on here had turned against him. Hasnt worked for him elsewhere but sometimes managers and clubs just work together. I thought that was us and Stubbs.

[IWasThere2016]

Football is a game of opinions

And two halves :greengrin

[Barman Stanton]

Still don’t understand why he left to go to Rotherham

Rumour's at the time is it was because of non football reasons...

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Thanks but no thanks.

Will be ever grateful for winning us the cup but with respects to him I really think we should be setting the bar a bit higher.

[Togs91]

Exactly. His reasons for leaving are the reasons he should be nowhere near the job.

He said he didnt believe he could top the SC final. He couldnt get us out of the championship, and obviously thought he couldnt do it the next year. He moved on to rotheram and st mirren and flopped. He is a legend for bringing the cup home, but please put him to bed.

[Hibeesmad]

Rumour's at the time is it was because of non football reasons...

Whatever the reasons were, I don’t think Dempster would re-hire someone who jumps ship at the first opportunity. He was probably a cup final defeat away from the sack at time too.

[jeffers]

His time has been and gone (although I’d have given him the job til the end of the season when NL left.) However recruitment under him was better than NL and Heckingbottom, with Marciano aside our best players were his signings. I wonder what has changed in that respect.

[easty]

I wanted Stubbs at the time. For some reason loads on here had turned against him. Hasnt worked for him elsewhere but sometimes managers and clubs just work together. I thought that was us and Stubbs.

I didn't want him back, but I certainly haven't turned against him, I don't think anyone has. I love Alan Stubbs. Hibs Legend. He's had his time though. He left, he moved on, he's not done well, and there's nothing that would suggest he'd be the right person for us now.

[makaveli1875]

Stubbs achieved more than Lennon IMHO

Id say Stubbs achieved more than any manager in my lifetime . i think the stars aligned for him to do that , getting SJM and Stokesy etc , dont think he is the man to take us forward now .

[jacomo]

Whatever the reasons were, I don’t think Dempster would re-hire someone who jumps ship at the first opportunity. He was probably a cup final defeat away from the sack at time too.


Alan touted himself for the job in January and LD ignored him. So that’s that: if he was going to return, it would have happened.

[we are hibs]

Stubbs achieved more than Lennon IMHO

Not an opinion its a fact. Only one won a major trophy whilst at Hibs.

[Barman Stanton]

I didn't want him back, but I certainly haven't turned against him, I don't think anyone has. I love Alan Stubbs. Hibs Legend. He's had his time though. He left, he moved on, he's not done well, and there's nothing that would suggest he'd be the right person for us now.

Plenty had. Some of the stuff said on here about him after Lennon left was unreal.

[Hibernia&Alba]

He chose to leave us for Rotherham United. His place in Hibs folklore is assured, but he had the job once and walked away. His time has passed.

[McD]

Iirc, after the Falkirk playoff failure, there was more than a small number of people who wanted him punted, and there was a lot of criticism about not being able to break down teams who sat deep.

The cup win, glorious as it was/is, glossed over a lot of his deficiencies, and allowed him to leave with his positive impacts (team building, club culture, style of play to a point) being focussed on rather than poorer aspects/performances.

He went with my best wishes, as someone who gave it his all, had some really positive impacts on Hibs and changed our history, but I think his time has gone, and he wouldn’t be a step forward now.

[Hibeesmad]

Iirc, after the Falkirk playoff failure, there was more than a small number of people who wanted him punted, and there was a lot of criticism about not being able to break down teams who sat deep.

The cup win, glorious as it was/is, glossed over a lot of his deficiencies, and allowed him to leave with his positive impacts (team building, club culture, style of play to a point) being focussed on rather than poorer aspects/performances.

He went with my best wishes, as someone who gave it his all, had some really positive impacts on Hibs and changed our history, but I think his time has gone, and he wouldn’t be a step forward now.

👏🏻

[heretoday]

Stubbs? You sentimental old thing!

[Sammy7nil]

Iirc, after the Falkirk playoff failure, there was more than a small number of people who wanted him punted, and there was a lot of criticism about not being able to break down teams who sat deep.

The cup win, glorious as it was/is, glossed over a lot of his deficiencies, and allowed him to leave with his positive impacts (team building, club culture, style of play to a point) being focussed on rather than poorer aspects/performances.

He went with my best wishes, as someone who gave it his all, had some really positive impacts on Hibs and changed our history, but I think his time has gone, and he wouldn’t be a step forward now.

correct

[H18 SFR]

Humungous no for me.

[Hannah_hfc]

Under Stubbs we lost 6-2 to an even worse Sevco side at Easter Road in July 2015. The season after that panned out not too badly but I can guarantee the reaction at the time was very similar to right now.

Yes I’m not delighted at how we set up yesterday but lessons will be learned from it- starting to dread this culture of calling managers to go after every defeat.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Zazu62]

Would rather have Goodwin

[Nicho87]

More players like, McGeouch, Allan or mcginn

or

doidge, Newell, james

tricky

[Greencore]

More players like, McGeouch, Allan or mcginn

or

doidge, Newell, james

tricky
Or Jamie Insall, Dan Carmichael,
Matthew Kennedy, Jake Sinclair, Farid El Alagui, Franck Dja Djédjé, Antonio Reguero, Adam Eckersley, Chris Dagnall...

[lord bunberry]

Or Jamie Insall, Dan Carmichael,
Matthew Kennedy, Jake Sinclair, Farid El Alagui, Franck Dja Djédjé, Antonio Reguero, Adam Eckersley, Chris Dagnall...
How many of those players were signed to be first team regulars? Farid certainly was and would’ve been an excellent signing if it wasn’t for his bad injury.

[Greencore]

How many of those players were signed to be first team regulars? Farid certainly was and would’ve been an excellent signing if it wasn’t for his bad injury.
6/5 I would say.

[MWHIBBIES]

More players like, McGeouch, Allan or mcginn

or

doidge, Newell, james

tricky
Why is James lumped in? Been good when he has played his proper position.

[Hiber-nation]

Can't believe there are so many on here who don't want him back. Couldn't wait for Saturdays when Stubbsy was manager. Now I dread them.

[The 90+2]

Stubbsy stubbsy!

[I_Love_Latapy]

Doolan...

Where is he now ?!

Accrington Stanley?

[Allant1981]

Accrington Stanley?

Who are they

[neil7908]

Can't believe there are so many on here who don't want him back. Couldn't wait for Saturdays when Stubbsy was manager. Now I dread them.

I think he's less of a risk than Heckingbottom was when he was appointed.

Scott Allan has made some poor moves career wise and there are a number of failures on his CV where he moved and couldn't cut it. But we've welcomed him back with open arms. I don't see why Stubbs is different.

Not saying he should be a stick on if Heck goes but rather him than some other boy from down south that doesnt know the game up here and will likely also have some sackings on his CV.

[RoYO!]

I’d happily have Stubbs back. Also happy for PH to get some more time. Signings have been poor.

In a match of Stubbs vs PH signings- PH’s team would get destroyed.

[Allant1981]

I think he's less of a risk than Heckingbottom was when he was appointed.

Scott Allan has made some poor moves career wise and there are a number of failures on his CV where he moved and couldn't cut it. But we've welcomed him back with open arms. I don't see why Stubbs is different.

Not saying he should be a stick on if Heck goes but rather him than some other boy from down south that doesnt know the game up here and will likely also have some sackings on his CV.

Stubbs knows the game up here and still got sacked at st mirren, he also failed his main objective 2 years in a row

[The 90+2]

Stubbs knows the game up here and still got sacked at st mirren, he also failed his main objective 2 years in a row

He won the Scottish cup. The biggest objective you could achieve as manager of Hibernian. Literally nobody at the start or the end of his tenure would have swapped promotion for the cup.

He also wasn’t given a good enough chance at St Mirren. Maybe just like Scotty Allan he fits our set up also.

[Allant1981]

He won the Scottish cup. The biggest objective you could achieve as manager of Hibernian. Literally nobody at the start or the end of his tenure would have swapped promotion for the cup.

He also wasn’t given a good enough chance at St Mirren. Maybe just like Scotty Allan he fits our set up also.

I'm taking nothing away from the cup win, the best day out I've had at a football game but he would have been tasked with getting out the league first and foremost, the cup was an amazing bonus. He was sacked at rotherham as well mind, he may just be an average manager. I cant see him being back at the club regardless if what I think though

[H18 SFR]

He won the Scottish cup. The biggest objective you could achieve as manager of Hibernian. Literally nobody at the start or the end of his tenure would have swapped promotion for the cup.

He also wasn’t given a good enough chance at St Mirren. Maybe just like Scotty Allan he fits our set up also.

He absolutely dismantled a good squad built by Jack Ross.

Loves Stubbs, love him as a pundit now, that's his level.

[Smartie]

Who are they

Exactly.

[The_Horde]

I'd have taken Warburton when he was free. Regardless of the history.

[Wilson]

Would rather have Goodwin

Behave. He's a parcel delivery driver on hiatus. Couldn't beat this hibs side and actually thinks we're good. Gets a decent result against an Aberdeen side with an eye on Europe and suddenly he's the top choice? He'll need to show a lot more.

[Sammy7nil]

Can't believe there are so many on here who don't want him back. Couldn't wait for Saturdays when Stubbsy was manager. Now I dread them.

He could not win the championship and finished third in a two horse race behind FALKIRK great cup win but his league form was okay to average at best. How many points did we finish behind Hearts twenty odd points?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I'd have taken Warburton when he was free. Regardless of the history.

That’s me sold.

[Pretty Boy]

Sometimes a manager and club just click, maybe that's Hibs and Stubbs.

I've no strong feelings about Stubbs coming back but I won't downplay the job he done for us either. He fitted the system and, as part of a bigger team, played a huge part in getting us back on our feet.

We don't have vacancy at the moment but when we do again some time in the future, be that 3 months or 3 years, I wouldn't be against Stubbs being considered.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Stubbs knows the game up here and still got sacked at st mirren, he also failed his main objective 2 years in a row

Bawhair away of being the first manager to win premier 2 cups whilst playing in a lower division if anything his failure was not to refuse fighting on all 3 fronts.

[Allant1981]

Bawhair away of being the first manager to win premier 2 cups whilst playing in a lower division if anything his failure was not to refuse fighting on all 3 fronts.

Again the cup win was amazing but he failed in the league, twice

[Marvellous]

Again the cup win was amazing but he failed in the league, twice

There were no mitigating circumstances right enough, and no other decent teams also in the league at the time :hilarious

The man could have won a cup double and there are Hibs fans who would still define him as a failure for finishing behind Rangers and losing a play-off to Falkirk with a scandalous refereeing decision. Utter madness.

[Sammy7nil]

He could not win the championship and finished third in a two horse race behind FALKIRK great cup win but his league form was okay to average at best. How many points did we finish behind Hearts twenty odd points?


There were no mitigating circumstances right enough, and no other decent teams also in the league at the time :hilarious

The man could have won a cup double and there are Hibs fans who would still define him as a failure for finishing behind Rangers and losing a play-off to Falkirk with a scandalous refereeing decision. Utter madness.

See post above

[Marvellous]

See post above

Reckon getting to two cup finals might have affected the league form in any way?

[MWHIBBIES]

Behave. He's a parcel delivery driver on hiatus. Couldn't beat this hibs side and actually thinks we're good. Gets a decent result against an Aberdeen side with an eye on Europe and suddenly he's the top choice? He'll need to show a lot more.

A few teams wont beat this Hibs side this season. We're nothing like as bad as folk are pretending. We're comfortably better than Livi/St Mirren/Hamilton/St Johnstone and probably better over the season than Motherwell, Ross County, Kilmarnock and maybe Hearts.

[Allant1981]

There were no mitigating circumstances right enough, and no other decent teams also in the league at the time :hilarious

The man could have won a cup double and there are Hibs fans who would still define him as a failure for finishing behind Rangers and losing a play-off to Falkirk with a scandalous refereeing decision. Utter madness.

