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Hibby Bairn
27-07-2019, 04:34 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ouravfc/status/1155142333760987136?s=21

Sorry. Can’t seem to get it to be clickable so you’ll need to copy and paste.

Clarence
27-07-2019, 04:39 PM
Some player.

weecounty hibby
27-07-2019, 04:39 PM
I still miss him so much. 😞 Love the guy, terrific player and person. Celtic🤣 not worth £3m🤣🤣 squad player🤣🤣🤣

calumhibee1
27-07-2019, 04:51 PM
He’ll tear up the Premiership this season.

Turnbullsmate
27-07-2019, 05:04 PM
We wuz robbed..............right royally shafted when you see bang average no name players down south going for sums in excess of £10 mill' . Sooner he is sold on the better for us.

eezyrider
27-07-2019, 05:07 PM
What a goal.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ouravfc/status/1155142333760987136?s=21

EZ

Since452
27-07-2019, 05:12 PM
He will make our club a fortune

iwasthere1972
27-07-2019, 05:18 PM
A great guy who handled himself so well during all the transfer talk and decided not to take the easy option and go to Celtic. Superb goal against Sheffield Wednesday (?) last season and not at all surprised that he's turning out to be a top player down south. Wish him all the success. Top bloke.

NORTHERNHIBBY
27-07-2019, 05:22 PM
Sometimes hard to remember that he was out player . One thing that really sticks out for my is that you can't replace that sort of talent. You can bring other players in, but setting out to look for a direct replacement is setting out to fail.

hibsbollah
27-07-2019, 05:32 PM
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs-reject-third-celtic-bid-for-john-mcginn-1-4772587

This article warms my heart. 12 months ago, almost to the day. He's still a Hibs player. Celtic have come in for a 3rd time with a bid of 2million after having two earlier bids of 1.5million and 1.75million flatly rejected. Lawwell is trying to play hardball publicly, saying they know what he's worth etc. But then he goes to Villa with a nice sell on fee written into the contract, for less than we quoted Celtic we wanted for him :faf: (the best bit IMO), and fast forward a year he's one of the hottest properties in football, won Villa promotion, is the fans hero, scored some unbelievable goals and a 50 million Man Utd bid is rumoured.

We won.

CapitalGreen
27-07-2019, 05:50 PM
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs-reject-third-celtic-bid-for-john-mcginn-1-4772587

This article warms my heart. 12 months ago, almost to the day. He's still a Hibs player. Celtic have come in for a 3rd time with a bid of 2million after having two earlier bids of 1.5million and 1.75million flatly rejected. Lawwell is trying to play hardball publicly, saying they know what he's worth etc. But then he goes to Villa with a nice sell on fee written into the contract, for less than we quoted Celtic we wanted for him :faf: (the best bit IMO), and fast forward a year he's one of the hottest properties in football, won Villa promotion, is the fans hero, scored some unbelievable goals and a 50 million Man Utd bid is rumoured.

We won.

There was some on here who felt we should have accepted Celtic’s offer as he as they were the only team bidding at that point and he was “only worth what someone was willing to offer” apparently.

StirlingHibee
27-07-2019, 05:50 PM
Simply sensational goal - "Messi-esque". Villa have spent millions on two new midfielders but they will struggle to get McGinn's place!!

green day
27-07-2019, 06:07 PM
We wuz robbed..............right royally shafted when you see bang average no name players down south going for sums in excess of £10 mill' . Sooner he is sold on the better for us.

Its the market we operate in, he was hardly going to move to Man Utd for £20m from Hibs

I and most others I have spoken to are relaxed about it. We apparently have an excellent sell on clause and I see him moving to a very large club for big money.

Its a win all round really, including St Mirren who rightly get money for developing him.

Turnbullsmate
27-07-2019, 06:26 PM
Its the market we operate in, he was hardly going to move to Man Utd for £20m from Hibs

I and most others I have spoken to are relaxed about it. We apparently have an excellent sell on clause and I see him moving to a very large club for big money.

Its a win all round really, including St Mirren who rightly get money for developing him.

Point taken but a 100 carat diamond is a 100 carat diamond no matter the market you operate in.

i do not claim to be ITK as regards the sell on clause but in assuming there is one in place then as i say the sooner the better for us if he is sold on. I don't actually see that happening anytime soon though tbh.

green day
27-07-2019, 06:33 PM
Point taken but a 100 carat diamond is a 100 carat diamond no matter the market you operate in.

i do not claim to be ITK as regards the sell on clause but in assuming there is one in place then as i say the sooner the better for us if he is sold on. I don't actually see that happening anytime soon though tbh.

Football valuations are entirely subjective and dependent on performances, league, age, and any number of other factors.

If it were as simple as you say, then someone like Dobbie banging in 30 goals for QOTS would be back down south on a £50k a week contract.

I hope McGinn stays at Villa, plays fantastically well, then moves at the right time for him.

DetroitHibs
27-07-2019, 06:52 PM
Its the market we operate in, he was hardly going to move to Man Utd for £20m from Hibs

I and most others I have spoken to are relaxed about it. We apparently have an excellent sell on clause and I see him moving to a very large club for big money.

Its a win all round really, including St Mirren who rightly get money for developing him.

Heres my question regarding the money to St Mirren. I would have thought they are not included in any future transfer fees after his initial move from us to Villa. In our situation once he is sold from Villa to let’s say Man Utd for 50 million, I wouldn’t expect us to get any further money if he moved from Man Utd to say Real Madrid for 100 million. All a bit confusing.

wallpaperman
27-07-2019, 07:29 PM
Heres my question regarding the money to St Mirren. I would have thought they are not included in any future transfer fees after his initial move from us to Villa. In our situation once he is sold from Villa to let’s say Man Utd for 50 million, I wouldn’t expect us to get any further money if he moved from Man Utd to say Real Madrid for 100 million. All a bit confusing.

Why not?

Each transfer will be structured differently so impossible to say. St Mirren seemed to play this one quite cleverly so it wouldn’t surprise me.

Do you not remember that Hibs benefited substantially beyond the first transfer when Steven Fletcher moved on again? Because Rod was very canny.

DetroitHibs
27-07-2019, 07:49 PM
Why not?

Each transfer will be structured differently so impossible to say. St Mirren seemed to play this one quite cleverly so it wouldn’t surprise me.

Do you not remember that Hibs benefited substantially beyond the first transfer when Steven Fletcher moved on again? Because Rod was very canny.

The bottom line is we’ll never know. We have no idea what we got when the were promoted or if there is any future fees attached. For some reason I don’t think St Mirren are due anything from us going forward.

Broken Gnome
27-07-2019, 07:52 PM
Should be the year he really kicks on with Scotland too, far too many still too be convinced that he's worth the hype.

hibbyfraelibby
27-07-2019, 07:53 PM
The bottom line is we’ll never know. We have no idea what we got when the were promoted or if there is any future fees attached. For some reason I don’t think St Mirren are due anything from us going forward.

I would imagine that the first sell on is enforceable between the clubs but any subsequent sell ons may be a personal responsibility condition and might explain why so many apparent stick on transfers fail when the parties fail to agree "personal terms"

Northernhibee
27-07-2019, 07:57 PM
That is on the level of Messi.

Future17
27-07-2019, 08:22 PM
Heres my question regarding the money to St Mirren. I would have thought they are not included in any future transfer fees after his initial move from us to Villa. In our situation once he is sold from Villa to let’s say Man Utd for 50 million, I wouldn’t expect us to get any further money if he moved from Man Utd to say Real Madrid for 100 million. All a bit confusing.

It depends what's negotiated if and when that happens. Essentially, any money which a club receives as a result of transferring a player should be shared with the previous club if that's the deal. It doesn't matter whether that money is received up front or later.

allmodcons
27-07-2019, 08:34 PM
What a goal!!!!

Sums him up, determination to chase and hunt down the ball, honesty to stay on his feet when fouled and the skill and finesse to finish in style.

A superb footballer and an extremely grounded young man. Shame there's not more like him at the top level of the game.

Shrekko
27-07-2019, 09:14 PM
Must be one of the most under rated footballers there’s ever been until a few months ago.

Hardly any interest in him when we signed him. Fairly mediocre set of clubs were interested when he was here but yet a year later he’s probably valued at no less than £30 million... and due to his popularity at Villa it’s unlikely they’d even think about selling for less than £50 million.

