Hsl

[Baldy Foghorn]

HSL can't buy any more shares are there are none available.

Is a change of articles of association needed, maybe rebrand stating donations go into playing squad?

[hibbydad]

HSL can't buy any more shares are there are none available.

Is a change of articles of association needed, maybe rebrand stating donations go into playing squad?
Did that come out at the meeting tonight Baldy

[Baldy Foghorn]

Did that come out at the meeting tonight Baldy

Yes, shareholding diluted, no new shares can be bought

[Pagan Hibernia]

Sooner Official HSL comes on to give us a full indication on where we stand with percentages and the rest of it the better

[tamig]

HSL can't buy any more shares are there are none available.

Is a change of articles of association needed, maybe rebrand stating donations go into playing squad?

I’m sure Jim will be on to tell us soon enough. Has he met Ron yet?

[kevinc]

Yes, shareholding diluted, no new shares can be bought
HSL shareholding diluted?

[hibbydad]

That is disappointing Baldy I really believe the way forward would be to allow more supporters to buy shares in the club

[Baldy Foghorn]

I’m sure Jim will be on to tell us soon enough. Has he met Ron yet?

Ron said they met on Friday?

[The 90+2]

Crap news.

[Baldy Foghorn]

That is disappointing Baldy I really believe the way forward would be to allow more supporters to buy shares in the club

Not possible at this juncture unless a new share issue occurs?

[Baldy Foghorn]

HSL shareholding diluted?

Unless it's normal shareholders? Either way the fans own less % now than pre takeover

[Baldy Foghorn]

HSL mandate/article of association was to collect monies to buy shares. Now no shares available do we keep donating for playing budget?

[kevinc]

Unless it's normal shareholders? Either way the fans own less % now than pre takeover

I heard what he said, down from around 37% to around 33% but never picked up on the bit where it was stated that HSL shares were diluted/reduced.

[GreenCastle]

I think a rebranding would make sense - clean slate which I feel would get more fans involved.

[tamig]

HSL mandate/article of association was to collect monies to buy shares. Now no shares available do we keep donating for playing budget?

The money was going there anyway. Like I said, we’ll need to await Jim’s announcement.

[CapitalGreen]

I heard what he said, down from around 37% to around 33% but never picked up on the bit where it was stated that HSL shares were diluted/reduced.

The number of shares HSL hold remains the same, however the total number of shares issued has increased.

Therefore HSL now has a lower % of the total shares.

[hibbydad]

Obviously diluted we need as many shares in supporters hands as possible including HSL I feel this is very disappointing

[kevinc]

The number of shares HSL hold remains the same, however the total number of shares issued has increased.

Therefore HSL now has a lower % of the total shares.

Thanks.

[HH81]

HSL mandate/article of association was to collect monies to buy shares. Now no shares available do we keep donating for playing budget?

Yes. I will anyway.

[Since452]

Was never about fan ownership for me. Not really bothered about that. Just wanted to contribute to the player budget.

[Hibeesforever]

Rebranding of HSl and maybe offer items more than just shares to entice donations to the playing budget. Shop discounts, for example.

[hibbydad]

Since452 it was all about having a decent percentage of shares to block a hostile takeover not total ownership

[Baldy Foghorn]

Since452 it was all about having a decent percentage of shares to block a hostile takeover not total ownership

We still have 32/33% as long as the status quo remains. That would be enough to block anything.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Obviously diluted we need as many shares in supporters hands as possible including HSL I feel this is very disappointing

agree. A bit disheartened tonight if I’m honest. Will have to think very carefully on whether or not to continue my donations. I signed up for a shareholding vehicle for supporters to safeguard the club for future generations. Not a football manager’s budget (though that was a nice bonus).

[Pagan Hibernia]

We still have 32/33% as long as the status quo remains. That would be enough to block anything.

until we know who the large blocks held by nominee holdings are then we can’t trust them not to sell out

[Carheenlea]

agree. A bit disheartened tonight if I’m honest. Will have to think very carefully on whether or not to continue my donations. I signed up for a shareholding vehicle for supporters to safeguard the club for future generations. Not a football manager’s budget (though that was a nice bonus).

Exactly the same as my thoughts :agree:

[madhatter]

This requires statements from the club and HSL tbh. Those fans that viewed HSL as safeguarding the club will have some fear over this. I'll be considering whether I keep donating. Not in anyway Jim's fault but HSL and the clubs collaboration with HSL has been poor at best. I actually think we've done well with donations considering there were no appreciations spoken about until recently which could be scrapped because of this - kit with names on it.

People possibly sacrificed something in their lives to help the club, I remember the whole thing about avoiding a coffee or two every month. Moving the goalposts on some key aspects such as fan ownership (safeguarding) should be communicated in advance or as swiftly as possible.

[lord bunberry]

I made this point as soon as the takeover was announced. It was obvious to me that the current HSL model was dead in the water. Farmer was willing to dilute his share, but there was no way the new guy would pay all that money and just give a large share of it up for no personal gain. I hope HSL continues as a managers fund as I would be happy to still keep up the donations for that.

[Power]

More still to be updated in this space from the club and HSL.

Collectively we’re at 33% - that’s a comfort and protection.

Supporter participation is very good and the intent is great.

Ron did say he was open to talks on this down the line - a supporter owned club or a club that has supporter ownership but has a majority shareholder. Big challenges (financial liability and decision-making) to being a supporter owned club.


More to come on this and looking forward to hearing it.

[James Stephen]

I dont want to judge until more is known, but it does seem both inevitable and a touch disappointing.

HSL is a noble idea, and I am a member as is my son, but it has always struggled and this seems like it's death knell.

Personally though, I would continue to support some form of funding for the club.

[Billy Whizz]

Was never about fan ownership for me. Not really bothered about that. Just wanted to contribute to the player budget.

Me too, never want fan ownership

[GreenCastle]

Rebranding of HSl and maybe offer items more than just shares to entice donations to the playing budget. Shop discounts, for example.

Yup.

Clean slate.

Hibs membership and money goes to.. any of 1 of the 5 areas or all of them.

Community
Girls and Women’s team
Boys Academy
1st Team
Stadium improvements

[Pretty Boy]

Maybe the time is right to rebeand HSL as a members scheme with a few added incentives for joining and a continued guarantee that money still goes directly to the manager. I'd assume if the money is no longer simply buying shares there may be tax implications to a body handing money over to the club though.

It may also be an idea for HSL to try and encourage individual shareholders to gift them a handful of their shares to try and get them to a level of influence. How likely that is though I don't know.

[kevinc]

Yup.

Clean slate.

Hibs membership and money goes to.. any of 1 of the 5 areas or all of them.

Community
Girls and Women’s team
Boys Academy
1st Team
Stadium improvements

I suspect that RG would prefer the HSL contributions to go towards developing the facilities at East Mains.

[James Stephen]

Yup.

Clean slate.

Hibs membership and money goes to.. any of 1 of the 5 areas or all of them.

Community
Girls and Women’s team
Boys Academy
1st Team
Stadium improvements

No chance. Money has to go to the 1st team, frankly I dont see many donating to Hibs to go towards 'community' or the women's team.

Just my take.

[Stuart93]

I suspect that RG would prefer the HSL contributions to go towards developing the facilities at East Mains.

That’s where my donation would probably stop

[hibbydad]

More still to be updated in this space from the club and HSL.

Collectively we’re at 33% - that’s a comfort and protection.

Supporter participation is very good and the intent is great.

Ron did say he was open to talks on this down the line - a supporter owned club or a club that has supporter ownership but has a majority shareholder. Big challenges (financial liability and decision-making) to being a supporter owned club.


More to come on this and looking forward to hearing it.
Power I agree with a lot of that but there is a need to maintain a high percentage of the share capital in supporters names without it it being the majority shareholding. I would hope he would call a shareholders meeting outwith the agm to explain his plans

[madhatter]

I don't think fan ownership was ever most fans intention/wish. However, HSL could've given us a collective voice on club matters, primarily on anything thay may threaten the club. As fans we have 33% but not under one umbrella which presents problems when it comes to communicating succinctly what we want for the club. It would end up a bit like a Tory leadership debate on a lot of things. Sad that we've potentially lost a means to have that collective voice. Before anybody says it - supporter reps don't provide what I'm talking about.

[hibbydad]

I don't think fan ownership was ever most fans intention/wish. However, HSL could've given us a collective voice on club matters, primarily on anything thay may threaten the club. As fans we have 33% but not under one umbrella which presents problems when it comes to communicating succinctly what we want for the club. It would end up a bit like a Tory leadership debate on a lot of things. Sad that we've potentially lost a means to have that collective voice. Before anybody says it - supporter reps don't provide what I'm talking about.
Very good post Mad Hatter

[Pagan Hibernia]

Yup.

Clean slate.

Hibs membership and money goes to.. any of 1 of the 5 areas or all of them.

Community
Girls and Women’s team
Boys Academy
1st Team
Stadium improvements

people can set up a direct debit to the Hibernian Community Foundation as it is

[Eyrie]

I'll wait until there is an announcement from HSL about what their plans are, but I don't expect anything immediately as its board will need to meet to review its options first and preferably put those options to the members for us to vote on.

I'll keep paying in for now.

[DaveF]

That’s where my donation would probably stop

Mine too. I don't mind the extra I contribute going to the playing budget but I'm not subsidising yet more infrastructure.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I suspect that RG would prefer the HSL contributions to go towards developing the facilities at East Mains.

Not sure that would sit well with me. So the fans are expected to stump up on top of their season tickets and everything else for improved facilities so that Ron Gordon can have the pleasure of owning a more valuable football club?

I was happy to do it before but we were getting shares in return. I’m not sure I’m happy to do it anymore.

[madhatter]

The term 'managers budget' really needs clarification, now more than ever. What does that actually mean...1st team budget, youth budget, heart rate monitors, a new squat rack in the gym...
I'm being a little silly with my examples but for all I know this money might be going into things that I simply couldn't fathom. A link to the footballing staff at the club could be the deciding factor of what qualifies. I'll be honest I donated being relatively unaware of how the money was being spent. I read the sales pitch and thought why not...

Recent developments make me think if Ron has put a halt to HSL shares then he needs to continue putting money into the club himself. he cannot expect fans to pay for season tickets, food, shirts, scarves etc. and pay for a monthly rate to improve the squad. That's just in my opinion. If you exterminate hope of fan ownership or share issue then the buck stops with you. He is the owner.

[OfficialHSL]

Ron said they met on Friday?

Baldy Foghorn

As you know I was not at the meeting this evening and I am wondering if you perhaps misheard Ron, as this is not correct.

I understand that following last weeks announcement Ron and his family enjoyed the rest of the week in London following a very busy few weeks leading up to the announcement and that is why we were unable to meet until this week.

We will be writing to our Members tomorrow with a very positive update.

In the meantime could I echo Ron's comments and just ask for a little patience and please allow us just a little time to continue our discussions.


Jim Adie

[greenginger]

That is disappointing Baldy I really believe the way forward would be to allow more supporters to buy shares in the club


Was as it said that there was no opportunity to buy any shares from the Nominee company’s share holdings ?

[Pagan Hibernia]

Recent developments make me think if Ron has put a halt to HSL shares then he needs to continue putting money into the club himself. he cannot expect fans to pay for season tickets, food, shirts, scarves etc. and pay for a monthly rate to improve the squad. That's just in my opinion. If you exterminate hope of fan ownership or share issue then the buck stops with you. He is the owner.

My thoughts exactly but expressed more eloquently than I was capable of

[CapitalGreen]

The term 'managers budget' really needs clarification, now more than ever. What does that actually mean...1st team budget, youth budget, heart rate monitors, a new squat rack in the gym...
I'm being a little silly with my examples but for all I know this money might be going into things that I simply couldn't fathom. A link to the footballing staff at the club could be the deciding factor of what qualifies. I'll be honest I donated being relatively unaware of how the money was being spent. I read the sales pitch and thought why not...

Recent developments make me think if Ron has put a halt to HSL shares then he needs to continue putting money into the club himself. he cannot expect fans to pay for season tickets, food, shirts, scarves etc. and pay for a monthly rate to improve the squad. That's just in my opinion. If you exterminate hope of fan ownership or share issue then the buck stops with you. He is the owner.

