Formula 1

[patch1875]

When you read the stewards report it’s pretty fair IMO.

The more I see it the more I get the decision.

Max really should have backed off as Lewis was always going to leave little room in the corner.

[Northernhibee]

The more I see it the more I get the decision.

Max really should have backed off as Lewis was always going to leave little room in the corner.

Plenty of drivers took the little escape road and conceded position, Max absolutely should have yielded.

This may be controversial but I don’t see him in the top tier of drivers on the grid, he’s a very marketable and fast driver who has a team built around him but doesn’t have the decision making or mental attributes to be on the level of a Hamilton, Leclerc etc.

[McD]

Plenty of drivers took the little escape road and conceded position, Max absolutely should have yielded.

This may be controversial but I don’t see him in the top tier of drivers on the grid, he’s a very marketable and fast driver who has a team built around him but doesn’t have the decision making or mental attributes to be on the level of a Hamilton, Leclerc etc.


theres a nasty arrogance coming from MV now, where he expects to treat other drivers with disdain on the track, yet also expects them to yield constantly

on corner 4 the situations were reversed, he gave no space and Hamilton had to take the escape over the bumps and lost a position because of it. Then at turn 2 he suddenly expects Hamilton to give him space

i used to have a lot of time for MV, and thought he’d grow out of the Uber aggressiveness that he’s exhibited, but he’s not.

[lord bunberry]

theres a nasty arrogance coming from MV now, where he expects to treat other drivers with disdain on the track, yet also expects them to yield constantly

on corner 4 the situations were reversed, he gave no space and Hamilton had to take the escape over the bumps and lost a position because of it. Then at turn 2 he suddenly expects Hamilton to give him space

i used to have a lot of time for MV, and thought he’d grow out of the Uber aggressiveness that he’s exhibited, but he’s not.
Every world champion has had that. Schumacher was the worst for it. Verstappen is arrogant, but he backs that up with race wins. Nice guys get nowhere in F1.

[McD]

Every world champion has had that. Schumacher was the worst for it. Verstappen is arrogant, but he backs that up with race wins. Nice guys get nowhere in F1.


dont disagree, I think there’s one or two who go a bit too far - Schumacher being a prime example :greengrin

[lord bunberry]

dont disagree, I think there’s one or two who go a bit too far - Schumacher being a prime example :greengrin
It’s a very fine line and when there’s a championship to be won it’s a line most will be prepared to cross. All the greats had that nasty streak at times, It’s what makes it so fascinating imo. I agree about Schumacher, he was outrageous at times. :greengrin

[patch1875]

Red Bull are definitely in with a title shot this year but they don’t seem to have the composure when under pressure.

It’s no wonder Max is the way he is, his father and boss Horner are a couple of arrogant tossers

[Northernhibee]

Every world champion has had that. Schumacher was the worst for it. Verstappen is arrogant, but he backs that up with race wins. Nice guys get nowhere in F1.

World champions Jenson Button, Kimi Raikkonen and Damon Hill may disagree. All very fair racers and although they’ve bumped wheels with other drivers, not nearly to the same extent or possibly intent.

Tbh, even Lewis is very fair most of the time when it comes to giving space and yielding when it’s best to do so.

[lord bunberry]

World champions Jenson Button, Kimi Raikkonen and Damon Hill may disagree. All very fair racers and although they’ve bumped wheels with other drivers, not nearly to the same extent or possibly intent.

Tbh, even Lewis is very fair most of the time when it comes to giving space and yielding when it’s best to do so.
True but that’s probably the reason they only won one title. Hamilton has had plenty moments where he’s crashed or refused to give up a corner, his battles with Vettel and especially Rosberg got nasty at times. Lately he’s had the luxury of not really having a serious challenger so has been able to take a far more pragmatic view when things get a bit hairy. Hamilton has a challenger this season and you can see the formidable competitor that he is coming out again, he won’t back down to Verstappen and there will be more of these incidents between now and the end of the season.

[Northernhibee]

True but that’s probably the reason they only won one title. Hamilton has had plenty moments where he’s crashed or refused to give up a corner, his battles with Vettel and especially Rosberg got nasty at times. Lately he’s had the luxury of not really having a serious challenger so has been able to take a far more pragmatic view when things get a bit hairy. Hamilton has a challenger this season and you can see the formidable competitor that he is coming out again, he won’t back down to Verstappen and there will be more of these incidents between now and the end of the season.

Thing is, Lewis knows when to hold and when to yield, he knows it’s on.

Max will only ever win a fraction of what he could as he only ever does one thing. He’s just not clever enough.

[lord bunberry]

Thing is, Lewis knows when to hold and when to yield, he knows it’s on.

Max will only ever win a fraction of what he could as he only ever does one thing. He’s just not clever enough.
I would agree with that to an extent. He’s still young enough and he’s not as rash as he was when he first came into F1, if he wins the championship this year I think you’ll see a more mature driver next year.

[McD]

True but that’s probably the reason they only won one title. Hamilton has had plenty moments where he’s crashed or refused to give up a corner, his battles with Vettel and especially Rosberg got nasty at times. Lately he’s had the luxury of not really having a serious challenger so has been able to take a far more pragmatic view when things get a bit hairy. Hamilton has a challenger this season and you can see the formidable competitor that he is coming out again, he won’t back down to Verstappen and there will be more of these incidents between now and the end of the season.


i wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some behind-the-scenes stern words for both of them from the powers that be, they’ll be terrified of someone getting seriously injured, there may be some serious threats of punishment if there isn’t a bit more common sense applied

[patch1875]

Really good race today.

Poor Lando!

[The_Exile]

Really good race today.

Poor Lando!

Absolutely gutted for him. He kinda brought it on himself by refusing to come in but the team should've been much more forceful. The whole team will learn a lot from that today though which is no bad thing.

I was massively impressed with Max today on that damage limitation job he managed to pull off. With Lewis likely having to take an engine penalty at some point within the next few races it really is game on in the drivers championship.

[patch1875]

Absolutely gutted for him. He kinda brought it on himself by refusing to come in but the team should've been much more forceful. The whole team will learn a lot from that today though which is no bad thing.

I was massively impressed with Max today on that damage limitation job he managed to pull off. With Lewis likely having to take an engine penalty at some point within the next few races it really is game on in the drivers championship.

Such a tough call to make when your in the lead. As Mercedes said afterwards it was an easy decision for them as they were racing Max not Lando.

He’s a fine young driver and Mclaren are a massive improvement so hope he gets his win soon.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://news.sky.com/story/formula-one-qatar-to-host-first-its-grand-prix-in-november-after-signing-10-year-deal-12422089

Australia has cancelled its November race due to covid it will now be held in qatar. Qatar will host a race for 10 years its announced

[lord bunberry]

It’s looking like a wet race today. Hamilton starting down the grid should make this a good race.

[Jack]

Toto says its Scottish rain lol 😆

[Northernhibee]

Howler of a decision from Mercedes. Absolutely no idea what was going through their heads. Lewis right to be enraged.

[lord bunberry]

Howler of a decision from Mercedes. Absolutely no idea what was going through their heads. Lewis right to be enraged.
If Hamilton had came in when he was first told to he would’ve had had a much better chance of finishing 3rd. He was 1.5 seconds a lap slower than all the cars around him. Even if he’d stayed out he’d have been passed by all the other cars. Occon didn’t pit and was 4 seconds slower than the car behind him on the last lap.

[Franck Le God]

If Hamilton had came in when he was first told to he would’ve had had a much better chance of finishing 3rd. He was 1.5 seconds a lap slower than all the cars around him. Even if he’d stayed out he’d have been passed by all the other cars. Occon didn’t pit and was 4 seconds slower than the car behind him on the last lap.

Occon lost 17 seconds on Stroll ahead of him as well after Stroll pitted. Although I'm sure Hamilton's tyres would have lasted it would have been the wrong call IMO.


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[lord bunberry]

Occon lost 17 seconds on Stroll ahead of him as well after Stroll pitted. Although I'm sure Hamilton's tyres would have lasted it would have been the wrong call IMO.


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Yip, he’d have finished in the same position or worse if he’d stayed out.

[patch1875]

Great battle. Championship going to go to the wire.

[Franck Le God]

Brilliant tactical battle there. DRS at the end helped Max over the line but overall great race for him and Lewis.


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[lord bunberry]

I really thought Lewis was going to pass him, but Max had just enough left. The next 2 circuits are traditionally strong for Red Bull, 2 wins for Max could see him very close to his 1st world championship. Somehow though I don’t think it will happen like that, there’s been so many twists and turns this season it will almost certainly go down to the last race.

[lord bunberry]

Good win for Max but it was a pretty dull race. The first lap was good, but it was a bit of a procession after that.

[Northernhibee]

Verstappen can afford a DNF now I reckon

[McD]

Verstappen can afford a DNF now I reckon


in reality yeah possibly, mathematically not quite.

19 points behind, 4 races left. 25 points for a win, 18 for second.

so if LH wins every race from now, he’d gain 28 points on MV, putting him 9 ahead. Even if MV took all 4 fastest laps, LH can still win.

[Radium]

https://twitter.com/analyticscapper/status/1459529369450336258?s=21

Hamilton surely starting at the back of the grid if his DRS was opening too wide.

Max should be nowhere near Hamilton’s car and has just muddied the waters. He should all but secure the title this weekend.


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[lord bunberry]

Great drive from Hamilton today, but there’s a lot of questions to be answered. Are Mercedes’ cheating? That car is unbelievably quick, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a car make up that many positions in such a short space of time. Right now Hamilton will win the race tomorrow as long as he doesn’t crash.

[Radium]

Great drive from Hamilton today, but there’s a lot of questions to be answered. Are Mercedes’ cheating? That car is unbelievably quick, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a car make up that many positions in such a short space of time. Right now Hamilton will win the race tomorrow as long as he doesn’t crash.

Post race Norris mentioned that his fight is not with Hamilton so wonder how much fight there was in many today.

That said, temps were down and he has a brand new engine on a track where DRS matters so was able to push.

Still a fun drive to watch


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[lord bunberry]

Post race Norris mentioned that his fight is not with Hamilton so wonder how much fight there was in many today.

That said, temps were down and he has a brand new engine on a track where DRS matters so was able to push.

Still a fun drive to watch


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I think there definitely was a fair few drivers not wanting to ruin their race and just letting him past, added to the fact that Hamilton had absolutely nothing to lose probably worked in his favour. Time will tell whether Mercedes are up to no good, either way it should be a cracking race today.

[Northernhibee]

That was a Senna-esque drive. Phenomenal.

[RyeSloan]

Simply sublime from Hamilton.

Sure he has a rocket powered car under him but to pull off so many overtakes in two races to end up winning is just ridiculous.