Plenty Hibs fans didn’t realise how good he was either IMO.

bigwheel
27-07-2019, 09:25 PM
Must be one of the most under rated footballers there’s ever been until a few months ago.

Hardly any interest in him when we signed him. Fairly mediocre set of clubs were interested when he was here but yet a year later he’s probably valued at no less than £30 million... and due to his popularity at Villa it’s unlikely they’d even think about selling for less than £50 million.

Plenty Hibs fans didn’t realise how good he was either IMO.

Good points...the question is , who else is out there - underrated and ready to develop and shine ?? Must be a few....

green day
27-07-2019, 09:28 PM
Good points...the question is , who else is out there - underrated and ready to develop and shine ?? Must be a few....

Shaw is one of the finest young footballers in Europe

Northernhibee
27-07-2019, 09:30 PM
Good points...the question is , who else is out there - underrated and ready to develop and shine ?? Must be a few....
Wouldn’t surprise me if Vela shines. Been at a basket case of a club for ages and is now in a good team with a manager who can nurture his talent.

calumhibee1
27-07-2019, 09:33 PM
There was some on here who felt we should have accepted Celtic’s offer as he as they were the only team bidding at that point and he was “only worth what someone was willing to offer” apparently.

I didn't want him to go to Celtic and would much rather have seen him go down south - which in hindsight I'm so glad he has done. There was a part of me though did think that it would have potentially been beneficial for us had we got Scott Allan as part of the deal to help soften the blow of losing him. Again, in hindsight, as much as I love Scott Allan, I'm so glad we didn't.

Greentinted
27-07-2019, 09:34 PM
As he progresses he’ll be worth a lot to us and that’ll be gratefully received.
But more than that, it’s excellent to see one of our good guys going on to bigger and better things and looking like he’s enjoying the journey as he goes. Can’t think of anyone who deserves it more.

Daydreamer
27-07-2019, 09:38 PM
We wuz robbed..............right royally shafted when you see bang average no name players down south going for sums in excess of £10 mill' . Sooner he is sold on the better for us.



Exactly worse than the Hatton Garden. What a player saw Marinello, Cormack, Edwards, Stanton but McGinn just marvelous.

SquashedFrogg
27-07-2019, 09:45 PM
Shaw is one of the finest young footballers in Europe

There's always one.

brog
27-07-2019, 09:59 PM
Heres my question regarding the money to St Mirren. I would have thought they are not included in any future transfer fees after his initial move from us to Villa. In our situation once he is sold from Villa to let’s say Man Utd for 50 million, I wouldn’t expect us to get any further money if he moved from Man Utd to say Real Madrid for 100 million. All a bit confusing.

We would if Villa had a sell on clause in their sale. It's simple really, we get a certain % on any profit Villa make from the sale. If Villa get additional money from the next club selling him on then so would we, & probably so would St M. As someone else posted I was told we got about same again from Fletch's next 2 transfers as we did from the original fee.

lord bunberry
27-07-2019, 10:17 PM
I love him like I’d love a son I never had. He’s without doubt the finest player we’ve had since Sauzee. Arguably he was better than Sauzee. There you go I said it, but I mean it. John Mcginn is the best player I’ve ever seen pull on the shirt for us.

Spike Mandela
27-07-2019, 10:18 PM
Alex Ferguson wants Man Utd to sign McGinn...apparently.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/9598604/sir-alex-ferguson-man-utd-aston-villa-john-mcginn/

iwasthere1972
27-07-2019, 10:33 PM
Alex Ferguson wants Man Utd to sign McGinn...apparently.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/9598604/sir-alex-ferguson-man-utd-aston-villa-john-mcginn/

I'm pwoud. Would be great if we get a massive cut as well.

Scott Allan Key
27-07-2019, 10:37 PM
Point taken but a 100 carat diamond is a 100 carat diamond no matter the market you operate in.

i do not claim to be ITK as regards the sell on clause but in assuming there is one in place then as i say the sooner the better for us if he is sold on. I don't actually see that happening anytime soon though tbh.Agree. One of McGinn's best characteristics is his loyalty and gratitude to the team he represents. I can see him sticking with Villa for at least a couple of seasons, as long as they're in the EPL, which I can envisage.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

Phil MaGlass
28-07-2019, 10:06 AM
McGinn I think will be sold for millions in January, once hes shone, oh and Vela will be our next big money sale.

Northernhibee
28-07-2019, 10:07 AM
Agree. One of McGinn's best characteristics is his loyalty and gratitude to the team he represents. I can see him sticking with Villa for at least a couple of seasons, as long as they're in the EPL, which I can envisage.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

If Man Utd come in offering Villa £50m and SJM £50k per week there's no chance at all he won't be off.

calumhibee1
28-07-2019, 10:15 AM
If Man Utd come in offering Villa £50m and SJM £50k per week there's no chance at all he won't be off.

If they offer Villa £50m then they'll be offering SJM a hell of a lot more than £50k a week. :agree:

I'd rather see him go to Liverpool. He'd suit the way they play down to the ground.

CraigHibee
28-07-2019, 10:26 AM
Alex still held in high regard at United, wouldn't surprise me if United made a bid for McGinn,we would get a nice cut from it as well,win win

Shrekko
28-07-2019, 10:39 AM
I love him like I’d love a son I never had. He’s without doubt the finest player we’ve had since Sauzee. Arguably he was better than Sauzee. There you go I said it, but I mean it. John Mcginn is the best player I’ve ever seen pull on the shirt for us.

He’s the best player I’ve seen at Hibs in 40 years of watching. To reiterate what I said about him being under-rated I was stunned at a thread recently asking people who their top 5 Hibs players were and how many didn’t include him. Some of the names people were putting in front of him was incredible IMHO.

The_Horde
28-07-2019, 10:41 AM
He’s the best player I’ve seen at Hibs in 40 years of watching. To reiterate what I said about him being under-rated I was stunned at a thread recently asking people who their top 5 Hibs players were and how many didn’t include him. Some of the names people were putting in front of him was incredible IMHO.

Bigger legend than Sauzee as well.

Since452
28-07-2019, 10:41 AM
If they offer Villa £50m then they'll be offering SJM a hell of a lot more than £50k a week. :agree:

I'd rather see him go to Liverpool. He'd suit the way they play down to the ground.

Don't think he'll be far off £50k a week right now

southsider
28-07-2019, 11:02 AM
Don't think he'll be far off £50k a week right now

If he goes for £50m are we in for 20 percent ?

FilipinoHibs
28-07-2019, 11:11 AM
I love him like I’d love a son I never had. He’s without doubt the finest player we’ve had since Sauzee. Arguably he was better than Sauzee. There you go I said it, but I mean it. John Mcginn is the best player I’ve ever seen pull on the shirt for us.

Get a grip Sauzze and Latapy in a different class

PatHead
28-07-2019, 11:15 AM
Get a grip Sauzze and Latapy in a different class

Nope. McGinn is the best Hibs player since Pat Stanton.

mjhibby
28-07-2019, 11:20 AM
Must be one of the most under rated footballers there’s ever been until a few months ago.

Hardly any interest in him when we signed him. Fairly mediocre set of clubs were interested when he was here but yet a year later he’s probably valued at no less than £30 million... and due to his popularity at Villa it’s unlikely they’d even think about selling for less than £50 million.

Plenty Hibs fans didn’t realise how good he was either IMO.

I think the vast majority saw how good he is. Not as gifted as Scotty or Dylan but brought so much to that midfield unit. I think of Bryan Robson when I see mcginn now. I can see him having a similar career but that all depends on getting the right move at the right time. Just a brilliant player to have in your team and a truly lovely guy too.
His folks must be so proud of him plus of course his brothers. Some production line they have got in the mcginn household.��

GloryGlory
28-07-2019, 11:26 AM
If they offer Villa £50m then they'll be offering SJM a hell of a lot more than £50k a week. :agree:

I'd rather see him go to Liverpool. He'd suit the way they play down to the ground.

Bidding war, please! :greengrin

ISTR reading a few weeks ago that Villa had offered SJM a better deal Anyone know if he signed it?

Anyway, we will find out one way or another in a couple of weeks, when the English window closes.

mjhibby
28-07-2019, 11:27 AM
If Man Utd come in offering Villa £50m and SJM £50k per week there's no chance at all he won't be off.