In putting “a halt to HSL shares” he put £3.5m into the club

[Pagan Hibernia]

Baldy Foghorn

As you know I was not at the meeting this evening and I am wondering if you perhaps misheard Ron, as this is not correct.

I understand that following last weeks announcement Ron and his family enjoyed the rest of the week in London following a very busy few weeks leading up to the announcement and that is why we were unable to meet until this week.

We will be writing to our Members tomorrow with a very positive update.

In the meantime could I echo Ron's comments and just ask for a little patience and please allow us just a little time to continue our discussions.


Jim Adie

Thanks Jim. I’ll wait for tomorrow’s message.

[jacomo]

More still to be updated in this space from the club and HSL.

Collectively we’re at 33% - that’s a comfort and protection.

Supporter participation is very good and the intent is great.

Ron did say he was open to talks on this down the line - a supporter owned club or a club that has supporter ownership but has a majority shareholder. Big challenges (financial liability and decision-making) to being a supporter owned club.


More to come on this and looking forward to hearing it.


I am not having a go at you personally here, but I am again questioning the role of fan reps on the board if you do not know what the immediate future of HSL is following the takeover.

Yes, contributors were paying in to support the playing budget, but STF was gifting shares in the club in return and the whole project was explicitly about fan ownership.

If that has now changed then the basis on which HSL is collecting contributions is now incorrect.

It needs clearing up asap.

[kevinc]

Was as it said that there was no opportunity to buy any shares from the Nominee company’s share holdings ?
That is correct, I think the statement was “there is no more equity available for HSL (or anyone else)to buy” from Ron’s 67%.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Baldy Foghorn

As you know I was not at the meeting this evening and I am wondering if you perhaps misheard Ron, as this is not correct.

I understand that following last weeks announcement Ron and his family enjoyed the rest of the week in London following a very busy few weeks leading up to the announcement and that is why we were unable to meet until this week.

We will be writing to our Members tomorrow with a very positive update.

In the meantime could I echo Ron's comments and just ask for a little patience and please allow us just a little time to continue our discussions.


Jim Adie

Apologies Jim, thought he said you met Friday.

Hopefully you can discuss a re-brand and we can invest for other things

[The Harp Awakes]

This requires statements from the club and HSL tbh. Those fans that viewed HSL as safeguarding the club will have some fear over this. I'll be considering whether I keep donating. Not in anyway Jim's fault but HSL and the clubs collaboration with HSL has been poor at best. I actually think we've done well with donations considering there were no appreciations spoken about until recently which could be scrapped because of this - kit with names on it.

People possibly sacrificed something in their lives to help the club, I remember the whole thing about avoiding a coffee or two every month. Moving the goalposts on some key aspects such as fan ownership (safeguarding) should be communicated in advance or as swiftly as possible.

I am not an HSL member or contributor, but I agree with you that there should be a statement from the Club about HSL and the future. Leanne up to now has been vociferous of her backing of HSL, but clearly the arrival of a new owner has turned the original strategy on its head. What is the aim of HSL now and what is the Club's postion? Doesn't sound as if there has been any forethought given to this before the transaction going through, otherwise there would have been an announcement.

[oneone73]

I am not an HSL member or contributor, but I agree with you that there should be a statement on the Club about HSL and the future. Leanne up to now has been vociferous of her backing of HSL, but clearly the arrival has turned the original strategy on its head. What is the aim of HSL now and what is the Club's postion? Doesn't sound as if there has been any forethought given to this before the transaction going through, otherwise there would have been an announcement.

Despite Leeann being a director of HSL. Disappointing.

[madhatter]

In putting “a halt to HSL shares” he put £3.5m into the club

Yes. I don't know how that translates into we continue to pay a monthly fee for nothing. No shares.

This is still hypothetical until we know but imagine Man City fans being asked to pay a monthly subscription to improve the playing budget. It's an exaggerated example but still has its purpose. HSL was rightly initially advertised as a mechanism to help fund the betterment of the club through sporting achievement (better players etc.). It was also put across with sacrifice a coffee here and there and put some money a side for HSL each month. For shares in the club that's fine, for safeguarding the club that's fine. It isn't so fine when you've just had a millionaire buy over your club though. I think most people deserve their coffees again!

Clarification is needed.

[SquashedFrogg]

Me too, never want fan ownership

Fan ownership is a myth. Our money helps supplement budgets, but we have no equity in the club.

[Power]

I am not having a go at you personally here, but I am again questioning the role of fan reps on the board if you do not know what the immediate future of HSL is following the takeover.

Yes, contributors were paying in to support the playing budget, but STF was gifting shares in the club in return and the whole project was explicitly about fan ownership.

If that has now changed then the basis on which HSL is collecting contributions is now incorrect.

It needs clearing up asap.

None taken. HSL and the club will have that covered ✅

[Not In The Know]

Was never about fan ownership for me. Not really bothered about that. Just wanted to contribute to the player budget.

Exactly the same for me. We still need to keep it going in another form (working title managers war chest) to make sure Ron’s investment doesn’t just keep us on level terms with them and the sheep.

[tamig]

Baldy Foghorn

As you know I was not at the meeting this evening and I am wondering if you perhaps misheard Ron, as this is not correct.

I understand that following last weeks announcement Ron and his family enjoyed the rest of the week in London following a very busy few weeks leading up to the announcement and that is why we were unable to meet until this week.

We will be writing to our Members tomorrow with a very positive update.

In the meantime could I echo Ron's comments and just ask for a little patience and please allow us just a little time to continue our discussions.


Jim Adie
Look forward to reading it Jim. Will be good to get some clarification. Thanks.

[madhatter]

Clarification on what Ron's investment means from a footballing perspective is key as well. Imagine it all went to infrastructure...Petrie!

Hard sell asking fans to keep putting money into the club to finance player budget at the same time as infrastructure improvements.

[tamig]

Yes. I don't know how that translates into we continue to pay a monthly fee for nothing. No shares.

This is still hypothetical until we know but imagine Man City fans being asked to pay a monthly subscription to improve the playing budget. It's an exaggerated example but still has its purpose. HSL was rightly initially advertised as a mechanism to help fund the betterment of the club through sporting achievement (better players etc.). It was also put across with sacrifice a coffee here and there and put some money a side for HSL each month. For shares in the club that's fine, for safeguarding the club that's fine. It isn't so fine when you've just had a millionaire buy over your club though. I think most people deserve their coffees again!

Clarification is needed.
So just because there’s been a change of ownership you would be prepared to stop contributing a few quid each month even if you knew the cash was going directly towards the playing budget?

[Rocky]

I'd like to think that a good way forward would be some kind of rights issue to which HSL (and all shareholders, including Ron) could subscribe. That way each shareholder would have the opportunity to retain their holdings at the same percentage level by putting in more cash. Eg if Ron wanted to put in £2m personally, he could make £3m of shares available via a rights issue. If HSL and the other individual / nominee shareholders stump up £1m the status quo in terms of percentage holdings remains. If not, Ron's ownership percentage increases. Logistically it might be a bit tricky to fund the HSL portion of the subscription through monthly DDs rather than a lump sum payment but I'm sure it must be possible.

[hibbydad]

I'd like to think that a good way forward would be some kind of rights issue to which HSL (and all shareholders, including Ron) could subscribe. That way each shareholder would have the opportunity to retain their holdings at the same percentage level by putting in more cash. Eg if Ron wanted to put in £2m personally, he could make £3m of shares available via a rights issue. If HSL and the other individual / nominee shareholders stump up £1m the status quo in terms of percentage holdings remains. If not, Ron's ownership percentage increases. Logistically it might be a bit tricky to fund the HSL portion of the subscription through monthly DDs rather than a lump sum payment but I'm sure it must be possible.
Good post Rocky the HSL part could be a problem but the rest of us could take up the rights issue

[madhatter]

So just because there’s been a change of ownership you would be prepared to stop contributing a few quid each month even if you knew the cash was going directly towards the playing budget?

Potentially yes. What does playing budget truly mean? We are making an investment in our own way. I'm sure any investment made by Ron gets better substance than buzzwords. He'll know where his money is going exactly. If we are making donations and no longer get any shares or similar in return then we should get transparency on what the funds have been spent on. The change in model here should not be underestimated (if there is indeed one).

we shall find out when Jim has further news. Club need to up their game if HSL are remaining, need to start creating/backing funding campaigns with rewards that do not hugely dilute raised funds etc.

[hibee_nation]

I'd like to think that a good way forward would be some kind of rights issue to which HSL (and all shareholders, including Ron) could subscribe. That way each shareholder would have the opportunity to retain their holdings at the same percentage level by putting in more cash. Eg if Ron wanted to put in £2m personally, he could make £3m of shares available via a rights issue. If HSL and the other individual / nominee shareholders stump up £1m the status quo in terms of percentage holdings remains. If not, Ron's ownership percentage increases. Logistically it might be a bit tricky to fund the HSL portion of the subscription through monthly DDs rather than a lump sum payment but I'm sure it must be possible.

No chance next thing you know we are diluted below 25% and in the lap of the gods again.

[NAE NOOKIE]

agree. A bit disheartened tonight if I’m honest. Will have to think very carefully on whether or not to continue my donations. I signed up for a shareholding vehicle for supporters to safeguard the club for future generations. Not a football manager’s budget (though that was a nice bonus).

This is exactly where I stand as well. I will seriously have to consider what I do now … if HSL had been launched solely as a way to put money into Hibs playing budget, or simply to help fund the club in all areas I would probably have joined anyway. But I was enthused by the thought of the club's supporters having a blocking vote and now that has changed … I cant help feeling let down by this to be honest insomuch as during the transfer of ownership STF and RP were clearly unable to persuade the new owner to continue with the sale of shares at least until HSL had 26%.

I understand from a post above that 33% of the total share issue is in the hands of supporters … but obviously spread amongst thousands of individuals and a few syndicates? that we know nothing about … We need to find a way to ensure that it ever came to the crunch all of these different entities are of a like mind when it comes to the protection and preservation of our club.

[Purple & Green]

HSL can't buy any more shares are there are none available.

Is a change of articles of association needed, maybe rebrand stating donations go into playing squad?

Maybe a place on the board as a gesture of goodwill?

[Hibbyradge]

Unless it's a Ponzi scheme, I'll keep donating.

PS What's a Ponzi scheme.

[1875STEVE]

Il still be donating.

Hopefully it's rebranded as a boost the managers fund set-up

I was fine with it as it was, i would really liked to have seen it get to 25%

However ron has pumped in millions, doing what HSL couldn't.

Im fine with that, especially as fans we have 33% combined. if it was ever needed im 99.9% positive every fan would vote the same way

[Col2]

HSL have said they will statement on Thursday so let’s see what comes out.

Expectations are that it’s a positive statement so fingers crossed.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Whether you are cool with this situation or not I think everybody must agree that we need some clarification as to what has gone on here and in my opinion this is the first test of whether or not Ronald Gordon will be prepared to honestly and openly engage with the clubs supporters.

It doesn't matter what the situation is now, the sale of shares in this football club was advertised by it as an opportunity for fans to have a 51% stake in the club, or at worst a blocking vote, and the presumption must be that fans bought shares and joined HSL on that premise … the fact that most probably didn't is utterly immaterial ... that's what it was sold to us as by Hibernian football club and now after spending hundreds, in some cases thousand, of pounds that is not what we are getting.

Just because the club has now been sold that does not in my view absolve its new owner from a responsibility to inform the clubs supporters as to why he has put a stop to the availability of shares, effectively turning what we were initially told into a mistruth … especially when the club itself helped to set up the main share purchasing group, encouraged participation in it, and even got the clubs players and manager to sign up to it. Not to mention that the CEO of the club AFAIK still has a place on the committee of that body.

Its not enough in my opinion for Ronald Gordon to say its a simple matter of him wanting total control of the club, he also has to say why one day fans having a say in the club was a good idea and now in his opinion it isn't.