How Max never got a 5 second penalty for that move at turn 4 is beyond me!

[Radium]

Red Bull had the best aero which was shown in the second sector and last week. The Mercedes is a bullet on the straights which came through.

Both teams playing F1 politics which just adds to the drama.

I must admit that I am amazed that Hamilton was able to plough through the field but that was down to forgetting how strong straight line speed was at the circuit


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[Northernhibee]

Simply sublime from Hamilton.

Sure he has a rocket powered car under him but to pull off so many overtakes in two races to end up winning is just ridiculous.

How Max never got a 5 second penalty for that move at turn 4 is beyond me!
Flat out dangerous from Max. Yet again.

[lord bunberry]

Simply sublime from Hamilton.

Sure he has a rocket powered car under him but to pull off so many overtakes in two races to end up winning is just ridiculous.

How Max never got a 5 second penalty for that move at turn 4 is beyond me!
That was a slam dunk penalty, it was also weird that they didn’t show the onboard camera angle from Max’s car. The last 3 races are going to be really hard fought and not giving a penalty there has set a precedent.

[RyeSloan]

That was a slam dunk penalty, it was also weird that they didn’t show the onboard camera angle from Max’s car. The last 3 races are going to be really hard fought and not giving a penalty there has set a precedent.

Considering all the furore over Hamilton at Silverstone and how he wasn’t going to make the apex etc. it was even stranger. They didn’t even formally investigate the incident.

Even without the on board it was clear as day Max didn’t attempt to hit the apex and then deliberately ran wide on the exit.

Mercedes were clearly annoyed and just as well it didn’t impact the result. Lewis was smart though and he knew Max would try something so was ready for him, he wasn’t going to let Max do a repeat of Monza and use the oldest F1 trick in the book of causing a DNF of your opponent to keep you in the championship lead.

Mercedes also clearly using this and the DRS thing to create a bunker mentality. Love them or loathe them you have to admire their sheer determination to keep on it. To get an organisation to stay so focused after such a long run of being at the top is really impressive.

Can’t wait for the next instalment of what’s been a classic season!

[silverhibee]

Bottas to crash in to Max in next race at start if it’s possible.

[Northernhibee]

Two new tracks coming up is an interesting one, not quite sure who that benefits.

[Jack]

Bottas to crash in to Max in next race at start if it’s possible.

He's already done that.

Great race yesterday.

[Radium]

https://twitter.com/zerothrottle/status/1460477238659338242?s=21

In the technological age that F1 lives in this should have been looked at on the day and sorted then. Worse case scenario for RB was a 5 second penalty or they could have let Hamilton through. Anything retrospective now puts MV down to third


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[Northernhibee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJOczcJArTk

Absolutely no attempt to hit the apex there. Damning.

[patch1875]

Mercedes request a review

[Northernhibee]

Mercedes request a review

The issue is that I think the only penalty they could implement now is a grid penalty for the next round, and I don't think it warrants that. It's a five second penalty all day long though, but the opportunity to do that has passed.

[Hibby70]

The issue is that I think the only penalty they could implement now is a grid penalty for the next round, and I don't think it warrants that. It's a five second penalty all day long though, but the opportunity to do that has passed.

Can they note give him a 5 second penalty in the next race?

[Northernhibee]

Can they note give him a 5 second penalty in the next race?

I don’t think so but I could be wrong.

[Sergio sledge]

The issue is that I think the only penalty they could implement now is a grid penalty for the next round, and I don't think it warrants that. It's a five second penalty all day long though, but the opportunity to do that has passed.

Why can't they just apply the 5 second penalty to the race results? Is there a cut off time after the race this has to be done?

[Northernhibee]

Why can't they just apply the 5 second penalty to the race results? Is there a cut off time after the race this has to be done?

Just looked into it- appears I’m wrong and a five second penalty could still be applied.

[Sergio sledge]

Just looked into it- appears I’m wrong and a five second penalty could still be applied.

That's good, it would be the most sensible option. I like Verstappen and he's doing a good job for my F1 fantasy team this year, but it seems pretty clear from that video that he didn't make much attempt to make the corner. 5 second penalty would put him behind Bottas and reduce the gap to Hamilton to 11 points. Could be massive in the championship race.

[Northernhibee]

That's good, it would be the most sensible option. I like Verstappen and he's doing a good job for my F1 fantasy team this year, but it seems pretty clear from that video that he didn't make much attempt to make the corner. 5 second penalty would put him behind Bottas and reduce the gap to Hamilton to 11 points. Could be massive in the championship race.

I think he had every intention to push Lewis as wide as possible going by that but the more I watch it the more you notice how much he understeers and the front end drifts out. As a result they both go off.

A time penalty is the right outcome IMO

[RyeSloan]

I think he had every intention to push Lewis as wide as possible going by that but the more I watch it the more you notice how much he understeers and the front end drifts out. As a result they both go off.

A time penalty is the right outcome IMO

Yeah he understeers on purpose. No locking of the front wheels, no attempt to add extra steering angle…he knew what he was doing.

It was clear as day without the onboard in my opinion and I remain baffled at the decision, especially when compared to other very similar incidents.

Norris at Austria is the obvious one where I think that was much more of a ‘let them race’ scenario but he still got punished.

While I think Mercedes have all the info required for it to be reviewed and a retrospective time penalty applied I’d be very surprised if they succeed.

But IF they do it will just add even more spice to the already rather spicy pot!

[McD]

Yeah he understeers on purpose. No locking of the front wheels, no attempt to add extra steering angle…he knew what he was doing.

It was clear as day without the onboard in my opinion and I remain baffled at the decision, especially when compared to other very similar incidents.

Norris at Austria is the obvious one where I think that was much more of a ‘let them race’ scenario but he still got punished.

While I think Mercedes have all the info required for it to be reviewed and a retrospective time penalty applied I’d be very surprised if they succeed.

But IF they do it will just add even more spice to the already rather spicy pot!


It definitely makes things even spicier. It’s also very interesting due to how max, Horner, and red bull in general reacted to what happened at silverstone, which was a very similar situation, I wouldn’t be surprised if Mercedes’ are making this point privately.

Red bull wanted a harsher penalty applied to Hamilton (he got a 10 second penalty iirc), whether anyone agrees with penalising him or not, but in a similar scenario, red bull were pushing for a ‘let them race’ mindset to be applied. The big difference is clearly the aftermath, but are red bull seriously trying to say that because Hamilton avoided a collision then there shouldn’t be a penalty?

[RyeSloan]

It definitely makes things even spicier. It’s also very interesting due to how max, Horner, and red bull in general reacted to what happened at silverstone, which was a very similar situation, I wouldn’t be surprised if Mercedes’ are making this point privately.

Red bull wanted a harsher penalty applied to Hamilton (he got a 10 second penalty iirc), whether anyone agrees with penalising him or not, but in a similar scenario, red bull were pushing for a ‘let them race’ mindset to be applied. The big difference is clearly the aftermath, but are red bull seriously trying to say that because Hamilton avoided a collision then there shouldn’t be a penalty?

Oddly it was Michael Massi that seemed to think that as both ran off the track that was what made the incident OK and not deserving of a penalty…totally missing the point that Hamilton was only there because Max put him there!

It’s also curious as to how much Massi has had to say on this. It’s normally the Stewards the decide if there is an investigation to be had and Massi as race director has zero input. But even on the radio to Red Bull at the time he seemed quite open in saying he saw it as ‘one of those things’ when in reality he should be stating totally neutral and letting the Stewards explain the why’s and why not’s.

And yeah Red Bull are the masters of changing their view depending on their perspective but let’s be honest that’s the same for most sports and has always been the way in F1!

[lord bunberry]

Oddly it was Michael Massi that seemed to think that as both ran off the track that was what made the incident OK and not deserving of a penalty…totally missing the point that Hamilton was only there because Max put him there!

It’s also curious as to how much Massi has had to say on this. It’s normally the Stewards the decide if there is an investigation to be had and Massi as race director has zero input. But even on the radio to Red Bull at the time he seemed quite open in saying he saw it as ‘one of those things’ when in reality he should be stating totally neutral and letting the Stewards explain the why’s and why not’s.

And yeah Red Bull are the masters of changing their view depending on their perspective but let’s be honest that’s the same for most sports and has always been the way in F1!
Your last point is so true and the reason I don’t pay much attention to team principles bumping their gums. They’re all hypocrites and they’re all intelligent people, they know they’re hypocrites and each of them are happy to play the game.

[RyeSloan]

Your last point is so true and the reason I don’t pay much attention to team principles bumping their gums. They’re all hypocrites and they’re all intelligent people, they know they’re hypocrites and each of them are happy to play the game.

Yeah totally but that’s I suppose part of F1…there’s always that under current of distrust and gamesmanship!

I see Merc have won their right to appeal or what ever so first hurdle cleared for them.

I hope they get a retrospective just so I can see Horners face on Saturday and hear what he has to say!

Lots of people don’t like him but I’ve got to admire him and Toto’s use of words and their drama Queen acts, takes some skill to be that good at it so often. And that’s before mad Helmut has his say [emoji1787]

[McD]

Oddly it was Michael Massi that seemed to think that as both ran off the track that was what made the incident OK and not deserving of a penalty…totally missing the point that Hamilton was only there because Max put him there!

It’s also curious as to how much Massi has had to say on this. It’s normally the Stewards the decide if there is an investigation to be had and Massi as race director has zero input. But even on the radio to Red Bull at the time he seemed quite open in saying he saw it as ‘one of those things’ when in reality he should be stating totally neutral and letting the Stewards explain the why’s and why not’s.

And yeah Red Bull are the masters of changing their view depending on their perspective but let’s be honest that’s the same for most sports and has always been the way in F1!


Your last point is so true and the reason I don’t pay much attention to team principles bumping their gums. They’re all hypocrites and they’re all intelligent people, they know they’re hypocrites and each of them are happy to play the game.


Yeah totally but that’s I suppose part of F1…there’s always that under current of distrust and gamesmanship!

I see Merc have won their right to appeal or what ever so first hurdle cleared for them.

I hope they get a retrospective just so I can see Horners face on Saturday and hear what he has to say!

Lots of people don’t like him but I’ve got to admire him and Toto’s use of words and their drama Queen acts, takes some skill to be that good at it so often. And that’s before mad Helmut has his say [emoji1787]


yeah totally agree, they’re all good at proclaiming themselves as pure as the driven slush :greengrin

usually whilst trying to find ways to bend the rules to their absolute limit, and hoping to catch out the competitors doing the same thing.

as you said, same with every sport these days (with the general exceptions of golf and snooker)

[RyeSloan]

No surprise the Merc review request has been thrown out.