We should not have needed a ref to help us, he did fail. That's not made up or an opinion, it's a fact

[Marvellous]

We should not have needed a ref to help us, he did fail. That's not made up or an opinion, it's a fact

No, it is an opinion. A ridiculous one.

We didn't meet our aim of getting promoted but overall he was not a failure. If you think Stubbs failed as Hibs manager then I don't know why you support the club, it isn't going to get much better than what he achieved for us.

[Allant1981]

No, it is an opinion. A ridiculous one.

We didn't meet our aim of getting promoted but overall he was not a failure. If you think Stubbs failed as Hibs manager then I don't know why you support the club, it isn't going to get much better than what he achieved for us.

Do you actually read what you post, he didnt meet the aim of getting out the league not once but twice but didnt fail, no bother!!! So you arent sure why I support the club because I think he failed, what an utterly ridiculous statement, and winning it again matches his achievement does it not?

[Sammy7nil]

Reckon getting to two cup finals might have affected the league form in any way?

So what happend when we finished 20 points behind Hearts ? Look it was two great cup runs coulda shoulda won both but the bottom line his task was promotion he failed twice. Once by miles the other by finishing third which was unacceptable.

[Marvellous]

Do you actually read what you post, he didnt meet the aim of getting out the league not once but twice but didnt fail, no bother!!! So you arent sure why I support the club because I think he failed, what an utterly ridiculous statement, and winning it again matches his achievement does it not?

I think it's you who needs to read better pal. I said we could have won a cup double and you'd still define him as a failure because he didn't get us promoted, which is a hilariously simplistic and stupid outlook to have.

Hope you enjoy defining every Hibs manager who doesn't meet a concrete objective a failure in spite of what they actually do for the club; and in spite of the actual circumstances :aok:

[bigwheel]

So what happend when we finished 20 points behind Hearts ? Look it was two great cup runs coulda shoulda won both but the bottom line his task was promotion he failed twice. Once by miles the other by finishing third which was unacceptable.

Hearts were excellent that year ..he did well to finish second above Rangers ...Fair to challenger the league performance in season 2, but very harsh to give him anything but credit for not only finishing second in year one, but getting some pride back into the club ....

[MWHIBBIES]

So what happend when we finished 20 points behind Hearts ? Look it was two great cup runs coulda shoulda won both but the bottom line his task was promotion he failed twice. Once by miles the other by finishing third which was unacceptable.

In 20 years will you remember the season we didn't get promoted

or the cup win?

Alan Stubbs changed everyones life, he is a god among men.

[Marvellous]

So what happend when we finished 20 points behind Hearts ? Look it was two great cup runs coulda shoulda won both but the bottom line his task was promotion he failed twice. Once by miles the other by finishing third which was unacceptable.

If our objective this season is a top four finish but we finish 5th, winning the Scottish Cup and get to the League Cup final does that make Heckingbottom a failure?

[Allant1981]

I think it's you who needs to read better pal. I said we could have won a cup double and you'd still define him as a failure because he didn't get us promoted, which is a hilariously simplistic and stupid outlook to have.

Hope you enjoy defining every Hibs manager who doesn't meet a concrete objective a failure in spite of what they actually do for the club; and in spite of the actual circumstances :aok:

You said he didnt meet the aim of getting out the league but didnt fail, very strange you would think not getting out the league, especially in the second season is not failing. Cup win was amazing but he failed in the league, again not an opinion but a fact

[Pretty Boy]

So what happend when we finished 20 points behind Hearts ? Look it was two great cup runs coulda shoulda won both but the bottom line his task was promotion he failed twice. Once by miles the other by finishing third which was unacceptable.

He finished 3rd with one less point than we managed the following season under Lennon when we won a weaker league.

Ultimately that counts for nothing but the whole 'finished behind Falkirk' thing is worded to make that season sound far worse than it was and deliberately ignores the mitigating circumstances.

[Marvellous]

You said he didnt meet the aim of getting out the league but didnt fail, very strange you would think not getting out the league, especially in the second season is not failing. Cup win was amazing but he failed in the league, again not an opinion but a fact

In the three tournaments we entered we finished 1st, 2nd and 3rd. That is an astoundingly good season. If you define that as failing then as I say, good luck getting any enjoyment out of supporting Hibs in the future.

[Allant1981]

In the three tournaments we entered we finished 1st, 2nd and 3rd. That is an astoundingly good season. If you define that as failing then as I say, good luck getting any enjoyment out of supporting Hibs in the future.

Again the cup win was amazing, best day at the football I've ever had but if you were happy with the league place at the end of the season then fire in

[Greencore]

Jim Leishman, director of football. He will sort us out.

[bigwheel]

Jim Leishman, director of football. He will sort us out.

Is that serious or parody ?

[J-C]

We all now why Stubbs left but he was struggling to get the necessary results in the league and he might have been asked to leave if we hadn't won on that day. One thing Stubbs did well was to set up a team to play against Premier opposition, our cup results were a stand out, e just struggled against the 10 men defences, I was always curious how Stubbs would've got on with his team in the Premier league, pity he didn't get that chance.

[neil7908]

Again the cup win was amazing, best day at the football I've ever had but if you were happy with the league place at the end of the season then fire in

Would you rather finish 4th this season or win the Scottish Cup?

Hell, would you rather finish 2nd or win the League Cup?

I know what I'm choosing every single time. Why do we take the p*** out of Levein - cause he's a got no medals. That's what's matters in football.

[Hector Mudflap]

I am in total agreement with the OP.

I have been following this club for over 40 years and the Stubbs era for me has been the absolute highlight. Going to Ibrox and Tynecastle and expecting to win or at the very least expecting to "show up" was just an incredible time. PH was a mistake and will remain a mistake. Many on here will say 'support the team" and "Give him time" etc but the football almost without exception has been dire. As my son would say "Utter Crud" Eye bleedingly bad. One guy FELL ASLEEP during the first half of the St Mirren game. There is no good vibe around the club and IMHO it went with Stubbs and wasnt even there under Lennon. I never liked NL either and his antics at Tynecastle and getting sent off in his first game kept me in the "not convinced" camp. I cant deny he brought backbone and as someone else said I still looked forward to the games. Now it's a dread and it has been since PH took over. He does not inspire anything other than boredom to me. The football matches his style. The closest he's going to get to a high press is if he buys a Corby 3000.

Stubbs for me all the way.

[Sammy7nil]

In 20 years will you remember the season we didn't get promoted

or the cup win?

Alan Stubbs changed everyones life, he is a god among men.

Totally different debate you and I know it.


If our objective this season is a top four finish but we finish 5th, winning the Scottish Cup and get to the League Cup final does that make Heckingbottom a failure?

See reply above however it is far easier to be promoted than finish fourth.


He finished 3rd with one less point than we managed the following season under Lennon when we won a weaker league.

Ultimately that counts for nothing but the whole 'finished behind Falkirk' thing is worded to make that season sound far worse than it was and deliberately ignores the mitigating circumstances.

It is worded to make it worse because it was we should never have finished third. In respect of Lennon's team no we were not great but ever time we need a result we got it that was not the case with Stubbs. Back to the old arguement do you want to win or do you want to be entertained? In the championship I wanted to win.

Stubbs may have been unlucky in the league but his time has come and gone and we should really remember him as a great cup winning manager and move on.

[Allant1981]

Would you rather finish 4th this season or win the Scottish Cup?

Hell, would you rather finish 2nd or win the League Cup?

I know what I'm choosing every single time. Why do we take the p*** out of Levein - cause he's a got no medals. That's what's matters in football.

Why 4th? Surely the aim when you are in the premier league is to finish as high as possible and hopefully win a cup? The scottish cup win was an amazing bonus but at the start of that season the aim was to get promoted, Stubbs failed, twice, not really sure why that is even being debated

[G B Young]

Stubbsy did a magnificent job at Hibs, especially when you consider the shambles of a club he inherited. He had a terrific eye for signings and clearly had some great contacts in the game to pull in some of the players he did. To overcome arguably the biggest bogey in Scottish football and win the Scottish Cup as a Championship club just 24 months after the utter gloomfest of that Hamilton play-off was little short of a miraculous achievement. I would even go so far as to say I enjoyed watching Hibs in the Championship under his management.

I can actually understand why he left when he did. Being realistic, it's hard to imagine anything ever topping that Scottish Cup win for Hibs and he probably thought as much. Starting his English managerial career at a smallish club where expectations were moderate probably seemed a sensible approach. Sadly for him it turned out to be a disastrous move, but even after he made another bad call with St Mirren I'd still have had him back at ER after Lennon left. Sometimes a player or a manager just 'fits' with a club and that certainly applied to Stubbs and Hibs.

If you weren't able to look upon the Stubbs era with immense fondness then you have remarkably high expectations as a Hibs fan.

[Hibby Bairn]

A few teams wont beat this Hibs side this season. We're nothing like as bad as folk are pretending. We're comfortably better than Livi/St Mirren/Hamilton/St Johnstone and probably better over the season than Motherwell, Ross County, Kilmarnock and maybe Hearts.

I disagree with that. I think we will be bottom 6 and possibly bottom 4.

[BILLYHIBS]

Stubbsy did a magnificent job at Hibs, especially when you consider the shambles of a club he inherited. He had a terrific eye for signings and clearly had some great contacts in the game to pull in some of the players he did. To overcome arguably the biggest bogey in Scottish football and win the Scottish Cup as a Championship club just 24 months after the utter gloomfest of that Hamilton play-off was little short of a miraculous achievement. I would even go so far as to say I enjoyed watching Hibs in the Championship football under his management.

I can actually understand why he left when he did. Being realistic, it's hard to imagine anything ever topping that Scottish Cup win for Hibs and he probably thought as much. Starting his English managerial career at a smallish club where expectations were moderate probably seemed a sensible approach. Sadly for him it turned out to be a disastrous move, but even after he made another bad call with St Mirren I'd still have had him back at ER after Lennon left. Sometimes a player or a manager just 'fits' with a club and that certainly applied to Stubbs and Hibs.

If you weren't able to look upon the Stubbs era with immense fondness then you have remarkably high expectations as a Hibs fan.

They should build a statue and place it at the back of the West of Stubbsy with one hand holding up the Scottish Cup and the other hand pointing towards the HIBS fans at Hampden as if to say “This is for you you have waited 114 years for this moment “

[MWHIBBIES]

I disagree with that. I think we will be bottom 6 and possibly bottom 4.

I guess we'll see over the next few weeks, there really isn't 7 teams better than us though. Scott Allan, Kamberi, Marciano and our defence when guys are back will be more than enough to finish above ***** like Livi and St Johnstone.

Our run of fixtures between Aberdeen games will determine our season, we really should be looking for 6 wins minimum from those 8 games.

[Speedy]

Whatever the reasons were, I don’t think Dempster would re-hire someone who jumps ship at the first opportunity. He was probably a cup final defeat away from the sack at time too.

I agree he was very close to the sack. Perfect time to go the way it worked out

[Speedy]

He won the Scottish cup. The biggest objective you could achieve as manager of Hibernian. Literally nobody at the start or the end of his tenure would have swapped promotion for the cup.

He also wasn’t given a good enough chance at St Mirren. Maybe just like Scotty Allan he fits our set up also.

Strangely that's not true, as odd as it seems to me, many on here wanted promotion over the cup.

[Torto7]

Lets get Roy Keane for a laugh. I wonder how he and Newell would get on.:devil:

[Criswell]

I must admit I wanted him back after Lennon went. He touted himself for the job but was ignored. Whatever the real reasons were for him going, it seems, as far as Hibs were concerned, he had crossed a line of no return. Achieved the Holy Grail, had a good eye for a player. Will always be remembered with great affection.

[The 90+2]

Again the cup win was amazing, best day at the football I've ever had but if you were happy with the league place at the end of the season then fire in

I couldn’t have cared less about the final league position when we won the cup, in fact I still don’t care at all.

Also, I’m sure Stubbs, who built a side from scratch was told his remit was to win a league with the huns in it either season, it would have been to build a squad and compete with them. He did that and also won us the holy grail.