In view of the fact that it is 100% certain that Hibs and Ronald Gordon will be extremely keen to see HSL continue under a different guise as a simple vehicle for people who love and care for this club to give it extra voluntary funding, its all the more incumbent on him and the club to explain this change of direction and to issue some sort of apology to the people who bought shares thinking it would give them if not a say in the club they love then at least the opportunity to safeguard it only to find out years and a lot of money later that this will not be the case.

I do not think that this is in any way an unreasonable request and if Mr Gordon thinks it is perhaps he doesn't know as much about the trials and tribulations of owning a football club as he thinks he did.

[Earlydelivery]

Spoke to James Adie on Monday saying nothing changing whatsoever with contributing.

[Robbo6-2]

I find it strange that there was no clear announcement on Day 1 regarding the HSL shares. If negotiations took as long as was stated then surely you would expect the topic of HSL would be high on the agenda.

By the sounds of things HSL werent even in the know regarding the sale of the club. Was that not one of the reasons why this was started to ensure the fans had a say in any new ownership?

I must of paid in between 500-1000 into HSL over the last few years and will continue to do so as long as we get a clear confirmation of what the money is being used for.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Spoke to James Adie on Monday saying nothing changing whatsoever with contributing.

That's wrong. Their constitution was to collect money to purchase shares. That has now changed. They have to change their articles of assiciation/mandate

[derekduval]

Would have been good if Tom farmer had created enough shares and kept them separate for HSL to buy ( or even gifted them to us although I appreciate he’s done enough) so that we reached our 26% or whatever our target was as part of the deal with Ron.

Also it doesn’t matter where our future donations go as the club can just reduce the percentage going to the playing budget as they know we will make it up and would have no idea if it actually increases it or allows them to reduce what the club puts in and direct the funds elsewhere???

[Dmas]

I find it strange that there was no clear announcement on Day 1 regarding the HSL shares. If negotiations took as long as was stated then surely you would expect the topic of HSL would be high on the agenda.

By the sounds of things HSL werent even in the know regarding the sale of the club. Was that not one of the reasons why this was started to ensure the fans had a say in any new ownership?

I must of paid in between 500-1000 into HSL over the last few years and will continue to do so as long as we get a clear confirmation of what the money is being used for.

HSL was set up and organised to dilute STF’s shareholding in the club it was an agreement between us and him, I’m surprised it’s taken this long for people to realise that deal expired the second Ron Gordon bought him out.

The only thing that requires answers is why it has taken HSL and Hibs this long to communicate with the fans who have been putting money in, it’s ridiculous to let speculation run rife on this issue at a time where we should all be gearing up for the big kick off, it also gives credibility to the moon howlers currently swiping away at the club over Ponzi schemes and loan facilities.

I haven’t signed up yet, but the strip push had tempted me but until I hear from HSL I’l be holding off, the communications from the club has improved tenfold over the years I really Hope now we’re not taking 3 steps back on that front

[CentreLine]

I imagine I am preachings to the converted here but it seems to me that our broader fan base has missed the bus as far as HSL is concerned. Various excuses, from misplaced distrust of STF, a pantomime like dislike of Rod Petrie and every conceivable made up objection. All the way through to stories of Ponzi scheme, have led to enough objectors to leave us short of the intended target that would have left us safe from aggressive takeover in the future. I firmly believe that STF has done all he can to pass us on to a safe pair of hands but what next?

We as fans have nobody to blame but ourselves. STF made enough new shares available for us to dilute his holding and to own a controlling interest of 51% of our club. But we blew it big style. We failed to come up to the mark. Nobody lives forever and STF quite simply had to move on. The new owner has different ideas on how the fans can contribute. The way I see it is that we can miss a new opportunity to take our club forward in a big way or we can get behind his vision and buy in to HSL for a new and forward looking future.

There is a new bus with a new destination waiting for us to climb aboard. Maybe those of us that can afford that little bit extra a month need to take a bit of a leap of faith and just get on board to see where it takes us. And let’s not forget there are many who do not have any more to give, “we are all Hibs” and we can all still enjoy the ride.

[Not In The Know]

I imagine I am preachings to the converted here but it seems to me that our broader fan base has missed the bus as far as HSL is concerned. Various excuses, from misplaced distrust of STF, a pantomime like dislike of Rod Petrie and every conceivable made up objection. All the way through to stories of Ponzi scheme, have led to enough objectors to leave us short of the intended target that would have left us safe from aggressive takeover in the future. I firmly believe that STF has done all he can to pass us on to a safe pair of hands but what next?

We as fans have nobody to blame but ourselves. STF made enough new shares available for us to dilute his holding and to own a controlling interest of 51% of our club. But we blew it big style. We failed to come up to the mark. Nobody lives forever and STF quite simply had to move on. The new owner has different ideas on how the fans can contribute. The way I see it is that we can miss a new opportunity to take our club forward in a big way or we can get behind his vision and buy in to HSL for a new and forward looking future.

There is a new bus with a new destination waiting for us to climb aboard. Maybe those of us that can afford that little bit extra a month need to take a bit of a leap of faith and just get on board to see where it takes us. And let’s not forget there are many who do not have any more to give, “we are all Hibs” and we can all still enjoy the ride.

Great post. I’m going to keep my payments going. Anything that helps us finish as high up the table as possible is good for me.

[superfurryhibby]

Not impressed by the dilution of shares. I suspect people may have had even less enthusiasm for buying shares/contributing to HSL if this had been highlighted as an inevitability the moment the club was sold.

For me any future fan based scheme to raise funds must come with cast iron guarantee that monies raised would go directly to the playing budget. Infrastructure has dominated the clubs finances for a long time, I’m not interested in funding it, I want a decent team on the pitch.

[Tyler Durden]

I suspect that RG would prefer the HSL contributions to go towards developing the facilities at East Mains.

What is that based on? Considering RG talked openly on day 1 about improving those facilities via his new investment.

[Just Alf]

Il still be donating.

Hopefully it's rebranded as a boost the managers fund set-up

I was fine with it as it was, i would really liked to have seen it get to 25%

However ron has pumped in millions, doing what HSL couldn't.

Im fine with that, especially as fans we have 33% combined. if it was ever needed im 99.9% positive every fan would vote the same wayThis is almost exactly how I see it, only reservation being the nominee holdings due to the questions around the reason they were being bought.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[crash]

Not impressed by the dilution of shares. I suspect people may have had even less enthusiasm for buying shares/contributing to HSL if this had been highlighted as an inevitability the moment the club was sold.

For me any future fan based scheme to raise funds must come with cast iron guarantee that monies raised would go directly to the playing budget. Infrastructure has dominated the clubs finances for a long time, I’m not interested in funding it, I want a decent team on the pitch.
What are your reasons for being unimpressed with share dilution.

[kevinc]

What is that based on? Considering RG talked openly on day 1 about improving those facilities via his new investment.

Based on a comment that he made at a discussion with some HSA members last night, he spoke openly about a variety of topics including the club now being debt free, his values, how privileged he feels to be the servant to/custodian of the club, HSL contributions, developing plans over the next 30/90 days, improved communications, having the best Academy Facility we could have and many other topics. He was pretty clear that whilst he would invest in the Academy he would be looking for support from the fans in terms of a financial contribution.

[FilipinoHibs]

No chance next thing you know we are diluted below 25% and in the lap of the gods again.
If everybody takes up their rights, the percentage holdings will be unchanged.

Probably, best course of action is agree with Ron a number of new shares that can be issued and that can be taken up by HSL. Ron will want a floor on what his holding falls to so that he effectively controls and runs and makes the decisions about the club.

[tamig]

I imagine I am preachings to the converted here but it seems to me that our broader fan base has missed the bus as far as HSL is concerned. Various excuses, from misplaced distrust of STF, a pantomime like dislike of Rod Petrie and every conceivable made up objection. All the way through to stories of Ponzi scheme, have led to enough objectors to leave us short of the intended target that would have left us safe from aggressive takeover in the future. I firmly believe that STF has done all he can to pass us on to a safe pair of hands but what next?

We as fans have nobody to blame but ourselves. STF made enough new shares available for us to dilute his holding and to own a controlling interest of 51% of our club. But we blew it big style. We failed to come up to the mark. Nobody lives forever and STF quite simply had to move on. The new owner has different ideas on how the fans can contribute. The way I see it is that we can miss a new opportunity to take our club forward in a big way or we can get behind his vision and buy in to HSL for a new and forward looking future.

There is a new bus with a new destination waiting for us to climb aboard. Maybe those of us that can afford that little bit extra a month need to take a bit of a leap of faith and just get on board to see where it takes us. And let’s not forget there are many who do not have any more to give, “we are all Hibs” and we can all still enjoy the ride.

Couldn’t agree more. My contributions will continue and it’s disappointing to see so much negativity on this thread. Let’s just wait for HSLs comm coming out before speculating all sorts of nonsense. Jim said last night the message would be positive - maybe Ron has gifted HSL enough shares to takes us above the magic number 😀

[Stuart93]

Based on a comment that he made at a discussion with some HSA members last night, he spoke openly about a variety of topics including the club now being debt free, his values, how privileged he feels to be the servant to/custodian of the club, HSL contributions, developing plans over the next 30/90 days, improved communications, having the best Academy Facility we could have and many other topics. He was pretty clear that whilst he would invest in the Academy he would be looking for support from the fans in terms of a financial contribution.

We already support the club financially. Would be a little cheeky to ask supporters to dig even deeper for an academy that is part of his vision for the club. Some supporters are fed up of cash getting ploughed into infrastructure

[Heisenberg]

HSL money going into this new facility instead of player budget going forwards then?

[tamig]

HSL money going into this new facility instead of player budget going forwards then?

There’s no hard evidence of that at all. Only one posters interpretation. Lets wait for the statement.

[Tyler Durden]

There’s no hard evidence of that at all. Only one posters interpretation. Lets wait for the statement.

100%.

[Tyler Durden]

Based on a comment that he made at a discussion with some HSA members last night, he spoke openly about a variety of topics including the club now being debt free, his values, how privileged he feels to be the servant to/custodian of the club, HSL contributions, developing plans over the next 30/90 days, improved communications, having the best Academy Facility we could have and many other topics. He was pretty clear that whilst he would invest in the Academy he would be looking for support from the fans in terms of a financial contribution.

Was it explicit that the contribution from fans should be over and above attending games and buying merch?

Not trying to interrogate you here, just conscious that people can come away from a meeting with different interpretations of what was said/meant :aok:

[HFC93]

Probably sensible to wait for an official update from HSL instead of speculating.

[CentreLine]

Not impressed by the dilution of shares. I suspect people may have had even less enthusiasm for buying shares/contributing to HSL if this had been highlighted as an inevitability the moment the club was sold.

For me any future fan based scheme to raise funds must come with cast iron guarantee that monies raised would go directly to the playing budget. Infrastructure has dominated the clubs finances for a long time, I’m not interested in funding it, I want a decent team on the pitch.

The thing is it was not inevitable. If we, the supporters, had taken up the offer we would have owned 51% of the club. We chose not to do that and so the shares were there for an outside bidder, in this case Ron Gordon. The only inevitable thing was that STF would have to move on one day. We were offered the opportunity to be in control of how that happened but we chose not to accept that offer in sufficient numbers. The negativity spouted on sites like this helped to ensure that failure happened. Everyone is entitled to their view and to do what they wish with their spare cash if they have any but we cannot then complain if we did not climb on the bus at the controls.
As I said before, there is a new bus at the station with a different destination. We can now choose to climb aboard but this time we must have faith in the driver. It’s our choice. I for one want to be along for the ride and if it means subsidising people who can’t afford the ticket I am happy to do my bit. What I have more difficulty with is bringing along a small but vociferous bunch of moaners full of nothing but negativity.

[kevinc]

Was it explicit that the contribution from fans should be over and above attending games and buying merch?

Not trying to interrogate you here, just conscious that people can come away from a meeting with different interpretations of what was said/meant :aok:

No problem re your questions. He was asked directly what his ask of the fans was, his response was that our continued attendance and support, he also stated that the academy would require investment from him and the fans, no ambiguity. Possibly other attendees could provide their perspective, I felt that he was clear on the fact that he is looking for fans to make an additional financial contribution in order to deliver his vision.

