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View Full Version : Question size of squad too small perhaps ?



familyman
27-07-2019, 04:57 PM
any thoughts on size of squad..or rather what size it should be?
Time and again we get hit by injuries and such as it is that needs to be factored in to squad size.Heck says he has all the players for now, yet here we are before a LEAgue ball is kicked concerned over Boyle.Martin is such an asset as indeed are wingers, we went well off the BOIL without Boyle last season and our options became far less.......Heck says he wants 2 for each position, perhaps in some cases 2 is not enough?
What do you guys think on numbers?
I do not have a definitive number and do not want us to overspend but we need to accept normal in this game is often a ridiculous amount of injuries.why then have so many games I wonder about how that reflects on squad size if indeed it is taken into account?
If someone has a list of squad sizes for Premier clubs that would be a good start for discussion.
Come on Hibees!



:flag:

Eyrie
27-07-2019, 05:37 PM
Dempster said that the target was two players for each position and a youngster for depth which makes sense to me.

Don't want to rely on a youth who may not be ready and we can't afford to pay good money to a third choice who is sitting in the stands most weeks.

04Sauzee
27-07-2019, 05:47 PM
Can't make up my mind, sometimes I think it's a bit light especially if Gray, Stevenson, Porteous and Slivka are a bit away from playing. Heckingbottom has also said there has to be a clear pathway for the youngsters to progress and we can't just sign players that will stifle their progression.

I think if we can keep Heckingbottom for a period of time we will see our development squad improve, maybe by signing some of the best youngsters from other teams or by just giving the young guys the best chance possible through our facilities.

I think we may still see at least one out and I'd hope we might see a couple in.

So after saying all that I really don't have a clue 😂

truehibernian
27-07-2019, 05:49 PM
For top 3 or 4 we need another 3 players for me - striker, winger and another defensive midfielder. Boyle possibly injured and away with Australia is a blow - it was our Achilles heel last two seasons not having enough strikers / available attackers - underlined by having the most draws both seasons in the top 6 despite our stats most probably showing we had more shots, corners, set pieces.

Like the look of Vela and Horgan is really impressing as each game goes by. Looks hungry and allowed to express himself more under PH. Great to see Flo scoring again too.

Sir David Gray
27-07-2019, 05:54 PM
We need another striker in my opinion.

truehibernian
27-07-2019, 05:55 PM
We need another striker in my opinion.

Would you take Cummings ? No info, just feel that if he's free and wanting to get his appetite back then much like Scott Allan, Hibs are the club for him to get back on track.

ahibby
27-07-2019, 06:18 PM
Would you take Cummings ? No info, just feel that if he's free and wanting to get his appetite back then much like Scott Allan, Hibs are the club for him to get back on track.

Not for mw. He wasnt cutting it just before he left us and didnt anywhere else. We did right to let him go without a fight first time.

truehibernian
27-07-2019, 06:25 PM
Not for mw. He wasnt cutting it just before he left us and didnt anywhere else. We did right to let him go without a fight first time.

I'd take a chance on him to be honest. Gives Hearts the fear too :agree::aok:

underscore
27-07-2019, 06:27 PM
One out one in. We are in a good position. The so called young players are old enough to be played at least 10 games now.

04Sauzee
27-07-2019, 06:31 PM
One out one in. We are in a good position. The so called young players are old enough to be played at least 10 games now.

I get where you are coming from but would it not concern you slightly if and I mean if Boyle could be put for a while and say Horgan got an Injury we would be a bit light? I know it's all ifs but I'd be happier with another CM and wide player

J-C
27-07-2019, 06:32 PM
We have 2 keepers, 9 defenders, 8 midfielders and 3 strikers in the 1st team squad, add in Sterling and Campbell and that gives us 24 players in the squad, I'd say that was enough.

truehibernian
27-07-2019, 06:39 PM
We have 2 keepers, 9 defenders, 8 midfielders and 3 strikers in the 1st team squad, add in Sterling and Campbell and that gives us 24 players in the squad, I'd say that was enough.