Nothing significant in the new footage according to the Stewards…

So they clearly accepted the fact at the time that Max made no attempt to take the corner on the racing line.

I’m sure this ruling will cause some rather interesting situations in the next races as the drivers immediately take to running wide any time someone tries to come round their outside.

I’m pretty certain that the next time it happens there will be a penalty applied and the whole controversy will blow up once again!

[Northernhibee]

Hopefully Bottas puts him off at turn one on Sunday now that’s perfectly fine.

[patch1875]

Lewis would have done the same. They are fighting for the championship won’t give each other an inch let alone back out of a corner.

[Radium]

Stewards really have given themselves a headache. Overtaking on the outside is being effectively ruled out as the car on the inside can just run the other off the road.


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[Radium]

Everyone trying everything

https://twitter.com/f1/status/1461733392144388097?s=21


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[lord bunberry]

Lewis would have done the same. They are fighting for the championship won’t give each other an inch let alone back out of a corner.
Absolutely. Folk suggesting that Max is somehow doing something out of the ordinary are wide of the mark, Hamilton and every other champion have done far worse at certain points in a close title race. All’s fair in love and war.

[RyeSloan]

Absolutely. Folk suggesting that Max is somehow doing something out of the ordinary are wide of the mark, Hamilton and every other champion have done far worse at certain points in a close title race. All’s fair in love and war.

Ah yeah totally…it’s the name of the game!

BUT very similar moves have been punished this season with a penalty, those rules appear to have somewhat morphed when it comes to Max this time around.

Even the drivers are saying that this judgement changes the game somewhat….but as I said I reckon the next one to try it will find out it was only a very temporary thing!

[lord bunberry]

Ah yeah totally…it’s the name of the game!

BUT very similar moves have been punished this season with a penalty, those rules appear to have somewhat morphed when it comes to Max this time around.

Even the drivers are saying that this judgement changes the game somewhat….but as I said I reckon the next one to try it will find out it was only a very temporary thing!
I absolutely agree, it was a definite penalty. F1 is box office and at this stage of the season decisions are made with with what’s going to sell more advertising in mind. Seasons like this don’t happen very often and you can bet your bottom dollar that those in charge will do everything they can to ensure it goes down to the last race. In F1 the rules are there to be manipulated and interpreted in such a way that benefits the sport and it’s appeal to the vast tv audience. It’s dodgy and unethical at times, but I still love it.

[RyeSloan]

I absolutely agree, it was a definite penalty. F1 is box office and at this stage of the season decisions are made with with what’s going to sell more advertising in mind. Seasons like this don’t happen very often and you can bet your bottom dollar that those in charge will do everything they can to ensure it goes down to the last race. In F1 the rules are there to be manipulated and interpreted in such a way that benefits the sport and it’s appeal to the vast tv audience. It’s dodgy and unethical at times, but I still love it.

Oh absolutely. The politics are as much a fabric of the sport as the racing is.

Was rewatching Senna the other night and the swapping of the pole grid spot to the dirty side of the track before his infamous crash into Prost was a brilliant example.

[Stairway 2 7]

I've no problem with max doing it, Winners do what they can. But not giving the penalty just opens up everything now. As lecrerc said, if this isn't penalised the game is now changed

[Northernhibee]

Willing for this to be quoted if I end up with egg on my face - Danny Ric 2022 drivers champion.

[RyeSloan]

Willing for this to be quoted if I end up with egg on my face - Danny Ric 2022 drivers champion.

Don’t see it myself as he has to get past his team mate first…something he’s struggled to do so far this season.

But with the rule changes I suppose the whole shooting match is up in the air so make sure you stick a couple of quid on it just in case [emoji2957]

[Northernhibee]

Verstappen five place grid penalty for ignoring double yellows and Bottas three place for ignoring single waved yellow.

[patch1875]

Can’t see him catching Lewis today with the penalty he will be hoping someone takes him out the first corner.

[RyeSloan]

But if a dull race. Lewis was 30 seconds ahead of everyone but Max after 16 laps!

Good to see Alonso get a podium.

Not sure what Merc were thinking leaving Bottas out so long on those mediums, bad error that.

[Radium]

But if a dull race. Lewis was 30 seconds ahead of everyone but Max after 16 laps!

Good to see Alonso get a podium.

Not sure what Merc were thinking leaving Bottas out so long on those mediums, bad error that.

Mercedes didn’t use the new engine in this race either.

Just caught up with the highlights, front lefts seemed to become a problem


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[Stairway 2 7]

Lewis now bookies favourite, but max has the points on the board

[drummondst34]

F 1 on TV - Sunday 12th December

Does anyone know , any pubs etc , particularly in the Abbeyhill, Easter Rd , South Leith , or the city centre,
that are likely to have the F1 on at all? The alternative attraction ? is the Hearts v Rangers game .

I am visiting Edinburgh, for family birthdays in December and my daughter is F1 daft , as much as I am Hibee
daft . Any help or ideas would be much appreciated , as where to go on the 12th , to see this live on TV .

Cheers
Drummond St34

[Northernhibee]

Sir Frank Williams dead, aged 79.

I grew up with F1 and BTCC in the '90s and he's a true great of the sport, those Williams Renault cars were a thing of beauty.

[lord bunberry]

This is the first weekend where the the title can be decided which is remarkable considering how one sided it’s been in previous years. Will it make a difference to how Hamilton approaches the race? A dnf would almost certainly mean game over for him but he’s got years of experience behind him to be able to deal with the pressure. Will Max go all out to win the race and leave himself the luxury of not having to do anything spectacular in the final race? The fact that it’s a new track only adds to the intrigue.

[Itsnoteasy]

Lewis Hamilton wearing a LGBTQ coloured helmet. That will go down like a lead balloon in Saudi

[lord bunberry]

Lewis Hamilton wearing a LGBTQ coloured helmet. That will go down like a lead balloon in Saudi
Fair play to him, he’s obviously untouchable and can get away with doing that, but I don’t agree with F1 going there.

[PeeJay]

This is the first weekend where the the title can be decided which is remarkable considering how one sided it’s been in previous years. Will it make a difference to how Hamilton approaches the race? A dnf would almost certainly mean game over for him but he’s got years of experience behind him to be able to deal with the pressure. Will Max go all out to win the race and leave himself the luxury of not having to do anything spectacular in the final race? The fact that it’s a new track only adds to the intrigue.


dnf ... what's that then ? :confused:

[Jack]

dnf ... what's that then ? :confused:

Did not finish.

[PeeJay]

Did not finish.

oh ... thanks :wink:

[patch1875]

Looks a great track.

[lord bunberry]

Max blinks first, he was on course for pole position but couldn’t keep it within the lines. Game on for tomorrow.

[Stairway 2 7]

Max blinks first, he was on course for pole position but couldn’t keep it within the lines. Game on for tomorrow.

Was pushing the track to its limits all the way round, silly when he has the points advantage

[Northernhibee]

Was pushing the track to its limits all the way round, silly when he has the points advantage

Absolutely daft of him. He’s lightning fast but mentally not on the same level as Lewis etc.

[RyeSloan]

Was pushing the track to its limits all the way round, silly when he has the points advantage

Or he could have aced the lap and put himself quite literally in pole position for the title!

Was another gripping qualifying..sometimes they are reasonably dull but on a number of occasions this year they have been brilliant.

What a track that is! Jeopardy everywhere and I think we can bank on a safety car or ten tomorrow.

[lord bunberry]

Hamilton is raging that the race has been stopped. Red Bull have lucked out by not stopping.

[silverhibee]

Not much racing getting done here, 2nd red flag.

[lord bunberry]

All these safety cars are spoiling the race.

[Radium]

This race is bonkers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RyeSloan]

Max needs to have a word with himself…there is fighting hard and there is down right cheating.

Finally he got a penalty for his nonsense and Lewis showing calm and class once again.

[lord bunberry]

Max needs to have a word with himself…there is fighting hard and there is down right cheating.

Finally he got a penalty for his nonsense and Lewis showing calm and class once again.
Why did he drive into the back of Verstappen?

[olivebuzzer]

Max needs to have a word with himself…there is fighting hard and there is down right cheating.

Finally he got a penalty for his nonsense and Lewis showing calm and class once again.

Spot on

[RyeSloan]

Why did he drive into the back of Verstappen?

Well I sure Lewis didn’t deliberately drive into the back of him
And nearly wipe his front wing out.

He had no comms from his engineer to tell him Max would slow. There had been a zillion VSC and whatever else. The penalty for overtaking under yellows etc is harsh so there could be a hundred reasons…also Max moved as well so was trying to be cute how and where he was letting him past.

I think he was just confused as to what was going on really …no surprise really as that was a mental race!

[lord bunberry]

Well I sure Lewis didn’t deliberately drive into the back of him
And nearly wipe his front wing out.

He had no comms from his engineer to tell him Max would slow. There had been a zillion VSC and whatever else. The penalty for overtaking under yellows etc is harsh so there could be a hundred reasons…also Max moved as well so was trying to be cute how and where he was letting him past.

I think he was just confused as to what was going on really …no surprise really as that was a mental race!
It appears that’s what happened, Max was told to let Lewis past but Lewis hadn’t been told. I have to say I’m loving all this, the dirtier the better for me, it’s like the good old days of Senna and Prost or Hill and Schumacher.

[silverhibee]

Why did he drive into the back of Verstappen?

Max brings it down to 3rd gear and then accelerates away, Lewis doing the same but it looks like both wanting the gain of DRS about 200 yards further on, I would say Max was a bit naughty during this race and it backfired on him, and he could get a penalty for the next race.

For us the fans it was super exciting stuff and bring on next week.

[Lancs Harp]

Craziest race since Dick Dastardly konked out inches from the finishing line back in the seventies.

[Northernhibee]

That was absolutely bonkers.

I don't think it's a good look for F1 on top of racing in Saudi in the first place, but it gives us a great title decider.

[Radium]

It appears that’s what happened, Max was told to let Lewis past but Lewis hadn’t been told. I have to say I’m loving all this, the dirtier the better for me, it’s like the good old days of Senna and Prost or Hill and Schumacher.

… what’s the betting that Max takes Lewis out next weekend as happened with those drivers.


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[LunasBoots]

Max needs to have a word with himself…there is fighting hard and there is down right cheating.

Finally he got a penalty for his nonsense and Lewis showing calm and class once again.

Someone is going to get seriously injured one day unless Max changes his driving style, its been talked about for years but doesn't change, hes been let off with quite alot in recent years compared to other drivers down the years.

[Northernhibee]

I wonder what the odds are on both Hamilton and Max making turn two in Abu Dhabi.

[Northernhibee]

Additional ten second time penalty and two license points for Max for causing a collision.

