Putting your job on the line PH-style

[Springbank]

Part 1 - saying we'll have fitness levels not known before (and we are timid and slow to close down)
Part 2 - signing duds like Newell and Doidge - we've seen lower league English league players relegate us before and this lot have all the same ingredients
Part 3 - saying before today's game "we will learn a lot about the players he's signed" in a test like Ibrox
Part 4 - getting beaten six goals to one

Is Heckingbottom's job on the line tonight - no
Have we learned about his team today - yes (should have been 6 even before the red card)
Have I lost faith in PH's judgement - yes, by about 90%

Do I expect him to last the season after that?.....do you?

[matty_f]

Part 1 - saying we'll have fitness levels not known before (and we are timid and slow to close down)
Part 2 - signing duds like Newell and Doidge - we've seen lower league English league players relegate us before and this lot have all the same ingredients
Part 3 - saying before today's game "we will learn a lot about the players he's signed" in a test like Ibrox
Part 4 - getting beaten six goals to one

Is Heckingbottom's job on the line tonight - no
Have we learned about his team today - yes (should have been 6 even before the red card)
Have I lost faith in PH's judgement - yes, by about 90%

Do I expect him to last the season after that?.....do you?
That was Heckingbottom’s Malmo.

Fenlon never recovered from that, I can’t say I expect Hecky to either.

[we are hibs]

Genuinely the most gutless performance from a hibs side since relegation. Up there with your malmo and hearts final.

[Vault Boy]

Fair points. A huge response is required from the team to recoup any faith.

[Onceinawhile]

His jobs not on the line for me, but a result like today puts him only 2 or 3 results away from it.

2 wins needed from the next 2 games and some of the questions that are raised after today's performance can start being forgotten about.

[MWHIBBIES]

That was Heckingbottom’s Malmo.

Fenlon never recovered from that, I can’t say I expect Hecky to either.

Or it was like Stubbs 6-2 loss at home vs Rangers. 9 months later we won the cup.

Today is all about how we react

[The Harp Awakes]

That result and performance has put massive pressure on the Manager. Difficult to see from the players he's recruited how he's going to turn things around quickly. Also can't see wee Ron waiting too long before he wields the axe.

Amidst last season's positivity around Hecky, and mostly decent results, there were 3 or 4 absolute horror shows where we did not turn up. The worry then was that he can't motivate players for big games. Today was a carbon copy.

Whittaker was always going to get a roasting at full back. Definitely should have went 352

[judas]

That was Heckingbottom’s Malmo.

Fenlon never recovered from that, I can’t say I expect Hecky to either.

This

[Shrekko]

I share a lot of the concerns people have but now getting the feeling a lot of folk are really hoping the manager and team fail. Generally ER is pretty poisonous when it’s like that so tough times ahead.

[Hibeesmad]

Next Saturday is a must win

[Borderhibbie76]

I share a lot of the concerns people have but now getting the feeling a lot of folk are really hoping the manager and team fail. Generally ER is pretty poisonous when it’s like that so tough times ahead.Its piled a lot of pressure on Hecky now...even the last 3 or 4 weeks on this board have been pretty grim a lot of fans clearly dont like or believe in him and hes now under intense pressure after a skelping like that today.
.I've given him the benefit of the doubt till now and the new guys but am seriously concerned after that shambles today

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[A Hi-Bee]

Or it was like Stubbs 6-2 loss at home vs Rangers. 9 months later we won the cup.

Today is all about how we react

We had the makings of a good side then, dont see that with this team put together by.........

[HFC93]

Next Saturday is a must win

Regardless of today's result, a league cup game vs Morton at ER is always a must win.

[RoYO!]

That’s one of the toughest games of the season out the way.

Could be a record breaking season for the OF. Think they’ll routinely skelp their opposition.

Don’t agree with the mantra that PH is pedalling tho.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Or it was like Stubbs 6-2 loss at home vs Rangers. 9 months later we won the cup.

Today is all about how we react

I remember laughing about the reaction to that result at the time because we had a really weak team on the park in what was little more than a pre season friendly. This is way way different.

[Davy Mac]

September exit.

[I'm Spartacus]

I'm not hitting the panic button just yet, but i must admit my hand did twitch towards it. It's the next game and the reaction we should see that will tell us all about how he manages this squad.

Today was absolutly gutless of the highest order - made worse by listening with the SevCo TV commentary which was horrific.

[InchHibby]

It really was a gutless performance, even before the sending of, but definitely after the sending of there was only going to be one winner.
What I can’t understand is why, after we had a player sent of, did he decide to go with two up front, absolutely baffled me and yes I agree with most on here, his signings are crap and I mean crap.
I know it’s early days but the signs have been there all through the pre season friendlies, especially against St Mirren last week.
I don’t think he’s up to it and that’s generally not like me to make judgments this early on in the campaign, but I can see this early that it’s not going to end up good.