Not enough for a full season challenging on three fronts. Unless PH sees Gullan stepping up as 4th striker we need another signed.

B.H.F.C
27-07-2019, 07:00 PM
Not enough for a full season challenging on three fronts. Unless PH sees Gullan stepping up as 4th striker we need another signed.

Disagree that three strikers isnít enough if you want to challenge. Itís about quality.

How many teams carry more than that these days? Celtic only had one for much of last season. Man City have two.

Key is to spread goals around the team. We should be able to do that with the other attacking options we have.

Tug Wilson
27-07-2019, 07:22 PM
Disagree that three strikers isnít enough if you want to challenge. Itís about quality.

How many teams carry more than that these days? Celtic only had one for much of last season. Man City have two.

Key is to spread goals around the team. We should be able to do that with the other attacking options we have.

There are a lot of goals in our midfield now. Mallan, Allan, Newell, Murray, Horgan all have goals in them. Doesn't always need to be the striker that scores. Indeed Doidge is in there as much for his ability to hold the ball up and play players in as much as his scoring ability.

truehibernian
27-07-2019, 07:25 PM
Disagree that three strikers isnít enough if you want to challenge. Itís about quality.

How many teams carry more than that these days? Celtic only had one for much of last season. Man City have two.

Key is to spread goals around the team. We should be able to do that with the other attacking options we have.

Like I said, draws killed us last two seasons despite having lots of possession and set pieces. It's an area of the pitch where we need to convert - having another option would be ideal. We've given a trial to Moon, and also a winger from Bristol City - which tells me we are looking to add.

B.H.F.C
27-07-2019, 07:42 PM
Like I said, draws killed us last two seasons despite having lots of possession and set pieces. It's an area of the pitch where we need to convert - having another option would be ideal. We've given a trial to Moon, and also a winger from Bristol City - which tells me we are looking to add.

I donít disagree with that. But you were talking about another striker in the first instance.

If Boyle is injured then we undoubtedly need another wide player. If heís ok I donít think itís desperate.

007
27-07-2019, 10:33 PM
7 players in and 12 out but when you consider how much game time Bigirimana, Mavrias, Nelom, Laidlaw and Spector had we are better off using those 5 salaries towards better players, which I'd guess is Heckingbottom's thinking.

Purple & Green
28-07-2019, 10:31 AM
Dempster said that the target was two players for each position and a youngster for depth which makes sense to me.

Don't want to rely on a youth who may not be ready and we can't afford to pay good money to a third choice who is sitting in the stands most weeks.

Very well organized coherent strategy - 20 outfield players, 3 goalkeepers, and a development team. Should be more than enough for a season, whatever the permutations you can only play 11 players at a time, so, everyone else isnít playing albeit, they are now non competitive development games.

Whether you think the quality is enough is another matter and balance is up for debate.

Looking at other leagues, the squad cap in England is 25 with unlimited under 21s, Norway only allows 35 players to be used in total, and France used to be 20 over 20s. I think we have it right - and we got our recruitment done early for first time since 2015 - and we know how that season panned out.

Ronniekirk
28-07-2019, 01:06 PM
If Boyle and Porto are not going to be fit and in first team for another few months and with Stevenson still injured as well and Gray not playing you could argue we are short and another injury to a key player would compound this



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jacomo
28-07-2019, 04:10 PM
If Boyle and Porto are not going to be fit and in first team for another few months and with Stevenson still injured as well and Gray not playing you could argue we are short and another injury to a key player would compound this



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Defence looks sorted to me.

Think we need another CM and another winger or striker though.

Steve20
29-07-2019, 07:24 AM
If we want to compete for both cups and a top 3-4 finish, then going into a season with just Doidge, Kamberi and Shaw as striker options just isn't good enough. We need another striker to come in that will challenge to start.

Also a winger if Boyle is out for long.

number9dream
29-07-2019, 07:47 AM
We could do with another speedy right wing option even if Boyleís injury is not serious. Horganís best performances have been on the left.
Of course, if thereís the possibility of getting someone in who is a significant upgrade, in any position, we should be open to it but we canít spend what we donít have...