When wan bassaka ( I think that's how you spell it) goes for £50m then I doubt villa will sell for that amount. I'd reckon £50m up front but with add ons around £70m in total. There will be all the top clubs looking at him and should he keep progressing as we are hoping then next summer and then the windows after that should be very interesting.

Allant1981
28-07-2019, 11:29 AM
Nope. McGinn is the best Hibs player since Pat Stanton.

He is good but not close YET to being as good as latapy and sauzee

we are hibs
28-07-2019, 11:34 AM
If we are talking about how good a footballer then both are probably better but i honestly love john mcginn. He is the most infectious player i have ever seen. Can single handedly change the course of a game with one wee burst and everyone else gets a boost from it. Hes my favourite hibs player ever.

FilipinoHibs
28-07-2019, 11:35 AM
Nope. McGinn is the best Hibs player since Pat Stanton.

Sauzee champions league winner. Described as the heart and soul of Marseille. 40 caps and ten goals for France. Latapy European cup semi finalist. In Dwight Yorke's all time 11 he has played with. I actually think Deke was a better talent and did it consistently at a higher level at Hibs than SJM. Also think the standard of the game is lower than Deke or Sauzee's period. Not to say that SJM may not develop further but he has not played an EPL game yet,one season in SPL for Hibs and achieved nothing with Scotland.

brog
28-07-2019, 11:35 AM
If Man Utd come in offering Villa £50m and SJM £50k per week there's no chance at all he won't be off.

Villa are a huge club. At present SJM is an iconic player for them, last season he was fans' & players' POTY. If SJM makes the step up to Premiership level, & I think he will, then Villa will probably have a fine 1st season back. There's really then only 5 or 6 clubs in Engerlund that would represent a step up for John & Villa fans would go berserk if he was sold to one of them. Contrary to expectations on here I expect to see John signing a new contract with Villa this season. I think any windfall from a sell on fee is a long way off but regardless I'm thrilled at what John's achieved with Villa so far & hope he goes on to even greater things. He deserves every success!

The_Horde
28-07-2019, 11:36 AM
Sauzee champions league winner. Described as the heart and soul of Marseille. 40 caps and ten goals for France. Latapy European cup semi finalist. In Dwight Yorke's all time 11 he has played with. I actually think Deke was a better talent and did it consistently at a higher level at Hibs than SJM. Also think the standard of the game is lower than Deke or Sauzee's period. Not to say that SJM may not develop further but he has not played an EPL game yet,one season in SPL for Hibs and achieved nothing with Scotland.

McGinn achieved more at hibs than either of them did.

You could make Shefki Kuqi sound like a hibs legend by mentioning all the things that went on before his hibs career.

PatHead
28-07-2019, 11:39 AM
He is good but not close YET to being as good as latapy and sauzee

I mean in their time at Hibs.

Allant1981
28-07-2019, 11:43 AM
I mean in their time at Hibs.

Still not better in my opinion, latapy was a genuis

JohnM1875
28-07-2019, 11:44 AM
Nope. McGinn is the best Hibs player since Pat Stanton.

I actually totally agree with you. Think its bizarre when people mention what Sauzee did before he was at Hibs. Obviously the guy was majorly talented and had a fantastic career. But McGinn was a better player for us, which is all that matters to me.

AgentDaleCooper
28-07-2019, 11:48 AM
By far my favourite player ever for hibs. He gave us so much, I still feel like he's part of the club.

In 10 years, his career will speak for itself. He'll be winning many major trophies IMO.

Shrekko
28-07-2019, 11:59 AM
I think it’s bizarre also when people are saying that he’s not a great footballer. How is it he managed to score that goal yesterday or goal of the season last year?? Have a look at the montages of his play Villa produced at their POTY ceremony!

His footballing ability is absolutely immense- he’s a fantastic dribbler, pacy, can pass, gets goals, assists... what more do you want? He’s also hard as nails but his footballing talent is what makes him a great player.

Sorry, there’s no Hibs player in 40 years who he is ‘nowhere near’ to! The other players being mentioned like Latapy had weaknesses that McGinn just doesn’t have.

Stantons Angel
28-07-2019, 12:02 PM
Im so pleased for this lad. He took his chance at glory and will succeed in all he does.

I cried when we lost Pat Stanton to Celtic especially the way Turnbull treated him and i missed him from that classic team for a long time.

Since then i have watched some talented players come and go and have never missed any of them to the extent i did Stanton.

I dont know why but i really miss McGinn so much from that midfield of ours especially last season.

You cant replace talent like that no matter how you try. He made us tick and without him there was no sparkle or dynamics coming from his area.

He is a really special talent and hopefully go on to another bigger club soon. I believe he will certainly light up the premier league and have them all taking note this season.

Good Luck John McGinn and never forget you once wore that Green and White jersey of Hibs!

Turnbullsmate
28-07-2019, 12:09 PM
Football valuations are entirely subjective and dependent on performances, league, age, and any number of other factors.

If it were as simple as you say, then someone like Dobbie banging in 30 goals for QOTS would be back down south on a £50k a week contract.

I hope McGinn stays at Villa, plays fantastically well, then moves at the right time for him.

***** me, i'm glad you came along to enlighten me as to the machinations of the transfer market...63 yrs young and every day a school day. Wish i had your savvy and insider knowledge when i began following our beloved club in the 60's, we might have just given Joe Baker that extra fiver a week with you at the helm

Allant1981
28-07-2019, 12:13 PM
I think it’s bizarre also when people are saying that he’s not a great footballer. How is it he managed to score that goal yesterday or goal of the season last year?? Have a look at the montages of his play Villa produced at their POTY ceremony!

His footballing ability is absolutely immense- he’s a fantastic dribbler, pacy, can pass, gets goals, assists... what more do you want? He’s also hard as nails but his footballing talent is what makes him a great player.

Sorry, there’s no Hibs player in 40 years who he is ‘nowhere near’ to! The other players being mentioned like Latapy had weaknesses that McGinn just doesn’t have.

Latapy could also go past a player with the ball at his feet quite easily, scored more goals for us than mcginn, think he also had more assists,wasnt as tough a player but didnt have to be. Mcginn is a cracking player and hopefully will go on to play for an even bigger club but he isnt as good as these players yet in my opinion as he seems to keep getting better and better

weecounty hibby
28-07-2019, 12:30 PM
Still not better in my opinion, latapy was a genuis
Latapy was a genius who let us down badly at the end. Super John never let Hibs down and indeed won the Scottish cup and a championship.

Northernhibee
28-07-2019, 12:31 PM
McGinn will have either a Premiership title or Champions League Winners medal in his trophy cabinet by the end of his career.

As it is, he's already won more than Levein has in his entire footballing life and he's barely just recently got pubes (not withcounting his face fuzz).

Allant1981
28-07-2019, 12:36 PM
Latapy was a genius who let us down badly at the end. Super John never let Hibs down and indeed won the Scottish cup and a championship.

Yip he certainly did, doesnt mean he was anything but a special player

GonzoReturns
28-07-2019, 12:37 PM
Latapy was a genius who let us down badly at the end. Super John never let Hibs down and indeed won the Scottish cup and a championship.

Agreed Latapy provided us with some great memories but when it really mattered ☹️☹️

Northernhibee
28-07-2019, 12:44 PM
The build up to our first goal on 21st May sums him up. Takes the ball - admittedly an awful first touch, but gets stuck in, arse out, wins the ball back, threads it through to Cummings with a fantastic pass and continues on despite drawing the foul.

I heard he's still running about after scoring that goal yesterday and nobody has been able to stop him. He's like the terminator.

andybev1
28-07-2019, 12:53 PM
What would happen if he completes his contrct and re-signs doe Villa - would we get anything?

Northernhibee
28-07-2019, 12:53 PM
What would happen if he completes his contrct and re-signs doe Villa - would we get anything?

If he's sold on, then yes.

wallpaperman
28-07-2019, 12:54 PM
What would happen if he completes his contrct and re-signs doe Villa - would we get anything?

This is not a serious question, right?

Iain G
28-07-2019, 12:58 PM
I see Alex Ferguson is being touted as a driving force to get McGinn to man utd today.

andybev1
28-07-2019, 01:28 PM
This is not a serious question, right?

why

jacomo
28-07-2019, 03:30 PM
why


I think the clue is in the name: sell on clause.