[Baldy Foghorn]

No problem re your questions. He was asked directly what his ask of the fans was, his response was that our continued attendance and support, he also stated that the academy would require investment from him and the fans, no ambiguity. Possibly other attendees could provide their perspective, I felt that he was clear on the fact that he is looking for fans to make an additional financial contribution in order to deliver his vision.

My take on it also

[Golden Bear]

Ah well, here's one fan who would be happy if a separate Fund was established whereby supporters could make financial contributions which would go directly towards a Capital Project like the construction of a full size indoor pitch.

I've never had any interest in share ownership via the HSL scheme and I know I'm not alone.

[LeithMike]

I imagine I am preachings to the converted here but it seems to me that our broader fan base has missed the bus as far as HSL is concerned. Various excuses, from misplaced distrust of STF, a pantomime like dislike of Rod Petrie and every conceivable made up objection. All the way through to stories of Ponzi scheme, have led to enough objectors to leave us short of the intended target that would have left us safe from aggressive takeover in the future. I firmly believe that STF has done all he can to pass us on to a safe pair of hands but what next?

We as fans have nobody to blame but ourselves. STF made enough new shares available for us to dilute his holding and to own a controlling interest of 51% of our club. But we blew it big style. We failed to come up to the mark. Nobody lives forever and STF quite simply had to move on. The new owner has different ideas on how the fans can contribute. The way I see it is that we can miss a new opportunity to take our club forward in a big way or we can get behind his vision and buy in to HSL for a new and forward looking future.

There is a new bus with a new destination waiting for us to climb aboard. Maybe those of us that can afford that little bit extra a month need to take a bit of a leap of faith and just get on board to see where it takes us. And let’s not forget there are many who do not have any more to give, “we are all Hibs” and we can all still enjoy the ride.Good post. Looking forward to some clarity but it's not like we haven't had a long time to invest in the club on very favourable terms and the HSL directors have done all they can to encourage us to invest. Hopefully, we are still able to build the shareholding with protections that it wont be diluted below 25%. Wake up call for us all now the security blanket of STF has gone?

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[hibbymac]

No problem re your questions. He was asked directly what his ask of the fans was, his response was that our continued attendance and support, he also stated that the academy would require investment from him and the fans, no ambiguity. Possibly other attendees could provide their perspective, I felt that he was clear on the fact that he is looking for fans to make an additional financial contribution in order to deliver his vision.


My take on it also

:agree: He will put money in but will look to the support to "Pony up"

[Gordy M]

:agree: He will put money in but will look to the support to "Pony up"

I wasnt at the meeting but id assume that to mean fans 'contributing' as in buying season tickets, attending matches etc......but could be wrong.

[kevinc]

I wasnt at the meeting but id assume that to mean fans 'contributing' as in buying season tickets, attending matches etc......but could be wrong.

the 'Pony Up' statement was specific to the Academy and separate from season tickets , match attendance , merchandise etc

[matty_f]

That's wrong. Their constitution was to collect money to purchase shares. That has now changed. They have to change their articles of assiciation/mandate

That’s how I see it as well mate.

[Arch Stanton]

Not impressed by the dilution of shares. I suspect people may have had even less enthusiasm for buying shares/contributing to HSL if this had been highlighted as an inevitability the moment the club was sold.

For me any future fan based scheme to raise funds must come with cast iron guarantee that monies raised would go directly to the playing budget. Infrastructure has dominated the clubs finances for a long time, I’m not interested in funding it, I want a decent team on the pitch.

You don't seem to realise that share dilution was caused by the STF share issue. The 37% to 33% reduction in fan's current holding would have been reduced without there being a takeover (i.e. in the future when the full share issue was bought by fans).

I agree that monies raised should go to playing budget though - they would be off their trolleys to change that.

[Tyler Durden]

No problem re your questions. He was asked directly what his ask of the fans was, his response was that our continued attendance and support, he also stated that the academy would require investment from him and the fans, no ambiguity. Possibly other attendees could provide their perspective, I felt that he was clear on the fact that he is looking for fans to make an additional financial contribution in order to deliver his vision.

Thanks.

That is interesting. Seems like there will be mixed feelings on that. Possibly an opportunity for Hibs to explain more clearly how these fan contributions would be spent and what the ultimate potential benefit is to the first team. If there’s one lesson from recent years, it seems like people want things spelled out in minute detail

[Baldy Foghorn]

You don't seem to realise that share dilution was caused by the STF share issue. The 37% to 33% reduction in fan's current holding would have been reduced without there being a takeover (i.e. in the future when the full share issue was bought by fans).

I agree that monies raised should go to playing budget though - they would be off their trolleys to change that.

If fans bought share we would have had a bigger %, not a dilution

[HibeePaj]

If fans bought share we would have had a bigger %, not a dilution

I think the point he is making that ‘today’s’ 37% would be worth 33% when the full share offer had been taken up. But yes, by that point the fans would have had a larger % in total (51%?)

[Arch Stanton]

If fans bought share we would have had a bigger %, not a dilution

Incorrect - increasing shares dilutes the value of existing shares. Whoever buys them.

[Arch Stanton]

I think the point he is making that ‘today’s’ 37% would be worth 33% when the full share offer had been taken up. But yes, by that point the fans would have had a larger % in total (51%?)

Indeed, but the point I made is still valid. All this blaming RG for diluting our shares is just way off target.

[Peevemor]

I’ve read the whole thread and still confuses me.

Why STF / Hibs / LD weren’t in touch before the sale - to speak with HSL.

Could STF not have given shares to HSL to help reach target ?

HSL - where does the ££ exactly go - as another poster mentioned - is there specifics ?

Surely fans continuing to give money is a risk ? You have no idea where your ££ is going and what it’s being spent on.

Like others we already pay crazy prices in Scotland for a season ticket asking for more seems in reasonable.

I still feel HSL is never going to reach the levels it should as so many fans are sceptical or what’s happened / where money is going. This recent issue is a prime example of lack of information.

Any future schemes need to be better organised and fully transparent so fans know what’s going on and exactly what money is going towards and examples of it working.

Why don't we wait and see what HSL have to say officially today?

[Pagan Hibernia]

I have real reservations about subsidising a millionaire owner with more donations to the academy, first team or anything else for that matter. As has been pointed out we already pay hundreds every year to support our team.

i have no axe to grind with Ron Gordon but if he wants to be the principal shareholder of our great club then he will have to pay for the privilege, above and beyond what he had already put in, for its upkeep.

asking fans to do it (increasing the value of the club for him to own) doesn’t sit well with me at all. I was delighted to pay into HSL knowing it was getting more shares in the hands of supporters. Now I’m not so sure.

[craigiehibs]

irrespective of ur motives, ie contribution for share ownership or to close the gap on our rivals in terms of revenue for players,thw inescapable fact is that stopping contributions can only be detrimental to our cash flow.

[blackpoolhibs]

We do really need to wait until the club issue a statement on this, and that should be today apparently.

STF wanted out, thats clear. He does not look in the best of health, and will have done checks on Ron. He's turned down bids in the past, and while he wanted off the bus as he said, i'm pretty sure he has the greatest respect and trust in this new owner.

STF wanted to sell, and he was not prepared to wait until such times as we the fans managed to get 51% of the club, and who could blame him, we were hardly knocking the door down to buy these shares.

We apparently have enough shares now to kybosh anything major, but are reliant on Ron to do the good things we all want and take the club forward, just as we were under STF.

A statement over this from the club should clear things up and if HSL carries on in a different mode or not, but we will just have to wait and see, as we do on all things Hibs.

[Arch Stanton]

I have real reservations about subsidising a millionaire owner with more donations to the academy, first team or anything else for that matter. As has been pointed out we already pay hundreds every year to support our team.

i have no axe to grind with Ron Gordon but if he wants to be the principal shareholder of our great club then he will have to pay for the privilege, above and beyond what he had already put in, for its upkeep.

asking fans to do it (increasing the value of the club for him to own) doesn’t sit well with me at all. I was delighted to pay into HSL knowing it was getting more shares in the hands of supporters. Now I’m not so sure.

You can't really think the Hibs will ever turn a profit? :greengrin

However, if you really do then you have the option of not contributing - I will continue my contributions though.

[craigiehibs]

thats where i am. the cash received goes into cash flow however you cut it doesnt it? ill keep paying my 50pm on that basis until im convinced otherwise

[hibbydad]

The bottom line is if Hibs fans had got right behind HSL from the start we would not be in this position. All the rubbish about PONZI schemes and everything else has only done harm to the club

[craigiehibs]

btw i think we are entitled to see detailed minutes from last nights meeting asap dont you..this is wider thsn hsl

[Pagan Hibernia]

You can't really think the Hibs will ever turn a profit? :greengrin



Its not a ridiculous notion at at. None of us knows what lies ahead for Scottish football but I have a feeling there will be more money coming in in the future than there has been recently.

[hibbydad]

btw i think we are entitled to see detailed minutes from last nights meeting asap dont you..this is wider thsn hsl
I agree Craigie Hibs

[Arch Stanton]

The bottom line is if Hibs fans had got right behind HSL from the start we would not be in this position. All the rubbish about PONZI schemes and everything else has only done harm to the club

Totally agree - and we just sat on our bums and criticised HSL. I thought at first it would have mobilised fans but it just didn't happen.

In the end I am relieved that the 51% hasn't come about - it would have been divisive as anything IMO.

[craigiehibs]

I agree Craigie Hibs

thanks..the rank and file deserve to know the plans. we are the ones that go to er and away games thick and thin

[Mikey]

Ah well, here's one fan who would be happy if a separate Fund was established whereby supporters could make financial contributions which would go directly towards a Capital Project like the construction of a full size indoor pitch.

I've never had any interest in share ownership via the HSL scheme and I know I'm not alone.

Me too I reckon. My HSL contribution can just be diverted to it instead.

Will wait and see what's proposed.

[TheHibsClub]

btw i think we are entitled to see detailed minutes from last nights meeting asap dont you..this is wider thsn hsl

The Trustees of The Hibernian Supporters Association were asked to facilitate the meeting last night to give Ron a chance to meet with supporters.

As such we invited branches to put forward three members to attend. 13 branches were represented along with our trustees and four of our honorary presidents.

As HFC planned this is as an informal "meet and greet" we did not minute last night's discussion. Of course, those branches in attendance will be able to update their members as they see fit.

We will be looking to organise further events with Ron over the course of this season and beyond. As per our recent Q&A with Paul and Robbie, full reports of those events will appear on our website.

[MyJo]

The bottom line is if Hibs fans had got right behind HSL from the start we would not be in this position. All the rubbish about PONZI schemes and everything else has only done harm to the club

:agree:

We've had four years to raise enough money to purchase these shares and we didn't do it.

The shares that HSL could have bought to give them a 25% holding have now been sold to Bydand as part of STF's exit from the club.

We now have to hope that the individuals that own roughly 15% of the clubs shares outwith HSL and Bydand are there to protect the club as well.

[Danderhall Hibs]

This might seem a daft question but if “we” hold enough shares to kybosh anything we choose, how come “we” weren’t consulted over the sale?

Presumably that means Big Ron could punt us on to whoever he wants, whenever he wants?

[matty_f]

This might seem a daft question but if “we” hold enough shares to kybosh anything we choose, how come “we” weren’t consulted over the sale?

Presumably that means Big Ron could punt us on to whoever he wants, whenever he wants?
:agree:
His shares are his to do with as he pleases. I think we can stop things like the stadium being sold etc though.

[malcolm]

This might seem a daft question but if “we” hold enough shares to kybosh anything we choose, how come “we” weren’t consulted over the sale?

Presumably that means Big Ron could punt us on to whoever he wants, whenever he wants?

He can sell his shares but he can’t sell Hibs . There is a difference roughly one is about selling what is yours to sell and the other may involve some limits on exercise of voting rights within a company structure.

[craigiehibs]

The Trustees of The Hibernian Supporters Association were asked to facilitate the meeting last night to give Ron a chance to meet with supporters.