[The 90+2]

I must admit I wanted him back after Lennon went. He touted himself for the job but was ignored. Whatever the real reasons were for him going, it seems, as far as Hibs were concerned, he had crossed a line of no return. Achieved the Holy Grail, had a good eye for a player. Will always be remembered with great affection.

Big Ron may think differently, you never know.

[basehibby]

I wanted Stubbs at the time. For some reason loads on here had turned against him. Hasnt worked for him elsewhere but sometimes managers and clubs just work together. I thought that was us and Stubbs.

I'm of this opinion too - often works like that with players too (eg. Scott Allan). I thought Stubbs succeeded at Hibs for two main reasons - he got to build his team more or less from scratch (which he seems to like doing) and played a style which we all lapped up.

At St Mirren and Rotherham he seemed once more to want to rip it all up and start again - big difference was that these were two promoted teams who probably didn't need much rebuilding - result was that Stubbs pulled apart teams used to winning, stalled their momentum and lost the fans in the process - result:failure.

It's true that Stubbs' record since leaving Hibs has been pretty awful, but against that, he made a series of excellent signings for Hibs - seeming to instinctively know what was required - and that easy on the eye style had us all purring. Would love to give him another go if Hecky doesn't cut the mustard - or even if, as McNulty has suggested, he ends up being a sensation and is lured away to some stinking rich club down south before the season's out.

[J-C]

I agree he was very close to the sack. Perfect time to go the way it worked out


He left due to non football related issues which we are not allowed to discuss on this forum.

[bigwheel]

I agree he was very close to the sack. Perfect time to go the way it worked out

He wasn’t though...Dempster said in a recent interview that, after he said he was taking the Rotherham job, she travelled down south to persuade him to stay..but his mind was made up

[BILLYHIBS]

He left due to non football related issues which we are not allowed to discuss on this forum.
:agree:

[Speedy]

He left due to non football related issues which we are not allowed to discuss on this forum.

Fair enough but non footballing reasons aside I think he'd be on a very shoogly peg had we lost to Rangers.

[Eaststand]

I am in total agreement with the OP.

I have been following this club for over 40 years and the Stubbs era for me has been the absolute highlight. Going to Ibrox and Tynecastle and expecting to win or at the very least expecting to "show up" was just an incredible time. PH was a mistake and will remain a mistake. Many on here will say 'support the team" and "Give him time" etc but the football almost without exception has been dire. As my son would say "Utter Crud" Eye bleedingly bad. One guy FELL ASLEEP during the first half of the St Mirren game. There is no good vibe around the club and IMHO it went with Stubbs and wasnt even there under Lennon. I never liked NL either and his antics at Tynecastle and getting sent off in his first game kept me in the "not convinced" camp. I cant deny he brought backbone and as someone else said I still looked forward to the games. Now it's a dread and it has been since PH took over. He does not inspire anything other than boredom to me. The football matches his style. The closest he's going to get to a high press is if he buys a Corby 3000.

Stubbs for me all the way.

You've saved me a lot of typing HM cos I agree with everything you've written.

GGTTH

[HibeeHibernian4]

The only thing we can win are the cups, Alan Stubbs' cup record is fantastic. It's a no brainer, for me.

[HibeeHibernian4]

He could not win the championship and finished third in a two horse race behind FALKIRK great cup win but his league form was okay to average at best. How many points did we finish behind Hearts twenty odd points?

Hibs 2014/15: 70 points
Hibs 2015/16: 70 points
Hibs 2016/17: 71 points

I feel like this needs to be written up in ten foot letters on walls around Leith until it gets into people's heads. Whatever you think about Stubbs' league campaigns, the exact same applies to Lennon, if not worse. He amassed one point more in a league that was about half as strong as the 2014/15 season, and still considerably weaker than the 2015/16 season too.

Stubbs' team won two more games in the 2015/16 Championship than Lennon's team did in the 2016/17 Championship. On top of this, he did something no Hibs manager has ever done before or since, taking us to BOTH national cup finals, losing one narrowly and winning the other in Hibernian's greatest ever moment. His recruitment was also far better than Lennon's on a smaller budget, without being able to ride the crest of a wave either.

When Stubbs came in, we had just been relegated thanks to Butcher. When Lennon came in, we had just won the Scottish Cup thanks to Stubbs. There's your difference.

I don't want Heckingbottom out as of yet, but if he does go, get Stubbs back in.

[heretoday]

He left due to non football related issues which we are not allowed to discuss on this forum.

Correct. As if he'd willingly leave us to join flipping Rotherham.................

[Sammy7nil]

Hibs 2014/15: 70 points
Hibs 2015/16: 70 points
Hibs 2016/17: 71 points

I feel like this needs to be written up in ten foot letters on walls around Leith until it gets into people's heads. Whatever you think about Stubbs' league campaigns, the exact same applies to Lennon, if not worse. He amassed one point more in a league that was about half as strong as the 2014/15 season, and still considerably weaker than the 2015/16 season too.

Stubbs' team won two more games in the 2015/16 Championship than Lennon's team did in the 2016/17 Championship. On top of this, he did something no Hibs manager has ever done before or since, taking us to BOTH national cup finals, losing one narrowly and winning the other in Hibernian's greatest ever moment. His recruitment was also far better than Lennon's on a smaller budget, without being able to ride the crest of a wave either.

When Stubbs came in, we had just been relegated thanks to Butcher. When Lennon came in, we had just won the Scottish Cup thanks to Stubbs. There's your difference.

I don't want Heckingbottom out as of yet, but if he does go, get Stubbs back in.

The points total is irrlevant it is the final outcome that always matters in football. Look at Liverpool last year in league massive number of points and would hawon the league in every other year bar one IT DOES NOT MATTER they were second.

[Barman Stanton]

Hibs 2014/15: 70 points
Hibs 2015/16: 70 points
Hibs 2016/17: 71 points

I feel like this needs to be written up in ten foot letters on walls around Leith until it gets into people's heads. Whatever you think about Stubbs' league campaigns, the exact same applies to Lennon, if not worse. He amassed one point more in a league that was about half as strong as the 2014/15 season, and still considerably weaker than the 2015/16 season too.

Stubbs' team won two more games in the 2015/16 Championship than Lennon's team did in the 2016/17 Championship. On top of this, he did something no Hibs manager has ever done before or since, taking us to BOTH national cup finals, losing one narrowly and winning the other in Hibernian's greatest ever moment. His recruitment was also far better than Lennon's on a smaller budget, without being able to ride the crest of a wave either.

When Stubbs came in, we had just been relegated thanks to Butcher. When Lennon came in, we had just won the Scottish Cup thanks to Stubbs. There's your difference.

I don't want Heckingbottom out as of yet, but if he does go, get Stubbs back in.

Good post. People see things too much in black and white - Lennon got promotion and Stubbs didnt. Yes Lennon eventually got us over the line, forgetting it was without either Rangers or Hearts in the League and pretty much with Stubbs team.

[Sammy7nil]

Correct. As if he'd willingly leave us to join flipping Rotherham.................


ALAN STUBBS says leaving Hibernian to take over at Championship side Rotherham was an opportunity too good to turn down.



https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/676311/Alan-Stubbs-Explains-Rotherham-United-Move-Hibernian-Scottish-Cup-Winners-News

[Barman Stanton]

The points total is irrlevant it is the final outcome that always matters in football. Look at Liverpool last year in league massive number of points and would hawon the league in every other year bar one IT DOES NOT MATTER they were second.

But with a SCOTTISH CUP WIN (almost 2 cups). You would think that would count for something eh.

[Barman Stanton]

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/676311/Alan-Stubbs-Explains-Rotherham-United-Move-Hibernian-Scottish-Cup-Winners-News

Well he is hardly going to come out and explain its because of the much rumoured reason is he?

[Sammy7nil]

But with a SCOTTISH CUP WIN (almost 2 cups). You would think that would count for something eh.

But of course it was fantastic cup win we have established that it was history making. HoweverHe failed in the league it is time to accept all that move and remember him as the manager who made history and will always be welcome at ER.

[Speedway]

He left due to non football related issues which we are not allowed to discuss on this forum.

Far less to do with the transfer kitty than the transferring of Kitty as I recall.

[J-C]

Far less to do with the transfer kitty than the transferring of Kitty as I recall.

👍😁

To be nearer his wife, wanted to keep an eye on him.

[Barman Stanton]

But of course it was fantastic cup win we have established that it was history making. HoweverHe failed in the league it is time to accept all that move and remember him as the manager who made history and will always be welcome at ER.

You don't think that was anything to do with the fact we had Rangers and Hearts in the league? Or the amount of games we played due to his success in the Cups?

You also have to remember than Lennon inherited Stubbs team. Stubbs inherited an absolute shambles and didn't just rebuild the team, but gave Hibs their pride back. He is a huge part of the reason we have 17500 crowds instead of 11000.

You seem to view him as a failure due to not getting promoted. With the team he inherited it would have been a miracle to see us promoted in his first season. He did well to finish above Rangers. His second season saw us win a Cup, get to another final and robbed in playoff due to a dodgy ref.

[Sammy7nil]

You don't think that was anything to do with the fact we had Rangers and Hearts in the league? Or the amount of games we played due to his success in the Cups?

You also have to remember than Lennon inherited Stubbs team. Stubbs inherited an absolute shambles and didn't just rebuild the team, but gave Hibs their pride back. He is a huge part of the reason we have 17500 crowds instead of 11000.

You seem to view him as a failure due to not getting promoted. With the team he inherited it would have been a miracle to see us promoted in his first season. He did well to finish above Rangers. His second season saw us win a Cup, get to another final and robbed in playoff due to a dodgy ref.

Hearts had over 20 points more than Hibs ! What happened there, were hearts simply world beaters?

Look make all the excuses you want it does not matter he did not get promoted as I said the end result is all that matters in football. If he had not won the cup he was less than 50 / 50 to still be the manager for the following season. He was very close to the sack,

[Barman Stanton]

Hearts had over 20 points more than Hibs ! What happened there, were hearts simply world beaters?

Look make all the excuses you want it does not matter he did not get promoted as I said the end result is all that matters in football. If he had not won the cup he was less than 50 / 50 to still be the manager for the following season. He was very close to the sack,

Hearts were getting relegated due to their point reduction. So they were playing in the Premier League with all their kids. By the time the championship started they had played together loads (and some of them were actually good). Us on the other hand, we pretty much had Hanlon and Stevenson and a complete new team. Like I said, even to finish above Rangers from that position is impressive.

These are not excuses, they are facts. If you cant even take them into consideration then there is no point in even discussing it is there :dunno:

You would think that the man who eventually won us the cup would at least get a wee bit more respect than you are giving him. Each to their own though.

[SideBurns]

Both cup runs that season were tremendous. Beat the Huns, Hearts, Aberdeen, Dundee Utd (twice), St.Johnstone, Inverness Caley (and should've beat Ross County in the LC final). It suited us better playing sides who came out and attacked.

[hibeerealist]

Hibs 2014/15: 70 points
Hibs 2015/16: 70 points
Hibs 2016/17: 71 points

I feel like this needs to be written up in ten foot letters on walls around Leith until it gets into people's heads. Whatever you think about Stubbs' league campaigns, the exact same applies to Lennon, if not worse. He amassed one point more in a league that was about half as strong as the 2014/15 season, and still considerably weaker than the 2015/16 season too.

Stubbs' team won two more games in the 2015/16 Championship than Lennon's team did in the 2016/17 Championship. On top of this, he did something no Hibs manager has ever done before or since, taking us to BOTH national cup finals, losing one narrowly and winning the other in Hibernian's greatest ever moment. His recruitment was also far better than Lennon's on a smaller budget, without being able to ride the crest of a wave either.

When Stubbs came in, we had just been relegated thanks to Butcher. When Lennon came in, we had just won the Scottish Cup thanks to Stubbs. There's your difference.


I don't want Heckingbottom out as of yet, but if he does go, get Stubbs back in.