Hibs stand to benefit if McGinn is sold on.

Shrekko
28-07-2019, 03:40 PM
Latapy could also go past a player with the ball at his feet quite easily, scored more goals for us than mcginn, think he also had more assists,wasnt as tough a player but didnt have to be. Mcginn is a cracking player and hopefully will go on to play for an even bigger club but he isnt as good as these players yet in my opinion as he seems to keep getting better and better

I respect your opinion and I loved Russell too. He had as many flaws as good points though hence why he was at Hibs during his peak years.

There’s very few Hibs players who have gone past men like McGinn.

jacomo
28-07-2019, 04:02 PM
I respect your opinion and I loved Russell too. He had as many flaws as good points though hence why he was at Hibs during his peak years.

There’s very few Hibs players who have gone past men like McGinn.


Sure but to say he was under rated is a bit of nonsense.

There’s always the odd contrarian around but SJM one of the most adored Hibs players I can remember.

Sauzee also rightly remembered very fondly. He was amazing.

CraigHibee
28-07-2019, 04:46 PM
I see Alex Ferguson is being touted as a driving force to get McGinn to man utd today.

100%

Gantin-troosers
28-07-2019, 05:55 PM
I respect your opinion and I loved Russell too. He had as many flaws as good points though hence why he was at Hibs during his peak years.

There’s very few Hibs players who have gone past men like McGinn.

I'm sure Latapy was 31 when he joined Hibs. His prime years were when he played in Portugal with Porto and Boavista. He won the league twice with Porto and played in the champions league.

Jones28
28-07-2019, 06:09 PM
I love him like I’d love a son I never had. He’s without doubt the finest player we’ve had since Sauzee. Arguably he was better than Sauzee. There you go I said it, but I mean it. John Mcginn is the best player I’ve ever seen pull on the shirt for us.

I’d agree.

I missed the Franck years due to livings abroad and age, but in this day and age JM is about to play in the premier league, which could arguably be as big an achievement as FS winning the European cup with Marseille was in his time.

That might be a bit of a stretch come to think of it.

Skol
28-07-2019, 06:26 PM
Latapy was a genius and much as I like McGinn I would take Latapy every time if given a choice.

southsider
28-07-2019, 06:28 PM
John didn’t go out on a school night.

Allant1981
28-07-2019, 06:34 PM
I’d agree.

I missed the Franck years due to livings abroad and age, but in this day and age JM is about to play in the premier league, which could arguably be as big an achievement as FS winning the European cup with Marseille was in his time.

That might be a bit of a stretch come to think of it.

Aye that's stretching it a big bit, playing in the premier league is not on the same planet as winning the European cup

Turnbullsmate
28-07-2019, 06:52 PM
Aye that's stretching it a big bit, playing in the premier league is not on the same planet as winning the European cup

oh really....so Liverpool never did it with a young talent from Ayr at LB ??? how elitist and blinkered are you

Allant1981
28-07-2019, 06:59 PM
oh really....so Liverpool never did it with a young talent from Ayr at LB ??? how elitist and blinkered are you

What are you talking about?

Stuart93
28-07-2019, 07:01 PM
oh really....so Liverpool never did it with a young talent from Ayr at LB ??? how elitist and blinkered are you

Hahaha. What?

Onion
28-07-2019, 07:11 PM
Latapy was a genius and much as I like McGinn I would take Latapy every time if given a choice.

Can you imagine a midfield of Sauzee, Latapy and McGinn :drool: All very different, all very brilliant at what they do best.

Is It On....
28-07-2019, 08:42 PM
Must be one of the most under rated footballers there’s ever been until a few months ago.

Hardly any interest in him when we signed him. Fairly mediocre set of clubs were interested when he was here but yet a year later he’s probably valued at no less than £30 million... and due to his popularity at Villa it’s unlikely they’d even think about selling for less than £50 million.

Plenty Hibs fans didn’t realise how good he was either IMO.

Guilty as charged on your last point. Glad to have been proven wrong though 🙂. I have to say the way he conducted himself throughout his time at Hibs and his subsequent handling of events last summer was real class !!

andybev1
28-07-2019, 09:29 PM
I think the clue is in the name: sell on clause.

Hibs stand to benefit if McGinn is sold on.

really? :rolleyes: But, just hypothetically, if the hibs transfer contract with Villa goes its 3 or 4 years and he is not sold on and signs, say another 2 years then since the initial contract ran its course and he was not technically sold on........ would the initial sell on fee part of the contract stand.

Now that I have had to explain it, I am not so sure I care. Maybe it was a daft question after all

tamig
28-07-2019, 09:38 PM
oh really....so Liverpool never did it with a young talent from Ayr at LB ??? how elitist and blinkered are you

Not really sure if you missed the point of the previous post. Winning the European Cup/CL is a far bigger achievement than simply playing fir an EPL side. That was the point.
Were you referring to Stevie Nicol as the player from Ayr? If so, he was a right back.

theonlywayisup
28-07-2019, 09:43 PM
really? :rolleyes: But, just hypothetically, if the hibs transfer contract with Villa goes its 3 or 4 years and he is not sold on and signs, say another 2 years then since the initial contract ran its course and he was not technically sold on........ would the initial sell on fee part of the contract stand.

Now that I have had to explain it, I am not so sure I care. Maybe it was a daft question after all

Don't think it's a daft question.

I'm sure the experts on this forum will confirm what happens in such situations.

KWJ
28-07-2019, 09:50 PM
Don't think it's a daft question.

I'm sure the experts on this forum will confirm what happens in such situations.

The sell on fee isn't part of McGinn's contract with Villa it's part of the transfer arrangement between Hibs and Villa. Like Hibs have with St. Mirren.

If McGinn were to go somewhere else for free once any of his Villa contracts expire, that'd be a bugger.

green day
28-07-2019, 09:51 PM
***** me, i'm glad you came along to enlighten me as to the machinations of the transfer market...63 yrs young and every day a school day. Wish i had your savvy and insider knowledge when i began following our beloved club in the 60's, we might have just given Joe Baker that extra fiver a week with you at the helm

Not entirely sure why you are arguing with everyone, it's a fans forum and you are allowed to have different opinions without getting their knickers in a twist.....

andybev1
28-07-2019, 09:53 PM
Don't think it's a daft question.

I'm sure the experts on this forum will confirm what happens in such situations.

Thanks. As it goes, like others I think and hope Mcginn does move on but only if it is right for him. Edit: I would prefer Liverpool than Man Utd

Pagan Hibernia
28-07-2019, 10:10 PM
The sell on fee isn't part of McGinn's contract with Villa it's part of the transfer arrangement between Hibs and Villa. Like Hibs have with St. Mirren.

If McGinn were to go somewhere else for free once any of his Villa contracts expire, that'd be a bugger.

He wont go anywhere on a free.

He’s made sure every club he has played for has been looked after when he moved on. He’ll do the same for villa. And he knows very well how important that sell on fee is to Hibs.

Pagan Hibernia
28-07-2019, 10:14 PM
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs-reject-third-celtic-bid-for-john-mcginn-1-4772587

This article warms my heart. 12 months ago, almost to the day. He's still a Hibs player. Celtic have come in for a 3rd time with a bid of 2million after having two earlier bids of 1.5million and 1.75million flatly rejected. Lawwell is trying to play hardball publicly, saying they know what he's worth etc. But then he goes to Villa with a nice sell on fee written into the contract, for less than we quoted Celtic we wanted for him :faf: (the best bit IMO), and fast forward a year he's one of the hottest properties in football, won Villa promotion, is the fans hero, scored some unbelievable goals and a 50 million Man Utd bid is rumoured.

We won.

has anyone got a link to that Celtic blog from this time last year when the Celtic fan was saying stuff like “I wonder if the Hibs shareholders are happy about Petrie playing hardball.... Hibs will not win this battle, McGinn will end up a Celtic player.... No one is going to come in with more money from McGinn”

just want a good laugh at their arrogance.

Hibernia&Alba
28-07-2019, 10:23 PM
Should he go to Man United, we will hit the jackpot and receive millions.

Hi Heid Yin
28-07-2019, 10:50 PM
has anyone got a link to that Celtic blog from this time last year when the Celtic fan was saying stuff like “I wonder if the Hibs shareholders are happy about Petrie playing hardball.... Hibs will not win this battle, McGinn will end up a Celtic player.... No one is going to come in with more money from McGinn”

just want a good laugh at their arrogance.