[Ryan91]

… what’s the betting that Max takes Lewis out next weekend as happened with those drivers.


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Been watching this back and forth all season long, it's a really interesting watch, don't want to see either driver deliberately try to take the other out in order to win the championship, could the FIA threaten full Championship Disqualification for the guilty party? I understand that it's been done before, but do the current rules allow for the governing body to lay down such a decision?

Hopefully it's a good clean race next weekend and we don't see any shenanigans from either driver

Really interested in how the 2022 Championship is going to shape up with the new regulations

[Sergio sledge]

Max very often treads the line between hard racing and dangerous driving, and I think that this was the most obvious race where he overstepped the mark. The non penalty in Brazil set this up and max pulled the same move a few times this race where he just drove the other driver off the road despite being behind going into the corner. The only reason he got a penalty this time is because he went off the track and cut the next corner, not for driving the other driver off the track. The collision was a misunderstanding IHMO, Lewis clearly didn't know what was happening and Max was desperate not to be in front at the DRS line, so suddenly braked harder than he was doing. The standard practice when giving a place back is to slow gradually and move off the line a bit to let the other driver by, but Max was moving around quite a lot and then had a sudden deceleration to try to make sure Lewis passed him before the DRS line. It was right to give the penalty in this case and he's lucky that the damage wasn't worse than it was and they were both able to finish.

I think Red Bull might have turned their engine down once they got the 5 second penalty, knowing they weren't going to win to try to save a bit for the next race.

Provided they can both stay on the track it should be an exciting finale next week. Hopefully the track changes at Abu Dhabi make overtaking a bit easier this year.

[JeMeSouviens]

Max very often treads the line between hard racing and dangerous driving, and I think that this was the most obvious race where he overstepped the mark. The non penalty in Brazil set this up and max pulled the same move a few times this race where he just drove the other driver off the road despite being behind going into the corner. The only reason he got a penalty this time is because he went off the track and cut the next corner, not for driving the other driver off the track. The collision was a misunderstanding IHMO, Lewis clearly didn't know what was happening and Max was desperate not to be in front at the DRS line, so suddenly braked harder than he was doing. The standard practice when giving a place back is to slow gradually and move off the line a bit to let the other driver by, but Max was moving around quite a lot and then had a sudden deceleration to try to make sure Lewis passed him before the DRS line. It was right to give the penalty in this case and he's lucky that the damage wasn't worse than it was and they were both able to finish.

I think Red Bull might have turned their engine down once they got the 5 second penalty, knowing they weren't going to win to try to save a bit for the next race.

Provided they can both stay on the track it should be an exciting finale next week. Hopefully the track changes at Abu Dhabi make overtaking a bit easier this year.

Now there's a caveat and a half. Pretty scary for Hamilton knowing Verstappen will probably be prepared to risk a crash provided it takes them both out.

[McD]

Max very often treads the line between hard racing and dangerous driving, and I think that this was the most obvious race where he overstepped the mark. The non penalty in Brazil set this up and max pulled the same move a few times this race where he just drove the other driver off the road despite being behind going into the corner. The only reason he got a penalty this time is because he went off the track and cut the next corner, not for driving the other driver off the track. The collision was a misunderstanding IHMO, Lewis clearly didn't know what was happening and Max was desperate not to be in front at the DRS line, so suddenly braked harder than he was doing. The standard practice when giving a place back is to slow gradually and move off the line a bit to let the other driver by, but Max was moving around quite a lot and then had a sudden deceleration to try to make sure Lewis passed him before the DRS line. It was right to give the penalty in this case and he's lucky that the damage wasn't worse than it was and they were both able to finish.

I think Red Bull might have turned their engine down once they got the 5 second penalty, knowing they weren't going to win to try to save a bit for the next race.

Provided they can both stay on the track it should be an exciting finale next week. Hopefully the track changes at Abu Dhabi make overtaking a bit easier this year.


I’m a bit more cynical about the collision

As you said, when letting another driver through, generally the car in front slows and moves to one side of the track (sometimes making sure the passing driver has to go on the dirty side of the track). In this case, MV stayed very central, right up to the point of the collision. I think he did that to make sure that LH had to move around him more, thus compromising his entry into the corner ahead, in the hope that LH would not only not get a smooth entry and exit at the corner, but would also be ahead at the detection line.

I do think LH was unsure of what was happening and also aware of not wanting to be ahead at the detection line, and all of those things led to the collision.

I do think MV has been treated quite leniently on a few occasions this year, which has fuelled his desire to push the hard driving/dangerous driving line too far at times. I do think Horner’s comments of ‘2 drivers went off the track so how do you penalise just max’ was pretty pathetic, it’s quite clear that by MV going wide he was going to push the car outside of him off too, or collide.

That said, I think it was right that LH was given a verbal warning about doing something similar later, which I suspect was to try to lay down the law to both of them.

Hopefully this weeks race will just see some clean fair but tough racing, and not any nonsense. The FIA/Michael masi/stewards might be well advised to give both of them a private warning that any shenanagins could be dealt with by championship disqualification, lest we end up with a dangerous incident

[Northernhibee]

I’m a bit more cynical about the collision

As you said, when letting another driver through, generally the car in front slows and moves to one side of the track (sometimes making sure the passing driver has to go on the dirty side of the track). In this case, MV stayed very central, right up to the point of the collision. I think he did that to make sure that LH had to move around him more, thus compromising his entry into the corner ahead, in the hope that LH would not only not get a smooth entry and exit at the corner, but would also be ahead at the detection line.

I do think LH was unsure of what was happening and also aware of not wanting to be ahead at the detection line, and all of those things led to the collision.

I do think MV has been treated quite leniently on a few occasions this year, which has fuelled his desire to push the hard driving/dangerous driving line too far at times. I do think Horner’s comments of ‘2 drivers went off the track so how do you penalise just max’ was pretty pathetic, it’s quite clear that by MV going wide he was going to push the car outside of him off too, or collide.

That said, I think it was right that LH was given a verbal warning about doing something similar later, which I suspect was to try to lay down the law to both of them.

Hopefully this weeks race will just see some clean fair but tough racing, and not any nonsense. The FIA/Michael masi/stewards might be well advised to give both of them a private warning that any shenanagins could be dealt with by championship disqualification, lest we end up with a dangerous incident

I agree with you on that, much as we all feared about Mazepin's driving standards in F1 but he's not been anywhere as bad as Max this season. He's a danger and could have caused multiple collisions, almost all of them with Lewis and isn't learning lessons, if anything he appears emboldened with the lack of FIA action.

At a track like the one yesterday it could have ended very badly indeed.

[lord bunberry]

There’s no doubt in my mind that Max will do anything he can to win the championship, that includes taking Hamilton out if he has to. People are being very naive if they think that Hamilton or any other driver on the grid wouldn’t do the same thing. Hamilton wasn’t exactly a saint with his driving yesterday. I don’t think it will be anything as bad as Prost Senna at the first corner, something like that would lead to a penalty that would involve a points deduction or disqualification. If Max is ahead late in the race and Lewis cruise’s up behind him and goes for an overtake , Max will 100% try and run him off the road or take him out.

[RyeSloan]

There’s no doubt in my mind that Max will do anything he can to win the championship, that includes taking Hamilton out if he has to. People are being very naive if they think that Hamilton or any other driver on the grid wouldn’t do the same thing. Hamilton wasn’t exactly a saint with his driving yesterday. I don’t think it will be anything as bad as Prost Senna at the first corner, something like that would lead to a penalty that would involve a points deduction or disqualification. If Max is ahead late in the race and Lewis cruise’s up behind him and goes for an overtake , Max will 100% try and run him off the road or take him out.

The Senna / Prost thing is interesting as it’s often forgotten that Prost did it to him the year before…basically Senna was just getting him back and was far from happy after he had done so a sit went against his ethos. That said he still did it!

Schumacher obviously did the same thing at least twice and tried and failed another time. No hand wringing from him though at any point.

This time there is no doubt Max will do the same if it comes to it…yesterday was confirmation of that, if any was needed! Masi needs to have strong words before hand if that is to be avoided.

I’m pretty certain though that something is going to happen. Max and Lewis are so well matched for pace that it’s highly unlikely they won’t end up on the same piece of track at some point!

[PeeJay]

The Senna / Prost thing is interesting as it’s often forgotten that Prost did it to him the year before…basically Senna was just getting him back and was far from happy after he had done so a sit went against his ethos. That said he still did it!

Schumacher obviously did the same thing at least twice and tried and failed another time. No hand wringing from him though at any point.

This time there is no doubt Max will do the same if it comes to it…yesterday was confirmation of that, if any was needed! Masi needs to have strong words before hand if that is to be avoided.

I’m pretty certain though that something is going to happen. Max and Lewis are so well matched for pace that it’s highly unlikely they won’t end up on the same piece of track at some point!

Some fair points - if Max is reading this thread (?) he should consider that former F1 champion Michael Schumacher was disqualified completely from the 1997 competition after his "misdemeanour" with Villeneuve, i.e. trying to run him off the track by hitting him - Schumi was stripped of all points for the season as a whole.
Best to race fairly IMO ... hope Lewis wins myself ...

[RyeSloan]

Some fair points - if Max is reading this thread (?) he should consider that former F1 champion Michael Schumacher was disqualified completely from the 1997 competition after his "misdemeanour" with Villeneuve, i.e. trying to run him off the track by hitting him - Schumi was stripped of all points for the season as a whole.
Best to race fairly IMO ... hope Lewis wins myself ...

I started the season leaning towards Red Bull and Max for the title but as the season has wore on I’ve moved very firmly into the Lewis camp.

Max, to my mind, has been overly aggressive and at the weekend was just a downright cheat. It’s a shame as he’s a brilliant driver in a class of two with Lewis this season but his antics have turned me right off him and I rarely like to see cheats prosper.

[PeeJay]

I started the season leaning towards Red Bull and Max for the title but as the season has wore on I’ve moved very firmly into the Lewis camp.

Max, to my mind, has been overly aggressive and at the weekend was just a downright cheat. It’s a shame as he’s a brilliant driver in a class of two with Lewis this season but his antics have turned me right off him and I rarely like to see cheats prosper.