As such we invited branches to put forward three members to attend. 13 branches were represented along with our trustees and four of our honorary presidents.

As HFC planned this is as an informal "meet and greet" we did not minute last night's discussion. Of course, those branches in attendance will be able to update their members as they see fit.

We will be looking to organise further events with Ron over the course of this season and beyond. As per our recent Q&A with Paul and Robbie, full reports of those events will appear on our website.

pretty poor stuff really. 39 people plus the "suits". hardly getting the message out?

[Baldy Foghorn]

btw i think we are entitled to see detailed minutes from last nights meeting asap dont you..this is wider thsn hsl

There are no detailed minutes. It was an informal gathering.

[Baldy Foghorn]

pretty poor stuff really. 39 people plus the "suits". hardly getting the message out?

It's ok I recorded it all on my phone and will make a podcast later

[LeithMike]

This might seem a daft question but if “we” hold enough shares to kybosh anything we choose, how come “we” weren’t consulted over the sale?

Presumably that means Big Ron could punt us on to whoever he wants, whenever he wants?It also seems we couldn't stop our shareholding being diluted so who is to say it couldn't be diluted further and take away rights to stop sale of stadium etc. Ideally it would be good for HSL to get to 25% and then get some additional minority shareholder protections including requirement for sale of land and buildings, allotment of new shares, etc.

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[craigiehibs]

It's ok I recorded it all on my phone and will make a podcast later

await with interest brockie

[Baldy Foghorn]

await with interest brockie

I was jesting

[Baldy Foghorn]

It also seems we couldn't stop our shareholding being diluted so who is to say it couldn't be diluted further and take away rights to stop sale of stadium etc. Ideally it would be good for HSL to get to 25% and then get some additional minority shareholder protections including requirement for sale of land and buildings, allotment of new shares, etc.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

Million dollar question is who are behind the nominee holdings?

[craigiehibs]

I was jesting

quite

[Monts]

Million dollar question is who are behind the nominee holdings?

What percentage of shares do they hold?

[Baldy Foghorn]

What percentage of shares do they hold?

Not got that to hand at the moment bernz

[tamig]

No problem re your questions. He was asked directly what his ask of the fans was, his response was that our continued attendance and support, he also stated that the academy would require investment from him and the fans, no ambiguity. Possibly other attendees could provide their perspective, I felt that he was clear on the fact that he is looking for fans to make an additional financial contribution in order to deliver his vision.
So no statement indicating that HSL monies would be earmarked to develop the Academy?

[TheHibsClub]

pretty poor stuff really. 39 people plus the "suits". hardly getting the message out?

It was the fairest way to distribute the invites that we received.

Of course, if there were no "suits" HSA and The Hibs Club wouldn't exist and there would be nobody to organise future events with Ron that will be open to our wider membership.

If you feel this is unsatisfactory you can, as ever, make your feelings known via your branch committee if you are a member of HSA.

[CapitalGreen]

It also seems we couldn't stop our shareholding being diluted so who is to say it couldn't be diluted further and take away rights to stop sale of stadium etc. Ideally it would be good for HSL to get to 25% and then get some additional minority shareholder protections including requirement for sale of land and buildings, allotment of new shares, etc.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

The authorised share capital of the company is defined in the Articles of the Company (currently 2.5m ordinary shares with a nominal value of 2p).

Any change to the Articles is considered a special resolution and therefore requires over 75% shareholder approval. To increase the share capital (dilute current shareholdings), the Articles would need to be amended, therefore 75% of shareholders would need to approve.

The share RG bought recently that diluted everyone’s shareholdings were approved in 2015 at the inception of HSL and the Articles were amended at this time to reflect this. Presumably (I have not checked), HFC holdings held over 75% of shares at this time so the amendment passed.

[FilipinoHibs]

He can sell his shares but he can’t sell Hibs . There is a difference roughly one is about selling what is yours to sell and the other may involve some limits on exercise of voting rights within a company structure.

Think a special resolution and requires 76% of the votes.

[craigiehibs]

It was the fairest way to distribute the invites that we received.

Of course, if there were no "suits" HSA and The Hibs Club wouldn't exist and there would be nobody to organise future events with Ron that will be open to our wider membership.

If you feel this is unsatisfactory you can, as ever, make your feelings known via your branch committee if you are a member of HSA.

i am. wasnt a personal criticism butwsw th

[craigiehibs]

It was the fairest way to distribute the invites that we received.

Of course, if there were no "suits" HSA and The Hibs Club wouldn't exist and there would be nobody to organise future events with Ron that will be open to our wider membership.

If you feel this is unsatisfactory you can, as ever, make your feelings known via your branch committee if you are a member of HSA.

i am. wasnt a personal criticism bum but the point stands. whats wrong with sharing the messages to the wider family??

[MyJo]

It also seems we couldn't stop our shareholding being diluted so who is to say it couldn't be diluted further and take away rights to stop sale of stadium etc. Ideally it would be good for HSL to get to 25% and then get some additional minority shareholder protections including requirement for sale of land and buildings, allotment of new shares, etc.

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Shareholdings can only be diluted through approved share issues.

Ron, on his own, cannot authorise this because he does not own 75% of the shares. Any share issues will need to be approved by other shareholders in the knowledge that approving it will result in the dilution of their shares.

If there is a proposal to issue more shares to Bydand in return for a cash injection to the club that would take their overall holding above 75% I would expect the other shareholders to reject this in the best interests of the club.

[Ginger Gehagan]

Shareholdings can only be diluted through approved share issues.

Ron, on his own, cannot authorise this because he does not own 75% of the shares. Any share issues will need to be approved by other shareholders in the knowledge that approving it will result in the dilution of their shares.

If there is a proposal to issue more shares to Bydand in return for a cash injection to the club that would take their overall holding above 75% I would expect the other shareholders to reject this in the best interests of the club.

That's a relief! Was starting to get a wee bit worried that Ron could just keep issuing shares and buy them himself to dilute the percentage owned by me, and thousands of others whenever he wanted. The fact that this isn't possible is good news for all concerned.

[TheHibsClub]

i am. wasnt a personal criticism bum but the point stands. whats wrong with sharing the messages to the wider family??

Suspect the key point for many people was the topic of this thread.

Obviously it wasn't our event last night. The feedback from those that were there was positive, Ron himself seemed to enjoy the interaction.

As well as planning our own events for members we have also offered the use of The Hibs Club should HFC and Ron want to organise any events for other fan groups/the wider supporter base.

[green day]

Probably sensible to wait for an official update from HSL instead of speculating.

Crazy talk, imo.

'mon the mental speculation

[Danderhall Hibs]

Crazy talk, imo.

'mon the mental speculation

We don’t help ourselves by not communicating - it gives time for tumour to grow into fact, no matter how outrageous. Look at what the Ponzi scheme stuff done to HSL and here we are again allowing folk to add their tuppence in with no official line to be referred back to.

[kevinc]

So no statement indicating that HSL monies would be earmarked to develop the Academy? No statement indicating HSL monies would be earmarked for the Academy. Hi did state that he would not be selling shares to HSL as he is not selling his equity, he also said that he wanted fans to "pony up" for part of the cost of the Academy.

[tamig]

No statement indicating HSL monies would be earmarked for the Academy. Hi did state that he would not be selling shares to HSL as he is not selling his equity, he also said that he wanted fans to "pony up" for part of the cost of the Academy.

Thats fine. Interesting he said he wouldn’t be selling shares to HSL. Maybe he is going to get them over 25% in another way.
Come on HSL - give us that update please.

[1875STEVE]

I imagine I am preachings to the converted here but it seems to me that our broader fan base has missed the bus as far as HSL is concerned. Various excuses, from misplaced distrust of STF, a pantomime like dislike of Rod Petrie and every conceivable made up objection. All the way through to stories of Ponzi scheme, have led to enough objectors to leave us short of the intended target that would have left us safe from aggressive takeover in the future. I firmly believe that STF has done all he can to pass us on to a safe pair of hands but what next?

We as fans have nobody to blame but ourselves. STF made enough new shares available for us to dilute his holding and to own a controlling interest of 51% of our club. But we blew it big style. We failed to come up to the mark. Nobody lives forever and STF quite simply had to move on. The new owner has different ideas on how the fans can contribute. The way I see it is that we can miss a new opportunity to take our club forward in a big way or we can get behind his vision and buy in to HSL for a new and forward looking future.

There is a new bus with a new destination waiting for us to climb aboard. Maybe those of us that can afford that little bit extra a month need to take a bit of a leap of faith and just get on board to see where it takes us. And let’s not forget there are many who do not have any more to give, “we are all Hibs” and we can all still enjoy the ride.

Excellent post.

[Brooster]

The Trustees of The Hibernian Supporters Association were asked to facilitate the meeting last night to give Ron a chance to meet with supporters.

As such we invited branches to put forward three members to attend. 13 branches were represented along with our trustees and four of our honorary presidents.

As HFC planned this is as an informal "meet and greet" we did not minute last night's discussion. Of course, those branches in attendance will be able to update their members as they see fit.

We will be looking to organise further events with Ron over the course of this season and beyond. As per our recent Q&A with Paul and Robbie, full reports of those events will appear on our website.

Thanks for this useful update HC. Our Branch (East Lothian) is one of the largest active branches, we would really welcome the opportunity to be involved in these meetings. Is that something that could be arranged? Thanks HC.

[Lago]

One thing I've learned from this thread is that all the bickering & moaning proves to me that fan ownership of Hibs is a no no from my point of view.

[Wilson]

One thing I've learned from this thread is that all the bickering & moaning proves to me that fan ownership of Hibs is a no no from my point of view.

The fans are the only ones clean in this. They were asked to buy shares and did. The only issue seems to be the dealings of multi millionaires and how it affects the small time investor.

In fact the noise and confusion on this thread is the direct result of the lack of communication over the said dealings of rich men.

I wish people wouldn't take every opportunity to have a dig at the fans. We are not the issue this time.

[Blaster]

The fans are the only ones clean in this. They were asked to buy shares and did. The only issue seems to be the dealings of multi millionaires and how it affects the small time investor.

In fact the noise and confusion on this thread is the direct result of the lack of communication over the said dealings of rich men.

I wish people wouldn't take every opportunity to have a dig at the fans. We are not the issue this time.

I think we need to give the new guy a bit of time though. Barely in the door

[Stuart93]

Still not any sign of any comms from HSL?

[Golden Bear]

I'm 100% confident that both STF & RP will have carried out in depth due diligence tests before sanctioning this transaction. The future of the Club will be in safe hands, there's nothing to suggest that we should be getting our collective knickers in a twist.

The new regime deserves a chance, let's give it one.

[Argylehibby]

I'd like to think that a good way forward would be some kind of rights issue to which HSL (and all shareholders, including Ron) could subscribe. That way each shareholder would have the opportunity to retain their holdings at the same percentage level by putting in more cash. Eg if Ron wanted to put in £2m personally, he could make £3m of shares available via a rights issue. If HSL and the other individual / nominee shareholders stump up £1m the status quo in terms of percentage holdings remains. If not, Ron's ownership percentage increases. Logistically it might be a bit tricky to fund the HSL portion of the subscription through monthly DDs rather than a lump sum payment but I'm sure it must be possible.


This would not assist the ratio in any way.

A rights issue is on a ratio of x new shares to y existing shares. If Ron wanted to put another £2m in and everyone else took up their entitlement then the percentages stay as they are. What is more likely to happen though is that Ron takes up his entitlement in full and only some of the existing shareholders take up theirs thus reducing their share of the issued capital even further. Those entitlements not taken up would then be sold but who to? If HSL members didn't take up their rights then they are unlikely to by the lapsed rights so the likelihood is that the HSL percentage decreases rather than increases.

[Argylehibby]

Think a special resolution and requires 76% of the votes.

It does and would therefore only get through if RG voted for it or didn't vote at all.

[Rocky]

This would not assist the ratio in any way.