It's so satisfying to see Celtic FC kicking themselves at losing out on John McGinn.

The sheer arrogance and affrontery of Celtic in offering an absolute pittance for McGinn shows what they think of our club.

DarlingtonHibee
28-07-2019, 10:57 PM
It's so satisfying to see Celtic FC kicking themselves at losing out on John McGinn.

The sheer arrogance and affrontery of Celtic in offering an absolute pittance for McGinn shows what they think of our club.
This times a million.

Bunch of school boy bullies

Change days now.

Sweet Left Peg
28-07-2019, 11:06 PM
It's so satisfying to see Celtic FC kicking themselves at losing out on John McGinn.

The sheer arrogance and affrontery of Celtic in offering an absolute pittance for McGinn shows what they think of our club.

Yes, but I think it reinforces the fact that we will not bend over when it comes to selling our best players. We are in a strong position. Well done Hibs and we'll done SJM.

Hi Heid Yin
28-07-2019, 11:17 PM
This times a million.

Bunch of school boy bullies

Change days now.


:aok:

Hi Heid Yin
28-07-2019, 11:18 PM
Yes, but I think it reinforces the fact that we will not bend over when it comes to selling our best players. We are in a strong position. Well done Hibs and we'll done SJM.

I agree 100%.

Well done indeed to our club!

stoneyburn hibs
28-07-2019, 11:21 PM
The McGinn, Sauzee,Latapy argument is obviously a great debate. I'm delighted to have seen all three.

What can't be up for debate is that SJM is surely the most likeable character. His desire is infectious, imo of course.

mjhibby
29-07-2019, 12:14 AM
The McGinn, Sauzee,Latapy argument is obviously a great debate. I'm delighted to have seen all three.

What can't be up for debate is that SJM is surely the most likeable character. His desire is infectious, imo of course.

Agreed of course. Sauzee while not only being a superb footballer, seemed to make guys likestuart Lovell and Paul Fenwick play to their absolute best. Russell didn't have that but was some player. Sauzee for me is the best of the three with latapy and mcginn I'd say equal. Im just so glad they spent some of their careers at er.

Turnbullsmate
29-07-2019, 03:49 AM
Not really sure if you missed the point of the previous post. Winning the European Cup/CL is a far bigger achievement than simply playing fir an EPL side. That was the point.
Were you referring to Stevie Nicol as the player from Ayr? If so, he was a right back.

Apologies, was actually referring to Andy Robertson who i mistakenly believed to be from Ayrshire. My take is that the European Cup/CL is a piss poor competition to rake in more funds for the elite .
I think it is far harder to compete and survive in the Premier League.

But what do i know ? I was brought up in the days when the European Cup was for title winners only and not for 4th place losers. Money huh !!!

Who funds all this either directly or indirectly ? You, me and all the other football loving people while the fat cats gorge on our stupidity

Allant1981
29-07-2019, 05:53 AM
Apologies, was actually referring to Andy Robertson who i mistakenly believed to be from Ayrshire. My take is that the European Cup/CL is a piss poor competition to rake in more funds for the elite .
I think it is far harder to compete and survive in the Premier League.

But what do i know ? I was brought up in the days when the European Cup was for title winners only and not for 4th place losers. Money huh !!!

Who funds all this either directly or indirectly ? You, me and all the other football loving people while the fat cats gorge on our stupidity

So do you think Robertson will remember winning the cup or finishing second in the league in a few years time?

Since452
29-07-2019, 06:06 AM
Apologies, was actually referring to Andy Robertson who i mistakenly believed to be from Ayrshire. My take is that the European Cup/CL is a piss poor competition to rake in more funds for the elite .
I think it is far harder to compete and survive in the Premier League.

But what do i know ? I was brought up in the days when the European Cup was for title winners only and not for 4th place losers. Money huh !!!

Who funds all this either directly or indirectly ? You, me and all the other football loving people while the fat cats gorge on our stupidity

I agree. The "Champions League" is elitist noncence. I pay little to no attention to it these days sadly. Liverpool v Tottenham in the final summed it up.

Turnbullsmate
29-07-2019, 06:11 AM
So do you think Robertson will remember winning the cup or finishing second in the league in a few years time?

Probably both.

Allant1981
29-07-2019, 06:31 AM
Probably both.

I'm pretty sure he will tell people about winning the cup, I have been fortunate to win a few things in my life in sport and i never tell people about the times i didnt win. Anyway this has went way off the mcginn topic now so this will be the last post on this topic from me

Forza Fred
29-07-2019, 07:13 AM
Villa are a huge club. At present SJM is an iconic player for them, last season he was fans' & players' POTY. If SJM makes the step up to Premiership level, & I think he will, then Villa will probably have a fine 1st season back. There's really then only 5 or 6 clubs in Engerlund that would represent a step up for John & Villa fans would go berserk if he was sold to one of them. Contrary to expectations on here I expect to see John signing a new contract with Villa this season. I think any windfall from a sell on fee is a long way off but regardless I'm thrilled at what John's achieved with Villa so far & hope he goes on to even greater things. He deserves every success!

Agree Brian, I don't think SJM will be anywhere but Villa this season, never did.

He was on a speculated 28k a week already, and seems happy and settled, earning rave reviews.

A few more thousand a week and I think he'll be content proving himself in the EPL in an atmosphere and surroundings where its already been proven that he thrives.

Barman Stanton
29-07-2019, 11:46 AM
McGinn is a great player, who seems to be getting better and better. Very good chance he will go right to the top.

Regardless, Sauzee still the best I have seen play for us. Hard to explain if you didnt see him, he just had class in everything he did on the pitch.

IWasThere2016
29-07-2019, 11:52 AM
The McGinn, Sauzee,Latapy argument is obviously a great debate. I'm delighted to have seen all three.

What can't be up for debate is that SJM is surely the most likeable character. His desire is infectious, imo of course.

It is - after giving Pat Stanton the no. 1 spot on any Hibs list :aok:

cmcd
29-07-2019, 02:39 PM
Can you imagine a midfield of Sauzee, Latapy and McGinn :drool: All very different, all very brilliant at what they do best.

You would have to add Willie Hamilton to that midfield .The best I can remember

MWHIBBIES
29-07-2019, 02:45 PM
Apologies, was actually referring to Andy Robertson who i mistakenly believed to be from Ayrshire. My take is that the European Cup/CL is a piss poor competition to rake in more funds for the elite .
I think it is far harder to compete and survive in the Premier League.

But what do i know ? I was brought up in the days when the European Cup was for title winners only and not for 4th place losers. Money huh !!!

Who funds all this either directly or indirectly ? You, me and all the other football loving people while the fat cats gorge on our stupidity

Best football matches by far last season were in the champions league

Captain Trips
29-07-2019, 10:43 PM
Should he go to Man United, we will hit the jackpot and receive millions.

Should he go to Man Utd hopefully next time we have a player of very high quality we get the big bucks. As strong as Hibs may have been with Celtic the fee we got is IMO a piss take.

jacomo
29-07-2019, 10:47 PM
Should he go to Man Utd hopefully next time we have a player of very high quality we get the big bucks. As strong as Hibs may have been with Celtic the fee we got is IMO a piss take.


Only 2 clubs bid for him as far as we know.

Villa think they got a bargain and they did, but we played our hand as best we could.

Forza Fred
29-07-2019, 10:56 PM
Only 2 clubs bid for him as far as we know.

Villa think they got a bargain and they did, but we played our hand as best we could.

Exactly.

If SJM had went down there and ‘done a Cummings’ then very few would be saying that.

SJM was an unknown to most outside Scotland at the time, not even his now Billa team mates knew anything about him.

His value has increased exponentially because he has actually demonstrated that he can play in the Championship successfully.

We got what we could at that particular time.

monktonharp
29-07-2019, 11:15 PM
Latapy was a genius who let us down badly at the end. Super John never let Hibs down and indeed won the Scottish cup and a championship.:agree::aok:

FilipinoHibs
29-07-2019, 11:28 PM
The McGinn, Sauzee,Latapy argument is obviously a great debate. I'm delighted to have seen all three.

What can't be up for debate is that SJM is surely the most likeable character. His desire is infectious, imo of course.