Not me, I wanted Lewis to break Schumi's record -
Red Bull and MV claimed that the telemetry data would prove that he hadn't braked just before Lewis ran into him, yet it seems (according to my German newspaper) that the data actually showed he had indeed ..."applied 69 bar of pressure to the brake pedal" and had braked pretty hard (as it seemed to me on the tv) - no need for that, especially as Hamilton had - at that moment - not yet received the news that MV would move over on the radio ...
It's been a great season and just hope we have a "fair" race on Sunday - and Lewis wins

[The_Exile]

Not me, I wanted Lewis to break Schumi's record -
Red Bull and MV claimed that the telemetry data would prove that he hadn't braked just before Lewis ran into him, yet it seems (according to my German newspaper) that the data actually showed he had indeed ..."applied 69 bar of pressure to the brake pedal" and had braked pretty hard (as it seemed to me on the tv) - no need for that, especially as Hamilton had - at that moment - not yet received the news that MV would move over on the radio ...
It's been a great season and just hope we have a "fair" race on Sunday - and Lewis wins

Max didn't know Lewis hadn't been told though. If I'm racing behind someone and I see them slow down my immediate thought is "he's got a problem, lets get past" so I've absolutely no idea what Lewis was doing fannying about behind him for so long as there was PLENTY room on the left hand side to get past and make the corner on the racing line.

Anyway, what makes this season so great is that lots of differing opinions of who's the best, who's at fault, why did this happen, how did that happen. It's been the best season I can ever remember and may the better driver win. Like everybody else, I want a nice clean weekend, but the exciting thing about it is that nobody knows what the hell will happen with these two! I love Lewis, but I also really love Max's driving style. Carbon copy of Schumacher, takes no prisoners, win at all costs and in this sport, I love that because it makes it great to watch. All in my humble opinion of course.

[Northernhibee]

Max didn't know Lewis hadn't been told though. If I'm racing behind someone and I see them slow down my immediate thought is "he's got a problem, lets get past" so I've absolutely no idea what Lewis was doing fannying about behind him for so long as there was PLENTY room on the left hand side to get past and make the corner on the racing line.

Anyway, what makes this season so great is that lots of differing opinions of who's the best, who's at fault, why did this happen, how did that happen. It's been the best season I can ever remember and may the better driver win. Like everybody else, I want a nice clean weekend, but the exciting thing about it is that nobody knows what the hell will happen with these two! I love Lewis, but I also really love Max's driving style. Carbon copy of Schumacher, takes no prisoners, win at all costs and in this sport, I love that because it makes it great to watch. All in my humble opinion of course.

Max appears to move into the centre of the track just before the collision. I'm not certain that there's a collision without that.

It's a black flag offence for me.

[McD]

Max appears to move into the centre of the track just before the collision. I'm not certain that there's a collision without that.

It's a black flag offence for me.


:agree:

I'm with you, Max lingered in the middle of the track rather than moving to one side or the other, and the telemetry showed the stewards he braked suddenly and heavily right before the collision, he was at it imo

[patch1875]

Max didn't know Lewis hadn't been told though. If I'm racing behind someone and I see them slow down my immediate thought is "he's got a problem, lets get past" so I've absolutely no idea what Lewis was doing fannying about behind him for so long as there was PLENTY room on the left hand side to get past and make the corner on the racing line.

Anyway, what makes this season so great is that lots of differing opinions of who's the best, who's at fault, why did this happen, how did that happen. It's been the best season I can ever remember and may the better driver win. Like everybody else, I want a nice clean weekend, but the exciting thing about it is that nobody knows what the hell will happen with these two! I love Lewis, but I also really love Max's driving style. Carbon copy of Schumacher, takes no prisoners, win at all costs and in this sport, I love that because it makes it great to watch. All in my humble opinion of course.


I agree lewis should have passed him on the left easily.

Roll on Sunday.

[Northernhibee]

I agree lewis should have passed him on the left easily.

Roll on Sunday.

Max applied 63 bars of pressure on the brakes at close to the same time Hamilton sped up to pass him. The telemetry shows it. You can also see Max take up the centre of the track.

I disagree with you, it was needlessly dangerous. If Lewis passes before the DRS line and Max just speeds right back ahead again afterwards then IMO he's still gained an advantage from his initial move.

[PeeJay]

Max didn't know Lewis hadn't been told though. If I'm racing behind someone and I see them slow down my immediate thought is "he's got a problem, lets get past" so I've absolutely no idea what Lewis was doing fannying about behind him for so long as there was PLENTY room on the left hand side to get past and make the corner on the racing line.

Anyway, what makes this season so great is that lots of differing opinions of who's the best, who's at fault, why did this happen, how did that happen. It's been the best season I can ever remember and may the better driver win. Like everybody else, I want a nice clean weekend, but the exciting thing about it is that nobody knows what the hell will happen with these two! I love Lewis, but I also really love Max's driving style. Carbon copy of Schumacher, takes no prisoners, win at all costs and in this sport, I love that because it makes it great to watch. All in my humble opinion of course.

Thinks it's actually a wee bit more complicated than "just passing him" - think there was an issue with the DRS sections, which meant if Lewis passed Max at one of these sectors, Max would then simply use the DRS slipstream effect to simply slip past him again almost straight away - and that's what he actually did too once he had let Lewis pass him ...

[lord bunberry]

Max applied 63 bars of pressure on the brakes at close to the same time Hamilton sped up to pass him. The telemetry shows it. You can also see Max take up the centre of the track.

I disagree with you, it was needlessly dangerous. If Lewis passes before the DRS line and Max just speeds right back ahead again afterwards then IMO he's still gained an advantage from his initial move.
You have a hatred of Verstappen that clouds your judgment on all of this, you says he’s in the wrong in every single instance, even when Hamilton is penalised. Of course Verstappen was breaking in the hope the Hamilton would pass before the drs line and has been penalised for it, but Hamilton was also breaking so that he didn’t pass before the drs line. If that was any other car in front, Hamilton would’ve breezed past, he was playing the game just like Verstappen.

[Northernhibee]

You have a hatred of Verstappen that clouds your judgment on all of this, you says he’s in the wrong in every single instance, even when Hamilton is penalised. Of course Verstappen was breaking in the hope the Hamilton would pass before the drs line and has been penalised for it, but Hamilton was also breaking so that he didn’t pass before the drs line. If that was any other car in front, Hamilton would’ve breezed past, he was playing the game just like Verstappen.

It's literally all in the stewards report. What an absolutely bizarre post.

[patch1875]

He could have been breaking down for all Lewis knew in that split second if he hadn’t had a radio call to say he was being allowed to pass, seems odd that he slowed down with him. He was in an obviously faster car and doubt max would have got passed him if ahead.

[lord bunberry]

It's literally all in the stewards report. What an absolutely bizarre post.
It is in the report but can you explain why Hamilton is slowing down as he approaches his main rival that he needs to pass to keep any realistic chance of the championship alive?

[lord bunberry]

He could have been breaking down for all Lewis knew in that split second if he hadn’t had a radio call to say he was being allowed to pass, seems odd that he slowed down with him. He was in an obviously faster car and doubt max would have got passed him if ahead.
:agree: If that had been Perez in front or any other car he’d have moved to the side and drive past, he slowed because he didn’t want Verstappen to get the drs. What Verstappen did was wrong, but Hamilton certainly isn’t blameless.

[Northernhibee]

:agree: If that had been Perez in front or any other car he’d have moved to the side and drive past, he slowed because he didn’t want Verstappen to get the drs. What Verstappen did was wrong, but Hamilton certainly isn’t blameless.

Considering that twice in that race Verstappen had pushed him wide and off track, you don't blame him for taking extreme caution when the same driver starts slowing down right in front of him

Edit: And in Brazil. And took him out of the race in Monza too.

[lord bunberry]

Considering that twice in that race Verstappen had pushed him wide and off track, you don't blame him for taking extreme caution when the same driver starts slowing down right in front of him

Edit: And in Brazil. And took him out of the race in Monza too.
You can’t seriously believe that’s why Hamilton was slowing down?

[Northernhibee]

You can’t seriously believe that’s why Hamilton was slowing down?

Yeah, Verstappen is on his level in pace but in terms of driving standards is on the level of Mazepin.

I’ve got several friends and family members who compete or have competed in SMRC level events, Isle of Man TT and more and not only do they think that Verstappen got off lightly, they did say that a drivers level of aggression will affect the manner in which you race wheel to wheel. Hamilton saw through Max trying to get DRS advantage but didn’t see him slamming on the brakes or moving to the middle of the track.

Max pushes the boundaries of what’s cheating and what’s not. I can only liken it to Neal and Plato in BTCC - drivers who hate each other and it ends up in a toxic fashion. This time it’s one racer way more culpable than the other.

[Jack]

Max pushes the boundaries of what’s cheating and what’s not.*

So just like every other aspect of F1 then?

[Northernhibee]

Max pushes the boundaries of what’s cheating and what’s not.*

So just like every other aspect of F1 then?

No,

[lord bunberry]

Yeah, Verstappen is on his level in pace but in terms of driving standards is on the level of Mazepin.

I’ve got several friends and family members who compete or have competed in SMRC level events, Isle of Man TT and more and not only do they think that Verstappen got off lightly, they did say that a drivers level of aggression will affect the manner in which you race wheel to wheel. Hamilton saw through Max trying to get DRS advantage but didn’t see him slamming on the brakes or moving to the middle of the track.

Max pushes the boundaries of what’s cheating and what’s not. I can only liken it to Neal and Plato in BTCC - drivers who hate each other and it ends up in a toxic fashion. This time it’s one racer way more culpable than the other.
I don’t see it that way at all. We have one young up and coming driver against a complete legend, the young guy is always going to be that bit more desperate and do questionable things, just like Hamilton did when he was young. If Hamilton was defending a lead he wouldn’t think twice about using any tactics he could, the season’s with him and Rosberg fighting it out showed that. He shunted Alex Albon of the track twice last season in a desperate attempt to recover from mistakes.

[Jack]

No,

It is really though.

If you're not pushing the boundaries you're never going to get anywhere when milliseconds are the difference between winners and losers.

If you're not prepared to push the boundaries you shouldn't be there. A bit like when a player is in an offside position not interfering with play as someone famous once said!

[Northernhibee]

It is really though.

If you're not pushing the boundaries you're never going to get anywhere when milliseconds are the difference between winners and losers.

If you're not prepared to push the boundaries you shouldn't be there. A bit like when a player is in an offside position not interfering with play as someone famous once said!

There's pushing the boundaries and going way beyond them, Max has been guilty of that on more than one occasion. By not punishing the move in Brazil it basically makes overtaking round the outside impossible and he tried that on more than one occasion in Saudi Arabia alone. His move which caused the collision was reckless and immediately retaking the lead after conceding it was stupid, Lewis got a 25 second penalty for that in Belgium 08.

A previous poster was right, I hate what he's doing to the sport and I wonder if it'll take a bad injury to a driver for the FIA to act.

[Northernhibee]

I don’t see it that way at all. We have one young up and coming driver against a complete legend, the young guy is always going to be that bit more desperate and do questionable things, just like Hamilton did when he was young. If Hamilton was defending a lead he wouldn’t think twice about using any tactics he could, the season’s with him and Rosberg fighting it out showed that. He shunted Alex Albon of the track twice last season in a desperate attempt to recover from mistakes.