[Keith_M]

Or it was like Stubbs 6-2 loss at home vs Rangers. 9 months later we won the cup.

Today is all about how we react


Remind me what competition that was in

[HibeeHibernian4]

Or it was like Stubbs 6-2 loss at home vs Rangers. 9 months later we won the cup.

Today is all about how we react

The Challenge Cup is a joke of a competition and I'm extremely thankful we didn't win it.

[The Captain....]

Haven't seen as angry a reaction to a result since Malmo. For it to come so soon in Heckingbottoms tenure is telling. I think most of us are far from convinced by signings, tactics or his baffling pronouncements.

He'll be gone soon..I dont reckon theres time or budget to address the glaring inadequacies in the team and squad so performances will continue to be 'timid' (which is the word I most associate with Heckys Hibs other than gash).

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[Just Alf]

That was Heckingbottom’s Malmo.

Fenlon never recovered from that, I can’t say I expect Hecky to either.Totally agree.... Next couple of games are make or break.

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[Pretty Boy]

I don't think he'll recover.

He had a tough job wining over the fans anyway as he had big shoes to fill (I include Lennon and Stubbs in that). He done OK last season until he had to play the top teams consistently but this season so far has been dour. That's as apt a word as I can think of; dull, torpid football with a few players looking well out of their depth.

I can't speak for others but the stuff being said about him from guys around me at the game and on the subway after was toxic. If he does recover it will be a comeback of Lazarus proportions.

[H18 SFR]

He's fortunate it's Morton followed by St Johnstone at home next.

[Pretty Boy]

He's fortunate it's Morton followed by St Johnstone at home next.

Anything less than 2 convincing wins and that could be a very unfortunate run of fixtures for him.

We fail to win either and he'll be under all sorts of pressure.

[Is It On....]

That was Heckingbottom’s Malmo.

Fenlon never recovered from that, I can’t say I expect Hecky to either.

I agree that was a shocking, and unacceptable result, but when Fenlon left we were 5th in the league. The big question is how PH and the Hibs players respond to the result today because, as others have said, being beaten 6-1 in the SPL is also shocking and unacceptable.

[Smartie]

Or it was like Stubbs 6-2 loss at home vs Rangers. 9 months later we won the cup.

Today is all about how we react

Within weeks of that game we'd signed John McGinn and Dylan McGeouch. That's a reaction.

Can you see us doing the same over the next few weeks?

[.Sean.]

Feels like Colin Calderwood all over again and look how that panned out

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

So? Who's our next manager then guys? 😏

[The 90+2]

Or it was like Stubbs 6-2 loss at home vs Rangers. 9 months later we won the cup.

Today is all about how we react

In a pre season friendly? Look at our team that day and look at the side that won the cup.

Heckys lost the wheel.

[The 90+2]

So? Who's our next manager then guys? 😏

Jack Ross. At least we won’t need a new scouting department m.

[Michael]

Feels like Colin Calderwood all over again and look how that panned out

I agree it seems very similar. We should give PH the benefit of the doubt for now, but I really don't like the look of this squad he's put together. The only signing that looks good is Allan - and he was already confirmed before PH joined.

[Leith Green]

Mallan and allan in the same midfield is not going to work. He has to bring in a central midfielder and fast or he wont last long imo

[Onion]

Jury definitely out on Hecky. Had a great honeymoon period but started to lose it towards the end of the season.

With Stubbs and Lennon, we had genuine resolve and backbone when it came to OF games, and the results to match. With Hecky, we get far too much deference - like someone who thought there were only 2 teams north of the border and we're not worthy to compete with them. His passive, negative approach has cost us in previous games, yet he persists with it. Makes no sense. He SHOULD have more faith in the team HE has built over the summer but it doesn't show.

Just as well we've got the Yams to laugh at. 24 hours in football, eh ?

[Onion]

Mallan and allan in the same midfield is not going to work. He has to bring in a central midfielder and fast or he wont last long imo

Problem Hecky has now is that the Board can see the quality of his other signings. Are they going to release more funds to him ?

[NAE NOOKIE]

Even with 10 men on the park a result and performance like that just cant be acceptable. It would be mental to say Heckingbottom's job is on the line, but so far and as others have said the walk isn't measuring up to the talk and if it doesn't start to soon he will lose the fans and there's only one thing that will happen after that.

He talked about a high pressing game, where is it and why hasn't he signed the players he needs to play it?, because clearly the ones he has just now cant do it.