WeeRussell
29-07-2019, 11:41 AM
Not for mw. He wasnt cutting it just before he left us and didnt anywhere else. We did right to let him go without a fight first time.

Didn't he score in over 50% of the games he played for the first time, in his last season with us?

I certainly wouldn't say he "wasn't cutting it" at anytime for us.

It'll be a split opinion but I for one would definitely have him back right now.

04Sauzee
29-07-2019, 11:53 AM
Didn't he score in over 50% of the games he played for the first time, in his last season with us?

I certainly wouldn't say he "wasn't cutting it" at anytime for us.

It'll be a split opinion but I for one would definitely have him back right now.

Im with you in the fact that at no point did he not cut it at Hibs. His form since he left has been worrying however

MWHIBBIES
29-07-2019, 12:19 PM
Not for mw. He wasnt cutting it just before he left us and didnt anywhere else. We did right to let him go without a fight first time.

Cummings got 13 goals in his last 20 Hibs games.

WeeRussell
29-07-2019, 12:20 PM
Im with you in the fact that at no point did he not cut it at Hibs. His form since he left has been worrying however

Yep - which is where I think some will be reluctant. I can't think that many would have reservations based on his time at Hibs. :aok:

(someone mentioned Scott Allan before - good comparison in terms of form at us versus elsewhere)

Loyal Hibs
29-07-2019, 12:26 PM
Strikers

Kamberi,Doidge and shaw

We could possibly do with another striker. However we can assess in January if the right deal isn't there. We have invested a lot of cash in Doidge lets get right behind the big man.

Wingers

Newell, Horgan, Boyle, Murray

Again that's pretty strong and Horgan can play on the right to cover boyle if he is out

Centre Midfield

Allan, Mallan, Vela, Slivka, Campbell

This is where we are really lacking options (IMO)

Cover for Vela is a must. Tough tackling ball retaining CDM's are likely to get niggles. I don't think its fair to put an ageing Whittaker in there when the inevitable happens.

Full Backs

Lewis, James, Whittaker, Gray, Mackie

more than adequate - arguably the best set of full backs outside the old firm.


Centre Half

Hanlon, Big Daz, Porto and Jackson

Absolutely solid. The best young prospect in the country in young porto (IMO)

Keepers

Rocky and Maxwell

No issues there

J-C
29-07-2019, 01:03 PM
Strikers

Kamberi,Doidge and shaw

We could possibly do with another striker. However we can assess in January if the right deal isn't there. We have invested a lot of cash in Doidge lets get right behind the big man.

Wingers

Newell, Horgan, Boyle, Murray

Again that's pretty strong and Horgan can play on the right to cover boyle if he is out

Centre Midfield

Allan, Mallan, Vela, Slivka, Campbell

This is where we are really lacking options (IMO)

Cover for Vela is a must. Tough tackling ball retaining CDM's are likely to get niggles. I don't think its fair to put an ageing Whittaker in there when the inevitable happens.

Full Backs

Lewis, James, Whittaker, Gray, Mackie

more than adequate - arguably the best set of full backs outside the old firm.


Centre Half

Hanlon, Big Daz, Porto and Jackson

Absolutely solid. The best young prospect in the country in young porto (IMO)

Keepers

Rocky and Maxwell

No issues there

Murray is not a winger, why do people insist on trying to put him there, yes he can play wide but he is an attacking midfielder.

Loyal Hibs
29-07-2019, 01:33 PM
Murray is not a winger, why do people insist on trying to put him there, yes he can play wide but he is an attacking midfielder.

your not the first person to say that. I must be mistaken - I thought the laddie was a winger.

Wont be surprised if he ends up there. All the makings of a good one.

04Sauzee
29-07-2019, 03:32 PM
Murray is not a winger, why do people insist on trying to put him there, yes he can play wide but he is an attacking midfielder.

The same reason they class Newall as a winger 😕

J-C
29-07-2019, 03:48 PM
your not the first person to say that. I must be mistaken - I thought the laddie was a winger.