Some good points there HFC, did not think it was that close. I liked Stubbsy a lot too, he got us (group of 6) going back to ER after what we witnessed in previous seasons. The main point for me was the MESS he took over and he literally had to organise the playing side from top to bottom as well as put a team on the park each week.

GGTTH

[hibeerealist]

You don't think that was anything to do with the fact we had Rangers and Hearts in the league? Or the amount of games we played due to his success in the Cups?

You also have to remember than Lennon inherited Stubbs team. Stubbs inherited an absolute shambles and didn't just rebuild the team, but gave Hibs their pride back. He is a huge part of the reason we have 17500 crowds instead of 11000.

You seem to view him as a failure due to not getting promoted. With the team he inherited it would have been a miracle to see us promoted in his first season. He did well to finish above Rangers. His second season saw us win a Cup, get to another final and robbed in playoff due to a dodgy ref.


Promotion not secured - reasons include some real dodgy refereeing decisions too. Like you I feel much of what Stubbsy did (SC win aside) is overlooked by a number of folk on this board.

[Humo]

He left due to non football related issues which we are not allowed to discuss on this forum.


Can someone pm what the reason was then? I've never understood why he left Hibs after winning the cup especially when promotion the following season was inevitable

[Barman Stanton]

Promotion not secured - reasons include some real dodgy refereeing decisions too. Like you I feel much of what Stubbsy did (SC win aside) is overlooked by a number of folk on this board.

Yup, some seem to think all he did was win the cup. But that's overlooking building a team pretty much from scratch with the likes of Gray, McGinn, McGeouch, Allan, Stokes, McGregor, Cummings etc in it. And have them playing the so called Hibs way.

I would welcome him back in a second. Or at least put him in charge of player recruitment....

[Sammy7nil]

Hearts were getting relegated due to their point reduction. So they were playing in the Premier League with all their kids. By the time the championship started they had played together loads (and some of them were actually good). Us on the other hand, we pretty much had Hanlon and Stevenson and a complete new team. Like I said, even to finish above Rangers from that position is impressive.

These are not excuses, they are facts. If you cant even take them into consideration then there is no point in even discussing it is there :dunno:

You would think that the man who eventually won us the cup would at least get a wee bit more respect than you are giving him. Each to their own though.

If you want to talk facts his cup runs were fantastic and the cup wiin will ensure he is always a huge part of our history and will be loved by almost everyone contected to Hibs.

However after the defeat to Flakirk several Hibs fans were on his case he had failed twice to get promoted or even get to the pllay final round on both attempts. His job was far from secure until the cup win. Those are the facts.

Now imho he was very close to the sack and was unlikely to be given a third attempt to get promoted if he did he would have had until Christmas to create a gap at the top of the league or be emptied. Since then he has had two disaterous spells in mangement.

He has had his chance at Hibs and huge thanks to him but it is time to move on.

On that note I will bow out.

[Chefki Kuqi]

I feel Stubbs is like Allan, might struggle elsewhere but made for Hibs.

[Gordy M]

If anyone doubts that some of the fans were turning against stubbs, have a look at the match thread against Alloa away, think it was the April/may time. We got beat 2-0. Doesnt make pleasant reading.......

[Pretty Boy]

I'm going to say nothing constructive here and will add literally nothing to any debate, however can I just put on record that I absolutely ****ing love Alan Stubbs and should he ever find himself in Edinburgh without a pint I will happily buy him as many as he likes.

I said some pretty daft things in a fit of emotion after the play off defeat to Falkirk. With the benefit of hindsight I was wrong. Stubbs did a fantastic job for us on the whole and a piece of silverware was everything we deserved for how far we came as a club in such a short space of time.

[Smartie]

I'm going to say nothing constructive here and will add literally nothing to any debate, however can I just put on record that I absolutely ****ing love Alan Stubbs and should he ever find himself in Edinburgh without a pint I will happily buy him as many as he likes.

I said some pretty daft things in a fit of emotion after the play off defeat to Falkirk. With the benefit of hindsight I was wrong. Stubbs did a fantastic job for us on the whole and a piece of silverware was everything we deserved for how far we came as a club in such a short space of time.

I think I was possibly as low as I've ever been as a Hibs fan following that play-off defeat, and I nearly didn't go to the cup final.

The fact that he picked the players up and led them to that victory was nothing short of miraculous, and he deserves enormous credit for that.

It is a disgrace that people cannot now give him the credit he deserves without some sort of "aye, but he failed in the league" throwaway line.

[Smartie]

Oh, and I should add - I think the Championship is a far harder league to get out of than people will admit. There are horrible pitches, lots of horrible away grounds and very few teams that actually have any interest in playing any football. It an absolute footballing graveyard. Falkirk have just been relegated from it, Dundee United have already had 3 unsuccessful attempts to get out of it. It is usually an interesting league to watch from afar as it is tight and many teams can go on to do well, as well as struggle.

Lennon deserves credit for getting the job done at the first time of asking, Stubbs deserves credit for making a decent fist of it twice after inheriting Butcher's shambles and going into it with Hearts and Rangers (twice) whilst also doing well in the cups.

[.Sean.]

Hibs 2014/15: 70 points
Hibs 2015/16: 70 points
Hibs 2016/17: 71 points

I feel like this needs to be written up in ten foot letters on walls around Leith until it gets into people's heads. Whatever you think about Stubbs' league campaigns, the exact same applies to Lennon, if not worse. He amassed one point more in a league that was about half as strong as the 2014/15 season, and still considerably weaker than the 2015/16 season too.

Stubbs' team won two more games in the 2015/16 Championship than Lennon's team did in the 2016/17 Championship. On top of this, he did something no Hibs manager has ever done before or since, taking us to BOTH national cup finals, losing one narrowly and winning the other in Hibernian's greatest ever moment. His recruitment was also far better than Lennon's on a smaller budget, without being able to ride the crest of a wave either.

When Stubbs came in, we had just been relegated thanks to Butcher. When Lennon came in, we had just won the Scottish Cup thanks to Stubbs. There's your difference.

I don't want Heckingbottom out as of yet, but if he does go, get Stubbs back in.The first three lines, I’m fed up explaining this to folk. :agree:

[Diclonius]

If anyone doubts that some of the fans were turning against stubbs, have a look at the match thread against Alloa away, think it was the April/may time. We got beat 2-0. Doesnt make pleasant reading.......

Most of us wanted him out after the playoff.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Still don’t understand why he left to go to Rotherham
A lot of people do...

[Diclonius]

Hibs 2014/15: 70 points
Hibs 2015/16: 70 points
Hibs 2016/17: 71 points

I feel like this needs to be written up in ten foot letters on walls around Leith until it gets into people's heads. Whatever you think about Stubbs' league campaigns, the exact same applies to Lennon, if not worse. He amassed one point more in a league that was about half as strong as the 2014/15 season, and still considerably weaker than the 2015/16 season too.

Stubbs' team won two more games in the 2015/16 Championship than Lennon's team did in the 2016/17 Championship. On top of this, he did something no Hibs manager has ever done before or since, taking us to BOTH national cup finals, losing one narrowly and winning the other in Hibernian's greatest ever moment. His recruitment was also far better than Lennon's on a smaller budget, without being able to ride the crest of a wave either.

When Stubbs came in, we had just been relegated thanks to Butcher. When Lennon came in, we had just won the Scottish Cup thanks to Stubbs. There's your difference.

I don't want Heckingbottom out as of yet, but if he does go, get Stubbs back in.

Points in 2014/15 and 2015/16 adjusting for no Hearts/Rangers (the average points in games not against them, multiplied by 36):
2014/15: 72
2015/16: 72
2016/17: 71

Stubbs' record against the "wee" teams in the second tier was around the same as Lennon. He'd have got us promoted in 2016/17 nae bother, as would Lennon have struggled the seasons prior.

[James Stephen]

I wanted Stubbs in, at least until end of the season, when Lenny departed.

He was a good manager, and while that team has its problems, I still think he was a good fit for the club.

[hibsforeurope]

I was against Stubbs coming back to replace Lennon but having seen the football we play now i would love for Stubbs to come back, as long as it was with Doolan and hopefully Holden too.

He struggled to get out of the CHampionship but said at the time his style of play was more suited to the SPL. I think, with the right club and back room staff, he would do well.

[SingaporeHibs]

I am in total agreement with the OP.

I have been following this club for over 40 years and the Stubbs era for me has been the absolute highlight. Going to Ibrox and Tynecastle and expecting to win or at the very least expecting to "show up" was just an incredible time. PH was a mistake and will remain a mistake. Many on here will say 'support the team" and "Give him time" etc but the football almost without exception has been dire. As my son would say "Utter Crud" Eye bleedingly bad. One guy FELL ASLEEP during the first half of the St Mirren game. There is no good vibe around the club and IMHO it went with Stubbs and wasnt even there under Lennon. I never liked NL either and his antics at Tynecastle and getting sent off in his first game kept me in the "not convinced" camp. I cant deny he brought backbone and as someone else said I still looked forward to the games. Now it's a dread and it has been since PH took over. He does not inspire anything other than boredom to me. The football matches his style. The closest he's going to get to a high press is if he buys a Corby 3000.

Stubbs for me all the way.
Totally agree. Beyond all else, Stubbs built an exciting team from ashes. Was never going to happen overnight particularly under the circumstances we found ourselves in but year on year the players were maturing and improving. What an eye they had for players. They built a team we could be proud of and it was exciting watching the progress. Of course there were disappointments along the way but that was all part of the process.
We need the feel good factor back after the rollercoaster that was Lennon and the current situation that feels like the start of death by a thousand cuts.
I’m never sure going back in Football is the right thing to do but I would welcome Stubbs back with open arms. We could certainly do with someone that understands what it takes in Scotland, understands Hibs and knows how to build a team that will entertain with style.

[green day]

Totally agree. Beyond all else, Stubbs built an exciting team from ashes. Was never going to happen overnight particularly under the circumstances we found ourselves in but year on year the players were maturing and improving. What an eye they had for players. They built a team we could be proud of and it was exciting watching the progress. Of course there were disappointments along the way but that was all part of the process.
We need the feel good factor back after the rollercoaster that was Lennon and the current situation that feels like the start of death by a thousand cuts.
I’m never sure going back in Football is the right thing to do but I would welcome Stubbs back with open arms. We could certainly do with someone that understands what it takes in Scotland, understands Hibs and knows how to build a team that will entertain with style.

Not sure St Mirren fans will agree on all of that.................

[Since452]

I thought Stubbs did a brilliant job in getting the right players in. The more time that passes i cant help wonder if it was down to the recruitment team or if it was all a bit of a fluke. His record after Hibs is nothing short of woefull.

[SingaporeHibs]

Not sure St Mirren fans will agree on all of that.................

Maybe but then again they barely gave him time to unpack his bags never mind build a team.

[green day]

Maybe but then again they barely gave him time to unpack his bags never mind build a team.

He signed 11 players in the summer window....................

[MWHIBBIES]

Stubbs made Hibs enjoyable to watch again, brought fans back and build a fantastic team. Rest doesn't matter, thats all I want from a manager.

If Hecky doesn't last we could do much worse than Stubbs.

[Unseen work]

No thanks.

Jim Goodwin though....

[lord bunberry]

Not sure St Mirren fans will agree on all of that.................
St Mirren are a tinpot club who have ideas above their station. He was sacked after about 3 league games, one of which they won. It was the players there that forced him out. I quite like St Mirren as a club, but the people running the club are clueless.

[lord bunberry]

No thanks.

Jim Goodwin though....
A cup winning legend over a complete nobody. I know who I’d want. We should have brought Stubbs back when Lennon left.

[Smartie]

I thought Stubbs did a brilliant job in getting the right players in. The more time that passes i cant help wonder if it was down to the recruitment team or if it was all a bit of a fluke. His record after Hibs is nothing short of woefull.

The recruitment team's record since Stubbs doesn't look much better than woeful as things stand right now.

[B.H.F.C]

A cup winning legend over a complete nobody. I know who I’d want. We should have brought Stubbs back when Lennon left.