A rights issue is on a ratio of x new shares to y existing shares. If Ron wanted to put another £2m in and everyone else took up their entitlement then the percentages stay as they are. What is more likely to happen though is that Ron takes up his entitlement in full and only some of the existing shareholders take up theirs thus reducing their share of the issued capital even further. Those entitlements not taken up would then be sold but who to? If HSL members didn't take up their rights then they are unlikely to by the lapsed rights so the likelihood is that the HSL percentage decreases rather than increases.

You think it's more likely that Ron will put in more money than HSL every year? In that case he'll deserve his increased shareholding percentage and I'll happily strap in for the ride. I personally think it's more likely that Ron won't be contributing funding every year but people will continue to contribute in some form to HSL / manager's fund / whatever and so it would be nice if that were turned into an increased shareholding.

[Pagan Hibernia]

The fans are the only ones clean in this. They were asked to buy shares and did. The only issue seems to be the dealings of multi millionaires and how it affects the small time investor.

In fact the noise and confusion on this thread is the direct result of the lack of communication over the said dealings of rich men.

I wish people wouldn't take every opportunity to have a dig at the fans. We are not the issue this time.

:agree:

[Centre Hawf]

It's 18:10. Have HSL given their update anywhere yet? Don't want to jump to conclusions until I read it.

[superfurryhibby]

The fans are the only ones clean in this. They were asked to buy shares and did. The only issue seems to be the dealings of multi millionaires and how it affects the small time investor.

In fact the noise and confusion on this thread is the direct result of the lack of communication over the said dealings of rich men.

I wish people wouldn't take every opportunity to have a dig at the fans. We are not the issue this time.

Well said.

I bought shares in order to contribute in my own small way to safeguarding the club. Pretty dismayed to hear that the main vehicle for fans to do this, via HSL, has had at a stroke a reasonable % of it’s stakeholding reduced. Would people have been buying into HSL knowing this was probable?

It feels wrong to me. HSL and small individual shareholders now appear to have been somewhat shafted.

[green day]

The fans are the only ones clean in this. They were asked to buy shares and did.

Correct.

This isn't a dig at fans 😁.....but if more of us (and I am in HSL since the beginning) had actually joined and paid a few quid each month instead of looking for multiple reasons not to, we would already be at the "seat on the board" level and much of this chat would be moot.

Having said that, if it turns out that Ron expects me to pay more on top of my ST, occasional hospitality, and monthly HSL dough then he will be whistling for it.

Let's see what HSL say.

[hibbydad]

Correct.

This isn't a dig at fans 😁.....but if more of us (and I am in HSL since the beginning) had actually joined and paid a few quid each month instead of looking for multiple reasons not to, we would already be at the "seat on the board" level and much of this chat would be moot.

Having said that, if it turns out that Ron expects me to pay more on top of my ST, occasional hospitality, and monthly HSL dough then he will be whistling for it.

Let's see what HSL say.
You are right Green Day if only people had supported HSL we would not be in this position

[Argylehibby]

You think it's more likely that Ron will put in more money than HSL every year? In that case he'll deserve his increased shareholding percentage and I'll happily strap in for the ride. I personally think it's more likely that Ron won't be contributing funding every year but people will continue to contribute in some form to HSL / manager's fund / whatever and so it would be nice if that were turned into an increased shareholding.

Not what I was saying Rocky.

The post I replied to referred to a Rights Issue which I don't see achieving anything in terms of increasing the fans percentage of shares in issue.

Until such time as there is a GM to increase the number of shares that can be issued no new shares can be created and allotted to anyone. If a GM is held and the ISC headroom increased then HSL can purchase those shares and increase their percentage but a rights issue wont for the reasons I stated in my post. For a R/I to increase the percentage HSL & private s/holders own then RG would need to not take up his rights and other shareholder need to take up theirs and any the RG was entitled to but didn't take up.

I was not in favour of fans reaching 51% because had we done so then nobody with cash would ever have bought the 49% that was left and invest as RG seems to be doing.

If no shares are made available in the future then HSL will need to amend their T's and c's / articles to enable funds to be collected for another purpose. I don't know how often HSL purchase shares but if they have surplus funds in the bank a/c now and intend to continue to collect funds going forward they need to contact members pdq giving them the option of stopping their payments. (in my opinion anyway)

[lyonhibs]

You are right Green Day if only people had supported HSL we would not be in this position

What "position" are we in, if I may ask? New owner has wiped out our debt, invested a further 7 figure sum and some on here are reacting to the news that he maybe doesn't want his fairly purchased shares being diluted as if that's like him having the club strapped to the kitchen table bollock naked and he's just got the black mamba out of his case of torture instruments.

Nothing is known for sure anyway, HSL update apparently incoming. Can we no gone him a fair crack of the whip first?

[Arch Stanton]

The fans are the only ones clean in this. They were asked to buy shares and did. The only issue seems to be the dealings of multi millionaires and how it affects the small time investor.

In fact the noise and confusion on this thread is the direct result of the lack of communication over the said dealings of rich men.

I wish people wouldn't take every opportunity to have a dig at the fans. We are not the issue this time.

Disagree - it has become obvious that there is not such a thing as 'the fans' - not blaming here, it's just how it is.

And the confusion on this thread is everyone jumping in wanting answers now instead of waiting to see how things pan out. The confusion also indicates that there is not a simple solution here - if one had been found then I'm sure we would have been told.

[BSEJVT]

Pretty reluctant to get involved in conjecture until we know what's what.

But I suppose questions I might have are:

1) STF allowed monies received from HSL share purchase to go to footballing budget rather than buying his shares. How would HSL subscribers feel about buying RG's shares from him (and him receiving cash)? to reach relevant milestones if he were so inclined.

2) IF RG won't sell any of his shareholdings or permit the creation of further shares for HSL to purchase, how would HSL subscribers feel about HSL acquiring (if this was possible) some of the nominee holdings from continuing subscriptions? Nb this is likely to see holders of these nominee holdings make a profit.

I have always had concerns over some of the nominee holdings and if those concerns are justified, the recent transaction make these holdings futile (at least until RG sells up) and they may be prepared to do a deal

[Lago]

The fans are the only ones clean in this. They were asked to buy shares and did. The only issue seems to be the dealings of multi millionaires and how it affects the small time investor.

In fact the noise and confusion on this thread is the direct result of the lack of communication over the said dealings of rich men.

I wish people wouldn't take every opportunity to have a dig at the fans. We are not the issue this time.
I am absolutely sick & tired of some of the stuff I've read on here. It didn't take long for the euphoria over the take over to evaporate. S T F has gone from good guy to charlatan, let's not mention Rod he's beyond the pale. Did people thing Ron was some minted Arab emir in disguise primed to turn Hibs into the Scottish version of Man City ??
Get real people it's Scottish football, give the new folk a chance.:confused:

[Rocky]

Not what I was saying Rocky.

The post I replied to referred to a Rights Issue which I don't see achieving anything in terms of increasing the fans percentage of shares in issue.

Until such time as there is a GM to increase the number of shares that can be issued no new shares can be created and allotted to anyone. If a GM is held and the ISC headroom increased then HSL can purchase those shares and increase their percentage but a rights issue wont for the reasons I stated in my post. For a R/I to increase the percentage HSL & private s/holders own then RG would need to not take up his rights and other shareholder need to take up theirs and any the RG was entitled to but didn't take up.

I was not in favour of fans reaching 51% because had we done so then nobody with cash would ever have bought the 49% that was left and invest as RG seems to be doing.

If no shares are made available in the future then HSL will need to amend their T's and c's / articles to enable funds to be collected for another purpose. I don't know how often HSL purchase shares but if they have surplus funds in the bank a/c now and intend to continue to collect funds going forward they need to contact members pdq giving them the option of stopping their payments. (in my opinion anyway)

To be fair, you took my "some kind of rights issue" comment and turned it into a Rights Issue (your capitals). All I'm talking about is making new shares available every year and whoever chips in to buy them gets an increased shareholding. If HSL come up with £1m every year and Ron chips in nothing then the HSL percentage holding increases. I'm sure this could be structured in a way that would allow relative shareholdings to flex up and down according to the amount of financial contribution made.

[superfurryhibby]

Disagree - it has become obvious that there is not such a thing as 'the fans' - not blaming here, it's just how it is.

And the confusion on this thread is everyone jumping in wanting answers now instead of waiting to see how things pan out. The confusion also indicates that there is not a simple solution here - if one had been found then I'm sure we would have been told.

Is your view that there’s no such thing as “the fans” a bit like Thatchers statement that there’s no such thing as society?

[tamig]

What "position" are we in, if I may ask? New owner has wiped out our debt, invested a further 7 figure sum and some on here are reacting to the news that he maybe doesn't want his fairly purchased shares being diluted as if that's like him having the club strapped to the kitchen table bollock naked and he's just got the black mamba out of his case of torture instruments.

Nothing is known for sure anyway, HSL update apparently incoming. Can we no gone him a fair crack of the whip first?

The position we are in is that no single “friendly” entity holds that 25.1% stake that would be sufficient to block a hostile takeover. We were almost there with HSL but not quite. Jim said there was positive news to come so hopefully we’ll hear something soon.

[Fanforlife]

I've no idea regarding how this will eventually pan out,no different from anyone else at present moment I suppose, however I would be amazed if some form of compromise has not already been drawn up.I refuse to believe that S.T.F would have been party to any sleight of hand in dealing with H.S.L situation and if Ron Gordon's tenure goes the way most Hibbys hope it will then surely the last thing he would want to do is upset fans with a metaphoric slap in the face.As for myself I'm more than happy to keep donating to club,preferably to enhance player pool.

[Arch Stanton]

Is your view that there’s no such thing as “the fans” a bit like Thatchers statement that there’s no such thing as society?

No. It's a bit like having witnessed the fiasco that was the rewards scheme.

[tamig]

I am absolutely sick & tired of some of the stuff I've read on here. It didn't take long for the euphoria over the take over to evaporate. S T F has gone from good guy to charlatan, let's not mention Rod he's beyond the pale. Did people thing Ron was some minted Arab emir in disguise primed to turn Hibs into the Scottish version of Man City ??
Get real people it's Scottish football, give the new folk a chance.:confused:

There has been some guff on the thread but the main concern is around HSL not reaching that key milestone. People are quite rightly asking what now? I don’t see too many having a dig at STF.

[Baldy Foghorn]

No. It's a bit like having witnessed the fiasco that was the rewards scheme.

Rewards scheme?

[Arch Stanton]

Rewards scheme?

Dear oh dear - do you really have no idea what I'm talking about? Even if I can't remember what it was called?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Dear oh dear - do you really have no idea what I'm talking about? Even if I can't remember what it was called?

Quite patronising aren't you?

[Arch Stanton]

Quite patronising aren't you?

Hibs had a rewards scheme , under some name or other, (and remembering things isn't my best subject) and of the many ructions about it was that reward points went to encourage people to sign up to HSL. Hardly fans acting with one voice!

That is my position - in what way is it patronising?

[Hibs90]

Hibs had a rewards scheme , under some name or other, (and remembering things isn't my best subject) and of the many ructions about it was that reward points went to encourage people to sign up to HSL. Hardly fans acting with one voice!

That is my position - in what way is it patronising?

Loyalty points, not really a rewards scheme as such.

[Arch Stanton]

Loyalty points, not really a rewards scheme as such.

Thank you for reminding me and well done for knowing what I meant!

[Lago]

There has been some guff on the thread but the main concern is around HSL not reaching that key milestone. People are quite rightly asking what now? I don’t see too many having a dig at STF.
I do, it's being inferred.

[weecounty hibby]

I'll be interested to see how this pans out, but to be honest I will be happy to continue with my donation every month. As long as Hibs are benefiting that's all I care about. It looks like there are enough shares in "friendly" hands to prevent anything untoward happening now anyway

[HH81]

HSL update is out. Will have a read now.

[Pretty Boy]

As promised, I am writing today to provide an update following the recent acquisition of the majority shareholding in our Club by Bydand Sports LLC (Mr Ron Gordon).