Frank was a very likeable character too but SJM is something extra special as a person. We were indeed very luck to have him and watch him play. A very fine human being and footballer. I will always follow his career and wish him well.

Phil MaGlass
30-07-2019, 05:30 AM
I agree. The "Champions League" is elitist noncence. I pay little to no attention to it these days sadly. Liverpool v Tottenham in the final summed it up.

Im the same.

DetroitHibs
30-07-2019, 05:43 AM
I think the Sauzee, McGinn and Latapy comparison is a little skewed. SJM came as a young up and comer, while the other two were in there prime and well established. We watched John grow as a player and we feel in love with John just as he fell in love with Hibernian FC. The lad came of age and left a legend.

calumhibee1
30-07-2019, 06:39 AM
I agree. The "Champions League" is elitist noncence. I pay little to no attention to it these days sadly. Liverpool v Tottenham in the final summed it up.

What did it sum up? Just the fact that non-champions get in it? Of course the name seems daft given who gets in but I’d rather watch a Champions League with Liverpool, Real Madrid, Dortmund etc in it next season than one with the winners of the Finnish, Belarusian and Welsh leagues replacing them just because it was more suited to the name they’ve given it.

FilipinoHibs
30-07-2019, 06:49 AM
Im the same.

Although both semis were cracking games.

jacomo
30-07-2019, 07:25 AM
I think the Sauzee, McGinn and Latapy comparison is a little skewed. SJM came as a young up and comer, while the other two were in there prime and well established. We watched John grow as a player and we feel in love with John just as he fell in love with Hibernian FC. The lad came of age and left a legend.


This is a fair point.

All the love for SJM is justified and deserved. But... no need to talk down former players. When we signed Franck we wondered if his legs had gone... and when he did find midfield a bit too much, he just adapted and became our best defender.

He was called Le God for a reason!

brog
30-07-2019, 07:43 AM
Agree Brian, I don't think SJM will be anywhere but Villa this season, never did.

He was on a speculated 28k a week already, and seems happy and settled, earning rave reviews.

A few more thousand a week and I think he'll be content proving himself in the EPL in an atmosphere and surroundings where its already been proven that he thrives.

Pretty much where I am Freddie. Delighted that 4 of us from London Hibs have briefs for Palace Villa next month!

Skol
31-07-2019, 08:59 PM
Cracking article by Andy Holden on McGinn in todays times

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/john-mcginn-trains-like-a-demon-he-reminds-me-of-wayne-rooney-zxn6vwdkm

oneone73
31-07-2019, 09:02 PM
Cracking article by Andy Holden on McGinn in todays times

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/john-mcginn-trains-like-a-demon-he-reminds-me-of-wayne-rooney-zxn6vwdkm

Enjoyed that. Thanks for posting

cockneymike
31-07-2019, 10:03 PM
Enjoyed that. Thanks for posting

Any chance you could copy and paste I don’t have times subscription? Thanks

MagicSwirlingShip
31-07-2019, 10:24 PM
Cracking article by Andy Holden on McGinn in todays times

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/john-mcginn-trains-like-a-demon-he-reminds-me-of-wayne-rooney-zxn6vwdkm

Can anyone copy and paste the article in here?

It's blocking my access to the site and asking me to subscribe.

Deansy
31-07-2019, 10:58 PM
Can anyone copy and paste the article in here?

It's blocking my access to the site and asking me to subscribe.


‘John McGinn trains like a demon – he reminds me of Wayne Rooney’Paul Joyce (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/profile/paul-joyce), Northern Sports Correspondent
July 31 2019, 5:00pm, The Times



Premier League (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/topic/premier-league)
Football (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/topic/football)



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/imageserver/image/methode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2F2f57af9e-b391-11e9-9df9-ac98825b867a.jpg?crop=4634%2C2606%2C23%2C225&resize=685
In 44 appearances for Villa last season McGinn, right, contributed seven goals and ten assists from central midfieldDarren Staples/PA WireShare
Firstly, John McGinn launched the press to force a mistake from a panicked rival before pouncing on the error to dart forward with the ball at his feet. There was a scything challenge from a defender, desperately seeking to avert danger, to vault over, before bursting into the penalty area where he showcased some fancy footwork to flummox an embarrassed goalkeeper.
A close-range finish into a gaping net brought an end to eight seconds of mayhem for Aston Villa in a 4-1 victory over Charlton Athletic in their penultimate pre-season fixture and served to whet the appetite for what might follow.
“What happened at the weekend will happen many more times in the Premier League,” says Andy Holden, a former Everton coach. “That goal is John in a nutshell. Not many midfielders do what he does.”
Holden speaks from experience having worked with McGinn at Hibernian while a member of Alan Stubbs’s coaching staff and has championed the 24-year-old long before Villa’s return to the top flight was confirmed in May. Typically, it was McGinn who scored the decisive goal at Wembley in a 2-1 victory over Derby County.
A year ago, the Scotland international was preparing to move from Hibernian to the Championship for what has proved, in this money-flushed era, a bargain £3 million fee, and another step up in a career set on fast-forward.
McGinn can already count on the adoration of the Holte End, but boasts the potential to earn himself an army of new admirers next season as his all-action style and penchant for the spectacular gains wider attention. For rivals he is not so much one to watch, as one to stifle.
“He is a throwback,” says Holden, who also spent more than a decade as a coach at Everton before two seasons in Edinburgh as McGinn helped Hibernian win the Scottish Cup for the first time in more than a century in 2016.
“At Hibs, he would be the first one out to train and he’d ask, ‘What was Wayne Rooney like?’
“I’d say, ‘Just like you, son.’ Wayne would be the first out with a bag of balls on his back and last in carrying a bag of balls as well.
“They are different players, and you can’t compare what they have done, but in terms of loving football and having drive and focus they are very similar.
“John trains like a demon, cares massively about what he does and he is a gem of a kid. In the dressing room, he will say something to gee-up his team-mates but what sets him apart is that he also has the ability to do things in a game that lead the way as well.
“I’m sure a lot of people will see that over the coming months.”
The education McGinn received in his homeland with St Mirren and then Hibs ensured he arrived at Villa with almost 200 appearances in senior football under his belt by the age of 23.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/imageserver/image/methode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2F7c96d500-b396-11e9-9df9-ac98825b867a.jpg?crop=2545%2C1697%2C0%2C0&resize=685

McGinn joined Aston Villa for £3 million from Hibernian a year agoSCOTTISH NEWS AND SPORTIf Steve Bruce did little to endear himself to the Villa fans during his tenure, then he can, at least, point to one of his last acts being to recruit the high-octane midfielder who will look to continue offering both industry and inspiration.
Having also signed Andrew Robertson during his time in charge at Hull City, Bruce seems decidedly less sniffy about recruiting from Scotland than those who prefer to wait to see how exports fare south of the border.
Like Robertson and Virgil van Dijk, McGinn is also attracting interest from the established elite.
Manchester United have watched McGinn — Sir Alex Ferguson knows his grandfather, Jack, a former chairman of Celtic — but the likelihood remains that he signs a new long-term contract at Villa Park.
If the new season goes as predicted for McGinn then Villa’s foresight will be rewarded.
“He won’t have any fears about the Premier League. He will actually get more time to play, more time to get on the ball and influence matches; name the midfielders who do what he does.

“People thought of him as a battering ram, but he’s much more than that. He’ll drive past you and if he sends a shot 30 yards over the crossbar, it won’t bother him because he will back himself to put it in the top corner next time.
“We worked on his distances at Hibs because sometimes he would come too deep and get the ball off the centre halves and play the pass they could have played,” continued Holden.
“But he quickly learnt and if I shouted ‘McGinn’ he would just raise his hand in acknowledgement and move forward to where he could influence the game better.

“He’s at a massive club at Villa, but there’ll be plenty of clubs doing homework on John this season. He’s a special kid and a special player.”

.................................................. .................................................. .........................................


'He will actually get more time to play, more time to get on the ball and influence matches'

SJM is going to be even more of a joy to watch next season

Mibbes Aye
31-07-2019, 11:45 PM
I watched a number of Villa games last season, essentially out of interest in how SJM was doing.

It was patently obvious he was playing a lot higher up the pitch than he did at Hibs, with different responsibilities and expectations on him from the manager. I think he needed time and deserves credit for adapting his style to suit that, because he certainly has been making the most of it.