I was dead against that at the time. Now, I wish we had, even if it had just been on an interim basis initially.

He’d have given the place a lift, enough to secure the job, and he’d have signed better players in the summer.

[neil7908]

Hibs 2014/15: 70 points
Hibs 2015/16: 70 points
Hibs 2016/17: 71 points

I feel like this needs to be written up in ten foot letters on walls around Leith until it gets into people's heads. Whatever you think about Stubbs' league campaigns, the exact same applies to Lennon, if not worse. He amassed one point more in a league that was about half as strong as the 2014/15 season, and still considerably weaker than the 2015/16 season too.

Stubbs' team won two more games in the 2015/16 Championship than Lennon's team did in the 2016/17 Championship. On top of this, he did something no Hibs manager has ever done before or since, taking us to BOTH national cup finals, losing one narrowly and winning the other in Hibernian's greatest ever moment. His recruitment was also far better than Lennon's on a smaller budget, without being able to ride the crest of a wave either.

When Stubbs came in, we had just been relegated thanks to Butcher. When Lennon came in, we had just won the Scottish Cup thanks to Stubbs. There's your difference.

I don't want Heckingbottom out as of yet, but if he does go, get Stubbs back in.

Best post on here.

[Nicho87]

2 cup finals in one year
exciting attacking football
pumped hearts most times
signed more exciting players than duds
that cup win
gets hibs
knows the budgets and dempster

get him in.

should have got job after Lenny imo

[Allant1981]

2 cup finals in one year
exciting attacking football
pumped hearts most times
signed more exciting players than duds
that cup win
gets hibs
knows the budgets and dempster

get him in.

should have got job after Lenny imo

Went to rotherham, played 14, lost 10, went to st mirren, played 9, lost 4. Thanks for the memories of the cup but time to move on

If he had his hibs record at any other club followed up by the stats above we would be wanting him as far away from managing us as possible

[The 90+2]

Went to rotherham, played 14, lost 10, went to st mirren, played 9, lost 4. Thanks for the memories of the cup but time to move on

Why do you care what he done at other sides so much?

[Allant1981]

Why do you care what he done at other sides so much?

Is that a serious question? Should we only look at what he has done at hibs to judge how his career has been as a manager so far?

[660]

I’d take him but only with Doolan

[Kato]

When Stubbs' Hibs Te lost 6-2 to t'Rangers this board went bat-**** crazy just as is it now.

[Nicho87]

Went to rotherham, played 14, lost 10, went to st mirren, played 9, lost 4. Thanks for the memories of the cup but time to move on

If he had his hibs record at any other club followed up by the stats above we would be wanting him as far away from managing us as possible

Surely by that logic if hibs done there research on hecky he shouldn’t have got the job then.

no experience of Scottish football. Leeds fans all said he was garbage from what i read anyway.

[The 90+2]

Is that a serious question? Should we only look at what he has done at hibs to judge how his career has been as a manager so far?

Yes. Why no?

Did you look at Hecky being sacked at Leeds or Lenny at Bolton?

[jacomo]

Most of us wanted him out after the playoff.


Have your opinion, but do remember - it’s just your opinion.

You no more speak for ‘most of us’ than I do.

[The 90+2]

When Stubbs' Hibs Te lost 6-2 to t'Rangers this board went bat-**** crazy just as is it now.

Wasn’t everyone more distracted with Allan wanting to leave?

[jacomo]

Wasn’t everyone more distracted with Allan wanting to leave?


:agree:

[Allant1981]

Surely by that logic if hibs done there research on hecky he shouldn’t have got the job then.

no experience of Scottish football. Leeds fans all said he was garbage from what i read anyway.

PH has a better managerial record than stubbs

[Nicho87]

The defeat to them in the petrol cup surely can’t be some people’s comparison to one on Sunday. If I remember right Allan was wanting a move and in a huff and we had likes of Stanton and Lewis Allan playing.

ridiculous

[Allant1981]

Yes. Why no?

Did you look at Hecky being sacked at Leeds or Lenny at Bolton?

When we were first interested in him of course I did as I had never heard of him, his record down south is not to bad

[Nicho87]

PH has a better managerial record than stubbs

Stubbs didn’t split opinion with fans so early
stubbs signed decent established players at this level.
Stubbs played decent football as he said he would.

someone posted one thread saying they not left one game under hecky saying wow we were amazing today.

that happened plenty times under Stubbs and Lennon.

[CloudSquall]

I wanted Stubbs out after the playoff defeat, I get we had a ridiculous amount of games towards the end of the season but for me it was unacceptable to finish behind Falkirk and then even more unacceptable to get beat over two legs in the playoff.

He made some great changes at Hibs and I'll forever be grateful for his work in turning us around, however like Lennon it was time to go.

[Allant1981]

Stubbs didn’t split opinion with fans so early
stubbs signed decent established players at this level.
Stubbs played decent football as he said he would.

someone posted one thread saying they not left one game under hecky saying wow we were amazing today.

that happened plenty times under Stubbs and Lennon.


Nope but he did split fans opinions in the second season we spent in the championship, there can be no denying that, yip some of the players he signed turned out to be excellent for us and the ones that won the cup will never be forgotten. He also signed some bang average players. He played decent football but let's not kid on, some of the play against in the championship was rank rotten, will always be a legend for winning the cup but it was time for him to go as we needed to push on to the next level

[heretoday]

Can someone pm what the reason was then? I've never understood why he left Hibs after winning the cup especially when promotion the following season was inevitable

Go down Easter Road and ask around the pubs.

[lord bunberry]

Went to rotherham, played 14, lost 10, went to st mirren, played 9, lost 4. Thanks for the memories of the cup but time to move on

If he had his hibs record at any other club followed up by the stats above we would be wanting him as far away from managing us as possible
What has his record at Rotherham or St Mirren got to do with anything. His record at hibs is all I care about. He knows the club and was a success here. Rotherham were a basket case and he was sacked at St Mirren before he had a chance to succeed.

[Sammy7nil]

Why do you care what he done at other sides so much?

Sorry had to post :greengrin Ha ha very funny post :greengrin

Have your opinion, but do remember - it’s just your opinion.

You no more speak for ‘most of us’ than I do.

Just Look at at the threads after Alloa and Falkirk defeats. Lots of people forgot everything after the cup win but it is there in black and white.

[lord bunberry]

Sorry had to post :greengrin Ha ha very funny post :greengrin


Just Look at at the threads after Alloa and Falkirk defeats. Lots of people forgot everything after the cup win but it is there in black and white.
This forum after a defeat isn’t a good indication of managerial competence.

[Sammy7nil]

This forum after a defeat isn’t a good indication of managerial competence.

Correct it is a good indication of how fans feel.

[lord bunberry]

Correct it is a good indication of how fans feel.
People say things after a defeat in the heat of the moment. Once they’ve calmed down and had time to reflect some see things differently. I’m not saying their going to change their opinion on the manager, but as an indicator of how people will judge a manager this forum after a defeat isn’t a good one.

[MWHIBBIES]

Stubbs didn’t split opinion with fans so early
stubbs signed decent established players at this level.
Stubbs played decent football as he said he would.

someone posted one thread saying they not left one game under hecky saying wow we were amazing today.

that happened plenty times under Stubbs and Lennon.

Folk were asking questions about Stubbs after about 5 games because we lost to Alloa and Hearts and drew with Dumbarton.

[Onion]

Sorry had to post :greengrin Ha ha very funny post :greengrin


Just Look at at the threads after Alloa and Falkirk defeats. Lots of people forgot everything after the cup win but it is there in black and white.

The Falkirk defeat simply enhanced the job Stubbs did with Hibs in that Cup Final. Everyone, and I do mean everyone, didn't give Hibs a cat in Hells chance of beating the Huns that day. 21 May 2016 washed away every negative, poor result that Stubbs had. When it REALLY mattered, he got the job done in spectacular fashion, against all the odds. In saying that, I don't want him back as manager and he cannot trump that.

[Allant1981]

What has his record at Rotherham or St Mirren got to do with anything. His record at hibs is all I care about. He knows the club and was a success here. Rotherham were a basket case and he was sacked at St Mirren before he had a chance to succeed.

If you think that then fair enough

[Onion]

People say things after a defeat in the heat of the moment. Once they’ve calmed down and had time to reflect some see things differently. I’m not saying their going to change their opinion on the manager, but as an indicator of how people will judge a manager this forum after a defeat isn’t a good one.

Sadly, this was no routine defeat, it was a absolute pummelling and there was much more to it than simply the scoreline. The defeatist pre-match talk, the manner of the defeat, the new boys, the tactics, post-match acceptance... all are red flags that rightly come under scrutiny. PH has a serious PR problem which only very decent results and performances can solve.

[lord bunberry]

Sadly, this was no routine defeat, it was a absolute pummelling and there was much more to it than simply the scoreline. The defeatist pre-match talk, the manner of the defeat, the new boys, the tactics, post-match acceptance... all are red flags that rightly come under scrutiny. PH has a serious PR problem which only very decent results and performances can solve.
I was talking about Stubbs.

[jacomo]

Sorry had to post :greengrin Ha ha very funny post :greengrin


Just Look at at the threads after Alloa and Falkirk defeats. Lots of people forgot everything after the cup win but it is there in black and white.


Raging posters after a defeat?! You shock me.

Still doesn’t mean a majority wanted shot though.

[Kato]

I wouldn't want Stubbs back unless he had Doolan and Taff with him.

[Kato]

Wasn’t everyone more distracted with Allan wanting to leave?


Errm, it's possible for some to be raging about more than one thing at once.

[lord bunberry]

Errm, it's possible for some to be raging about more than one thing at once.
I seem to remember having hardly any players available for that game as well and getting another striker injured during the game.

[Sammy7nil]

Raging posters after a defeat?! You shock me.

Still doesn’t mean a majority wanted shot though.

Yeah most were happy we had missed out on promotion play off final for a second time and were right behind the manager.

As I said the cup win made most forget the earlier disappointments but the reality is before the cup win Stubbs coat was on a very shugally peg. Love him for the cup win but his overall league record with Hibs, Rotherham and St Mirren do not suggest he should be offered another chance with Hibs.

[jacomo]

Yeah most were happy we had missed out on promotion play off final for a second time and were right behind the manager.

As I said the cup win made most forget the earlier disappointments but the reality is before the cup win Stubbs coat was on a very shugally peg. Love him for the cup win but his overall league record with Hibs, Rotherham and St Mirren do not suggest he should be offered another chance with Hibs.


I’m not saying he should come back. Perhaps it can never be the same without Dolan and Taff.

But if you actually look at his record and achievements - as laid out above - you will see that Lenny did no better in the championship.

That trio did good things for our club.

[Pretty Boy]

I seem to remember having hardly any players available for that game as well and getting another striker injured during the game.

Hibs team that day:

1Oxley
5Fontaine
4Hanlon
23Forster
2Gray
48Martin
8Fyvie
11Stanton
16Stevenson
35Cummings
7Malonga


Substitutes
10Allan
31Reguero
33Harris
42Dunsmore
43Crane
44Sinclair
49Allan

Malonga was subbed after 24 minutes for Lewis Allan. We were leading 1-0 at that point. Of that team 6 of the starting 11 played in the cup final and none of the subs featured. McGinn signed just before the game, McGeough and Henderson joined a couple of weeks later, McGregor and Boyle later still.

[Sammy7nil]

I’m not saying he should come back. Perhaps it can never be the same without Dolan and Taff.

But if you actually look at his record and achievements - as laid out above - you will see that Lenny did no better in the championship.

That trio did good things for our club.

He do not do as well he did not get promoted, points total does not matter only the final outcome. If Hibs score four in the final this year but Rangers score five has Hecky done better than Stubbs?

[FilipinoHibs]

Stubbs didn’t split opinion with fans so early
stubbs signed decent established players at this level.
Stubbs played decent football as he said he would.

someone posted one thread saying they not left one game under hecky saying wow we were amazing today.

that happened plenty times under Stubbs and Lennon.