Wont be surprised if he ends up there. All the makings of a good one.

He's an attacking central midfielder, he's also talented enough he can play on either flank but lets try and keep him where he plays best, the ball through to Doidge the other night is what he can give you playing centrally. The laddie had a bad start last season due to injuries which held him back, otherwise he'd have been pushing for a starting spot this year, he's very highly thought of be Craig and the coaches, he's also been chosen with Porteous that linked up with Andy Murray's management.

WeeRussell
29-07-2019, 03:52 PM
He's an attacking central midfielder, he's also talented enough he can play on either flank but lets try and keep him where he plays best, the ball through to Doidge the other night is what he can give you playing centrally. The laddie had a bad start last season due to injuries which held him back, otherwise he'd have been pushing for a starting spot this year, he's very highly thought of be Craig and the coaches, he's also been chosen with Porteous that linked up with Andy Murray's management.

Not Friday night? I was waiting to see him play after a lot of positive comments this summer, but sure he never got on.

Tarrahib
29-07-2019, 04:06 PM
Not Friday night? I was waiting to see him play after a lot of positive comments this summer, but sure he never got on.
As Hecky says all the players would get equal game time as best he could do.I have seen Fraser Murray on numerous occasions I have no problems with with his progression to the Hibs first team.

Fergus52
29-07-2019, 04:08 PM
Murray is not a winger, why do people insist on trying to put him there, yes he can play wide but he is an attacking midfielder.

He's gonna struggle to displace either Allan or Mallan in the team as an advanced central midfielder. That might be his best position, but his best chance of getting minutes right now is as cover out wide.

Tarrahib
29-07-2019, 04:28 PM
He's gonna struggle to displace either Allan or Mallan in the team as an advanced central midfielder. That might be his best position, but his best chance of getting minutes right now is as cover out wide.
I think by the end of the season you will see Fraser Murray ,Josh Campbell Innes Murray,Ryan Porteous And Sean Mackie really be part of the Hibs team.

J-C
29-07-2019, 06:44 PM
Not Friday night? I was waiting to see him play after a lot of positive comments this summer, but sure he never got on.


It was the Alloa game on the 20th.

J-C
29-07-2019, 06:47 PM
He's gonna struggle to displace either Allan or Mallan in the team as an advanced central midfielder. That might be his best position, but his best chance of getting minutes right now is as cover out wide.


Don't think he's ready to displace them but it's a long season and he'll get plenty game time coming on as a sub and when any injuries kick in, if things go well we'll be competing on three fronts this season with hopefully 2 good cup runs.

04Sauzee
29-07-2019, 06:49 PM
I think by the end of the season you will see Fraser Murray ,Josh Campbell Innes Murray,Ryan Porteous And Sean Mackie really be part of the Hibs team.

What Kind of player is Innes Murray, unfortunately I don't get to the development games

WeeRussell
30-07-2019, 11:26 AM
As Hecky says all the players would get equal game time as best he could do.I have seen Fraser Murray on numerous occasions I have no problems with with his progression to the Hibs first team.

I don't have a problem with his progression or Hecky giving equal game time. I was simply asking JC to clarify (which he since has :aok:) what game he was referring to as I didn't think I'd seen him on Friday night.

Loyal Hibs
30-07-2019, 07:10 PM
Murray is not a winger, why do people insist on trying to put him there, yes he can play wide but he is an attacking midfielder.


Hecky seems to think he is, or has the makings of a good one!

:aok:
Glad he agrees even if a fair few on here dont..... :cb

J-C
30-07-2019, 08:53 PM
Hecky seems to think he is, or has the makings of a good one!

:aok:
Glad he agrees even if a fair few on here dont..... :cb

Played wide right 1st half and was average, moved to central midfield and was one of our best players, says it all. With Boyle now out his versatility will be handy.

Hi Heid Yin
30-07-2019, 09:29 PM
2 equally competent players for every position. Each player making that position his own.

Where it falls down is when so-called versatile players are wedged into different slots from game to game, upsetting the balance and impacting momentum.