Come on, that's a complete false equivalence. Lewis apologised to Alex for his mistake and was penalised by the FIA.

Max chooses to drive someone off the track on multiple occasions, shows no remorse, doesn't receive a penalty and on the occasions that the FIA have to act, it's a penalty that does not affect the race result.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.hamilton-says-albon-crash-completely-my-fault.245RL043CRlvS8fBy1rDnh.html

[Northernhibee]

Worth pointing out that if Max had any common sense in his head and let Hamilton have Copse at Silverstone, he'd likely be as good as champion by now.

[lord bunberry]

Come on, that's a complete false equivalence. Lewis apologised to Alex for his mistake and was penalised by the FIA.

Max chooses to drive someone off the track on multiple occasions, shows no remorse, doesn't receive a penalty and on the occasions that the FIA have to act, it's a penalty that does not affect the race result.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.hamilton-says-albon-crash-completely-my-fault.245RL043CRlvS8fBy1rDnh.html
It’s not a false equivalence. Hamilton might have got a penalty for the incidents, but he still committed the acts during the race, the same way Verstappen has done. The punishment is irrelevant, the point is both will do whatever it takes.

[Northernhibee]

It’s not a false equivalence. Hamilton might have got a penalty for the incidents, but he still committed the acts during the race, the same way Verstappen has done. The punishment is irrelevant, the point is both will do whatever it takes.

The intent was completely different though. On the three occasions mentioned Max doesn't appear to make any effort to make the apex or questionable if he tries to even make the corner, doesn't have enough steering lock and it means the other car can't stay on the road.

In both the Hamilton incidents Lewis and Albon tag but he's taken responsibility. I don't for a second believe that Lewis has gone to nerf Albon off the track.

[lord bunberry]

The intent was completely different though. On the three occasions mentioned Max doesn't appear to make any effort to make the apex or questionable if he tries to even make the corner, doesn't have enough steering lock and it means the other car can't stay on the road.

In both the Hamilton incidents Lewis and Albon tag but he's taken responsibility. I don't for a second believe that Lewis has gone to nerf Albon off the track.
I don’t think he has either, but he has on each occasion had no concerns for Albon. On one occasion Albon would almost certainly gone on to win the race, failing to do so has cost him his F1 seat. Intent is a questionable defence imo, did he intend to shunt Albon off the track? Probably not, did he care if his actions resulted in Albon being shunted off the track? I’d no, he did what he had to do. Verstappen running Hamilton off the track isn’t ending Hamilton’s race in the same way that Hamilton running Albon off did. The intent is always to win and always will be.

[RyeSloan]

I don’t think he has either, but he has on each occasion had no concerns for Albon. On one occasion Albon would almost certainly gone on to win the race, failing to do so has cost him his F1 seat. Intent is a questionable defence imo, did he intend to shunt Albon off the track? Probably not, did he care if his actions resulted in Albon being shunted off the track? I’d no, he did what he had to do. Verstappen running Hamilton off the track isn’t ending Hamilton’s race in the same way that Hamilton running Albon off did. The intent is always to win and always will be.

Of course the intent is to win and in F1 the line is very thin between ‘do whatever it takes’ and being down right dangerous.

No way would Lewis have cut back across the corner like Max did when he first ran wide…it happened to a few others in the race and they all stayed off the track until after the corner so they could rejoin safely.

Max cut right back into the track and rejoined in a dangerous manner. He clearly didn’t care as any shunt would have had him Champion. Lewis was too smart for him though.

I get every driver pushes the boundaries but Max has way overstepped them this season and in the last race in particular. Two time penalties and having to give a place back all in one race says it all.

[heretoday]

When does this race begin? I'm not a F1 expert but I might watch it.

[Willis1875]

Verstappen takes pole

[Willis1875]

When does this race begin? I'm not a F1 expert but I might watch it.

1pm tomorrow

[patch1875]

Great outcome for the start max on pole on the fastest tyre so should get a good start. Lewis on the Medium will be concerned about who’s around him first corner.

[Northernhibee]

I wonder if they’ve turned up Verstappen’s engine to the moon.

[Stairway 2 7]

Think it all comes down to how long verstappens tires last, he'll get a flying start but Hamilton will be faster at the end. How many stops they are planning will be interesting too

[Scouse Hibee]

Can’t believe that decision by the stewards.

[easty]

Can’t believe that decision by the stewards.

If it finishes like this, it’s going to kick off later.

Cannae believe that.

[lord bunberry]

Controversy in the first lap. I thought the stewards would have told Hamilton to give the place back.

[Jim44]

I’m not really interestied in F1 but they’ve hyped it up so much that I’m going to watch it. Maybe a daft question but how do pit stops affect the race. For example if Hamilton, say, is in the lead but has to go in for a tyre change, does he have to simply make up for lost ground by racing from where he re-enters the race or do other drivers give way to him to allow him to take up the position he held before going in to the pit?

[SteveHFC]

Can’t believe that decision by the stewards.

Shocking decision.

[Scouse Hibee]

I’m not really interestied in F1 but they’ve hyped it up so much that I’m going to watch it. Maybe a daft question but how do pit stops affect the race. For example if Hamilton, say, is in the lead but has to go in for a tyre change, does he have to simply make up for lost ground by racing from where he re-enters the race or do other drivers give way to him to allow him to take up the position he held before going in to the pit?

He has to race to try and regain his place, that’s why pit stops are all part of the tactics and chosen carefully unless otherwise necessary due to damage.

[lord bunberry]

I’m not really interestied in F1 but they’ve hyped it up so much that I’m going to watch it. Maybe a daft question but how do pit stops affect the race. For example if Hamilton, say, is in the lead but has to go in for a tyre change, does he have to simply make up for lost ground by racing from where he re-enters the race or do other drivers give way to him to allow him to take up the position he held before going in to the pit?
He has to make it up, but all the other cars have to stop as well. All cars have to use at least 2 different compounds of tyres in the race.

[Scouse Hibee]

Brilliant from Perez

[Radium]

Mercedes’ blowing the strategy with the missed pit stop under vsc?


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[lord bunberry]

Mercedes’ blowing the strategy with the missed pit stop under vsc?


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I think Hamilton will still have too much pace, but it’s a risky strategy. If he had stopped and Max stayed out, Hamilton would’ve breezed back past him on fresher tyres. It’s game on now though.

[Scouse Hibee]

Hamilton’s to lose now

[Radium]

I think Hamilton will still have too much pace, but it’s a risky strategy. If he had stopped and Max stayed out, Hamilton would’ve breezed back past him on fresher tyres. It’s game on now though.

Front left puncture in the next 7 laps…


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[lord bunberry]

Safety car. Will they get the race started again?

[Radium]

Safety car. Will they get the race started again?

Championship decided if it restarts or not

Either deserve it and the drama is fantastic


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[Scouse Hibee]

Come on Max

[Scouse Hibee]

Yaaaaaas

[SteveHFC]

Yasss :hyper :hyper

[JoeT]

Wow

[lord bunberry]

****in speechless. Get in there Max.

[JXM73]

****ing mental..political farce...

[patch1875]

This is a bit controversial

[JXM73]

Feel sorry for Hamilton in the end, as for toto and Mercedes, **** off bawbag...

[Stairway 2 7]

Fia decide the title, not what most wanted

[Sergio sledge]

What just happened?!! Lewis should have given the place back on the first lap, but what a decision at the end?!

[lord bunberry]

That is the best finish to a championship there’s ever been. It had absolutely everything.

[Radium]

Race control have screwed that up at the end


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[Moulin Yarns]

I predict a party across the road with my dutch neighbours!! :greengrin

[Jack]

Wow!

Lawyers are going have a field day!

[lord bunberry]

Fia decide the title, not what most wanted
I think it’s the right decision though. Lapped cars are always allowed to overtake the safety car, Mercedes will be raging, but they didn’t do themselves any favours in a race where they had the fastest car.

[JXM73]

I think it’s the right decision though. Lapped cars are always allowed to overtake the safety car, Mercedes will be raging, but they didn’t do themselves any favours in a race where they had the fastest car.

But not all! Mercedes' beef is with the fia not red bull so cant take it away...

[Jim44]

When the safety car came on, Verstappen was about 18secs behind Hamilton but when it left he was alongside him. How come?

[patch1875]

When the safety car came on, Verstappen was about 18secs behind Hamilton but when it left he was alongside him. How come?

They can bunch up under a safety car it’s a virtual that they have to maintain distance.

[JXM73]

When the safety car came on, Verstappen was about 18secs behind Hamilton but when it left he was alongside him. How come?

Under safety car you bunch up for a rolling re start, just the rules..and all lapped cars are allowed to unlap... that's why they should have all been together...

[Jack]

I think it’s the right decision though. Lapped cars are always allowed to overtake the safety car, Mercedes will be raging, but they didn’t do themselves any favours in a race where they had the fastest car.
Lapped cars thing is optional. I don't think only letting a few of the lapped cars through has ever happened before!

50 years of following F1 I've never seen the likes, I'm stunned.

[RyeSloan]

Lapped cars thing is optional. I don't think only letting a few of the lapped cars through has ever happened before!

50 years of following F1 I've never seen the likes, I'm stunned.

And with about 20 seconds notice after saying they were not gonna do that.

Lewis got shafted big time there!

[Stairway 2 7]

I think it’s the right decision though. Lapped cars are always allowed to overtake the safety car, Mercedes will be raging, but they didn’t do themselves any favours in a race where they had the fastest car.

Not only a few cars. Plus they said no overtake then changed it to overtake

[JXM73]

Watching toto losing it is always pleasing....

[patch1875]

Toto losing the rag is so funny 😂

Crazy stuff

[Scouse Hibee]

And with about 20 seconds notice after saying they were not gonna do that.

Lewis got shafted big time there!

As did Max at the start, Karma.

[Northernhibee]

After 25 years of watching F1 and barely missing a race, Im done with F1. Fake Netflix bull**** with no credibility.

[lord bunberry]

Not only a few cars. Plus they said no overtake then changed it to overtake
Yeah I’d forgotten about that. I think the stewards realised they had made a mess of it and did what they could to rectify it. They should’ve just allowed the lapped cars to overtake earlier like they normally do.

[JXM73]

After 25 years of watching F1 and barely missing a race, Im done with F1. Fake Netflix bull**** with no credibility.

Toto is that you? Bye then... best season ever

[lord bunberry]

Toto is that you? Bye then... best season ever
I agree it was enthralling from start to finish.