Mibbes Aye
31-07-2019, 11:52 PM
Best football matches by far last season were in the champions league

I am inclined to agree but with the caveat that there were some fantastic EPL games last season.

It was certainly a massive riposte to the naysayers who like to brand both competitions as sterile.

However, there is the suspicion that these things fluctuate because of tactical ebbs and flows, so we might get a couple of seasons of pure attacking entertainment, followed by a couple of seasons of very strong defences and repeat ad infinitum. And actually, either and both have their merit.

It is the kind of thing Jonathan Wilson writes about very articulately and I would recommend his work to those who haven’t come across it before.

lord bunberry
01-08-2019, 12:15 AM
What did it sum up? Just the fact that non-champions get in it? Of course the name seems daft given who gets in but I’d rather watch a Champions League with Liverpool, Real Madrid, Dortmund etc in it next season than one with the winners of the Finnish, Belarusian and Welsh leagues replacing them just because it was more suited to the name they’ve given it.
You should be able to watch both. The cream will almost always rise to the top, but the days of the plucky underdog going on an unexpected good run has almost gone. Our league winners face an almost impossible task, yet the fourth placed team in England have a disproportionate chance of success. What’s wrong with giving our league winners that chance and making the fourth placed club in the bigger leagues go through the qualifying rounds?

Mibbes Aye
01-08-2019, 12:51 AM
On the Champions League topic, it is a bit like the World Cup.

If you take the early eighties, English teams were completing a period of absolute dominance of the European Cup (usually with a spine of Scottish players). Televised games were a bit of a treat and were played against sides who you might know were good but didn’t really know why. European leagues weren’t televised and you almost had to be a nerd who studiously read World Soccer Magazine or have family to know the relative strengths of Jeunesse D’Esch, Dynamo Dresden or AS Roma.

Similarly in the World Cup, Brazil would show up and you didn’t know their players. A few were with European clubs but you would only know of them through WSM or if they featured in a televised European Cup game.

Today, we have every fact about every player at our fingertips, we can see countless performances on YouTube and various other sites. The mystery has gone and we live in a culture of instant gratification, especially around information.

There is no mystique to football nowadays, every coach has every scope to know as much about their opponents as is possible. And the way the money has evolved, a straightforward knockout would every so often throw up a shock but the vast majority of times wouldn’t.

So as a subscriber, what do I want? I probably wouldn’t bother watching Juventus play Brondby, no insult to Brondby, but I would be tempted if it was a game against Athletico or Borussia Dortmund even in the group stages.

Because very good teams are being matched against very good teams and that can make for compelling football.

England is a good example. Leicester City and back in the day, Blackburn Rovers, were title champions but I would be lying if I said they held more than curiosity value in Europe and I would be far keener to watch an Arsenal and Man U going up against European heavyweights.

lord bunberry
01-08-2019, 01:39 AM
On the Champions League topic, it is a bit like the World Cup.

If you take the early eighties, English teams were completing a period of absolute dominance of the European Cup (usually with a spine of Scottish players). Televised games were a bit of a treat and were played against sides who you might know were good but didn’t really know why. European leagues weren’t televised and you almost had to be a nerd who studiously read World Soccer Magazine or have family to know the relative strengths of Jeunesse D’Esch, Dynamo Dresden or AS Roma.

Similarly in the World Cup, Brazil would show up and you didn’t know their players. A few were with European clubs but you would only know of them through WSM or if they featured in a televised European Cup game.

Today, we have every fact about every player at our fingertips, we can see countless performances on YouTube and various other sites. The mystery has gone and we live in a culture of instant gratification, especially around information.

There is no mystique to football nowadays, every coach has every scope to know as much about their opponents as is possible. And the way the money has evolved, a straightforward knockout would every so often throw up a shock but the vast majority of times wouldn’t.

So as a subscriber, what do I want? I probably wouldn’t bother watching Juventus play Brondby, no insult to Brondby, but I would be tempted if it was a game against Athletico or Borussia Dortmund even in the group stages.

Because very good teams are being matched against very good teams and that can make for compelling football.

England is a good example. Leicester City and back in the day, Blackburn Rovers, were title champions but I would be lying if I said they held more than curiosity value in Europe and I would be far keener to watch an Arsenal and Man U going up against European heavyweights.
The reason we are in a situation where you’d rather watch the bigger teams play each other is because UEFA have created a system where the bigger teams absolutely dominate the smaller teams. Juventus v brondby wouldve been a great match up before seedings and priorities to major leagues. I’m sure you remember the days when Red Star Belgrade and Steaua Bucharest where going deep and winning the European Cup. Is today’s tournament where the big teams are kept apart in the early stages while resting players in the group stages and only getting serious around February a better spectacle than when it was an open draw? Not for me, but it won’t change now sadly.

MagicSwirlingShip
01-08-2019, 01:50 AM
‘John McGinn trains like a demon – he reminds me of Wayne Rooney’[B][URL="https://www.thetimes.co.uk/profile/paul-joyce"]

Cheers Deansy, class!

Mibbes Aye
01-08-2019, 02:08 AM
The reason we are in a situation where you’d rather watch the bigger teams play each other is because UEFA have created a system where the bigger teams absolutely dominate the smaller teams. Juventus v brondby wouldve been a great match up before seedings and priorities to major leagues. I’m sure you remember the days when Red Star Belgrade and Steaua Bucharest where going deep and winning the European Cup. Is today’s tournament where the big teams are kept apart in the early stages while resting players in the group stages and only getting serious around February a better spectacle than when it was an open draw? Not for me, but it won’t change now sadly.

As far as I recall, the Red Star and Steaua finals would easily make it into the top five worst ever European Cup finals. They were dismal borefests, all about negativity and defence.

It is a bit like the Betfred. We can go out and play a resolute league two side who are determined and up for it and we huff and puff and probably come through. The real interest is when we have to go up to Aberdeen on a Wednesday night, or play Celtic at Hampden in the semis.

If you look at the history of European success, the big teams always dominated and still do. The supposedly lesser teams came through every once so often and still do.

I will watch Juve versus Athletico if I’m not prioritising something else. I won’t watch Juve versus poor old Brondby unless I really don’t have anything else I can do. That’s reality and it is not UEFA’s fault, they are merely responding to what consumers want.

Viva_Palmeiras
01-08-2019, 04:25 AM
As far as I recall, the Red Star and Steaua finals would easily make it into the top five worst ever European Cup finals. They were dismal borefests, all about negativity and defence.

It is a bit like the Betfred. We can go out and play a resolute league two side who are determined and up for it and we huff and puff and probably come through. The real interest is when we have to go up to Aberdeen on a Wednesday night, or play Celtic at Hampden in the semis.

If you look at the history of European success, the big teams always dominated and still do. The supposedly lesser teams came through every once so often and still do.

I will watch Juve versus Athletico if I’m not prioritising something else. I won’t watch Juve versus poor old Brondby unless I really don’t have anything else I can do. That’s reality and it is not UEFA’s fault, they are merely responding to what consumers want.

So the rich clubs get richer and the become untouchable?

What if the consumers want (eg“to break the bank to sign X”) threatens the sustainability of the game?
Clubs and fans sometimes need protection from themselves. And it’s the games regulators/authorities that should be stepping in - with the likes of a working set of financial play fair rules that are upheld.

hibee316
01-08-2019, 07:18 AM
So the rich clubs get richer and the become untouchable?

What if the consumers want (eg“to break the bank to sign X”) threatens the sustainability of the game?
Clubs and fans sometimes need protection from themselves. And it’s the games regulators/authorities that should be stepping in - with the likes of a working set of financial play fair rules that are upheld.

You are right, but the regulators/authorities are also coining it in...

Barman Stanton
01-08-2019, 08:56 AM
So the rich clubs get richer and the become untouchable?

What if the consumers want (eg“to break the bank to sign X”) threatens the sustainability of the game?
Clubs and fans sometimes need protection from themselves. And it’s the games regulators/authorities that should be stepping in - with the likes of a working set of financial play fair rules that are upheld.

How I see it as well. And it’s a shame any Scottish football fan would be a fan of this system. Europe is pretty much a closed shop now, UEFA are only interested in the elite clubs. The route Scottish Clubs have to take to get into the groups is shocking. And the elite 8 or so will just get richer and richer.