Lennon only second half of first season back in SPL. And we blew it at Tynie because of his tactics. Then he blamed the players and the board for the defeat and threatened to leave. Yes felt great there.

[Leitherhibs]

I wouldn't want Stubbs back unless he had Doolan and Taff with him.

This. Quite clear to me that they were the brains behind the operation during his time in charge.

[.Sean.]

Who’s the Sinclair?
Hibs team that day:

1Oxley
5Fontaine
4Hanlon
23Forster
2Gray
48Martin
8Fyvie
11Stanton
16Stevenson
35Cummings
7Malonga


Substitutes
10Allan
31Reguero
33Harris
42Dunsmore
43Crane
44Sinclair
49Allan

Malonga was subbed after 24 minutes for Lewis Allan. We were leading 1-0 at that point. Of that team 6 of the starting 11 played in the cup final and none of the subs featured. McGinn signed just before the game, McGeough and Henderson joined a couple of weeks later, McGregor and Boyle later still.

[Barman Stanton]

Yeah most were happy we had missed out on promotion play off final for a second time and were right behind the manager.

As I said the cup win made most forget the earlier disappointments but the reality is before the cup win Stubbs coat was on a very shugally peg. Love him for the cup win but his overall league record with Hibs, Rotherham and St Mirren do not suggest he should be offered another chance with Hibs.

Going by your standards, were the Turnbulls Tornado's failures? Yes played nice football, but only 1 league cup win and a few second places to show for their efforts.

[Pretty Boy]

Who’s the Sinclair?

Jake Sinclair, Scott's brother.

He was on loan from Southampton. Think he played about twice.

[we are hibs]

Stubbs divided the fans until around october in his first season imo. We drew 3-3 with dundee united and it felt like a turning point and we started to find a level of consistency after it. Not often ill applaud a hibs side after a defeat but they gave everything that game and gave the best entertainment most had seen at easter road in donkeys years. From then we seemed to kick on and slowly crept up on the huns and the rest is history.



Often forgotten because we didnt go up that we went on a ridiculous run of form between november 2015- february 2016 where we only lost 1 game away to the huns. In that time we beat st.johnstone at tynie to reach the LC final, beat the huns at ER, knocked hearts out the cup and closed the gap on rangers from something like 12 points at the start of october to being within 3 points. The morton game is where the league form nose dived. No one expected it and i think a lot of the reason our form dipped is that we were in a unique situation where we were a championship side, in 2 cup finals and competing for a title. Thats a hard job when you consider we only had a core squad of around 18 who regularly featured. We must have played close to 60 games that season. They just ran out of steam and managed to thankfully find a second wind for the final.

[The Wireless]

Going by your standards, were the Turnbulls Tornado's failures? Yes played nice football, but only 1 league cup win and a few second places to show for their efforts..

Just a pity the Hibs side of the late 60s early 70s came up against the best Celtic team in their history or Turnbull’s side would have unquestionably won many more honours because on their day only Celtic were a close match.:flag:

[Smartie]

Stubbs divided the fans until around october in his first season imo. We drew 3-3 with dundee united and it felt like a turning point and we started to find a level of consistency after it. Not often ill applaud a hibs side after a defeat but they gave everything that game and gave the best entertainment most had seen at easter road in donkeys years. From then we seemed to kick on and slowly crept up on the huns and the rest is history.



Often forgotten because we didnt go up that we went on a ridiculous run of form between november 2015- february 2016 where we only lost 1 game away to the huns. In that time we beat st.johnstone at tynie to reach the LC final, beat the huns at ER, knocked hearts out the cup and closed the gap on rangers from something like 12 points at the start of october to being within 3 points. The morton game is where the league form nose dived. No one expected it and i think a lot of the reason our form dipped is that we were in a unique situation where we were a championship side, in 2 cup finals and competing for a title. Thats a hard job when you consider we only had a core squad of around 18 who regularly featured. We must have played close to 60 games that season. They just ran out of steam and managed to thankfully find a second wind for the final.

Personally I had a bit more faith in the fringe players than Stubbs did, and I wonder if we might have managed to juggle the quantity of games a bit better if he had rotated on occasion rather than run his best team into the ground?

I am of the opinion that Stubbs is a legend and I hate it when people belittle his achievements with talk of failing in the league, but I do think that mistakes were made. Not mistakes that should have even had anyone considering his job given how good his cup record was and the mitigating factors of having Hearts and Rangers in that league, but mistakes nonetheless.

[greenlad]

Jake Sinclair, Scott's brother.

He was on loan from Southampton. Think he played about twice.

Jordan Sinclair.

Jake Sinclair was the season before.

[we are hibs]

Personally I had a bit more faith in the fringe players than Stubbs did, and I wonder if we might have managed to juggle the quantity of games a bit better if he had rotated on occasion rather than run his best team into the ground?

I am of the opinion that Stubbs is a legend and I hate it when people belittle his achievements with talk of failing in the league, but I do think that mistakes were made. Not mistakes that should have even had anyone considering his job given how good his cup record was and the mitigating factors of having Hearts and Rangers in that league, but mistakes nonetheless.

Of course he did. There were occassions early on in the job where his subs were strange. He used to leave scott robertson on when he was clearly struggling with cramp and it cost us at tynecastle early doors in his first season. He wasnt perfect but no manager is; but in terms of the job he had when we walked in the door, what he achieved and the team he left us. I think he done a fine job.

[Since452]

Turning point for me was when we knocked Aberdeen who were flying and unbeaten at the time out the cup. Felt like I'd got my Hibs back at that point. I'm usually out the ground in a flash at FT or just before but i stayed and gave them a well deserved standing ovation that night. Stubbs's reign was definitely a bit of an emotional rollercoaster.

[Barman Stanton]

.

Just a pity the Hibs side of the late 60s early 70s came up against the best Celtic team in their history or Turnbull’s side would have unquestionably won many more honours because on their day only Celtic were a close match.:flag:

Totally. However my point was more that you cant just look at points gained and see things in Black and White. Stubbs did way more for the club than just win the cup and fail to get us promoted. Just like the Tornado's did way more than just win a sole League Cup.

[Pretty Boy]

Stubbs divided the fans until around october in his first season imo. We drew 3-3 with dundee united and it felt like a turning point and we started to find a level of consistency after it. Not often ill applaud a hibs side after a defeat but they gave everything that game and gave the best entertainment most had seen at easter road in donkeys years. From then we seemed to kick on and slowly crept up on the huns and the rest is history.



Often forgotten because we didnt go up that we went on a ridiculous run of form between november 2015- february 2016 where we only lost 1 game away to the huns. In that time we beat st.johnstone at tynie to reach the LC final, beat the huns at ER, knocked hearts out the cup and closed the gap on rangers from something like 12 points at the start of october to being within 3 points. The morton game is where the league form nose dived. No one expected it and i think a lot of the reason our form dipped is that we were in a unique situation where we were a championship side, in 2 cup finals and competing for a title. Thats a hard job when you consider we only had a core squad of around 18 who regularly featured. We must have played close to 60 games that season. They just ran out of steam and managed to thankfully find a second wind for the final.

Our league form in the 1st half of the 15/16 season was title winning really.

We lost 2 of our 1st 3 and then from 29th August to 21st February we played 21, won 16, drew 4 and lost 1. That's a win percentage of 76%. Unfortunately from 24th February to the end of the season we played 12, won 4, drew 3 and lost 5. A win percentage of 33%. Is it a coincidence our form tailed off that badly when the fixtures started to pile up? For me the game that was postponed against Morton in early December was the real killer. That ended up being shoe horned into early February in among the St Johnstone semi final and the 2 cup games v Hearts and we dropped daft points at Livingston in an evening kick off in that period. On the same day Rangers had dropped points v Alloa and we failed to take advantage.

From that point Saturday, midweek, Saturday became our norm and we just never coped. Could Stubbs have utilised the squad better? With hindsight could we have sacrificed the League Cup?

[Barman Stanton]

Our league form in the 1st half of the 15/16 season was title winning really.

We lost 2 of our 1st 3 and then from 29th August to 21st February we played 21, won 16, drew 4 and lost 1. That's a win percentage of 76%. Unfortunately from 24th February to the end of the season we played 12, won 4, drew 3 and lost 5. A win percentage of 33%. Is it a coincidence our form tailed off that badly when the fixtures started to pile up? For me the game that was postponed against Morton in early December was the real killer. That ended up being shoe horned into early February in among the St Johnstone semi final and the 2 cup games v Hearts and we dropped daft points at Livingston in an evening kick off in that period. On the same day Rangers had dropped points v Alloa and we failed to take advantage.

From that point Saturday, midweek, Saturday became our norm and we just never coped. Could Stubbs have utilised the squad better? With hindsight could we have sacrificed the League Cup?

I dont think there is much Stubbs could have done really. I mean its totally unprecedented ground for Hibs, getting to both Cup finals (including replays) and having play offs as well. Players were running on empty gas at the end. We just didnt have the size of squad required for so many games.

I dont agree with sacrificing the League Cup though, we came within a baw hair of winning both Cups. Although I get the impression that still wouldn't be good enough for some of our support. (Having said that Iv always been of the opinion that missing out on the League and League Cup pushed us that extra mile for the big one).

[Sammy7nil]

Going by your standards, were the Turnbulls Tornado's failures? Yes played nice football, but only 1 league cup win and a few second places to show for their efforts.

I feel silly having to respond but - There is a slight difference playing in the championship and competting aginst the reccent European Chamipions

[jacomo]

Stubbs divided the fans until around october in his first season imo. We drew 3-3 with dundee united and it felt like a turning point and we started to find a level of consistency after it. Not often ill applaud a hibs side after a defeat but they gave everything that game and gave the best entertainment most had seen at easter road in donkeys years. From then we seemed to kick on and slowly crept up on the huns and the rest is history.



Often forgotten because we didnt go up that we went on a ridiculous run of form between november 2015- february 2016 where we only lost 1 game away to the huns. In that time we beat st.johnstone at tynie to reach the LC final, beat the huns at ER, knocked hearts out the cup and closed the gap on rangers from something like 12 points at the start of october to being within 3 points. The morton game is where the league form nose dived. No one expected it and i think a lot of the reason our form dipped is that we were in a unique situation where we were a championship side, in 2 cup finals and competing for a title. Thats a hard job when you consider we only had a core squad of around 18 who regularly featured. We must have played close to 60 games that season. They just ran out of steam and managed to thankfully find a second wind for the final.


Injuries hit us at the worst time. Fyvie and Dylan missed most of Feb - April, seriously depleting our midfield. We needed to sign a new keeper because Oxleys form dipped dramatically.

We came into 2016 in good form and capable of catching der Hun but there were many reasons for us dropping away... not least the cup run of course...

[Barman Stanton]

I feel silly having to respond but - There is a slight difference playing in the championship and competting aginst the reccent European Chamipions

Of course there is, its a massive difference. But you seem intent on ignoring anything about Stubbs side apart from the Cup win and the failure to get promotion.

At the end of the day, with that black and white outlook, the Tornados only have 1 League Cup win to their name. People don't remember them for their success. Its about how they played and how it made the fans feel. Taking that into account, football is not all about success is it. Stubbs of course has one of our greatest ever successes. Yes he failed promotion but built a team that played great football and made the fans fall in love with the club again. Miles from a failure for me.

[eastterrace]

Of course there is, its a massive difference. But you seem intent on ignoring anything about Stubbs side apart from the Cup win and the failure to get promotion.

At the end of the day, with that black and white outlook, the Tornados only have 1 League Cup win to their name. People don't remember them for their success. Its about how they played and how it made the fans feel. Taking that into account, football is not all about success is it. Stubbs of course has one of our greatest ever successes. Yes he failed promotion but built a team that played great football and made the fans fall in love with the club again. Miles from a failure for me. totally agree mate, why are some fans judging him on not getting promotion. They should be thinking back to some of the great football we played and getting to two cup finals in same season.