[Willis1875]

That was utterly exhilarating stuff

[Northernhibee]

Toto is that you? Bye then... best season ever

There’s literally no manner in where protocol was followed there. Drive to Survive has clearly become more important than a sporting contest.

On several occasions this season Max has gotten away with blue murder - appointed champion rather than winning it.

Fake American reality TV. What a sad sight.

[Radium]

… the real shame here is that race control have adapted the rules and it will not be a surprise to see Mercedes’ challenging the result.

Verstappen is a worthy champion and RB are a gutsy team who are exciting because they take risks.

There never has been nor will be a closer or more controversial season


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[Jim44]

Under safety car you bunch up for a rolling re start, just the rules..and all lapped cars are allowed to unlap... that's why they should have all been together...

So the crashed car effectively lost Hamilton the race? He couldn’t really have lost the race if the crash hadn’t happened. Effectively, Verstappen fluked it.

[lord bunberry]

There’s literally no manner in where protocol was followed there. Drive to Survive has clearly become more important than a sporting contest.

On several occasions this season Max has gotten away with blue murder - appointed champion rather than winning it.

Fake American reality TV. What a sad sight.
Nonsense. Hamilton got away with one again today. I’ve no idea why you have such a dislike of Verstappen, but you would be one of the only ones walking away after what will go down as the greatest season in history.

[lord bunberry]

So the crashed car effectively lost Hamilton the race? He couldn’t really have lost the race if the crash hadn’t happened. Effectively, Verstappen fluked it.
100% the crash cost Hamilton the race and the title. It’s one of those things that can happen, it’s really tough on Hamilton.

[SteveHFC]

Rosberg is loving this.

[Sergio sledge]

Not only a few cars. Plus they said no overtake then changed it to overtakeYeah, you either let none through or all through. If they'd had to let them all through then they wouldn't have had time to restart the race so Mercedes have been shafted.

Happy for Max though and the Dutch fans, they bring so much to F1. Added to the first lap incident where Lewis should have let Max by and it's been a pretty controversial race.

Fantastic excitement though, bring on next year and (hopefully) better cars for over taking.

[Hibee Mac]

FIA have manufactured a Hollywood ending to the race and decided the championship there.

Such a shame for an epic championship battle to end in such a manufactured and controversial way.

[lord bunberry]

… the real shame here is that race control have adapted the rules and it will not be a surprise to see Mercedes’ challenging the result.

Verstappen is a worthy champion and RB are a gutsy team who are exciting because they take risks.

There never has been nor will be a closer or more controversial season


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I’d love to hear the explanation of why they decided originally not to allow lapped cars to overtake. They said on tv that it was the only way to allow the race to be restarted, but that wasn’t the case, they could’ve easily allowed all the lapped cars to pass as they didn’t have to wait until until they had rejoined at the back of the grid. The cars that did unlap themselves were half a lap behind.

[yonder1875]

Rotten luck for Hamilton. Deserved that race victory and then in turn, the championship.

[Radium]

I’d love to hear the explanation of why they decided originally not to allow lapped cars to overtake. They said on tv that it was the only way to allow the race to be restarted, but that wasn’t the case, they could’ve easily allowed all the lapped cars to pass as they didn’t have to wait until until they had rejoined at the back of the grid. The cars that did unlap themselves were half a lap behind.

That’s why I think that race control have royally mucked this up. Massi has made decisions at the end which seem to be without precedent and handed the race and championship to Max.

Either let the cars through and you have no choice but to finish under the safety car because of time constraints or you let RB have the one lap Hail Mary behind cars that will get out of the way that they went for with the pit stop

… not sure that Charlie Whiting would have allowed the mess at the end to happen.

I’m a Hamilton fan who has no issues with Max winning the championship because he is a superb driver.


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[Northernhibee]

Mercedes launch two protests.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://mobile.twitter.com/PHortonF1/status/1470046661925912581

This is Article 48.12 - contentious issue is likely to circle around why only a few lapped cars (the ones between Hamilton & Verstappen) were given the signal to unlap themselves. #F1 #AbuDhabiGP

2 contentious points: - "any cars that have been lapped .. will be required to pass" - Not just a few of them - "the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap" - not the same lap

[Northernhibee]

Nonsense. Hamilton got away with one again today. I’ve no idea why you have such a dislike of Verstappen, but you would be one of the only ones walking away after what will go down as the greatest season in history.

Lewis has won seven titles, Max has been appointed one.

[lord bunberry]

That’s why I think that race control have royally mucked this up. Massi has made decisions at the end which seem to be without precedent and handed the race and championship to Max.

Either let the cars through and you have no choice but to finish under the safety car because of time constraints or you let RB have the one lap Hail Mary behind cars that will get out of the way that they went for with the pit stop

… not sure that Charlie Whiting would have allowed the mess at the end to happen.

I’m a Hamilton fan who has no issues with Max winning the championship because he is a superb driver.


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I think they could’ve let all the cars unlap themselves. It’s a really quick process and you don’t have to wait until they’ve rejoined the back of the grid. The time between the decision to not let the cars overtake and the decision to allow some to overtake was enough time for all the cars to unlap themselves. The stewards made a mess of it and then tried to fix their mistake. I think they got it right eventually but it was a mess.

[lord bunberry]

Lewis has won seven titles, Max has been appointed one.
You’re not taking this well at all.

[Hibee Mac]

What a shame, was always likely to happen but I really hoped that we wouldn't be talking over contentious issues after someone was crowned champion.

But the FIA have made a mess of it not for the first time this season either.

[RyeSloan]

https://mobile.twitter.com/PHortonF1/status/1470046661925912581

This is Article 48.12 - contentious issue is likely to circle around why only a few lapped cars (the ones between Hamilton & Verstappen) were given the signal to unlap themselves. #F1 #AbuDhabiGP

2 contentious points: - "any cars that have been lapped .. will be required to pass" - Not just a few of them - "the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap" - not the same lap

Yeah and that’s the rub.

I’ve never ever seen lapped cars unlapping themselves and the safety car coming in seconds later.

There was always going to be controversy and I agree that Charlie would not have put himself in the middle of this like Masi has done.

[The_Exile]

The right man won there. You cannot finish that race behind a safety car, you go racing at the end. End of.

As far as I'm aware, the race director has the ultimate say on what happens within and around the rules so Mercedes can protest all they want, the result won't change.

I love both these guys, I think they're likely 2 of the most skilled athletes to ever have walked the Earth so I don't have an agenda, but I much prefer Verstappens style. Lewis is an absolute hero though. The right man won.

[Radium]

I think they could’ve let all the cars unlap themselves. It’s a really quick process and you don’t have to wait until they’ve rejoined the back of the grid. The time between the decision to not let the cars overtake and the decision to allow some to overtake was enough time for all the cars to unlap themselves. The stewards made a mess of it and then tried to fix their mistake. I think they got it right eventually but it was a mess.

I think that the problem was that the restart should be the lap after which would have had the race finishing after the safety car.

It is a genuine shame and the criticism sits squarely with Race Control. RB and Max are racers and took what was in front of them.


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[Hibs90]

More rigged than boxing.

Re writing the rules on the last lap of the season with a championship in the balance knowing full well the person losing is on fresh tyres.

Absolute joke of a sport.

[RyeSloan]

The right man won there. You cannot finish that race behind a safety car, you go racing at the end. End of.

As far as I'm aware, the race director has the ultimate say on what happens within and around the rules so Mercedes can protest all they want, the result won't change.

I love both these guys, I think they're likely 2 of the most skilled athletes to ever have walked the Earth so I don't have an agenda, but I much prefer Verstappens style. Lewis is an absolute hero though. The right man won.

Races ending behind the safety car are reasonably common.

I get Masi wanted a flying lap but the rules are pretty clear and he broke them to make that happen…that can’t be right surely.

And yeah neither driver deserved to lose the Championship as they were both in different class but neither does Lewis deserve to lose because the Race Director broke the rules in a manner never seen before!

[Scouse Hibee]

Lewis has won seven titles, Max has been appointed one.

At least now you’ve decided not to watch it again you will have more time to run Hamilton’s fan club.

[Jack]

https://mobile.twitter.com/PHortonF1/status/1470046661925912581

This is Article 48.12 - contentious issue is likely to circle around why only a few lapped cars (the ones between Hamilton & Verstappen) were given the signal to unlap themselves. #F1 #AbuDhabiGP

2 contentious points: - "any cars that have been lapped .. will be required to pass" - Not just a few of them - "the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap" - not the same lap

I think there's also a rule which says the race director has the final say in how the rules are interpreted.

Whether we think he's right or wrong (again*) the result will stand.

* There's been numerous occasions this season where we've all been left scratching our heads.

[Gatecrasher]

More rigged than boxing.

Re writing the rules on the last lap of the season with a championship in the balance knowing full well the person losing is on fresh tyres.

Absolute joke of a sport.

Its been like this all season, some benefitting Max some benefitting Lewis. As bad as officiating in football is at times the refs never make it up as they go along like has been happening in F1. Yeah I get it drama is part of the sport but this a manfactured and gets in the way of the actual sport. I'ts not good enough.

Max is a worthy Champ and I can't see them changing it but I get why Merc are upset and kicking up a fuss.

[PeeJay]

Sorry to see Lewis losing the tltle in such clearly controversial circumstances after having such a commanding lead - F1 hasn't done itself any favours with this strange decision IMO. Good to see Lewis being a true sportsman and congratulating Max. Bring on next season then ....

[Northernhibee]

At least now you’ve decided not to watch it again you will have more time to run Hamilton’s fan club.

I’ll be back watching BTCC - fantastic racing

[Wilson]

Races ending behind the safety car are reasonably common.

I get Masi wanted a flying lap but the rules are pretty clear and he broke them to make that happen…that can’t be right surely.

And yeah neither driver deserved to lose the Championship as they were both in different class but neither does Lewis deserve to lose because the Race Director broke the rules in a manner never seen before!

This is the first race I've watched since the early 2000s and a procession ended under a safety car wouldn't have been a satisfying end. The race director didn't manufacture a crash that brought out the safety car but did allow for a racing finish. It didn't suit Hamilton because of their reluctance to pit but Max had to be there to take advantage.

Enjoyed the spectacle. Both drivers would be worthy champions with the season they've had.

[McD]

I think masi was desperate to avoid being in a position of being accused of influencing the outcome, and shat himself when the Latifi crash happened, and panicked, and ended up manifesting the one thing he was petrified of, being at the centre of a storm around the culmination of the driver’s title

seen someone online saying he should have red flagged it, which would have then provided a 5-10 lap straight shootout, gets the lapped cars out of the way, and means there’s no dubiety about rules being applied etc

have to say, I think masi has been very poor this whole season, and isn’t a patch on Charlie whiting as a race director

[Northernhibee]

I think the only thing they can do is take the race result from lap 57 as lap 58 didn’t follow racing regulations and as much as I think he’s dangerous, I’d truly feel for Max. Lewis too.