Following on from our earlier note, Members of the Hibernian Supporters Board met Mr Gordon on Monday, which was our earliest opportunity to meet, to welcome his investment in the Club and to hear his plans for the future development of Hibernian. This meeting was very cordial and helpful to both Hibernian Supporters and the new principal shareholder and enabled both parties to understand the history of Hibernian Supporters Ltd, its aims and intentions. Mr Gordon was very positive about the contribution that we have made since our inception and saw that as the single biggest minority shareholding in the Club, we have a role going forward. He reiterated his intention to work positively with fellow shareholders and stakeholders.

Members, and continuing contributors to Hibernian Supporters, will be comforted to know that it purchased shares that were available to buy immediately prior to the transaction between H F C Holdings and Mr Gordon as per our subscription agreement, however, that following the transaction no more shares are available to purchase directly from the Club. Money that has been collected since this time is held within our bank account and has not been transferred to the Club.

The full Board of Hibernian Supporters will meet on Monday, 15th July 2019 to discuss the way ahead and we have agreed to continue our dialogue with Ron and the Club and we anticipate meeting again next week.

Hibernian Supporters has made an important contribution to Hibernian over the last 4 years and can continue to do so to ensure the Club continues its progress and competes at the highest level in football. It has endured negativity, however, it has been clear in its intent to support the Club despite this, and will intend to do so moving forward.

The Club has a new owner who has passion, ambition and a vision for Hibernian’s development in the future. He met with members of Hibernian Supporters Association on Wednesday evening and he talked about his 90 day and 6-month plans that are being developed currently.

Whilst the Board of Hibernian Supporters understand that supporters want clarity instantly, it is important that we carefully consider what we have been told in our meetings with the new owner, take account of what all our members views are and develop our plans properly. The first steps in this process have happened and will continue with our Board meeting on Monday and with the continued discussions with Ron.

It is understandable that change brings with it uncertainty but we should not allow rumour and speculation to fill the temporary void created. One of the things we believe as your Directors we have enjoyed over the past few years is your trust. We have worked hard to earn this and we will continue to progress in accordance with our objectives and our Articles. Can I please once again ask for your patience.

Can I leave you with some simple facts which we believe is positive news for Hibernian Supporters.

Since the announcement last week Hibernian Supporters have increased our Membership, increased our shareholding in the Club as a result of share donations and indeed only today received further pledges of over 250,000 shares in the Club from private shareholders. Can we also help some of our fellow Members and supporters who have been forensically examining shareholdings by confirming that we have received a number of share donations over the years and this will help to explain the very minor discrepancies in calculations that are drawn only from public information.


James Adie
Chairman

[CapitalGreen]

Main thing I took from that is the lack of proof-reading before it was sent.

Second thing was that ‘Hibernian Supporters’ is still a terrible name, hopefully any rebrand/relaunch will include a name change.

[Stuart93]

Just had a read...so the direct debits that will continue to be taken from me will sit in HSL’s bank until it’s decided, hopefully by HSL members and not just the board, what is to be done with it? Fair enough we have to be patient but surely there should be a pause in DD’s until it has been decided where they’ll go?

[CapitalGreen]

I should add, I’m not overly fussed about the shareholding dilution. I have donated to HSL since launch but have no appetite for fan ownership, it was more a means of getting cash into the managers budget. Personally, I’m absolutely delighted at the near £4m cash injection RG has made into the club.

[CapitalGreen]

Just had a read...so the direct debits that will continue to be taken from me will sit in HSL’s bank until it’s decided, hopefully by HSL members and not just the board, what is to be done with it? Fair enough we have to be patient but surely there should be a pause in DD’s until it has been decided where they’ll go?

If you have a DD with HSL you can stop it anytime you want.

[Stuart93]

If you have a DD with HSL you can stop it anytime you want.

That is true

[Baldy Foghorn]

Baldy Foghorn

As you know I was not at the meeting this evening and I am wondering if you perhaps misheard Ron, as this is not correct.

I understand that following last weeks announcement Ron and his family enjoyed the rest of the week in London following a very busy few weeks leading up to the announcement and that is why we were unable to meet until this week.

We will be writing to our Members tomorrow with a very positive update.

In the meantime could I echo Ron's comments and just ask for a little patience and please allow us just a little time to continue our discussions.


Jim Adie

So you met Monday rather than Friday? Great. Your mandate is no longer as it states on websit (to purchase shares).

[BoomtownHibees]

A lot of words without actually saying anything imo

[CapitalGreen]

So you met Monday rather than Friday.

I think that much is obvious, says in the email mate.

[Arch Stanton]

Main thing I took from that is the lack of proof-reading before it was sent.

Second thing was that ‘Hibernian Supporters’ is still a terrible name, hopefully any rebrand/relaunch will include a name change.

You have taken more from it than I did then!

I don't see that anything will come of them talking to RG unless they sort themselves out first. By some sort of membership consultation perhaps - if such a thing is not beyond them. (And I'm sorry but the inertia that is HSL frustrates the hell out of me sometime.)

[Stuart93]

A lot of words without actually saying anything imo

That’s what I thought tbh. No further ahead in how it will be progressing & not as positive as I thought it would’ve been.

I’ll probably keep my DD going purely from the sense that I don’t miss the amount I’m donating

[DaveF]

So you met Monday rather than Friday? Great. Your mandate is no longer as it states on websit (to purchase shares).

ER, I think they probably know that but you keep moaning about it anyway.

[Hibs90]

My take was, that HSL is no longer able to purchase shares from the club and the HSL board are meeting on Monday to discuss what is the best option going forward...

Seems straight forward to me.

[BoomtownHibees]

My take was, that HSL is no longer able to purchase shares from the club and the HSL board are meeting on Monday to discuss what is the best option going forward...

Seems straight forward to me.

Which we already knew based on posts from last night

[Baldy Foghorn]

ER, I think they probably know that but you keep moaning about it anyway.

Moaning, have a word? Ron said they met HSL I picked it up as Friday. I've been called out that, amongst other things.

[Arch Stanton]

My take was, that HSL is no longer able to purchase shares from the club and the HSL board are meeting on Monday to discuss what is the best option going forward...

Seems straight forward to me.

I think we've all known for a while that RG got all the shares that were for sale. Nothing new in other words.

We should have been going forward long before now IMO

[DaveF]

Which we already knew based on posts from last night

I didn't know the HSL board were meeting on Monday until that email.

[Heisenberg]

So you met Monday rather than Friday? Great. Your mandate is no longer as it states on websit (to purchase shares).

I think they are well aware that their mandate has changed. It says as much in the email. Further updates are to be provided after the 15th. As they say, they can’t have all the answers right now but are working with the club/Ron on the next steps.

[Baldy Foghorn]

My take was, that HSL is no longer able to purchase shares from the club and the HSL board are meeting on Monday to discuss what is the best option going forward...

Seems straight forward to me.

My original post stated the mandate had now changed, as confirmed by HS that no more shares are available to purchase.

[DaveF]

Moaning, have a word? Ron said they met HSL I picked it up as Friday. I've been called out that, amongst other things.

I found your reply to Jim reasonably blunt so yes it was a moan. I'm sure you will cope with that comment though.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I think that much is obvious, says in the email mate.

Yes I know

[Baldy Foghorn]

I found your reply to Jim reasonably blunt so yes it was a moan. I'm sure you will cope with that comment though.

Weird.....

[BoomtownHibees]

I didn't know the HSL board were meeting on Monday until that email.

That’s great. 1000 words to tell us that there is a meeting on Monday 👍🏼

[Hibs90]

My original post stated the mandate had now changed, as confirmed by HS that no more shares are available to purchase.

Well then its up to them to update, but a little patience is required until they come to a decision on how to move forward.

[Pretty Boy]

I'm sure HSL have been aware of a potential sale for some time. Whether they knew all the details is another, and key, matter. STF essentially diluted his own shareholding by creating new shares for HSL, and previously others, to buy rather than selling his own shares. Perhaps HSL were hopeful the new owner would offer a similar deal.

Evidently that isn't going to be the case so it seems they need to work out how to go forward from here. I'd be surprised is they don't have some ideas but ultimately it requires the cooperation of RG. There's no point in HSL stating they will do this, that or the other if they don't know they can definitely follow that through.

We have been under new ownership for little more than a week. There are going to be things like this that need to be ironed out and I think all parties deserve more than a few days to do so. When a plan has been agreed between HSL and the club on where they go from here we'll all know about it.

[DaveF]

That’s great. 1000 words to tell us that there is a meeting on Monday 👍🏼

I agree that there wasn't much in it and I'm struggling see where the 'very positive news' is amongst it but it's a wait and see. If expect a much more meaningful update after their board meeting - change in the articles to keep Mr Foghorn happy - so I'm fine to wait a while longer.

[Hibs90]

Maybe HSL will decide to rebrand and start again, then just used as a boost for the transfer kitty. Seems like a good option.

Edit: @HSL, if you need some help with regards to the social media side of things, drop me a PM.

[DaveF]

Weird.....

Not sure what's weird about it. Yer like a dug with a bone on these articles. Give them time to have a meeting and then whinge if nothing changes.

[tamig]

Moaning, have a word? Ron said they met HSL I picked it up as Friday. I've been called out that, amongst other things.

You’re becoming a bit of a pain about all this.

[Pagan Hibernia]

The continuing donation of shares (albeit a tiny fraction of the total) from other parties is, I suppose, a small positive.

[inglisavhibs]

Just had a read...so the direct debits that will continue to be taken from me will sit in HSL’s bank until it’s decided, hopefully by HSL members and not just the board, what is to be done with it? Fair enough we have to be patient but surely there should be a pause in DD’s until it has been decided where they’ll go?
Really?

[flash]

I am absolutely raging about this. Will post again in a wee while when I have thought of a reason why.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Maybe HSL will decide to rebrand and start again, then just used as a boost for the transfer kitty. Seems like a good option.

Edit: @HSL, if you need some help with regards to the social media side of things, drop me a PM.

That sounds like the best option to me

[tamig]

My take was, that HSL is no longer able to purchase shares from the club and the HSL board are meeting on Monday to discuss what is the best option going forward...

Seems straight forward to me.

Aye but it seems a bit of a struggle for some others to get their head round.

[Arch Stanton]

That’s great. 1000 words to tell us that there is a meeting on Monday 👍🏼

Not quite - it also said there might be a second meeting next week. I personally think there could be thousands and thousands more words before this play is played. And poor b*ggers on this thread are wanting clarification now!

[hibbyfraelibby]

I've never subscribed to HSL on principle. I dont agree with out right or even majority fan ownership as I see it as a recipe for disaster in the medium to long term denying the club access to outside investmemt (as opposed to debt) and a governance nightmare with too many opinions with too little authority or responsibility.


HSL was set up to buy shares in the club from STF's shareholding. He doesnt have any now so there is nowt to buy. Get over it.

You want to create a blocking group now then you need to buy from the nominees or participate in any share issue programme on a pound for pound basis.

Hibernian is a business, you are the customers. Always have been and customers dont run companies. Fan of Sainsbury products? Do you buy shares in them?

Those of you who want to try buying shares to influence the future go ahead but your money isnt going into the club. Me I'll continue to buy tickets, merchandise, Happy Hibby etc and donate to fund raising.

Clubs need a strong, financially astute, solvent benevolent major shareholder with a strategy and the wherewithall to deliver it.

[tamig]

I think we've all known for a while that RG got all the shares that were for sale. Nothing new in other words.

We should have been going forward long before now IMO

Jim said Monday was the first opportunity they had to meet the new man. Or were you meaning something else?

[BSEJVT]

Pretty much as expected sadly

Although it would be a complete disaster and would set HSL back years I don’t think they have any option other than to immediately cease collection of further payments and require those that want to to re-subscribe to whatever the new model is going to look like to do so.

Subscriptions held but not invested should be ring fenced and subscribers offered their return if they want it

Many will be happy to continue others will not

If I were on HSL’s board I would be taking legal advice on whether it was possible to do anything other than this as the basis on which contributions were solicited has changed completely.

As a long time advocate of HSL I take no pleasure in the above but I don’t think legally or morally they have any option

[wallpaperman]

Can I just ask fellow fans to keep paying the DD's at the moment, now is not the time to be quitting.

I appreciate that there are possibly more questions after the HSL statement issued tonight, but we need to keep the faith that whatever happens the money will be used to the benefit of the club one way or another.