[Barman Stanton]

totally agree mate, why are some fans judging him on not getting promotion. They should be thinking back to some of the great football we played and getting to two cup finals in same season.

To be honest, winning the Holy Grail should really be enough. But Stubbs reign was so much more than that.

[rotherhamrob]

Hibs 2014/15: 70 points
Hibs 2015/16: 70 points
Hibs 2016/17: 71 points

I feel like this needs to be written up in ten foot letters on walls around Leith until it gets into people's heads. Whatever you think about Stubbs' league campaigns, the exact same applies to Lennon, if not worse. He amassed one point more in a league that was about half as strong as the 2014/15 season, and still considerably weaker than the 2015/16 season too.

Stubbs' team won two more games in the 2015/16 Championship than Lennon's team did in the 2016/17 Championship. On top of this, he did something no Hibs manager has ever done before or since, taking us to BOTH national cup finals, losing one narrowly and winning the other in Hibernian's greatest ever moment. His recruitment was also far better than Lennon's on a smaller budget, without being able to ride the crest of a wave either.

When Stubbs came in, we had just been relegated thanks to Butcher. When Lennon came in, we had just won the Scottish Cup thanks to Stubbs. There's your difference.

I don't want Heckingbottom out as of yet, but if he does go, get Stubbs back in.

100% 👍
I'd also add that the football under lennon in the championship was turgid.
There's no denying it was better in the Premier after the signings in January but that was it. He also had a worse record in both cups than stubbs had.

[Col2]

Stubbs recruitment v Heckingbottom

Allan
Gray
Fontaine
McGregor
McGinn
McGeouch
Boyle
Stokes (ok for cup final)

Versus Newell, Doidge

To early to conclude but I am concerned...

[Kato]

made the fans fall in love with the club again.

Something which isn't given that much notice but that was main one for me apart from the SC win. He turned the whole club around. If any Hibs fan wants to disparage that they've got a strange way of looking at what football means to people.

[The 90+2]

To be honest, winning the Holy Grail should really be enough. But Stubbs reign was so much more than that.

Yep, it’s not even a misty eyed assessment. He helped turn the club and the feel good factor back i our favour from its lowest ebb. Football because great again at the weekend and the cup matches almost all great. Aberdeen at Easter Road in the League Cup and the St Johnstone semi for instance both amazing games.

[Col2]

I would always welcome him back to the club as manager or any other capacity. He got 4 league games at St Mirren and people forgot that when they write him off now.

Ore PH appointment I was always of the mind that he would be a good appointment. More so now.

[Sammy7nil]

Of course there is, its a massive difference. But you seem intent on ignoring anything about Stubbs side apart from the Cup win and the failure to get promotion.

At the end of the day, with that black and white outlook, the Tornados only have 1 League Cup win to their name. People don't remember them for their success. Its about how they played and how it made the fans feel. Taking that into account, football is not all about success is it. Stubbs of course has one of our greatest ever successes. Yes he failed promotion but built a team that played great football and made the fans fall in love with the club again. Miles from a failure for me.

Stubbs had two attempts to get promoted not win the league, he failed to even make the final play off round. Making any comparriosn with the Tornades is just getting very silly. You wont convince me Stubbs deserves another chance and I wont convince you he failed so I am out.

[Northernhibee]

Stubbs recruitment v Heckingbottom

Allan
Gray
Fontaine
McGregor
McGinn
McGeouch
Boyle
Stokes (ok for cup final)

Versus Newell, Doidge

To early to conclude but I am concerned...

Did Stubbs only sign eight and Heckingbottom only two? Or are we being selective here?

[The 90+2]

Stubbs had two attempts to get promoted not win the league, he failed to even make the final play off round. Making any comparriosn with the Tornades is just getting very silly. You wont convince me Stubbs deserves another chance and I wont convince you he failed so I am out.

Was his remit to be promoted when he took over a shambles with rangers and hearts in the league? If it wasn’t then you can’t possibly say he failed.

The following season I don’t even think the board expected him to win the league with rangers in it. So again you can’t say he failed what was expected of him.

In fact, he signed a new improved two year contract the season before we won the Scottish Cup, hardly an indication that the board of Hibernian though he was failing in the job, is it?

[BILLYHIBS]

Everyone knows that Turnbulls Tornadoes were the best brand of football the worlds ever seen
A well organised perfectly drilled green machine
Every man knew his job and the job of the man standing beside him
They had a system that they stuck to rigidly and if a move broke down they simply started again
I don’t remember them getting beat 6-1
Yes I do but that game could’ve ended up 8-6 but what did Eddie Turnbull say “We will be back” and so will we in 2019

[Barman Stanton]

Stubbs had two attempts to get promoted not win the league, he failed to even make the final play off round. Making any comparriosn with the Tornades is just getting very silly. You wont convince me Stubbs deserves another chance and I wont convince you he failed so I am out.

Good idea. You are being too stubborn to entertain any other point of view. I think I explained what I meant well enough, and thankfully not many others seem to share your closed opinion.

[Barman Stanton]

Was his remit to be promoted when he took over a shambles with rangers and hearts in the league? If it wasn’t then you can’t possibly say he failed.

The following season I don’t even think the board expected him to win the league with rangers in it. So again you can’t say he failed what was expected of him.

In fact, he signed a new improved two year contract the season before we won the Scottish Cup, hardly an indication that the board of Hibernian though he was failing in the job, is it?

Wouldnt waste your time. He will completely ignore everything you will say. As far as he is concerned no promotion = failure. No other factors matter. Our Cup Winning manager is a failure :rolleyes:

[MWHIBBIES]

Everyone knows that Turnbulls Tornadoes were the best brand of football the worlds ever seen
A well organised perfectly drilled green machine
Every man knew his job and the job of the man standing beside him
They had a system that they stuck to rigidly and if a move broke down they simply started again
I don’t remember them getting beat 6-1
Yes I do but that game could’ve ended up 8-6 but what did Eddie Turnbull say “We will be back” and so will we in 2019

1972 Scottish cup final they got beat 6-1?

[BILLYHIBS]

1972 Scottish cup final they got beat 6-1?

Yawn!

Please reread my post

“Yes I do but the final score should have been 8-6”

[loanheadhibby]

Was his remit to be promoted when he took over a shambles with rangers and hearts in the league? If it wasn’t then you can’t possibly say he failed.

The following season I don’t even think the board expected him to win the league with rangers in it. So again you can’t say he failed what was expected of him.

In fact, he signed a new improved two year contract the season before we won the Scottish Cup, hardly an indication that the board of Hibernian though he was failing in the job, is it?

Absolutely his remit was to get promoted. Hearts were in a bigger shambles than us due to Administration and the Huns were also in disarray

We all love Stubbs but he failed twice in his primary objection.

[Barman Stanton]

Absolutely his remit was to get promoted. Hearts were in a bigger shambles than us due to Administration and the Huns were also in disarray

We all love Stubbs but he failed twice in his primary objection.

Thats not really how I remember it. Hearts were a shambles the year before in the Premier. But by the time the Championship started they had a decent young team who had played together loads and they simply hit the ground running. We on the other hand had ripped it up and started again, pretty much a completely new team. As for Rangers, their budget absolutely blitzed ours.

[Sammy7nil]

Was his remit to be promoted when he took over a shambles with rangers and hearts in the league? If it wasn’t then you can’t possibly say he failed.

The following season I don’t even think the board expected him to win the league with rangers in it. So again you can’t say he failed what was expected of him.

In fact, he signed a new improved two year contract the season before we won the Scottish Cup, hardly an indication that the board of Hibernian though he was failing in the job, is it?

If you think Stubbs was not under pressure in his final season you are wrong. From February to April Played 7 lost to Alloa, Morton, Dumbarton, Queen of the South and Raith. Drew with St Mirren and Beat Livingstion. Did the Board expect him to finish third ? Believe me he was under pressure.


Wouldnt waste your time. He will completely ignore everything you will say. As far as he is concerned no promotion = failure. No other factors matter. Our Cup Winning manager is a failure :rolleyes:

If you took the time to read my post I have nothing but praise for "Our cup winning managers" historic achievement however his overall record at Hibs and his highlighted failures since leaving in now way suggests he deserves another shot at being our manager.

P.S. it apears you are completly ignoring what I say it is bit like Hearts fans comfort of 5-1 nothing else matters - Stubbs won the cup nothing else matters.

[pacoluna]

It's the year 2040 and the two top threads are still about Neil Lennon and Alan Stubbs.

[SquashedFrogg]

Absolutely his remit was to get promoted. Hearts were in a bigger shambles than us due to Administration and the Huns were also in disarray

We all love Stubbs but he failed twice in his primary objection.

They weren't. Hearts had 6 months to prepare for the Championship. Bled younger players and trimmed squad of high earners. They hit the ground running whilst we were still reeling from relegation and had about 3 players when Stubbs rolled up.

[Northernhibee]

If you think Stubbs was not under pressure in his final season you are wrong. From February to April Played 7 lost to Alloa, Morton, Dumbarton, Queen of the South and Raith. Drew with St Mirren and Beat Livingstion. Did the Board expect him to finish third ? Believe me he was under pressure.



If you took the time to read my post I have nothing but praise for "Our cup winning managers" historic achievement however his overall record at Hibs and his highlighted failures since leaving in now way suggests he deserves another shot at being our manager.

P.S. it apears you are completly ignoring what I say it is bit like Hearts fans comfort of 5-1 nothing else matters - Stubbs won the cup nothing else matters.

Nobody is saying that either, they are saying that the sheer amount of games that piled up due to his successes in the cup plus key injuries meant that we were running on fumes for that entire run.

How would you have managed the issues with fatigue differently?

[Barman Stanton]

If you think Stubbs was not under pressure in his final season you are wrong. From February to April Played 7 lost to Alloa, Morton, Dumbarton, Queen of the South and Raith. Drew with St Mirren and Beat Livingstion. Believe me he was under pressure.



If you took the time to read my post I have nothing but praise for "Our cup winning managers" historic achievement however his overall record at Hibs and his highlighted failures since leaving in now way suggests he deserves another shot at being our manager.

P.S. it apears you are completly ignoring what I say it is bit like Hearts fans comfort of 5-1 nothing else matters - Stubbs won the cup nothing else matters.

Holy s*it. I have made a huge point of bringing up ALL the other things which I believe make him a success. You know, things like getting to both cup finals, rebuilding the team, bringing crowds back, playing great football, signing some great players etc etc. Where on earth have I said its all about the Scottish Cup?? My whole point was that its NOT all about the cup win.

[pacoluna]

Nobody is saying that either, they are saying that the sheer amount of games that piled up due to his successes in the cup plus key injuries meant that we were running on fumes for that entire run.

How would you have managed the issues with fatigue differently?

Alloa, Morton, Dumbarton, Queen of the South and Raith.

Fatigue is a good excuse as any I suppose.

[easty]

They weren't. Hearts had 6 months to prepare for the Championship. Bled younger players and trimmed squad of high earners. They hit the ground running whilst we were still reeling from relegation and had about 3 players when Stubbs rolled up.

Love when someone drops this **** in a Stubbs thread.

As if the team that hearts started that season in the championship with wasn’t made up of about 9/10 new signings.

Don’t let facts get in the way though.

[Sammy7nil]

Alloa, Morton, Dumbarton, Queen of the South and Raith.

Fatigue is a good excuse as any I suppose.

Starting in February? Would those teams be fresh would they have big squads

[The 90+2]

Absolutely his remit was to get promoted. Hearts were in a bigger shambles than us due to Administration and the Huns were also in disarray

We all love Stubbs but he failed twice in his primary objection.

No it wasn’t, otherwise he wouldn’t have had his contract extended.

Hearts had a settled core of youngsters, they also had Levein and Neilson coming in having just been bought over, Levein had plans in place for months! we had just been relegated through the playoffs and most our squad was being punted. Rangers had just been promoted and had far more money to spend. Stubbs had to build a completely new team and pick the club off the floor after relegation. Now way they would have been told their remit was to win that league.

[Since90+2]

No it wasn’t, otherwise he wouldn’t have had his contract extended.