The players he has brought in have shown no sign of being a cut above what most of our opponents will have, Vela is neat and tidy, but a midfield enforcer? .. no chance. Newell is a cross between cant be arsed and just slow, Doige so far hasn't looked any better than bloomin' Oli Shaw .. certainly nowhere near £250,000 better. Jackson looks like a younger Daz, which is fine, but it hardly makes us a better team. James looks not bad, but I for one haven't seen the standard of player others seem to have.

I posted a while back that my fear was that Heckingbottom has that mindset prevalent in football, both Scottish and English, that if you can cut it in league 2 or 1 in the EFL you will improve a Scottish premiership team … or that at least one out of 3 players from there will 'skoosh it' up here. That's never been the case and so far isn't proving any different with the ones he has brought to us.

The question for me has to be, is he signing players he thinks would do a job if he was managing in EFL one or two thinking they will do a great job in the Scottish premiership based on experience of this league which amounts to half a season and an incorrect opinion based on that half season that a load of EFL average players makes a good Scottish premiership team?

As for the players he inherited. I feared Whittaker would be shown up today and that's exactly what happened, the guy through no fault of his own just hasn't got what it takes to compete against top 6 teams any more. Its becoming clearer and clearer to me at least that he is going to have to accept that he cant play Mallan and Allan in the same team against any of the top 4 teams, especially away from home and especially if he is going to take that rabbit in the headlights approach to games against them.

He set out his stall from the beginning against Celtic in the cup at ER that his approach would be ultra cautious against stronger teams, do that and results like that one and today's are what you get 8 times out of 10.

This rant isn't a knee jerk reaction to today …. I wasn't overly convinced having watched us live against Arbroath, Newcastle and St Mirren and Elgin on TV that we weren't too powder puff, too pedestrian and had too many passengers. I was looking to today as the litmus test of where we were at, especially to see if we could raise the level and play bravely with pace and energy when we needed to …. just about every fear I had after watching those games came to fruition today with the answer to all 3 of these questions being an emphatic no.

IMO Hecky is a couple of poor results against bottom 6 teams and a lost home derby from being under real pressure.

[fairafarhib]

So? Who's our next manager then guys? 😏

Goodwin

[Weegreenman]

When I saw our midfield today my first thought was, how are we going to compete. Now if I can work that our, then please tell me why our manager can’t ? Worrying!

[roo62]

Jack Ross. At least we won’t need a new scouting department m.

Steve Robinson for me

[Speedway]

So? Who's our next manager then guys? 😏

Whoever fits the bill of having Lennon’s fire, drive and track record without the baggage, baffling selections and OF connections.

[Hibernia&Alba]

So far there is a huge disparity between his words (fitness and pressing and game) and the reality (pedestrian and lacklustre). He can't afford another performance like that. We need to see rapid improvement.

[jacomo]

Or it was like Stubbs 6-2 loss at home vs Rangers. 9 months later we won the cup.

Today is all about how we react


:agree:

[Purple & Green]

Or it was like Stubbs 6-2 loss at home vs Rangers. 9 months later we won the cup.

Today is all about how we react

To be fair today was nothing like the 6-2 game - we battered them that day.

[basehibby]

I share a lot of the concerns people have but now getting the feeling a lot of folk are really hoping the manager and team fail. Generally ER is pretty poisonous when it’s like that so tough times ahead.

I disagree with the sentiment expressed there. There are always some fans who are quick to criticise but sometimes it is justified - and inevitably when that happens there will be an element of "told you so" expressed on fans forums. I don't like relentless or gratuitous negativity any more than you and very much believe in backing the team to the hilt - particularly on match day. But fans have a right to express their opinions and where better to do that than here on a fans forum who's sole purpose is to talk everything and anything Hibs?!?

[Paisley Hibby]

He's fortunate it's Morton followed by St Johnstone at home next.

Or if he loses both of those games he's toast....

[bigswissstriker]

To be fair today was nothing like the 6-2 game - we battered them that day.

Wouldn’t say we battered them, but we definitely played a far weakened side and rangers were right up for it on the day. They really wanted to win that cup for some reason

[mcfly]

The board has to back him.

They spent ages recruiting him. They have a recruitment team

However I do get the feeling the fans are not far away from turning against him.

He needs big performances from his team the next few weeks.

The football we are watching just now (take out Scott Allan) is dull and boring. I really hope I’m wrong but I fear we have employed a poor manager. He just doesn’t inspire and galvanise the fans. I don’t think he’s that bothered either.

As I say I really hope I’m wrong and he turns it around but I’m not convinced.

[Smartie]

The board has to back him.

They spent ages recruiting him. They have a recruitment team

However I do get the feeling the fans are not far away from turning against him.

He needs big performances from his team the next few weeks.