WeeRussell
01-08-2019, 11:29 AM
As far as I recall, the Red Star and Steaua finals would easily make it into the top five worst ever European Cup finals. They were dismal borefests, all about negativity and defence.

It is a bit like the Betfred. We can go out and play a resolute league two side who are determined and up for it and we huff and puff and probably come through. The real interest is when we have to go up to Aberdeen on a Wednesday night, or play Celtic at Hampden in the semis.

If you look at the history of European success, the big teams always dominated and still do. The supposedly lesser teams came through every once so often and still do.

I will watch Juve versus Athletico if I’m not prioritising something else. I won’t watch Juve versus poor old Brondby unless I really don’t have anything else I can do. That’s reality and it is not UEFA’s fault, they are merely responding to what consumers want.

Does the Champions league count in the list of worst European Cup finals, and would you include this year's contest in the top 5 worst ever?

PatHead
01-08-2019, 11:50 AM
See Villa have signed a player called Marvellous. That means they now have a Marvellous and a Super in the team. Who next?

JeMeSouviens
01-08-2019, 11:57 AM
As far as I recall, the Red Star and Steaua finals would easily make it into the top five worst ever European Cup finals. They were dismal borefests, all about negativity and defence.

It is a bit like the Betfred. We can go out and play a resolute league two side who are determined and up for it and we huff and puff and probably come through. The real interest is when we have to go up to Aberdeen on a Wednesday night, or play Celtic at Hampden in the semis.

If you look at the history of European success, the big teams always dominated and still do. The supposedly lesser teams came through every once so often and still do.

I will watch Juve versus Athletico if I’m not prioritising something else. I won’t watch Juve versus poor old Brondby unless I really don’t have anything else I can do. That’s reality and it is not UEFA’s fault, they are merely responding to what consumers want.

You could watch Juve vs Atletico or Athletic - so pick one! :greengrin

The big teams have tended to dominate but it's an order of magnitude more than the pre-CL era. This year Ajax, 4 times European Cup winners, were regarded as fairytale underdogs.

Agree about that Red Star final. The thing was they have been brilliant in earlier rounds, including scudding the Huns. :greengrin It was the team of Pancev, Prosinecki, Savicevic etc but they were sent out to play like a Levein all star select. I suppose it worked though.

BonnieFitbaTeam
01-08-2019, 12:08 PM
As far as I recall, the Red Star and Steaua finals would easily make it into the top five worst ever European Cup finals. They were dismal borefests, all about negativity and defence.

It is a bit like the Betfred. We can go out and play a resolute league two side who are determined and up for it and we huff and puff and probably come through. The real interest is when we have to go up to Aberdeen on a Wednesday night, or play Celtic at Hampden in the semis.

If you look at the history of European success, the big teams always dominated and still do. The supposedly lesser teams came through every once so often and still do.

I will watch Juve versus Athletico if I’m not prioritising something else. I won’t watch Juve versus poor old Brondby unless I really don’t have anything else I can do. That’s reality and it is not UEFA’s fault, they are merely responding to what consumers want.


Remember it well. Red Star's march to the final was on the back of playing brilliant football right up until that last 90 minutes. I remember they put 4 or 5 past the Currants and it genuinely should have been 10. A joy to watch until they sh@t it in the final A crying shame!

Oops...JeMeSouviens beat me to it https://www.hibs.net/image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhDwAPANEAAP///729vVn/yAAAACH/C05FVFNDQVBFMi4wAwEAAAAh/sFodHRwOi8vd3d3LnJ0bHNvZnQuY29tL2FuaW1hZ2ljLwoKQ3J lYXRlZCB3aXRoIEFuaW1hZ2ljIEdJRiBWIDEuMjEKYnkgUmlna HQgdG8gTGVmdCBTb2Z0d2FyZSBJbmMuCgpUbyBzdXBwcmVzcyB 0aGlzIG1lc3NhZ2UgaW4gdGhlIHJlZ2lzdGVyZWQgdmVyc2lvb gp1bmNoZWNrICJPcHRpb25zIHwgQW5pbWFnaWMgY29tbWVudCB mcmFtZSIKACH5BAkeAAEALAAAAAAPAA8AAAI6jD2Zx5EC4WIjW nmqeFIPtElh GnX SiqulUDALyw7LozHM/tdveuw5PlfsAWjvMBtRQYiqnTyKgaBQAh QQJHgABACwAAAAADwAPAAACOYw9mceRAuFiI1p5qnhbbtSF3OB cplQpqrqlADC88Ju6M023G86nZRzD Uot2SiDUmAomsik4VA1CgAh QQJHgABACwAAAAADwAPAAACOow9mceRAuFiI1p5qnhSD7RJYfh p1/koqrpVAwC8sOy6MxzP7Xb3rsOT5X7AFo7zAbUUGIqp08ioGgUA IfkECR4AAQAsAAAAAA8ADwAAAjqMPZnHkQLhYkM8WcfJ0nbtRK KoVeNpZcqqpBYADHAMqy9d166M41ko49F odTsAiqyJI1LZNJwrBoFACH5BAkeAAEALAAAAAAPAA8AAAI6jD 2Zx5EC4WIjWnmqeFIPtElh GnX SiqulUDALyw7LozHM/tdveuw5PlfsAWjvMBtRQYiqnTyKgaBQAh QQJHgABACwAAAAADwAPAAACOow9mceRAuFiQzxZx8nSdu1Eoqh V42llyqqkFgAMcAyrL13XrozjWSjj0X6h1OwCKrIkjUtk0nCsG gUAIfkECR4AAQAsAAAAAA8ADwAAAjqMPZnHkQLhYiNaeap4Ug 0SWH4adf5KKq6VQMAvLDsujMcz 12967Dk V wBaO8wG1FBiKqdPIqBoFADs=

HoboHarry
01-08-2019, 12:44 PM
As far as I recall, the Red Star and Steaua finals would easily make it into the top five worst ever European Cup finals. They were dismal borefests, all about negativity and defence.

It is a bit like the Betfred. We can go out and play a resolute league two side who are determined and up for it and we huff and puff and probably come through. The real interest is when we have to go up to Aberdeen on a Wednesday night, or play Celtic at Hampden in the semis.

If you look at the history of European success, the big teams always dominated and still do. The supposedly lesser teams came through every once so often and still do.

I will watch Juve versus Athletico if I’m not prioritising something else. I won’t watch Juve versus poor old Brondby unless I really don’t have anything else I can do. That’s reality and it is not UEFA’s fault, they are merely responding to what consumers want.
I watched the Red Star Final with an American colleague (football/soccer fanatic to this day) in a far flung corner of the world and his perspective was completely different to mine. He thought Red Star were defensively fantastic and enjoyed the game. To me it was like watching paint dry....

Wee Effen Bee
01-08-2019, 01:53 PM
See Villa have signed a player called Marvellous. That means they now have a Marvellous and a Super in the team. Who next?

They used to have Gareth BARRY! That would be some team!

Marvellous - Super - Barry

jgl07
01-08-2019, 02:17 PM
I watched the Red Star Final with an American colleague (football/soccer fanatic to this day) in a far flung corner of the world and his perspective was completely different to mine. He thought Red Star were defensively fantastic and enjoyed the game. To me it was like watching paint dry....

I watched that match when I was in the Camargue, which was definitely Marseilles territory.

At the time Bernard Tapie was Olympic de Marseilles President and allegedly indulged in match fixing. Marseilles were stripped of their French title, although not their Champions League title won in 1993 with Franck Sauzee in the team. They were relegated to Ligue 2 for this, came up and were relegated again for financial issues.

This era was not the finest hour for European Football.

Stevie Reid
01-08-2019, 03:17 PM
I watched that match when I was in the Camargue, which was definitely Marseilles territory.

At the time Bernard Tapie was Olympic de Marseilles President and allegedly indulged in match fixing. Marseilles were stripped of their French title, although not their Champions League title won in 1993 with Franck Sauzee in the team. They were relegated to Ligue 2 for this, came up and were relegated again for financial issues.

This era was not the finest hour for European Football.

That's how Tony Cascarino ended up at Marseille, IIRC.

Hibbyradge
01-08-2019, 03:24 PM
They used to have Gareth BARRY! That would be some team!

Marvellous - Super - Barry

😂😂👍