It’s hugely damaging to the sport, either way. I don’t know how they retain trust or credibility from that.

My beef isn’t with Max here as other than the incident at the start of the race he did nothing wrong, it’s with the sport in general. Nobody wins from this, irrelevant of how it pans out.

[Radium]

Objection around the overtake rightly rejected - in the context of the restart no overall advantage from what I saw.

This felt like Mercedes giving the FIA an easy way out with a 5 second time penalty and the restart not being examined.

This will end in the court of arbitration.

Picking up on a comment by Martin Brundell, I think that looking at the support available for michael massi needs to be a priority for next season. Race Control have created the mess but if he is being asked to manage safety whilst every team principal can call him out on air, that is not healthy


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[Northernhibee]

Objection around the overtake rightly rejected - in the context of the restart no overall advantage from what I saw.

This felt like Mercedes giving the FIA an easy way out with a 5 second time penalty and the restart not being examined.

This will end in the court of arbitration.

Picking up on a comment by Martin Brundell, I think that looking at the support available for michael massi needs to be a priority for next season. Race Control have created the mess but if he is being asked to manage safety whilst every team principal can call him out on air, that is not healthy


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I disagree, all he has to do is follow the rules.

[McD]

I disagree, all he has to do is follow the rules.


just remove the ability of the teams to directly contact him

in the event of an incident, he/his team simply publish publicly an email/communication as to what judgement was made and why

[lord bunberry]

I think the only thing they can do is take the race result from lap 57 as lap 58 didn’t follow racing regulations and as much as I think he’s dangerous, I’d truly feel for Max. Lewis too.

It’s hugely damaging to the sport, either way. I don’t know how they retain trust or credibility from that.

My beef isn’t with Max here as other than the incident at the start of the race he did nothing wrong, it’s with the sport in general. Nobody wins from this, irrelevant of how it pans out.
What did he do wrong in the incident at the start of the race? On your last point of course someone wins, a world champion is declared and will enter the history books.

[makaveli1875]

That was probably the most exciting end to a season I can remember. In the end the best man won, the sport needed a new champion and its good to see Honda putting out a championship winning engine again.

[JXM73]

Max is champion...for now lol

[Northernhibee]

What did he do wrong in the incident at the start of the race? On your last point of course someone wins, a world champion is declared and will enter the history books.

I think we’ll leave it there as there’s no talking sense with you.

[JXM73]

In future id like them to follow NASCAR in that they'll try finish race under green by adding 3 laps, green, white chequer they call it...

[lord bunberry]

I think we’ll leave it there as there’s no talking sense with you.
So anyone who disagrees with you isn’t talking sense. :rolleyes: You are incredibly childish, throwing your toys out the pram when the result didn’t go the way you wanted it to. Enjoy the touring cars next season.

[Radium]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211212/5948cfb5898e79cf7dd1e1edd13fb22e.png

From the stewards determination.

Masi changed how the restart was done and as mentioned above now has the ignominy that he tried to avoid.

Neither team or driver has done anything wrong but Masi and his team have opened the sport to ridicule. Not because Max won, but by making last second changes to the restart that he did, he made that the only likely outcome.

I must admit that I feel a bit cheated but not by RB, Max or any of the drivers but by a sense that it was just too stage managed. Will Liberty be able to squeeze a bit more money out of sponsors for the revenge title series next year?


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[Willis1875]

What did he do wrong in the incident at the start of the race? On your last point of course someone wins, a world champion is declared and will enter the history books.

Wondered the same thing regarding the incident at the start,struggling to see what MV done wrong

[Radium]

Mercedes have submitted their intention to appeal.


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[Hibs Class]

Mercedes have submitted their intention to appeal.


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Mercedes have gone from undignified to desperate, practically a laughing stock.

[RyeSloan]

Mercedes have gone from undignified to desperate, practically a laughing stock.

Hardly.

The Stewards themselves has stated that the rules were ‘not applied fully’…it’s the ‘well what do you do about that’? question that they then answer as being not to revert to the lap before positions.

Merc have been done over by Masi not applying the rules correctly…that much is clear.

Quite what should be done about that is not clear and therefore the Stewards have decided that shortening the race to discount Masi’s blunder was not appropriate but I’m sure Merc will be asking the question again!

Masi has to go after this disaster and the other rather questionable decisions this season (the Spa debacle being another one where he seemed all to happy to have a whole race behind a safety car!)

[Hibee Mac]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211212/5948cfb5898e79cf7dd1e1edd13fb22e.png

From the stewards determination.

Masi changed how the restart was done and as mentioned above now has the ignominy that he tried to avoid.

Neither team or driver has done anything wrong but Masi and his team have opened the sport to ridicule. Not because Max won, but by making last second changes to the restart that he did, he made that the only likely outcome.

I must admit that I feel a bit cheated but not by RB, Max or any of the drivers but by a sense that it was just too stage managed. Will Liberty be able to squeeze a bit more money out of sponsors for the revenge title series next year?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkBang on the money there mate.

[Radium]

Mercedes have gone from undignified to desperate, practically a laughing stock.

The Race Director manipulated the rules to an unprecedented degree to generate a last race sprint.

He had at least two options to avoid this situation: red flag the race or don’t let any cars pass. He did neither and blew it.

If it was the other way around RB would be doing the same and I wouldn’t blame them.

I agree that it is totally undignified but the application of the two rule books have always courted challenge from all teams


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[Jack]

In future id like them to follow NASCAR in that they'll try finish race under green by adding 3 laps, green, white chequer they call it...

They'd all run out of fuel!

I know you'll come back and say they should put more fuel in but they're restricted in the amount of fuel they are allowed and already some cars, like Ferrari, struggle to make it to the end of some races.

[Hibs Class]

Hardly.

The Stewards themselves has stated that the rules were ‘not applied fully’…it’s the ‘well what do you do about that’? question that they then answer as being not to revert to the lap before positions.

Merc have been done over by Masi not applying the rules correctly…that much is clear.

Quite what should be done about that is not clear and therefore the Stewards have decided that shortening the race to discount Masi’s blunder was not appropriate but I’m sure Merc will be asking the question again!

Masi has to go after this disaster and the other rather questionable decisions this season (the Spa debacle being another one where he seemed all to happy to have a whole race behind a safety car!)

The stewards explained that Article 48.13 overrides the possibility that the earlier rule MAY have not been applied fully. My reading is that because of that override the need to rule on 48.12 became moot, so I disagree with your first point.

[JXM73]

They'd all run out of fuel!

I know you'll come back and say they should put more fuel in but they're restricted in the amount of fuel they are allowed and already some cars, like Ferrari, struggle to make it to the end of some races.

forgot they run the cars almost empty..but again is that not the risk you have to take, will tyres last longer etc. Something has to be better than making it up as you go?

[Radium]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211212/09a46766eb25965bd3d8d765da4683e3.png

Hadn’t considered this. He did seem to be delighted to be on the podium and is probably happy not to be part of the mess


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[Helensburghhibs]

They'd all run out of fuel!

I know you'll come back and say they should put more fuel in but they're restricted in the amount of fuel they are allowed and already some cars, like Ferrari, struggle to make it to the end of some races.

Bring back refuling

[JoeT]

Embarrassing. Just like being in Glasgow when the Race Director/referee has the final say in how the rules are interpreted. Porto being sent off for sneezing in the box and giving away penalties for smiling at people

[LeithMike]

Not really a fan of Formula 1 now (it always seems to be more about technology and strategy more than driving ability) or Lewis Hamilton. I can understand wanting to give the race director discretion but there was no fair way of him exercising this given the different strategies adopted by the drivers. Accordingly, you need hard and fast rules so the teams know what will happen.

It also doesn't seem sporting to be able to nip in for new tyres when your opponent can't do it because the race might not even continue. It definitely wasn't a level playing field which is what apart should be about - but I guess Formula 1 is anything but a level playing field.

Have to say I admire Lewis H a lot more for the way he handled everything.

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[RyeSloan]

The stewards explained that Article 48.13 overrides the possibility that the earlier rule MAY have not been applied fully. My reading is that because of that override the need to rule on 48.12 became moot, so I disagree with your first point.

It wasn’t applied fully…anybody can see that. It’s crystal clear on the fact that the safety car needed to do another lap.

They decided that the Race Director has control of the safety car..that is also true.

But surely he needs to exercise that control within the rules?

Suppose this season was always going to end in controversy!

[RyeSloan]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211212/09a46766eb25965bd3d8d765da4683e3.png

Hadn’t considered this. He did seem to be delighted to be on the podium and is probably happy not to be part of the mess


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Yeah don’t think he will be too bothered but it does show that the decision was a poor one in that it only benefited one driver!

[Radium]

Mercedes have withdrawn their appeal with the FIA announcing a full review of the last 5 laps of the race.

This from the FIA

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211216/afa69e14092641eb3209e008379fba9e.png

Probably as dignified a solution as could have been achieved


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[Northernhibee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59691827


Verstappen said: "I can understand the first few days after a race like that you're not happy.


"But you should also understand this is racing and these things can happen."


"I don't feel sorry [for him] but I can understand that it can be very painful but at the end of the day," he said. "He also won a championship like that."

Max Verstappen doesn't do emotional intelligence or reading a room. Gone to feeling sorry for him as to how this has gone down to completely not.

[Jack]

Lewis Hamilton: Mercedes driver to decide on F1 future after Abu Dhabi inquiry

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59951382

[patch1875]

Would be very surprised if he walked away.

[lord bunberry]

Would be very surprised if he walked away.
He won’t, he’s trying to pressure the inquiry into finding that he was cheated out of the world championship. Like all F1 drivers he needs excuses for things not going his way. The verdict won’t change anything, it will be designed to keep everyone happy.

[Radium]

If I am honest, Hamilton back or not isn’t the real issue.

The FIA screwed up by making it all about the drama. An unsupported race director was exposed for entertainment value to the rants of Team Principals so that they could broadcast a 15 second soundbite. It led to a loss of clarity around rules and penalties and ultimately led to at best a novel use of the rule book in the last race.

What needs to come out is a whole lot of clarity around restarts, track limits, stewarding and running other drivers off the track. I stand by my opinion that Masi got it wrong but his paymasters hung him out there.

As a Hamilton fan I would like to see him race again but if he doesn’t there are plenty of other drivers that will make it worth watching.


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[Northernhibee]

I wonder who Mercedes would go for driver wise if Hamilton does walk away. Could see them offering bundles of cash to buy out Pierre Gasly's contract.