The football we are watching just now (take out Scott Allan) is dull and boring. I really hope I’m wrong but I fear we have employed a poor manager. He just doesn’t inspire and galvanise the fans. I don’t think he’s that bothered either.

As I say I really hope I’m wrong and he turns it around but I’m not convinced.

I've hard a few folk say this and I'm not sure I agree.

We toiled against St Mirren, that's for sure, but they set up in a difficult shape that was tough to break down. They were well-drilled and hard to get at. In the end we got our rewards but I thought their decent defensive work stopped us playing.

I hate the "white flag" approach to games against Rangers and Celtis, I'll give you that. Our attempts to contain them have not just been abject failures, they have been very unattractive.

We played some decent stuff in the second half of last season, and by the time we played Arbroth in the LC I though things were starting to click. Every now and again we put lovely wee passing moves together, normally out wide.

He's got a lot to prove over the next few games, results and performance-wise but I don't really mind the football he tries to play.

I'm a veteran of the "every man back defending every corner" Alex Miller days, so my measure of dull football may be different to others.

[neil7908]

We were told after the St Mirren game that the managers much vaunted high press wasn't possible as the opposition sat all their men behind the ball and didn't give us a chance to play our game.

Now we've played a team that went at us, put lots of men forward and left space behind their back line. And the high press was nowhere to be seen.

So when are we going to see it in action when it'll actually work?

The 4-3-3 isn't working with the players available and needs a major rethink.

[bigwheel]

I've hard a few folk say this and I'm not sure I agree.

We toiled against St Mirren, that's for sure, but they set up in a difficult shape that was tough to break down. They were well-drilled and hard to get at. In the end we got our rewards but I thought their decent defensive work stopped us playing.

I hate the "white flag" approach to games against Rangers and Celtis, I'll give you that. Our attempts to contain them have not just been abject failures, they have been very unattractive.

We played some decent stuff in the second half of last season, and by the time we played Arbroth in the LC I though things were starting to click. Every now and again we put lovely wee passing moves together, normally out wide.

He's got a lot to prove over the next few games, results and performance-wise but I don't really mind the football he tries to play.

I'm a veteran of the "every man back defending every corner" Alex Miller days, so my measure of dull football may be different to others.

I like the balance in this post..agree with the points made. Thanks for some non emotional analysis [emoji106][emoji106]

[Percy Vere]

I like the balance in this post..agree with the points made. Thanks for some non emotional analysis [emoji106][emoji106]

I really dislike the vitriol aimed at the manager and the players as well. We seem to forget he arrived last season to a Hibs team in an absolute shambles. He went on an amazing unbeaten run and got us top six.
Of course losing to them 6-1 is sore, but I'd hope that's a one off and everyone learns from that.
Hibs fans need to get behind the team and see where we are in 10 games time.
We still need a striker and maybe a midfielder but it looks like Hibs won't support further spending. So not PHs fault.
Let's get behind the Hi bees pleeeeease.

[Since452]

I really dislike the vitriol aimed at the manager and the players as well. We seem to forget he arrived last season to a Hibs team in an absolute shambles. He went on an amazing unbeaten run and got us top six.
Of course losing to them 6-1 is sore, but I'd hope that's a one off and everyone learns from that.
Hibs fans need to get behind the team and see where we are in 10 games time.
We still need a striker and maybe a midfielder but it looks like Hibs won't support further spending. So not PHs fault.
Let's get behind the Hi bees pleeeeease.

Said it on the match day thread and got shot down but really feel Rangers at Ibrox came too soon for us. Rangers started pre season well before us and have been playing high level European games not to mention pumping Marseilles and comfortably beating Derby. Infact the Derby manager was on record as saying he was very impressed with them. Their squad is far more settled than ours and money buys you better players. Didn't help playing the 2nd half with 10 men. I'd been worrying about that game since the fixtures came out. Hopefully we can regroup and push on. I'm sure we will.

[Barman Stanton]

I really dislike the vitriol aimed at the manager and the players as well. We seem to forget he arrived last season to a Hibs team in an absolute shambles. He went on an amazing unbeaten run and got us top six.
Of course losing to them 6-1 is sore, but I'd hope that's a one off and everyone learns from that.
Hibs fans need to get behind the team and see where we are in 10 games time.
We still need a striker and maybe a midfielder but it looks like Hibs won't support further spending. So not PHs fault.
Let's get behind the Hi bees pleeeeease.

Agree. As it stands we have 3 points from 6 and in the next round of the cup. Yet there are people who are star'ing out Heckys name like it is a swear word. Slight over reaction! It was a very bad result at the weekend but it seems to have played into the hands of those that already had it in for him. Actually dreading what the atmosphere will be like at ER at the weekend. Some almost cant wait for him and his signings to fail.