Hearts had a settled core of youngsters, they also had Levein and Neilson coming in having just been bought over, Levein had plans in place for months! we had just been relegated through the playoffs and most our squad was being punted. Rangers had just been promoted and had far more money to spend. Stubbs had to build a completely new team and pick the club off the floor after relegation. Now way they would have been told their remit was to win that league.

Yip. Hearts knew from about February time that they were going to be relegated and started putting on place plans months ahead of the new season.

We on the other hand went into free fall and never really expected to go down , when it eventually happened the club was in a terrible state.

[One Day Soon]

It's the year 2040 and the two top threads are still about Neil Lennon and Alan Stubbs.


Correct, though I plumped for the year 2035 in my post elsewhere.

Stubbs failed twice to get us promoted though, regardless of the reasons/excuses, just saying.

[The 90+2]

Love when someone drops this **** in a Stubbs thread.

As if the team that hearts started that season in the championship with wasn’t made up of about 9/10 new signings.

Don’t let facts get in the way though.


They did. But the core of their side was in place then you include Busben and Gomis (two players Levein had for years) and an experienced goalie who supported them and they where good to go. Patterson, Walker, Holt, King, Wilson, Nicholson all played loads for them that season as did Gomis Alexander and Bauben. We had no such core and a squad to begin with that everyone wanted punted. We had no choice but to rely of Craig and Scott Robertson in that season, Jordan Forster, Boothy, Danny Handling, Sam Stanton all others that played simply not good enough. Stubbs came into Hibs at the end of June 2014, Levein and Neilson went into hearts the start of May.

[jgl07]

Stubbs faced a very difficult task in his first season. It was a perfect storm with Hearts rejuvinated after Administration and able to clear out their dead wood and give youngsters games under no real pressure. Then add in Rangers coming up and one or two promotion spots available.

Stubbs had to build a team, almost from scratch. He managed to steer Hibs to second place but lost narrowly in the play-offs to Rangers. I remain unsure if Hibs would have fared any better in the play-off final than Rangers did.

That left a difficult second attempt at promotion with Rangers still around and again only or or two slots. Stubbs built a good cup team that proved capable of beating the likes of Hearts, Aberdeen, Dundee United, St Johnston and Rangers and come very close to a domestic cup double.

The team were inconsistent in the League losing far too many matches to the likes of Dumbarton and Alloa. Hibs missed out on second place to Falkirk on goal difference and hence had to play an extra two-legged play-off against Raith Rovers before taking on Falkirk. That contributed to the defeat in the semi-final of the play-offs far more than the cup exploits.

The League Cup was long gone by the time of the run-in and I am not convinced that the Scottish Cup run had any adverse impact on promotion. No-one knows what would have happened if Hibs had beaten Falkirk and gone on to face Killie in the Premiership play-off final. There is no certainty as to when the matches would have been played around the cup final.

Could Hibs have gone on to win promotion after the boost from the Scottish Cup win? Or would the play-off have cost Hibs the Cup?

Anyway, I don't hold Stubbs responsible for failing to win promotion but I didn't like him to see him walking away with the job half done. His subsequent failures in management maybe indicates that he is not cut out as a front line manager?

[The 90+2]

Correct, though I plumped for the year 2035 in my post elsewhere.

Stubbs failed twice to get us promoted though, regardless of the reasons/excuses, just saying.

Lennon and all other managers have failed to win us the Scottish cup or all failed to win us the Scottish Premiership, regardless of the reasons/excuses/how realistic it is/was.

[SMAXXA]

Groundhog Day reading this thread

[Sammy7nil]

Nobody is saying that either, they are saying that the sheer amount of games that piled up due to his successes in the cup plus key injuries meant that we were running on fumes for that entire run.

How would you have managed the issues with fatigue differently?

I am not a football manager and dont have those skills so I would not know however that is what Stubbs and his team were paid to do.

It may have been impossible I dont know what I do know is no one gives a **** it is all about end results and players, managers whole football clubs live and die on results.

I would like to ask you looking at Stubbs overall record at Hibs and then beyond what makes you think it would be worth Hibs giving him a chance to manage at a higher level now than when he left?

[Diclonius]

Love when someone drops this **** in a Stubbs thread.

As if the team that hearts started that season in the championship with wasn’t made up of about 9/10 new signings.

Don’t let facts get in the way though.

The problem wasn't the new players, it was the sheer length of time we took to get ANY new faces in the door.

By the time we made our first signing of the summer (Gray) Hearts had made 4. We'd made 5 signings before the first league game of the season, they'd made 8. Our squad clearly wasn't ready (hence us only really getting going by October, when it was already too late), theirs was settled.

[Northernhibee]

I am not a football manager and dont have those skills so I would not know however that is what Stubbs and his team were paid to do.

It may have been impossible I dont know what I do know is no one gives a **** it is all about end results and players, managers whole football clubs live and die on results.

I would like to ask you looking at Stubbs overall record at Hibs and then beyond what makes you think it would be worth Hibs giving him a chance to manage at a higher level now than when he left?
1 - Two cup finals, one cup victory
2 - Excellent recruitment of young hungry players who are earning or have earned this club a fair profit in initial investment
3 - Attractive football
4 - Conduct befitting of a Hibs manager that lead to dressing room morale increasing
5 - Results such as the 4-0 win against Rangers, 2-0 against SPL leading Aberdeen etc.

You’re getting hung up on something you concede may not have been possible for him to achieve. Stubbs left Hibs in a much better place than when he arrived, you can’t say the same about Lennon.

I also didn’t say that I want him back but if he were to come back there are plenty reasons why he should be considered.

[One Day Soon]

Lennon and all other managers have failed to win us the Scottish cup or all failed to win us the Scottish Premiership, regardless of the reasons/excuses/how realistic it is/was.

None of that changes the fact that Stubbs failed to get us promoted out of the Championship. Twice.

[Hibeesmad]

None of that changes the fact that Stubbs failed to get us promoted out of the Championship. Twice.

Shouldn’t have finished below or lose to that Falkirk team over 2 legs with the squad that we had

[shetlandhibee]

1 - Two cup finals, one cup victory
2 - Excellent recruitment of young hungry players who are earning or have earned this club a fair profit in initial investment
3 - Attractive football
4 - Conduct befitting of a Hibs manager that lead to dressing room morale increasing
5 - Results such as the 4-0 win against Rangers, 2-0 against SPL leading Aberdeen etc.

You’re getting hung up on something you concede may not have been possible for him to achieve. Stubbs left Hibs in a much better place than when he arrived, you can’t say the same about Lennon.

I also didn’t say that I want him back but if he were to come back there are plenty reasons why he should be considered.:top marksgood post..:agree:

[Nemo]

I'd have stubbs back in a heartbeat, even discounting the cup final win,

there was a bit of hope,

a sense that we were heading in the right direction on the park, a joy to watch on many occasions.

He can spot and attract, to the club, a far higher calibre of player than PH

PH honestly reminds me of ian cathro, who wanted to play a very similar type of football, thats how i think this will go...

...eye bleeding football that wont work, he wont or cant change it, in the meantime can someone please get their calculator out and

deduct 5000 from 17000 cause if we keep this clown thats where i see our attendances heading under this guy

[greenpaper55]

Alloa had not won a game at home for a year when they beat us !

[jgl07]

None of that changes the fact that Stubbs failed to get us promoted out of the Championship. Twice.

Yes but they were up against Hearts and Rangers, both on vastly bigger budgets in the first season and against Rangers the second time. The play-off system is heavily weighted against the Champions sides. Only Hibs and Partick have been relegated since this came in.

[neil7908]

I am not a football manager and dont have those skills so I would not know however that is what Stubbs and his team were paid to do.

It may have been impossible I dont know what I do know is no one gives a **** it is all about end results and players, managers whole football clubs live and die on results.

I would like to ask you looking at Stubbs overall record at Hibs and then beyond what makes you think it would be worth Hibs giving him a chance to manage at a higher level now than when he left?

Your right. Scott Allan has been rubbish expect at Hibs. He failed at West Brom, Celtic, Rotherham, Portsmouth, MK Dons and Birmingham. Why did we bother getting him back? Presumably you want rid given his terrible record outside his time with us?

[HibeeHibernian4]

Absolutely his remit was to get promoted. Hearts were in a bigger shambles than us due to Administration and the Huns were also in disarray

We all love Stubbs but he failed twice in his primary objection.

This is revisionist nonsense. Hibs were third favourites and then second favourites to win the Championship in Stubbs' two seasons.

[HibeeHibernian4]

None of that changes the fact that Stubbs failed to get us promoted out of the Championship. Twice.

This is becoming some sort of obsessive mantra for the Stubbs detractors now. Never mind how utterly devoid of context it is, they'll keep repeating it. Pathetic behaviour.

[Steve-O]

I am not a football manager and dont have those skills so I would not know however that is what Stubbs and his team were paid to do.

It may have been impossible I dont know what I do know is no one gives a **** it is all about end results and players, managers whole football clubs live and die on results.

I would like to ask you looking at Stubbs overall record at Hibs and then beyond what makes you think it would be worth Hibs giving him a chance to manage at a higher level now than when he left?

I have looked at his record and noted he has the highest win % of any Hibs manager in history other than Jock Stein who was in the job for half the games Stubbs was.

[we are hibs]

None of that changes the fact that Stubbs failed to get us promoted out of the Championship. Twice.

Also doesnt change that alan Stubbs done and achieved more for the club than the manager before him and after him.


Shouldn’t have finished below or lose to that Falkirk team over 2 legs with the squad that we had

We shouldnt have finished above rangers in our first season in the championship with the squad we had. But we did.


Alloa had not won a game at home for a year when they beat us !


Hibs hadnt won the scottish cup for 114 years before we beat the huns.

[Beefster]

I have looked at his record and noted he has the highest win % of any Hibs manager in history other than Jock Stein who was in the job for half the games Stubbs was.

Given Stubbs only managed in the Championship, you’re not comparing like for like.

[bigwheel]

Alloa had not won a game at home for a year when they beat us !

Is that the stick to beat a manager - a single result ? most managers we have seasons of major failure to focus on ...

[Hibeesmad]

We shouldnt have finished above rangers in our first season in the championship with the squad we had. But we did.


And they still beat us in the play offs

[we are hibs]

And they still beat us in the play offs

And we still ended the season achieving more than falkirk did.

[Hibeesmad]

And we still ended the season achieving more than falkirk did.

Was this the same season they knocked us out of the Scottish Cup in the semi final?

[we are hibs]

Was this the same season they knocked us out of the Scottish Cup in the semi final?

No, it was the season after when we won the scottish cup and every hibs fan had the best football weekend of their lives 👍

[One Day Soon]

This is becoming some sort of obsessive mantra for the Stubbs detractors now. Never mind how utterly devoid of context it is, they'll keep repeating it. Pathetic behaviour.

No, it's just a hard fact. He failed to get us promoted out of the Championship twice - regardless of who else was in it and what condition they and we were in. In fact I think those who refuse to recognise this cheapen his wider achievements rather than give them their due place. He also won us the cup, magnificently and legendarily, regardless of the opposition we faced and their and our relative strengths and weaknesses.

No manager is perfect which is why those who love Stubbs and hate Lennon beyond all reason and those who love Lennon and denigrate Stubbs beyond all reason seem incapable of acknowledging their respective weaknesses.

I'd have him back in a heartbeat because while he was clearly incapable of putting together a team and style of football suitable to getting promoted out of that league, he did actually put together a team and style of football which would have been well suited to the Premiership. In fact I think the cup run and win - in particular the teams we beat along the way - demonstrated that.

[Northernhibee]

Is that the stick to beat a manager - a single result ? most managers we have seasons of major failure to focus on ...

Seems to work for most on here with Heckingbottom.

[WeeRussell]

Who's missing from our list of recent managers to have a pop at from the front page of threads still? We've got our Scottish Cup winning legend and new manager well-covered now.

Probably time we brought Big Eck back-up for a kick in the baws?