I've only been paying for about 18 months and my aim when I started was just to put some extra money into the club, the shares were not at the forefront of my mind, though I understand it's important to many.

Our city neighbours revel in the fact that HSL only has about a quarter of their monthly contributors - let's not give them more ammo to use when they accuse us of being less generous/loyal than they are.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Not sure what's weird about it. Yer like a dug with a bone on these articles. Give them time to have a meeting and then whinge if nothing changes.

Its weird as I mentioned Ron had met them on Friday. Jim quashed that on here, but never mentioned it was Monday. Ron also said meetings plural, as does HS statement. Seems Jim was being remiss in his post.

Yet he wants trust? Interesting both Stephen Dunn and Leeann, on both boards, so this must be a conflict of interest surely.

[Baldy Foghorn]

You’re becoming a bit of a pain about all this.

Ignore me then, don't like insinuation I'm lying. (Or putting my own spin on it)

[BSEJVT]

Its weird as I mentioned Ron had met them on Friday. Jim quashed that on here, but never mentioned it was Monday. Ron also said meetings plural, as does HS statement. Seems Jim was being remiss in his post.

Yet he wants trust? Interesting both Stephen Dunn and Leeann, on both boards, so this must be a conflict of interest surely.

Think you are taking things wAy too literally.

Jim had mentioned being introduced to him previously

Not sure what your anti HSL musings are all about on this thread but they make you look bitter

[tamig]

I'm sure HSL have been aware of a potential sale for some time. Whether they knew all the details is another, and key, matter. STF essentially diluted his own shareholding by creating new shares for HSL, and previously others, to buy rather than selling his own shares. Perhaps HSL were hopeful the new owner would offer a similar deal.

Evidently that isn't going to be the case so it seems they need to work out how to go forward from here. I'd be surprised is they don't have some ideas but ultimately it requires the cooperation of RG. There's no point in HSL stating they will do this, that or the other if they don't know they can definitely follow that through.

We have been under new ownership for little more than a week. There are going to be things like this that need to be ironed out and I think all parties deserve more than a few days to do so. When a plan has been agreed between HSL and the club on where they go from here we'll all know about it.
Try telling Baldy...

[Radium]

I must admit to being completely underwhelmed by the way that HSL have been treated in this.

It is clear that the new majority share holder has cut a strong deal for himself [which is absolutely his right] which prevents a fan block vote coming to fruition. A situation that the outgoing majority shareholder would have been well aware of [given the level of diligence that was done]

The statements are clear, in terms of HSL and updates from meetings with fans - no more shares for HSL through the club. The importance of the shareholding to me was the 25% that many have mentioned and the security that gave fans over the owners to come. I suppose the focus will now fall on the group of shares not held by HSL/ Ron Gordon.

It also seems very clear that nothing has changed in the week since he took over and it might have been nice for him to meet with HSL at an earlier point rather than look for celebrity photo ops.

There seemed to be a real air of positivity building around HSL with the third strip announcement certainly generating interest recently. i hope that Jim and the other directors find a positive way forward and will await further updates.

All in all, at a time when I should be up about the situation, I feel like I am being handed a pint of cold sick. No dread regarding the current owner, just the feeling that the deal has been put together in a way to block the HSL initiative.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Think you are taking things wAy too literally.

Jim had mentioned being introduced to him previously

Not sure what your anti HSL musings are all about on this thread but they make you look bitter

Even though I'm a member haha....Good one

[Baldy Foghorn]

try telling baldy...

yawn

[tamig]

I've never subscribed to HSL on principle. I dont agree with out right or even majority fan ownership as I see it as a recipe for disaster in the medium to long term denying the club access to outside investmemt (as opposed to debt) and a governance nightmare with too many opinions with too little authority or responsibility.


HSL was set up to buy shares in the club from STF's shareholding. He doesnt have any now so there is nowt to buy. Get over it.

You want to create a blocking group now then you need to buy from the nominees or participate in any share issue programme on a pound for pound basis.

Hibernian is a business, you are the customers. Always have been and customers dont run companies. Fan of Sainsbury products? Do you buy shares in them?

Those of you who want to try buying shares to influence the future go ahead but your money isnt going into the club. Me I'll continue to buy tickets, merchandise, Happy Hibby etc and donate to fund raising.

Clubs need a strong, financially astute, solvent benevolent major shareholder with a strategy and the wherewithall to deliver it.

Some of us liked the idea of adding to the playing budget. Was that bad? And a lot of us were happy just to get to the blocking milestone.

[CapitalGreen]

HSL was set up to buy shares in the club from STF's shareholding. He doesnt have any now so there is nowt to buy. Get over it.


Perhaps pedantic but HSL were not buying shares in the club from STF’s shareholding. They were buying newly issued shares in the club, hence why every share purchase diluted the existing shareholding and STF made no money from the HSL purchases.

[tamig]

Can I just ask fellow fans to keep paying the DD's at the moment, now is not the time to be quitting.

I appreciate that there are possibly more questions after the HSL statement issued tonight, but we need to keep the faith that whatever happens the money will be used to the benefit of the club one way or another.

I've only been paying for about 18 months and my aim when I started was just to put some extra money into the club, the shares were not at the forefront of my mind, though I understand it's important to many.

Our city neighbours revel in the fact that HSL only has about a quarter of their monthly contributors - let's not give them more ammo to use when they accuse us of being less generous/loyal than they are.
I will be continuing with my payments bud. I’m sure plenty more of us will also.

[BSEJVT]

Even though I'm a member haha....Good one

So what?

You can be a member of something and still be unduly negative about it.

Golf clubs for one example are full of such folk.

You have been like a dog with a bone over this and insinuated amongst other things treachery and deception.

Maybe calm down and see what the future holds?

[Arch Stanton]

I don't like to but I have to say this, LD is the one person who could have short circuited this whole debacle before it happened (i.e. when RG negotiations first started, I mean).

It should have been obvious from the start that HSL was going to be a thorny problem and that laying down some sensible basic principles (of which there have been a fair few on this thread) all this angst would have been avoided.

As thing stands, ill feeling is currently brewing between the fans and RG and it was never necessary.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Some of us liked the idea of adding to the playing budget. Was that bad? And a lot of us were happy just to get to the blocking milestone.

It was your choice to do it that way not a requirement. As for the blocking milestone yoh already have that if you work with the mysterious nominee shareholdings ( wanna bet STF and RP have fingers indirectly in those pies?)

[tamig]

Ignore me then, don't like insinuation I'm lying. (Or putting my own spin on it)

I think you’re being quite silly with some of your comments tbh. And disrespectful.

[Baldy Foghorn]

So what?

You can be a member of something and still be unduly negative about it.

Golf clubs for one example are full of such folk.

You have been like a dog with a bone over this and insuated amongst other things treachery and deception.

Maybe calm down and see what the future holds?

I'm calm thanks, and who knows what the future holds.

[DaveF]

Its weird as I mentioned Ron had met them on Friday. Jim quashed that on here, but never mentioned it was Monday. Ron also said meetings plural, as does HS statement. Seems Jim was being remiss in his post.

Yet he wants trust? Interesting both Stephen Dunn and Leeann, on both boards, so this must be a conflict of interest surely.

Did Jim have to tell you it was Monday? Maybe he was sworn to secrecy. Or forgot.

Maybe the plural meetings were the Monday one and then next one lined up?

Maybe you are just looking to nitpick for the hell of it?

You don't trust Jim yet you contribute to HSL?

Now that is weird.

[Hibs4185]

Could HSL continue to take DD’s and build up a substantial pot so if/when there is a share issue, it can maintain its shareholding.

It may also force Ron to pump money into a share issue as he would have to do so in order to maintain his shareholding.

I think by HSL having a war chest, this ensures that their shareholding can never be diluted further.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I think you’re being quite silly with some of your comments tbh. And disrespectful.

Likewise, now please pop me on ignore, there's a decent chap

[DaveF]

Some of us liked the idea of adding to the playing budget. Was that bad? And a lot of us were happy just to get to the blocking milestone.

Agree. I struggle with the idea that people find criticism of those who are willing and able to contribute just that little bit more to the club.

[tamig]

I don't like to but I have to say this, LD is the one person who could have short circuited this whole debacle before it happened (i.e. when RG negotiations first started, I mean).

It should have been obvious from the start that HSL was going to be a thorny problem and that laying down some sensible basic principles (of which there have been a fair few on this thread) all this angst would have been avoided.

As thing stands, ill feeling is currently brewing between the fans and RG and it was never necessary.

Someone mentioned a NDA elsewhere and thats probably a fair point. It does bring into question her ongoing involvement as an HSL board member though.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Did Jim have to tell you it was Monday? Maybe he was sworn to secrecy. Or forgot.

Maybe the plural meetings were the Monday one and then next one lined up?

Maybe you are just looking to nitpick for the hell of it?

You don't trust Jim yet you contribute to HSL?

Now that is weird.

I'm going to be polite, but you are really something else

[CapitalGreen]

I must admit to being completely underwhelmed by the way that HSL have been treated in this.

It is clear that the new majority share holder has cut a strong deal for himself [which is absolutely his right] which prevents a fan block vote coming to fruition. A situation that the outgoing majority shareholder would have been well aware of [given the level of diligence that was done]

The statements are clear, in terms of HSL and updates from meetings with fans - no more shares for HSL through the club. The importance of the shareholding to me was the 25% that many have mentioned and the security that gave fans over the owners to come. I suppose the focus will now fall on the group of shares not held by HSL/ Ron Gordon.

It also seems very clear that nothing has changed in the week since he took over and it might have been nice for him to meet with HSL at an earlier point rather than look for celebrity photo ops.

There seemed to be a real air of positivity building around HSL with the third strip announcement certainly generating interest recently. i hope that Jim and the other directors find a positive way forward and will await further updates.

All in all, at a time when I should be up about the situation, I feel like I am being handed a pint of cold sick. No dread regarding the current owner, just the feeling that the deal has been put together in a way to block the HSL initiative.

HSL was going nowhere fast, hence the increasing measures they were trying to get people to donate, prize draws, strips etc. The reality of the situation is that there is just no real appetite for for a fan lead ownership scheme amongst the Hibs support. HSL has been in existence for nearly 4 and a half years and it generates a fraction of the income our neighbours scheme does.

RG injected nearly £4m into the club last week, making over £1m available straight away to use as we please plus clearing our debt which will uplift our budget by £0.5m per year. I’ll take that over 6 more years of debt repayments and zero prospect of cash injections under fan ownership.

[tamig]

It was your choice to do it that way not a requirement. As for the blocking milestone yoh already have that if you work with the mysterious nominee shareholdings ( wanna bet STF and RP have fingers indirectly in those pies?)

That was why I backed HSL. If more folk had backed it we could have been at that magic milestone without having to worry about the faceless nominees or trying to round up the individual shareholders to join up with the gang.

[DaveF]

I'm going to be polite, but you are really something else

Crack on, I don't mind.

I'm plenty of things but I'm not , as far as I can see, making an arse of myself on this thread like you are.

Yet.

[BSEJVT]

I'm calm thanks, and who knows what the future holds.

You postings on this thread are anything but calm and what’s the point of agitating about something that you concede we know nothing of.

There may well come a time to be agitated but isn’t now a bit premature to be seeing mistruths in every comment and bogeymen at every turn?

[Arch Stanton]

Someone mentioned a NDA elsewhere and thats probably a fair point. It does bring into question her ongoing involvement as an HSL board member though.

Indeed - if there really were Chinese walls then she should really have stayed clear of HSL.

However, in this case, surely someone else at the club should have spotted the possible problem and shortcircuited it. IMO of course.

[Billy Whizz]

So we still get our signed strip

[tamig]

Likewise, now please pop me on ignore, there's a decent chap

Lol.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Crack on, I don't mind.

I'm plenty of things but I'm not , as far as I can see, making an arse of myself on this thread like you are.

Yet.

Making an arse of myself? Suppose you would have to read the responses here on that I was putting spin on things, on the PM.

I'm passionate, if it means people don't like me, couldn't care less. You and others no nothing about me....